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Hi!
>>Let me just say in general, I have no idea how to run this dog yet :). We have had time to work individual skills, but we haven’t spent much time putting lots of things together. Hard year.
Yes – crazy hard year and also she is still so young, that it is completely understandable that you are still finding the rhythm.
>Also, it felt like two jumps is harder than 4 or 5. She and I both love our adrenaline.>
Yes! it adds the element of not being able to drive in with motion – definitely harder 🙂
Do you care if we start these skills from a tunnel? I am not a fan of having Zing doing a bunch of sit/stay.
>>2nd rep, yep, I want a wrap. I don’t think I have proof this one as well. Can’t remember doing in on an angle jump. She is sensitive still to the angle of jumps. We will go back and work that.
I’ve git a head-turn thing coming, stay tuned LOL
>>“it did totally look like a backside send at :22, because as she landed from 1 you did the big arm change – so that created pressure out to the backside .”
interesting. I should never have that arm up for a backside send. In this case I would use my left arm for the send. So I obsessed on this, I was looking at the backside at .22, at .29 my focus was more down and to the right wing.Does that have anything to do with it, was she also paying more attention to where my eyes were focused?>>Could be! It looked like it was more of a pressure thing – the opposite arm sends to the backside are natural for many dogs even if they are never trained, because of the pressure of the shoulders/chest and where you eyes are. It was probably an all-of-the-above moment 🙂
>>.39, total f*&^ up on my part LOL>>
Ha! She got her prize so she was very happy 🙂
>>let me know what you think of the tunnel start.
Sure! Or a wing to wrap around. Either way is fun!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Hope you’re up for more of Mochi & me, because you got us. 🙂
ALWAYS happy to see you both!!!
>>I don’t have huge amounts of space in the backyard, so I may have to get a little creative for the coursework, but I can also rent training space, so I will do that when I can.>>
Everything is flexible so we can be creative.
>>On a couple of these, we only did one rep if it was right on the first go, just to save her energy since she likes to give 8000% on everything.
Smart! No need to drill her!
>>Stupid question – what is the difference between 4 & 5 in the skills? I could not figure it out, but it’s been a looooooong week.
Haha not stupid at all… it is an accidental duplicate. Sorry!
Onwards to videos:
A general tweak on the first video is to have her line up on a slice for 1, so she if facing the backside at 2 and can run a straight line rather than have to turn on landing.
1st rep – very nice!
Backside wraps on the other reps:
it was the handling not the tunnel (the poor tunnel takes the blame for everything hahahaha!!)
She was being a very honest girlie. As you were cuing her to come around to the backside, you were moving forward and turning your shoulders at :18, :26 and :39. That shoulder turn towards the bar commits her to the slice line (as if it was a slicing rear cross aka whiskey turn). So – treat it like a wing wrap and not a jump bar: be sideways to the wing, (your right hip near the wing) and cue her to take it – but then step out of of and don’t turn your shoulders to the bar (no need for a hand on landing side either) – moving forward should be plenty (and connection of course). That will help her discriminate slice versus wrap.2nd video:
Nice job on the post turn wrap! Try to do it a lot sooner – cue and leave so she can see your departure before she decides how to take off.
on the 2nd rep, you were facing a little too forward so she jumped long and ticked the bar, but the 3rd rep had more movement away so she was able to pick up the turn. So the suggestion on this one is to trust her commitment and leave early 🙂 I would say that the timing will be best if you leave before she passes you.3rd video:
first rep: the bonus tunnel was valid: at :07 when she comes around the wing, your feet and chest were pointing to it and you were moving, sooo… tunnel! Wheee!
With the tunnel there as a potential on the line, she would need more than a post turn, probably needs a spin.
On the 2nd rep at :18 you did more of a threadle/reverse flow pivot to get her off the tunnel – she didn’t take it but she sure had questions 🙂 It also put you behind for the line to 4 – as she took 3 (no worries if it was the wrong side :)), you lost connection trying to get up the line at :20 so she took the wrong side.
3rd rep was definitely smoother! I do think a spin on 2 will get her eyes off the tunnel easily while also getting you running forward sooner. The threadle worked here but it still faces you the wrong direction for a shade too long.4th video – the timing of the first wrap was really lovely! You can match that timing for the 2nd wrap but starting it the instant her head comes around the wing. And nice job on the backside! Note on that backside at :07 that your feet were pretty forward and you did not turn your shoulders to the bar: she committed and did not consider the delicious tunnel 🙂 So this is more like what the backside wrap on the 1st video should look like, the only difference being that you will be more on the landing side than on the takeoff side.
