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Hi!
>Tried tugging again and she’s more interested in rubbing her panties off. She’ll interact, but not much tugging.>
The panties are distracting, plus there are construction noises and other people and hormones… so you can be more active with the toy! When you did get it moving for her to chase, she engaged! But when you were squiggling it in front of her, it was not as fun. You can attach it to a really long toy and get her chasing/pouncing/grabbing 🙂
She did well with the circles at your side – maybe a little better on your left side, where you are both more comfy perhaps! You can toss the treat ahead of you after the full circle so she can drive out of the turn. She did like the U-turns with the tossed treats! Just remember to have your hand low and slow to decelerate her into the turn 0 when you were too fast, she didn’t know a turn was coming. But when you decelerated and had your hand nice and low, she read the turns really well!
She really likes the barrel, offering it right away! The low and slow hand movement worked best here too – when you did that: perfect! If you were a little too fast, she didn’t quite turn away as well – but most of the reps were low and slow so she was great. And as soon as her head turned away, she knew to zip around the barrel the rest of the way. Yay!!
You can break this up with tugging too – either dragging the toy on a long line to chase, or having her chase you for cookies. That breaks things up in a fun way and keeps the excitement level really high.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Tunnel threadle session: She did well overall here! Good girl! Because there were good hard distractions for the tunnel threadle session (not just the normal people & puppy distractions, but also the construction noises in the background) – you will want to start from an easy angle and use high value rewards. Higher value than normal (and use a reset reward even if it is not perfect like when she ran around the tunnel at the beginning) will help break through the challenges in the environment.
For the barrel wraps – it took her a moment to figure it out but then she was getting it by the end! And same with the other side. So for both sides: You can add in a warm up: turning her away on the flat, and going around the barrel. Then if she can do both separately, add them together. For this game too, especially with the tossed treats: super high value (like cheese yum!) and tug breaks will help her stay engaged throughout the session.
Nice work here!!Tracy
Yes! The pattern games are a huge piece of dealing with the distractions and motion of the other dogs, especially in flyball. Getting her really good at them at home is the way to start, followed by going to different environments and trying them as far from the ring as possible with incredibly high value food – I started this with rotisserie chicken 🙂
Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi!
> she couldn’t seem to figure it out>
When a pup is adamant about a behavior and keep doing it even not really being rewarded for it, we try to figure out what is cueing it unintentionally. I think 2 things were happening here:
On the first side, it looks like most of you was visible between the uprights so only your hand was outside of the upright – that could be what was cueing her to go over the jump rather than threadle. So be sure you are mostly visible outside the wing – and you can put wings on the jump to move you over even more, so you definitely are not between the uprights at all.
On the other side, you were definitely not too much between the uprights, but I think your position was cueing her to go the front (feet/hips/shoulders). Most of your body was facing the target/front side of the jump and even with the extended arm, the body position overrode that. She was having to decide if she should follow feet/hips/center of chest, or arm: feet/hips/chest will win out at this stage.
So to help get the body position supporting the threadle line more: as you into the position, face her fully (including your feet and hips and shoulders, and extend the arm – then slightly rotate your feet towards the reward target. That will point your feet the right direction but will keep your shoulders/hips supporting the line better (and probably won’t feel as twisted :))
> I decided to see how her sit stay was coming along. She was brilliant!>
The stays worked great here! She was SO GOOD!!!!!! You can mix in throwing rewards back to her to help maintain the brilliant stay. The stays did make it easier but I think opening up the physical cue will really seal the deal and make it all easier.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>We had an amazing walk this morning with a bird of prey on the ground that he was only mildly interested in and didn’t bother to try to check out. JP just hung out with me while I admired the harrier (I think) skimming near to the ground and landing for brief periods. He was so relaxed which allowed the same for me. Enjoying like that is the best feeling.>
That sounds so wonderful! I think the biggest advancements in agility/dog sport training happened when the neuroscientist/veterinarian Kathy Murphy came on the scene. She was able to help us understand what was happening with learning and brains, etc – especially adolescent dogs. It was massively game changing!!! And good for humans and dogs alike 🙂
>BTW, it’s hard to not connect when you’re trying to do that.>
So true! It is very easy to disconnect when trying to connect. So why it is to hard to disconnect on purpose LOL 😂😜
The runs looked lovely:
Run 1 had a lot less connection than we normal would want, and he was still great – fast and accurate!
