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Good morning!
>Thanks for that analysis and the reminder to JUST STOP. I went absolutely psycho.>
Ha! Yes, it is always better to choose to phone-a-friend (stop the training and post the video) than to dig a hole by going psycho LOL!!
Backside slices are going well! You can be moving before the release so he sees the motion cue more clearly (being stationary was pulling him into you. You can be walking forward the whole time and when you are maybe two steps into your forward movement along the line, release him to move as well. As you do that, it is time to differentiate the releases. Break is really always going to be a front side cue, so now the release can be his backside slice verbal. Using that a the release (plus moving before the release) will also allow you to add more lateral distance away – when he is releasing on the backside slice verbal, you can move your line further across the bar, bit by bit. Everything remains the same in t terms of your motion and release and connection, but you will just be a bit further away from the entry barrel.
>Then decided to be brave and go back to the jump threadle. Judge seems to have forgiven me.>
Ha! The dogs forgive us as long as we don’t consistently get psycho about things LOL!
The setup was great in terms of your position and the MM position, and you get a giant click treat for NOT moving.
He does not quite realize that we would very much like for him to find the bar on his own 🙂 That makes sense, based on him not being able to do it in the last session without your movement. So we will shape it: start with a couple of reps like you did here, clicking when he got to the correct side (your clicks were before he turned his head to the bar, which was perfectly fine). Then after 2 or 3 reps of success with that, you can delay the MM click one tiny heartbeat until he turns his head to the bar. He doesn’t even have to move to the bar, he just needs to turn his head to it. Get a few reps of that and then you can delay it even more so he takes that first step. It won’t take him long to send himself to the bar (as long as you don’t move :))
>Interesting – I did notice that on my left hand, he turned wider –>
Do you mean turning to his right, the first few reps? I thought those were a little wider than when he was turning to his left on the last 3 reps. But that just might have been because of the order of the session? Either way, when you start delaying the click, start on the side that feels most comfortable so it is as easy as possible.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
She did well here! Tugging harder than usual is a good indicator that there was some challenge in this setup!
You can add in a bit more to this slice – looks like it was people nearby, which is a good start. You can have them holding a toy or treats (in a neutral way). Or if there is a new dog that can just lie down and be super chill, that is good to add as a slice too!
(This is also a good opportunity to Chata to learn to ignore other people with food – first with you having food, then eventually you will not have food).Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
She is doing well with the rocking horses here! Great job adding your verbals and maintaining connection through the reps! Yo can spread them out more so you have to run a little more for the advanced level – that will make it easier for you to decelerate into the countermotion element.
Side note –
It is preferable to use barrels or cones to start because we can work through all the mechanics needed for success (rounded turns, countermotion, not touching the obstacles, etc). If you use wings, change the angles 90 degree so she is seeing the full wing – that helps with the lining up for turns.Also good job bringing the toy out – she was looking away with the food, so you can train this with a toy (and the toy in your hand). That will help with arousal regulation (gotta ignore the toy to get the toy, plus gotta commit in higher arousal). Plus you can add turn-and-burn exits of the wraps, so she can really chase you out of the session.
The remote reinforcement session went well – the trick to his is going to be keeping it as the most fun game ever with zero frustration built in. That means keeping it super simple for now and ultra clear. She is happy to move away from the treats but didn’t know where to go, so close the ring gating so she doesn’t think you want her to exit, and move towards the ring instead.
You noticed that she was jumping up/being solicitous here – I think that was a “I don’t know what you want” behavior. Arousal level for this game is naturally lower at this stage, so you didn’t get any nips or tooth hugs… but that jumping up is the beginning of tooth hugs 🙂 So we want to avoid it. You can do that by marking and returning to the treats sooner – either mark for walking away, or ask for a behavior or two quickly then mark and go back. The jumping up was when you were taking too long to mark and she was confused about what to do.
For example, at 1:45-1:50 approximately you were praising in a high pitch and she was jumping up at you. In that moment, I don’t think she knows what you and we don’t want to encourage jumping up like that… so be more “all business” and super clear about what is happening. Praise is lovely and all, but it is not clear about what is happening. She was not quite ready for duration, so take her jumping up on you as a sign of that.
Also, since this game is pretty hard, help her with hand signals for the behaviors. For example at 1:50 you said “sit” and she jumped up, backed up, jumped up, did a spin. Help her out with either giving a hand signal for the sit, or asking for something easier.