Great job here! Let me know if it makes sense, especially the backside wraps 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>She also tends to take off far from the jump, I see where you said I need to rotate sooner to help tighten her turn.
She doesn’t take off very close on tight turns, but she does make adjustments to her approach that allow her to turn tight (versus where she takes off for extension lines)
>>We did the novice seq. today. I couldn’t find Seq 1 so we started with 2.
Sequence 1 should be in the PDF – I reloaded it because it was wonky for a bit. Sorry!
On the video:
theses are looking good!1st rep – you can give the left cue before she enters the tunnel and run a bit more closer to the lines so you don’t get stuck dancing in place. That is especially true at :05 as you go from the jump to the tunnel and have to get up the line – connect to her eyes and cue the tunnel but run sooner. You are tending to bend over and wait, and I bet you can get outta there sooner.
2nd rep – you gave your right cue on time before the tunnel and she did turn right… it is possible you need a wrap cue on the tunnel exit here to get a tighter turn. The threadle hlped get her to the correct side but I think that a wrap cue rather than a right cue will help that too.
At :22 on the wrap jump after the tunnel, you can cue a bit more collection – rather than indicating the jump and the landing spot, go to the position you were in and use your left hand more towards her and nice and low, kind of like a stop sign toward her nose before she gets to the takeoff side. That can tighten it and also allow you to leave early 🙂
Something to try is to see if the slice line is faster here – you can use one of your strong rear cross skills to slice her over that jump and take off! It would be fun to time the difference.3rd rep – you had 3 verbals on the tunnel – a right, a collection (I think?) and then the threadle. At least that is what I think they were 🙂 You can drop the right and just use the collection verbal and see how she does.
Good job trusting her line to get the jump and the tunnel! Verbals and a little bit of connection are all she needed there at :30
At the wrap, when you try the hand on the takeoff side, also try to move more directly forward to that last jump for a few strides then move away laterally (so you don’t end up jumpin the bar haha) – a few strides of running forward right past the wing will set a tighter line to the last jump. You’re running away laterally so she is going wide to follow that line.4th rep – I like the idea of the side change on the tunnel exit! She needs to see it happen before she goes in: the last thing she saw was you accelerating forward, so she also accelerated forward. Let her see you execute the blind while she is still 3 to 6 feet before the tunnel entry, so she is prepared when she exits.
That, plus a little decel on 3, will set up a really nice line 🙂
There was that lovely slicing RC on the 6 jump!!>>Even though it was longer, I liked the rear on 6 and I think it was easier on her body. I see was not a backside
Haha yeah, not a backside but it is harder that way LOL!
And I am not convinced the yardage is longer when you take into account the yardage of the wrap. I timed the difference between the slice here and the wrap on rep 2: the slice is faster by about .15 🙂 Yay for slices!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thunderstorms and deluges derailed my head turn video – heading out in a few minutes to try it again, the rain has stopped for a moment.1st rep – very nice! This is an easier slice to his right here than the other side to his left. You can see if you can cue then elave earlier: you stayed near the jump til he took off: try to move out of there as he is passing you.
2nd rep & 3rd rep – this left turn is a harder angle based on the angle of the jumps, so you can emphasize the collection in one of 2 ways (or both :)) – you can rotate your feet more to the new line. Rather than have your feet parallel to the jump, rotate your feet fully back to where you are going next: your toes will be perpendicular to the jump bar and not parallel to it.
You can shape this turn more as more of a reverse v-set, by changing your position on the bar: placing yourself more where the wing meets the bar to shape the line.
The angle of the jump & line suggest this, not the left turn itself 🙂
On the 4th rep at :19, you had a little bit more of a shaping position and he definitely collected a little more on the takeoff side. Not turning his head (yet) but still collecting 🙂 So the shaping position on that type of line is something worthwile to play with, along with more rotation.
MIrror:
1 -now the left slice is the easy slice! At :26 he is taking off and you are still cuing the jump… feel free to be long gone by then 🙂 As soon as you see him collecting, you can move out to the next line – this will also turn your feet more and will result in an even sweeter turn.2- the right wrap is the harder one here but your rotation and timing of leaving earlier made a BIG difference – you started moving away at :30 when he was passing you, so he added more collection! The earlier departure and turn of feet make a big difference to him.
