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Hi!
The video looks great! Good job waiting for engagement with the pattern game. At first he might have thought it was just moving back and forth, but then he figured out that engaging with you was the key to getting you to throw the reward.
Doing it on leash went super well – the leash adds more arousal and makes it more realistic 🙂 He did really well.
The up and down pattern looked great! And so did the tricks!! You have a really nice toolbox of tricks 🙂 The rest trick got a little harder as he got more excited, so that is good to know because you can ask for it to find out where he might be, in terms of arousal.
So now take these on the road and do them before runs at home, or in class, and keep track of how he does!
>>I get uncomfortable amping Chip up. When he gets barky the wheels fall off in our in-person agility class. I really think I’ll need to focus on tricks to bring him “down” before we go into the ring – lol.>>
Arousal is indeed uncomfortable for us humans!! But actually, getting the dogs amped up (into higher arousal) is actually important for a bunch of reasons:
– they learn how regulate their arousal
– they learn behaviors in the arousal state they will be in, when on course
– a higher arousal state is shown to actually improve performance!We talk more about this in the zoom tonight 🙂 Arousal is our friend and is necessary (especially because he is going to get more aroused when doing agility, with or without us :))
When he gets barky in class – what happened right before it? Get some video if you can! It might be frustration. Or it might be arousal that he is learning to regulate. You can use your pattern games in that moment to help him regulate then start again! Definitely grab some video if you can so we can figure out why he is getting barky in those moments.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Scrolling through the video, I have some ideas for you to help get the engagement you were getting in spots more consistently, and at the very start of each session. When he is engaged, he looks great!One of the things that is super important is that we need to be using higher value reinforcement – he liked the ball (or is that the turnip?) and he liked cheese. Tugging on the fuzzy toy was sporadic, and I am not sure about the other food in the first video but that was also sporadic.
So the ball is a winner (but don’t use to too much because we don’t want it to lose value – does he like squeaky balls or fur toys or squeaky toys?) and the cheese too (but don’t overuse it either). Add in insanely high value stuff that he only gets in the training environment: rotisserie chicken, cheddar cheese, smoked salmon, meatballs… human stuff that is moist and stinky and delicious! Sorting out reinforcement that is irresistible is one of the big keys to this. For example, when my Elektra was young and learning the teeter, she would do exactly one rep for her entire breakfast of raw meat. That made an impact and it definitely was like Christmas for her (more on Christmas below :))
That will really help the pattern games too – he is telling us that while he is experienced in pattern games, the reinforcement available is not significant enough to motivate him to ignore an environment he has been in before, such as GetRevd.
Another big key is going to be making each entry into the ring as exciting as Christmas morning for a little kid. What I mean by that is *amazing things happen* but he doesn’t really need to work much for them. And, like with Christmas, it comes and goes VERY quickly!
To goal of this is to get more immediate motivation and engagement, where he comes out of the crate or into the building or into the ring saying “heck yeah, we are doing a thing!” Rather than the extended sniffing before getting going – that can cause some conflict and delays the engagement/motivation build up (see below).
This means that your sessions need to be short short short short short. As in… one rep and be done. There is a definite tendency to get a good rep or run… then ask for it again and then another one. And about 50% of the time or more, you lose him. So to help build up the Christmas feeling – one rep, massive reward, all done! Merry Christmas!
In a seminar or class, ask the instructor to split your turn in half so if it is a 4 minute turn, for example, you do 2 minutes then be done (ideally, it would be 30 seconds and be done!)
Using the Christmas analogy: there are 5 gifts under the tree, but you run in, open one gift, then run out and he takes a break. He is most definitely going to be like “hmmmm, I am interested in opening another gift!” But that will happen on the next turn.
For example: he liked the fast moving 1-2-3 game in the first video. You can do that as the first gift: 1-2-3-treat, 1-2-3 treat…. Then he is done and can go chill out in the car (or in a big crate, that one seemed a little small for proper chilling LOL!)
Or for the pattern game with the target: Have 3 or 4 targets on the ground, so there is movement (which helps him a lot) a la the Super Bowls game. It will be A Christmas gift moment of out of the crate, move quickly to the first target, you put the treat down to start the game (he doesn’t have to engage before starting the game – we have had huge success with the human starting the game as it turns the pressure off the dog). Then he engages, you go to the next target, then so on til you have done the targets…. Then done! Christmas gift unwrapped, time to let Raven have a turn 🙂 while he chills out in the car.
