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Hi! Thank you for the update!!!
>>I really like the “Backside Wing Brake Hand”. I tried it out today and was surprised to see a much better approach to the backside.
I think that it helps the dogs see the difference between a wrap and a slice. Also, I added a bit more on the backside circle wraps to the skills sets I posted on Monday. Backside circle wraps are HARD jumping efforts!
>> Juno has a pretty nice “wrap” but has a tendency to go out too much for my liking on the approach to a backside jump/wrap. On his first attempt I did notice him coming in a little closer to the wing on approach.
Yes! Good job, Juno!! And different dogs need different ‘brakes’ – my littler dogs just need a tiny stop sign. My big dog needs a massive cue back towards his nose LOL!!
Keep me posted!! I am interested to keep hearing how Juno does with this!
TracyHi!
Last things first 🙂
>> On the master course #2 for this week. 1 through 4, what are your verbals and when do you deliver them? It is the jump tunnel jump jump sequence.
It is very dog-dependent, but with jump 3 being almost 20 feet away from the tunnel exit (and knowing how my dogs would respond to the different cues) – I want an extension exit on the tunnel. So I would lead out somewhere halfway up the tunnel, parallel to the 4 line, release while jogging and say:
Break
Tunnel tunnel (after the release, landing of 1)
GO GO (before the 6 foot info line in front of the tunnel)
Sauce Left (after the tunnel exit while I BC 3-4 but my guess is she would see it anyway)Bearing in mind that the GO before the tunnel means “take the tunnel and exit straight” , I am not concerned about any off course here because the other obstacles are not straight except 17 (which is 7 miles away) and she will be exiting on her left lead, so will easily pick up 3. I would do the same with Voodoo. I would keep yelling GO GO GO with Nacho because he would have a hard time finding 3.
On the video: baby dog did really well!!!! The opening is pretty hard! She did well on it!
On the 1st rep – you trusted her to find 1 a little too much LOL!! I think when we are disconnected and leading out, the youngsters watch us – so a moment of reconnection before the release helps them look at 1. You released and reconnected in the same heartbeat so she zipped by 1.
She found 2-3-4 really nicely!! Not an easy line at all.
It was hard to hear what verbal you were using on 4 – that is probably one of the hardest turns on this course.
She had a little trouble driving into you when you were running the parallel path on the serp at 5. I know you were calling her (heard verbals just couldn’t make them out LOL!) so I tend to think it was a young dog training moment (particularly with the tempting visual of the teeter out there!)2nd rep – she read the opening much better 🙂 You can be one step further over on 2 when you release to indicate that perfect path (:14) – you were passing the outside wing as she was making her jumping decision, so that is the part of the bar she jumped on. Ideally she would be center of the bar or further over towards 3 on the tunnel side of the bar.
She did a better job on the turn at 4 at :16, even though the bar came down – she drove back to you much faster and was trying to sort out her commitment to 5 as you moved forward through it at :19. It looked like you were using more physical help with your other arm but she had trouble with the countermotion when you released it (and definitely heard verbals in there too!)
Some ideas on training this – using just the 3-4-5 set up (maybe hide the teeter for a bit LOL) – 3 is a jump and 5 is a jump but 4 is just a wing. Sen from 3 around the 4 wing then move along the landing side of 5 as a regular serp. Using 4 as just a wing will add in the conditioned wing response of “wrap & hurry back” and so she is more likely to drive in for the serp. Start with slower motion if needed. Then using the same set up, when she is happy with 5 as a plain old serp, you can add in the countermotion of moving forward past the exit wing – still on your left and not very fast – and perhaps also tossing a reward back to the landing spot to solidify the commitment. Then you can add more motion/speed to it… then add the disconnection of the blind cross (that is hard).
When it is easy peasy…. make 4 a jump again 🙂 Jumps have different conditioned responses, but hopefully by then she will have sorted out how to drive right back to you for 5.After the weaves:
FC 8-9 timing and line at :27 looked really good from this angle, she had a nice turn and landed exactly on the next line as far as I could see!
On the middle line: switch to a go verbal or your jump verbal sooner, before she enters the last tunnel – you were either saying tunnel or come (hard to hear) and she looked at you on the exit so you had to push her back out which made the wrap a little late on 13 at :35. That caused the next part to come off the rails – she pushed back in, you turned forward and lost connection, she wasn’t sure so she drifted out to find the connection and line.
On the redo at the very end – you used GO, she was perfect on finding the jump (you were a little further ahead too, but when she is more experienced you can play with layering the 3 jump to get down the line more, but I don’t want to do any layering until she is very comfortable coming right in on 5). That made the wrap on 13 much more timely! You were one step or so outside the line through, so she had to push back in. Being outside the wing as she does the wrap here widens the line, so you can strategize to stay inside the wing until she is on the line to 14 (which can actually also create a nice line 14-15!Nice job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I realize I was using the wrong turn verbals on the tunnel exercises. Sigh.
