Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>Hey, guess what? Dot peed three times at the seminar. Afterward, I stopped at a friend’s to allow Dot to play with her doberman puppy since she was crated most of the day. It was Sprite’s day. They played and she peed in their backyard! Huge break through! Yahoo.>
Those are really big breakthroughs! Yay!!!
Looking at the toy retrieve:
>I’m not sure where it all went wrong, but it is conflict and avoidance which needs to change before i can use toys to train.>
The conflict/avoidance might be based on all of the pressure to bring it back and control it. A reduction in bringing it back usually means there is something punishing about what you are doing – it might be that trading for a treat means the toy goes away/game over, which is negative punishment and will end up reducing the behavior of trading for a treat. How often does she get rewarded for bringing it back by letting her have it again 🙂
So I recommend a retrieve vacation for now – multiple weeks off from trying to control what she does with the toy. The toy is simply a toy, not work. This would involve:
– setting aside (for now) any shaping or formal training that involves bringing the toy back or controlling what she does with it. Sure, you can do concept work like shape something such as picking up a dumbbell or some non-toy object and putting it in a tub or on a platform or in your hand, as a shaping game. But leave the toys out of it – cleanse the palate. MORE work on bringing it back will not resolve the conflict/avoidance.
– use toys to play! Not to work – but to just play! This involves some management so she isn’t running off with the toy, such as a long toy or a toy on a line and you don’t let go. You can still drag it and tug with it, but it is all play. Yes, that means you are not going to throw a toy a long distance or anything but you can still make it super fun to play interactively and then trade for a treat! And games that might involve a thrown toy can be done with food for now. Games that involve a toy that is more up-close can be done with the toy in your hand or on a line you can drag.
The answer to getting a better retrieve is going to be more play 🙂 so take the work element out of it for now. The retrieve develops organically when we stop trying to make it happen, and instead focus on just playing with the toy.
>So, I am working on her bringing a toy and dropping it in a tub. >
Change the mindset when the toy is involved: don’t ‘work’ on anything. Just play. Keeping the toy in your hand or on a line you hold will keep it fun and interactive without any of the pressure to bring it back. Then put it away when you want to train something that might involve a placed or thrown reward.
And separately from tugging, you can maybe get a giant jolly ball or something and play with her in the yard – a bit of a soccer game or something where you play interactively, no criteria, no work, just play. She has agency to whiz around with it and you can kick it to her, roll it, etc.
>She did great at first, but then the bowl siren was too much. So, some in the middle the bowl isn’t loaded. Then, it is again.>
I agree! She did great! There was one bowl siren moment you left in the middle for sure 🙂 The other moments when she ended up on the other side of you on the way to the bowl were connection questions. At :57 for example, you had your cookie hand at your side but no connection, so she looked at you then followed motion to the bowl. The next reps were much clearer with connection and name call to get her to the side you want, then she pivoted brilliantly with you.
There was one other little disconnection moment at 1:15 when you pointed forward/closed shoulders when you said the bowl marker , so she read it as a blind cross cue then went to the bowl. No need to point ahead of her, you can keep your arm pointing at her and just use the bowl marker – I think she will find it really well with that.
And to keep the bowl sirens from rearing their heads: you can incorporate play to keep her arousal optimized! Optimized arousal is very helpful for impulse control. Doing a lot of reps with food and not a lot of excitement can lower her arousal level to the point that distractions (such as the bowl with a cookie in it) become more obvious and enticing. To keep her arousal level optimized, you can grab a toy from the kitchen, play for a 10 or 15 seconds with you holding one end of the toy, then trade for a treat, put the toy back in the kitchen, and go back to the cookie training area. That keeps it fun without conflict!
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
I am glad she is feeling better after the week off! Good job to you for taking the time to give her rest to recover.
>Hopefully next weekend I will be able to find a place at the trial to record – even though she’s having some regression into fear lately, she was so confident and happy walking around the facility and exploring.>
We have a new game posted today in the resilience track – a pattern game. This game is incredibly effective when helping young dogs go to new places and overcome any fear. Teach it to her at home and then take it on the road!