You can take the same approach with a couple of tricks, or throwing the ball once or twice, or a movement game: One Christmas gift, big fun for mind-blowingly high value reinforcement, then outta there. Lots of movement, lots of short sessions, lots of the ‘surprise!’ element which brings about a dopamine release… which brings about a craving to do more… which bring about motivation to be engaged in the ring.
If you do a sequence? Do it once! You don’t even need a stay. Big jackpot surprise reward… then done! And if something goes wrong with the handling (because it sometimes does 😁) keep going as if it didn’t happen and carry on to a jump or tunnel, then big surprise reward… then done.
The hardest part is that you are going to see a shift in his engagement and you will be tempted to do more… resist! LOL!! Remember that we are creating the crave and doing more does not create that.
All of the games or training that you do can have this Christmas present approach, as long as you have super high value rewards. You can ask him before you start each turn what he thinks of the reward: “How are you feeling about cheese right now, Sieger? No? How bout rotisserie chicken? Yes? OK, let’s party!!” I ask my dogs to choose their reinforcement/motivator all the time.
And if you go in to open a specific Christmas gift (like you wanted to do a rep of weaves) but he is like “no thanks, but this tunnel looks awesome” then you can switch gears and do a tunnel as the Christmas present 🙂
What we are looking for is that every time into the ring (or outside it) is surprising in a good way, short and sweet so he is left wanting more, and building up motivation. He will let you know when he is ready for more.
About the sniffing:
Letting him freely sniff in the ring at this point is going to muddy the water a bit and shift the conditioned response to being in the ring to “I sniff here” rather than “Merry Christmas let’s party!”. And once we get a conditioned response, it will take a lot to shift it to where we want it.
By muddy the water… it will be unclear as to when sniffing is fine and when it is going to be interrupted (I was a little unclear on that in the seminar video, where sometimes it was fine, sometimes it was interrupted). And that will lead to conflict when you don’t want the sniffing and try to interrupt it. That will be especially challenging when you go to new places where you don’t have the available time for the free sniffing, or you will want to ask for engagement right away.
For young dogs, I think of free sniffing to be similar to free peeing 🤣😂 If they wander around and pee on thing while I set a course, I am probably setting myself and the dog up for conflict later on when I am like DUDE STOP PEEING ON THINGS or THIS IS NOT THE PLACE WHERE YOU PEE ON THINGS (and peeing on things can be as decompressing as sniffing 😂🤣). And I definitely don’t want him to spend time in the ring peeing on things, or to have his conditioned response to entering the ring to be “this is where we pee”. Now, replace the word “pee” with “sniff” and it will correlate more directly to him 🙂
So how do we accomplish this without adding pressure or stress?
Since sniffing can be decompressing and useful and even a reinforcement/motivator for some dogs, you can use it as directed decompression – a snuffle mat can be perfect for this! You can have it nearby and add it in after he opens a Christmas present. Or, sometimes just go in, let him snuffle the mat, then get out. That is a nice balance without the conflict, plus you can use it in your hierarchy of reinforcement if he really likes it (a lickimat or a bully stick to chew are also terrific for this). We talk more about decompression tonight in the zoom!
Nice work here!
Let me know what you think!Tracy
Hi!
Hi!>> happens indoors as well as outdoors.>>
For now, let’s hold off on trialing, even NFC, til we’ve hashed out what he will play with in the ring and worked the first few remote reinforcement games. Check them out and let me know what you think!
You can also ask people in your class to come into the ring to act as leash runners, judge, ring crew, all the things he will need to get used to seeing. 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, I feel the pain of the “Don’t Ruin The Baby Dog” pressure LOL!! You did great!
I think he had a great time. And yes, sometimes the course designs are not great for NFC but you still made it fun 🙂For the tugging, keep reminding yourself to give him the full length of the toy – that will let you be more upright and also let him pull back more. I remind myself to slow down too, I think the time pressure of NFC makes me want to go really fast, but that’s not good for mechanics 🙂
>>They play often, but there was a much higher level of zoomies involved. I think it may have been a bit of decompression from the event! >>
Totally agree! Sounds like a big decompression zoom 🙂 and that is great!!
