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Hello and welcome!!! Judge looks like such a cool dog (and great name too :))
The foot target pre-game is lokoing really good. I love how he was getting faster and faster with each rep!! The only thing I would add here is your ‘treat is tossed ahead’ marker (I say get it for that) so he keeps looking forward and not at you.
We might also consider making that target bigger at some point as we add more motion, because he has big feet already and has more growing to do 🙂 If it is too small, he might have trouble hitting it easily.
Hand target – he was touching it really well, then looking at you more and more, for 2 reasons:
– the hand with the target was right in front of you
– the cookies were in the clicker hand so you were delayed in delivering them. He was sitting in front and looking at you when he got the treat, so that built in more looking at you and less direct targeting.To help him look at the target more, you can hold it out further from you (arm extended away, elbow locked) and you look at it to help guide his gaze to it. And then when he hits it, you can either quickly bring the cookie over to the target and deliver it, or you can toss the treat away to reset for the next rep. That will be a lot easier if you don’t also have the clicker, so feel free to ditch the clicker and just use your verbal markers.
Great job here! I am excited to see more!!!!
Tracy
Good morning! Both of these videos look great!!
On the foot targeting – he was really hitting it beautifully. The only thing to add is a marker that tells him that the treat will be tossed away, so he looks forward for it and not at you. I use “get it” for that. And you can even replace the clicker with the get it marker (say get it when he hits the target and toss the treat) which can be even easier for us humans, and keeps him looking forward.
He was also great with the hand target! He backed up to look at you a few times – he might have been trying to make eye contact, or he might have been offering backing up if you’ve taught him that 😀 Either way, if you change where you are looking from his cute face to the target, that will help him understand that it is the target you want. And you can use the get it marker here too!
Great job here!
TracyThe puppy sounds fantastic!!!!! And I love her name ❤️ I’m looking forward to seeing what she is famous for 😀
Tracy
He was such a good boy in these!!!! Yay!!! The Grounders runs were definitely easier for him- the value for the hoops, barrels, tunnels are high so he found the lines really well. I’m impressed with how he found the long lines to the end! Wow!!
He’s young still, so the value for jumps is not quite ready for trials yet, which is why he had more trouble in Jumpers. No worries, we can bring up the value for the jumps as he gets more experienced, and he can keep doing Grounders (and maybe Tunnelers 😀 ) for now.
We can also work on a start line stay more – right now it looks like he takes off as soon as the leash is off. He’s already speedy and going to get even faster, so we can definitely get him to stay so you can have a head start. For now it can be as simple as he stays next to you when the leash comes off (check out the new Leash Off Engagement On game from yesterday) so you are not behind him at the start, you can start with him.
Great job!
TracyGood morning! Congrats on a wonderful debut! The videos are marked as private – can you make them unlisted so Youtube will let me see them?
>>It was a double (or quadruple) challenge as I was the trial secretary and decorations chair. I ran my PWD, my trainers dog on Friday, debuted Wayne , and I don’t think I told you about my new puppy ( I may have officially lost my mind!)>>
OMG! That is busy! And yes, I want to hear about your new puppy and no, you have not lost your mind LOL!!!!
>> Since he is only 15 months we haven’t done much jump work and I don’t (yet) have jumps at home.>>
That would explain why jumpers was harder 🙂 Age plus lack of experience. No worries! You can stick to things like grounders or tunnelers which are easier for youngsters and also insanely fun fun fun!!! That will make jumper much easier when he is more ready for it.
Tracy
Good morning!
>>So how long does this “teenage/my brain parts don’t talk/things are super hard for me” stage last again?>>
For smaller dogs/herding breeds/females, maybe til they are 2 or so? There is no black and white line of course so you will see more and more maturity as she approaches 2. I feel like we need a support group.
>– Tug & agility is super hard – tug-1 rep of something easy – tug – stop (and decompress)>
Yes – it is hard, it might not be all that reinforcing or motivating all the time for her, and also it is not all that important 🙂 What is important is using a high value motivator and being really engaging with it. It doesn’t matter if it is a toy or not – many of the highest level dogs are doing it for food 🙂
>– Food & agility is hard but not as hard as tug rewards – volume dial (with barking & movement to amp her up) – up to 3 reps – stop (and decompress) – >>
I don’t think food and agility is hard – I think arousal regulation is hard, and food is always motivating for her (I can relate, it is always motivating for me too 🤣😂). So a less-is-more approach is great – 30 seconds, then be done, and mix in decompression.