The got tricks on the plank went really well! She was happy to off getting on the plank and was thoughtful about it too, plus super nice transitions to tugging and back to food rewards!
It sometimes took her a moment especially at the beginning to get both back feet on – you can reward for front feet, but place the reward closer to you to help pull her forward towards you which will get the both of back feet on more easily.She was able to turn around really well – see your hand a little lower on the turn around cue, so that she does’t have to reach up to follow the hand. That was causing her to lose her balance a bit. So a lower hand (at the level of your knee) where her chin doesn’t have to lift up will be perfect.
>She decided she liked this game: I later caught her climbing on a Cato board that had been left out and turning in circles on her own.>
Wow! Gotta love a pup that studies her homework without needing extra help!
Looking at toy races:
>I was blown away at how effective the treat/handicap trick worked.>
Yes – dogs are competitive by nature and they do NOT like to lose. Plus, it is entertaining to watch their reactions. She rocked it here.
I think she really liked that nice long running area for toy races! She was SO MAD when you cheated, it was hilarious to see her try to eat the food as fast as possible then just try to get to the toy as fast as possible LOL!!! Then she left you in the dust and won the next race by a mile 🙂 And I admit to laughing out loud when you TRIED to cheat and she was like NOPE and won that last race too. Then she came back to find the treat. She is very smart LOL
She did really well with the cone wrapping too, totally remembering it even after a bit of time off. Based on what she did here, I think left turns are her stronger side (most pups have a side preference, just like us humans). She seemed more automatic on the left turn side (going from your right to your left). Her bloopers were almost all on the right turn side (going from your left to your right) and she seemed a tiny bit less automatic on that side. She did ave one left turn blooper but that might have been more that the cone was a mile away and your were standing 🙂
The reason I point out that left turns are a bit easier is that you will want to start her on the left turns on the new game posted today: turn and burn! She is ready for it, since having you standing here was no problem at all. So when you tackle turn and burn, be sure to tart her on your right side so she can turn left.
>The concept is fully logical – the execution is breaking my brain :D. I’ve used ‘yes’ as a clicker/marker word for years, and am working hard to break myself of that habit and expand into new things. >
Totally relatable!!!! It took me a while to stop saying “yay!” for every single thing.
You might find it easiest to incorporate just one new marker for now. I think ‘get it’ might be the easiest one and it might make the most sense to your brain. And when that one is easy – add another one. Let me know how it goes!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
I think he enjoyed his toy races!! Yes, he was happy with you holding his collar and he seemed to have no questions about you adding your running plus more distance to the toy.
He was also BIG MAD when you won on one rep. I mean, he was just sauntering along and seemed to assume he would win on that rep, so excellent job to you winning LOL! And that was the end of the winning for you: after that, we saw how much faster he could actually go. Good boy, Lew!!!!
One interesting thing on this session is that he turned to his right on every single rep. Why was it interesting? Well, normally the dogs turn towards us based on which side we are on for this game. The right turns were all away from you! So, maybe the is Lew-speak for “I am a righty”.
Keep this in mind when you start the Turn And Burn game which is now posted: start him on your left side, which cues a right turn, to help make it easier for him to learn the game.
Great job here! Onwards to the new games!!
Tracy
Hi!
>but struggles more going from toy to food still working on this. >
Try creating a fun loop that involves food: toy –> food –> work (like wrap a barrel or something he loves and is really good at) –> toy. So the *food eating* is the behavior and it is rewarded with work and the toy.
>Retrieve is a struggle can get him back almost most of the time- sometims get it back . value definitely with toys but not as obcessed as In Synch.>
For now, keep the toy on a line and keep making it fun for him to bring it back, without allowing opportunities for him to run off with it.
T
Oops forgot to answer this part:
>So far I have: Get It- thrown food or toy, TRADE- drop whatever is in your mouth (good or bad) for a cookie GOOD- I hand deliver cookie YES- come to me for cookie. >
These are great!
>I would like to add STRIKE-toy reward in my hand to grab & tug with me. Do I just repeat the word when she does this action & that’s how she’ll learn what it means?>
Pretty much! Say “strike” before you move the toy. After you say it, present it to her to grab. Being consistent of saying it before you move the toy will help her learn the new marker.
