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Hi!
The Minny Pinny looks good! He is slipping a bit on the mats – do you have snow on the ground outside? It will be better footwork if he can do this on grass (or maybe bring it to OTR for the turf?)Adding the verbals went great! One suggestion: as he is going around the setup and you are saying the verbal, have him finish the left turn to end up between you and the wings (he will end up perpendicular to the center bump.) That way the final left or right verbal is associated with the turn on the last bump too.
I think you were moving away to brace yourself for impact when you were delivering the toy. That is admirable LOL!! Since he is a big dude and comes in hard for the toy, you can present it across your body with the hand that sent him around the wings to draw him through the final turn… but then let go so he grabs it and so he can keep going (without wrenching your shoulders or his neck). Then you can ask hi to bring it back to tug with it (or trade for a second toy).
The stays looked good! He did a great job holding the stay even in the an arousal state that certainly seemed higher!!!
At the beginning, it definitely looked harder for him to line up with the toy present! Slightly slower response, and his position was more angled (to watch the toy, perhaps :)) You can use food to help with that for a couple of reps, then we can fade the food again so it is delivered sometimes but not part of the cue.
He was looking at the toy really well when you put it down – you can release when he looks at it. Since we don’t want to pair the release with the toy hitting the ground, you can add in some praise to bridge that time – if he looks at it then looks back at you, wait til he looks back at it. He might also really like having a verbal cue to look at it. We can easily add that using that ‘fold it in’ game on the cone – add a verbal cue (sometime like “focus”) just before you indicate he should look at it. He is a verbal dog, I bet he learns it super fast.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
><<And pressure is not necessarily a bad thing 🙂 but we need to be careful to not let it tip over into overarousal/negative stress feelings.>> I am getting the sense that you feel this tipped a bit into the negative feelings category. I admit to being worried about that too. I am seeing how it that possibly happened due to the failures. In this case, where do you think the threshold of too many variables to be keep him mentally “safe” was breeched?>
Negative feelings can be cumulative (unless there is a traumatic event). We often don’t see that it has tipped over into stress until it accumulates over a session or two or three. Without electrodes and blood tests, we can fully say how he was feeling about it. But we can observe expression of behavior. Sometimes slowing down/changing gait can be the tip-over? But sometimes that is working through challenges.
So to protect the dogs, I live by that 2 failure rule. And I have gotten really really good about politely advocating for the dog in the session if asked to do something that might cause more than the 2 errors (or something that will 100% produce errors). Sometimes we don’t know that there are too many variables or there might be something the dog sees that we do not. But the expression of behavior (2 failures!) will tell us so we can dial it back.
I also think that fading props is better than removing props – what I mean by that is if a prop goes in (jump bump, weave wire, reward target, MM, etc) then it needs to be moved out slowly and not just taken away. Splitting things into small pieces is good for shaping behavior and for changing variables too!
A lot of this is not what we think of as ‘dog training’ in the traditional sense – that is generally falling into the construct of operant conditioning. But nothing in the brain happens in a vacuum, so operant conditioning cannot be separated out from all of the other processes. It is really cool stuff!
>Totally agree about how expensive weaves are. I thought limiting to 6 max would help but maybe still too many – I am sure fatigue was a big variable here.>
Something that is hard about seminars that focus on an obstacle skill – 6 total reps then a break is great! But we tend to do far more than that, then the dogs get fatigued as we are trying to add challenge. Something I learned from being a student at flyball seminars: the box turn training is very physically and mentally expensive… so each turn has approximately 5 total reps of it. Then an hour or so later, maybe another 5 reps. I’ve been applying that to agility training and it has made a big difference!
And when I need to train things like ignoring crowds, etc – I train the concept on less expensive behaviors (like cookie recalls) because that transfers very easily to the harder behaviors.
>I love how you find the nicest ways to say “that was a really bad choice, I feel bad for your dog now”. >
Ha! Not at all! I don’t feel badly for the dogs, we are just trying to figure out what they are saying. I am just trying to translate what might be happening 🙂
>II am not sure why I can’t take my day job attitude and apply it here! LOL!
It is hard! And then I feel a bit guilty about speaking up. So many emotions in the human brain. We are not of the generation where it was ok to question instructors.
>I was certainly surprised when she took the MM away. Now I have big regrets on how I handled this. I will do better next time. Plus, 99.99% of the time if he misses the weaves he still gets cookies and we do reset tricks and cookies all the time, so he probably wondered what was happening here. >
No regrets needed! Just learning – he had opinions for sure!
>Now I feel terrible that I couldn’t step back enough to see this more clearly in the moment. I guess I can only hope that the hundreds of previous experiences of always having positive association even through failures will be enough to overcome this experience.>
Don’t feel terrible! It was informative! And yes, all of the positives will keep this a positive too! There was no trauma 🙂 And yes, I have heard of agility seminar presenters suggesting traumatic things after an error, heavy duty punishments – that is where a single event can really make things negative.
