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Good morning!
Looking at both of the videos (the links in this second post are the same, let me know if there was supposed to be a different one): there is a lot of good stuff happening! And some ideas for you:
>We are having tons of trouble not running around the jump:>
He is dramatically improved! As an outside eye that only sees the videos, I see massive improvements in his jump commitment, both in the indoor session and the outdoor session. But it can improve a lot faster by looking at reinforcement.
>I see I’m still using my arms too much, but not sure what to change to make this easier for him.>
There is a bit of disconnection from the arm, yes, but I think the main thing is to adjust the rate of reinforcement. He is running at a rate of reinforcement that is too low, and that is what is creating some of the running past jumps. And a lot of it is handler bloopers 🙂 Here is what I mean:
On the videos, you are rewarding mostly only when you have worked out the handling and get it right, so he does the numbered sequence that you have in mind. But that is leading to a domino effect: he is running at a relatively low rate of reinforcement because the errors were almost all handling errors not canine errors, and you’re seeing some fallout behavior because of that. And that fallout behavior plus trying to fix things on the fly is leading to more things going sideways.
Remember that his reinforcement is not contingent on whether you get it right or not 🙂 When you get it right, he gets it right of course, over 95% of the time.
But if you are not clear with the handling, he can’t get it ‘right’ according to the map, but that doesn’t mean he is incorrect in his responses to your cues. He was actually correct with his responses in almost all of those moments.
So one way (and the most important way) to help him out is to reward even if he ends up in the wrong spot because it is not canine error, those oopsies are handler error and he was reading the cues correctly. You can reward either by continuing to the next obstacle and rewarding that, or by rewarding in the moment.
Resist the temptation to keep moving and fix on the fly – that doesn’t give you a moment to reset and clarify the info, and it is causing him to stay in motion without him really knowing what you. So after the reward, take a moment adjust before you ask for the next rep. And if you aren’t sure what to adjust, either watch the video or do a different thing until you can go watch the video.
That will ultimately lead to a higher rate of success & reinforcement, which will lead to more jump finding.
The fallout behavior I was seeing here was that some hiding in the tunnel, not bringing the toy back, spiraling wider lines/non-stop movement in some moments, and trying to watch you more which led to dropped bars and skipped jumps through the inside (which was more of a handler blooper but he was being careful so was super responsive to all of your movement).
He doesn’t seem like the type of dog to leave a session or frustration bite you, but there were definitely signs of stress from the lower reinforcement rate. And because withholding the reward a lot doesn’t actually build behavior, the jump finding was not necessarily improving as quickly as you wanted it to.
Looking at the first video:
The first rep was very good with jumping finding – the tunnel entry bloopers were handling timing and position, so he was correct on all of the. On the first rep, the blind was late at :18 and there was definite motion to the wrong end of the tunnel… reward that anyway, he was a good boy! Your connection was earlier at :26 but your motion and position all indicated the tunnel entry he went into… reward! Stopping and withholding reward indicates a punisher so while he will keep working, his arousal state will change and we will see other behaviors pop up – and we did indeed see that. He started focusing on you way too much and skipping jumps. That led to even less reinforcement – so it became a bit of a cycle and overall had a low rate of reinforcement.
You did clarify the handling and he got several good reps by the end of the session but we want to clarify and reward right from the start. The reward is what builds the behavior, so reward lots and lots as you fine tune the handling position and timing.
In the 2nd part – be sure to move more, so motion can support the line too. Standing still and sending to each jump was hard for him to read if your connection was too far forward (like at 5:40) so he was missing the jump there.
For example, at 8:12 you didn’t connect so he was correct to not take the jump based on what he saw. That was rewardable!
Outdoor video: There is more room here so there is more speed (plus more distractions/arousal from being outdoors) but he had a lot of good work here!
The hardest part was finding the jump out of the tunnel when he was on your right. This is where you can see the first failure or two, and break it down to pump up the reinforcement.
Mainly what was happening was he was going fast, and didn’t really see connection when he exited the tunnel with you moving, so he swung wide to get a better look at the info.
