Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>Ugh, time 3 trying to send this.. No comments because now I’m frustrated.>
That is super frustrating! Were you getting an error message?
The barrel wraps went really well! He had no trouble with the dish and toy on the ground, and was able to send to the barrel sideways. Smooth and fast!
You did a bit of turn and burn too – his commitment is strong but he definitely wants the support of your dog-side leg on the send to the barrel. You can see that at 2:12, where your dog-side leg stayed back and he questioned whether he should go to the barrel or not.
For the barrel games: you can move on to the rocking horse games! That will be fun and allow you to keep building on the commitment you have here.
Rear crosses on the prop went great! He turned correctly in both directions: SUPER! Your timing was good, and your timing was good because you put lots of value on driving ahead to the prop, so you could get to the new side with no problem.
He is also having less trouble finding treats in the grass when the game is continuing 🙂 He still sniffs around when you are transitioning to the next game, so you can send him to a station or you can call him back quickly to a toyto avoid that.
Lap turns were pretty perfect 🙂 Lovely mechanics! And he has a strong balance between handler focus and going to the prop. When you get back from your week away, you can move this concept forward into the threadle wrap foundations posted yesterday.
The out cue is off to a great start – he did well sticking with you when you cued the straight line and going to the out when cued. I think his questions about the ‘out’ towards the end were because you were not moving to get the cue understanding started. That is fine, we can add movement because it is indeed a moving cue. ,Your line of motion for the out and the handler focus is the same, and the upper body/out cue is what makes the difference.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hello!
>Are you thinking about running across a Cato board when near agility?>
Yes, or position changes on it (sit to stand, stand to sit, etc).
You can even use this back-up skill – the video is looking great! Very deliberate, intentional stepping backwards onto the platform! Very proud of her! The platform helps her be straight – you can see her curving a little (like at :30). But you can also encourage backing up straight by alternating which hand you deliver the reward from. When we deliver from one hand all the time (your right hand here), the dogs will lock onto the hand and back up away from it… which ends up being on a slightly curved line. If you feed from your left hand half the time as well, she is likely to be more straight because she won’t lock onto one hand over the other.The next step is to just add a little more distance each time. This behavior is going well! And you can also get a wobble board involved, so there is a tiny bit of movement as she steps onto it.
> I think there’s a fun match this weekend about 30 minutes from me.>
Ooh perfect! That can be a fun opportunity to hang out and do little things!
>Also, what are you thoughts on an opt out station being present? I’ve seen it in other classes where you leave out a snuffle mat on a raised item like a small chair. The dog can choose to go to the snuffle if they need a moment. I’ve tried it with Sprite occasionally and it surprises me sometimes when she decides she needs a break. It’s not often, but I like the idea in general.>
Many feelings 🙂 and it is definitely thought-provoking, in terms of analyzing it (similar to taking a close look at the dopamine box trend). Yes, considering the welfare of the dog and the dog’s need to decompress is awesome! And it is a positive, happy thing in a world where people lean into negatives so easily. But it is really tricky to have an snuffle mat nearby as an ‘opt out’ – there are a lot of things going on with that, that fall into the ‘it might not be training what people thing it is training’ category 🙂 I can give you the complete list (so far) if you are interested. I think it is more important to give the dog the play or decompression *before* they leave a session or feel the need to opt out.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
It has been chilly here!! I am glad you are enjoying it 🙂 And yes, it is really nice to roam around farmland in cool weather, you should totally move to the region 🤣😁🤣
Well, adding more motion to the parallel path game was certainly easy and looks like FUN! Driving ahead of you? No problem. Lateral distance? No problem. Driving ahead AND lateral distance? Also no problem 🙂 SUPER! We will be building on all of this very soon.
He had one miss (rep starting at :31) and what happened there was he was looking at you taking the cookie out of your pocket and put it into your throwing hand, while you started to move. That kept his attention for a few extra steps and then by the time he looked for the jump, he was past it.
So it is partially a small mechanics error (moving the reward around while also cueing the behavior). But it was a nice bit of distraction training and he did not make the mistake again (one error can be just as useful for the dog as a success can). And it was a nice bit of resilience for him too: “hmmm why didn’t I get the reward” followed by the bounce back to engagement followed by lots more success.