>If I lose her behind me, try to keep going since it was no doubt caused by me disconneting. Lotus tug (with food) is between the two so maybe one or 2 reps with that?>
And you can also mix in a ton of simple take-what-is-in-front-of-you-lines (revisiting the lazy game :)) so that the balance of value can shift out to getting on lines and less on handler focus. That plus throwing rewards in a variable way on the lines will really help her stay on the line even if connection gets softer. Plus, experience will help too!
>– The more that we can do with getting her arousal up, doing a thing (or two/three) and then decompressing down again without any leaping lizard episodes, the better and eventually this will help build her resilience.
Yes, and arousal regulation so that resilience is not really needed. But you can do this less in agility and more in shaping games, tricks, etc. Get her physiology rehearsing it before adding things that can be frustrating (handler error for example). Agility is inherently unpredictable for dogs, so rehearsing the physiology resilience “flex” while doing unpredictable agility might be “lumping” when I bet she does better if we split out that rehearsal from agility sequences.
>> (and when her brains do finally start talking to each other again, that framework will be in place to do more stuff eventually)>>
100% yes 🙂
>– Lots more neutral pattern games/ general decompression (bully stick chewing, shredding cardboad, sniffy walks where nothing exciting happens (like dogs lunging at her or bikes flying by out of nowhere), napping, playing with Kaladin (usually), and snuffle mats/treat scatters all work for her)>Yes – adolescence is definitely a less-is-more time of life for dogs. And that is hard, because that is when we are supposed to be ramping up all of their training to debut them at 18 months, right?!?!?! LOL!!! Nope. I have had a MUCH easier time with the last 4 dogs by just waiting to ramp it up and not debuting them til they were older than 2. It was soooooo much easier than when I was trying to debut closer to 18 months. Those 6-8 months make a huge difference in their development.
>– She needs at least day off between hard things>Yes – a weekly/monthly calendar is a real godsend at this stage (see below)
>1) Does it make sense to do very many in-person classes at this point? Or do I keep adding them in (maybe every other week?) but plan on using treat rewards for a while until I can get more consistent good results with a toy at home?>
I think getting her into classes and letting her have a super grand fun time is GREAT! Yes, you can do a bit of tugging if she wants to but you can also use super high value food and food carrier toys and she will do great!
About toy play: if we take the pressure off toy play, you will see it blossom. She doesn’t need to play with toys to be one of the fastest dogs in the ring! She needs understanding and love of the game, which can be accomplished with food (many high level things have been won by foodie dogs in agility, and I found out yesterday that one of the fastest flyball times ever run by a 4 dog team was done with 3 of those dogs running for food! So you if you keep the toy as a “hey let’s party!” And build value and understanding with food, then the 2 motivators will meld together in a way that works super well for you both.
>2) Where do things like her RDW foundations (going nowhere very fast and soon to be slower since I have a week before I leave for the Open and then we’ll probably have snow when I get back) or short teeter sessions fit in? Is that more like a harder agility sequence so should alternate with those? 3) Does it make sense to substitute in a jump grid session (dragging the lotus tug) instead of a short sequence session?>
A calendar will help! Yes, you can do a jump grid session mixed in once a week, or run her through a grid 5 times, take a break, do a 2 minute sequence session, be done. Then a couple of days off from jumping and focus on a RDW session. Or do a one-hit-wonder teeter moment for her entire meal. For a while, I was doing a morning single teeter rep for an entire breakfast every day or so with Elektra (who was afraid of the teeter) and that might have bene her entire training for the day, depending on the insanity of life 🙂 Maturity is our friend, so we don’t need to push too hard right now.
>4) Thoughts on whether I should try 1 rep with a toy and then do a treat scatter and switch to another rep with food? (after getting success with 1 rep with toy & quit)>
I think that puts too much pressure on the toy. You can toss it around as a goofy game before a session then put it away and do a food session. Keep the toy compartmentalized as the party and not the work 🙂 and the food can remain as the work for now, because it is incredibly motivating for her.
>5) Does it make any sense to consider an NFC run before I have a more solid toy (not lotus tug) reward behavior in place? >>She will let us know and absolutely yes, you can do NFC without toys. There are many dogs who don’t find toys interesting at all, so we focus more on the remote reinforcement games and less on toy play. Does Lift like to play with a ball or frisbee? It would be fun to play with those separately (dead ball retrieves, or frisbee rollers) because that might be fun and you can use those in the ring.
>Sure I could probably have her ready to do the food reward box sooner, but not sure I want to do that and then try to introduce the toy in the ring after that. >
I think that would be fine – running for food, then running for a toy later on, totally can work! It would rely on her understanding of remote reinforcement (she is doing well with that!) and how motivating the toy is (or not).
