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Good morning!
>I think the part of it that’s she struggling with is the cookie toss to dead toy with no motion from me. >
I agree! You can build it up separately, with less pressure to do a ‘thing’ 🙂 Since she went to the toy really well with even just a little movement of your outside arm. So you can do a couch game at home: cookie toss one direction, get the toy the other direction. You can start by pointing and then fade out the pointing… and you can sit and relax on the couch the whole time, no other movement 🙂 A good winter game LOL!!
And for the threadle behavior:
>I think I like the idea of changing the picture and doing it with the manners minder and just taking the toy out of this exercise until she figures it out and then bringing it back when she’s fluent. >
Yes – you can get the threadle skill with the MM or cookie bowl that you toss the treat into (she will like that little bit of opposite arm movement). And if you play the couch game separately, we will be able to add the two together. Dead toys as placed rewards can be useful so it is worth it to build up the fun of that 🙂 But also there are a zillion ways to train things so we don’t need to rely on the dead toy placement – we can get passionate performance of the behavior with different approaches to reward placement and timing.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>Cheese is one of julee highest and Gouda ( that’s how I know about the cubes) and that’s what I used big chucks too. >
Cheese is yummy! And Costco often has giant bags of the pre-cubed cheese 🙂 But also cheese is the ‘normal’ reinforcement for many dogs so in a much harder environment, you will want to rock her world by whipping out something totally different.
>I tried the frisbee. Really never thought she would say not to it. I mean you have seen her with the frisbee!>
Yes, that indicates that the environment must have been hard for her!
>she was either on Leash or left to her own. >
She is too young to be left on her own – it is like giving a 12 year old kid the keys to the car and hoping for the best LOL!!! So leashing her is good (but doesn’t really provide mental breaks). A portable crate is a good one to bring along, so you can just pop it up and she can chill for a minute between reps.
>Undecided if I’ll go back. It was an ackward situation but I wanted to get julee out bc she needs it>
Working in different environments at this age and sorting out reinforcement needs in those new places totally outweighs the awkwardness of the situation, so definitely go back! Sort all that out now, so you don’t have to worry about it at all in the future 🙂
T
Good morning!
I am glad you are recovered from the plague!!! Lots of good stuff in his NFC runs here 🙂
On the first video, you might have felt rushed but you didn’t look rushed – super nice jump of going in and playing, doing tricks, getting a lineup, etc. It looked very much like what you do at class and that is really good to help him get comfortable in the trial environment.
At :35 – I was not sure if you wanted the line to the tunnel? Set yourself up to be further ahead to show the line even if you use a wrap start instead of a short lead out, so he sees the connection and motion to the tunnel.Video 2:
Great engagement when the leash comes off ! Then keep playing with him 🙂 Your videographer asked where your ring ritual was and she was correct – keep the engagement and play going at the line rather than just walking out to the jump.
Nice short lead out with forward focus to the first jump at :25! YAY!
You can add more BIG connection on the opening line but don’t stop and fix things – stopping can be frustrating for him, so if he runs past a jump that is a cue to you to ramp up your connection or stay closer to the line (or both :)) The first 2 jumps looked great then he struggled a bit to stay on the line and drive ahead, so staying a bit closer to the jump in these early stages of trialing will really help.
Your videographer asked why you were whispering LOL so you can totally use big loud verbals 🙂 But overall a really good run!
3rd video –
He is reading some motion cues as the release from the stay so one thing you can do is line him up on a bit of an angle on the first jump rather than totally straight to it – mainly so you can just walk forward on the lead out to get around the first jump, rather than lateral then forward. The break happened when you walked forward and moved your shoulder/arm. And remember you can bring a cato plank or board or mat into the ring for UKI NFC runs to help with the stays!And try to un-pair motion with the release – on the 2nd stay here, you turned forward as you released, which might be what he thinks the release is (turning forward).
What you did on the previous run was great: small lead out, stop moving, cue forward focus to the jump, then release. That really was smooth and clean!
