Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
>>I’d love to see Larry’s new fave toy! I bet Bazinga would be loco for the fur! Did Ramen do FEO too!? I’d love to see videos!!!>>
I will get a photo and message it – the toy is currently buried in the car somewhere LOL!!
I am going to play the videos in the Monday zoom chat to discuss what I did and why, in the hopes to give folks ideas, but here is a sneak peak:
>>Thanks for the ideas on how to “fade the trade” We did a little session in the house with just a blanket (she is a laundry stealer) and when I said out & moved to where we keep the treats, sh let go & followed me. As soon as I gave her the treat, I went back & played again. We repeated it a few times. I’ll keep it up & switch to a toy & then 2 toys. This will be a helpful tool to have, so I’m motivated to teach it!>>
This is awesome! She learned the game really quickly!
>>Ok, this gave me a huge lightbulb moment because I am trying to keep up with her. If I can stay connected, she can get the information & take the obstacles independently without me having to be right there.>>
Exactly. Yes, keep moving, but running connected is more important than running fast. And in the panic/excitement of running our young dogs, we humans cannot seem to run fast AND connected. So choose connected over fast 😁
>>I took her to agility league last night. We did the up & down game on leash and then we did 3 small sequences with a bungee toy & the volume dial game! I got video!!! It was so fun! I did use treats to get the toy back but she was really good about letting go.>>
All 3 video clips here looked awesome! She was very engaged and SUPER fast on the sequences! She seemed even faster than she is at home, and she is already super fast at home. And you were super connected so she found the lines really well. Yay!!! The RC was a little late, but no worries, just keep moving and she will find the line.
In preparation for AKC FEO, keep running as you show her the toy, so she can get excited about it without you needing to throw it (which is not legal in AKC). If you have another league night coming up, you can treat it like an official AKC FEO run and go in on leash with an amazing toy but no food, and do a short fun sequence to see how she does 🙂
Great job!!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I also entered her FEO/NFC at a small outdoor AKC trial in a jumpers class. My plan to do some start lines, ring entry and rewards!>>
Rather than start lines (which are really hard and there are plenty of opportunities for errors), make her first experience in the ring as a fun & fun party time. Bring her in playing, reward her again for staying with you when the leash comes off, then start on a jump or tunnel with a simple send and so some really easy sequences of 2 oe 3 obstacles. Trust me when I say that will be *plenty* and you don’t want to start with the control of a stay in an environment where arousal is high and so are stress levels. The stay can go in very easily when she is very happy in the ring 🙂
>>I am going to bring a holee roller on a fluffy rope. If she seems unsure when we walk in I will ask for some spins. If she is not comfortable we will just play in the ring. >>
Bring her in chasing the toy! And doing some silly tricks for the toy. And don’t wait til she seems uncomfortable to make it about play… go in with the approach of “let’s get you very comfy as the top priority”. If she is comfortable in the ring? Everything else is SUPER easy. So spend her first FEO just having a grand time with play and some easy obstacles. If she gets uncomfortable, then things are going the wrong direction and we don’t want that to happen.
The most important thing is to look to the future of what you want long term in her career: happy and fast! Ask her for stuff that is at least 50% easier than what she does at home, because the environment is so hard. So only do happy fast things like playing and tunnels and easy lines. All of the complex hard things like stays or tight turns or longer sequences can get added in later 🙂
>>The good news is that I can’t cheat since she does not have any idea what weave poles are. My competitive juices will have to stay dormant.>>
Perfect! I also keep myself from getting competitive by entering at a lower jump height. In UKI, you can ask the trial secretary to put you in any height you want, because you are running NFC. Keeps us from doing too much, too soon!
I was going to show these on Monday to give people ideas about NFC/FEO runs, but here are the very-first NFCs run with Larry The Rental Whippet. The goal was to have a fun time and do one sequences and play with the toy. You can’t really see the beginning of the first run, but on the 2nd run you can see how I played then just sent him over a jump to start, no stays, just lots of fun stuff and rewarding. This was UKI so I could throw the toy and could go in without the leash. You can’t do that in AKC, but a long toy will fix that problem 🙂
On the video: this went well! Great job rewarding her even when things were not perfect 🙂
The first run went well and yes, directionals will help! Be sure you walk the sequence thoroughly and include the directionals, so you have practiced them before you run her.
