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Hi!
>>Then I turned my brain on and remembered I knew how to shape.>>
I feel this! I feel like I have to re-learn all of my skills with each new dog.
He definitely liked the treats and also appeared to think getting on the thing was a little weird at first. Great job with your rewards and then breaking him off for some tugging! Your transition looked lovely into the second round!!!! He offered with even more confidence there, and also on the 3rd little round after the tug break.
His tail is like a barometer, so funny – waggy waggy when he is all like “I GOT THIS” but then still when he is thinking through the moment. Love it!
Also, I am REALLY excited that he went back and forth from the treats to the toy so nicely, right in that space. That is unusual, especially since you had yummy treats. But fabulous!>>For future reference, sliced swiss cheese is very difficult to handle.>>
Yes, it gets greasy LOL!!!
Great job here. The next step would be to see if he would offer hind end. But before you do it on something relatively big, you can see if he will do it on something lower, like maybe just the lid of this container? If he is already doing all 4 feet on that – great! You can see if he offers all 4 on the bigger stuff.
Nice work!
TracyHi! This looked great!! He is so funny – great with the wrap offering and the back-and-forth, but also being 100% sure that he got all the cookies hahaha! Then checking to make sure that you reloaded before he started offering again. And he didn’t seem to have any trouble as the wing got further away. Perfect! I think at the end you had a click where he was looking at you and he was like wait, what? LOL!
So, next steps – you can delay the click til he is all the way around now (I don’t think that will be a problem at all). You can move the wing in closer and stand up, dropping the cookies into the bowl (moving it in closer because standing up *might* be a big change and we don’t want 2 challenges yet just one challenge/change). If standing up is easy peasy… move the wing back out away. Keep me posted on how he does, because we can move really quickly through a lot of steps here, he is very much like a sponge 🙂
>> Should I just keep adding to the bottom of the thread, or should I reply to specific responses you provide so that specific feedback stays with specific games?
I think bottom of the thread is easier to find over time than within sub-threads. But you can use the blank rectangle right below the box you type in to tag each post so that you can sort them by tags when you want all of the topics together.
Great job here!
TracyHi! This was a really fabulous session!!!!! All of your mechanics looked great, you kept a high rate of success, you smoothly switched to the cone… and she did not bat an eyelash as the upright got further away or when you did the cone. Perfect! Exactly what we want. Woohoo! And the stool looked pretty comfy 🙂
So… next steps: on your next session in a day or two (no need to do this every day). Start right on the cone. Do a short session. If that is all good like this one was, the session after that can start with you on the stool and the cone – but in that session, add in standing up and dropping the treats into the bowls. I don’t think that will be a problem for her at all. Keep me posted, because we can keep adding the next steps if it goes as nicely as this did.
Great job!
TracyHa! Yes, ‘easy money’ is correct LOL!!! As it should be 🙂
Before you go to standing, 2 little details: One thing is to use both hands to reward him (not just your right hand crossing over). You’ll have cookies in both hands and that way the hand next to the bowl is the one that drops the treat in – it will help up when we add countermotion work and the next level of the game.
Also, delay the click now, every so slightly, so he is fully around the wing and almost at the bowl. Essentially, you are clicking more of the finished behavior. I don’t think that will be a problem at all 🙂Yes, after that – standing, and then after that is moving the wing a little further away.
Then, like a fine steak fresh off the grill… let it rest 🙂 Let his brain cement all that for a couple of days and then we will build on it 🙂
Great job!
Have fun!
TracyHi! Part of the fun of puppy shaping is working on our own mechanics and also solving the puzzle of what will work to get the behavior. 2 ideas for you:
First, without adding backing up into it for now – shape value for getting on the mat. Saliency is a reflection of value, so without it he was unable to figure out that he was supposed to back up onto it. So do a quick session of “get on this thing” with all four feet and then a quick session of “stay on this thing”… and the tomorrow morning we add the next step (cliffhanger!LOL!! It is literally loaded and next in line for Tuesday release LOL!!!) I think we will be able to split things differently to help get the behavior.