>6) Can I use pattern games to help get her back if she’s lost her puppy marbles? >>Absolutely! You can use them in training (ideally before she loses her marbles LOL!) and you can use them in life also ideally if you see something that is really hard for her, or if something surprising happens and you need to help her out.
>I kept moving her further away and when she finally glanced sort of at me, I tossed a treat and moved into a pattern game.>
You don’t need to wait for her to look at you to start the pattern game – sometimes she will be unable to do this because the challenge is too difficult. It is perfectly great for you to recognize the moment and start the game (you can put a meatball on her nose to be like “pattern game time!”).
>> Her latency sucked at first even with moving further away, but then she got into it and eventually I was able to walk her past the playing dogs at a distance and got some good responses to trick cues)>
Great! The high latency at first is normal and then responses get faster as the arousal gets regulated. You don’t even need to ask for tricks (as those can increase arousal again), you can do the patterns then just decompress and end the session.
>She was such a trooper around my young nephews too. Made the 6yr old’s day when she agreed to sit on his lap next to me (with cheese as a reward).>That is so great!!!
>The flight home was hard for her. She had puppy Xanax before both flights and was very calm/napping the whole time on the way out. Started out that way on the way back, but had a bit of a puppy panic attack when the engines revved for takeoff (it was especially noisy and vibrated alot). >
Poor girlie! I can relate to this too – flying is scary even with Xanax on board! But I am glad she was able to settle down and have a good flight after that. The neuroscience vet people say the it can take 72 hours or longer (up to 3 weeks EEK!) for the body to return to baseline after a trip like that, so having a chill few days will definitely help 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The lazy games are going well! One thing to add when you revisit these are the errors that you commonly make. I commonly disconnect and fling my arms around, so I show all of that while playing the lazy game 🙂 Be a sucky handler LOL!! You were good here in terms of not helping too much, but you can help less and even deliberately flinging arms or disconnecting. Just stay close enough to the jumps so that he has an easy choice to take them.
And since he is young, you can revisit this regularly to maintain the balance of line focus and handler focus (because that shifts a lot at this stage).
He did well with the leash game – you made the loop nice and big so it was super easy to get it on him – and he very quickly started shoving his own head through. I love it! You can keep luring it to start in different environment (and in daily life) so you will see him doing it easily everywhere.
When you made it a lot smaller, he was not as sure, so going back to the big loop was perfect. That loop can stay super big for as long as needed (or forever :))
>>I think this might be our best thing to teach for end of run since I don’t want him to come down from that competition high instantly just because he doesn’t enjoy being leashed. Or worse, have him feel like it’s a punishment!>>
I agree! Making the end of the run as fun as possible is really key for youngsters, so the entire ring experience is really positive for them.
Great job here!Tracy
Good morning!
Poor Taq, I hope the hives are gone!!!
>>I was pretty disappointed that she did not want to run here.
I read this before watching the video, so I was prepared to see her not running or being super duper slow, or worried, or maybe hormonal, or……. And we were going to make a plan to work through, not worry about it, etc.
Nope! It was actually really good and you made good decisions. What you saw was just her brain processing. She wanted to run, she stuck with the games nicely, but the environment offered some big challenges that her brain needed to process. It probably did not feel great in the moment but as an independent eye watching it, I can tell you that she did great 🙂 Nothing disappointing here, and nothing to worry about.
>I tried to pivot to easier things but still felt like she was dragging.>
The easier stuff was brilliant dog training. She wasn’t dragging – what you were seeing were just responses with slightly higher latency because of the environment, plus because of the environment (more on that below) she needed BIG obvious handling cues – if you were too subtle, she couldn’t quite filter it through the other things her brain was filtering.
Video 1 – this environment is actually a lot harder than it might look: other dog smells, much more enclosed than she is used to in the agility context, trees, plants, etc. Plus, it didn’t have the excitement of an agility trial to help raise her arousla (and higher arousal states help filter out distractions).
She did fine sorting it out, and I think what we are mainly seeing a reward hierarchy: ball – food – tug toy, in that order in this moment (although higher value food might override the tug toy.
The handling went pretty well – her brain is processing a lot of different things so you can be really big with the cue and hold them longer, because commitment is not as strong when the brain is occupied sorting out other distractions too.
Right as I was typing that you can use pattern games to help her acclimate to the new environment – the 2nd video was pattern games and she looked great! You can take her on a pattern game tour of a new environment to help the brain process more of it too.
Video 3 was some play mixed in with the sequence and that went great!
The handling blooper moments were mainly when you were being subtle with the cues or move away sooner. Try to hold your positions longer (even if you are late in the handling) to really support commitment in new places.