Since she is a really good communicator, you can use her jumping up (punching you in the gut on some of these LOL) as an indicator of her being unsure of what you want – and that is your cue to make it easier and raise the rate of reinforcement. It is a fine line – she likes to be petted, if I remember correctly, but soliciting it during a training session and gut punching can also be signs of confusion which tip over into nips when arousal is higher.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
First of all, thank you for posting the bloopers here!!! It really helps us sort out what is happening and how to help him out. When we get sessions where the dog has a lot of questions, I look at them from the viewpoint of: what is he seeing when he gets it right? What is he seeing when he doesn’t get it?
I have watched it a few times, and I think I have figured out what happened (hooray for video!!) I think 2 things were going on:
– He is relying on upper body movement to be cued to take the bar. You might not even realize you are doing it, but indeed you are 🙂
The first set of threadles to your right arm looked really strong (:01 – :18) and there was subtle upper body movement showing the line. Not a lot of movement… but definitely movement. A Malinois for sure sees that, they see everything 🙂
He did have big questions about the right arm threadles – not a disaster, just questions. On the first reps there… you had absolutely zero upper body movement. He did not take the bar, just went past it to the MM.
This continued through the session. For example, compare 1:13 and 1:20 (upper body movement so he went to the bar) to 1:17 (no movement, no bar).
– the MM was in a hard spot, it was easier to go past the jump to it than it was to go over the jump to it.
So what to do to help him? The first step would be to change the angle of the MM so it is much easier to see between the uprights. You can put it a few feet away like it was here, but more on a line from the center of the bump/opposite your feet. That will give him a better visual aid to turn more to look at the bar. You can also angle the jump a tiny bit: your position and the MM spot is the same, but the entry wing is further from you and the exit wing is closer to you – that will help make it easier to go to the bar and harder to go past it (less room).
And, take out all movement 🙂 I think that you *don’t*want to have a second cue on the threadle to get him to take the jump, so for now the only things that can move are your eyeballs and your MM clicker finger LOL!!
I think putting the MM in a better, more visible spot will really help. And you can ping pong the timing of the click: sometimes for getting to your threadle hand area, sometimes for going to the bar, and any spot in between.
Also, live by the 2 failure rule – if you get 2 failures (in a row or total in the sessions), you either need to change something to get success or phone-a-friend for ideas 🙂 such as sending me the video 🙂
I often stop and watch the video during the session if I am getting failures and don’t know why. And if you get another failure or two? Stop the session 🙂 No obsessing allowed! There might have been things that fit into my definition of obsessing here: continuing to work even with a lot of failures, and frustration in the voice. Sometimes we need to change something and we don’t see it til after we watch the video, sometimes we just need to stop and let latent learning work its magic.
And always reset with reinforcement and do not indicate error with change in body language – just immediately reset with reinforcement (hard to see what the reset was here because of the edits) and try again. He knew it was incorrect (no MM treats) so we don’t need additional things that indicate it was incorrect.
>Then he was getting sticky and stopping to stare at the MM. I feel like the MM is causing problems.>
The position of it was hard, but the impulse control element of it was not too hard. It was the bending to the bar without a physical cue which was hard. The sticky moments were when he went to the bar and you didn’t click… so he was not sure what to do. You don’t need to wait to click til he is past the bar, you can click the MM the instant he steps to the bar.
>I don’t feel like he has a strong dominant side that I can really tell and he does not usually have so much trouble switching sides in exercises.>
Agreed! I don’t think this was a dominant side issue, I think it was a cue issue (movement of your upper body versus no movement) and a placement of reward question.
Since circling is his default behavior when he is asking questions and he is applying that to circling the wing, you can also take out any multi-wraps. It is basically the same behavior, so we can take it out of his training routing for now 🙂 No need to reward it! His head turn wraps at the end here looked really good and are close enough to multi-wraps that you can check it off the list and skip it for now 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Baby Level I was very happy with how he fixed my late cues. Not as happy that I’m giving late cues.>
Ha! Yes, he was great, I really love the way he moves and works, what a good boy!!!! Also yes, you can do some of the cues sooner 😁
You had several reps that were right on time, for example at :19 and :48 (those were my favorites). On those reps, you did the blind basically as soon as he started moving towards you, which meant the decel was also earlier. Look at how he shifts his weight to collect at your side! Nice!!!!The other thing that will make the timing easier is if you add changes of motion: as he is eating his start cookie, you can take off running – then as he takes his first step towards you, do the blind. Then as soon as you finish the blind, start the decel. It will feel early, perhaps, but based on how he moves and his speed already – I think that will simulate the timing you will need when he is jumping for real.
