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Good morning!
She is adorable! Where is she from? I love her and her spicy self LOL!!!!!I also love shaping sessions like these 2, thanks for posting both. The goal of this assignment wasn’t necessarily to train the pup, it is to train us humans and I think you nailed it in terms of making adjustments. Yay! I watched the 2 clips in order, taking notes, here is what I saw:
First clip:
Nice quick transition from the play into the shaping. She was on board to offer, you had her complete attention in a great way!
The barking is probably a combo of excitement + frustration – I think she offered a behavior she thought was correct but then read you the riot act when you didn’t reward it LOL!! (This, btw, also gives us good insight into her for future training, see below).
I admit to not being sure what the goal behavior was here, in terms of what you were wanting to shape based on the clicks. The first 2 clicks were when she was in a sit then moving front feet to be dropping down a bit – but then the placement was way up high from your hand so she jumped up for the treat. Then she offered the jumping up at :23 then got mad for not getting clicked haha! Thus the barking. Then she had to think it over with a sniff. She got some good clicks at the end for the sit with the front feet moving a bit as if starting to offer a down.Second session – You assessed the first session and totally changed everything about it (but kept the good play and transition before it) and BAM! Got the behavior. It looks like you were shaping a paw shake/give paw, yes? Great adjustments – you were low, the reward placement was better, you clicked a different paw motion. And she is SO STINKIN’ SMART that she got it immediately – and guess what? No barking 🙂 Yay! Click/treat to you for making the adjustment for a great session (I am guessing the sessions were done in the order they were posted here?)
So, general take-aways:
She is really smart and learns very quickly to offer that just-clicked behavior again very quickly. That means we gotta be really careful because the barking might come into play if there is not enough clarity. That is good to know about her! You can plan your sessions so that you make those first few reps ultra-clear (like you did in the 2nd video) and then break it off, assess, do the next session.About barking: barking is a complex thing in agility LOL! In general, if the dog is working and barking while maintaining their work… it is fine. They probably don’t even realize they are barking. For example, my Voodoo screams (literally, shrieks) while weaving at trials. He sounds like a teakettle exploding. But he also produces his best weave efforts *while* also shrieking, so I roll with it LOL! He is vocalizing but continuing to produced trained behavior, so the noise is likely a product of arousal and it is also probably reflexive (he doesn’t know he is doing it).
On the other hand… if he stops working and turns to bark at me – that is different. For example, at US Open when I was 20 feet behind him yelling GO ON GO ON in hopes he would keep going at the end of a course that needed him to be 40 feet ahead of me…. yeah, he turned and barked at me. Oopsie, I guess he doesn’t know how to Go On for more than 20 feet 🙂 It is a sign of frustration/not enough info/not enough clarity. I really don’t want that to happen, so I do my best to not build it in. And when it happens, I stop and clarify for the dog then make a note to train it with more clarity.
And with puppies – we will split things down so that she doesn’t feel the need to bark at you during training or shaping, as it appears to be a frustration behavior. (As a side note, if I want to teach a pup to bark on cue, I frustrate the pup to elicit the initial barking :)) Now, if she is doing a recall or toy races and vocalizing while executing it perfectly… no worries 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! Off to a great start 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
On the tug video:
>>Spot is normally a good tugger but we usually play a bit differently than you outlined – do some of those no no’s you talked about.
What are some of the things that you do differently? There are many ways to play and the pups give us feedback.
Watching the video, I think the first 2 toys were moving a bit too much and perhaps too short, meaning he couldn’t actually grab it and latch on. He was coming at them with an open mouth but then was kinda giving up because they kept moving out of reach. The third toy seemed to be his favorite so far (and it was nice and long!), plus you were not moving it as much, so he could really grab it. Yes to move the toy but also move them more slowly so he can grab it – 6 month old puppies aren’t always super quick to grab LOL!
Also, getting low to the ground here was better than standing up/leaning over, he was more engaged on the toys. It might be too soon to have the other toy so visible when trying to switch toys, especially the favorite toy – you can put it up on something or move to a different spot. We don’t want to tell him any uh ohs, we just want to make the new toy really exciting – and making the other toy disappear for now can help. It was a good choice to use the higher value toy when the food came out!