Oopsie! Were those your wrap verbals?
>> Self-control requires a lot of bandwidth,
Truth! There is a study about self-control depletion and choices. Interesting, and gives us insight into why our dogs do things sometimes.
>>so I am upping the distractions at home when we train in the hope that when we get to do the class exercises on the rental field, with others present, he can focus. A work in progress.
That will help! And being sure he is well-rested before you take him into the difficult situations is important, per the science.
On the video:
Overall, I think he is looking great!!!! These are ideas focusing on the smaller details:Tunnel fun:
On the Go lines – the cues before the tunnel looked good! To help him drive away and not look back to you, you can move the MM in closer to the end of the tunnel and click sooner – when he enters the tunnel with his head straight, click it. You were waiting til he exited, so he was looking at you more than we want.
We can gradually move the MM away and delay the click to keep building the turns.Loose turns: He is doing well! I think you can use a more obvious step away on these, leaving sooner more like what you did at :32 – timing of the verbal seemed good! So the motion can come sooner to help solidify it so it doesn’t look like GO motion.
Sequences: SO much good stuff on these!
Rep 1 – you left a tiny bit too early and definitely too quietly 🙂 Before he was committed, you got quiet, turned your head and left, so he chose da momma (good boy, considering all of the other possibilities LOL! You were one heartbeat more patient and more connection on reps 2 and 3 and he was perfect.
2nd rep & 3rd rep – good job committing to the tunnel and the BC looked really good! Nice running line! You can actually start the timing of it a tiny bit sooner on rep 2 (on this type of line, you can do it while he is in the tunnel because your motion and blind support jump 3). And definitely sooner on rep 3, the BC was a little late there. But the running line was great and he read it perfectly. You can also throw the reward at the end to get him driving past you (he is not comfy doing that yet). He might not bring the reward right back lol but that is fine for now 🙂Seq 2: Wheeee nice job! A small detail: The decel for your wrap transition can be one stride later on the transition at 1:25 – start it as he is in the air over 3 or as he is landing, you did it as he was taking off so he had a little question (just a nit pick :)) The wrap itself was really good, little guy is turning!!! And nice drive back up the line to the end. This is another place to throw a reward so he drives past you at the end except the DW was a little in the way)
Seq 3: Very nice opening line! Timing, running line, connection, verbals – LOVELY! The future of Riot in agility, right there! After the #4 tunnel, you hesitated and that made the timing of the wrap at 5 late – you were not really moving but still moving forward and rotated as he was taking off. I love how he did find the tunnel entry though. So, as he is heading to the tunnel run like mad so you can show a transition similar to what he saw on Seq 2 (it might feel awkward coming out of a tunnel). The wrap redo at the end – slightly earlier but still late – you were rotating/slowing as he was taking off so you ended up sideways to the jump. But overall – he is really reading the cues and I am so happy with how he is doing!
In the custom skills sets, check out the exit line connection and pop offs, both of those will be fun to play with for him!
Nice work!
TracyHi!
>>Video 1 Course 1- I was saying tight at 7-8 however I noticed I say way too many directionals for the tunnel exit and I’m still saying right after he exits…so he hears that and then right away hears tight…need to cut my habit of saying something 3-4x especially when the tunnel is only 10 feet long…
Yes, good thought – plan the verbals. Turn off all verbals before entry/takeoff so you are not still saying them on exit/landing – this is especially important when the words are similar like “tight” and “right”. For those verbals, also, I suggest different patterns of saying them: emphasizetje “t” in tight: TighTighTigh and repeat the word short and fast. For the right: emphasize the vowel/dipthong and extend the word: riiiiight riiiiiiight.
>>I think the spin at 5 just kind of happened in my mind because of the angle of jump 4 and not thinking a send would work?
Sends got a bad reputation a few years back, they were bullied on the internet LOL!!! Sends got a reputation of ‘not working’ but sends work like a charm! The ones that don’t work are just poorly executed 🙂 I mean, I screw up blind crosses all the time with bad execution but I would never say they don’t work 🙂 Send and leave – so useful and can set a great line for dogs that know how to turn (and Benni knows how to turn).
>> Just found it really hard but quite amazing that he followed what I wanted despite the mess!
It wasn’t that much of a mess haha!! Just a little less smooth than it could have been.
