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Hi again 🙂
Yes, you can throw sooner 🙂 But starting further back (like you did at :25ish) will help give you time to start moving and throw all before she reaches the jump. She isn’t looking back at you and is driving ahead and that is exactly what we are looking for!
Something REALLY cool happened on rep 3, though (:13) – she wasn’t really facing the jump, you said GO! and she immediately turned and took the jump straight. YESSSSSSS! She is beginning to show understanding of the verbal!! Woot!
Does she have a harness, or does she feel fine when you hold her collar? We can add another layer: holding her by a harness or collar, you can hold her and start the GO Go Go cue… and when she is pumped up, you can THEN let go and keep saying GO! to help her really accelerate ahead of you 🙂 If you use a harness, just make sure it is one that does not restrict her shoulders from moving. If she HATES being held like that, don’t do it LOL! but you can have your hand on her chest and see if you can hold her longer as you start the go cue.
Nice work on all of these! Well done!
TracyHi there!
The mini pinny is going well! Good job adding the verbals! You can keep it close together for now, with the 2 outer jump moved in a little closer to the middle jump, with the goal being that she bounces between the bars rather than take a stride. She is pretty small (and CUTE lol) so the outer jumps might end up being pretty close, maybe 3 feet distance between the centers of each bar. This will work both the verbals and the bending jump grid.
The only other tweak now is to reward back at you after jump 3 to encourage her to continue to bend over jump 3 as you add the verbals (rather than throwing the reward straight).Nice work!
TracyGood morning!
Great job lining her up, that will be useful at trials too!
I like what she is doing here with the food bowl as the target – LOVELY rounded form, nice low head, super fast. She is only about 9 months old here, so it is a bit too early to add more height to the bar. So, keeping the bar low, you can add a bit of motion. Lead out in a walk like you did here,, and release when you are halfway between the jump and the bowl, then keep walking forward. If that goes well, you can release when you are passing the jump. The bowl is out there the whole time as the target. The goal is to encourage her to maintain her form while we add motion. If that is easy, over the course of several sessions, you can build to jogging after the release!
TracyGood morning!
>> As you know, that is NOT the typical way agility people do things (most drill daily or multiple times a day) but I want to do right by my dog
I model my views after 2 things:
* what produces long-term soundness, drive, and understanding in agility (DEFINITELY not drilling or daily agility or multiple sessions a day!)
* what top level athletes in other sports do to create brilliance (there is a significant amount of cross training and rest built in – Olympic medalists and pro athletes most definitely do not drill their sport every day)So, in agility, just because we want to or because the dogs would accept it, doesn’t mean we should work and work the dogs in agility.
>>How often do you do set point or is that something that once the dog shows understanding you don’t need to to it anymore?
Early on, I will revisit it every time I want to add challenge in terms of jump height. So maybe once a week or once every 2 weeks with dogs learning to bring bars up to full height, or as a warm up every few days when I am in the process of adding height to the bars. But I really do limit the amount of jumping the dogs do. With adult dogs that are theoretically “trained”, I might whip it out every now and then as a conditioning game and reminder tool.
>>For the video on set point where you want his head lower – I was out of the video frame standing stationary and facing forward looking back at him. Manners minder was much further out per previous instruction. I will try it with me kneeling down and send another video to see if that looks better to you. >>
I don’t think there was anything wrong with your set up, per se… I just think he wants to look up at you so we need to get his head a little lower 🙂
>>On a side note, how do you teach weaves for dogs built upright to encourage head low? Someone told me they wouldn’t do 2 x 2s for that reason…I’ve never done 2 x 2 method but the instructor I have now for pre-novice uses them. Just curious.>>
Any weave method will work, if the handler has good timing and placement of reinforcement. I taught my dogs 2x2s for about 15 years, it worked fine with all of the different structures (Dalmatians, terriers, Papillons, Border Collie-ish) because I obsessed on timing and placement of reinforcement. With Hot Sauce (terrier mix), I used channels and a Manners Minder because I was in the mood for a difference challenge and it has been a blast! Highly recommend!
>>For wing wrap to “GO”, I was saying “go” the whole time…LOL…can’t get those darn verbals right. So next time I try it, I will say “tight” and then “go”.
Ha! Darned words! We all do that – start yelling GO when we really should be cuing a turn LOL!!! Same here! Oopsie!
>>Ah lumping…yes I tend to try to do the whole assignment so I can get feedback and then repeat the training with the suggestions for improvement. So I will go back to the tight mini pinny in a day or two.
The way this class is structured, there are usually multiple layers to each assignment, for several reasons:
– to allow the handler to see where it is going
– to give more experienced pups the next steps
– to be able to cover more in the class 🙂So, if a game is new, start with the first layer or two then get feedback, then build to the next layer, and so on. For example, today’s game has several layers but you can split them out over several days of work.