Line her up on more of a slice to 1. She was facing a straight line to 1 which added a turn on the landing of the jump.
The RC went well. Yay!!!
For the BC to feel smoother, you can send to 3 from the landing spot of 2 so you are in a much better position to get the BC.
You got it on the 2nd run but it was late (bar down) because you got too close to 3 – hanging back and sending her ahead after she land from 2 will make a big difference.
The rep at 4:09 was better in terms of the sending but she didn’t take 4. That was because you ran directly to 4 and did the blind on her line, so had no place to land and read it as a backside cue. Ideally, you send to 3 and run towards 5, clearing the line for her to take 4 based on your line of motion. Compare your line at 4:09 to your running line at 2:33, where you were heading to jump 5 and she took 4 nicely (bar down because she was adjusting in the air based on the cue timing).
2nd video:
>>I did a late front (my specialty in stead of a blind) Double Oops! I was a line dancer growing up and I just default to matching the timing- I need to lead!>>
I think the FC is a good option on this sequence, because it gets your feet turned to the new line quickly. But yes…. Do it sooner 🙂 You started it as she took off for 3. After she lands from 2 you can be indicating 3 and starting the FC so she sees it finished before she takes off for 3. Being more lateral on the lead out will help too, because then you can get past 3 even sooner. Everything else looks great!!!
Nice work here 🙂
TracyHi! This was a good session – her up and down had movement is what we want, because of how that movement creates arousal regulation. Cool!
>>She first thought she shouldn’t touch the food and later offered a down.>>
I think both of those might have been related to “this is really easy, surely it is more complex than this” LOL!!! So you can use a marker for her to get the treat so she doesn’t think it is an impulse control game. And you can do shorter bursts of the game (30 seconds or so) so she doesn’t go into the down. It is possible that the back and forth game will end up being more useful for her because she can keep moving, but a short burst of this is great too because you can do it in a small space.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>>You forget all the things that have to be trained for these young dogs to be one seasoned veterans who will save your runs when handling errors occur!>>
This is SO TRUE!!!! The youngsters need to see every.single.part of the cue and there is no saving our runs. I am grateful for my experienced dogs who allow me to be a slacker LOL!
He did really well with the sequences and I agree, he was in a new gear of speed! Yay!
You can add a stay in front of jump 1, to see if he will read the line with you more laterally away towards 2 and 3. He did really like it when you played with him then ran to start the sequence, so being able to do it both ways will be great.
Your line of motion looked really strong. One thing to try is to run the sequences without pointing ahead as much (keeping your hand down towards his nose more). That way he can see connection better and will drive the lines even more. Pointing ahead changes the line of your shoulders and that changes the sends like at 1:28. You wanted the jump, but pointing ahead turned your shoulders to the tunnel so that is where he went. If your line supports the motion like at 3:13 it is workable to point ahead, but if the motion is not perfect the pointing can muddy the info.
You worked all 3 crosses between 4 and 5: rear, front, blind. Yay! The blind was the winner, because you were able to send to 3 and get ahead really well. So the BC info was timely and accelerated, so he got to go even faster. The FC takes longer to execute with the foot rotation through it, so the blind is a better option here. The RC was good to practice and he did really well! It is useful to have the RC in your toolbox for when you can’t get to the blind or front crosses.
You had one rep of doing the BC 2-3 from sequence 2: really nice connection and he got it easily! Super!
The teeter is also looking good, he is almost ready for it to go all the way to the ground (keep lowering the bar that catches the teeter so it is almost to the ground :)) When you go back and reward him, keep the reward low, placed on the teeter board, so he is not tempted to look up at you at all and keeps looking at the end of the board.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
>>I’m also wondering if I should incorporate going through the gate barrier as well. I noticed at the trial, that walking through the gate seemed to kick up his arousal. Should I work that as well since the practice facility conveniently has gates?>>
Yes, you totally can – you won’t see much difference, though, until we add the remote reinforcement element to it (coming on Monday!!)