>>Yes, the “out” on the last jump makes sense…now that I know “out” is a good verbal to have…I think Soshana and Jess don’t use it anymore…that must be who I was thinking about instead of you! LOL>>
Ha! It is possible they don’t currently have it: we all had it YEARS ago (as in, back when I was running my Dalmatians in 2002) and then in about 2014 or so, OMD came in am so many people stopped using verbals… so now those folks are putting verbals back into their systems (yay!) and might not have (or need) an out verbal. I need the out because my Voodoo (the big dog) is so fast and needs very very clear info that is also super early… so either I had to outrun him (yeah… wasn’t happening, which is why systems which relied on natural/physical cues simply did not work for him & me) or I had to put on as many verbals as I could. I am not sure my smaller dogs will need the out cue, but every time I think I can outrun the Papillon, for example, he reminds me that I am slow. I am 100% sure that BorderWhippet will need it. So, all the dogs learn it! Plus it is GREAT for gambles & FAST!!!
There are places where you can outrun Benni when you send him away and turn on your rocket boosters… but he is young and not yet running at his full speed (takes the dogs til they are about 3 to get to full speed :)) And I don’t want you to have to rely on your footspeed – we can train a tool for every situation, prioritizing the ones you will use the most 🙂>>Video 1 Course 2: So I THOUGHT he would need that step to see the turn from 2-3. When I did the do-over in video 2, I actually stood in a different lead out spot thinking that was the problem. So I’m not picturing what I would do without taking that step to jump 2…just do a pivot or position myself with dog on left from the get-go?
Yes, one option is to just position yourself there, release, tell him to jump 2 then move away. I like to be closer to the start of the line (closer to the landing spot of 2 but still on the line) and then move away.
>>I didn’t feel it was a good spot for me to do a blind so I did not try that.
Those are great places for blinds! Give it a whirl!
>>Video 4: Course 3 How would I run from the tunnel to get the BC between 3 and 4…would I run between the inside wings of 3 and 4 or run past the outside wing of 3
You could leave with him on your run and run between the wings of 3 and 4 then blind to your left. Of you could leave the tunnel on your left and do a serp on the landing side of 3.
>> And with the lead out 1-2….is dog on left the best way or could it be done a different way?
I like dog on left, it produces a good line and a ton of speed. If you are going to do the BC betwee 3 and 4, lead out less so he passes you and you can leave sooner.
>>All things considered, I was very pleased that he is able to follow my handling despite the imperfections that abound! >>
Yes! There was a TON of great stuff in there – and agility is an imperfect sport, which is why we look at those tiny details.
>>Any “custom” work we should try to do before the next package comes out?
Try out the ‘anchoring your running lines’ skills set. You are good with the exit line connection, just need to remind yourself when you walk the courses. You can also play with the pop offs to get tighter turns!
T
Hi!
>>Most important question: Did I do this they way you are saying?
Yes, pretty much spot on!
>>I ran both the original setup and a mirror image. If we call the two methods Yours and Mine we could become crabby and entrenched, so I’ll say Online and Parallel.
Ha! One thing I have learned about handling is that it is always better to NOT get entrenched, because my innate stubbornness might cause me to miss something important 🙂 So, thank you for setting this up!!!
And, if the heat ever gives you a break, I would be interested to see this on grass because he will stride it differently – which is important when we are timing to 100ths (which I was, which also I am sure is no surprise hahaha)
>>Regardless, there did not seem to be a significant difference.
I saw 3 things that might end up being useful!
On the parallel option, he consistently adds one more stride in the gap between 1-2 and/or 2-3 *unless* you leave really early and really fast – his commitment is strong enough to allow for that.
And when you did that (left early and with acceleration, it did get a less slicing line over 2 (between line to 3). That is when the times were most similar. On the online option, he had more tendency to one-stride 2-3 naturally but better timing on the parallel option helped smooth that out.
The other thing I noticed is that on the parallel options where you left your lead out position earlier & faster… you also ended up deeper to the tunnel. On the online option, the line to the tunnel was set sooner (landing of 2) so you didn’t have to go as deep. On this sequence… it didn’t make a difference because there was no place to get to. But it is definitely something to consider on bigger courses – shaving 2 steps off your line in the opening can put you in a great spot further up the course.>> I was afraid, with the online method, that I might actually get the wrong end of the tunnel,
>> since I was not running parallel to the dog’s path but diverging from it.You handled it well, even though it was less comfortable – you are parallel (on) the dog’s path for long enough to set it… then bye bye bye you are outta there 🙂 Feels like divergence because you run on/parallel to the line for less time, perhaps? But Enzo appeared to have zero questions.
>>although I’m not sure when I would be bold enough to intentionally start on the line and run a diverging path.
Well, that is what training is for 🙂 Get all the tools comfortable so you know just how long you would need to set that line – then decide what the best tool is for the situation. On this sequence, I am not sure it makes a difference – the times were very close on the first couple of reps, maybe a slight edge to online? But by the end it was pretty even because I think he knew the sequence LOL! But if the course continues to, say, some type of CRAZY threadle line on 6-7-8, then I would want to handle with the online version. Conversely, if I needed to get down to the tunnel entry and handle a tight exit, I would consider the parallel version because it allows me to deive in hard to the tunnel entry.