2nd video:
1st rep:
At :03, you are really very rotated and leaving and he is still pretty far from the jump: very nice turn there! At :06 on the 2nd wrap (also to the right) he is in about the same spot relative to the jump on the first wrap where you were already leaving: but on this wrap, you are just starting the info so he is little wide.
Same thing happened on the 2nd rep – at :12, he has landed from 1 and is miles from the jump, and you are giving tons of collection info (you are basically fully turned before he takes off) so he sets up a great turn! At :15 you started the info much later, so the turn did not have the same quality.>> I did it as shown and then I did a mirror to answer the question: “Does he turn better one way than the other?” It appears to me that he turns right better than left.
I am not sure yet – I think you showed better info on the right turns than the left turns, so try to flip the sides and show the early info – I bet he turns equally well on both sides.
>>Then I went off in a corner to obsess on backside wraps.
Haha! I will be trying the head turn video again, rain seems to be done, fingers crossed!
THi! Nice work on these!
1st rep – yes, you left really early on the first wrap (:13) and he did great! Be prepared for the 2nd one sooner: as he exits the first wrap, you will need to start to slow down & rotate – you started the rotation just as he lifted off (:15) so he jumped wide and that also contributed to the reconnection on the blind being a little late. Good backside send!!2nd rep – great timing on the first wrap (:31) and 2nd wrap (:33)!! Nice turns on both!! I think as soon as you cue the wrap, you can then turn your had and start the blind – that way it guarantees that you will be reconnected before he lands. His commitment is strong enough to handle that early head turn.
3rd rep – great turns again on the wraps (:44 and :46) but then you reconnected so much sooner after the blind (you reconnected as he was landing, so he saw it as soon as he turned) and it set up smooth lines to the next backside. The bar down at :50 was due to the timing of the ball throw.
4th & 5th reps – at :57 & 1:15 you did a post turn blind (turning away, as opposed to a spin where we turn towards the dogs) – it is a good skill to use! You can start it earlier so it is ideally finished before takeoff. Your motion supports the commitment as you move towards it, so you can start turning your head for thr blind before he even passes you. That earlier timing will allow you to tighten that turn and then also be earlier on cueing the next wrap. On the way to the backside at 1:03: you made a really nice connection with him as he rounded the wing at 1:01, but then turned forward to the jump at 1:02 so he read it as a blind cross because of the shoulder rotation and switched sides. Keeping your arm back here and maintaining the connection will help keep him on your left side. You made the adjustment nicely at 1:19 and held the connection longer as you moved up the line – and he found it really nicely!
So keep pushing the early limits of the timing – you’ve built his commitment really well so you have more freedom to do things really early – which will help create tight turns and get you to better positions on course 🙂
Great job! Stay cool 🙂
TracyHi! This looks great!!! She is doing very grown-up stuff 🙂 Yes, the verbals were a little soft but the soft verbals were the turn verbals… and there is no need to shout them hahaha!! She did so well that we can obsess on the finer details – fun!
1st rep – backside slice: see if you can cue it from no further over than center of the bar then keep your chest open to leave. That can help with staying further ahead and setting exit lines.
2nd rep – threadle – wrap or slice? I think you wanted wrap, so you can get her to turn her head more before you cue the jump – a larger hand cue will do it and it is definitely on my agenda for CAMP – getting the dogs to turn their heads!!
3rd rep – very nice wrap! Nice timing and connection and she was nice and tight!
4th rep – it did totally look like a backside send at :22, because as she landed from 1 you did the big arm change – so that created pressure out to the backside .