Great job here! Safe travels home!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I’ll give her a day or two and then try the bowl. Toy on the ground might be hard for her. >
I think solidifying the concept with the bowl will make it easier to get the toy on the ground. And this might sound strange but a lot of dogs can generalize the concept if we put the toy in the bowl, when introducing the toy. The bowl is a context cue, so it might make it easier for her to have the toy on the ground.
Reese did super well with the shpile 🙂 It looked pretty easy for her – she was aroused (tugging, Sprite singing a little LOL) but was still quite good at offering lovely mechanics and balance on the pile of stuff. This is one of the things I like about dog that think through a puzzle rather than fling themselves at it LOL! We tend to see better mechanics as they are learning proprioception, and that translates to the grown-up sports really well 🙂
This game can go into the training rotation in that you try different variations of the pile at home, as well as different variations of arousal. Tugging is a good one of course. You can also let her watch Sprite have a turn, then Reese has a turn (that will be more stimulating!). This is one of the games that I play when the dog is hungry for their meal (and the meal is the reward). That is a different arousal level too (baseline reward arousal).
And if you are near agility (class or trial) – you can do simple proprioception on a plank or disc or small setup when agility is nearby: that is a good brain prep for being able to use her mechanics properly even in a very stimulating environment. Keep me posted on how she does and if she has any struggles with it – there were no struggles here. Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
>would it make any sense at all to try the wobble board upside down??>
Yes, if she can fit on it pretty easily, it will totally work.
Both of the strike a pose sessions went really well.
Shaking the hand target helps as the reward gets to the ground – you can move the hand/arm up and down a bit more when the toy is visible so she can really lock onto it.Overall, she was getting the in-then-out really well by the end of both sessions. Yay! For the food bowl, you can move on to the concept transfer posted last week! The next step with the toy is to get it to the ground, then try the concept transfer.
At this stage, she might begin to side-swipe the hand target rather than hit it directly and that is perfectly fine 🙂 That means she is understanding in-then-out and setting her line appropriately. And it helps us fade out the hand target but maintain the understanding of the cue.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Tolerates kids but not keen on interacting with strangers.>
Are you describing Drift here, or describing me? LOL!! Strangers are weird, he doesn’t have to interact with them.
He was great with his patterns in the aisle – sooooo much hard stuff in the environment but he was like “whatever, let’s do patterns”. His body language seemed very happy and relaxed. Super!
Stay video 1 (home): You are making good progress! One thing I notice is that he is offering a lot of dancing after getting into the sit – that might be because you are facing him and he is interpreting it as “offer more”. So you can cue the sit more at your side (not a formal line up, but not facing him as much) and start to reward as you move away. So you are moving away slowly but throwing the reward back early and often. That can solidify the sit position because he won’t confuse it with a shaping session where you would face him and wait for more offering.
The stay on the road went really well! You were moving away almost immediately here so he stopped offering other stuff in favor of holding position. SUPER! He couldn’t let you do tooooo many steps away yet but it is definitely good progress.
He was on fire for his foot target! Love it! He was stronger driving away on your right side at first but perhaps that was because the target was a bit hidden behind the stairs? He got it really nicely soon after the start and was sending from pretty far away.
The rear crosses were handle cue questions 🙂 I think yo were trying to send with your arm then get to the next side, but the send made you late in getting visible on the new side. So to smooth out the rear crosses, start as far back as possible, and start right next to him. Do a couple parallel path moments and when he is driving ahead of you easily (without an arm send), you will be able to switch sides and be visible on the new side before he arrives at the prop. That should get the RCs smooth like everything else.
And you can play with the other prop games too, I think they will be super easy for him!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The SC adventure looks like it is so fun! Hopefully you are not freezing – I had to turn on the heat here LOL! And he is a great traveler too.
He caught onto the parallel path pretty immediately and was driving way ahead. SUPER!!!This is especially lovely considering he was in a brand new place. And click/treat to you for getting your marker and reward throw in before he looks back at you. Excellent mechanics!
Since this went really well, a couple of options to add, to keep things exciting 🙂
– You can add more of your motion. Having you walk was the perfect start and turned out to be VERY easy. Cool! Now you can jog, and build up to running. Handler motion can be a distraction, so it will be a nice challenge to see if he can find the line with more motion. I am guessing he will do really well.
– You can also change your position: when he is going to get the reward, you can get moving back up the line so you are ahead of him when he is ready for the next rep. That is hard sometimes but I think he can do it as long as you stay connected back to him. And you can also move yourself further over laterally each time: how much distance away can he find it?And since he is good about bringing the toy back, you can add a toy as a reward too. It won’t exactly be as clean of a loop due to potential toy parties 🤣 but it increases arousal in a good way and help solidify the skill in a the more agility-like arousal state.