>I thought about this part a lot!! I totally agree that they are not the same and yet certainly there must be a a relationship there.>
Yes – there is a relationship because nothing happens in a vacuum… but resilience and effort/moivation operate within 2 different physiological systems. Resilience operates within the HPA axis (cortisol, for example) and effort/motivation operates within the dopamine reward systems (and is related to movement). So we can still see a dog being really stressed and not resilient… but still making an effort to keep moving (cough cough border collies sometimes cough cough 😁)
> But do you think that increasing motivation via a reward (or expectation of a reward) can have an effect on the ability to recover from a stressor?>
Expectation of the reward is not actually what increases motivation – no dopamine spike when the reward is applied as expected (we do have studies with electrodes for this 😁) It is the unexpected that can increase (or decrease) motivation – better than expected reward? Dopamine spike! (Followed by dopamine going away, which is actually a bit painful and what actually builds the motivation – it is complex!) More motivation is likely. Less than expected? Dopamine drop out… not a good feeling, physiologically (like last night when Larry The Rental Whippet tried to steal ice cream from the counter, ended up in the sink – definitely NOT the expected outcome and he was horrified LOL!!🤣😂) I am guessing there was a dopamine drop out in that moment.
Delivering a toy or treat as expected can be good for rehearsal (of mechanics, for example) and can also make the whole thing feel good (classical conditioning). So does the good feeling help with resilience? I am sure there is a link between because it also has to do with arousal states, etc. That link is harder to know because it also involves genetics, environment, etc. And resilience can take a few days.
So back to Larry Whippet and the sink… he is pretty resilient because as soon as I rescued him from the sink (after photos of course) he was back to normal happy self very very quickly. It was a good bounce back from the unexpected.
>Maybe it’s more technically correct (??) to say what I was attempting to do was actually to desensitize to the environmental situation. As in, trying to get the amygdala less likely to hijack the system based on practice/exposure to a situation that might be hard but can still have victory. >
Yes, counterconditioning and desensitization are definitely a thing! And they live more in the classical conditioning world. They don’t need any type of operant wins to happen is the associations are in place (but can go sideways if the operant conditioning goes sideways).
>Thus, next time there is this type of pressure present, the subject is not as likely to be stressed. What do you think of this a it relates to this example? >
I think it depends on the scenario and the individual. Counterconditiong and desensitization is a lengthy process starting below threshold (we agility people are not so good about starting below threshold LOL!) Plus there is the processing element – it is possible that the learner develops avoidance of the situation rather than confidence. So proceeding slowly is always good, to help us see what is happening. It would be cool to have electrodes and other instruments to tell us what is happening in real time, but that is not realistic 🙂 so we look at cumulative expressions of behavior. I agree that it is REALLY fascinating!!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>WHOA! I didn’t understand that was what was possible in UKI! So we step inside the ring with a helper and do our volume dial tricks & take the first jump and then run back to the helper (“let’s go!”) and get the toy and then take more jumps?>
Yes – the helper rule in UKI is fabulous!!! You can leave the toy with the helper (or the helper can enter the ring separately so she doesn’t know there is a helper) and the helper can assist with delivery. I have used a helper to convince my dogs to GO ON for those huge ending lines (rather than look back at my sorry self running miles behind them haha) – the helper entered the exit, the dogs didn’t know she was there… and when I cued the dogs to GO GO GO, she threw the toy for them as soon as they looked ahead. They were shocked, happily hahahaha
>We tried again today and she was really good about dropping the leash when it was unclipped.>
She was so funny with the bowls – she would eat the cookie, look up at you… then start heading for the next bowl LOL! “I know this game, mom!” Hahaha.
For both girls, you can mix in having them do this while you remain stationary (up and down near your feet) for places where you won’t have room to go back and forth.
She did great with dropping the leash! She almost re-grabbed it, but your body language basically said “that’s not what we are doing now” and she was fine with that 🙂 You can also add in tossing the leash away rather than putting it in a pocket, to prepare for any UKI or USDAA you might eventually do.
You might find that letting go of the leash is harder when she is more stimulated, so you might wait a few extra seconds for her to do it – but that is fine! It is a form of arousal regulation.
>BRILLIANT progression!!! THANK YOU!!!>
Well, we will see if Bazinga agrees if it is a good progression or not LOL!!