>> I’ve always had stopped so I gave the next command at the end, but it makes sense. Wish I had an auto-brain reprogrammer, but I will start working on that now!
Yep, those darned running contacts make everything go faster and my brain sometimes is still slowwwwww LOL.
T
Hi! I think he is looking really good! Some ideas for you:
Even in training, have him come in on lead so there is no cavorting amongst the obstacles (a habit we don’t want to develop :)) Plus, it will allow you to make the leash part of the ritual and that way the mechanics of using it will be very familiar. Plus, there will be no extra arousal associated with it (and you can get him to tug on it, in preparation for AKC trials!)
The patterns looked great, the volume dial looked great, he is great about going from treats to the toy . His tricks were fast and snappy! Super!!!
>>Chill is still one of the harder skills for him.>>
It is definitely a hard skill! You can try putting it in a different spot in the progression: pattern games, then chill, then volume dial. The volume dial is the game that cranks him up into the higher arousal, so chill will be a lot harder. Building the chill off a pattern game will help a lot – more on that coming next week here in class 🙂
The sequencing is looking good – nice connection!! You had a little disconnection at the end, so remember to maintain it all the way through (easier said than done!)
For straight exits off the contacts, yes to placing the reward but also cue the line a lot sooner. For example, the cue to go straight after the frame happened when he was exiting the frame and looking/turning torwards you. Ideally, he would be hearing & seeing the cues as he is on the apex of the frame, and no later than middle of the top ramp of the RDW 🙂 Give those cues early and often LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!! Big things ahead for your little tiny boy!! HA!!! I am excited to see what he does in the next few months!!!
Tracy
Hi! Looks like a beautiful day for training!!
>>. No pre agility training run. A bit of tug, some tricks (Paul didn’t get much of this before each run).>>
Awesome! She looked super focused here!!
>> Though I might be over stepping my time limit here, I’m including three videos of #4.
You are definitely *not* overstepping! You have never overstepped LOL No worries about the time limit 🙂
>> Let me add, the last 2 were after doing this about 10 times. My dogs do fine with lots of repetitive stuff, and most have for quite a few generations. It tends to be the way I train. >>
It is a really short sequence, so I think that was fine (plus it looks like she was getting rewarded a lot and not getting frustrated). One thing I have learned about whippets is that they are happy to repeat stuff as long as we humans are not blaming them for errors LOL!!! And you always seem to be praising her and rewarding her, which is great!
And also, they have incredible latent learning ability so anything that is does not appear to be ‘learned’ in the training session, will be learned as they sleep on it and they come back in future sessions with the skills looking really great. Whippet latent learning is the most incredible thing I have seen in all these years of dog training! I have never seen another breed (or lurchers) match that latent learning ability.
>> As you see in the last one, she was even perkier and focused than the first ones>>
Yes, she was still super engaged! Breathing harder because she had been working, but still very happy to run fast because of the clarity and reinforcement you brought to the session. Click/treat for you!!!!
Video 1: you had her on the other side of 1 here (and on the other videos) which turns 2 into a push to a backside – and that is definitely more complicated, but you got it. Yay!
On this run, she was correct to go straight to the tunnel 3-4-5, that is the direction you were facing, so she drove to it very confidently 🙂 Good girl!
video 2 – you were much clearer with your decel and shoulder turn at 3, so she had a great turn and found 4 perfectly. On the way to the #5 tunnel, she had a question about finding that entry where she would have to turn away. You can be more connected and keep moving directly towards the entry for longer, to help her sort out how to make that approach to it. The ending line looked great!!!
Video 3: you were super connected 1-2 and that made things very smooth there! The turn at 3 was lovely again, and you were more connected on the way to the 5 tunnel. She still had a little question and looked at you, but that is something she will sort out with more practice (and when she sleeps on it LOL!) And the ending looked great here too.