> CATCH – how do I teach this? 😀 I throw cookies at Sunnie and she looks at the ground waiting for them to drop LOL!>
Well, true confessions – my dogs don’t actually catch the treat or toy either LOL but they do know that I am throwing it back to them. You say the word (without moving) then throw the reward back towards the dog – and the dog is allowed to move to get it.
> Do I need a marker word for a dead toy or dead lotus ball? >
I think it depends on where it is. Out ahead? Your ‘get it’ will work nicely for that!
>I never had more than 3 marker words with my previous dog. I only taught her what they meant during the past 2 years. I would just say all the words all the time SMH.
Having a handful of markers is very effective!! Don’t try to add a zillion because then it all does get harder to remember 🙂
T
Hi!
>Dot is still strugglimg to pay attention in enviroments.>
I think she is actually doing well for a puppy that just turned 7 months old and doesn’t have a lot of experience in different places.
She did GREAT with the 2 bowl game right next to people having a conversation! She was quickly re-engaging after getting the cookie (she might have lost one of the cookies, so that rep took longer to re-engage 🙂 ) The up-and-down with bowls is effective because the bowls are a great focal point.
For the back and forth pattern game was a little harder, possibly because it put her closer to the distractions of the people really close. You can play this game a bit further away. Also, for back and forth, you don’t need to feed her in front of you from your hand because it makes the pattern less predictable: toss the reward to the other side so she can keep moving back and forth.
In the harder environments, you can also go up in food value: whip out stuff that is really enticing! Use small bits and work short sessions so she doesn’t get an upset belly. But high value food like chicken or meatballs can go a long way to helping with engagement!
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
Hi!>We sometimes struggle staying engaged.>
I see what you mean on two of the videos – the find the jump and the minny pinny. Definitely try to play with her on the way to the setup and before you send into the first rep. At the beginning of the find the jump game, you she was not really engaged and you started.
But, mainly the disengagement is stress sniffing when she doesn’t know what you want or you stop because she didn’t do what you intended… but the cue was not clear so she was actually correct. And when you indicated she was wrong: she got stressed.
A good example of that was in the find the jump video on the first rep: you turned away from the tunnel before she had really locked onto it, so she followed the turn of your shoulders – then you stopped so she sniffed.
So a new rule: no stopping! Reward her because it is more than possible that the error was yours not hers 🙂
When info was clear and she was correct – she was very engaged for the rest of the session. SUPER!!!
You can add more distance and running here! She found the jump really well so she is ready for more challenge 🙂
The zigzags went really well! You were blocking her line at :36, good job rewarding her because it was not her fault that she went to the other side of the wing 🙂
Her stay is looking strong here so you can lead out to the 3rd wing and see if she can zig zag with you out there!
Minny Pinny – this is also going well. Because she is still sorting out her footwork, you can use bumps instead of bars (she was hitting the bars).
One thing that will help to get more success: She did much better if you held her by the collar to let her hear the verbal 3 or 4 times before you let her start moving. If you were not holding her and you were moving and she started moving on the first word, she was not always sure of where to go and also was hitting bars. So be super consistent with holding her so she can process the verbal before she starts moving.
For the turn aways, if she has trouble turning away and you are holding her – you can place the reward between the bumps to help direct her focus.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
>I’m having issues with my Internet being slow or not even connecting so I’m not sure I’ll be able to get more video up today.>
Ugh, that is frustrating!!!! Fingers crossed for cooperative internet!!!
Good job angling the jump right from the start! That definitely helped her
On the first rep here, she was a bit distracted by something in the environment (motorcycle?) and you were going fast so she ran by.
But on the other reps, when you were not as fast and also really visible between the upright of the serp jump, she was great, finding the serp easily.You can leave the angle on the jump for now – she had nice reps on the other side too, but also sometimes ran past – so for now the angle of the jump so the line is easier will really help her.
The further away you could send her to the start wing, the better the serp jump went in terms of you being able to get to great serp position without having to run. When you had her at your side and you were looking directly at her as you started the send, the great connection helped support the send really well! Good example of that were at 1:11, 2:25 and 2:40.