Have fun this weekend! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>“Whos’ there?” will totally work! But that is a crazy-bark-at-the door-bark is that ok? Maybe I can transition it to Who’s ready? Once we get going!>
Yes, it is probably going to be a crazy bark at first, which will transform into a demand bark (because she will quickly figure out that she gets cookies LOL)
> maybe she needs some pick-me-up snacks & hydration! I’m going to think about what I can do since she’s on a prescription diet.>
You can bring a bit of her food and feed her a small meal to see if it helps. And you can also get her to drink a bit more than usual – I ‘load’ water by putting stuff in it to help them drink, even if it is dropping a kibble into it so they fish it out like bobbing for apples. It still gets a bit more drinking 🙂
>This made me think about what our routines are in the house. I have treats on the counter and the dogs report there for “treat-duty” whenever they come in from going potty and Frankie really goes there whenever she feels like she has performed something “treat-worthy” during the day. Maybe this is reinforcing that need to be right near the treats?!>
Treat duty! I love that! I think the context is different and also they are doing things away from the treats to earn them (and there are no treats present when they do that, right?) so I think treat duty is fine and can continue as is 🙂
>I’m going to shake that up a bit. My first thought is to make them move away from the treats and do a trick & then go back to give them their treat. Also maybe I need multiple places with treats in the house, so there is not 1 major location?>
Yes – you can specifically work on it as a ‘move away to do a thing’ game. And also yes, I think doing it in different rooms is a good thing to help it generalize. You can let them see you put it in a spot (reward station) and then move away to do something with them. This simulates entering the ring at a trial, theoretically.
>That takes some of the pressure I put on myself that I’m asking her to do something she doesn’t want to do. Frankie most certainly will only do what she wants to do. Heh.>
Yes, she is free to walk away! I don’t think we are being coercive because you are not dragging her around by the leash, and you are not showing her massive chunks of food in the ring to get her to do it. I feel like what we are trying to do is change her feeling in the ring from “ok fine” to “Heck yeah!!!!!”
>I tried this today to see what she did. I probably should unclip the leash before I put her down though. I think she gave me pretty good attention. What do you think?>
She has already improved immensely about leaving her food outside the ring and going through the gate!!!! Yay!
She seemed to give “This is different” vibes when you picked her up base on her facial expression but then the ring entry went well. Her focus was great as you stuck the leash in your pocket and the run went well too!
I wonder if unclipping the leash and shoving it in your pocket before you put her down will help speed the transition from putting her down to starting the run? I think that will need to be as fast as possible in the trial ring. You were not slow here, but the faster you can get her running in the ring, the better, perhaps – so she doesn’t start to think about other things while you are putting the leash away.
My only suggestion from the video is that you can stand up more in the “ready ready” section before entering the ring, so she can jump up and move towards you (if she wants to). Leaning over a to limits her movement, and keeping her moving a bit can be a good thing for keeping her in a higher arousal state.
Keep me posted on how everything goes this weekend! Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
I am loving the transition of line up to collar grab at the start of the reps!
The rocking horses went best when you were closer to the barrel for the rotation – that was when she was able to commit (more forward motion helped commit her too!) The frisbee being fully visible (and sometimes witching from hand to hand, which draws her attention to your hands) made it harder so if there was a handling question, she went right to the friz 🙂 The two spots she had questions were at :12 and 1:27 – on both of those, you were further from the barrels – and without decel to support her moving forward, it was a bit of slamming on the brakes so she didn’t commit.Now, we totally want her to be able to commit from a little further away, so try adding 2 things:
decel before the rotation, and shifting connection from her eyes to the barrel as she passes you.Scrunching up the frisbee a little more and keeping it in the same hand can help too! You did a good job clarifying of the ‘bite’ marker, but she does get it sometimes on praise too, so making it a little less in front of her can help her ignore it for now.
The threadle slice game is going well too! She is coming in to the threadle slice really well! Stays are looking good too! Great job with all of the stay rewards – the hand moving into position can easily become the release, so definitely keep rewarding the stays.
Only one suggestion:
The reward target (or friz throws) for the threadle slices should be placed on the other side of the bump (same side she starts on), so after coming to the threadle hand, she goes over the bump to get her reward. That will help get the automatic in-then-out behavior for the threadles.>had x rays done because I’ve had some concerns about her rear end development. All good but she is still growing and will be for a while!>
I saw your FB post on it – I am glad she is all good! Yay! And I didn’t comment on the FB post because I started to type something snarky about how her growth plates were not closed and so many people out there were already running baby dogs on courses at this age…. but I stopped myself hahahahaha
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>We had a fun weekend last weekend where we went on something like 3 off leash walks (which also includes 1-2 hours in the car round trip for each one), so Checkie was a little brain dead and we mostly took a little break for brain cells to recover>
That sounds like a lovely balance for regular life 🙂 Fun!!!!