I don’t think the session went south, I think he started to fatigue by 2:18 and definitely he was toast by 3:06. It might not seem like a long time, but it was a long session for a baby dog especially if it was all one big session. You can keep sessions to under 2 minutes total with lengthy breaks (hours!) with baby dogs.The tricks video is looking good, it is great to have all sorts of tricks already in progress. One general suggestion with your tricks is to use the food like a toy. You can have him chase the cookie or move your hand around so he can get it, rather than delivering the food in a stationary position. That way food can be useful for both play and for stationary/precision training.
On the shaping video – this is a very cute behavior! Yay! A suggestion for starting the session: have the shoe (or any prop) be the very last thing that enters the picture, which will make it more salient in the environment. And by making it more salient, you are likely to get immediate interaction. The video started with the shoe already down and off to the side, so the most salient thing was you – so he started offering behavior involving you. The shoe was the least salient thing in the environment there. Switch it up to you getting the treats and toy ready with the shoe tucked away (armpits are very useful haha). Get yourself settled, cookies & clicker ready… then BAM down goes the shoe. I am 99% sure he will offer something on it immediately. That gets the behavior rolling a lot faster, which raises the rate of success and avoids any frustration.
2 other shaping ideas for you:
The clicks for looking towards it were all good, but you can use your placement of reinforcement more specifically. You were placing the treat near the shoe… feel free to place it right on the shoe or in the shoe for those early clicks. That will also get the behavior rolling more quickly. The clicks will mark successive approximations/little bits of the behavior, but the reward can be placed right where you want the end behavior. I think of placement of reward as: where would I put the treat if I was going to lure the behavior? I’d put it right in the shoe haha! But, since we aren’t going to lure it, we get a click for something then you can put the treat in the lure spot.Also, break off the session more often – he was toast by 2:21 which is normal for puppies. I find that going 2 minutes straight is mentally fatiguing for pups, so I suggest breaking it off after every 4 or 5 or 6 c/t or cookies. Lift the prop (or move away if it is too big to lift) Then have a play break, clear both of your minds, get more cookies out of your pocket – then the prop comes back in and shaping starts again. These breaks will lead to really crisp behavior, plus the breaks build in the excitement of the toy play. We don’t want shaping to be slow or ‘blah’ (scientific term haha) so I like lots of dance breaks to reload/reset and start again.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyI don’t think the dogs could see it in terms of it being a lure. They might’ve know it was there but it was pretty tucked into my armpit LOL! So it was pretty much a surprise reward.
TOmg 10 weeks old, post photos so we can all revel in the cuteness!!!! I am so glad he is blowing you away, he sounds fabulous!!!! Have a blast!!
TracyYay! Welcome!!!! Bostons are SO CUTE and sooooo fun!!!! I’m looking forward to more about Quinn 🙂
TracyAh! User error, I was looking for a youtube.com thing but it was the Spy titled gold link LOL!
This looks good! He’s truly lovely, I’m excited for you! A couple of ideas for you:
Try to keep him tugging as the other hand lifts the next toy – he wants to spit when a higher value toy comes up 🙂 and, when he drops the higher value toy, you can reward that with getting the toy back (he really likes the baby wubba and the long toy at the end :)). We don’t want to accidentally punish a nice ‘out’ by taking the toy away or presenting a lower value toy.
I suggest adding more long toys – that will help protect the flesh on your hands lol!