On rep 5 at :28, you loved forward for a moment longer, and more towards the wrap wing, and she got it 🙂 Stay a little more connected on the exit there so she can drive to the correct line/side immediately.6th rep at :35 – she read the handling (post turn wrap) really well based on the physical cue – as she was taking off, you were facing the fence so that is the direction she thought you were going. So, to do a stronger cue on the post turn, you would need to be more fully finished before takeoff for it which would likely mean shaping the takeoff a little by being closer to the center of the bar so you can also turn and go sooner. Or, to create the line… a ketchsker would work nicely too 🙂
You had good connection as she came around the wing, so you can being your right wrap cue sooner – verbal was a little late but the physical cue had too much support forward before you rotated – you started the rotation just before she lifted off, so the jumping decision had already been made. It will be fun to see how much she understands about commitment: as she comes around the wing of the 2nd jump, you can decelerate and then when she is made halfway to 3… turn and go and see what happens 🙂7th rep – :43 – good job getting the RCs, those are hard cues with youngsters!!! You can stay closer to the wings of the jump before the RC jumps, so she feels the RC pressure sooner and so you can be ahead again when you cut in behind her. You had good patience with setting the line for the 2nd RC – you were blocking the backside wing on jump 3, so be sure to show her more of the wing so she can do directly to it (rather than around you) – but stay patient like you did 🙂
8th rep (:53) – it is hard to show a transition on just 2 jumps, but you can accelerate more as you release her, so you can show her the decel into the rotation – she did collect but she wasn’t 100% sure of exactly how much to collect on 2. A change in motion can help clarify that. And then have a patience moment at jump 2 as she wraps, so you can set up the RC while not setting too wide of a line… you left the wrap wing and ended up taking a wider line to set the RC, so she was wide going to and then out of jump 3. Patience is my least favorite word EVER haha but staying closer to the wing of 2 will tighten those lines up 🙂
rep 9 – 1:03 – wraps are looking good! You had a little more transition going especially to the 2nd one (and you were closer to the lines) so she turned well! After the 2nd wrap (1:09), try to move your running line over more so as she is thinking about the backside, she can see the wing. She is a little wide there because you were running on the line she needed to be on 🙂 If you get the 2nd wrap then run more towards the center of the bar on the backside jump, she will see the wing better – this will mean more upper body connection/arm back/verbal to get the backside, but I bet she can do it (I *know* you can do it :)) and the lines will be really nice!
rep 10 – 1:13 – this rep had all of the really lovely finesse pieces for all the turns… so now you get to trust and leave sooner on all of them. Wheeeee!
On the wrap on 2 at 1:15 – leave before she takes off, so you are done with the blind when she lands. You hung out a bit and started the blind when she landed at 1:16, so she had to slow down to let you clear the line 🙂 On he wrap FC at 3 (1:17), you can decel, turn and leave sooner – you’re going to laugh, but yo can connect a little *less* there LOL! Connect yes, but don’t wait as much.
On the backside FC – you started the cue really nicely at 1:18, nice and early! You can keep your upper body more open to her, no need to turn and face forward to support it – that way you are still rotated as she passes you to the backside, making it easier to show the FC earlier and setting up a tighter turn there too.Rep 11 (1:27) – nice collection on 2! She couldn’t quite see enough connection here as she landed from the wrap – note how your arm ais a bit parallel to you and your head is turned but your eyes are looking down and not back to her… so she drifts at 1:28 trying to sort out which side to be on. So as you exit the wrap, keep the dog-side arm back and make a strong eye contact with her, so she can see which side to be on. And to set up a RC on 3, you can actually stay closer to 2 to set the line – that will help clarify the physical cue of RC versus wrap.
Speaking of that: rep 12 at 1:34 – same thoughts on the wrap at 2 – more connection so she doesn’t drift coming around it. And then the physical cue did look very similar to the RC cue on rep 11… and you said right LOL! So yes, say left – but also to show the wrap more clearly, setting the line from 2 will help and run forward a bit longer, decelerating forward and then rotating (towards the wrap wing).
Last rep:
Same thought about showing more connection exiting 2 🙂
I think you are trying to get your left arm up too early on this wrap, earlier than she needs – it was up as she came around the wing at 1:44. That inhibits running forward – at 1:37 (previous rep) – you were in a good spot near the wrap wing but the too-early new arm caused your body to rotate as if asking for a RC. On this rep, you adjusted your running line to step out towards the fence more – which worked but it will make it harder for you to leave to get to your next spot on courses. I think you can face the wrap wing longer to commit her to that side and use the new arm coming up just after you start to decel and it will work really nicely.Hi!
>>Question – do you have a different verbal for backside wrap versus backside slice? That can help! See more below.
>No. I don’t have two different verbals. I’ve been concentrating on too many others. I could certainly add these or modify her collection to the backside.Two options to consider on this, then:
* A compound verbal: back + wrap verbal. Done early enough, the dogs do really with it. It is a slightly longer sentence: go there and wrap to your left
* A different verbal. I use Back for backside slice and Dig for backside wrap with my youngsters. It is a short sentence that I can deliver fast: back wrap.Ideally, there are 2 distinct cues… but in reality, you can prioritize the importance of 2 distinct cues based on the other things on your list to train 🙂 I freely admit that I have only so much brain space for all of the verbals. I can do more verbals with Hot Sauce because she is easier to run than Voodoo, which means there is more brain space available to spit out the correct words 🙂 Voodoo does fine with the back + wrap verbal. Would he be better a separate verbal? Possibly, but it is a low priority because of other factors (like the amount of connection he requires from me on course is so intense that I am lucky I remember my own name, sometimes :))
>> But if the wrap is on a slicy line, she might slice it a little more than setting herself up to turn.