The other thing to consider is that comfort zone tools will be faster at first. In the past, I always handled these openings with a blind cross 2-3 (I often still do). They were wicked fast! When I added this push line tool, I timed every session: the blinds were faster at first by a whole lot, then things equaled out and they are just about identical now.Food for thought! Let me know what you think!
TracyVersion1 was cropped to allow short comparisons: https://youtu.be/tZZxeIPcKB8
Version2 was cropped a bit longer: https://youtu.be/HLpMU-JU1qY
If I were more agile with Coach’s Eye, I would be able to compare them more accurately. If I have time later tonight, I may tackle it. When I just read the time off the iMovie, they were always within .1 which is less than the accuracy of that eyeball method.
Hi! Ugh, the heat! It certainly is not much fun 🙁
>>Next, from between my legs, he cannot choose “left” or “right” with any accuracy (even with hints). At least I can practice this inside and get it trained up.
Perfect indoor a/c training! I recommend doing it on a jump or very short tunnel (he is facing a jump between your legs, so the left and right applies to “take it and turn” rather than on the flat)
>>The setup is so that the target jumps are on a soft 90 degree turn.
Looked good – happily he was already turning while in the tunnel, so the jumps were not luring the turns, just giving him something to drive to.
>I don’t think he is paying any attention to the verbal cues on these tunnel reps. My motion is 100% predictive of what I want. Is this what you wanted me to do??
For the moment 🙂 It is a start! It falls into the “get the behavior” category.
>>He was basically perfect leaving the tunnel each time. The only one which I thought was at all questionable was the last “go on”.
Yes, totally agree, I think he did REALLY well here! In past session, he was not as good on the turns with you doing ‘soft’ turn cues on the tunnel entry, even with the motion being super predictive. So… next step: verbal needs to be strengthened as a something that predicts the motion rather than happens during/after the motion.
When he hears the verbal, I would like him to predict that the next thing that will happen is that you will begin running that direction, so he doesn’t need to ‘wait’ to see the physical cue: he can think ahead and set himself up for the turn.
The way to get that is a specific order of conditioning (because it is really now about classical conditioning with a little bit of operant thrown in – I call it ‘predictive cuing)
So we need the verbal to happen *before* the physical (slightly separated in time) so he learns that “left” means the momma is about go thataway and that is where the reward is (toy, jump, etc). So you can start with him in the between-the-knees set up: start saying ‘left left left’ – let go, he moves, you then step the left. So it is the same order as Pavlov’s bell/food pairing:
left verbal then left motion/reward. Your motion and the reward will help condition the left verbal, so he will automatically turn left.
So we start without motion, but then we can add motion – you are running forward, saying left very early and *then* showing the physical cue.Eventually when the verbal is highly conditioned, the physical cue will be less important.
An example: right now I am teaching the puppy what the release “break” means.
So while she is in a sit, I say “break” and *then* tap the floor and then she moves and then the reward comes out. The reward is not necessarily contingent on the movement but she doesn’t hold position when I tap the floor – so I can ‘get’ the behavior and then a toy follows, which produces a positive conditioned response AND is a positive reinforcement, operantly.
Yesterday, I did not tap the floor: I said Break and she immediately moved out of the sit and came to me. It was a conditioned/reflexive response (“that word is followed by good things happening near that crazy lady”) and now it shifts over into the realm of Skinner where the toy is also a positive reinforcement. The 2 types of responses (conditioned and operant) are so closely tied that they might be almost inseparable, and it is how I get the dogs to respond to verbals as well – reflexive AND operant.
Let me know if that makes sense!Tracy
begin saying your left cue while moving forward
Hi there! The shirt is GREAT!!!!!!! And I think you did a lovely job getting through the courses!
>> I hope by the end of camp, I will be able to do a lot of things better…trust him more so I can get up the line and out of his way, set better lines, get used to setting the turns from further away etc. I’m not used to these kinds of courses so we’ll see how it looks after a few weeks of practice.
That is a definite goal for the summer! We will be looking specifically at handling choices (how to make them and how to execute them) in the coming weeks.
After watching them, here are some ideas for ya!
Course 1:
– On the 3-4 line, you can stay closer to the jumps to set a better line on first rep – you were closer on the 2nd rep and the line was better, but you can be one step closer to get it perfect.
– no spin needed on 4-5, that was actually too tight – you can send and go go go 🙂– yes, the wide turn at 7 (:13 & :58) was because you were backing up, backwards motion is still motion: remember to stop moving when you rotate. Also, I think you were saying right instead of the wrap verbal?