Second – this is about the mechanics, and could also be why he was watching your hand a lot: keep your hands completely stationary. The clicker hand was pretty still but the cookie hand was not. You can leave the cookie hand below you and just flick the treats to where the rewards need to be: flick one under you for him to get, then after a click, flick the treat to try to get it between his front feet. If the hand is not moving, he will figure out a way to operantly work the situation to get the treat, without think it has to do with the hand moving. Your delivery hand was going pretty far out, so he might have been locked onto moving with it (as you mentioned)/ Your timing definitely got clearer later on the Cato Board session and he was definitely showing value!! Both of those will help us in the next step.Let me know what you think!!
TracyHi! I think this went well, actually! You had a nIce high rate of reinforcement and you got some good backing up! Yes, she definitely appeared to be hungry 🙂 but she was also focused and thinking about what to do with her body. You took a good amount of toy breaks but she wanted the treat – if that happens, you can try running to a different location (like down a hallway or into a different room) and throwing the toy around so she forgets her cookies for a moment (don’t worry about getting it on camera :))
>>then watched read lesson got set up and this video is night and day. Thank you.
Not cutting the lesson to just the skill, due to I think what happens before and after the “skill” to your trained eye gives the whole picture. Right wrong??>>Yes, I think the full session is very helpful! This one looked good, and adding in toy play further from the food location should help get her back on the toy 🙂 I don’t know what the first session looked like, but you made great adjustments on this one!!
We build on this skill tomorrow with new stuff, which should help her back up even further. So for now, jst see if you can convinve her to play with the toy after eating a cookie or two. For my food driven dogs, I often feed them a small meal and *then* train them – that gets GREAT results 🙂
Nice work! Keep me posted!
TracyOMG this was so funny! The other dog was all like, y’all have fun running, I will be here with my toy chilling out. LOL!! Too cute!
The toy race itself is going well! Try to start with her, with your hand on her collar – hold her til the ball lands then run run run (I am sure you can’t beat her LOL!) – that will help her keep her head down and drive straight to it, rather than go out a little wide. You can also have your videographer hold her so you can get a head start and try to win the race 🙂
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
Working through distractions in the environment is more important then the actual plank games – great job getting her back in the game! You can start by tugging to get her focused then go to the treats on the plank – then release to tug. The tugging adds a high level of engagement, so the distractions of neighbors will fade away. Neighbors are AMAZING at showing up when we don’t want them too. And for the shaping things, you can go to crazy high value treats, so she can’t take her eyes off the game. Regular training treats might not cut it in the distracting places, so you can go to something she might not normally get – chicken breast or steak or hot dogs! Yum!
I think she did well on the plank itself, so it was more a matter of figuring out how to help her ignore all the thing around her. Try the tugging and crazy delicious treats and let me know how it goes 🙂Tracy
Hi there!
Actually, I am really happy with what she is doing here so far! She is being thoughtful about using her hind end (most young dogs just fling themselves around :)) This is off to a good start, you did get a bunch of good reps of backing up and backing up relatively straight! The slight angle is pretty normal for now – you can do two things to help with it:
You can leave the cookie hand lower, at or below her nose level, so she can keep her head low as she moves back. She might have been trying to look up at the cookie hand, which will cause her to turn.
Also, you can throw the treats further back on the straight line so she has to go backwards more to get them – which will encourage her to back up more and straighter.
If you have a long carpet runner, you can use that as a backing up ‘runway’ -she will stay straight by staying on the carpet.But also, one of the games we add tomorrow will help with the straight backing up too – stay tuned LOL!
Nice work!
TracyHi! This looks great! Th upright is pretty far from you and he is zipping back and forth. The donut was not trouble for him – still zipping back and forth. Same with the double donut LOL! Next step on the double donut…. feed from your hand. The bowls can state there as a frame of reference for him or to drop treats in in case he gets stuck – but now when he offers going around the double donuts, you give a cookie from your hand then wait for him to offer going back around the other side. If that goes well for a session or two, you can start to fade the bowls out by just moving them further and further away.
Great job here, we will be able to move this forward very quickly!!!
TracyHi! Fun stuff on all of these!
On the backing up… yes he is a little impatient LOL!! Be careful of what he might be building in to the backing up, in terms of chains: smacking you in the gut, barking, backing up LOL! I found out the hard away that these get build in very easily LOL! So, you can get the ball rolling by not letting him offer that – toss a treat away or have him tugging while you are getting ready or on a station… then drop a cookie between your knees so he comes forward to get it – then he almost HAS to back out, so you have something good to reward with the gut punch or barking LOL!! Then as he is getting the reward for backing up, you drop the next one in between your knees so he doesn’t have time to be impatient 🙂Great mountain goat on the park bench! Fun!!!! What a great opportunity for a young dog to get experience on new things!