You can start to expand the distances so they are more and more like competition distances – 18 feet between jumps at least, and you can build up to 24 feet or so!
Great job!!
TracyHi! This went really well! For the next session, you can wait a heartbeat longer before tossing the next cookie: let her lift her head more to look up 🙂 On these, I think most of the engagement moments were glances towards you so we ask her for more. She did give good moments of looking up at you (like at :24, that was my favorite :)) so you can wait for those now 🙂
Since you have this going really well, you can take it on the road to different locations and see how she does! Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
>>. I muted this because it was a friends’ training day so everyone was outside and barking obnoxiously>>
Ha! So since we can’t hear them, we will assume your verbals were all perfect 🙂
But good practice for her to have other people and dogs around!>>I tried really hard during the session to stay connected at the startline with her.>>
You did great! How do you feel the stays went? I might have missed a couple, but I kept track: she had 7 correct out of 9, almost 80% success, which is really good! And on the 2 where she moved, you gave very fast feedback – she stood up on one and she took jump 1 on another. When she broke on that rep, maybe your hand moved and she thought it was a release? Hard to see, but try to release with the verbal first then move your hand, so it is ultra clear.
Very nice runs here! Excellent opening line, lovely layering, terrific timing of the FC on the tunnel, terrific conenction on the tunnel exit. Her turns on the tunnel exit was FABULOUS.
When layering, feel free to tweak the sequence to add in balance reps for her so you can bring her in off the layered line too (rather than just making it all about the go go go 🙂 )
At 1:39 – she missed 1 – you were not really near the line and disconected when you released. You can keep going, finish the rep, and fix it on the next rep. That was the only time she had a question.
The hardest part of this sequence was at 6, getting the turn. The key will be showing her decel and collection cues as she exits the tunnel. Ideally, as she is exiting, you are slowing waaaayyyyy down and either showing a strong brake arm (opposite arm going towards her nose) or you can even do a decelerated spin to get the wrap.
You were tending towards an accelerated shoulder turn and pulling awya positionally, but the motion was overriding the position and was cuing her to go to the off course. Try to stay decelerated and handling the collection til you see her ‘crunch’ into collection on the takeoff spot and turn her head – that is your cue from her that you can run to the next line 🙂
You can see that the decel will be effective, because your cue at 3:47 had a decel as she exited the tunnel so the turn was better! You accelerated without a brake arm or spin, so she didn’t go off course but was wide.
At the end, you did it from a BIG decel (being stationary) and she was great! Add in the very clear brake arm (to her nose :)) or a spin and see how she does with that.Great job here!
Tracy
Perfect, I hear wonderful things about the class.
You can also go back to the simple beginner grids and add motion. I like to get running on those!T
Hi there!
>>I tried out being on her line and it worked great!!!! Should I always be positioning myself like that except for backsides where she works need to see the wing? Or is this just on openings?>>
Do you mean on the sequence 2 lead out push? Then yes, that is the spot to position yourself in, This can vary slightly depending on where 3 is, but that is the general position. And if you are doing a backide on jump 2 then also yes, you would change your position to show the wing more clearly. It is not just for openings, it can be used in serp position on course (although it would be a slightly different context but the same general idea of being on the line).
Looking at the sequence 3 video: Lots of good work here!!!!
Nice lead out! I love that she has such great independence on the opening line here!!
>> I feel her confusion with this sequence was my incorrect position which was really apparent when rewatching the video.>>
Yes, she had some questions based on the handling, so 3 things to keep in mind as you work her on these:
– always keep going, don’t stop her even if there is a blooper (it is not her blooper LOL!) That gets you both thinking on your feet and making adjustments in the moment, which is a very valuable skill!– if there is an error, watch the video before the next run. I recognize that this is not a normal part of the agility world LOL! but I am on a mission to change that. It will streamline your training and get a lot more success, a lot faster.