– On the exit of the 8 tunnel, you used a Right cue and it worked really well when you did it with a get out arm at 1:01! You can send to 8 and then drive ahead while using that cue to set the serp line. You did a serp to rear 9-10-11-12, I think it was a good choice and possibly the only option because it would be hard to outrun him up the line for a blind – You can set it tighter and sooner by being closer to the jumps (an arm’s length or less as you run up the line).– 14 is a hard line, a definite lead change so it is a ‘get out’ moment and not a go jump moment. It needs convergence or a push away – you gave a switch at :35 as kind of a RC on the flat so it was a little wide – I suggest a get out arm (I use my opposite arm) for that and convergence towards him. You ran faster and set it with motion at :40 and 1:07 which helped totally!! Running faster is never a bad thing 🙂
Course 2-
– On the opening: that lead out position near 3 is fine but the big step to 2 sends him wide. You can lead out there, release and just chill – he should then jump it nicely. No need to step in towards 2, that caused him to jump the center of the bar rather than turn towards you.
On the first rep at :05 then you pushed back in to 2 too much and it set the line to the off course tunnel. The 2nd rep and 3rd rep were more subtle in the opening but you were further from 3 (moving away from the perfect line). Another option here is to run into a blind cross.– About that pesky 6 jump: yes, he probably needed a soft turn on 5 to pick up the line to 6 or a FC instead of the BC – I think it was partially his inexperience, plus you were running to the blind cross and probably needed to call him to remind him to come in for the jump.
– I like the BC 7-8! Nice!!!! You can then call him sooner (the ‘right’ verbal) – he was hearing it at the exit, try to get it in at least 6 feet from the entry.
– After the backside, you can be a little closer to the serp line 9-10 (you can run closer to all of your serp lines, try not to pull away from them at all – staying closer will both get you further ahead and set great lines!)
– GREAT FC at 11 (:34 and :58) – nice send and go, and it looks like you ran a perfect path, his line was great!
– Coming back down the line – First rep – you pulled away from 13 at :35 and it looped the line a bit. It was much tighter at 1:01 when you stayed closer (trust his commitment to the serp jumps, I think you are tending to try to handle the jump rather than just connecting and running – trust it and let’s see if he has any questions) You got the blind on the last rep at 1:23 (yessss!) even with being a bit careful – you can put the pedal to the metal and get it very easily.Nice! That was the case on a lot of the courses – you can get the blinds, you just need to trust and giddy up to get there 🙂
– On the last jump – it is a get out line because of the lead change away, which is especially important when you rear crossed the tunnel – your physical cues were good but it was much easier when you got ahead after the blind 🙂
Do over video of course 2 – on this angle you can see the opening line better, how stepping in pushes the line too wide – he is jumping center of the bar on 2 when ideally we want him on the inside of the bar and turning towards you. I don’t think he needs you to step in with the right side of the body on this type of line.
The decel to the blind worked nicely and the FC worked REALLY nicely!!Course 3 –
– A bit of strategy, based on how it is set – you can go for a BC between 3 and 4 (takeoff side of 4) rather than landing of 4? That will set you up for the BC after 5 sooner (because that BC after 5 was VERY effective!) Or, trust and run to get to the landing of 4 sooner for the blind. You can also leave the tunnel earlier and differently to get to the landing side of 3 and serp up that line which also gets you to 5 sooner.– the BC on the landing side of 5 sets up a really nice line 5-6-7, so it is definitely helpful to get there – you were a little late but I think you can get away from 2 sooner and that will get you past 5 sooner too!
– I think he took the backside of 4 at 1:04 because he had been picked up and moved over, dogs don’t really love that and often ping away. Good to remember about him, especially on start lines!
– On the tunnel in the middle – he rad your positional cue each time and turned nicely! You can say left sooner to help support it, at that 6 foot info line before the entry.
On the ending line – the switch cues worked best when you stayed connected and kept moving – the first one at :21 had too much shoulder pull away, so it broke connection and he didn’t know which line you wanted. At 1:16 and the next rep you used more motion and it worked nicely to get commitment – I suggest more motion into it then decel before you rotate, to tighten it a bit. It is a lot of work, though… because it doesn’t set up a better ending line. I liked the wrapping to the left you did a lot better, even when it was wider – definitely set up a better ending line! At 1:40, your decel was late so the rotation was late and he was wider. You had a little too much slam on the brakes at 2:02 but you can see how a tight turn there sets up a great line to the end! On both of these, remember to use your exit line connection (arm across the body, not the dog-side arm) to set that last line.
Whew! Lots of good stuff here. A common thing I noticed on all of the runs: really great connection! You are almost always connected – and that is one of the hardest things. Well done!!!