Great job! Safe travels home!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>So how do I play with the tunnels in that case?>
You can use a baby tunnel indoors where she is more likely to bring the toy back. Or, since they are pretty simple for dogs to learn, you can move tunnel training down on the priority list and train more retrieving outdoors like you described below, before going back to the tunnels.
>not sure what game(s) I could play that don’t and are still fast and fun?>
The proprioception games (like the shpile) are fast & fun, and use a different part of the brain. All of the resilience games use different parts of the brain as well. Parallel path games also don’t have much impulse control 🙂 and the rear cross game (especially the alternate rear cross game) doesn’t have impulse control needed. And I think the rocking horse game won’t require much impulse control from her.
Looking at the video:
She is definitely offering more backing up! Yay! And the backing up is looking pretty balanced with distinct steps. She does indeed seem ready for more distance.I am not sure she is using the mat as a destination – it might be incidental. You can test that theory by trying a couple of reps without the mat there at all – does she offer the same behavior? If not, then yes she is using the mat.
If she does offer the backing up without the mat, the goal shifts slightly to think about getting her to back up onto something that moves. To get that, you can use a taller mat for her to step back up onto – something only as tall as maybe half the length of your thumb 🙂 That will be more salient and you can start her on the mat with all 4 feet, first getting her to step her front feet back on then luring all 4 feet off so she offers back feet on it. That will make it easier to switch to something that does move (eventually).
We don’t need the mat to get backing up on the flat – that is progressing nicely! So it will be useful for adding movement.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I guess I have always used lap turns for U turns, and tandems for more weird 90 degree turns. >
Lap turns totally work for U-turns, but course design lately has made it really hard for us to be in lap turn position in time to get it done. The tandems work and the threadle wrap is currently a hot topic (we start training those tomorrow :))
The tandems are actually very flexible tools in what type of line they create – yes, we can get the U-turns and also the 90-degree turns you mentioned, as well as on front or back of the jump.
Looks like he had a fun training day!! He was very engaged and focused even with new a new person there!
For the parallel line:
He seemed to have no questions about finding the line from a stay and with a toy lure. It was a bit of lead out practice! For next steps, we want him to find the line when you are both in motion (think of it as mid-course) You can take placed toy, and both of you will be moving (starting from a stay on the board is fine if cookies toss starts will cause delays in finding the treats outside). That allows him to choose the jump setup with you in motion (this should be the easy part). The harder part is getting you connected from anywhere, and getting the marker/reward throw happening before he looks back at you. That will mean we shift the emphasize now to marking commitment to the jump (when you see the choice to run to it) rather than arrival at the jump. Marking commitment will allow you to get the reward thrown ahead before he looks at you, which is a great timing skill for us humans 🙂
Serps:
He did well here too! Nice job with the jump and also when you added the bowl. He had very few questions. Yay!
2 adjustments to the setup:
– Be sure to add the slice position to the challenge – that is often harder for herding dogs than the angles. On all the positions, you can be more between the uprights Most of you was outside the wing, and for now at least half of you should be visible between t he uprights (I think of it as putting my belly button o the wing :)) That way you won’t have to lean back at all. And on the harder angles, you can also look at the target hand as you release him as that will also help draw him to the serp (especially when the bowl is on the ground :))
– you can be a lot closer to the jump (close enough to reach out and touch it with a slightly bent arm). That gets him turning before he gets to the jump and not when landing afterThe next step for this would be a toy on the ground, but that is a low priority for now 🙂
>we will be out of town next week so we will end up getting a little behind.>
Have fun! There are only a couple of new things being added so I don’t think it will be hard to catch up.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The concept transfer went really well here! Adding the jump was no trouble for her and she was able to do the proper serping 🙂 And she did well with the stays – I think it was smart to ask for some easy stays and mix in cookie-toss-starts in the harder position to make things easier and protect that stay behavior 🙂
You might notice that at this stage she is starting to side-swipe the target in your hand a bit… this is actually perfectly fine and part of the progression. We are looking for an in-then-out chain, so that is what you can reward: in towards the hand then out to the reward automatically. That translates nicely to the full serp (and threadle) and tells us she is ready to start fading out the target. Yay!