Breaking down that line from the tunnel exit to the purple jump was great, having him start from a stay and find the jump and get rewarded. You can totally do more than one rep of that though. Multiple reps of that will get lots of reward on board… then let it go and let him sleep on it. Isolate the skill, train it for 2 minutes, then do something else. Otherwise we run the risk of getting more failure and building in frustration and that is what happened. That skill was not quite ready to be done at speed, so there were a lot of reward withholding moments.
He is much better turning to his right than to his left here, so that is where you can do more of the handling as long as you reward him if it goes sideways For example at 8:16 you were blocking his line to the front of the jump so he went to the backside – that was exactly right according to the cue and timing, reward him!
At 9:15 the blind was actually too early (the disconnection to turn your shoulders started as he was approaching the yellow jump so there was not really a commitment cue for the middle jump) so he came immediately to the side change… he was correct there too – reward! By trying to fix it on the fly, you got the backside after the blind (9:21) – again, he was correct based on your position and connection: it was picture perfect backside position (he didn’t get rewarded there).For the next sessions, make the goal to find ways to reward reward reward. This might mean you can run the sequences, but if something goes sideways – reward then reset to figure out what he needs to see differently, or break it down to show him the line. I think that will make an exponential difference in how he finds the lines.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>My current plan is to “work” the handler mechanics items with Sly first as he is much happier to “just keep playing” as long as food or his tug is involved. >
I love this plan!!! The experienced dog can help jump start things, then the baby dog can come in for a bit and help provide feedback on what she sees without having to do a lot of reps. And everyone gets lots of rewards 🙂
>Millie is a lot more thoughtful and less able to repeat things as I work on “me” even with very, very high rates of reinforcement.>
As a young dog processing everything and moving her body through the relatively small spaces we have in agility, she probably burns more fuel during training than a smaller experienced dog. So it makes sense why she might not be able to do long sessions even with lots of rewards. Short and fun sessions are the way to go for sure.
Sly gives you a big thumbs up for your mechanics here! Single blinds: lovely! Double blinds: lovely! On the last one, you were so quick with the second blind the he changed sides really quickly even though he was relatively close to you.
>In the rep where he disappears, he’s rounding the jump wing just out of site that I have moved out of the way to clear some space for the flatwork.>
That was really cool because the handling cued the line to it, so off he went with no questions at all. Yay!
Since this went great, you can bring out Millie for a rep or two to see how she feels about it. If she has questions, you don’t need to train to answer the questions – you can reward then watch the video. Based on what you did here, I don’t think she would have had questions 🙂
Great job here! You can bring these mechanics to the next steps: move on to the wing games. And the tunnel games can be done concurrently.
Tracy
Hi!
>It’s been “state-of-emergency, cars winding up on top of 1.2m high fences” raining here for the last couple of days.>
That sounds NUTS! I am glad it is over!
>I cut out the bit where I needed to fix the MM. >
The MM is the most finicky device! It likes to break no matter what treats we use 😂
>Before i turned the video on i did some leg weaves and cookie stretches (to start building the routine). Interestingly he was less keen to turn right… we have a physio appointment to see if I’m just being dramatic! >
Good for you, both for starting the warm up routine and for getting him checked regularly to make sure his body is feeling good!!
The threadle slice session went well! Good job adding the verbal! And he did great with his stay too – well done for NOT releasing as soon as your hand moved into position. You were very strong with your mechanics.
And you were really good about reminding yourself to stand still – we want him to go to the jump bar by himself rather than waiting for a second cue by you closing your shoulders. So keep yourself frozen in position, no shoulder or arm movement, until he arrives at the MM (and you can trigger it as soon as he is at your hand so he moves to it without you.
The first side was really good, he seemed to have no questions other than learning that ‘come’ was indeed a release word. And I see what you mean when you switched sides: he was wanting to turn the same direction as the first part of the session and go to the front of the bar.
Watching it again – on the reps where he went to the bar and not the threadle hand, he was facing the bar in the lineup/stay. His feet were pointing right at it. When he came to the threadle like at 2:29 and 2:44 – his feet were facing the threadle hand. And when I went back through the other side where he was super successful: his feet were facing the threadle hand on each rep. Perhaps he is just super literal?