>I think I might try using the colored hand target to see if that helps a little more too.
>You totally can! And you can shake the serp hand too – that motion might help her drive in on the serp too1
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
> He won’t lure if he doesn’t think the activity is a good idea. >
That is good feedback from the dog. You can start the training by taking for his feedback on what he wants to do: which toy? Which treats? Let him pull you towards which obstacle he wants to play with. That bit of agency might be HUGE for his resilience during adolescence!
>He generally is good with sitting now but it took him a while to get onto the sit and he preferred either stand or down previously. >
You can also build up love of a platform (cato plank or something) if he doesn’t already love it, and mix in using that as a starting point.
>I needed to remind myself what I frequently tell others, every day is different with adolescents.>
True, so very true!
>I think he is definitely feeling frustrated with the reduction in outdoor running time.>
That frustration might be something he carries into other training. Are there things indoors he can do that can alleviate that? Shred things? Usually guided destruction is helpful LOL
>Happy to report he seems much more emotionally level today so far even though we are still in extreme cold and he couldn’t stay out long. Perhaps he also didn’t have good sleep the previous night as you suggested.>
In the training center, you can also start with crazy running like chasing a frisbee or something to let him get the joy of the endorphins and adrenaline, all before asking for training. I usually like to train first, but sometimes letting the pups blow off pent up energy is the best way to start.
Keep me posted. I can’t wait for the snow to melt and spring to come!
Tracy
Hi!
> She’s so smart she was doing what she knows, the hooman was on the wrong page >
Think of it as she is a good communicator. Whenever a puppy is insisting that something is supposed to be a certain way, the puppy is generally correct and we have to figure out what they need 🙂
>Honest opinion, should I not continue with that game since we will be using bowls with you? >
For MaxPup, we are almost done with the bowls as of tomorrow and if we do bring them back out, we can use your marker.
>Or is it too late, she “knows” that exercise/picture already. I don’t want to confuse her either.>
For the bowls, it is good for her to know that stillness is not the only application of getting the bowl… And the bowl being there does not mean she goes directly to it (only go to it after the marker). So, everything in balance 🙂 You can keep trying the stillness game but the bowls can be used in other ways too (like she did with the barrel here) so she understands that it is not something to stand still and stare at 🙂
>We went back to the barrel with moving the bowls behind me. She caught me a few (ok maybe many LOL) times moving the bowls which interrupted her flow. >
She did great! And yes, the challenges were because she saw you moving the bowls and wondered if she needed to pay attention to that LOL!! And that barrel was pretty far away – she did great! This game transforms into something lots more fun starting tomorrow – you’ll really get to see her run!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
The toy races went really well!
On the first rep, having the toy already stationary and walking him away was unclear for him, he didn’t know what to focus on. But on the next reps: throwing it then doing a toy race? Perfectly clear. Yay! He did a great job driving forward to the toy and didn’t seem to mind your motion at all. Keep adding distance so he feels really comfy driving forward and ahead of you.The wobble bird session also went well! You made a helpful choice to put a finger on the board when it started to wobble too much (he was shaking because he is too young to have lot of course strength). Holding the board so it wobbled less really helped him get confident. Super! You can ask him to do sits and downs on it, and even turn around (a hand lure for this is helpful).
The self-control game is going well, he was able to ignore the toy even when he had to pass it to go to the wing. That is great! You can tie a line to the toy, so when he does get to it you can grab the line and hold it so he doesn’t take off with it 🙂
It was hard to see on this video: was he looking at the wing when you let go of him? If yes – great! If no – you can wait until he looks at the wing to let him go around it.
Nice work here! New games coming tomorrow!
Tracy
Hi! Good sessions here! She is interested in the wobble board but not yet fully in love with it in these sessions. She did a great job getting her front end on (loved your excitement when she did!)
I know Roma was a distraction but actually… Phire was pumped up and excited!
So three ideas for you to build the wobble board love and get her putting her hind end on:
– for now, reduce the tip by shoving a ton of towels or something under the wobble boards so the wobble board barely moves.