And he wasn’t all that enthused about the food in the presence of the toys, which is pretty normal for a BC. So be sure you have a ‘swallow’ criteria so he doesn’t just put it in his mouth (took him a few seconds to follow that first treat LOL!). And reward swallowing it with a tug game, to build more food value in the face of great toys 🙂
You can also make the food delivery more exciting, less stationary. Get him chasing your cookie hand a bit, that will also make the food exciting in the presence of the toys 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think it might sharpen your focus if you allow your mind to wander into the big outcome goals 🙂 Dream about pie in the sky great outcomes! Then put them away and think about performance goals to get you there.Because you prefer more time, we also should look at a speeding up your prep. Shorten your walk through process to 5 minutes then go into the visualizations and finalize your decision making. Make a decision, find the solution immediately, give yourself a time limit. Then go with it, and rehearse it as you are getting Lilu ready. You will often make the right decisions! Sometimes not! But speeding the process will be key. Pretend you are always first on the line and you’ll sharpen your process a lot 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyThis is great!! Toy play is excellent to mix into obedience, because it keeps the dogs pumped up and also serves as a great release of energy during precision training like healing. I’ve done some healing training with the tug toy stuffed into my left armpit, then dropped it to the dog as a reward 🙂
Sounds like you did a great job incorporating the toy play and she was a really good pup in class! Nice!!!!
TracyHmmm the link isn’t there, can you repost? I will look at the software to see how many times we can edit it 🙂 it is new and we are still figuring it all out.
Blood on the toy – ha! Time to whip out the super soft toys and also do more treat training til his mouth feels a little better. Does he like treats too?
TExcellent question!!!
Yes, you want to conclude the game before the pup leaves the game. I like to conclude the game, remove the toy, then have a chill moment with the pup if the pup is still really pumped up. You can pet the pup or go for a walk or leave the training area together. Or you could do mellow tricks for treats if the pup really needs a calming moment 🙂 some pups get really pumped up and don’t understand how to relax themselves, so we help them.
I don’t mind if my pup plays with toys with the other dogs, as long as it is safe and not over-arousal. So you might want to try relaxing the pup at the end of the session, leaving together then seeing if he still wants to party 🙂
Let me know how it goes!
TracyHa! It wasn’t weird to be bark-less because my dogs were all barking when you were talking to your puppy. Interestingly, they stopped barking when you were using the food… less exciting 🙂
I forgot about the injury! Continue to be right handed til your injury goes away!
I think the door has been paired into some arousal 🙂 No worries! It is a great baseline thing for other exciting things coming down the pike!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!! I am looking forward to seeing your BRAT+ in action 🙂 My pup, Hot Sauce, is a BRAT plus whippet and a couple of other terriers LOL!
If puppy cuteness isn’t reinforcing enough, we can find other things to keep you engaged 🙂 I am looking forward to your videos!!Tracy
Hi!
>> “focusing on many aspects of positive self-talk to perform at your peak and using self-talk to overcome fears, negativity and failure”. I usually do not have thoughts of “fear, negativity or failure”. Maybe the opposite, I am usually very relaxed, so I may need to get more excited and pumped up. I love doing agility because I love the training, going out, spending time with my dogs, and with friends. I love challenging myself, the competing allows me to do that. I trust my dogs and myself, so I am usually not nervous (like I was when I used to run Jetson hahaha). What about “I get excited when I am going to run my dog.”>>
Yes, maybe you are too calm and need to pump up a little more? Rather than thoughts of fear/negativity/failure, do you ever think about lofty outcome goals such as winning or world teams? Those thoughts can be as detrimental as negative thoughts, and just as distracting.
>>The more I think about it, the more I don’t know what else to write. I consider myself a very positive person, maybe too positive at times. Maybe I need higher goals?
Yes, go for the big goals in your affirmations:
* I am competitive against the very best handlers
* I run to winWhen you say “too positive at times” what do you mean?
>>About the lessons learned on Saturday with Manca’s courses. When I run Master Series Agility, there was a straight tunnel (#3), after I sent Lilu into the tunnel my mind wondered, I believe it is a consequence of not visualizing the dog taking the time in the tunnel, I have seen this before when you have asked us to compare our walk throughs vs. our actual runs. So my mind wondered, and then I was not 100% sure what was next, thus my error on 5-6. I think I just spent time waiting for Lilu to come out of the tunnel instead of getting into position to handle the next obstacles.
This is interesting! Didn’t something similar happen at Cynosport?