With that in mind, you can line him up with his feet facing the threadle hand to test the theory. And you can shake the threadle hand to give it more visibility on that side too. When he reads the difference between the two cues (serp and threadle) then I don’t think the exactness of the lineup will matter as much.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, I think you’d both do perfectly well in the MaxPup 2 that starts next week! There is another one coming after this session ends, so you can choose when you want to start it.
Tracy
Good morning!
>The local young dog workshops require skills we don’t have yet so the “Art of Play” workshop was perfect for both of us; it was so much fun!>
It looks fun!!! What skills do the young dog workshops require that you need? We can prioritize those if needed so you can get more workshops for him.
>I know there are still a few weeks left for this class but wanted to know if you are also offering a MaxPup 2. Even with being behind, I am getting a lot out of this course and want to continue without a long break.>
Yes – the upcoming MaxPup 2 is for the FastTrack group that just finished. There will be another MaxPup 2 coming for this Supersized group – It will start a couple of weeks after tis one finishes, so there will be just a short break. Stay tuned for a start date!
Tracy
Yes! You can add the next step. I also keep the baby level of the game in the rotation because it helps keep the puppies nice and flexible – it ends up being a great warm up before running courses!
>poor Dublin doesn’t get not tugging. I feel bad.>
Poor guy! Thankfully he also loves food so you can keep training as you heal up.
T
Hi!
>If you throw food to get her back then grab her and the game is over… she will stop coming back 🙂
Guilty!! It’s more like I throw food to get her close enough to me to put the long line back on to go back inside>The smart dogs figure this out very quickly, then use their brains even more to avoid the party ending 🙂
>We played around with this last night! Lexie, my 13 y/o will retrieve all day long, so she’s reliable to go get the thing & come back for more, Kelsie the 9 y/o will join in too! Everyone has a hollee roller, but Sunnie like the LArge one best so does Lexie so I have to get another one LOL>
Yay! Big thanks to Lexie and Kelsie for their help 🙂
>I experimented last night with this too -As much as SHE thinks the holle roller is a prize, when I tried to play with her with another one, not so exciting, but if I run around and drag the crazy tug toy (that has fuzzy & hollee roller on it), that got her going after me!>
She does love to chase! It is a great way to start the game.
>Oh btw I called her off a flying bird last night!! 😀 I had no long line on, having a slight heart attack as she took off running. I gave her the Biggest jackpot ever when she came running to ME! 😀>
That is HUGE!!!!! Good pup for coming to you and good YOU for the jackpot 🙂
Looking at the video: overall a really great session with good adjustments to help her be successful.
She has a lot of value for the front side of the jump so it took a couple of reps to show her it was a threadle – then she needed to take a moment to realize that was not about running to the taret LOL!At the beginning, moving her over so she had an easier video the line into the threadle REALLY helped her -then it was smooth sailing so she could get it from any angle. SUPER! The next step is to mix in some serp reps where you show her when you want her to go to the front side of the jump versus the cue to threadle.
>Tonight we are sharing a lesson with a friend, 1st time trying this. We will be in a dirt arena (new to Sunnie). I would like to try to piece 2 things together & see how she does & modify if we have to. Wing wrap> straight jump to bowl, straight jump to wing wrap, rocking horse game with 2 wings. Thoughts?>
The lesson sounds super fun! Be sure to start with some engagement like tricks and tugging, and pattern games as a mental warm up to be sure she can engage in the new & harder location. All of the 2-part skills you mentioned should be things she can do really well. And you can even try wing to tunnel if there is a short straight tunnel. Give her a warm up with one thing (like wrap the wing) then if that goes well, wing to wing or wing to jump etc.
I trust your instincts and training skills to guide you: if it feels like she will be successful – try it! If she has a question, make it easier. And bring fabulous rewards 🙂 Keep me posted!
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
> Toy play might need to wait till after my Dr follow up Thursday lol. Hand is doing well but tug pressure might hurt too much.>
Yes, you totally do not want to tug with that right hand! Eek! That would hurt. You can just have a toy laying there and not actually use it (sorry Dublin!)