The next step is to get the reward to the ground on the concept transfer – an empty bowl might be the easiest way to do that but then it would be fun to try the toy on the ground after a few warm up reps with it in your hand.
Great job 🙂
Tracy
Hello!
Both of these games went really well!He had a pretty easy time with the ‘get out’ behavior! That is nice to see because a lot of young dogs struggle with the concept of moving away. Ikaika seemed to have no questions! It was very easy starting from the Cato, and still pretty easy when you added more distance and the balance of moving forward without being sent to it. Yay!
One thing to consider is using the “out” as a release so the info is more immediate, and also is a clear contrast from the “break”. The “break” can be used to indicate moving along the line with you, and the “out” can indicate the movement away from the prop.
And you can totally add in rewards for the stay on the Cato – there was some anticipating the release 🙂 So feel free to mix in lots of stay rewards as the releases gt more exciting.
Lap turn & parallel path video:
This was more of a tandem turn than a lap because you were facing the line (the lap turn has us facing the dog) but that is great because we use the tandem turns more frequently anyway. My only suggestion is to decel as he is heading into the hand cues, so he knows a turn is coming. Steady fast motion forward might make it harder to process the cues for the turn away.In future session, you can make it more of a “u-turn” rather than the 90 degree turn you had here. The tandem turn cues can pull him past the prop then turn him back towards it, so he will be coming back towards the Cato board. That will lead us into the threadle wrap foundations that are coming this week!
Parallel path – he seemed to have no questions here, well done! Yay! I scrolled back to see if you have done the parallel path concept transfer and I didn’t see it: so you can move forward to that next time. And you can also start further back and next to him, to get him ahead of you to set up the rear cross on the prop.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
> So in retraining Beka (and then training Kyrie) I should use the same physical cues I use to get the dog line that I want.>
Correct! Direction-based verbal cues do not replace the need to also train handling cues.
> if for a specific direction-based command, say for the backside wrap turning to the right, my physical cues in my current handler-based system were different depending on the side the dog was on (thinking threadle versus push handling), would I pick one of the two physical cues and use it for both situations (that is, use it for both DOR and DOL) or could I use the same physical cues that I use now for the two situations?>
All the physical cues remain the same… it is only the verbals that change. So the backside slice left to right would be the verbal attached to that behavior, regardless of whether the physical cues are push or threadle or rear cross.
>Oh, it just now it occurs to me that my current physical cue for the backside slice and the backside wrap done as pushes to the backside are the same>
They should be different enough, but also the verbals will be different too.
> Hmm, just now occurring to me that in some of the situations it can be confusing to the dog as to whether they should be slicing or wrapping (which impacts how they should be setting up to take off as the get around the wing). Now wondering if that explains some issues Beka has with slices vs wraps and not getting in a good takeoff place for a wrap. >
There are a lot of things that could be in play, but if the physical cues are late or not different enough and the verbals are not clear then yes – jumping questions could come up.
>Am I over thinking that at all?>
While it is always good to clarify handling cues if the dog is having questions, it is also important to not drive yourself crazy about it all.
>Ok, just to clarify, on a line of three jumps that you you are running DOL and you want them to do a threadle through each of the jumps, you would still use the direction-based command used to have the dog take the backside of the jump (from their perspective) and slice the jump for each of the jumps in the threadle line, correct? advantage is that it would be the same command if you were on the other side of the same line of jumps, correct?>
Yes, if that is the behavior then the verbal is the same regardless of handling choices. It is the same concept as sit meaning the dog should sit, no matter what the handler is doing.
Looking at the videos:
She did well with the tunnel here!
>We haven’t tried any kind of retrieving outside –>
Yes, getting retrieving will help and also don’t keep sending her to it if she doesn’t bring it all the way. There is a lot of running for her on this session, so time it to be 90 seconds or less. She was getting pretty tired and stopped bringing the toy back, so finishing before she is tired will help a lot too.
Try to line her up with a cookie at your side – it is possible that being moved into position by her collar was causing a bit of avoidance in bringing the toy back. Then as you hold her, say tunnel a few times before you let her go so she is locked on before you let go or move. There were a couple of spots where your movement was not that clear (like at 1:05) – remember that the tunnel is new to her 🙂 so letting her lock onto it before you let go will help. You can also add small incremental changes in angle
Lap turns: the mechanics generally went well on both sides. A couple of things to help make it smoother on both sides:
You can have your hand fully extended to her before she turns back to you, and you can be a bit further behind the prop (like you were at 2:40 and after it on the first video, and on most of the 2nd video). That way she will lock onto the hand really easily, and after you turn her away you can start moving forward: that motion cues her to go to the prop.The other thing to add at this point is an empty hand: the empty hand will do the turn away work and you can reward from the other hand after she hits the prop. That takes out the reward for coming to your hand, but I think things will flow better without that.