On the first part of this run, you were connected but also you can run a little harder 🙂 When you were connected, with low arms, and running a little more? He found his line brilliantly! (:54 – 1:01 is a great example of that) He also drove ahead n the last 2 jumps really well! Super!!!
>I’ve also noticed he’s backing out of his middle sometimes, not sure what that is.>
I think he was just trying to get a better view of you and the toy? He was excited and that was part of what was happening there, so you can exaggerate the connection a little more during the line up at a trial.
Overall, I think he (and you) did GREAT!! Very exciting that he is now trialing!!! In classes coming up, you can work on driving him even more while staying connected, and building up the transition into the stay with short lead outs, forward focus cue, then the release.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! Lots of good stuff this weekend with Lu!!! And you have a terrific support crew 🙂 I love that they helped you feel good about the first run (they are correct!) and also I love all the cheering!!
In both runs:
– she was locked onto her jumps and did not run past any that you were cuing
– you had a good plan on run 1 and an excellent plan on run 2
– she maintained a really level arousal state, never went into overarousal from what I could see
– fantastic focus on the line at the opening of the 2nd run when you had someone hold her
– fantastic start line stay in the first run!!!
– layering skills, side change skills, and super super fast
– starting from the wrap in the 2nd run mid-course rather than the stay, because the stay mid-course in the first run was a little too much (less lead out on that mid-course stay/earlier release would have helped her be successful)
– you were connected and really smooth in your motion which is a big part of why she found her lines so wellSo definitely there is so much to celebrate!!!
Looking at run 1:
>But then we kind of fell apart after that.>
Definitely didn’t fall apart! Yes, unexpected things happened 🙂 But your support crew was correct in helping you see what happened because it is SO HARD for us to see it in the moment or right after the run!
>I didn’t cue the turn to the tunnel appropriately for her and more seasoned dogs than her were overshooting it as well.>
Exactly! At :22 on that run, you did a forward facing decel… but she was already taking off and looking straight to the jump past the tunnel, so she was correct to get on that line. And I love how she stayed on the line! On the first go-round there you were stationary (probably having a “what just happened” moment LOL) but then you went with it when it happened the 2nd time and finished strong.
So to cue the turn: as she is lifting off for jump 3 at :21 (I think it has blue or purple wings) you would start to decelerate and for her, add a brake arm and a left verbal. She might even need a spin in this early stage of her career, because it will help break through the excitement of the forward motion on jumps 1-2-3 (then we fade the spin out)
>Instead of going around all the jumps, she did take all of the ones on her line back to me. That’s a pretty big win since that’s something she struggles with.>
YES~ Huge win! And I also love how it looks like you got all t he side changes like FCs in both runs, especially on the jump after the tunnel.
And the 2nd run had a course that was friendlier for baby dogs – great plan, she looked great, and you were both wildly successful.
So for planning purposes at trials and classes – you will want to look for big off course lines and plan the timing of turn cues (takeoff of the jump before the turn jump) and how ‘big’ of a cue to give her. Decel alone will probably not be strong enough, and decel plus shoulder turn might also not be strong enough depending on the type of turn. So work those brake arms in and throw in some spins too and see how she reads them.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! I am so glad the surgery went well and he is on the road to recovery!!
I think there is some research about how the hormones are helpful, I will see if I can find it! Or I will ask the people who know how to find it a lot better than I can LOL!!
>Is there anything mechanically you think I could do differently? >
Overall, super strong – but you can be a little less chill as you move into the ring and to the line. The patterns get him engaged to a certain level, but then changing the energy (volume dial tricks or even just a ‘ready ready ready’ moment) will get him into that higher state for really running. In class, he did well – but at a trial, that higher state will be very helpful!
For example, outside the ring he was relaxed. Then as you moved to the line and took off the leash, he kind of wandered away. He came back and set up when you called him, but adding that touch of spice 😁 in the form of a something that ramps him up will keep him engaged when the leash comes off. How much spice to add? That will depend on the environment. For example, in class, you don’t need a lot. But it is good to practice adding a LOT so he can work through the higher arousal levels he is likely to feel at a trial.
