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This sounds like an amazing adventure! And I will keep my eyes open for properties. I don’t know a lot about AL other than the weather can be the opposite of Alaska, and not in a good way LOL! Greasy humidity, heat, tornados, etc. I know lots of folks who have moved to TN and loved it!!!
T
Good morning! Thanks for the info!
To be honest, I think her response to the puppy play event was pretty normal. A big dog came in way too forward, 10 asked the puppy to back off with her body language, the puppy did NOT and got even pushier. Then another puppy came at her? Poor 10! It was all too much. I think all of my dogs would have had a similar response and I really can’t think of any BC puppy that I know who would have enjoyed that style of interaction with other dogs.
I agree with you about NOT letting the puppies work it out especially since 10 already asked the other puppy to back off.
Getting her out of these and NOT putting her back into that situation was the right thing to do. I am glad she was able to eat a bit. The skittishness after that was probably because she was nervous about another puppy jumping on her again.
About the other stuff you describe – some of it might be noise sensitivity? Like the other dogs barking, vacuum, etc. Have you seen noise sensitivity anywhere else, like dogs barking in agility? Or another dog doing the teeter?
I think some of this is OK – like hiding from the vacuum, I hide from it too hahaha but it is weird and loud so she opts out from being near it (normal BC behavior, and the other normal BC behavior around vacuums can be attacking them).
She also might not like change (like when you are packing stuff away, so packing the house up might be a bit stressful for her) or things that are out of her control (BCs like to control things LOL!)
>If the other dogs bark back at the golden next door, 10 backs up almost in a hop and wants nothing to do with it.>
She might not like strife – if the barking is really loud and maybe even angry, she might want out of there instead of joining in (I prefer my dogs don’t join in!)
So you can provide decompression outlets for her so she can guide herself into them when she feels uncomfortable. That can letting her have her quiet spot in the closet, along with chew bones that only she can access (with apologies to the other dogs :)) or you can provide for her by giving them to her. That can give her a way to soothe herself and a really good coping option. (Snuffle mat, bully stick, etc.)
In your household of dogs, does she have a favorite friend who does not get worried about anything? If so, you can pair her with that dog and use social learning too – for example, my whippet is not worried about *anything* at all, so each of the two younger dogs were exposed to new/weird things with him at their side. That way they could see him being confident (and quiet haha) and they totally learned from that. My BC-ish dog was a lot more worried about noises and people when he was really young, so I taught him a lot of coping skills and paired him with the whippet… now he is VERY solid and confident everywhere.
>Last night during scent work class all the ring gates fell when we were walking in for our turn. 10 didn’t seem to care at all about that.>
This is good! So she doesn’t have a generalized noise fear. Yay!
Keep doing pattern games and other coping skills, and taking her feedback about what concerns her so you can help her out. BCs can be different, behaviorally, than other dogs and more emotional in some ways (especially when hormones get involved- has she had a season yet?)
>I have only had one time she would not take sirloin. That was during one of our very first visits to the airport. Our lifestyle demands airport training. So, we start them young. I love that our airport encourages dog training inside. We were sitting on a bench, near all the animal displays. 10 was very concerned about the moose across the way. I just sat with her and finally she came around and asked for her sirloin.>
I love that the airport encourages dog training!!
Reading this… I imagine at least a few of my completely normal dog would be concerned about a giant moose in the airport. It is definitely weird to see that, so I can see why she needed to sit and watch it for a while. My 10 month old puppy would probably bark at it LOL! He is half Malinois and will alert a bit to very weird things (but also gets paired with the whippet who will not alert to anything, so the pup doesn’t alert much at all anymore) But in his defense: from a puppy’s perspective, it is definitely weird!!
>10 was off leash, I thought letting her decide where she wanted to go or not good was for the best. She stayed close to me the entire time. The furthest she ventured was about 4-5 chairs down to meet the little puppy and the person. >
Awwww I love that after a bad experience she still went to meet the other puppy <3 Bear in mind that she doesn’t need to ever be in a big social play group like a doggie day care scenario - if she doesn’t want to play with big dogs wrestling, that is perfectly fine! She just needs to co-exist and be happy nearby and ignore them 🙂 That is pretty normal BC behavior. As you saw in the agility area, she was a happy girl in that environment: being around other dogs but not being pummeled by them, and getting to work! That is a joyous time for a Border Collie 🙂
So we will keep looking at where she needs help and which games/coping skills work best, and help her out. And as she enters the crazy time of adolescence, we will balance all of that with plenty of simple happy times with no pressure because the adolescent brain doesn't do well with pressure.