Run 2 had spots where there was NO connection and he got the correct obstacle with verbals!! Especially the tunnel – that is NOT on his line and he did great! Perfect!!! This was the hardest one here and he nailed it. Woohoo!
Run 3 went great too – this had moments of disconnection (he still found the correct obstacle) and some really nice connection too which makes it all easier : )
If you want to work on backsides and threadles, you can do the third handling challenge on week 1. Or you can move to week 2, plenty to keep you busy there.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
He is doing well with the barrel wraps! I think he has a slight side preference to left turns here? The right turns were a little harder.
>He had a little trouble to start with.>
That was a connection question (and it was on right turns):
As you send him past you to the 2nd barrel, don’t point ahead of him – keep your hand at his nose and let it follow his nose as you step to the barrel. That will maintain connection. When you connected then pointed ahead, there was a subtle disconnection which turned your shoulders away from the line – so he had questions (:03 and :14 for example)But when you kept your hand to his nose and maintained connection, he nailed it even when you were further away from the barrel (:29 for example, which was also a left turn). You also had really good connection on the send to the right turn at :41 and he was great!! So ramping up the connection makes a big difference for him at this stage.
He is also doing well with the perch work! He knows for sure that coming back to put his front feet on the bowl is important. You were using helpful reward placement, turning his head in the direction you wanted to see if you could get more foot movement – and he was starting to offer it! Yay!!!!
Another way you can see if he will give you move foot movement is to throw the cookies on a slightly easier angle – so he has an easier time pivoting back to the front of you.
>Apparently he figured out the cue quickly because first rep of double tunnel on the second side I accidentally said tunnel for the threadle instead of pull and he told me off!>
OMG! That is hilarious! He has big opinions LOL!
The tunnel training went great – he was happy to drive through to the auntie and he was also really getting the idea of turning away to do the threadle cue.He also turned away to his right AND left pretty equally here – the left was a little harder possibly because it was first in the session? But the right turns were pretty perfect!
The double whammy was also harder than usual because he had to ignore the auntie… but he did great! You can add a ‘chase’ or go go go or something on the reps where he is going to head to the auntie, to help clarify that for him.
>Tunnel threadle session, but also learned he is still not accepting toys in the dirt environment.>
Well, dirt is gross LOL!! You can ask him where in the facility he will want to tug: parking lot? Crating area? Is there any concrete area or non-dirt area? If we can figure out where he will tug, we can start getting tug there and then oh-so-slowly work on convincing him to tug in the dirt 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I tried to incorporate transitions, slow and fast, not sure how well I handled it; she went wide on the left wrap both times. >
I totally see what you mean here!! She was great on the wraps to her right. And yes – very wide on her wraps to the left. Why was she so wide there? Either she needs to see more connection from you in the form of more direct eye contact (and lots of rewards) for turning to her left.
Or, she was looking at something out by the tree/fence line on that side. A squirrel or something perhaps? You can see her looking that way before finishing her turn especially on the 2nd left turn.
So definitely make a big connection and reward her for turning to the left – but you can also try moving the setup to someplace different and try the left turns, to test the theory of whether is was a distraction or a side preference.
She did a great job on the serps in the 2nd video! She had no trouble coming in to the target hand from any angle. Super!!!! So you can move to the next step, which would be to have a reward target on the floor. It can be an empty bowl that you drop the treat into, or a manners minder. That way she can do the in-then-out behavior very smoothly – what will also happen is she will touch your target hand *less* and that is actually fine 🙂 So if she sideswipes it to make the turn, definitely still reward.
Great job with the get out game!!! She was very happy to drive to her prop. You can add even more distance away from it! She also did well *not* going to the prop on the last rep – she ended up on the other side of you because she didn’t see any connection (so you can add more eye contact so she knows where to be) but I was super happy that she did not send herself to the prop. Yay!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>We’ll keep working on the retrieve, mixing it up with your suggestions. >
Keep me posted! The retrieve is definitely on the way to being at the end goal of her bringing it right to your hand 🙂
And using the toy-on-a-rope here in the tunnel game seemed to work really well: excellent placement, she was really engaged, and you were able to keep the toy near you for the next rep. Yay!