>also more attempts at pivoting on the perch, we got a few times where he moved a rear foot but mostly he wants to sit even with me kneeling, so I will keep playing with that.>
If you are getting sitting, you can use the ‘pivot-back-to front’ approach by tossing a treat to the side and early rewards delivered for the first moment he comes backto the perch in front of you. Fast treats being tossed or delivered then tossed will help him not want to sit (and if he sits, toss a treat to the side) because there is a response cost that makes sitting ‘expensive’ when the cheap and easy route to the reward is standing and pivoting 🙂
Barrels – super nice, especially your connection at the exit of the FC to set up the next send. Lovely! You can add in wrap verbals if you were not already using them, he is ready for them!
Threadle wraps: I think the main thing to get the mechanics easier here would be to get his eyes off your hands – even with the tossed treat, he is still tracking it from your hands 🙂 Adding a visual target like a bowl on the other side of the barrel will help get his eyes off of your hands. The bowl can start just on the other side of the barrel so he does a 180 on the turn away, then you can work the bowl more and more around the barrel til he is doing the complete circle.
The mechanics were smoother on the 2nd video here for sure, nice jbo with the low and slow hands on both sides! He is waitinf for the hand cue to tell him to turn away, so you can get that more automatic turn away with the bowl as the visual target. It is pretty easy to fade as soon as he turns his own head away 🙂The head turns are looking really good!!! I think latent learning has kicked in here – he seemed to have no questions on the right turns (first side in the video) – your hand cues were nice and quick and he nailed it. He had one question when you switched to the left side, so you slowed the cue down for a moment… then he had it. Yay!!! So now you are ready to go to the advanced level here, which brings the barrel back in and turns this into the backside circle wraps.
Backside slices – This is going well too! The arm position on these is tricky – small dog connection is tricky! We want to be connected but if we are too connected, it looks like a threadle slice cue (where the shoulder comes all the way back and rotates our upper body towards the dog). For the backside slices, your arm can be pointing more to his nose along the line we want him to travel, and not as far back behind you – in the cases where he ended up on the front, it was a bit too far back and that opens your shoulder up like a threadle slice cue. One way that I think of that arm position is that a connection arm stays in line with my torso, and a threadle slice arm goes back to behind my bum 🙂
>And then we did the threadle slice vs serp where I VERY confidently said my threadle WRAP cue LOL LOL. I mean he did it anyway based on my body language, but, sigh. He is so good.>
They learn to save us LOL! And I do a lot of planning of my verbals before each rep (and even then, sometimes the wrong things come out LOL!)
On the video, he did well with the compare and contrast of the threadle versus serp! I think he was a bit surprised on the first threadle rep, possibly assuming it was automatically going to be the front side of the jump again, but then after that he was like “got it! I need to watch the cues!” and he was perfect 🙂 Do you have wings, or another barrel? You can add wings to the jump now, which adds a bit of complexity to the game.
>>Sometimes when it’s so clearly MY mechanics that are the problem (ok so like 99.9% of the time), I struggle to stop because I want to keep working on it, naughty brain. >
Will one of your other dogs step up to help out, so Checkie can get a break? My adult dogs are always happy to judge my mechanics and offer feedback 🙂 That way you can keep going and then come back later to add the pupster in 🙂
> (Also, to be completely honest, having the motivation to do ANY THING after you know what happened on Monday has been a little tough for me, so trying to focus on happy puppy and happy human with the training stuff)>
This is entirely relatable. It has been a brutal week and it is only Thursday morning. I have been watching every episode of ER in order this week instead of watching the news or anything. And cleaning the house! I love a clean house (but hate to clean hahahaha). My plan is to hit the lottery and buy an island somewhere and move all of us to it. That seems like the best option right now, hopefully you, your mom, and your crew are available to join us!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
Good for you for seeing the shift in value and working on it here! It was hard for me to see when he was looking straight for the right turns at the beginning, but those seemed easy for him. It was much easier to see on the left turn side 🙂 and those seemed harder – he had to take a moment to process the cue before releasing.
Since we were talking about all the darned words to remember… You probably don’t need to say ‘dish’ here – I mean, you can, but the context cues him going to the dish and the marker is coming after he is heading to it anyway 🙂 About the context: I can’t think of a time where we would cue a behavior, and the correct response takes him directly to a place reward – and we would NOT want him to take the reward. That seems rude LOL! In this case, the correct response takes him to the bowl with the cookie in it, so I don’t think we would want him to stop or run over it, if you don’t say ‘dish’. That can cause some uncertainty. Let me know if that makes sense!
>I also did the barrels farther apart but screwed up my video on that. It went well. I was able to stay in the center, he had fun and I think I only gave the wrong directional once. I did keep my toy in my pocket and that was fine. Got the Tug cue out on time once. baby steps…>
The best sessions happen when we forget to turn on the camera hahaha I am glad it went well!! And you can use your time during tugging to plan the verbals for the next rep. I am glad the toy in the pocket was easy – the tug cue is probably an important one to add in, so he doesn’t grab it before you are ready (ouch!) and because the toy is not automatically on his line (no context cues to help us out).