You can also move to the next step of this game, which involves starting with a barrel wrap (it its the Handling Combos). And it has lots of challenges for us handlers to be able to get all the cues in on time 🙂
Great job!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
When the course is over, you have lifetime access to the content. You can either come to the website for it, or download the PDFs which contain live links to the demos/explanations.
Have fun!
TracyOmg!!!! I’m so glad your house survived!!!! What do you need until you get back home? We can send things to help during this crazy time.
Tracy
I have been thinking of you all week!!! The photo did not come through – is the danger past? What can we do to help? It all looks so disastrous!!!!
T
Hi!
Max did great with this! You cracked me up – I was going to suggest layering the pole, and then you did it LOL!!! Ha! He had no trouble with that at all, so you can keep adding distance. My only suggestion is to stay more connected by looking at him more as you go back and forth. The only error was at :45, when you were looking totally forward and not at him, so he came to you and didn’t take the jump. Also, you don’t need the clicker any more – you can switch to your ‘get it’ marker and throw the treat sooner. That will help keep him looking forward and not back at you.
> My 3 year old Manchester terrier who does not like the trial atmosphere, did horrible at this.>
Interesting! What did the terrier struggle with? It is a great game to teach the dogs, to help them love jumps 🙂
Nice job here!
TracyHi!
Yes, the head turn game simple but definitely NOT easy. 3 hands are needed LOL! Your clicks and rewards were really strong!
Turning left – easy!! She is definitely a lefty on this game. You were able to move your hand pretty quickly and she was turning her head really well, which created a nice tight turn around the cone. Yay!
Turning to her right was much harder for her. You can help her out by moving your left hand more slowly to get the turn away – think of it as using your left hand to lead her through the turn slowly.
When you were using a quicker hand movement, she would default to trying to turn to her left again.The threadle wrap foundation game looked really strong I both directions. The turns to her right here were just are strong as the turns to her left, so something about the complexity of cone wrapping made the right turns harder on the other game. Stay tuned for the next steps of threadle wraps coming on Tuesday!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>The Cato board was the closest thing I had that adds some height and is a bit narrower for backing up.>
It is a tiny bit narrow for her, yes – but it was a great challenge to think about where her feet and booty were! And it helped her get her back feet under her more and less outside the line of her body. So it can be something that goes into a rotation of these body awareness games- for now, I think one step back onto the plank is great so she rehearses that precise hind end use.
>seems like it’s just a little too high and a little too narrow.
I don’t think it was too high, but something wider can make it easier when you are adding distance, for example.
>if you can’t lower the platform, raise the floor.>
CLEVER!! Yes, it would almost be like walking backwards up low stairs.
>Close enough to work with or should I see if I can get Jim to make me something? >
If Jim can make something maybe 3 or 4 inches wider, I think it would be perfect! And since I am putting in request 😂😁🤣 can he make it wobble too, for the future steps?
The serp concept transfer is going really well! She was driving in then collecting to turn to the reward, which is exactly what we want. The more she gets the MM as the reward, the sooner she will start to turn herself to it before you click it.
What a fun moment at 1:21, when the start cookie was on a really hard angle and she actively had to avoid the obvious like to the MM in favor of finding the line to the serpentine. YAY!!! That made the next rep really easy 🙂 Super!>Not sure why I was holding my hand with the target so high! >
I think your hand position was really good – that is probably where it will be when you are running sequences. And we are fading out the actual touching of the target, so having the hand a little higher is perfect!
The threadle concept transfer went well too! You can move the MM a little further away so she doesn’t stop over the bump to get to it – you can move it about 5 more feet away on the same angle (as long as it is still visible through the uprights when she comes to the threadle side).
The next step here is to add your threadle verbal as the release cue – you can say it a few times then say your “OK” cue to help her understand that it is fine to move on the threadle verbal 🙂And when you have added the threadle verbal (should only take a couple of reps), you can move to the advanced level where we show her the serp and threadle in the same session 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>I have been working on a ‘go to place’ cue….so the Cato board might be a portable place!>
I think this can help clarify what is happening next and keep the training ‘clean’ (meaning, he knows what to do clearly at every step). He has a great sit stay on the flat, but the station can actually be more useful because it is just so clear about where to be and what to do.