>She gets the tunnel send on both sides, and the threadle turning to her right, but not so great on the threadle to her left. In review, I may have had her set up to close to the tunnel bag, causing her to move toward me and not toward the tunnel. >
Totally agree – both sides towards you were great! The right turns away from you were easy peasy and yes, the left turn away was harder. The mechanics of turning away are just harder for her on that side (totally normal :)) so you can start on a slightly easier angle so she doesn’t have to turn as much. Her turns here were approx 180 degrees into the tunnel, so you can angle her so she sees the tunnel more and her turn is 90 degrees or less. Then over time you can work her back to the harder entry on that side.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>I think he is starting to get it, but my hands are a huge distraction for him lol! I think he is finding it slightly frustrating also. >
He is definitely starting to get it when starting on your left side – starting on your right side is harder because your mechanics are different – your hand cues were higher and faster so he was moving higher and faster too 🙂
The hand cues should ideally slow him down a bit and set the turn, so you can put the cookie hand right at his nose to lock onto, almost stopping him, then let him follow it slowly to turn away. My mantra for my hands on this one is “slow and low”.
>If I lure him he eats my hands and it’s painful lol.>
Poor starving dog! LOL! 😂 You can try the cookie hand (cue hand) being empty as if holding an invisible cookie. And the other hand can be ready with a cookie to throw, but still at your side til you toss the reward. The other hand was extended sometimes so I don’t think he knew where to go.
>Small slice. We have been working on this since he was itty bitty! He has amazing self control and drive for wanting to stay with the mama and work.>
Yay! He dos love working for the mama!!!! This video was the same as the head turn video, can you repost the slice video?
>We did do backside and threadle again. He was great just like on the live!!! Not one issue>
Super!! He is doing great with those!!!
Nice work here!
Tracy
PS – about connection: remember that even if you can see him peripherally, it doesn’t mean that he can see the connection to find the correct line 🙂
T
Good morning!
He is doing really well with completing the wrap while you move forward! You don’t need to to keep your dog-side arm (cue arm) up as long – we don’t want to it come across your body so a soon as he is moving to the cone, you can relax the arm as you move forward (you did this at 1:19 and it looked really good!!)
>I noticed here that when I send him after lining him up he goes wide to start with and then wraps the cone nicely.>
A good example of that was on the first rep at :22. And yes, he was pumped up because of the toy 🙂 but also – you were on his line which was pushing him wide. You can see that your left leg was past the cone and where he needed to be. Compare to 1:16, for example – he was super tight to the line because you had moved over and you were not blocking his line to the cone. So I don’t think it is a toy issue, I think it is a letting him see the cone & not blocking the line question 🙂
>if the toy is just making him less focused on the task than the food?>
He is a super good boy, incredibly focused with both. I really like how balanced he is with reinforcement!
On the backside slices:
>He was just too focused on the toy so I switched to food…seems to be a theme.>
Actually… the toy was not the question 🙂 It was connection!
He did great with the toy on the first couple of reps where you were very connected.
As you added motion, you were less connected and then the toy was VERY visible behind you, so he didn’t know which side you to be on. By less connected, you were not looking back at him as much and your dog-side arm/shoulder was closed forward so he didn’t see the connection. When you put the toy away, you were also more connected!
So as you add motion, increase the connection by having your dog-side arm pointing all the way back to his nose and have your eyes looking at his eyes so he can see the connection.
I grabbed 3 screenshots to illustrate this – the first and 3rd ones were when he found the backside, and you can see that your dog-side shoulder was a little further back so he can see your face & eyes more. You can make it even clearer by pointing your arm back to his nose (lock your elbow) as you look at his eyes. On the 2nd shot, that is where he went to the toy (which was very visible behind your back). That was when you had no connection – your left shoulder was closed forward so even though your head was turned, he could not see it from his height and guess about where to be.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OCyHhcc2xGkbg90NeGrQAZRqht9nYCTOZYG6MWc_5jk/edit?usp=sharing
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>We do have a school across the street from our community. We work a lot in the yard when kids are out so I think the noise from the school was louder that day due to the cloud cover we had. There’s a park right next to the school and we usually walk over there twice a week and do resilience games and work on getting her to tug when the kids are out for recess.>
The school is a great thing to have nearby! It was definitely loud, so the cloud cover might have contributed. It might also be part of normal young dog brain development, where she will go in and out of different sensitivities as she matures. In that video, there was some screaming so perhaps she is sensitive to the kids screaming right now. Nothing to worry about – she didn’t appear freaked out or anything, it is more that her brain was probably having ‘what was that’ moments trying to process all it was being bombarded with (it is hard to be a young brain LOL!)