>>BTW – Reacher almost caught another rabbit tonight before it managed to squeeze under the fence gate at the last second. It was quite a chase >>
Ha! He was trying to add to your toy pile LOL!!!
Great job!
TracyHi! Thank you for sending this!
On the first couple of runs: was he able to come back and do anything? He found the situation challenging for sure, so I was curious about whether he could come back.
He definitely settled in on the last couple of runs – good job doing a really short and sweet one to help with that.Yes, it is a very big leap from lotus ball and treats with you in the ring, to nothing here. I thought the start lines looked really good and he did his tricks too! You can do more of those as you move to the line 🙂 and you can also jog to the line, as that will keep things spicy and exciting too!
Leading up to the next trial, we need to take a 2-pronged approach:
– finding a toy that you can bring into the ring. I’ve used a furry lotus ball (never had food in it) tied to another toy, and I’ve also used tennis balls and frisbees in UKI.
– >>long term I do need to start fading the ball to remote reward>>
Yes, that would be a top priority now. He definitely needs to learn how to run full courses without reinforcement in the ring. We start the steps of that this week! Start these very small steps to build up the understanding.
These two things will let you be able to work the NFC progressions, which will make trialing much easier 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
I figure other folks might want to read this too so I will put our discussions here as well 🙂 We chatted back and forth on Facebook Messenger because that is often the fastest way to discuss things during a trial day 🙂 That option is open to anyone on FB – send a message! And unless I am teaching or sleeping, I am usually not far from my phone on trial days LOL!! so feel free to reach out 🙂
I thought this was a really fantastic debut. During the week before the debut, Kristin worked hard to figure out what would work as a good toy for NFC: mission accomplished LOL!!! That is probably the biggest win of the day: getting him to play tug in public, as a true reinforcement/motivator.
This is my messenger note to her at the end of the day:
He seemed super happy and VERY into the toy, despite the environment being really challenging (I mean, look at all of those tripods LOL!!!) and he was tugging right next to the photographer.
One of the goals is that we see the same performance (or better) as we see in class in terms of speed and comfort level. I believe you have achieved there here! And he did it all with FAR more distractions like the leash runner right there, the ring crew, judge, etc. He did not even look at them.
Give yourself a big high five for making it GREAT for him – all fun, zero frustration, and a great feeling!!!!!
**************
He had a grand time in the ring, and that is our highest priority. Sure, it doesn’t always work out that way but we will try our hardest to make it happen 🙂>>Biggest learning was that the food box was too weird and small for him to find that rewarding. In fact it was more like punishment so we skipped that in the second run. >>
Yes, we thought that because he is so food motivated that he would love it! So I suggested using it, having a helper in there to help place it there so it would not be a distraction…. Reacher said NOPE!!!! It was way too small (tiny! Eek!) and he didn’t know what it was or why he was going in it and who that rando person was. NOTED! So the best thing to do was to abandon it and not use it for the 2nd run.
And the fast and furious chase-da-momma over obstacles/through tunnels on that second run was great, start to finish.
I suggested the sit as a trick in the ring to get a feel for where he was, mentally: could he respond to a cue? He said yes 🙂 But we don’t want to push that into a stay right away, because a start line stay is actually incredibly complex and stressful in that environment (more on that tomorrow night).
>> with essentially the same plan unless you have any additional suggestions.>>
Since it is day 2, and we know he used a lot of mental (and physical) energy yesterday – we don’t know if he will come in PUMPED UP with adrenaline and endorphins… or if he will come in depleted and mentally tired and unable to do it all again.
With that in mind, your first run might be a replica of yesterday’s first run (but without the food box and with more tunnels LOL!!). If he seems really engaged and feeling excited, you can ask for a trick or two in the ring for the tug toy. If he says “nope” then you can just run run run 🙂
And if he says “nope” in run 1? No worries! Depletion is real and baby dogs often cannot do 2 days in a row.
If the first run is brilliant? You might consider either greatly simplifying run 2 by just doing a tunnel or two then getting out, or skipping it entirely. He is sure to be mentally depleted by run 2, and I want you and Reacher to end on a fabulous note.