After watching your videos and Barb w/ Enzo, I think there is a training thing we can do to help with those hard backside slices – teach the dogs to turn their heads as part of it. Not just their bodies… turn their heads! I am doing this with Contraband (it is important to get whippety dogs to turn their heads :)) and I will post videos.
>>Do you have a video of this? Are you saying that I would look to the landing spot as I pull away (after commitment?) .
Here is a rather lengthy explanation with demos that show them in exaggeration 🙂 We tweak the volume dial of the connection based on what the dogs need:
At first, yes, you can shift back to the landing spot as you leave progressively earlier and earlier – but eventually I bet we can take that out (or sooner rather than later, she will tell us).
>>Also, what does “frontier” mean? Or was that a typo. I can’t figure out what that means so it must be a typo.
Sorry! Frontier means “the next training thing to focus on” 🙂 in terms of ‘expanding horizons’ with the youngsters. So what I meant was the future can bring us ways to cue and connect less, to be able to get up the next line more easily (for us) without sacrificing precision and teamwork/success rate
>>Interesting. Lever responds to that cue so nicely, but she obviously reads it different. Again, do you have a video example of this? I’d love to make sure I had it visually correct before trying it.
Yes! Somewhere – I will find it because it is not in my regular videos, hmmm…. if I can’t find it, I will do a video.
>>Not sure which I should use….I currently have so many verbals (also have a SHITLOAD of location specific event markers for her, which HELP her a lot!!). I feel like things need to settle for a bit before I can handle more.
Go for the compound verbal then, so you don’t end up with too many for now: backside + collection. Those are 2 verbals that are already in use and should be at your fingertips, so to speak, when running.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Every other agility dog of mine has responded to namenamename as a turn cue, so I was pretty flabbergasted to see it fail so miserably here. >>
Riot says that he is a 2020 dog where he wants ALL the words LOL!!! I feel the same way – several of my other dogs would turn so nicely on namenamename…. and then I got Voodoo. HA! Now there are a lot of words happening 🙂
>>Check is a wrap, but by rep 4 I was desperate to get some kind, ANY kind of turn, in motion. A total bandaid in the moment and I knew it, but I did it anyway! I also made a note after that to keep working on his left and right, which is something else I can do in my little yard.>>
Completely relatable. Sometimes we are all like, “please just turn!” haha!
>>I really like the turn and go the other way idea and rewarding when he arrives. He greatly enjoys running in big loops and circles with a toy or without a toy. Always has, from the time he was a baby puppy. Drive bys are quite common, where he will swoop by and keep going.
Get him to chase you for it, don’t stand still – then then if he chases you pretty quickly, you can release for a go-round with the toy 🙂
>> If I had to guess, I would say he finds his own motion very stimulating, and I think reinforcing, as well as stress reducing. >>
All of the above, yes 🙂 Kind of self-stimulating and a release valve… but that is fine! We use motion as a reward – chase da momma, go for a run! And I think it is perfectly fine to let the dogs run around as a release valve – makes for very happy-making brain chemicals 🙂 My dog Export was just like that as a youngster – I remember he once spent about 10 minutes running giant loops around a barn as part of an extensive victory lap LOL!!!! He is 14.5 years old and still runs runs runs runs. It is all good 🙂
>>So if you have thoughts on that, or games or things we can work on, please let me know.>>
Don’t obsess on it – and don’t try to put more control on it. Just reward with chase then let him have moments where he can just run. And keep sessions short and sweet so he doesn’t have too much steam to release 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Nice work on the sequences! He has a really strong skill set and you are really connected, so we can really obsess on how to get more and more speed on each element. Fun!
First a couple of thoughts on the sequences then ideas to get to the goal of more speed:On sequence 1: this was all really smooth throughout all 4 reps – excellent connection, your backside send was really strong and you were able to leave early to create a really nice turn on all the reps! On the backside slice at jump 6 – I bet you can send to the backside and just run forward. As long as you maintain connection like you did, it seems like he does not need any help (like shoulder moving or decelerating) coming in to take that # 6 jump. That adds more speed! You used less and less ‘help’ on 6 on each sequence, and he appeared to have no questions about the line on 6.