Stay well!! Talk to you soon!
Tracy
Good morning!
First, some answers for ya!>>I did the set point at the end of our entire training session. What is your theory on bend work? Should we always do something like set point or straight line work to rebalance the dog afterward?>>
No, there is neither science nor anecdote to support that – it is just superstition LOL! All training should be balanced, as in don’t spend a week only doing left turns. But I think people overwork the dogs by feeling they must end on straight line work after bending. Quality and low number of reps is important.
>>Also, is the distance you set the dog up for set point work the same distance you should set the dog up at the start line for consistency?
Nope – I would never set my dog up that close on a start line, because I want a different behavior on the jump at the start line (I want a lot more speed). The set point is just a learning set up, not meant to simulate a start jump. I tend to set my dogs up a solid 15 feet away from that first jump where possible.
>>As we add more and more games, do you suggest we have some sort of schedule of games to combine the new with the older ones or just focus on the games for each week to strengthen that particular skill set for the week. I’m thinking about what you said on repetition so we wouldn’t be doing the bend work every day right? Then separating those days with other types of games might be a good plan?
The games presented here will generally build on ach other, so you can work through the games as presented (rather than keep repeating the earlier games). I do not jump my young dogs two days in a row, ever, even on low bars. I don’t do handling 2 days in a row, even with flatwork. It is partially to keep them sound, partially for latent learning, partially to keep them balanced in life, partially to teach me to have some human impulse control LOL! Some days I don’t do any formal training. If the young dog has done jump work such as bending, I spend the next day or two doing something else – tricks or contacts or just long walks. So, every other day at the most for jumping work of any kind, even if it is different jumping work. My rule for myself with the young dogs is that if a wing or bar is involved, every other day at most.
On the videos:
1st video (set point on 6 & 8 oxer): I think the set up in terms of distances/etc is really good! I would like his head a little lower. Poodle structure in the front end means we want to do a lot of convincing of looking downwards 🙂 I couldn’t see where you were in the video, so you can tweak it by kneeling next to the target rather than standing (I do that for my terriers & papillons who also need to be encouraged to look downwards.2nd video: Go! Oooh he liked it when you started the verbal while holding him – body tensed for exploding up the line and he also looked at the jump. Then he smoked you and didn’t look back. That is exactly what we want. Nice!
3rd video – wing to Go! What were you saying on the wing? That would be a wrap cue then the go cue starts as he rounds the wing. The only other idea for you here is to connect to his eyes more as you move ahead – that will help him drive past you because it supports the line by turning your shoulders to it more. Nice job with your toy throws here and in the previous video – good placement helps him learn it faster!
Mini pinny 1:
It took him a couple of reps to sort himself out, but he did and ended up both striding it nicely AND bending really well. We want him turning his head and bending nice and close to the inner wing, which he was doing by the end of the clip. The measurements on this set up worked nicely for him!
2nd video: I think you are lumping a little bit LOL! These might be too far apart for session 2, I would keep them all in a little closer for now so you don’t have to move and so you don’t lose the bending – he was striding pretty straight over the bars and not really bending near the inner wings. And on the rewards, because the verbal should produce an additional turn to that direction, you can reward either from your hand or on the land back towards you after jump 3. But, keep it a little tighter and more compact for now to reatin the bending element of it.Nice work, let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Mini pinny – It is a little tight for her, but it was fine to start to get her bending. You can spread it out in future sessions 🙂 She wasn’t thinking about bending on that first rep and was a little surprised when there was no jump in front of her. She thought about it nicely on the next reps! Add in the left-right verbals (I couldn’t hear if you were saying them), she is ready for them to be put on as the cues 🙂
On the go sessions – going well here too! You can throw sooner, both on one jump and after the wing wrap – throw it as she is looking at the jump, so the toy lands before she takes off. The throws were late so she was looking back at you over the bar. And you can move the wing even further away, so she has more space to drive ahead… which will make your life much easier in terms of reward throwing because you will have more time 🙂
Nice work!
TGood morning!
The set point definitely went better, she had a smooth pretty form and seemed to be looking down at her target. She took off in the wrong spot on the dropped bar rep, she was trying to power through it, no big deal. She just didn’t put her hind end in the right spot. The question is… did you do another rep after it? That is important to help her sort it out or let us know if we need to change anything.On the targeting – you should be full in front of her at this stage, with the treats ready – leave the target hand in position then plop the cookies into it (either dropped from above or the cookie hand moves (not the target hand) – she was moving because the target hand was moving. The other tweak here is to have her start with all 4 feet on the plank so she moves into the 2o2o to target (not already be there). The plank might be a little steep for that on this set up, so you can start with less of an angle to help her out.
