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Good morning!
That is weird that the posts went missing – I had something similar happen over the weekend when I was trying to post lessons, thought they were posted but nope, they were not. Hmmm! I will ask the tech guru to see if anything weird is happening or if 2020 is trying to hang on here.It was really good to see all of these videos and try to sort out his serpentine questions (serps are actually really complex from the dog’s perspective). He was really good with his jumping efforts (those are super hard and yet it seemed effortless for him – yay!!!). So I think his questions came down to 2 things – line of motion and anticipating the back out of the cue based on timing of the upper body. Here are details and ideas:
On the first video – super nice on the first reps where you were walking and smoooooth on the line of motion. At :24 – :26 you got your first accidental backside: it looks like this is casued by a combination of the upper body serp cue happening as he is approaching the serp jump, and then your line of motion pushing back in to the next jump (which does look like a backside push). Subtle, yes, but Kaladin reads subtle 🙂 Then I think he was guessing/anticipating – it is probably physically easier to go to the backside of the jump by making the changes on the flat than it is to find the front side of the jump at that angle and make the lead changes on approach to the jump.
The other element that I think was contributing: the upper body serp rotation (arm back, chest facing the bar) can come sooner and then not move, so he is seeing it long before the jump – by showing it to him a little later, he is seeing the come in cue a little late which then causes him to anticipate the back out element, leading to the backside. Even with the jumps angled I think you were feeling that he was considering more “back out” than we need.
You can see this on the flat angles of the serp jumps where serp was jump 2 – the cue was in place sooner and you didn’t pull in as much or push back out and they look really strong!!
On the 2nd video – (tunnel – jump – jump) – this is where I see more of the itming of the upper body contributing to him added extra go-back-out: As he approached the jump after the tunnel you were opening up, so it is possible he was reading that cue as an anticipation/wind up for being pushed out. So switch the timing a little: as soon as he is in the tunnel, get your serp arm back to a comfortable posture and then run up the line without moving in or out (upper body frozen while feet move) so he sees the come-in sooner and doesn’t anticipate it as being paired with the go-back-out. And that way you won’t have to change your line to exaggerate the arm back.
For now, leave the angles of the jumps pretty open so it is really really hard to find the backside, and then you can stay in a fast steady motion – then angle the first jump after the tunnel closed… then we can angle the 2nd jump after the tunnel closed.
3rd video – I can see that anticipation here too, with the cue happening on approach to the serp jump so he is pushing back out – on the angled lines he is not finding a backside but I think I see what you were feeling about him pushing away. That is causing you to work harder than needed to get him all the way in and not anticipating the back out to the other side.
Nice job working the timing of the verbals on the tunnel exit – you were a little late on the left cue at :54 but that is also a wicked hard serp angle – you worked it a bit sooner and dang – it was stunning at 1:07!!! Look at that exit and how he drove in for the serpentine!!!! That was a happy dance moment for sure.
So for now, keep the serp jumps angled so you can run the lines nice and close to the jumps (about an arm’s length away) and the backsides will be hard to find – that way you can have your serp arm back sooner and that can help him to not read it in a way that anticipates the back-out element, and then you can stay nice and close without having to change speed or open up more. A happy cycle!! Let me know if that makes sense!
Nice work!
TracyHi Joni! This was also a really lovely session!!!! You were great about sending, being patient, and then smooooothly moving away when she was reaching the stick. Super!!!!! My only suggestion is the same as above – no need to support as much with the send arm, don’t let it curl across you. Just send and then let it drop. You can definitely start leaving sooner and sooner now, she is rocking this. Question: have you decided what you want your wrap verbals to be? You can start using them (you were saying go, which is probably what you say to cue extension, so we want to add the wrap tight turn verbals in). Do you have a wrap verbal for Jedi? Let me know and then we will add them in.
Great job!
TracyHi! This is going really nicely!!! Was the barrel/trash can a new object to go around? She did a great job committing.