You were early and you did trust him more… and his turns were SO NICE!!!! He knows his job, you’ve clearly done your foundation work!!!
On sequence 2: he wrapped the bar at 3 really nicely on these reps, and you did a lovely job of cue, trust and go go go 🙂 With that in mind… it would be fun to see if the slice lines are faster for him! Slices are almost always faster – so you can see if having him slice 3 to get 4 (the slice 4-5) is the fastest route. You can play with slicing 3 so he turns to his left (away from the tunnel) and then turning left again over 4 (and you can also see if turning to his right over 4 is fast, as it sets up a good line for 5!) It is possible that running into a blind cross on the takeoff side of 4 (he enters on the same side he wrapped on an exits on the other side) might be the fastest line. A bit harder to handle? Oh yes LOL! But worth it!
On the 5-6 line, he needed a turn cue to get the front of 6 because he was running in extension (yay!) and understands how to stay on backside lines (also yay!). You did a FC on the last rep there and it worked! You can also do a soft brake/shoulder turn, where you decelerate a little bit and show him a little bit of the opposite arm to get him to turn before takeoff, while you keep running up the line. This would start as he finishes coming around 4 and is looking at 5, so he can collect a bit before takeoff.
Some general ideas:
A few things I notice – he drives nicely off the start line! So you can lead out and give him a little ‘ready…ready…….’ then release and run. That should get even more of an explosion off the start line!
And, since he loves loves loves to chase you – you can try to race him up the line 4-5-6 to get a blind cross on the *takeoff* side of 6 (rather than push to the backside). It will make you scramble to get there, but I think Ivan will like that – he will go faster but he won’t lose his mind 🙂
Speaking of chasing you… he has a definite preference when you are ahead. When he catches up, he doesn’t seem to drive past you on a regular line. He will send but not drive ahead. So, we can use his reinforcement to help with that. He appears to be a foodie, so we can move the reward off your body to get him driving ahead more. 2 ideas for that:
* the treat hugger is great for throwing treats that he can grab out of the toy without you needing to open it! I have found that they work better than and are better liked than a lotus ball. We throw it when he picks up a line, rather than reward next to you
* have you tried a Manners Minder or Treat n Train with him? Foodie dogs often love it – and we randomly can click it and send him to it when he drives away (I just place it somewhere off to the side).Another thought on getting more speed: training sessions on lower bars to let him feel the joy of the wind in his hair. Full hard is hard – he isn’t that tall compared to the jumps! So, jumping the sequences at, say, 10 inches will make it easy to go fast while you build lots of reinforcement for driving lines, then we gradually inch the bars back up. I train my dogs all the time at much lower heights – partially to make it super fun for them, and partially because it makes the handling so much more challenging for me LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Wheee! The big yard is fun fun fun fun! First off… It is GREAT to have a dog that loves lines and then we add the finesse of turns. Yay!
His 1-2-3 commitment and his tunnel exits and commitment to the last jump all looked great!
So now we can focus on that “soft” turn over 3. A couple of ideas for you!First, a question: does he had a verbal for a soft turn (like “left”) – on the first couple of reps you used his name and that was too energetic and not informational enough. Then you went to check check – is that a 90 degree turn cue or a wrap? If it is 90 degree – perfect, use it. If it is wrap, we can save it for wraps and add a 90 degree turn cue. If it is a general collection cue… we will clarify exactly what it means.
In terms of reinforcement – you can add in more specific reinforcement for turns. When you stand still, and he doesn’t come (even if your cue is late), run the other way and then reward him for chasing you. If my cue is late, I am happy with 1 off course, but I do want the dogs to come back to me eventually 🙂 On the first rep, the cue was late and I think we can clarify how he sees that type of soft turn cue… but he wasn’t going to come back – so I don’t want him to then get a tunnel cue. We can keep it fast and fun while also saying “follow the momma!” by having you turn and go the other way, rewarding when he gets to you. When you did get the turn going on reps 3 and 4, you can reward right away from your hand rather than continuing, so that we shift value a little more to the turns (just a little more).
Thoughts about the soft turn cue (3-4 is what I consider a ‘soft’ turn because it is about 90 degree and not a wrap):
He seems to have a better understanding of the big decel & send that you did on reps 3 and 4 – YAY! Nice! Reward that specifically.