Tracy
Hi!
She was so cute climbing all over this stuff here!! Would this normally worry her? You can hide treats in it so she has to climb and search them out: excellent brain work!!!>She submits and pee when meeting new dogs and some people.>
This is normal for many, many 7 month old puppies. Ask people to greet her while staying upright and not petting her so she doesn’t pee 🙂 And don’t let dogs rush her where she will want to roll over and pee.
>I took her to a puppy play event to practice MYOB games. That was an utter fail. She went into flight mode even when I backed up over 50’ from the dogs. At first she was curious, but couple of the larger breed puppies pushed her to uncomfortable.>
Was it kind of like a dog park or doggy day care situation? Sounds like she was interested in it, sorta, but then got turned off then the larger dogs were too forward. Sounds like it was overwhelming!
> I immediately walked her out to the door and just asked her to sit with me far from the puppies. I did finally get her playing the up and down game and then interacting with a toy.>
Good for you! It sounds like the environment was just tooooooo much. Let me know more of what it was like and then I can tell you if you should be worried or not. Most Border Collies HATE the wild doggy day care/ dog park situations.
>Then went to the agility arena where they were running dogs. In that environment she was a rock star. Could focus on the game and stay engaged with me. She wasn’t concerned about any of the other dogs or people. She went into work mode.>
Sounds like a far, far better situation. Yay!!!
>We hit the road in February. We will be living in the fifth wheel for a couple months, traveling to nationals and other opportunities.>
FUN!!! Hope to see you on the eastern side of the country?
> So far it’s all, don’t let the other dogs bark when she is around, >
I have 9 dogs in the house right now, I don’t know how to let my puppy lead a normal life without the other dogs barking LOL!!! Question: what is causing a fear response from her, in terms of the other dogs barking?
>keep her separated >
I don’t think this is entirely useful, but let me know what might be happening and we can plan?
>and bc’s fears only escalate as they grow up. >
That is not true for all border collies and we can certainly help her deal with whatever is worrying her.
>I cannot separate her from the pack, I can offer safe space and soothing, but I’ve got to believe she will mature out of this.>
Let me know what is going on and I can send ideas 🙂 And maturity helps – she is entering adolescence and that is a challenging time 🙂 But we can help her out too!
>Maybe this is nothing. I don’t see a huge problem. I just don’t like that she runs and hides when she is concerned. On a side note, if I call her, she comes immediately. So, she knows I’m a safe space.>
I do like that she tells you when she is concerned!!! Will she eat really high value food when she is concerned? We can develop a plan to help her out. Send me a list of what she has been concerned about and we can make a plan 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Wow, you are having great weather!!! I am jealous!!!!>I’m very excited that he was able to focus and play, despite some distractions>
This was amazing!!!! He had so many options to explore in the environment and lots noise in the background… but he was a barrel wrapping pro. Super!!!! The wrapping looked good like it did at home – that is really nice to see that the different environment didn’t really change the behavior. Yes, you can keep doing some field trips 🙂 and you can bring the other barrel games on the road, like turn and burn and the rocking horses.
Strike a pose is looking great!! Yes, when the cookie toss went awry, he didn’t always go over the jump bar on the way to you – no worries though, that will go away as we put the serp into context more. The next step here is to have a food bowl on the ground, just past the foot where you are rewarding him – that way he can come into your hand then directly to the food bowl (then you drop the food into it :)) He is touching the hand really strongly right now, but as we add the food bowl, he will kind if side-swipe it and that is great (we are going to be fading out the hand target soon).
On the rotated sends: I am loving how well he is going to the barrel on the forward sends! For the rotated sends, you can help him get the idea on the first couple of reps by placing the empty food bowl halfway around as a visual aid… then move it around bit by bit until he is all the way around the barrel. That will smooth out the first couple of reps, which are the ones where he has the question. Once he gets into the groove, he is quite lovely around the barrel and won’t need the bowl.