– Use crazy delicious high value food, stuff she almost never gets (small quantities so she doesn’t get an upset belly) and a short session
– maybe invite Roma The Wobble Board Enthusiast into your session! Social learning is powerful: if baby Phire sees Roma get on happily and get treats, maybe Phire will join her! It sure looked like Phire was just about to do that when Roma’s mom came and got her 🙂 Social learning is so useful!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
He is doing a great job with the pillowcase here! We can get him offering more so you don’t have to help as much: Try to be completely still while he is figuring out what to do – he was half thinking about the pillow case, half watching your motion 🙂
You can see him tracking your cookie hand and thinking that watching the hand might be part of it. So the next step is to stand up more and just casually have your hands in front of you, letting him make all the moves – then click and throw the cookie when he hits the pillow case. You can have the pillow case a little further away so he can’t be on it and watch your hand at the same time – he is very clever 🙂
Excellent tug breaks before and during the session! Yay!
Another fun shaping game to get him offering more behavior without you needing to move is to shape him to get into a box. The box should be low enough that it is easy to get into, and big enough that he easily fits 🙂 And then you can reward him for interacting with the box by dropping a treat into it!
He also did great with the drive to handler – it looks like he found it VERY easy 🙂 Super! He was nice and tight when you added the pivot too. Since this went so well, the next step is to try this in a bigger area – that way you can toss a treat and when he goes to get it, you can start jogging away. Then as he starts heading towards you, you can decelerate and cue him to come to your side then pivot. And you can use an empty cookie hand then tug as the reward 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Aha! Watching both of these, I see why she goes to the most direct route to the dish 🙂 The stillness game is all about focus on the dish – and when the dish gets to the other side of the cone, the context is almost entirely the same (including being held similarly) that she thinks it is the go-to-dish game.
So, we can’t use the bowl for both right now (maybe eventually but she’s too inexperienced and I don’t want to confuse her). You can use a toy for the cone game for now! I do use a bowl a lot but there is a ton of balance so in each session, we are showing when we want the bowl and when we don’t, so it doesn’t become all about going to the bowl when it is present 🙂 And stay tuned for some fun stay games coming up too!
Tracy
Good morning!
She definitely thought the tunnel game was fantastic! You can reward her for running back through it to you too (it was hard to see if she was getting a reward there or not on those) – the reward can be partially for doing the tunnel, and partially as a way to line her up again. There is a lot of pressure on the dogs when we are bent over and holding their collar, so adding cookies for the lineup will make it smoother and easier to line her up without moving her by the collar.
To continue strengthening the verbal, you can hold her til after she hears the tune verbal 3 or 4 times, then let go of her collar. That will also help as you add the harder angles and the threadle approach where she has to turn away from you.
>she decides to stare lovingly into my eyes instead of looking at the tunnel LOL>
Yes! And she doesn’t have to look forward yet, as long as she ends up going to the correct spot. Sometimes the pups look at us or away from us as a way of coping with the excitement and arousal of it all 🙂
The handling combos are going great!
>She is definitely the righty so the left took a bit of work but we got there.>
A side preference is totally normal at this stage. Maybe the video is reversed or I need more coffee, but it looks like the left turns were stronger here –
Her send to the barrel looks really strong on the left turns which is setting you to be able to get the decel easily. You can add a full 360 on. The pivoting then a go go go long the driveway away from the barrel – with a thrown toy or ball. I think she will love that 🙂
The right turn wraps are not as comfy for her yet – try to connect more and point towards it less. When you are pointing ahead, the big point actually turns your feet & shoulders away from the line to the barrel. If yo look directly at her eyes and support the line with a leg step to the side of the barrel you want and a low arm swoosh that follows her nose, you will see that you are facing the barrel more and she will go to it more easily on the harder side. You can see that 6:40 and 6:59, for example – you were looking at her more and pointing less, so she got it more easily.
> I’m using Wing for when she enters off the left side (so a right turn for her) and Wrap for when she enters off the right side (so a left turn for her). What do you think of these?>
The verbals are great! Wrap is perfect – you might need to run around without her yelling WING and ING and see if it sounds the same? We want them to be different sounding so she has no questions.
Great job!
Tracy