He seemed to not understand the turn cue as well when you were moving into it (reps 1 and 2), so let’s work specifically on that (because the handling choice is a good one, he just needs to learn it :))First, when you are moving into the soft turn cue like reps 1 and 2, take out the off course jump ahead – it was too tempting, too much of a distraction 🙂 Then, as he lands from 2: keep moving towards 3 like your did but decelerate more, and bring up your outside arm (left, in this case) to use as a gentle stop sign. So when he has landed, he is seeing deceleration – show him your stop sign then step away to the 90 degree line towards the tunnel: and reward the turn 🙂 Use your soft turn verbal too.
Alternate this with GO GO GO and reward straight.
When he is pretty good at going back and forth between those 2 cues, jump 4 can come back into the scene, but a little further away. And 2 concepts to show him when the jump is out there:
– the soft turn cue that you worked on with out
– also, a reverse spin so that he starts to read that turns can happen even when there is a lot of motion 🙂
And, mix in reps where he *does* go straight to that jump 4, so he sees the difference.When you are working at home in a smaller area, you can totally start this on 2 jumps, showing the difference between soft turn on 2 and go go go on 2 – and you can put a 3rd jump out there eventually or even a jump wing, which is also a good visual.
The rest of his commitment looks lovely, so we can focus on adding the soft turn understanding 🙂
Let me know what you think! Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning Nancy!
Those backside wraps are hard! I think they are actually one of the hardest turns in agility. On reps 1-2-3 where she had questions, a couple of ideas for you to help as you play with these:
Position: move your running line over to be heading to where the jump bar meets the backside wing (right at the jump cups) so she can see the whole backside wing. You will get there ahead of her a bit (which is perfectly fine), so stay there when you get there. You can turn a little bit sideways and use your arm and leg to step her around the wing, but don’t block the wing. I think you were blocking the wing here and pushing into her line, so she pinged away from you.
Connection: as you were sending her to the backside, you were looking forward and pointing forward, so that drew her attention up to you. Try to keep your eyes on her eyes so that she sees your shoulders pointing to the line (no need to point forward at all on these).
Timing: The key word here is patience (I hate that word hahahaha!!) When you get to position where the wing meets the bar, you can be a little sideways but you need to stay there until she is past you. You were trying to move forward too early and it pushed her off (and she shared her opinion hahahaa!) For now, stay there until she is passing the wing and has turned her head to the bar, then move forward (while maintaining connection).
On rep 4, you had the best position and most patience out of the 4 reps, so she got it, yay! Be careful of turning your shoulders to face the takeoff side of the bar too much, because that might end up looking like a slice cue.
The rest of the sequence looked awesome! Terrific running and connection 🙂 You were a little late on the RC cue on the 2nd rep for the last jump but then you nailed it on rep 4.
I found a video that shows a similar wrap on 3: (at :23, 1:08, 1:21), it is cued up to start at :23
Let me know if the visual makes sense – you can see that I am behind the wing, and since I get there ahead of the dog, I slow down and wait with connection (patience is SO HARD) and then when he is past me and looking at the wing, I take off again. Let me know if that makes sense!
Talk to you soon!
TracyGorgeous!!! She really appreciates the lower hands in terms of being able to see your upper body & connection. And you had a perfect running line 6-7, so she was super tight! She didn’t even have time to share her opinion there LOL!!! She barks a little on this, which is fine – But I think when she barks a LOT then we can clarify the info. I don’t mind barking, but it does gives us good information when the dog shares opinions 🙂 Great job on this run!!
Hi Janet!
>>You mentioned a “Zig Zag” drill in Barb’s post. I’ve never seen this drill. I kind of get it in context with the post, but can you explain in a little more detail what this exercise is teaching the dog, and what one should work towards with this exercise?>>
I like to give the dogs jump education. The zig zag drill is a jump grid, designed to help the dog understand how to execute the somewhat ‘sideways’ jumping that is required for slices, serpentines, and, in particular, threadle slices, backside slices and backside serps. Slicing is really hard for the dogs and that is where we see a lot of bars down. Many big dogs jump into the wing too – Barb’s youngster hit it with his shoulder, one of my big dogs used to do that too, and I have seen big dogs jump into it head-first. Eek!! Small dogs tend to NOT jump into the wing as much, I imagine it hurts more! But the smalls also need the jump education.