On the backing up – I agree, I like the lower platform better. You were getting true backing up there! Yay! For the taller one, he was hoisting his hind end up on it more than stepping back onto it, so you can stick with the lower one so he steps backwards. You can start to get more steps backwards by moving yourself gradually further back, but sometimes rewarding fewer steps (ping ponging like you mentioned :))
Looking at the rocking horses:
>I might try replacing the soft barrel with a 2nd hard barrel, to discourage the barrel-bashing.>
Yes, I think this is a great idea! He never tried to smash the hard barrel, he wrapped it every time. On the hard barrel, he did seem to enjoy smacking it especially at the beginning of a session LOL so try it with 2 hard barrels and let’s see how he does.
Most of the reps here were very smooth – the front cross worked best when you made a big connection as he exited the first barrel and before he got to the 2nd barrel. It is a bit slow motion right now to be sure you get connection. If you were too fast to look forward to send to the next barrel (:50, 1:23, 1:51), the connection was breaking – and he would read it as a blind cross and end up going to the other side of you. So make that connection last until he just about arrives at your side, then you can send forward to the next barrel.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
>Do you have a word for the different tunnel entrances? I cannot upload a pic, you are headed to a curved tunnel, the dog is on your right, the obvious side is to the right, the dog has to come into you to take the left entrance. Two different words or just call the dog in?>
Yes – the obvious line is “tunnel”. And for the non-obvious line where the dog has to come towards me, my verbal is “kisskisskiss” 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>The one Cato did move- the tip was on the low setting – he loves to slam that thing – I could raise it. It will be a while before we can move all that outside!>.
You can totally raise it, put a disc under it, add weird things – make it a playground LOL!
On the serp video: The jump angle was good here!!
The first rep and last rep were the best ones in terms of you staying in motion the whole time and releasing as you got closer to the exit wing. The other reps had more stopping and you were a little more in the center, which worked but we want you to be able to move like you did on the first and last reps.So with that in mind… since his miss here (and previous misses) were on the slice, he might be one of the dogs who does better starting from position 3 (the highly angled position) because it might be easier than the slice for him. He would be in the stay in position 3, but your line is the same (walking around and through serp position, parallel to the bar) and release when you are arriving at the exit wing. Let me know how he does with that!
Great job 🙂
Good morning and happy New Year!
He did really well with the tunnel threadle in both directions! Super!! He did look a little tired on the last rep, so a shorter session as you mentioned is great, or even switching to a different toy to keep things spicy 🙂
One suggetsion: say the verbal 2 or 3 times before you let him go, so he is really processing the verbal before moving. By doing this, you can move him a little further back from the last position you had here – that way you can use your threadle verbal to get the other end, or angle him a little differently and use your regular tunnel cue to get the closer end.
For your tunnel threadles, are you planning on using the opposite arm? You can add that here too: dog-side arm holds his collar, and you can be showing the opposite arm while you say the verbal, before you release him.
On the parallel path video:
>He wasn’t having fun at first and then I realized that a setup cookie isn’t a reward. Rewards made quite a difference!>
Yes, the first couple of reps had praise but no reward for the jump, only the re-start cookie so he was not that into it. He definitely preferred the cookie tossed as the reward (starting at :30). You can also throw a toy then trade for a cookie then restart with a cookie. Your timing was generally really good, getting the reward thrown before he arrived at the jump – that kept him looking forward. Yay!
I think you can add more motion to hi – jogging and running! The more you move, the more you will want to connect back to him to support him choosing the line instead of watching you move 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>You’ll see/hear me discuss the nip at my shirt before we started. Clearly this game has become an exciting one lol! >
If you are getting nipping even before a session starts, you can bring her into the session with a combination of tugging and pattern games, to help her regulate the arousal.
Good job placing the toy and rewarding her for walking away from it! Did she bite your leg at :32? Looks like she reached over and tagged you there. For arousal regulation there – rather than hand feed her on the way back to the barrel, you can do the back and forth pattern game. That will maintain the engagement but also give her an outlet for arousal regulation (the movement and the rhythm of the pattern).
The game went really well! Nice job with the verbals, connection, and motion!!!!
>I did add a jump on the go. This isn’t new to her.