>>Also, I keep finding out that those specific obstacles or steps that are not 100% defined/clear in my visualization is where I make mistakes, like in the 11-12, I know I visualized connecting with her exiting 11, but then my handling at 12 was not 100%, so then another mistake. This is also not new. I remembered that at Cyno I made an effort to visualize connecting after single obstacle,
So you need to plan/rehearse/visualize more than just connecting – connect while giving the next cue, seeing her respond, then giving the next cue, and so on.
>>but then I had a lot of time between the walk through and the actual run, which I don’t have at a local show (excuses?).
I think it is partially a short term versus long term memory issue. It is all a matter of how you use your time 🙂 When you have a short amount of time, you need to visualize while you are getting the dog, warming up, etc. If you have hours and hours before the run, you need to visualize at least 2 or 3 times each hour to keep it ‘fresh’ in your mind.
Which do you find easier: short time before the run, or long amount of time?
>>With the visualization exercise from Day 1 “Mental Prep training Part 1”, I learned that even though I need to visualize routine tasks that I do on a daily basis (which I first I thought it was going to be easy), I am not paying attention to details. For example, if I visualize myself getting out of bed, I forget to turn on the lights, or something simple. So it has been a very good experience and I have been trying to practice it more often (but still 1-2 mins, not yet 5).>>
This is important and it goes along with the stuff you mentioned above about missing details or your mind wandering. A new affirmation for you:
* I pay attention to ALL the detailsAnd it is a good run reminder: pay attention to the details in the walk, in the visualizations, and in the run! And on the run, I think you did forget that she had to do the whole tunnel LOL! So you ended up standing there and then got behind which resulted in the off course. One of the things we do with small dog handlers is have the handlers gauge their running lines, so they don’t get too far ahead and so they don’t stand still (small dogs hate that LOL!). So you need to add the detail of gauging your line: don’t send to everything because tunnels take time. Run in and run out of them so you can be moving and in a great position.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Tracy
Hi Mary! I thought Hammer was insanely cute, and now you show up with Wolfie! OMG!!! Cute factor = 8 zillion!!!!!! Seriously, Corgi puppies are adorable 🙂
On the first tugging video:
>>, I’ve been using this little spare bedroom as the place where we have been practicing some baby obedience stuff, like taking the dumb bell, etc., and I’ve been using only food in here.
So she had made a pairing in the room being associated with food, which made it a little harder to get the toy play. When bringing toy play into an environment that might already have a food association or after she gets a treat, you can get that toy crazier – your second toy here was nice and long and attached to something, so you can really swing it around and get her chasing it (like you did at 2:05) or you can get up, run to a new spot, get her chasing it or you can throw it. I like moving puppies away from the cookie spot after they get a treat, to get the pup out of the pool of scent and to get the toy and pup moving (which is generally more engaging). You can also use just one ultra-boring treat then bring the toy back out 🙂 She did really well with the toy at the beginning and then she did really well getting back on it at the end (she seemed to really like chasing it when you were moving it around and making silly noises :))
On the 2nd video: These are all perfect things to shape with a baby pup! My main feedback on all 3 is to keep your hands still 🙂 She appears to be really food motivated, so she will watch your hands if they are moving and come towards your hands. So keep your hands totally still and let her offer 🙂 Then get one hand in for a reward then back out then stationary again. That will really help get behaviors rolling for now as she learns to offer behavior when she sees food rather than come towards your hands.
Getting on the bowl is going well, we will be expanding that soon! For all 4 feet in a bowl, I suggest a bigger bowl 🙂 so she can easily get all 4 feets in without having to do much compression to do it. The sports vets/PTs are advising against too much compression nowadays.
Also, when she is in a stationary position (on or in the bowl for example) you can start adding in a release word to get her out. It can be your regular stay release, or it can be a ‘get it’ style release if you are going to toss a treat. Adding it now will help us ‘install’ the cue for when we want it even more 🙂
Great to see her get right back on the toy – excellent choice of toy and you immediately got it swooshing around, so she immediately chased it. YAY!!!!
Nice work!
Tracy