>And like I wasn’t sure exactly what I should have him do when I found myself in the situation where I forgot to tie my hair back and had to pause our pattern games to get that done.>
I read this before watching the video and thought something happened when you tied up your hair, maybe he lost focus or something went wrong… nope! He just basically kicked into engaged chill, watched the ring a little, standing on your, stayed engaged enough for the moment and then got more engaged when you were ready. So I thought you handled it well and so did he – it was no big deal, according to Reacher 🙂
> The obvious answer is for the handler to plan better but did I handle it okay?>
It was perfectly ok, sometimes we can’t plan for everything. And teaching engaged chill is perfect for unexpected moments like when we have to tie up hair, tie shoelaces, pull up our pants, talk to someone, etc 🙂 He didn’t seem to have any concerns about it at all.
> I know stepping on the leash is risky but wasn’t sure what my best other options were for ensuring he didn’t take off (the chase instinct is pretty darned strong).>
The 3 options would be to place the leash on the ground, or step on it, or ask someone to hold his leash. Since no one was around and you didn’t want to risk placing it on the ground, stepping on it was fine because it was short term and you needed your hands free. You can give him a little more leash so it is not as tight, I think he felt that and was a little uncomfortable with the leash tension.
>I thought he handled the distractions well for the most part, except on the one rep where I unleashed him and he disengaged to take a look at what interesting dog was coming. So, leash off, engagement on games back on the agenda!>
Yes! I think something as simple as a bit of volume dial or ready-ready-ready before the leash comes off will be all he needs there. Add that spice as you move to the line 🙂
Also note how well he ignored the big dog coming in at a bout 2:56 – that was a big hairy doggo and he was great!
>I’m interested to hear what activities from class (or other) you might recommend once he’s cleared for a bit more action. Like, no jumps but cleared for doing sprints on the flat level of activity. I’m thinking I can bring power bowls to class, leash off/on things, etc.
Let me know what you think.>Can he run sequences without bars, meaning he can rn through uprights? If he is cleared to sprint, you can do stuff like have him drive ahead through uprights to a placed target or thrown reward. That is fun!
And yes, he can do power bowls outside the ring when the MOST EXCITING dog is running.
And you can also add spicy tricks and games at the start line when the leash comes off, then practice leading out (jump with no bar).
Mix in the cerebral games like patterns, leash off, etc with fun silly games where he gets to move.
When is his next NFC opportunity?
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>Second two runs I didnt have enougn time as small classes and two dogs.>
This does make it harder when starting a young dog. Are there classes that you can enter her in and she is the only dog, so you can give her your full attention? And that way you will be less tired and can support the lines better too.
Looking at the first run – yes, she was not really looking for the lines but she was being patient when you sent her back. Part of why she was not seeing the line was because your arm was very high as you were handling (hand above the height of your head). That blocked connection, so remember to keep your arm really low and just run run run 🙂
>broke her wait and went to tunnel>
Be super careful with waits at the start line. If she gets a history of breaking, then it becomes really hard to get the wait in the trial environment. So either ask for a very very very short wait that you are sure she will hold…. Or don’t ask for a wait at all if you don’t think she will hold it. That is where using a behind-the-back start can really help so you can get a good start without breaking the wait.
In the EA run, she held the stay well so that is what you want to target: short stays where you release her before she breaks like you did here.
This run had a good opening and the spacing was much better for her current level. I think for classes that have weaves, you should either end the run before the weaves or skip the class entirely – trying to get her past the weaves got a lot of jumping up and frustration from her, which we don’t want her to rehearse in the ring. So you can end the run early or skip it since there was no easy way to avoid the weaves.
The last run had a twitchy stay – so one thing to work on is getting her to stay while you walk forward and not backwards. She is releasing when you turn to face the jump so walking forward will help you get further ahead on the lead out and also will help make sure she doesn’t break when you face the jump.