– she is quite brilliant at following the handling! So if she goes wide or drops a bar or goes off course… you can show the handling cues differently and watching the video will give you the insight into what went wrong.
Her excellent understanding of the lead out means you got to great position for the BC. You can start the blind 3-4 sooner, no later than halfway between 2 and 3 (it started at liftoff for 3 at :25 so she couldn’t adust til after landing)… and probably even sooner because she is fast! Ideally, it would happen when she has landed from 2 and looked at 3. That will tighten the line up more.
I think keeping her on your left for 3-4 then doing the RC on 5 is a great plan! It requires a brake arm (2 arms) because the shoulder turn does indeed indicate the big line she took there at 1:20.
You did play with the timing of the brake arms and that was great! At 1:51 it was visible late (liftoff for 3) so she tried to adjust in the air but couldn’t quite do it.
The timing of starting the brake arm was 2:42 was better, but it was still a bit late (after she landed from 2 and moved to 3) but then you were facing forward til she took off and not using the brake arm, so the bar game down.You asked about what to do with the dropped bars… if you are willing to wager $1000 that it was her error and the handling does not need improvement (meaning, there was no late/unclear handling or a conflicting indicator where voice or hands are showing one thing, but motion showing another), and if you can stop her before she takes the next jump, then you can stop her and give her feedback about the bar.
But if you are not willing to lose that $1000 wager because it might possibly have been handler error, then keep going and reward the end of the sequence. Then, look at the video in slow motion and see what the handling was showing when she was taking off for the bar.
I personally have learned to never wager the $1000 because the video ALWAYS tells me what I did wrong, and the dogs don’t have a crystal ball to figure it out if the handling is not clear LOL!!
I don’t recommend the bad bar thing because by the time you do it, it is a little weird and potentially aversive from the dog’s perspective, and it doesn’t correlate at all to what went wrong – and the dogs slow down a bit (“mom is being weird!”) They sometimes keep the bar up on the next rep, but that is more of a product of better handling, the dog having figured out the sequence so might not have needed the handling and the dog being slower to be more careful (all of of which happened here).
Compare the handling at 2:42(bar down) where the cue started a bit late and at liftoff you were facing forward and not really turned, and not using the brake arm, to the handling at 3:18 (bar up) where the brake arms started at liftoff to 2 so she had a lot more info when she landed and looked at 3. And at takeoff at 3:19, you had a lot more decel and both arms cuing the jump, so the turn cues were much clearer.
On the reps at 4:08 and 5:30 – the bar stayed up but that was more a produyct of the cues being late so she jumped really wide.
>> I feel her confusion with this sequence was my incorrect position which was really apparent when rewatching the video.>>
Yes, she gave great feedback there! Too much shoulder rotation, and arm pointing forward ahead of her? She got the backside (keep that in mind for when we do want the backside of the jump, like with the threadle wraps!!) But when you had less arm pointing and more connection? She took the front of the jump perfectly. Yay!
No need to stop there if she took the wrong side of 5 – keep going! You can then reward her and look at the video. Stopping in the middle and rewarding can still be a bit frustrating to the dogs, because they totally figure out the difference between when we are like “YAY! GREAT JOB!!” at the end of a sequence versus “Hmmm what was that, try again, here is a toy”.
The best line there was at 6:30 where you nailed the arm not pointing, connection, and a very clear handling line to the front of the jump. NICE!!
I like that you added layering on the last line! It is a very useful skill! She did best when you had lower arms so she could see the connection there too (some dogs like high arms in layering, she likes lower arms so she can see the connection).
Great job! Let me know what you think!.
TracyHi!
>>– he is able to eat, with reasonable distance (15-20 ft from gate) alternating between stiff staring at running dogs and engaged with me – mostly engaged – occasionally staring>> – he did play pattern games where he would look around and offer re-engaging with me and when he got stuck staring I was able to interrupt and he re-engaged>>
Great! What type of treats were you using? You might need to go up to insanely high value treats (rotisserie chicken has been a winner lately 🙂 ) And if he freezes up, you can move away. One thing to add in the pattern games is more movement, both of you walking back and forth. Staying in motion can really help with arousal regulation! Standing still is very hard.