Video 4 started with a bit of turn and burn on a jump for a toy: super fun!!
Then there were some banging noises in the background and she did great – I am sure her brain had to process that but she stuck with the game really well. She needed bigger more obvious connection here to break through the banging noise distraction – she didn’t seem worried, it is more like her brain was trying to multitask and brains are not good at multitasking 🙂
In the moment you might not have noticed the banging (adult human brains are probably experienced with not having to devote energy to processing that) but if you listen to the video, you can hear it nice and loud! And sawing noises or something like that.
And teenage Farmdog brains are NOT used to that so I am sure her brain was devoting bandwidth to processing it along with the other new things in the environment. So that meant the sequence work was not quite as brilliant as it is at home – but she still did really well!The last video was wings and the tunnel and that was great! You can hear a loud BANG as she wrapped the first wing, then sawing then sawing AND banging LOL That requires a lot of brain bandwidth so having the easier agility skills gave her brain room to deal with both very successfully 🙂
So overall – I think the challenge you had hear was more about the new environment and then as she settled into that – the banging/sawing were dividing her attention a bit. That is probably why she felt a little sticky, a little draggy – divided attentional state as her brain processed the experience of the noises. But she worked through it brilliantly and I am sure latent learning is cementing the experience as a positive one.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning and welcome!!! DSFDs are SO COOL!! They are dogs that can truly do *anything* – I was watching one do amazing things yesterday in flyball! Is Skizzle one of the puppies from Dannika?
He is adorable and the session went really well! Great job with your early clicks to build value quickly for touching the prop, then you were great about delaying til she touched it with a foot.
He was looking around in the environment a little, so it was a great decision to get the toy involved (and I love how she got into the toy after the treats – that is terrific!)
You had lots of really good clicks at the end of the session, and there ws a great impulse control moment happening too right at the end: Skizzle had the new prop to think about… and she also had to think about ignoring the bowl of treats on the table. And he did! SUPER!!!!
>>I give away some cookies to try to keep him engaged,>
That was great – reset cookies to keep him moving and so you can get more treats. You can add a ‘get it’ marker t help him know where to look when you toss it way (I think you might have said it but it was hard to hear)
>> and it feels more like mat-work than foot target. >>
Do you mean mat work where he gets on a mat to relax? If it looks similar to that, we can change the prop for this game to something totally different looking (like a shoe LOL) so he easily tells the difference between the 2 behaviors he is learning.
>He’s still learning about training – which probably means I need to try shorter sessions with higher reinforcement rate (and better treats).>
This is absolutely true – these early sessions are mainly about him learning about training and us figuring out how to set things up for him. It went really well! I think he had a high rate of reinforcement here. And you were making really great decisions about what to click.
You can use softer treats that are high value, so he doesn’t have to chew them 🙂 2 other things that can help set up the training environment: if there are distracting noises he was listening to because things were quiet, you can play some music so the distractions aren’t as obvious 🙂
Also, you can get a cheap rubber-backed rug or something to cover the wood floors, so he has really good grip for moving around and tugging without slipping. That will help get quicker responses too!Great job here! I am excited to see more!
Tracy
Good morning (or maybe afternoon for you :)) and welcome!! It is great seeing you here – it has been WAY TOO LONG since I have been to NZ!
Arti is an absolutely stunning puppy, wowza!!! I am so excited to see more!
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
The videos are looking great!On the foot targeting:
>The foot targeting looks a little more like “walk across an object”, but I was thrilled that she was landing feet ON it instead of jumping over or any number of other funny things she tries when presented with a new object with which to interact.>
She was terrific! She was most definitely targeting the object, and trotting across it is fine for now (what she does specifically will vary based on which game it is).
Because she has the super quick Spaniel feet, one thing that will really help is a marker that tells her that she is correct and where to look for the treat. Since you were tossing it here (which was perfect), you can use a ‘get it’ marker rather than a ‘yes’ marker. ‘Get it’ can tell her where to look for the reward (tossed ahead) while with the ‘yes’ marker the dogs often look at us and then track the reward, which can make it harder to get forward focus on lines. And since forward focus on massive lines is the hot trend nowadays 🙂 we are going to install it early with the pups 🙂
The hand target game looked great too – really clear, strong hits!!! Wow! You used “yes” here which could mean “cookie from hand” or you could use a “cookie from hand” marker (I know, so many words LOL!! My goal is to have only as many as needed so we don’t have to remember 10,000 words 🙂 )
Out of curiosity, how does she feel about toys? Also, is she a “Wocker”, as in the working field bred Cockers? I want to get my terminology right 🙂
Great job here! I am looking forward to the official start tomorrow!