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
Minny Pinny – this went well – it was easy for him! Great job with the reward placement!
Since he likes to circle, don’t make this into any kind of loop. Meaning, break off to play with a toy after each rep, then reset at your side so you can send him forward to the next rep. No need for him to turn away into the minny pinny here, it starts with him moving forward to it for now.For the next steps, add in the bumps for each wing and you can also add in your left or right verbals by holding his collar, saying the verbal 3 or 4 times, then letting him go (while you keep saying your verbal).
The stays are going well too! A few ideas on things to add:
More arousal! Toy play before! He is doing well, so you can prep him for doing stays when he is in a higher arousal state by playing tug! You can also play music to change the external environment a bit.He was great when the toy or prop was on the ground. You can release him when he is looking at the toy or the prop rather than at you, as this will bubble over nicely into forward focus on the first jump.
You can also mix in removing food from the line up moment: cue the line up with an empty hand and don’t always give an immediate treat, so he is just as happy to line up without it and he is with it 🙂
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Rep 1 – No treats in the lotus tug or my pockets for the first sequence. Some sass for the line-ups, but she was a pro at ignoring Beth as the pushy leash runner. You can’t see it but she was great about shoving her head through the leash loop at the end even though it was right where Beth was standing (I think she thought I was doing another rep and was surprised I cued the leash after 2 short sequences. LOL!)>
This went great! The leash running was Oscar-worthy, pretty exactly what she will see at a trial. It seems like she was kind of looking at her between jumps 1 and 2, but carried on and did really well on the sequence. The lotus-tug-to-food-box seemed to go really well! And the 8 inch jumping looked strong too.
2nd run – also went well, with plenty of environmental challenges. The sequences were simple, which is great to offset the other challenges she was seeing. She was definitely watching the ‘judge’ walk towards the front of the ring and couldn’t quite line up! And then before the 2nd run in this session, she was circling a bit and couldn’t quite line up… I have seen that a lot in herding breeds after the first rep and before the 2nd rep. It is like they are saying “I need a moment here!”. So, you can give her the moment – if food is available, a back and forth pattern game has been perfect for getting the pups ready to go again. If food is not available, getting her to bark can do the trick 🙂
One little blooper at 1:38 where she missed jump 1. I think that was a processing thing, typical inexperienced dog moment: she was still processing her arousal and the people in the ring, and there was not enough time after the reconnection before the release (less than a second from when you fully reconnected to when you said ‘jump’). She was watching you lead out and probably processing stuff, so you can reconnect, point to the jump and be connectd for a few more seconds so she can look at it before releasing.
It is SO QUIET in there during that second turn… can you ask people to as least talk amongst themselves? Another option is to bring the noise yourself – I bought an Echo Dot thinging, so I can play music or podcasts (through the phone to the Dot speaker) and add noise to the library-like environment LOL! It is often on sale for $25 but also, any portable bluetooth speaker can work!
One other thing I see here is it looks like she is pacing rather than trotting (you can see it 1:10-1:13). It is a little hard to see because she wears blacks socks LOL but I don’t recall her pacing – it is possible with the cold and snow and spay recovery, she is tight or out of whack (that is the medical term haha) so a chiro or massage visit might be good. My dogs just went to the chiro and massage people and they were all out of whack thanks to winter. Sigh.
>Not sure why I haven’t noticed this before, but Lift does need some time to settle down inside. Thanks to pattern games and asking for tricks she can walk down the aisle past other dogs & people, but she’s pretty amped up at first.>
This makes sense, in terms of what is happening with her physiology. Excitement, stress, being hungry 🙂 etc.
> She can handle going into the ring about 5min after coming inside if she has to, >
Great!!
>but she’s more relaxed after her first turn or if she has time to hang out in a crate for a bit. >
The first run probably gets some endorphins flowing and cookies in her belly. And hanging out in the crate lets her habituate to the environment, perhaps? You can try adding in a sniffle mat *before* the first run when she has to go into the ring pretty soon after coming inside.
>So I’m writing this here to help remind me that I should take her out for her potty break before I walk a course (especially if she is early in the class) so that she can have more time to acclimate to being inside the building.>
Perfect!!! Good self-reminder for time management!
>. The value building with tossing a treat went really well, but then I discovered a hole to address – she’s so into the Pet Tutor that she doesnt’ want to leave it (of course the stupid thing sometimes randomly spits out an extra treat after the fact – way to be variably reinforcing!).>>
Ha! Darned Pet Tutor! LOL! Yes, keep working on basically reducing the value of it 🙂 You can simultaneously keep working the 2x2s using an empty bowl to toss treats into, or really early cookie tosses.