>Not sure why I got confused for my mechanics on this one even though I watched the video a few times. That messed us up but overall I thought it went well.>
Wait, did you cut out the bad parts? I only saw really good stuff!! I thought your mechanics were really strong – the mechanics when he started on your left were pretty perfect. And the mechanics when he was on your right were a little harder – perhaps he doesn’t feel as comfy turning to his left (he was a little wider although he did a great job, and offered a right turn and some lovely line ups LOL) and you might not be as comfy using your right hand and had to think about it (especially after surgery). But overall, I think you did a fantastic job with a game that is quite challenging in terms of mechanics! You had strong click timing too, and he was turning his head really well. Super!
> My in person agility instructor had commented on how tight his turns seem to be the other day. He seems to like going around things for sure lol.>
I agree – he is really good at using his body and coordinating turns.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, 9kg is big enough for a kick*ss 2o2o! My dog Export was 9kg and had a great 2o2o teeter, and Hot Sauce is a little heavier and she also has a strong 2o2o. And I know a lot of Shelties who had fantastic 2o2os before 4ons became fashionable (but really no one has a good answer why they are better for bigger dogs, because they are not reliably faster :))
So yes, you can do a 2o2o. Or you can teach him the scratching/digging and see which he likes better! He can dig on the ground with the 2o2o LOL!
T
Hi!
This went really well – the front crosses were just about perfect! And you had excellent connect on the exit of the spins (front to blind) so he exactly where you wanted him (the other side of the tunnel). I see the exit line connection from the blind cross class too – click/treat for you!!!! It was very clear for Copper.At :50 you did a regular blind (not a spin) so he was correct to go back into the tunnel entry in front of him (same as the front cross) but you felt that in the moment and rewarded. Super!
Great job here! You can move on to the next game!
Tracy
Hi!
>For the teeter I was planning to do 4 on. He seems to like 2o2o though, so now I’m not quite sure.>
2o2o is a clearer position and he likes clarity! But he needs to be heavy enough to do it without getting thrown off by the teeter board. I would say 8.5kgs or over is definitely doable for 2o2o! But less than that gets a little iffy. How much does he weigh? If he is in 4on range, then we add a fun behavior at the end of the board so he will like it and have a clear thing to do. I teach my small dogs to dig at the end when they arrive there (my Papillon is 5kg and my Pap mix is 7.5kg). They both enjoyed digging at the end of the board in training. I faded the digging after they had been competing for a bit and were still driving to the end of the board.
>Aelfraed says he is a big fan of chasing the auntie! He did start to figure out that pouncing on the treat hugger was also fun. Even though he over-ran it and went back for it most of the time, he was happy to snatch his bread and butter out of it himself when he got to it, even jamming his face into it a few times.>
PERFECT!!! I didn’t see him looking at you and once he got on the Go line, he was too busy to even bark at you LOL!! Ok then, Shaelyn has been hired to be official Bread Runner. The next step is to have her out there the whole time, and you add in the turns, etc. so her presence is not the indication to run straight: it is the GO cues from you that are the indication for both of them to run run run 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
She did well with the target here! Very smart! The next step is to not have the cookie on the target 🙂 Let her get to position and you then place the cookie on it. And you can change your position so she can do it with you anywhere, even with you walking.
And turning around on the plank was easy peasy for her. When you are back at the training facility, is there an easy way to take a plank off the dog walk? That would be fun to introduce her too if possible.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
He did like the peanut butter and wanted to lick it off, but he did not like the movement of the board here. What was happening was that there was too much ‘whip’ of the board for now – the MAD teeters are very light so the board whips up and down a lot. You can see the vibration on the part that was off the ground when he was at the top and when he was off it, and you can see it move the tip-assist as he got on it too. That makes it harder for the dogs – he was not a fan of the whip and vibrations. He did great on the first rep going up the board and eating the PB at the top. But then there was a lot of whip getting off it that is when he had a big full body shakeoff after it – then ran past the board and was reluctant to get on it. After that was when he was not comfortable at the top (as compared to the first rep).So keep going with the peanut butter but you can stabilize the board more:
> I also think maybe I should put a sand bag on the tip-it.>
Totally yes! Maybe a couple of sand bags on the base and on the feet. I also suggest a sand bag on the base of the teeter (ideally one on each leg), and a towel or something under the top of the teeter where it meets the tip it. That will all greatly reduce the whip and help him be a lot more comfy running all the way up it. And will he be happy to let you pick him up off the end, rather than let him run down it? Most of the weird movement is happening when he is running back down the board, so since he is small we can avoid it by having you pick him up 🙂
Nice work! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
> I’ve been deliberate in choosing words/sounds that are distinct from one another, but I haven’t thought about how I say them.>
I have spent quality time obsessing on this, which I am sure surprises no one haha 🙂 In a nutshell: tight turns work best with short, quiet consonant-based words/sounds that can be repeated rapidly and softly.