My mantra with young dogs is “Don’t Be Greedy” 🙂 So keep your eye on the future of his career: if run 1 is great? Definitely do NOT ask for more in run 2, and consider skipping it entirely so his brain can lock in the memory and learning of the amazing run.
Great job here! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here!!!Food patterns – she wants to do them fast but she also wants to chew the treats, so I think the tiny bits of goat cheese (I too would work for goat cheese!) or ham or string cheese would be perfect. I suggest using sizes that are big enough to be high value but not so big that she ends up with an upset GI system. The chewing is slowing her down and also then there are crumbs on the ground to sniff for, so any high value food that she doesn’t have to put in her molars and chomp 🙂
>>As you predicted when we took our games on the road she was less interested in toy play. She did not care about running dogs or people.>>
She might not overtly want to run over to the to anything, but her brain definitely cared and had some processing to do – but she did great here too!
With the toy, she was definitely interested but the small toy and you bending over was too much pressure so she didn’t really grab it.When you kneeled and it was stationary in front of her – no interaction. But when you kept it moving side to side, behind your knees, and then tossing it? Winner! She even retrieved the ball for more and did fast tricks to get it. Super!
“You’re going to be on TV soon” cracked me up!
>>I have an idea for our feo to bring her holler roller on a long bitey tail>>
Yes – all of the toys in the trial environment should be tried to a longer toy (fur if possible 🙂 ) – the length of the toy should make it so that the toy reaches the ground easily without you having to end over, and it is easy to swing around. Feel free to tie several toys together to make one mid-blowing toy! The movement and the chase of the toy will make things very exciting, especially if you can run and have her chase it. Test drive a couple of those at home, then keep them away from her so the magical chase toys come out only at trials for her to go wild over 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
His barking sounds great 😁 this will be a useful trick! For playing with the ball: I think you will get a better grab on it at home and more interest in it at other places if you move it away from him rather than move it towards him. Let him chase it a bit! And you can tie it to a longer toy, so you can drag it on the ground for him to chase. And when it is in his mouth, let hm do all the work of pulling on it – if you pull too hard, it comes out of his mouth and then he loses a bit of interest.But you can also do the Woo trick and the other tricks for treats! It think he will like that too 🙂
I am glad the pattern games are going well!
>>He struggled more this week when training at the agility training field.>
This is normal – the training field has a lot more distractions and pressure! So to get speed right away, try to bring him in and get his tricks or barking, right among the obstacles as you are taking the lash off… then start with a fast fun send to a tunnel and take off running *without* asking for a stay or a 2o2o on the contact. Just get him doing some tricks and barking, then go go go and take off and run so he can chase you. Taking out the stay or complicated handling will help get the speed and confidence – and both will be added back in pretty quickly.
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
The pattern games work best outside the ring before the run (and before the tricks) so she can process the environment before the run. Big chunks of cheese work well in grass (and a little sniffing in that game is actually a good thing :)) or using the up and down game with cookies on your shoes can work really well too 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
He did really well outside the ring, the pattern games looked really good and so did the volume dial!Yes, he had trouble going to the start line but there were. A couple of factors in play. The top 2 factors were that it is a big leap (pun intended :)) from indoors with food in your hand to outdoors without food – too big of a step forward for now until we add a few more skills to his toolbox. We begin those steps tomorrow!
Also, 2 ideas for NFC runs:
– will he play with the toy on the leash, or a toy in your hand? That can smooth the transition from outside the ring to inside the wing, by bringing the fun into the ring at trials. If he won’t like a tug toy, we can use an empty lotus ball attached to a long line. That will both increase his arousal in a good way, and help him transition into the ring.
– if he will play with a toy and you do an NFC run, don’t start with a stay 🙂 That is the most stressful position! Instead, run to a tunnel and send him through a tunnel to get him running. Getting him running and chasing you with a toy will be a big breakthrough moment!Let me know what you think!
TracySounds like a great experience! And since you were on dirt, the pattern game to use is the up and down game, where you can put the treat on your shoe 🙂 rather than toss it to the side where it might get lost in the dirt.
Tracy
Thank you for the update! I am glad she did well!!