Tracy
Hi! Think of how warm the winter will be with all that firewood!!!
Nice work here on these:
1st rep – Really nice run! You can be earlier on your verbals on before the tunnel, like name and go (those were said as she was exiting, try to get them in when she is hitting the 6 foot line in front of the tunnel entry). She is getting a really big stride (yay!), so you can probably start to decel while she is over jump 3 to make it one stride sooner. The turn at 4 was good but I think it can be gooder 🙂 Nice connection on this one!!2nd rep – I really liked the timing of your wrap cues here, you were decelerating as she was taking off for 3 so your cues were really well-timed and she set up a lovely turn. This is the “gooder” that I mentioned above hahaha! Great turn! The rest of the sequence was too quiet LOL I think you were so focused on your transition that you got really quiet. Keep reminding yourself to use the verbals. Great connection on this one too!
Rep 3 – The timing began the same as rep 2 here, but then you slammed on the brakes – she just needed one more moment with you decelerating forward, one more step. Plus, you were really wuiet 🙂 Use your verbals to help with commitment. Nice connection on this one too 🙂
last rep – This was the only disconnection – as you were heading to 4 you were looking forward, so she dropped 3. The turn on 4 was good, but keep the connection like you did on rep 2 (that one was pretty perfect). And remember to talk to her and drive all the way through the end – you stood up too early, stopped moving at the end and she dropped the last bar. Always drive like there is one more jump 🙂
Rep 2 is my favorite (just add words :)) Great connection AND timing!!! Yay! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I agree about the heat, it has been wicked!!
On the video:Seq 2: Both reps looked great! Line, connection, timing of the blind and the push cues – great! She slipped exiting the tunnel a bit on the 2nd rep. My only suggestion is to do the verbal “tunnel” and “go” cues sooner on the 1st so she is hearing them at landing of 4 and before she goes in the tunnel, respectively. It looks like she looked at you for a heartbeat on the landing of 4 on that first rep. I liked the timing on the 2nd rep, nice and early 🙂
Seq 1:
On that opening line: Line her up facing 2 on jump 1, as a pretty severe slice, to eliminate that extra turn at :19 & :45. Her angle at :40 was a little better but you will get an even straighter line on a more severe slice.
On the tunnel exit: Much more connection needed at :22 and :26 and :43 to set the turn. She is drifting here (and a couple of other places, see below) because you are looking for her but it is getting blocked by trying to connect with your dog-side arm. Check out the exit line connection in the custom skills sets that I posted yesterday 🙂 That will help set the line much sooner!On jump 3 – I agree that slice lines are a better choice on this backside… but I suggest slicing the other way 🙂 The exit of 2 into the backside of 3 is MUCH easier if you take her through the middle of the course rather than all the way past it (plus it sets up the same exit options at 4 if you want, or you can play with going the other way on 4. To get her to take the far side of 3,
you needed to get and hold onto a massive connection – when you did, she got it! When you pointed high with your arm, she didn’t get it because it turned your shoulders to the front side of the bar so that came in at the last moment.I like the send to 4 and the BC 5-6!! You can easily get there in terms of timing, but make sure your path is heading towards the correct side of 6 (you were too far over on 5 at :35 and :53 so she landed long then turned on landing).
On the exit of 6 – this is another spot where she was drifting behind you because of the connection – more exit line connection on both reps when you came through there will really help (there are visuals in the skills sets :))
Seq 3: fun to play with all the options!!
Option 1, circle wrap at 3 (also 1:48) – on these, the BCs at 2-3 can come sooner, they were a little late so she landed long on 2. Also, you can run a more perfect path 2-3 to help straight that line, you were a little too far over towards the middle of 2. The circle wraps themselves looked good! Nice and tight! But in terms of options, they will almost always be slower with a dog her size. See below 🙂Option 2 (also at 1:52)- the threadle (in in) circle wrap worked well, try to cue the threadle sooner – I like to use a turn cue on the jump before (jump 2 in this case) to help tighten it up – she landed then had to turn in for the threadle. Also, try moving forward into the BC after it so you don’t get too far behind on this option.
Option 3 (also at 1:28) – slice to blind (German) was really nice! She read them well both times. See if you can be one more step further over to the exit wing on the push cue so you can be on takeoff side when she is on takeoff side too! Good running line on the exit!!
Option 4 (also at 1:38) – slice the other way – You had good timing on the blind to get there, but your perfect path running line was a little too far over (kind to the center of the bar on 3) so she landed long then had to push back. The difficulty of that handling choice, though, is that you have to send from so far away in order to cue the exit wrap on 3, so the line into it gets sacrificed. You can try a forced blind or forced front on 3 there, rather than handling from the landing side (you would end up doing a double cross on the takeoff side, but that is fine 🙂
Also, on this exit make sure you set the exit line by running the perfect path – you were stepping away from it so she was going a stride or two wider than needed.Which was fastest? Option 3, the German slice. It makes sense – the entry line is all extension and the exit line lands her easily facing the tunnel.