>>sometimes she seems a little wide at the beginning of the turn. But then she comes in tighter when chasing me/toy. Should she be tighter? Maybe not. >>
I think she was looking around a little bit – the environment is still relatively new, the game is new, there was other stuff visible and dogs were barking in the distance. So I am not worried about tightening it up at all, she will get it really nicely. Yuo were just about perfect on all of your patience in letting her come all the way around the barrel, I think there was only one time at you left too early (:50). One suggestion is that you can use your dog-side arm to send, but then you can relax it, no need to support her line with it by twisting it across you. That will help her commit even more independently because you will working up to leaving before she even gets to the barrel 🙂
>>Oh and sometimes I use my outside arm and sometimes the dog side arm. Probably good to just get used to both>>
For now, try to convince yourself to use the outside arm to reward, the connection looked fantastic when you did that and she really drove the line. By doing that now in the early stages, it becomes less important in the future and then you can connection with whichever arm you like 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi Dixie, great to see you here!!!
>>Auditor but thought I would start my own thread and ask questions here. Is that ok?
Yes, it is perfect 🙂
>>I have trouble with words sometimes so verbals are challenging for me more than the dogs.
That is something I have heard from lots of folks and also have had trouble with, myself! When I started agility, it was a real badge of honor to run silently… back when I was 20 years younger, 20 years faster and my dogs were much slower LOL! Two things that I have found to help are:
– prioritize the important ones and really focus on those. Otherwise your brain will not be happy!
– practice, practice, practice – using the one or two important ones, say them at every opportunity on course until they are second nature. So in my walk throughs at home, classes, seminars, and trials, I really focus on making sure I am saying the correct words by saying them during the walk throughs, out loud. I am sure people think I am a weirdo (they are correct haha) but it really really helps me pattern the words for myself.>> Both are Papillon 4 years old and 2 1/2 both on the larger size. (not huge).
I have 2 Paps as well! And a half-Pap haha 🙂 The 2 Paps are on opposite sides of the height spectrum: one is really big (11.5 inches) and the other is really small (8.5 inches). I love the breed – so much sass and personality, they are awesome!
>>We have 24 x 30 heated indoor training room so should be able to do most everything indoors. Looking forward to this class have been in a slump and not doing any training. So joined the class to get me motivated.>>
Perfect!!!! Keep me posted on how they do, feel free to provide updates as often as you like 🙂
TracyHi!
>>should we do a kennel tunnel discrimination or should I use his RC mat?>>Start with the kennel til he gets the idea that something else might happen in the presence of the tunnel, and then we will move it over to the RC mat 🙂
T
Hi! We don’t need all of it at the same time (there will be course builds haha) but you will definitely get more action and have more fun if you can get you your agility field! As long as there is decent internet there, I think that would be great!
TracyGood morning! And welcome!! He is a great age for this and he gives great feedback 🙂 Posting the sessions that are not perfect – that is the MOST helpful thing! Whenever something goes wrong such as losing motivation, I start to jot down rewards versus non-rewards (negative punishment) to look at rate of success: and I think that is what the problem was here particularly in the first session. Yes, there might have been a noise sensitivity factor that contributed but I think you can work through it with an eye on rate of success as well.
Normally I comment on sessions separately when they are posted separately like this, but I think we can look at these together because there were two things in common 🙂
First, the wing or jump is higher value than the tunnel. You’ve probably put a lot more reinforcement on the wing or jump, and he was definitely telling us that when he starting offering the multi-wraps towards the end of the first video LOL! Good boy 🙂
Second – rate of success is critical to him (especially if there are noises in the background). I did a general outline of the first session’s success rate, which includes cued behaviors and offered behaviors that were rewarded or not rewarded (neg punishment). He was at about 35% rate of success, which is a contributing factor to the mental check out. The offered wraps at the beginning where you called him back (no reward) count as negative punishment and can be deflating, so either hold him or sit him as you get ready so you don’t have to tell him he was wrong.
Now compare it to the serp session – he was closer to 80% success, so he was much more engaged. Yay!
Now, looking at the skills: since the tunnel is harder for him, you can help by using more motion for now (then we can fade it later). And for whatever reason, he was much better at the wraps on the first part of the session, maybe the wing was closer on the 2nd part of the session? Hard to tell exactly but definitely do another session and approach it by protecting the rate of success like it is gold or diamonds 🙂 On your next session, help him with more motion. And if he has an error, make it easier (get closer or move more) – we can really pump up the rate of success to over 95%. Then you can get the overall success rate really high, which allows you to challenge him more. So for the next session, don’t let him start offering til you are ready, and get in and help him out if he has an error. And if that goes well, you can return to the 2 failure rule in future sessions as that also protects the rate of success but also adds challenge.