Looking at the retrieve: it is actually coming along really well!! And you are keeping it fun, which is the key: the pups really have to *want* to bring it back, so making it a fun game is super important.
The “plus” moments here are that she is driving to the toy and not trying to run away with it. She doesn’t quite understand that you would like it back to your hand. She is actually getting it really close (after shaking it to death a bit hahaha she is so cute!)
>If I call her name she comes to me without the toy >
The name call might cue a recall and she does that immediately, but doesn’t realize that you’d also like the toy 🙂 So you can drop the name for now and just use something informal like “bring the thing!”
In the section of the video where you were in the chair – you did not have to get up on most of the reps to get the toy and that is great! You got up and moved a step to it on the last rep – but it is still indicative that the retrieve is moving the right direction because the toy did get relatively close to you.
So you can do a couple of things to keep building it:
Have a second toy, and when the first toy gets close enough that you don’t have to work that hard to reach for it, you can reward with the second toy: tugging with it then throwing it for the next rep.
Separately, you can shape her to retrieve something and bring it to hand:
It is a fun game!
I also use a giant bowl as a target sometimes. Getting the object into the giant bowl is the way to get me to click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6xrtHNNhA. (This is an end result video, and I shaped my way there with a clicker, starting him a lot closer so he only had to pick it up and get it near then in the bowl)And you can add in the reverse retrieve we just added – the element of chase really helps the pups want to bring it to us:
>I switched to a toy on a rope, so that I could pull it back to me. I think I may need to do that for a while until we build value in bringing it back to me. >
This is a super fun approach too, because it builds rehearsal of the toy getting back to your hands (even if the rope is assisting in the process LOL!) Plus it can help make training sessions far more efficient when you are throwing a toy: you can use the line to help with the retrieve element separately.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
These were terrific!!
On the moments where you were on time and connected, it was super easy for him to know where to go. And if you were a tiny bit late (like a heartbeat late connecting after exiting the wrap, or the one moment of forgetting the course 🙂 ) – he was paying attention for info and not just grabbing things. Good boy!!!!!Since this went brilliantly, you can move forward 2 ways:
– try the next handling game with the backsides and threadle wraps.
– do one more round with this game, connecting less (and running less) to see if he can get the right ‘answers’ when the verbals are the main info and not the connection.Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>You asked if the position 2 coincided with the person’s arrival—yes, it did. I don’t think he would have gone over—the collar hold was instinctive. >
You and he are in that awkward stage of surviving adolescence – giving him enough room to make the good decisions we know he can make… but not too much room to do so because he is definitely an adolescent 🙂
>On Wednesday, at a different location where I rent space for offering training opps for myself and friends, we had some disconnect again (not new). I did use my Max Pup treat tosses and the newly learned light collar hold with me looking at him, for starts; that combo worked well to curb the circling and pacing.>
Super!!! And anything that allows him to move will be helpful – the science tells us that adolescent brain develop leads to MORE movement so we need to let them do it. Plus, BCs are bred to move like that so we have both of this things happening.
>Now that you mention that the movement around the wing (at 1:14) may be his way of alleviating concern AND THAT IS A GOOD THING, that makes me view this reaction in a completely different way. I will use that perspective to help me help him. It never occurred to me that I could think of that as a good thing for him and finding comfort.>
Yes – coping skill! He was being a good boy!
And it sounds like good things are happening in life too, outside of agility. He is doing great!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>On one rep he missed the jump and took the tunnel and didn’t get a reward, so next rep I tried the opposite, asking for the tunnel to see if he’d just try the other obstacle, but he actually got it that time.>
A lot of dogs try to guess their way through this puzzle like that, it is actually very clever LOL!!! So you get the gold star for switching things up and asking for the opposite to ask him to listen and not just guess. Yay!!