Thinking about what he is trying to tell us with the jumping up – As a teenage boy 🙂 he doesn’t have a lot of resilience yet or impulse control yet for when things are unclear. So finding ways to help him out with super clarity will help. It might mean fewer reps as you set everything up carefully… but the quality of the reps will be very high so you don’t need a lot of reps! And the in-between moments will also be high quality, leading to more smoothness there too!
>Looking at the videos and seeing the correlation of frustration and jumping makes a lot of sense! >
I think that is the trigger for it – a little bit of frustration. This happens even when you are working at a really high rate of reinforcement for the skill, so it is more about the in-between moments like lining up, or getting ready to work, etc. It is a pretty normal adolescent behavior and we can definitely help shape him towards doing things that don’t involve jumping up 🙂 It will take some planning but that can be totally fun! And you can bring your plan to classes/seminars – instructors are totally on board with a handler have a plan that leads to smooth happy transitions and in-between moments!
>He really is a good boy…just a bit on the wild side!>
I agree, he is TOTALLY a good boy and he is actually an excellent communicator. He makes his feelings VERY obvious LOL!!! I appreciate that, though, because it helps all of us in the long run.
Looking at the video:
Yes, the winter coats are a pain LOL!!! They make us humans feel clunky!
You can connect with your arm back to him as you run away. You can see him not being sure where to be when your elbow is bent and shoulder closed forward – the reps were better when he could see your face more 🙂 You can see his zigzag line questioning where to be on the first rep, and also at 1:42, for example. He pummels you a bit when he arrives, partially because he didn’t know what else to do.
I think having your dog-side hand back to him and holding treats (or empty) can clarify where to be, and the other hand can hold the toy for the driving forward moment>Watching how late I am in stopping (he is already there when I FINALLY stopped in the early ones!>
Yes, the decels were late, he was getting to you before seeing any really change in motion. When he did see the change, he was GREAT though (like at :59). One thing you can do is put a cone out as a visual marker for you – when he passes the cone, you decelerate. Because he is big-strides and fast, the cone will be placed maybe one stride away from his start stay position – that is how early you can show the decel. And being connected back to him more will make that moment even more visible to you.
He rehearses a bit of jumping up on you as you walk back to start the next rep (1:46, for example). It was a transition where he didn’t quite know what to do – this is where a station can be GREAT. You can send him to his station, move to your start position, call him into the next rep. Very clean and smooth without any jumping up on you getting rehearsed. You can also move him from place to place with the back and forth game.
You did a bit of up and down but that was after he was already jumping up (and he jumped up again after you did it, because it was another transition and he was unsure of what to do). I think the station work or the back and forth can happen immediately after the reward for the previous rep so there is no jumping up – it gets replaced by a more clear “this is what we do in between reps”
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
He approached all of these sessions as if he had been practicing without you and he wanted to show off what he had practiced LOL Hooray for latent learning!!!!
Backside foundation is going well! He is going to the barrel much more smoothly now on both sides and really that helps! So cool to see!!
You can start moving sooner, ideally you are moving up the line before he looks at you after the start cookie (so he sees the cue in progress). And as you start moving, you can start repeating the verbal – I think you were saying “back” once, but you can say it several times as you move up the line to support the commitment.
Since this went so well, you can start inching over so you are a little further away on the parallel path. Be sure to tape the bar down so it doesn’t roll under his feet – we don’t want him to tweak his wrists!
Backing up: looking fabulous!!!! And great job breaking things off to add toy play. You can slide further away from his target bit by bit – start the next session where you ended here and when he gets into the rhythm of backing up, you can scoot yourself back by an inch or two. If he can still back up, you can scoot back a bit more!
Another option is o stay close to the target but change your position – you can sit on something low, then stand up/bending over. We don’t want his head to get too high, so keep your hands low as you change your position.
The Pivot Trivet – hilarious! I love it! I think it worked really well – he had to control his movement to get on it otherwise it would move and that is great – we want him to think about controlling his movement. Tossing the treat to the side helped him get on and pivot back to center, so you got several good steps when he got back on the trivet 🙂 He was slightly stronger with that going from your left side towards your right side, so you can alternate sides for the cookie toss to build up the other direction too. He didn’t do as well when you were waiting for him to offer it – he might have been thinking you wanted him to remain stationary? So you can reward in position when he pivots back to center, then release with a tossed treat to the other side.