As you saw on the video clips (both mine and Barb’s) – we start off by showing the dog the general idea of ‘reading’ highly angled bars, even though his line is basically straight (it is a difficult visual for the dog). When that goes well, we progressively angle the jumps so the bars are “flatter” – and that is when you see the dog giving us more of a back-and-forth pattern (thus the name zig zag :)). We still want the dog to bounce these and not “patter” the front feet or add strides, so we can increase or decrease the distance to fit the needs of the individual dog (my 20″ dog gets a different distance than my 16″ dog).
The goal is that the dogs can bounce 5 jumps set up flat with wings touching/overlapping and the jump bars can go up to a medium height. This can take a couple of sessions, or weeks, or months! It is not intended to be done every day.
I *might* with some highly-angulated dogs, do the 3 jump grid with taller bars but that depends on the dog. In general, a lot of the grids can do more harm than good if we work them at full height.
This grid is also a good strengthening grid, so I whip it out as part of my conditioning program too.
The overall goal is that the understanding the grid creates transfers over into understanding how to approach and jump slice lines on serps, backsides, and threadle slices.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHey, good morning!!!! Great job getting these in, between bouts of rain haha!!!
Overall: these looked amazing. For real! 100% perfect connection. Great turns. You have clearly worked your skills to the point that they look great. My thoughts are below for each rep – I really only had a question about one element and that is more in the ‘nit picking’ department. These allowed us to see what the best timing is for getting those turns. Here are specifics:
1st rep – backside slice – very good! see if you can do it while you keep moving, so you can outrun her more across the backside bar. Less of a step to the backside should help you stay in motion, hwile maintaining your strong connection and verbal.
2nd rep – backside wrap – nice! Really excellent timing, rotation, connection. Click/treat for you!
3rd rep & 4th rep – both front side wraps – I think you are really cracking the code of her collection cues – very nice wraps here and I am impressed with how early you can cue them. Being able to get commitment while you cue early and leave is sooooo helpful with her speed! It keeps you way ahead. Nice connection and verbals here too.
5th rep – :21 – a rear cross – I am assuming you wanted the rear cross here, because it looked great 🙂 I couldn’t hear the verbal and it does look like you rewarded it. Very nice clear distinction between the FC wraps and the rear cross cue there.
6th rep – push to wrap: I loved this rep! Connection: perfect. You were so clear and early with the cues for both that you got great turns on both the backside and the front side wrap. Yesssss!
7th rep – at :29 the first cue on this one was not as clear as the others. Before she took off for 1, you had an arm up and were giving a verbal and started pulling away as she landed – based on that plus position, it almost looked like a threadle cue? but she took the front. Her turn was good and the 2nd wrap was good – but it is possible that it looks too much like a threadle cue and might impact threadling.
Rep 8 – same question as the 7th rep here at :38 (threadle versus wrap cues) – obsessing on it a little bit, the main difference is that your lower body rotation is later – at :38 you are rotating as she is taking off and she is taking off pretty far from the jump. On the other front-side wraps, you are rotating sooner and she is collecting better.
Really nice backside slice commitment AND jumping effort at :41 here! And gorgeous connection from you.Rep 9 – same question at :49 on the first wrap. I went back and compared the wrap handling here to the ones earlier like at :13 and :18 and you were rotated earlier on those, and I think the turns were better.
Rep 10: this wrap kind of split the difference with you going back to turning earlier. The turn was better here! And the RC at :55: niiiiiice!! That is developing into an incredibly strong cue for you and Tokaji!!!
Rep 11: both backside sends were lovely – and your timing on getting out of the send to the next cue (spin at :59, serp at 1:04) – terrific! After the spin, be prepared to turn sooner on the wrap to the next jump, you were a little late and it was really getting underway as she was taking off at 1:01. You’ll probably need to slow down as you exit the spin so you can start the wrap rotation earlier so she sees it before she passes you on the way to the jump.
On the backside serp at 1:04, you can try stepping one step less to the entry wing to see if you can get even further ahead of her exiting the slice, that will be useful for german turns and such.Rep 12:
Whoa this one was great fun to watch! Excellent push at 1:06, look at how early you turn and how that helps set up the collection she did over the bar!
That rear cross-to-blind cross at 1:08-1:09 was a Thing.Of.Beauty. For real!!! Great timing and you got the BC done and reconnected before she had any questions. What an *excellent* tool to get a nice turn without rushing and then still being able to stay way ahead of her. LOVED it!!!!Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