Tandem turns: I think the loop of it was happening a bit too fast to set up the mechanics on the reps that went sideways, so the hand cues to turn away were happening to fast (so she turned towards you). But when you slowed things down and got her focused on the hands then slowly turned her away, things went really well! So if you loop back into the next rep, the cookies need to already be in your hands: not enough time to get them out of the pocket 🙂 But also it doesn’t have to be a loop: you can throw the reward, then play tug… then throw a start cookie for the next rep. That gives you more time to set up the mechanics and the turn away cues – and that was when you got really nice tandem turns 🙂
Handling combos:
I think by the time you trained these, she was mentally done with training for the day. If the videos were posted in the order you did them during the day, there was about 25 minutes worth of training which means the last 9 minutes with the handling combos were when she was just over it all 🙂 All of the games have a relatively challenging impulse control component, so asking for more after all the sessions during the day was what actually set up less impulse control (depletion). So we can’t analyze why she went to the toy on these 2 videos other than to assume she was depleted and trying to opt out. So while you did get her to do a couple of good reps on each side, structuring the training differently overall can help get more success overall: If you choose to work a game that has an impulse control element (like the engagement outdoors at the tunnel, which also has retrieving, or going past the prop rather than to it on the lap/tandem turns) – make that the only impulse control game of the day. And if you do another session of training, work on something that does not ask impulse control questions – make it something fast & fun. She will learn everying a lot better with the less-is-more approach because you won’t grapple with depletion and opting out.
So if you revisit these, do them as the first session of training that day! You’ll probably see far more success on the impulse control elements in particular.Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning! I am very glad that Ripple was comfy in the trial environment 🙂
The clicker sits are going well! One suggestion to help get more stay going: After the click, throw the cookie to her rather than have her move to your hand. There are two reasons for this:
– we don’t want your hand movement to be part of the release
– throwing it back to her will help her want to stay in her spot as you move gradually further awayThe toy was very exciting! She has a lot of toy drive but did a great job figuring out the game – her sits got better and better with each rep. For the release on this game, you will want to use your ‘formal’ release word (OK or break or whichever word you’ve chosen).
For both of these ways to work the stay, you can add in quiet praise before the click or release to tug, to start adding more duration.
She seemed to have a great time with the tunnel! You can use a tug toy to reward this too – she tugged really well during the sit game so I think she will be happy to tug in this game too.
Since it went so well, you can add in the threadle side entries (she is between you and the tunnel and has to turn away to get into it).Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
I am glad Reese did really well! So fun!!!>she picked it up and brought it to me! Twice. I used the French linen which is her best retrieve toy so far. Super happy with that!>
YES! Good choice of toy! And it is so cool to see the training from home transfer to a new game AND new location.
She was HILARIOUS with her outside leg (front right) on the first rep of the ‘out’ cue. A massive, obvious effort to use the other lead to hit the prop. Really good proprioception! She was not quite as exaggerated on the other reps (and very smooth moving to her left) but she was excellent at naturally picking up the difference between the ‘get out’ cues and the ‘move with da momma’ cues. When things dry out, you can add more distance outside if you like!
Great job :) Tracy
Good morning!
>In the live we did serpentine work. But, I don’t see a video for that this week. Are we supposed to be working on that?>
Try refreshing the page again? It should be visible.
>Reese had fun at the seminar. >
Yay! The video you posted looked super fun. And most importantly, she was able to be in a new environment with a zillion distractions and engage with happy focus. SUPER!!
>No drooling with the ginger cookies. But, after a two hour car ride home she drank a bunch of water and regurgitated. So, she may be hot in the crates. It was very warm when we left. I cranked the AC, but I don’t think enough air is getting back there.>
Hooray for no drooling! And yes, she might have been hot in the back – and lots of treats might have made her extra thirsty too. There are products out there that can shuttle the a/c very directly to the back (but also plenty of folks do a homemade version of it for a lot less $$. Here is a popular product:
Stay Cool In The Car, Keep Your Kids and Pets Cool On Hot Days
Have fun!
Tracy