Do you have a jump bump? She did weird things over the bar on the first rep 🤣😂 so using a bump can be a bigger visual for her to get better mechanics. The other reps looked good but a bump can promote better form in general at this stage.
>She’s really trying to sort out the “get it” cue. This video doesn’t show it but our first round when I yelled go and the. Get it- she looked around for her cookie… no idea how this happened.>
Maybe there was food scents, or the toy was dead and she was thinking about the thrown food? No worries though, I think she did really well!
>Most proud is this is a high value toy and she’s not running off!!!
>Yessssssss! She was really great with that too! Lovely session overall.
I think you should move to the advanced level of the rocking horses, because it has a lot of countermotion getting added and she seems ready for it 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
>It’s nice to see a little progress with more regular work. Skizzle gets pretty excited for training, which is also fun.>
Tremendous progress!!! So fun to see! And he is an absolute blast to watch, I just love him!
>
>I have a question about this. Skizzle prefers to grip close to my hand and will re-grip to do so. Yesterday he did get my hand (ouch). He does this even with long toys – part of it may be on the ground close to him, and he’ll jump up in the air to grab the toy closer to my hand. So what approach do you use with puppies that don’t mind biting your fingers/hands?>I do a couple of things –
I have gigantic long toys with multiple things to grab onto. They are either a bunch of toys tied together, or a crazy flyball toy which are built to protect our hands while the beasts come at us at 35 mph LOL!And they are long enough that I can fully stand up while tugging – I can still be engaged and tugging, but that keeps my hands further away LOL!
And if I throw a toy, it is a long one and I always pick up the end furthest from the dog’s mouth (you picked the toy up closest to his mouth in the parallel path video and got a tooth hug).
*Most* tooth hugs are totally accidental (like if I am reaching for the toy at the same time the pup is driving into it, I might get teeth on flesh). *Some* tooth hugs are 100% deliberate 🙂 like if I am fully upright with a 5 foot long toy and the pup jumps up to grab my hand or my clothes.
For the accidental ones, I might give a small yelp and then adjust my mechanics. And most of the time, the pup adjusts his mechanics too.
For the deliberate ones, where my hands were clearly out of the way and the pup had to leave the ground to grab my hand… I might yelp and stop the game for a heartbeat. That is a response cost for the pup in that the effort he made to leap up and get grabby is not worth it, because the game ends for a bit. I try to keep it unemotional and just informational for the pup.
On the get out video: he is loving his prop! Such great commitment! His happy hops onto it were *adorable*
Since he was so fast to go to the prop, you were correct to toss the cookie behind so you could get a bit of a head start. When you were stationary and far from the prop (like at 1:46) he was not as sure about going to it (looking at the prop then at you, trying to figure out if he should follow arm cue or lack of motion). He sorted it out nicely on the last rep, but we can add motion now because it is a cue he will see in motion:
You can move the prop further away from the cookie toss (closer to the camera, in this setup) and begin moving up the line: toss the treat all the way back to the blue tarp area, and slowly walk forward parallel to the prop. When he gets the treat, you can show him the ‘get out’ arm and as soon as he says “I can do it!” you can also begin adding the verbal cue as you do the physical cues.
His barrel wraps get better and better every time I see them! Very cool! Yes, he is a little better on the right turn side (clockwise) but as you mentioned, could be a combination of your side preference and his side preference. His left turn/counterclockwise is coming along nicely too! For the left turn side (when he is on your right) you can help him out with a slower hand/leg cue, and more connection (eye contact). That can help him process things on the harder side.
Have you decided what you want your wrap verbals to be? I think he is ready for you to add them! And also, you can start the turn and burn variation on this, with you starting a FC earlier and earlier.
Looking at the rear cross videos:
>We tried rear crosses in the hallway and corner inside. What a speedy, spinny thing.>Yes! He grabbed that treat and was turned in a heartbeat, so fast!
> He gave me pause with all that spinning – pondering the frustrated spinning dogs I’ve seen on agility courses.>
He was not doing frustration spins here – he was (correctly) turning to where he could see you. In other words… you were late on some of them 😁 so he turned to your position, like a front cross. To get the RC in these early stages, he needs you to be fully visible on the new side, past his shoulder, as he lift his head from the treat.
You can see that at :17 and 1:30 on the hallway video, and at :21 on the corner video. In those spots, he automatically turned to the RC side based on your position.