Let me know if that makes sense!!!! Have fun 🙂
TracyGood morning! Things are looking really good here!
Game 1 – I half to admit that I always chuckle at the dog’s optimism when they go through the tunnel incorrectly and then drive in to grab the toy in such a celebratory mood. LOL!! He did really well here – it was not easy for him because if you wart he his head, he was looking straight as he wrapped the wing on both sides (on the first couple of reps) and he then turned after he got to the wing (or decided it was the tunnel). As he got into the game, he started turning his head earlier and earlier. Good boy! Yes, add motion to it – the success rate is high enough to move forward. You might want to do 4 reps of warm up: one wrap and one tunnel on each side without movement to help set up a high rate of success not he first session. Then in future sessions, if all goes well, you can start with motion (no warm up needed).
Serps: The only error was him wanting to serp instead of tunnel early in the session (he was so funny popping back into the tunnel LOL!) but in the grand scheme of thing, that is the best possible error and it only happened once. I say “best possible” because I think that your toolbox of handling skills has layering as pretty far down the list, so if the layering skill is a little weaker than serpentines for now: perfect! You would just need to lean in more like you did to get the tunnel in that scenario. It might have an impact on your tunnel/contact discriminations where he might want to come in closer to you, so we will tackle that separately. The serps looks fabulous, I like how he is making both turns on the serps. Yes… next session add movement 🙂 Yay!
Contact/tunnel – I think this is the hardest of the games because it is 100% verbal with zero handler help in terms of position or motion. VERY difficult! Being at 82% is fabulous and you are moving the right direction! Two ideas for you (they are linked):
You can start saying the verbal cue before he chooses one to look at, then let him go when he is looking at the right one. Right now he is looking back and forth and when he visually lands on one, you are attached the cue and letting him go. We will fade out releasing when he is looking at the correct one pretty soon so he doesn’t think it is look at one then go to it, as that might weaken the verbal.
And, try different tones for your different obstacle here, emulating what you might do on course. For example, my tunnel verbal is pretty loud and repeated. And my a-frame verbal is a lot quieter and not repeated as much. So you can try different verbal ‘energies’ and see if that helps. It would be something like TUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNEL versus craaaayte-craaaaayte-craaaaayte. But again, 82% on pure verbal is GREAT so far!!!!!Great job!
TracyHello and welcome!!!! Have fun with these games and let me know if you need creative ideas to fit them into your space 🙂
TracyHellooooo and welcome! This will be great for her – we started these games with the MaxPup generation just after her cohort 🙂 It is a perfect winter thing for her! Have fun and stay warm!
TracyWow Joni, she did a great job here! I agree – the foundation is paying off really well 🙂 She was not tooooo distracted by the barking. And you can give her a brain warm up with tugging before you start with treats, so she is a little more focused. But overall, she was terrific on her wraps here without the bowls and in BOTH directions. HAPPY DANCE!!!! The next session should be introducing the turn and burn, I think she will love that 🙂 Great job here, I am excited that she was so fabulous in a new location!!
Tracyhi! Sorry for any confusion!
>>I need to be able to SEND….her to the bag on these.
Yes! She leaves you to go to the bag… but only after you tell her to go with the send cues. She was sending herself in this video LOL!
>am I supposed to have a verbal for the bag? Or just ready, ready…get it or something?
You can have a silly verbal or a noise for now, but nothing you will use on course over jumps. I use sill stuff like “ready ready WHEEE!” haha 🙂
Hi! He did an awesome job here, he is a shaping maniac LOL! The box and the mat both looked good. For the running contacts mat versus a Control Unleashed mat… I use more of a dog bed with sides for the relaxation stuff, and a towel or yoga mat for the running contacts. The dogs are fine with knowing the difference.
Because the value building sessions went so well, for your next session you are not allowed to move 🙂 You should stand completely still at all times (it is a great lazy game for us humans :)) so that he looks at the box or mat and not at you, which includes initiated moving towards it. You can start perpendicular to it, then change angles or let him go forward to it, moving away from you then coming back to you. The placement of reward will get him out of the box to initiate the next rep, without you having to move. We add handler movement a bit later down the road and in a different context after he knows how to leave you in the dust for it 🙂
Great job here! Training running contacts will be FUN!
Tracy