>>– to actually enter the ring we had to decrease our distance and I had him locked on the tug (when he is really over threshold (often at flyball mat time) he will not tug – so this is still good)>>
He did well with the tugging! When you took the leash off and he stuck with you, get him on the toy sooner so he doesn’t have toooooo much time to himself to start thinking about other things like his sister outside the ring 🙂
>>– he did “tricks” (we need to work on tricks, he did hand touches, sits, downs, spins) for food outside the ring – his toy “out” was not great which made tricks for tug challenging>>YAY!! You can experiment with trick – tug – treat and see if that helps get the tug release happening faster while maintaining good arousal regulation.
>>– west likes fuzzy toys but I have been moving toward toys that are less self rewarding to take off to a corner to dissect and in training he is ok with my choice of toys but in this environment I wanted his favorite toy to compete with distractions- much harder to “out”>>You can work on the out of the high value toys at home too, even using multiple high value toys so the reward for the ‘out’ is another awesome toy 🙂
>>– and in general, tugging in public has been a work in progress always and if I add too many rules and contingencies he says “no thanks”>>Yep – because then it is rules and work (puke) and not fun play. You want to have a style of play with clarity on how giving the toy back gets more play, but keep it simple and fun.
>> and sometimes he felt his trick should earn him a high value food treat (which he knew I had in my pocket)>>That is fine, he can have a treat in those moments 🙂 Asking for food instead of the toy might actually be an arousal regulation attempt on his part, so you can definitely go with it and see where it takes you.
>>– so i didn’t bring trick for tug into the ring, yet>>You can ask for the simplest one at the next trial and see what he says. If he says he can’t, no worries, you can use the tugging and the sequencing.
>>Second and third – my goal was to let him run some sequences – but I struggled to keep up and to restart him – they were very similar -* I included one of these in video>>
Since you are not asking for a stay yet, plan all of your starts so that you can send him and gt ahead to show the next line. When you did that? LOVELY!! When you tried to start with him? The info was unclear so the handling didn’t work as well. And don’t reset bars, there is not enough time in the NFC runs for that 🙂
>>Fifth – (in video clip) was usdaa not uki and I had a last minute realization that I had to take his collar off (I know – tiny difference and we’ve practiced putting it back on, but still it’s a thing)>>
OMG thank you for the reminder – I am doing USDAA next weekend for the first time in years and I totally forgot about the collar thing LOL!!!!!! And yes, it is a thing indeed!!! And something to be practiced.
>>- and that 2 of his littermates were running directly after him>>
Hard challenge! He did well!!!

>>It’s him getting used to the environment and me getting used to him simultaneously>>Yes – time is on your side though, he is only 16 months old (maybe 17 now?) so you have plenty of time and also he will continue to mature.
>>Overall I was very happy – he wasn’t thinking about leaving the ring for the distractions>>
Yes! He was great! And he ignore the kid that was running leashes, and he ignore the music that was playing too. Good boy!
>>I want to slowly start incorporating more self control and thinking maybe at a 1 ring trial>>Yes, quieter trials will be better. Rather than approach it as self-control, approach it as asking for other skills like short stays.
>>I tried to pick manageable sequences and when I felt that I was unlikely to fix the handling error with another attempt I moved on / like both rc attempts in the video clip – and when I felt we could potentially fix it, I tried again, like with the tight turn to the tunnel that he kept layering>>
He was correct in those moments, in terms of what he was seeing in the handling. So no need to fix handling – try to set it up so you are a bit ahead and if something goes wrong? It is probably late info (no worries) and you can reward or keep going. The handling doesn’t get trained in the NFC runs – it is the being happy in the ring and working together in that environment that gets trained, so you can focus on that and not worry about handling yet. Emphasize connection and staying in motion and reinforcement.
When you had your arms low and you were connected? That looked great! So plan for more of that and you will see things come together really nicely 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