>Yes – USDAA starters courses are often baby-dog friendly as long as you don’t have a huge-striding young dog! Jan Skurzynski is the judge in March and I’ve always liked her relaxing manner and her courses.>
I have heard really good things about her! And as the owner of a huge-striding young dog (Ramen :)) I have found that USDAA judges are very happy to receive input about how they set the course and make adjustments, so feel free to speak up! I have done 2 USDAA trials this year and politely spoke to the judges about several sections that were honestly gross for young dogs (I didn’t say it like that LOL!!) and they judges were happy to tweak it to make the sections really lovely. I am not sure UKI would be as good with that, but also their yardages are better in general.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>>I’ll try this sequence again. I was really impressed that she turned from 4 to take 5! Wahoo! I see what you mean about me looking ahead at 1:14. Thank you. So I should be showing Exit Line Connection at that position/time as soon as she is showing commitment to taking jump 5?
Two things on this one:
-from the handling perspective, you can be looking at the landing side of the jump as you move through the serp (to help commit her), then the exit line connection after the blind.-from the training perspective, you can work on NOT having to look at the landing side by throwing her reward to the landing side as you run through. That can build up even more independent commitment, so she will come take the jump without needing as much connection support.
>>Thank you! I’ll try this! And start randomly doing this and work on it. I’m working on taking off the leash being a cue to stop tugging. I am terrified that we are going to be at the line & she won’t let go of the leash! LOL>
Well, it might take her a few seconds – 5 seconds might feel like 3 hours to you, but it won’t be long at all. Plus it is great arousal regulation to have her let go of it. That will tell you how ready she is for her run.
>I currently carry Frankie’s leash (pocket) so we don’t have to worry about a leash runner distracting her. I have also been carrying it with Bazinga so I can be sure to catch her at the end! I can keep carrying it, if it is a motivator & getting to have a “toy” in the ring. I do think she’ll be fine with me throwing the leash too but I guess I can play around it with & go with what works best as we get going.>
>Well, it is totally legal in AKC to do that, so I have no problem with her seeing you stuff her leash into you pocket. And yes, she might think it is her toy and that is also perfectly fine 🙂
>We have a 2 day trial this weekend!
Keep me posted!!!
>Then our next event is your seminar!!!! I am so excited to meet you & for you to meet Bazinga!!!
I CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!
>> We haven’t done a start line stay yet.
Maybe for this weekend, pick a run and ask for a stay. You can ask for it in the middle of the ring so it is further from distractions, if that might be a challenge.
>Do we keep working on more consecutive obstacles if there is a good line?
When we start doing In & Out will we want to do more than 1 run in a day? I feel like she may be disappointed if we leave after 1 jump.>Yes, and also yes 🙂 The in and out will be best in places where you can run over, get the reward, then go back in (UKI and USDAA). And after you get the reward, come back in with it. In UKI, have someone stand just inside the ring with the toy to give to you so you are not leaving the ring to get it (it is against the rules to leave the ring, but totally within the rules to have a helper give it to you in the ring :))
>We are not ready to add weaves at a trial. We are on 6 + 4 for weaves, but I am also working on fading out the MM with the weaves and that is making things harder. I may go back to just 4 poles and work on fading the MM and then work up to 6 poles again.>
Have you tried tucking the MM in behind a wing so she can kinda see it? Then we keep fading it by moving the wing further away, and then make it a jump with the MM behind a wing, then you mix in throwing a reward rather than using the MM.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>>She will bark at the gate when she is really excited. How do I put it on cue and get her to do it without treats?
The first step is to get her to bark elsewhere in life, then give her what she is barking for. It can be getting her to bark for her treats or meals, or to go out the door, or if your doorbell rings. You can use ‘trigger’ phrases – examples would be something like “READY READY READY” or “are you hungry?” or “who’s there?” and then those become cues. At first, she can totally have treats for it 🙂 but then it is really easy to fade because barking can be somewhat self-reinforcing 🙂 Apologies in advance for any extra barking in regular life LOL!
>>You can mix in marking that moment where she comes through the gate by running back to rewards! Make it variable and random mixed in with marking various spots on course. She totally knows where the treats are! Her brain is probably split: thinking about the treats and thinking about the agility. You can do this variable schedule of running out for rewards at trials too: run out just for entering the ring! I recommend UKI or USDAA for that, much less expensive LOL!>
>When we do this at a trial, would I do that for 1 class & then stop? Or would I do this randomly for 1 class and then do FEO and even run for real in other classes of the day? >You can randomize it, mix it all up!