You had good turns at 5 at 1:06 and 1:16, but they got a little wider on the next couple of reps (1:26 and after) – use your cue hand (left hand here) more towards her nose and less towards the landing spot to get more collection (like you did at 1:51) If your hand is low, quiet and towards her, you will get great turns.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think. Stay cool!
Tracyhi! These looked great! The soft turns all looked really strong – after the decel/step away, you can then take off for the next spot and see what she does (I am guessing she will like it :)) and same on the wraps: When you rotate, you can start to move to the next line. I know there isn’t any place to go on this little set up LOL! But she will enjoy chasing you up the next line, making it very worthwhile to turn and drive out of the tunnel. She is a big dog and was producing GREAT turns, super happy with them!!!! There was the one rep (2nd to last one, I think it was) where you did turn a little too soon and she slowed down before entering – but if you turn and run away, she will accelerate on the exit. And the chasing of da momma will eventually override the slowing down if you are too early, which gives you more freedom to not have to be perfect. I am really happy that she has told us that the decel is more of the cue for her than the rotation because it allows you to do the rotation as a last minute thing, icing on the cake – and the decel can be subtle and she still reads it. Very cool! Nice work here!!
TracyBigger spaces and different running surfaces absolutely change the timing. Plus, running in a/c probably got a lot more speed from him too, he was flying!
Hi!
Starting from the end of your post first:>>If I can’t produce the result I want from close in, then there is no point in moving away, so we’ll stay close for a few more sessions. Ideas for more effective training always welcome. (I cut out most of the play/praise but it was there.)
Agreed – start close in but I think the wing-to-tunnel set up is close in enough while still having a bit of speed. It allows you to show motion – being at the end of the tunnel with the toy is a good warm up but I do believe we need do it from speed and motion as early as possible. And along those lines – systematically 🙂 I use my 2×80 rule when deciding if I can increase challenge or if I need to decrease it: 2 sessions in a row at 80% success or higher before I change anything (such as adding speed or more distance, etc). If we don’t get that, we tend to move too quickly and then there are holes. If my sessions are logging in at 60%…. then I need to decrease the challenge. So you can start start with a set amount of motion with the wing 15 feet away, for example: do 10 reps of left/right from handing the entry of the tunnel. See how many fall within the proper success level for 2 sessions then move to the next step of increase or decrease.
(You could do it from the exit of the tunnel, but I think the lure of the toy or hand was producing the turn plus there was not a lot of motion – so I would start after that step – perhaps not a lot of motion but without the lure)So on tunnel exits, how to judge success? You can have something that you can see as a marker but also that he does not think he needs to go around. Watching the tunnel bags… he was exiting pretty nicely then lined himself up to go around the tunnel bags, so it is entirely possible that he thought he was supposed to go around them like a cone or wing or something. When there were no tunnel bags on the right turns, his turns looked much different (better!)
I do leashes on the ground to help judge, and I also do jump wings: a jump wing maybe 15 feet past the exit on the go line, one 15 feet past the exit on the left line: it gives the dog an anchor to drive to. Sometimes I do a C-shaped tunnel so one end is a go and one end is a left 🙂
>>He likes food – should I switch to food rewards for a session or two?
You totally could, as long as it is highly worthwhile to drive to!
>>I want to get right, left, go-on and chkkk-chkkk close in with no motion before I try anything else.
You could do this in the 2×80. But by close in, I do recommend being on the tunnel entry and not the exit at this point.
>>Then in a burst of either forgetfulness or masochism, I started going left. I did some chase-rewards but it didn’t seem to help and the number of chase recalls I can do is quite limited.
Haha yes sometimes we do have those bursts then we wonder why we did it LOL!!! The chase rewards are compelling and get a lot of drive to a new line – hard to know if it helped or not in just one session. You don’t need many reps in each session but multiple sessions are in order.
>>So the first one is at :18. I give both verbal and physical cues; he exits the tunnel looking left and on his left lead — and he makes a wide loopy turn to the left. (Love how YouTube lets me do slo-mo wherever I want.)
I think he was wrapping the tunnel bags on those.
>>The right turns were much better.
No tunnel bags on those 🙂
>>What do you think? Are the loopy ones ‘good enough’ or should I stick to the 90 degree criteria?
I suggest marking the criteria differently do he can drive to something – a leash on the ground perhaps to mark the line you want him inside of, then he drives to you or a wing or another tunnel?
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Oh, I meant to add: I am a bit disappointed in how poorly Enzo responds to tunnel cues, since he has been working on them for a long time. At least as long as cues that he responds to very well; for example backside wrap versus backside slice.