The toy game looks really good, his toy drive overall is looking really strong! Favorite toys are constantly shifting around so it is indeed a bit of a guessing game – when one loses that top value status, you can make it crazier – I have found that usually tossing it helps, almost like mini toy races. Then when he goes to chase it, you can reward that but bringing out the toy that was top status at the moment 🙂 That can make for even quicker transitions back and forth 🙂
Great job!!
TracyHi! Good sessions here, and it is great to have a ‘greatest hits’ of the different things you are shaping her to get on. Nice variety of textures, sizes, objects, etc. She felt the need to inspect the first couple by sniffing them and that is fine – you can click that and then toss a treat away for her to get, then click when she comes back, and so on – that way she will get even more confidence for new weird things 🙂 The more experience she had with different items, the less she seemed to feel the need to inspect them before interacting – and that is exactly why we play the goat games 🙂
It looks like you had a lot of toy parties spread out there, and that is great. On the big balance disc, you can see see if she will tug on or near it – it builds up to tugging on wobble boards, which is great for teaching the balance needed on future teeters 🙂 How does she feel about noise? You can start to add a bit of noisy stuff to this now 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! This is looking great! She has the rhythm, and you were able to step away to add more challenge (no change in her behavior when you did that! Yay!). So, you can go to a bigger object to have her wrap around now (like a soft crate or laundry barrel or something) just to begin to generalize it as we move towards wings. Also, you can start and end each session with a bit of tugging to keep her engagement high. If she isn’t so sure about tugging when food is around, you can tug in a different room then run to the wrap area then back to a different area. I think she will like that LOL!!!
As you move to bigger objects, you can also add in dropping the treat rather than bending to place it in the bowl – that will help keep her head nice and low (she was looking at you a tiny bit here). The treats might go bouncing around, but that is fine – she can grab the treat then run back and wrap the thing again 🙂Nice work!!
TracyHi! This is the same link as the plank link, can you repost the backing up link? Looking forward to seeing it, plus we add on to the backing up tomorrow.
>> We had some really good reps (last one, especially), but some were kind of disorganized.>>
Disorganized is fine at his age 🙂 We see the smaller dogs get organized sooner than the bigger dogs, and generally the girls get organized sooner than the boys. So my Elektra (small female) is 9 months old today and she is FAR more organized than 14 month old Contraband (large male)
Tracy
Hi!
>>. I would say we have definitely built value with treats for walking on the plank, which might be why he was so interested when he saw this setup.
I agree, which reminds me of the other thing I was thinking about when watching your video above – intersperse toy play breaks into ALL of your shaping with treats at this stage. What I mean by that is 3 or 4 treats for getting on something, for example, then move off it for some tugging. You might need to move pretty far away to get tugging after food, and use long crazy toys, but it is worth it! You’ll actually get him to be more engaged and he will be less likely to leave to get on things, to get food games started LOL! Plus it teaches the dogs how to self-modulate arousal and balance food & toy play. It is not easy to start but totally worth it in the long run 🙂
He is doing well on the planks! He is really looking like he is thinking about where all of the feet are doing, and I am glad to hear the turning around is going really well today (it was going well on the video too!) This is the type of thing to file into the “Progress Not Perfection” category, because he is really young and still learning gross & fine motor skills, plus every time he masters it , his body grows and changes so he has to master it all over again LOL!!!! So his progress looks great and I am sure when he is full grown, he will be amazingly coordinated. Yay!
Let me know what you think!
TracyThis was his first time seeing them side bv side. I was trying to give him a wider plane for his turning practice.
As you’ll see, he definitely used the full width to make his turns, and to my eye, there was no side preference in this setup. I started with the planks side by side, then separated and had him back on a single plank. These planks are thicker than my travel plank, but they are still lower than the travel plank in its elevated option.
Monday update: We were just out on the phield for free play. For just a minute, I encouraged him to walk on one of the dw planks, and he did a full 360-degree turn to the right without stepping off plank at all, and he came very close to doing it to his left.