On thing this game asks for is that the verbals override the line of motion. That is SO HARD but I can see him processing it, which is great.
For example, at the beginning – he correctly got the ‘over’ and the handling supported it. Then the handling was basically the same but the verbal said tunnel at :06… he was heading to the jump but then you can see him say “wait….. this is different”. He didn’t get the tunnel but he did hear the difference and check on what it was – he was just a bit too close to the jump to get the tunnel at that point. So it was a processing delay but there was indeed processing!
We saw that multiple times in there session: he was assuming jump then starting to catch himself when the verbal was actually tunnel: either stop in front of the jump or offer the other side. Smart!!!
He was not as good about catching himself when he was locked onto the tunnel and you wanted the jump, but I think that will come soon. If you use a quiet, happy “that is not it” marker when he is incorrect, you can use it before he gets to the tunnel (and a ‘woohoo’ marker on the way to the tunnel when he is correct).
A quiet ‘that is not it’ marker when he is heading to the tunnel might be useful info for him because it tells him earlier that he is on the wrong line, but it can be tricky because we don’t want to spend a lot of time telling him he is wrong. I use a couple of different markers, ranging from “you’re cute! C’mere!” to “that’s not it” to ‘dude!’ to ‘c’mere buddy’- all of which are delivered in a happy voice and indicate no reward coming and to come back and reset. I do give reset cookies after errors to keep the overall rate of success high.
I think for now he doesn’t need a marker if he is heading to a jump when you are saying tunnel, because he is working on solving that puzzle on the wy to the jump and I don’t want to interrupt him.
It is good that he has a few days away from this game, so latent learning can work its magic and wire the learning into his brain 🙂
The challenge here was that he needed to respond to a verbal that was indicating something different than the handling might have been indicating. That is why it was easier when you were standing still – motion is a beast! And add in that he has had a few years of motion-based experience, which makes things harder for sure because his first inclination is to follow motion. You didn’t confuse him, and he is being super good – he is just learning a new skill. We didn’t emphasize verbals overriding motion this much when he was a puppy because we didn’t know how important it would be several years down the road. But he is doing well and happy to try to figure this out!!
And the main goal is that he can get it with verbals while you are handling, especially when the handling is not perfect or you are working at a big distance – young Spot are definitely doing well with that!
>I videoed myself just to see if the two were confusing and yep, I think they might be.>
I love videos! This is great! Yes, the arm cues look similar. What he appears to be reading here is the line of motion with you ahead : threadle slice has convergence towards the jump, and threadle wrap has you laterally pulling away from the jump. That worked here but getting that to work consistently would depend on the sequence – you won’t always be ahead and able to pull away laterally from the threadle wrap, so the different arm cue .
I did a little digging around to give you a threadle wrap arm visual – Lee is using a low, punched-down, straight arm as part of the cue. He also uses a bit of shoulder pull (which I also use) to set the line but on these courses, there is no room for lateral motion because there is an off course obstacle *everywhere* (really crazy hard courses, he ran clean on both, yay Lee!!!) Note how he also uses 2 hands a lot and probably doesn’t even realize it in the heat of the moment on those insane courses 🙂
I think you will be able to see them here:
https://www.facebook.com/513640945/videos/pcb.10161167631715946/1093796472954780
https://www.facebook.com/reel/2459017231145589
>I trust his threadle wrap at a trial more than his back side wrap. I looked back at a recent Masters Series Agility run that I remember doing threadle wraps and I have no idea why he actually does them the way I fling my arm around.>
Nothing to laugh at! It was good handling! The first one in particular was really good – nice decel coming into it and clear cue, he read it really well!!
The 2nd one was not as clear – he thought it was a slice til he saw the motion after he landed. That was because you didn’t show decel or change of foot direction as part of the cue til after he took off – and that is critical to TW cues, even more so than the hand cues.
Have a great weekend! Let me know what you think! I am heading off to New York City for a family thing… with 5 of my dogs. That will be, um, fun. LOL!!!!
Tracy