You had your arms nice and low on this run, so she could see the connection really well and found the lines really well too. Yay! Definitely keep those arms low 🙂
She had two questions that showed up on the runs:
– finding a jump after a tunnel, especially with you behind her
– finding a straight line of jumps with you behind herSo both of those are good things to set up, where you can have one tunnel and a jump for example, or a line of 3 jumps. The distances can start pretty close so she can be correct pretty easily as you run forward, then you can spread the distances out more and more. Start with her next to the tunnel or the first jump – and you can begin with a placed reward (like her bag) then go to a thrown reward. That can help build up getting her to look forward after tunnels and on the long ending lines of courses.
Great job on these!!
TracyGood morning!
>Another sort of new place: the office at the arena we’ve been visiting.>
Yay!!
> I taught a fitness workshop and stupidly rented the arena for myself immediately after, but the workshop ran over and I lost my arena time
That is a bummer!!!! The office is good but the arena would have been so fun!
> The person renting the arena at that time had a very vocal JRT who I think also had a squeaky toy at one point, so she got exposure to working while listening to all that from the safety of the office!>
That is great! I would call that a nice ‘slice’ of distraction 🙂 I could hear a little barking on the video but she didn’t seem to respond to it at all!
>As far as the threadle slices, I’m still not sure she “understands the assignment”. It’s like as soon as I bring out the note pad hand target, toss the cookie away and then present the target, she is like “I have no clue what you want”.>
One element of it is that the toy on the ground is hard as self-control thing (even though she doesn’t really drive to it, more on that below), plus it is not overriding the visual of the big barrel (which she wants to wrap rather than go over the bump to the toy). Easy fix about the barrel – you can replace it with a wing 🙂
I think there were 2 other things happening here: one subtle thing, and one more obvious thing, which are making things a little harder for the threadle slices-
The subtle thing is that as she moves to the hand target, you are moving your hard towards her nose. So she backs off coming to the hand target (you can see it started off pretty strong and then got weaker as the session progressed). Keep your elbow locked and don’t move your hand at all 🙂
The bigger thing is the reward process for her here: I think there are two things going on. One is that the toy toy marker doesn’t drive her to the toy. You say it and then she kind of looks around. She goes to it when you indicate it like at :39 and 1:39 (your outside arm pointed at it and she went to it immediately). So the marker is not that strong yet (she needs the physical cue to support it). It is possible that a different marker might be stronger t this stage? Maybe a get it marker? She likes the toy when it is interactive with you, but it is not that powerful of a draw as dead toy on the rep.
And the other element of that is the dead toy doesn’t seem to have a ton of value (which might be part of why the marker doesn’t result in her driving to it).
Changing the reinforcement process will make a big difference! We have a lot of options:
– you can replace the dead toy with something on the ground that is more valuable and she will go to immediately: manners minder, or empty food bowl that you then toss treats into, for example.
– Or you can use a thrown toy and the marker for that! The timing of the toy throw would at first be for coming to the correct side (then you mark and throw the toy to the spot where the dead toy is now). Then you start to delay the marker so she comes to the threadle side and turns to the jump – then you mark and throw the toy. She might like that a whole lot!
– A dead toy option is to change the timing of putting the toy down: rather have it down before the rep begins, you can ask her to start from a sit (or from a station) and then let her see you put it down… then resume threadle position and start the rep. Placing it while she is watching and ready can keep it more salient and exciting! You can also use a toy that is more exciting when it is dead? She does like this toy, but she likes it as part of the interaction with you so maybe there is a toy that she is nuts for and will pounce on 🙂> I never really progressed to doing the strike a pose game while having the toy preplaced on the ground.>
My guess is that the toy on the ground there was not a powerful enough motivator for that game either – no worries though, because have a lot of options and create the behavior a lot of different ways.
>The threadle wraps she was suddenly better turning right than to the left today. I thought that exercise went pretty well and added movement and a toy right at the end.>
Yeah! That was a great session! And in a smaller space, she had to really move in to the pressure of your position and she did great in both directions!
So the next steps are to see if she can turn herself away without as much hand motion – start fading out the hand movement to turn her away to the barrel. The best example of that here was at approximately 4:12 where you used less hand cue when you added the verbal and that is the direction you will want to keep going: slow movement up the line, verbal, with very little hand movement to turn her away to the barrel.