>>Are the dogs disappointed that they don’t get to run?>>
This is a GREAT question. I think Frankie probably wouldn’t be disappointed. Bazinga might think it is weird. But their drive for food is so high that I think they would both be happy to eat 🙂
>For the last 8 months or so, I have been doing 1 FEO run as the first class of the day (Time to Beat or FAST) and then run Jumpers & Standard & sometimes Premier for real. Sometimes if there is a games or premier class in the middle of the day, I’ll do FEO there too to keep her guessing. I find that the first “real” run after FEO is her best and she slows each consecutive run after. But it has really helped her engagement in the ring. Maybe this alone is not enough or the right way to help change her feelings.>
I think the slowers runs might be happening for several reasons:
The first FEO run is super fun and the bubbles over into the next run. And those runs are both likely at a higher energy time of day for her (I can TOTALLY relate to this!).Then later runs: she probably predicts there is no reinforcement in the ring, plus they might come at a more settled or even tired time of day.
So you can mix in more FEO runs throughout the day to surprise her. And, you can do things to keep her energy levels higher across the day. Usually finding a quiet place for her to sleep is very helpful. Making sure she is hydrated and also giving her blasts of protein too – all of those can help her out a lot (since we can’t give dogs caffeine hahaha)
>>Getting her to bark and spin and do that stuff as she moves into the ring without needing to see treats in your hands will also be very valuable. Treats can be the cues for those behaviors, so we want to be able to get the behaviors without treats in your hands or pockets.>
>Obvious question, how do I transition this? Go to no treats on me, but have them nearby & transition to further & further away from the treat location? We are kind of doing this with the remote reinforcement games where we put the treats down at a station & move away & get engagement/ask for a trick & say “let’s go!” and return for a treat. Just keep transitioning this & ask for the bark?>That is exactly right – with the remote reinforcement games. You can do this in different rooms in your house, not just in the agility context. My guess is that treats are part of the cue to do agility, which is part of why it is so hard to do it without food present in the ring.
>>Question:
Does she like being carried? Have you played with mixing in carrying her into the ring?>
>I used to always carry her in & she is ok with that, but then I felt like I needed to let her opt-in before we got into the ring. >Opt-ins are tricky, because arousal changes can change what they look like. When my Voodoo is MOST ready to run, for example, he doesn’t want to do tricks or look at me or get petted… he just wants to go in and setup. When Ramen is most ready, he trembles (Whippets are interesting LOL!) Will she jump into you arms as the opt-in? Or, another opt-in can be when you put her down and/or take the leash off… does she face you? She might like being carried in as social support.
And of course she can opt-out at any time by leaving when the leash comes off.
> Carrying her was better for positionng her where I wanted her on the line – hahah. With letting her walk in, I kind of know what to expect from her based on how readily she come with me into the ring. I’m not opposed to carrying her in again. would I put her down & ask for some volume dial inside the ring? Interested in your thoughts!>
You can try carrying her in and then seeing what she does when you put her down – does she automatically turn to you? Then you can see if she likes it when you say something like “ready ready” or ask for her favorite trick. It might take some experimenting because it really is a conversation. And if she turns to face you, she might NOT want to do any tricks (all business) and just want to line up and go.
>Should I keep everything FEO? Or switch it up & do some real runs? We have 4 trial days before Westminster, so I am thinking I want to do enough FEO to pump her up but maybe a little bit of real runs so I know where we are for when we get to NY. Is that greedy-human thinking?>
I think more FEO mixed in than you’ve been doing, and real runs (no fixing errors) on the courses that look flowing. No real runs on choppy courses 🙂 And if you can get people to come cheer a bit, or play music, to help get her ready for Westminster which is always noisy and crowded.
>After Westminster, should I do all FEO and In & Out runs with her for a while?>
Possibly! We can see how the upcoming trials and Westminster go, then make the next plans.
>Thank you for all these suggestions & insite! I have had her checked out. She does get things out of alignment and there is a spot on her back that knots up if it is out. When she is feeling ouchy, she will walk out of the weaves in the middle. So, for the last 5 months we have been getting a monthly chiro adjustment and we’ve been building up her butt & rear leg muscles a bit too. It has been keeping her feeling good. Much better than only getting her adjusted when she is showing signs of being out of alignment.>
Perfect! If you can get her some massage, that helps 🙂 And do you have a Back On Track coat? Those are AWESOME. I don’t know exactly how they work, but they are great (I use them on myself too :))
>I will ask about the B12 & folate level test! How did you figure that out for Hotsauce?>
I took her to the vet and asked for all sorts of tests to figure out what was wrong… the vet suggested a cobalamine panel, which is a simply blood test for B12 and folate levels. That is where they found it!
>I do give her a probiotic from Vetriscience that has the “bifidobacterium longus” that is in Calming Care. If DEFINATELY helped her! I started it when we got teeny Bazinga as a pupper! Ha!>
Very cool! I will have to check it out!
>Dang AKC & their dumb rules! That would have been so cool if you guys were there for Flyball!!! Dang!>
Yep, it is all annoying because I sounds like a lot of fun!