Soft turns work best with a more conversational tone and volume, elongating words and emphasizing vowels.
Extension lines work best with very loud repeated words that are elongated and emphasizing the vowels: gOOOOO gOOOOO for example.The wingin’ it game went well! He was committing really well even when you were sending fully rotated. When you were doing 4 wings in a row, the first couple had the send then moving forward then rotating. Then you stayed in the rotation and ended up running backwards a bit – so you can move forward out of each send for a few steps before decelerating and rotating. That should feel more comfy than moving backwards.
> A few questions at the end of the racetracks related to my change of motion, I’m sure. >
I think the race tracks went well – the dogs are used to wrapping these wings so the race track on 4 wings is hard! It looked easier turning to his right than to his left, but the left turns went well til wing 4 where he had a small question. That will disappear with a bit more experience.
You also did a good jobs with the verbals!! There are a LOT of verbals in this exercise and I think you were almost 100% with them until the very end where a loo was happening and it should have been a razz 🙂 But yes, the physical cue is the salient cue for now, so he still got the correct line.
Looking at the straight lines 4 ways video:
The tunnel exit points him a little past the cactus jump, almost to the backside of it. So when you showed acceleration into the tunnel and an extension exit at :07, he ran a parallel path to yours which put him on the backside line to the jump. He adjusted and came in to get the next jump – reward that for sure, no need to go back to fix the jump he went past because he was reading the cues on how to exit the tunnel which sent him past the jump.
At :20 and :32, you had less acceleration into the tunnel so he turned and found the cactus jump perfectly! To get the wrap a little tighter, you can start the decel and verbal for it when he is jumping the cactus jump so he lands knowing what to do next.
Nice job with the backsides on the last 2 reps! You did a blind to get there at :33 – you can start the blind 1 stride sooner by sending to the tunnel more, so you can get past the cactus jump sooner.
Your line to the backside at :52 was really strong! On both of the backside commitments, you can keep your arms back behind you more and use direct eye contact as the primary cue along with your motion. I know it sounds so counterintuitive 🙂 but that direct eye contact shows him the exact line of your shoulders and center of your chest. The arm blocks that so it took him a little longer to adjust. Think of it as saying the backside verbal directly to him rather than pointing at where you want him to go.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hello and welcome! Great to see you here!!
Lovely job getting her tugging as you entered the ring. She loves that toy!!! You can totally trade for a treat to get it back rather than hold her collar (that seemed to cause her to want the toy *more*). For my toy-driven youngsters, I trade for a treat and toss it to the side, which gives me time to tuck the toy away. And this game doesn’t need a stay. You can add in stays as the games get more complex.
It took her a moment to lock into the jumps here – they are very close together so it was hard for her to reduce her speed to find the line. Easy solution: spread them out 🙂 She wants to go fast and I am here for it!
Nice job getting lots of treat throws for her and she was able to find the line. Keep the bars lower for now (8″) because the smaller distances plus stopping to get treats can make it harder to adjust for even a 12″ bar.
She found the jumps brilliantly in the 2nd video! 2 suggestions: Keep mixing in rewards throughout the line, not just on the last jump.
Also, you were connecting really well. You can be more upright and connected, rather than leaning over as much.
Since these games went really well, you can add in the next steps with the tunnel and with the sends. That will lead really well into the sequencing!
Great job!
Tracy