Understandable! I think part of it is that he is feeling the wind in his hair more now especially in the tunnels – speed has increased, excitement has increased… totally normal and in fact, desired! But that also always means that something, somewhere is going to get “looser” – and in his case, tunnel exits. Many dogs lose their weave pole entries/exits or their contacts or tight turns on jumps at this point as well (I have been there!!) and I think Enzo is looking good on these so I will happily take wide tunnel exits as the ‘loose’ skill LOL!
>>Oh well, it doesn’t really matter. The dog tells us what he does or doesn’t know, regardless of what we think we have taught or we think he should know.
True, the dogs give us the actual feedback on the training… but a bit of venting is allowed LOL!! We don’t train with punishment and we don’t get mad at the dog – so we are totally allowed to vent about it.
>>Possibly has something to do with how easy it is to work jumping drills and what a pain it is to work tunnel drills.
Relatable!! I work very few tunnel drills lately, between the heat and the tunnel bagging and Voodoo ripping his dewclaws apart in tunnels and and and…. jump drills are so much easier LOL!
OK back to that lead out: sorry for any confusion!
>>The first one, with the circled A is that I considered that I did:
– Lead out to a strategic position at the point of the first turn.
– Move as soon as he is committed to jump #2 (almost immediately)>>Yes, that is what you did – and it produces a turn on landing with a bit more of a zig zag than we want. Almost universally, we want the dogs to turn on the inside section of the bar of jump 2 (the side closer to 1, where you drew the red line) but with that lead out position, they jump the center of the bar facing the handler and turn on landing (even with the great connection and fabulous timing you showed). My guess on why is that the dogs are making decisions before they leave the stay on a lead out so based on where you are standing on the release: boom, decision made even *before* the release. That position can work better in the middle of the course where handler motion is affecting the turn into it and the dogs can see the bigger picture.
And yes, B is closer to what I mean –
>>The second shows me starting on the path (is this what you mean by “Try to lead out right on the line and execute the FC with the same timing but on the exact line you want him on (then get outta there of course)”. But I don’t like it because then my path is not parallel to the dog’s path. Running a parallel path is one of those “things” I do.>>
I agree that it will feel uncomfortable at first – it is more “on” the line and not as much parallel to the line. It is more of a serpentine position on 2 and the dogs read it really well – you will be well past the #3 jump to cue the line to the tunnel with no problem. I did a snippet of it with the blank slate baby dog (part of something else getting posted) – these are jumps 2 and 3 (I turned him over the 2nd jump here to reward but he was center of the bar on it, so it would have been easy enough to get a tunnel out in the distance – I would not be there that long with the adult dogs, I would be setting that turn on the release and long gone when he landed at 2. That is something you can easily do with Enzo.
>>I thought you were taking the weekend off?
Only Saturday 🙂 It was a do-nothing day at home 🙂
Let me know what you think!
T
Hi! I bet the a/c felt GREAT!!!!!! Yes, you are going to have to get running, he was really happy to be able to open up 🙂
Great threadle from the DW to the tunnel at :12 – you were on a perfect line (on the video, you were parallel to the center of the teeter) – great connection, great footwork – Cody read it perfectly.
He dropped the bar after the tunnel at :17 – you were standing up to make the transition to the turn, I think the bar was just a combination of him getting used to the different footing after some time away from it, and you sorting out the timing, shaking off a bit of rust. Based on how long it took him to get back into the camera’s view, I am thinking that he did not turn very tightly on the next jump LOL! Coming in with all that speed, the early cue is probably what he needed – and you can be even earlier to you can be more fully rotated and connected with a strong brake arm.
Obsessing on the off course tunnel at :41-:43, it is really subtle:
I think there was a subtle difference in how you handled it that caused him to go back to th other end. Comparing it to the same thing at :12, where you had the arm but you kept moving forward towards the line you wanted, feet facing the correct end of the tunnel, no stop then start… on this rep you actually turned back to him and connected TOO much (I know, too much connection, who knew it was a thing?? Ha!) But turning back as much as you did, it caused your feet to turn towards the end of the tunnel he went into (freeze it on :42) You had a little more stop-then-start than on the rep at :12. That caused you to block the line a little (on the rep at :12 you were moving away from the line and on this rep you were on it for longer which pushed him away to the other end. Then, with your feet facing there and you starting to move, he was pretty convinced about which end it was 🙂
Then note your running line and feet at :58 when you re-did it – much closer to what you did at :12 and Cody was perfect.
The rest looks really good!! You can add in a little soft brake arm on the jump before the teeter (like the one you did at the very end) to tighten it up. Cody looked like he was moving beautifully and confidently!!!!Let me know what you think! Nice work!
Tracy