The head turns went really well! It is a challenging game in terms of mechanics – human and canine! Your markers were spot on. You were great about using the dog side arm to send him and the same arm to turn him away. The opposite arm can be responsible for tossing the treats – that is what you did when you changed sides and it looks like it was easier for you and also he found the next line really well.
For the next session, you can be a little closer to the upright, which will help get him turning even tighter!
Great job on these!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
These went really well! Your handling is NOT trash at all! You were prioritizing connection and that is why he was very successful.
Also, these games require impulse control because he has to move away from the toy in order to get it – he figured that out pretty quickly on the first video!!At first, he had a bit of a hard time ignoring the tossed toy, so 2 ideas for you:
– rather than toss it, you can place it down (that can be less exciting than him watching you throw it)
– You can reward him with treats for walking away from it>Max had a harder time to one side than the other. Not sure if it was toy placement my handling.>
This was at :59, and it was a disconnection caused him to not end up on your left. You were looking forward as he exited the barrel, so he stayed on his line rather than change sides. He was happy to eat the treats at the barrel, but showing more connection like you did on the last rep was really helpful.
2nd combo: very nice shift into decel and collection even with the toy out there! Yay! He did a great job ignoring the toy and following your decel cues. You can mix things up and sometimes go straight to the toy, so he doesn’t get too locked into handler focus and the value of the toy stays high too.
Great job here! Stay warm!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Nice work with his perch work! It looks pretty equal in both directions. I think he still needs the bowl, his footwork on the flat is not as clean and he tends to offer the sit on one side. So before fading out the bowl, you can work his footwork/balance by taping a jump bar to the floor (or a pool noodle, something pretty low for now). I tape it perpendicular to the bowl – and as he pivots into position, he steps over the bar. The bar is taped so it does not roll under his feet. If that goes well, you can replace the bar with a low jump bump. This is a more challenge game and also great for conditioning. We eventually have several bumps but for now, start with one taped-down bar and see how he feels about it 🙂
Threadle – another nice session here too! He did well sorting out that yes, ‘in in’ is a release (just make sure you don’t say it and move your hand at the same time) and also yes, he can go directly to the MM when it clicks without needing additional markers. He did well from the different angles!!
Two suggestions about the mechanics:
– you can move the MM further away so he can fully stride over the bar to get to it (and not decel over the bar) And make sure it is fully visible on the slice line over the bump, so he doesn’t go around the jump to get to it. You can delay the click to when he goes to the bump, but make sure it is an easy line for now.
>he started skipping the jump and circling, so I think he was bored. >
I think it was the placement of the MM more than anything – it was on the line he went to, and he was still learning that the ‘out’ element included the bar. The circling was probably just a bit of confusion.
>Bad mom, too many reps.>
To avoid this being a possibility, set a 5 cookie limit on each side. 10 reps is plenty! This session had 16 reps. The extra 6 reps might not seem like a lot, but it is a lot of cookie repetition so easy for the dogs to get bored. And be sure to build in lots of toy play between reps!
– keep your shoulders frozen in threadle position until after he reaches the MM, so you don’t accidentally build in a second cue to take the bar. The initial cue should be the in-then-out cue, so we don’t want him to think that he should wait for your shoulder movement in order to go to the bar.
Great job with the head turn game! I really like the nice rounded shape of his turn (it is my personal mission to develop fantastic turns in breeds that people say can’t turn… whippets and Malis fall into that category LOL!!!) My only suggestion here is that you can mark with a clicker here rather than search – this is the one of the few times that I think the click would be more effective because it hits differently in the brain. It would be a bit of a surprise to him and that can be great for dopamine coding, more so than a search marker. Your timing was spot on, so do a session with a clicker and see if we can get even more precision.
For this baby level of the game – start him a step or two further back from the upright so he can come into the head turn with more speed. And you can also try the advanced level/360s.
>I used the superbowls for him (from MYOB) the other day in the parking lot of Cabela’s (a place we go to train other skills) and he did not even notice 2 guys who were talking about 7 parking spaces away from us (of course, he noticed them, he sees everything, but he was able to MYOB). And he had a terrific outing.>
Thank you for this update!!! What a great okay to use the super bowls game. Yes, his brain “noticed” the 2 guys but also his brain was able to process them and not need to prioritize them as something to respond to. So cool!!!! Yes, his breed and age will lean towards being watchful of the environment so using super bowls in that environment goes a long way to carving out the neural pathways you want in adulthood. Yay!!
Great job here!
Tracy