>>she was completely overwhelmed, but did blast through some tunnels, and came in to me after visiting and exploring.>>
What is your pre-run and ring entry ritual looking like? I definitely recommend pattern games around the ring, followed by the volume dial game just before entering and on her way to the start line.
>> By the third run, we got through the entire course, five tunnels and multiple hoops, coming to me on the tug several times. We called it a success and ended on that.
Awesome!!!!!
Tracy
Hi!
Lots of great moments on these and great info for how we can smooth out her questions!I grabbed some screenshots from this video and the others, to capture where she had questions and what might have been happening to cause them:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sQGcb3oXWfQAitdNuuS3LrYbR05bDJecstkAJVPUsp8/edit?usp=sharing
Three things I see causing questions:
– Soft connection (arm parallel or ahead of your torso on a send/decel) is a definite trigger for questions (and leaping)
– Lack of verbals: silence is *not* golden, according to Lift 😁🤣 and she slows down even with clear connection. Unless it is praise – that doesn’t help her because it draws her focus up to you and away from the line. She is definitely a “just the facts, ma’am” type of dog!
– Long toy dangling – I think this is causing her to question where to look if the handling is not perfect, followed by big frustration. She is more resilient to things being a little soft or quiet if there is no dangling toy. It is entirely possible that her brain cannot root out the full info on a handling cue if it is not super clear AND ignore the toy dangling.
>>I was wondering if part of her leapiness was me holding the exciting lotus tug. >>
Yes, I think the dangling toy was a factor for sure. Carrying a toy is fine, but have it crunched up in your hand so it is not as visible swinging around as you run. Bear in mind that these are not precision reinforcement games, so you can throw it a bit late but also you can have someone else throw it. I think that will also keep her looking at lines, if the rewards appeared on the line more frequently in a sequence and not from you – let them surprise her out on the line.
>>Having a toy in my hand never seemed to affect her when she did agility for a toy pre-adolescence, but that was months ago>>
The work was simpler then, and also the pre-adolescent brain is MUCH better at processing those things than the adolescent brain is.
Looking at the class video – you had the pattern game moving into the volume dial, which was great! One suggestion: add in playing with the toy during the volume dial so she gets more focused on it as a reward and doesn’t look at your hands for the first reinforcement on course.
She did well overall here and found the lines nicely! She had a question on the first jump at 2:33, where her sit was angled away from it and you didn’t cue a forward focus, so she drove the line to you when released. We can definitely pump up her forward focus on those lines! You can point her toes at the jump and lead out laterally, then cue the forward focus with a hand cue before releasing (we can work on this separately too if it is not a strong skill yet – more on that coming on Monday).
She also had a legit question about the jump after the tunnel under the a-frame, like at 3:47:
After you cued her to go to the tunnel, you got quiet, (no verbal exit cues) and your line was cuing a right turn (because you had to avoid running into the a-frame 🤣)If you zoom in as she exits at 3:49, she is turning towards you and your arm was pointing ahead of her so connection was blocked. She continued to turn right then looks like she got a bit frustrated. That soft connection on a send where you are heading away from the line is a definite trigger for jumping up. To help her out, a big GoGoGo before the tunnel entry followed by massive connection with your dog side arm pointing back to her (perhaps even an opposite arm to help her shift away on the line to her left lead, since the tunnel creates a right lead there).
Ring rental/Seq 4- she did like chasing you to the first jump! Really exciting!
Very nice opening! And super nice clear exit line connection at 1:09. She had no questions there, and then you followed it up with really good tunnel exit verbals. Super!
At 1:13 – your high arm blocked connection, note how she looked at you/curled in. It was even higher at 4:37 and she totally came off the line, seeking more info. (Check out the screenshots of these :))
To support lines, it is most effective if the arm can be low and back to her so she sees your face, or up over your head completely so she sees your face from under your arm pit 😁 but having your arm parallel to your shoulder blocks her view of connection. You were closer to the jump at 1:59 on the next video and she got the jump, but definitely keep the connection clearer so you don’t have to rely on proximity to the line.Looking at her frustration moments when she jumped up: (screenshots here too!) to see the common denonimators:
– 1:37 you had praise but soft connection on the send and no verbals for the send
– 2:46 as she was over 2, you had a subtle head turn forward (could have been the beginning of a BC cue) and softening of connection, plus your toy was dangling – she did a blind then got frustrated. Compare this to the first run (1:05) where you had that subtle head turn to glance ahead, but it was earlier and you didn’t have the toy dangling on the other side.