>We are flying in. We actually got to go to Westminster before (when it was at the mansion and the tennis center – that sounds braggy – lol – we got so lucky & got in) and she was pretty comfy there. Fingers crossed!!!>
Yay! And I am glad mother nature is providing some colder weather to Florida, so she is prepared for February temperatures in NYC 🙂
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>What’s the best way to do this? Some of my thoughts –
I think the useful scenarios will be to match what the leash runners might do – they are an unpredictable bunch LOL!!
>Bring him in, set up at the line and work his ready cue, have the leash runner approach to maybe 10 feet, if Coal maintains or returns attention to me, mark and toss the ball>
Yes! This is one option. And eventually the leash runner should approach enough that you can simply hand her your leash (I have had this happen over and over)
Other options to show him: the leash runner is already there in “close talker” position very close to the start line.
>Bring him to the line, set up, have the leash runner approach, short lead out and release to call to hand over 1 jump>
Yes, this too, with the leash runner approaching or already in the area near the start. Mix it up!
>Repeat while the runner stays in the ring, the idea being to make her part of the normal background>
Yes – we are basically training his brain to ignore the presence of the other person. Since it is a hard thing and maybe a little weird, you can ‘prepare’ his brain by placing something new and weird right behind you ‘start line’ at home. It can be any random new thing – the first thing that comes to mind is one of those roller suitcases LOL! New, weird, different, unexpected in that context. It is highly likely that the neural pathways are similar, so you can get lots of good training in on the leash runner without needing a leash runner 🙂
Let me know how it goes!
TracyGood morning!
> I actually am doing that for the first time.>
Perfect!
> It is hard for me as I have a brain problem with three associated problems – almost zero sense of direction, very little visual memory and mild face blindness.>
One thing I do is that I don’t think of the turn verbals as anything having to do with sense of direction (because I don’t have a good sense of direction either). I visualize the dog’s shoulder (left or right) and then choose the directional.
And of course, this is all planned in advance and rehearsed.
> Because of that, I can only use the directionals when I am clear on them and have preplanned.>
Same! Definitely pre-plan them. The more you plan then rehearse them, the more automatic it becomes in your brain. Trying to spit them out correctly without planning in advance and rehearsing is really hard! It was impossible for me when I started adding all these verbals – but things are much more automatic because of all the planning & practice.
> I find it very difficult to figure out his direction when it isn’t a full jump so I now have three >
This might be where visualizing which of his shoulders he is going to might help? That would mean that your brain likes visuals 🙂 If not, we can figure out what your brain likes and tailor the planning to that.
>– Dig and Check for directions on jumps and Wrap for go around a barrel or wing. This is a work in process on what actually comes out of my mouth but I really do want him to know which way on jumps.>
Ah! Got it! Because wrap is an extraneous verbal that will probably be dropped in the future (unless you run him in NADAC with barrels and hoops) – you can create the neural pathways in your brain for the jumps by using dig and check in the barrels too. Getting the rehearsals started now will make it much easier.
> That toy switching is a really bad habit. I’ve got to the point where I usually know that I did it and am hoping to extinguish it soon. I haven’t yet started a toy in hand cue but that is on my list to add.>
Yes, you can totally have a toy in hand cue. But also you can prevent the toy-switching habit by running with it in your pocket 🙂 The precision of the delivery is not all that important on these barrel games, so it is fine to have empty hands. And because agility is sooooo complex – not worrying about the toy in your hand or a toy marker in the moment is perfectly fine!! That can allow you to focus on your connection, timing, and wrap verbals. And in a way, it is GOOD to have empty hands to show him that agility can be played without a visible toy.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>- esp inside its a bit harder to throw her treats outside as they soft and sticky. >
My dogs like soft treats like cheese, so I freeze them before using them outside when it is hot out. That way they are cold and easy to throw, no sticking to fingers 🙂
>I like this to as it is so hard for both of us but it is what I have always been taught so like not having to do this. throwing and release is definitely easier on her. she has to work so hard to stay that huge reward when released.>
Right! Throwing back or releasing forward is clearer. There is lack of clarity when we are going back to them because they are moving, and the exact moment the behavior is finished is also unclear.
>I like that idea I have always had in drummed into me you should vary how you walk out – your comments make more sense. will do from now on>
Sorry for any confusion on that – to clarify, vary the length of the lead out and duration but the direction can be towards the obstacles instead of changing direction.
> But can be quite a distance to holding area so will have to work on adding her finding it at a greater distance and waiting at the bag until I get there.>
I think that will be easy to add by gradually moving it further and further back.
>we are at a seminar this weekend and then have several ribbon trials. Pity so close together but ribbon trials low key and also have baby classes.>
Have fun! Keep me posted!
Tracy