Tracy
Good morning and welcome to you and Luna!!
Where in NY are you located? I am a native New Yorker and lived in Central NY for about 11 years 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
And welcome to you and Zora – she is adorable!!! Her hop onto the prop is the cutest thing ever!!!The foot targeting to the prop looked great! She was definitely saying “I PUT MY FEET HERE!” LOL!! Love it!! And great job getting the tugging before and even more fabulous – tugging after the cookies and while you were grabbing more cookies. Fantastic!!! Really great session!
One thing to consider – when tossing the treats, use a marker that tells her that she was correct and where to find the treats. I use ‘get it’ for that – so rather than say yes (which often causes them to look up at us), you can mark her foot hit with the ‘get it’ and toss the treat. This will help maintain forward focus to the prop more easily.
The other thing is that if this might be the same type of mat you might use for running dog walk training, we should use something else for this game – the use for the prop here is a front foot hit and the RDW training is usually rear feet.
The hand targeting went well too! You are doing a fabulous job keeping that toy nice and low so she could really grab it! Zora did really well with the hand target! She is super quick so you might need to toss the treats away on this one too, to get you a heartbeat of time to reset the next rep 🙂
I also loved that t he play session in the middle here was really long and fun for her, so it was not all about work work work – you made it really fun!
Since she was driving to the target so nicely, you start to hold it flat in your hand so it is in front of your palm.
One other cool thing here was by the end, she was not distracted by her dad’s barking! Yay!!!
Great job here!!!! I am excited to see more!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Everyone keeps telling me I have to be prepared for her to act like a BC, and I’m like, yeah, I don’t see it yet.>>
Ha! Nope, you’ll see the whippet shine through and that’s a great thing too! There are some amazing things that BWs can do in terms of powering out of turns which come from the whippet.
>> If she winds up in the middle of her parents’ ranges for weight, she will weigh pretty much the same as the terriers though (mine are 23-27 lb).>>
Yes, she’s likely to not weigh a lot. One of my whippet mixes is 15 inches tall and 13.5 lbs. And my male BorderWhippet is about 21 inches tall and weighs 32 lbs. My full whippet is 22 inches tall and weighs a whopping 28 pounds LOL!! So she might end up being a good height and very light.
>>I’ve done Rachel Pearson’s stimulus control stuff,
Super!!!!
>>(and why I kinda dislike the idea, but see that it’s useful) >>
Omg I totally relate. I have found that having a few powerful markers that I can use consistently helps for training. And in many of the other moments in life, the dogs read context so brilliantly that I don’t worry about it as much 🙂
>> I would use “good” as the marker if I wanted her to stay in position to be fed. >>
Excellent marker to have!
>>I guess I do have a “get it” cue for a thrown cookie, but I think I mostly use it when they are already looking at me?>>
That’s something to consider as you work out your marker system with her. I have a get it that means “that’s correct, focus forward because the reward will be out ahead” and it’s been great for getting the dogs to *not* look at me when I want forward moving behavior.
>>For the nose marker, I’ve been working on a chin target behavior with a Tupperware lid (to be able to teach a head flat on the floor trick) recently and wanted this to look different which is why I held it that way.>>
Smart!!! To make it look different – when you do the chin target, is the target in your palm and palm facing up (back of hand facing down)? If so, based on where this hand target builds to, we can turn your hand so the palm is perpendicular to the ground and extended away from you. If that’s still too similar looking to the chin target, let me know and we will take a different approach.
Tracy
Good morning! I love this video!!!
In terms of what you did:
Excellent pattern games to bring her arousal level and attentional state into the higher zone… then she was great with the volume dial, even with Misia in the ring running and tugging. Then back to patterns and into the snuffle mat, to bring the arousal level back down and decompress a bit (because she was going to get to work, so she didn’t need to stay in that high arousal level). Lu was fabulous!>There was some excitement in the middle of it all 😳🤣 but Lu handled it really well. I thought that would have terrified her but she was fine. >
That was GREAT and it is exactly why we do all of this resilience work: something very unexpected happened. Lu definitely noticed, but basically said “that was unexpected” and never lost engagement with you, didn’t get concerned about anything even with the loud crash or the very direct BC stalking LOL! None of the humans freaked out (good job humans) and so neither dog freaked out. You just carried on as if it was all completely normal.
That kind of experience will go a long way to helping her trial career because she can shrug off unexpected things, even if they might be startling. Love it!
It was also hilarious and Jen’s face made me laugh out loud LOL!!!!!!
Great job here!!
Tracy