On the other reps, he saw you still on the original side, so he turned towards you like a FC. You can reward those, because he is correct.
Because he is speedy, we need to figure out how to get you to the other side faster/sooner (and you were hustling!!) I think getting him to eat the cookie more slowly or take longer to find it will help. So to get the cookie eating more slowly: try tossing a couple of small treats, so he has to snarf them all up (rather than just 1) and that might buy you time to get to the other side sooner. Another option is to use a small snuffle mat or bathmat with a high pile, so it takes him longer to find and eat the treat – that can but you time too!
> But part of why I’m here is to learn to communicate well with him – so hopefully we can avoid frustration (and spinning).>
Yes to the communication! But this was not frustration spinning at all, he seemed happy to eat all these treats and turn to wherever he could see you 🙂
He did well with the parallel path to the ‘bar’! To help give him a bigger visual, you can add jump uprights (or barrels or cones, whatever you have) to each side of the bar. That will lead you smoothly into the strike a pose concept transfers and the new game coming next week 🙂
And as he is moving towards it, you can mark and throw the reward even sooner: think of it as marking his intent to move to the bar rather than his arrival at the bar – and the earlier reward throw will help him keep looking forward and not at you.
>And we did some schpile. He seems unfazed by different textures and movement underfoot – which is great!>
Totally agree – it didn’t matter to him what was in your pike, he was happy to walk all over it, make it move, balance on it, etc. Super!!! Since he is so confident, you can add more arousal into it so he learns to use his body well when he is super excited (which is exactly what he will need to do in agility :)) You can do that by starting each session with tugging and a recall from a cookie toss to tugging… then a couple of treats on the pile. Then back to crazy tugging, wild recall, etc. His footwork on the pile might get messy but that is fine – reward anyway as he sorts out how to use his body and balance, even in higher arousal.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
I love that rug, by the way 🙂
Turn and burn is going well!
To give yourself more room to run, you can move the barrel all the way to one end of the rug so you can run the other way and have a bit more room indoors. But she is definitely ready for this game to go to bigger locations too!
Two suggestions:
– At the start of each rep, you can line her up with a cookie – she didn’t know what to do to restart and didn’t like being physically moved or grabbed (she was avoiding it a bit and had her ears back, big eyes, low tail). And with a cookie line up, you can also be clearer on when to start – you can put your hand on her collar, start the verbal wrap directional, then send her to it. That will allow you to get the verbals attached too!
– you were doing a post turn here as she wrapped the barrel. You can do a front cross to get even more countermotion commitment going.
Since this is going so well, you can start doing the FC even earlier and earlier. And you can stat the rocking horse game too!
Great job :) Tracy
Hi! I think this tugging looks really good!
The long toy is great, it is soft in case there are any teething issues, and you were moving it away, keeping it low, and keeping it “alive” for her… but not making it hard for her to grab onto by moving it too fast or too high. This style of play gives her something to chase and grab onto, and is looking like she really enjoys it!And she likes a bit of ‘smack da baby’ too 🙂 Fun!
>If I don’t keep tension on the tug, she loses interest and is done. If I play hard and rough, she growls and enjoys it more. >
Yes, if the tug goes ‘dead’ she is seeing it as an end of game, almost a cue to drop it. Whippety dogs lose interest when the bunny is dead LOL!
And I was glad to see how easily she will ‘out’ it and also eat a cookie. That will be very useful during training sessions!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>1: how do we know when they are done if we send off for a run?
Through observation – how long does it take them to come back? How are they when they come back? Or, if you call them back, how are they when they come back (if they do come back). I tend to wait for them to come back and if it takes a long time, I don’t do another session right then.
>2- how do I know if I’m cuing go for a run as a take a moment or it’s just considered a “play break/training break”>
I think they will look like basically the same thing – a release from the pressure of the training session to have a break. No need to worry about it, just observe how they act and what happens after the break.
> she doesn’t necessarily take her moments – occasionally we get that jumping up: is that frustration for her making a mistake ( and me trying to adjust but she still knows it’s wrong answer) or her taking a moment? >
That is indeed taking a moment. A decompression that the dog ‘takes’ is not always sniffing or running off. If the dog needs a decompression because of frustration or a need to regulate arousal, then you can definitely get biting. That means you waited too long before taking the break and/or allowed frustration to come into play.