And when you have more room, you can add the 2nd barrel to create the rocking horse version of this (and the various advanced levels).
Great job here! Let me know what you think of the ideas for the threadle slice!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I finally got on dirt yesterday>
Yay! She definitely needs to go to new places.
> and I just keep replaying the crap training on my part. >
Try to analyze rather than replay! Try not to obsess.
>Julee went to a new place. Never seen dirt. Didn’t know the person. I was managing her but pattern games were hard and she slipped my hand and – almost cracked the person in the nose. >
Question: what type of food rewards were you using? Since she likes food, you probably want to go up to high octane human grade food. An Egg McMuffin, for example. Rotisserie chicken. Even normal stuff like cheese might not cut it on a hard environment, unless it is smoked Gouda. Dogs love that!
>She couldn’t tug>
Could she play with a frisbee?
>and she thought the dirt was a place to sniff. >
If she has not been on dirt before, then I am sure the dirt smelled really interesting to her.
>She worked when we asked but there was no crates>
You can always have a portable crate or station or something so if you end up in a place without a crate, you can bring one in.
>and it was very hard for me to keep her with me while the person was talking so she sniffed and sniffed and today>
You can also carry a leash in your pocket and leash her up while talking to the person, if collar holding is not comfortable.
>.. when we got to FF she sniffed and sniffed>
She might have just been decompressing a bit. No worries!
On the video:
Since she can tug at FF, did you ask her to tug or play with the frisbee? The thrown treats, even in a lotus ball, can get extra sniffing because cookie smells might scatter and the toy is not really interactive.
Good job rewarding her for coming to you on the FC exit of the tunnel before sending her back to the threadle entry! That helped her realize what to do after the first tunnel (and calling her helped too 🙂 ) Try to call her before she goes into the tunnel and let her see your feet turn for the FC, so she turns tighter on the exit.
Question: for the threadle cue, are you using your dog-side arm or outside arm or both? It was hard to tell – it looks like you started with outside arm then had your dog side arm more involved? I think outside arm might be more visible to her, and also you can keep it in position rather than switch back to the dog side arm. She can learn to send herself into the tunnel so you don’t need to move your arms to turn her to it.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>Yesterday he went to a baby skills seminar at OTR for a couple of hours and got to be in the big ring (a first). He did great -could play with toys and eat food and do the skills. I did a little bit of CU type games when he came into the building (by the back door) and some of his ready to work protocol. I was very proud of him>
Yay!!!! I am happy to hear this! I am not surprised, he has been super with everything!
The threadles are gong well adding motion! Once you begin the rep by moving around the jump, try not to start then stop then start/release. That was getting him a bit twitchy in the stay because it was hard to know if the stopping then moving was being paired with the release. And stopping gave him a look at threadle position at :17, which is why he threadled 🙂
The most successful reps where when you were smoothly moving across the bar and releasing just as you arrived the exit wing. The best example of this was at :37 – perfect!!
The threadles are going really well too! You can move the MM a bit further away so it is more on the slice line exit on the landing side.
Once the MM is on that slice line and he has no trouble with it, you can mix the threadle and serp together in the same session now with some motion with both. That can challenge him to read the cues (rather than separate sessions for each). The MM can stay in the same spot (the threadle reward spot) so as you show the serpentine, he has to pass the MM then he can go around the wing to get to it as the reward.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
This was a good session to reward some driving to the crate and getting her to work for the TT as the marker. Since she’s got crate games in place, she might have been waiting for cues to go in and out rather than offer the behavior – but even without a cue, it is good to get her offering to do it because that will make future shaping even easier.
You can apply this game to shaping something else as well, so she doesn’t wait for cues/releases – it can be something like getting on a platform, sitting in a chair, banging on the end of the teeter, etc. All of this will be good for when we use the TT for things like running contacts, weaves, etc.Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
The tunnel threadles are going well! For this introductory session, being stationary was good. You can move into the double whammy level now, where you will be adding movement (walking:))
>Also funny not funny : julee between the leg is huddle. Never ever thought it would sound like … tunnel. Until it did. Sigh.>
Oh dear, yes I can see that it could be very similar. Maybe change the lineup word? Probably easier than changing the tunnel word 🙂
I agree that the backside session went well too!