Nice work! Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
The set up where you walk him forward between your feet is ADORABLE 🙂 Love that!! Great trick for lining up!
He did a great job here and your set up/position looks good. The only thing I would tweak is getting the toy (or treat target) on the ground before you release him, so he perform the set point looking down at it. He is looking up at you, so his head position is a little high and we aren’t getting the curve through his back. It is also a good stay challenge 🙂 So you can lead out, put the target (toy or treats) down, then release. You can kneel by the target or you can stand up again – it really depends on if the target causes him to look at it (or up at you). Try that an let me know how it goes, because we can then begin to add in motion 🙂
Nice work!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well with the mini pinny! You can put the left and right verbals on a lot sooner (before you expand the pinny) to help with the commitment to that middle jump. And since the middle jump is hard, toss the toy out past it heading towards it (so the reward lands between 2 and 3 and not back at you). I would squish the pinny back up to slap on the left & right verbals on the easier pinny – he was a little hesitant with it at the end (hard to tell why, exactly, could have been the cookie container was not as stimulating, or he was still worried about whatever worried him, or, dunno. Dogs! They keep us on our toes. Something must have hurt when he shook the toy… is he still teething? Or maybe it whacked him in the head? Or he has a sore neck? So hard to tell! Give him a day or two off from tugging/training/wrestling etc and see how he feels. Poor guy!!T
Good morning!
He is looking good on the go! Getting focus forward is fine here – I find that focus forward develops pretty naturally anyway with this. What I do suggest is that you don’t use “ready” (I think that is what you were saying) as the cue, you should use “go go go” as the cue by holding him, starting your GO cue and THEN letting him go 🙂 It creates Go as the cue for focusing ahead on the line. When using focus forward on the start line, I use a different set of cues (not ‘ready’) but also, focusing forward on the line develops very naturally 🙂
When you have more room outdoors, you can add more distance to get better lines and to throw the reward sooner. The toy ideally lands before he takes off, so he carries on straight and doesn’t curl into you at all.
On the cone to the go – start your go much sooner so he doesn’t hesitate or look at you as he finishes the cone. Also, say it a few times (go go go) – it isn’t super important when the jump is this close, but it creates a good habit for you to repeat it to support the lines as they get bigger and bigger.>>I have a question on set point jump height. We’ve been doing young dog sequencing at 8 inches for a couple of months now. Should I set the oxer jump at 6″ and 8″ for the 2 bars? When I did the video, I think they were at 4″ and 6″. I am hoping he is going to measure into the 12″ class ultimately.
Yes, I think you can go to 6 and 8 on the set point for now. He is 15 months old and looks ready for the bars to start inching their way up 🙂
Tracy
That is so interesting! Did you get any of it on video? I agree that it was probably the dark color of the tunnel plus those new tunnels smell different (and they have a greasy substance in them – as I found out when Voodoo had a giant crash last time he was there 🙁 even though the owners have cleaned them by now, they probably still have the smell).
Plus, it was a new place and he is a baby dog 🙂 You can shorten then tunnels up in new places and he will quickly learn to generalize the tunnel love 🙂
And yay for good jump commitment! That is generally harder to train so if it is stronger for now, that is a good thing 🙂
Tracy
Good job on the bending! He didn’t seem to have any struggles with his body, yay! Start him closer like you did on the last rep, so he has to power in with his hind end from a standstill… much harder to get his butt under him for that 🙂 You can raise the bars a little! More coming soon today to build on this 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi there!
She was a good girl here, like usual! I like the set point set up here. She is stepping into it really nicely but isn’t yet powering over it with her hind end by pushing off (she is carrying it a bit more than pushing with it). She seems to power over the jump on the Go games, so my thinking here is that the MM is causing her to sit back and collect too soon, even though it is pretty far away. So, try this with the toy! I think that she has the stay and self-control for that, so you can place the toy maybe 15 feet past the jump and see if it gets her to power.
And you can also add some motion – walking. Lead out and walk towards the target, when you are halfway between the jump and target, release her. And if that goes well, you can release sooner and sooner (but stay at a walk). We are looking for her to maintain her form and not go wild LOL! I think she will be fine with it : )Go: nice commitment on her go lines here! You can throw sooner – try to throw so early that is it landing as she is taking off (she moves fast, you’ll have to throw pretty early LOL!). The goal is that she doesn’t look back at you at all. It was hard to see where you were looking as you were moving towards the jump (remember to look at her) but she was doing a great job of looking at the jump til she was jumping and there was nothing else to look at 🙂
Nice work!!
Tracy