Then as you tried to re-start her, you were not connected back to her clearly (the arm parallel to you, moving ahead, toy in other hand) so she get frustrated there too (2:52 and 2:57). Using a quick decompression moment or pattern game, then a clean re-start will help her out there.Video 3:
She was happy to come in tugging (yay!) ad then go to food chasing – this might be a better arousal regulation strategy but she will let us know as you experiment with it.
You did not have the dangling toy here so even thought the connection got a little soft at :47 (screenshot) she was better able to get on the line. Try not to give a ‘yay’ or praise there, because that drew her focus up t you and off the line too.You had a bonus jump after the tunnel there, she stayed on the line – you need a bit of foot rotation for the FC before she enters the tunnel at :55 to get the tight turn.
1:49 – 1:52 was a good ‘silence is not golden’ moment – even though your were close to the lines, you were very quiet and when the connection got soft, she didn’t take he lines. As soon as you got loud? She got right on the lines. So definitely add those verbals in!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>These are perfect for walking agility!!!
It is fun to see her understanding things at a distance without needing you to run alongside her. That will be VERY advantageous even when you are back to full running speed!! There is so much distance lately in all types of agility 🙂
The hardest part here was the opening: you were tending to over-help her a little, so you got different responses (she was reading you correctly each time).
On that very first rep at :02 – she was correct to take 2 was a backside because you were on her line and stepped to the backside. She knows her backside cues, good girlie!!!
You got off her line on the other reps, but be careful of doing too much pull-then-push from 1 to 2, because you got the backside at 1:52 when you turned your shoulders back to 2, a bark (2:26) then a rear cross (3:26) when you pushed back too much from a distance. Good job free-styling there and doing a short sequence before rewarding 🙂
The most ideal way to handle it (and the easiest 😁) is like a serpentine: as she is facing the slice line at 1, you are showing the serp position of left arm back, shoulders facing her, but feet facing 2 (giving her room to get on her line). Then as she lands from 1, you maintain the serp position as you move forward, with connection, until she turns herself away to find 2 without you having to push her back to it. You can be as lateral as you want to be, as long as you use the serp handling for the smooth line.
You had a nice line 3-4-5 to the tunnel and a nice whoa cue on the tunnel each time. Nice turn each time!!!!
When you were connected back to her, the lines went perfectly (like the entire time 1:10-1:29, and on the last full run too!) She reads her lines brilliantly with you connecting and moving to the next one.She did have a couple of bar questions, and they boiled down to some legit things:
– If you over-help her (like stepping to the 6 jump which sent her to the backside at :40 or the blind-to-RC at 2:34) or disconnect (she pulls bars with sudden disconnection because the info changes and she has to look at you more, like at 4:02) things are not as smooth. When you prioritize connection and give good info, and let her do her thing? She is perfection!– This might make you chuckle: If you praise her while she is out on the line, she almost always drops a bar (2:37 is a good example). This is actually pretty common: praise is more of a distraction, because it *could* mean the reward is coming and it doesn’t give her any info about the line – so she has to look at you for more info. So, no praise needed – use handling cues or reward markers (and the praise can be for the end of the sequence or course 🙂
There was one other spot where she had a bar down, on the jump before the tunnel at 2:29. That looked to be caused by different motion on the 1-2-3 line before it where you more more lateral and got past the 6 jump. So as you were cuing the tunnel and the whoa, you were also pulling back towards the takeoff side of 6 – she was likely processing that motion as a potential turn cue. Compare that to your line of motion on all the other reps there, where you did not go past 6 so you were moving parallel to her line the whole time and she had no questions.
I think as she gets more experienced, you won’t have to worry about that level of handling perfection 🙂 and the verbals will override that subtle step. It is pretty amazing how much these dogs see in their peripheral vision!!
You ended the session with teally great connection and line of motion on the last run, so it was also perfect! That low-arm connection just makes it all soooooo clear for her. Well done here!!!!
Tracy