>don’t know why I’m in this mind that it had to be perfect and she’s never going to make an error. But she does and we handle it.>
Well, perfect is pretty impossible so it is good to not get concerned if there is an error or two. Errors are a cue to you that you might need to change what you are doing.
At the beginning, she ended up on the front side (not enough connection because you were looking a bit forward ahead of her). You adjusted really well and the other reps had far clearer connection, making it easier for her to find the backside. Yay!
Since we are also trying to teach the verbal – you can use a reset cookie instead of the main reward (toy) if she ends up on the front side when the verbal is in play.
If she gets the toy and same response for everything, then it is harder to diffentiate the verbals. But if there is a huge party with the toy for backside when she hears the verbal versus a reset cookie party if she ends up on the front side, it will help her (the reset cookie rewards the effort).Now, since this is handling and human error is a distinct possibility – if she fails and has an error, help her more on the next rep so she can be correct and get the toy 🙂 My suggestion of a reset cookie doesn’t mean she read the cue wrong 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>>he can’t find the tiny kibbles (they are MINIATURE pieces), so tossing it was frustrating him.
For tossing small treats, you can try a lotus ball or treat hugger to carry the treat that he can then grab by himself 🙂
> We got little stretches of duration, I was able to take a small step away and he was really successful!
Super!!!
He did really well with the threadle wraps! He did better with one hand as you mentioned, but i think that was mainly because the cue was clearer:
The one handed cue was a little slower and the hand was closed, which made it easier to follow. When you were doing the 2 handed cue, your hands were moving faster and on some reps they were open, so they were harder to follow.Also, when you gave him a little more room, he found the threadle line more easily. On the reps at the beginning, you were a little too close to the barrel so he was more likely to go to the other side.
He seems ready to try this on 2 barrels!!
Speaking of 2 barrels – rocking horses went well too ! Yay!! The best reps were when you were very connected 🙂 This was especially true after the spin : when you looked back at him, he knew where to be really well. When you kept your arm at your side, he couldn’t see the connection as well. Reaching back to his nose with your hand will definitely open up that connection after the spin.
He had a question on the left turn sends for a moment – I thought maybe it was because you were too far and not connected as well? But it happened when you got closer and connectedmore, so I that he was probably seeing something that he was moving towards.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
He did great with Find My Face!
>Here is our first attempt at Find my Face….this could be extremely helpful given Ringo’s propensity to get over the top!!!>
Yes, that’s exactly why we teach it! You can reward any semblance of finding you (finding your eyes or hands or glancing at you or coming to your side etc). No need to wait for eye contact especially in higher arousal situations. You can add a little tugging to this game to start letting him learn it in higher and higher arousal.
The barrel racing looks great too! You had great connection and motion, so he knew where to go each time.- the FCs, spins, and race tracks all looked awesome!! Yay! His only question was getting past the stack of step anchors (or whatever that pile was LOL)
Do you have grass outside (as opposed to snow)? This game can totally go outside 🙂 or to the dirt barn? More room will be great fun for you both!
Nice work 🙂
TracyHi! She did well here! The noises and light did distract her a little, but she recovered really well and she didn’t seem concerned about it for long.
For the tunnel threadles – easy peasy when you were just working the turn away. When you were doing the double whammy, I think that adding more motion will help: you can meet her at the tunnel exit as you do your FC, then be moving towards the threadle entry as you cue the threadle (arm and verbal). On the left turns when you were stationary, she was able to get it but she will propel herself better to it. On the right turns, the lack of motion caused her to turn towards you then away – so moving up the line towards the entry will help for sure! And if she still has questions, you can add an arm flick away to help (it is really easy to fade that out).
Speaking of the arm – you can make it more visible across your body back towards her – I think on the right turn side, the left arm was out to the side of you (still on your left side, rather than across on your right). So the change in arm position can help too!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