> I see that as a taking a moment yes?>
Possibly yes, also possibly the session when on too long and arousal level dropped.
>Also For Julee: I started teaching the on off switch for obedience. Wasn’t sure how felt about it but it’s something kamal teaches to help in the venue. I do think Julee knows it bc when we go to train she tootles around until I say ready steady and then it is game on. She’s alert ready and focused. >
Most dogs get that built into training. Be careful about letting her do too much of the ‘before’ stuff at this age because we don’t want the need to do that to get built in – that can impact her ability to enter a new environment and get to work without toodling around first.
>When we are done training: I don’t know if I’m cuing what you consider the moment: I use her “all done” cue which means she can go sniff, run about, grab a frisbee, go for a run etc but we are done training.>
Possibly – again, it depends on what happens next. Observation is the key here to know if the decompression we think we are helping with, is actually helpful for the dog.
Tracy
Hi! Happy New Year!
The shpile game went well!! On the very first transition from the tugging to the pile, it took a moment for him to center himself and think about getting his feet onto the stuff. In the second and third transitions, though, he was immediately balanced and moving well onto the objects. Yay! He put himself onto the objects that didn’t move – so next time you can tug nearer the inflatables/unstable surfaces and see if he can immediately get on those.
When the weather improves, you can take this outside to be able to do recalls. And you can use the other dogs as well – he watches with you while Dellin does a recall, perhaps, then he does the pile then a recall. That will make it more challenging than it sounds! And when you are able to do some baby dog grids outside, you can do the recall or tugging right before it too!
Nice job on the serp helping him out by taking out the motion at first and shaking your serp hand. He was far more successful with the motion after that! He still needs you to move pretty slowly when he is on the slice line, because that is probably where the motion supports the wrong line (to the bowl) the most – the more perpendicular angles were easier with movement.
You can repeat this session and add a little more motion. Since it is hard, you can angle the jump so the exit wing (near the bowl) is pushed away from you. Your line and his line and the bowl placement are the same, but the jump is angled slightly towards him. That way the bar is more visible as a way to get to the bowl, and the line around the jump to the bowl is harder to move on. Then when the motion is easier, you can angle the jump back to the ‘flat’ position.
Great job here!!
TracyHi! Happy New Year!
This session went great! Because you were indoors, using food was the total correct thing to use as the reward – not enough room for racing to the tug! If you get to a bigger place, you can try it with the toy too!
The things that helped him be most successful were when you stepped to the cone with the dog-side leg, and when you held your position until he arrived at the line on the ground. He nailed it every time when you did that! Super!!!
If you didn’t step the cone as clearly, he was not always sure of when to start (especially on your left side, you are a better leg-stepper on your right side :))
There were only 2 times when he didn’t wrap:
At :30 – he came off the cone because you moved too early (just as he arrived at the cone and before he arrived at the line). You can reset him with a cookie right away there, no need to ask for him to do a touch or anything to earn it (it was handler error). The same early movement might have happened at 2:19 (it was definitely more subtle) but also it might have been fatigue because there were a lot of reps at that point. You can limit to maybe 4 or 5 on each side, to avoid fatigue – there were 25 sends here, which is a lot.
For the next session, add your wrap verbals! You can do this by holding his collar, saying the verbal 3 or 4 times, then let go and step to the wing. That way he can hear and process the verbal separately from the motion (and it predicts the motion), Plus, it will give him a clear “start now” moment when you let go of the collar and step to the cone.
Great job!!!
Tracy
That concern is valid! And that concern is also why we have to start it now… if we don’t, then she won’t have the regulation tools that she needs when things get REALLY exciting (I mean, the prop games are not that exciting LOL!) and there is no food in the picture. She will bite you 🙂 The prop games are where we work out all of those issues, arousal included, so it does not get built into agility at all.
So add the ready dance in small pieces: tiny bit of bend of knees, tiny bit of muscle tension, bent elbows, look at her… then send to the prop (or give her a cookie). Don’t start with a big READY READY READY and rocking back and forth, that is too much. And if you do a little bit and she sends herself to the prop? Cool! You can reset her with a cookie because that sending herself is a far better activity than biting you.
Let me know how it goes!
