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Good morning!
>We used the practice ring at this weekend’s West Coast Cup for some find the jump regardless of the line stuff and some push wraps, wing wraps, threadle slice, push slice stuff in short sequences and he did really well. >
Fun! I love that UKI has the practice rings – they are a valuable opportunity for the youngsters in particular.
The set point is going well – his form overall is really good. The best organizations into the first jump were when you were moving then released. When you released and moved all at the same time (like on the first couple of reps), he exploded forward but wasn’t quite organized for the first bar. When you had the toy dragging at a steady pace for several steps before the release, he was much more organized 🙂 Just be sure that he doesn’t predict the release and start to move before it. He is very clever LOL! It was hard to hear but I think there were 2 spots where he predicted the release and was moving right before the release. You can mix in some surprise rewards for the stay as well 🙂
The bar was higher by the end and he did well – given his age, the next jump games detour into different elements of jumping like shifting side to side and net week we add maintaining balance.
Minny pines are also going well – he seems to have no trouble turning away which is often the hardest part. He was still sorting out the organization of turning away (some footwork was a little uncomfortable) but that is not going to be an issue for him – I bet he sleeps on it then comes back knowing how to do it 🙂
Was he not loving the collar hold line up? Ideally we hold the pups until we can say the verbal a few times. At 2:27 it looks like he was wanted to keep moving and not start from the hold – you made it fun and the last few reps were really good, but if you feel he is getting an ‘ick’ from starting from the hold then we can change it up so it is an ick-free game 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi! She was really excellent here!
>I put a toy by the center of the tunnel. Then I added the orange toy. Then the yellow toy at the far end of the tunnel.>
She basically ignored all of it! There were a couple of little bloopers but those were due more to handling questions:
At :10 she was cueing off your feet more than thinking about the distraction. Your feet were going straight (towards the weaves) so she went straight too.
Compare to the other direction at :23 and the reps after that, where your feet turned to the jumps more and she got it right.
The only other time she didn’t find the jumps was at 1:12 you didn’t have the same motion or foot work so she wasn’t sure
Then she went to look at the toy on the ground 🙂At 1:50 it looks like you wanted the weaves but the turn on the cone was actually too tight 🙂 so she didn’t get the weave info in time – the threadle wrap on the cone looked good there!
So as you work through adding more to the pressure games: what kinds of things distract her at a trial? We can start to sort out ways to add slices of them so that she gets to experience real-world distractions 🙂
For the threadle wraps – your hands are the strongest cue for her, so as you change your line to bring her to the other side of the cone or jump, also show really big hand cues. The try to flip her back to the obstacle using your hands only. When you use your feet to change her line too, it works if your timing is spot on (2:09 and 2:48) but if you are a step early (2:23) she follows your feet and takes the front of the jump. If your line is good but she doesn’t see the hand cues, she thinks it is the front of the jump (2:33). At 2:33 you were using your hands but they were up high and in front of you, so she didn’t see them. You can lower your hands and show them to her, and I think she will lock right onto them.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree – she is able to think about her body more now that she is better understanding how to ignore the toy. This session went really well!
You were able to add angles which definitely made it harder – I think the left turns on the hard angle were definitely the hardest (at the end). Even when she did get it, it was not as bendy as the hard angles to the right. Turning left, she had to think about there front feet more and her hind end slipped a little. Compare to the really hard right turn angles earlier no the session – smooth as silk! So I think she is a bit stronger turn right for now, but it will all even out soon.
Keep working the various hard angles, and you can also add he advanced levels. As you go to the more advanced levels, be sure to also hold her collar at first so she can hear the verbals before moving. The more advanced levels aren’t as obvious in terms of handling making things clear, so letting her hear the verbals before moving will definitely help 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
OMG! I am crossing all fingers and toes that you get a great offer letter!! And it is good to see the boot is gone 🙂 hopefully it stops rubbing the bruise!He did really well with finding the jump here! And he was a super good boy about bringing the toy right back 🙂
>I am hoping it is ok to say the word jump to ask him to go to the jump. >
Absolutely! He was finding the jump really well so it was good to ‘name’ it. And I know you are not back to running full blast yet, but I bet you can vary your position more to challenge him. You can move the start wing so you are sending to the tunnel from further away, which will put you way ahead without having to work hard to get there.
Or, you can go with him to the tunnel entry which will put him ahead of you when he exits: can he drive ahead (I think he can :))
And based on his excellent commitment here – I bet he will also allow you to get more laterally away from the jump and also you can add even more distance between the tunnel and jump. At the end of the session, he was really finding it without needing you to be near it: good boy!
And it sounds like someone came into the building which distracted him for a moment, but then he got right back to work. GOOD BOY!
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Good morning!
>The pointing arm is something I’ve done for a long time so trying to break the habit can be challenging. >
I can totally relate! I broke the habit by running with an open bottle of water in my hand over and over and over 🙂 That combined with making sure I look at the dog’s eyes made a massive difference in re-training my handling 🙂
He also gives great feedback about pointing versus connection. He is used to check in at tunnel exits and if you are pointing, he needs to process the line on the send to drive ahead (as you can see on the first couple of reps) – and he doesn’t send as fast on those.
When you have clear connection – there is still a bit of checking in (because he is used to doing it) but then he looks forward sooner AND goes faster 🙂
And when you give him a big GO before he enters the tunnel to help him drive straight on the exit: that GO plus connection means he doesn’t have to look at you or slow down at all (like at 1:16). SUPER!!! So definitely add the verbals before he enters the tunnel, it really helps him.
I grabbed some screenshots so you can see the difference:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xKdc_KpYDA_u5_k2n4j97Pq257IzFhxfA4QWw0k5iWQ/edit?usp=sharingHe found the line after the send really well! That lead to the front of the jump and push to backside being easy. The threadle wraps at 1:11 & 1:23 were lovely – it is great how different the verbal cue sounds too. For the balance rep, he turned well but you can also call him right before he enters the tunnel so he knows for sure that you want the turn and he doesn’t have to check in and look at you.
>Last clip jump, tunnel, jump and I went right in with him. I suppose eventually I should be able to send him and stay behind the two jumps.>
Yes, and I think he can do it – you were focusing more on connection and not on distance, so that was fine to go in there.
>The one thing I noticed when I had the pointing arm is I did send him from further back. >
Moving forward more when you were focusing on the connection is probably because your brain was all about the connection 🙂 No worries! Being able to send with connection will get easier – yo can use a soft, low hand that follows his nose and he will still see the connection.
>I can see Rexx is capable so my homework is to trust his send and turn sooner>
Perfect! The very direct connection is very helpful for sending too, because it helps line up your shoulders to the line to support his line.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
>The downside of my new class is I miss the Monday calls now.>
We miss seeing you! But the value of the in-person class is very high. Let me know if you have thoughts about it or questions when you see the video. We got a little nerdy last night 🙂
>We had our second group class last night and we were able to do more. >
YAY! Sounds fantastic and he did well in the ring!
>I picked the equipment that was not on the fence between the 2 rings. >
Smart 🙂
>He had a small bit of distraction on the second side (after a class had started in the other ring) – during 2 bowl pattern- he did look away at the dog running in the other ring, but he returned to the pattern. >
This is still a big success! Looking away is no big deal – just processing 🙂 How long did he look/how long til he went back to the pattern? We can track latency.
>He also got himself into a bit of an adolescent moment. He took a jump up near a corner of the ring and the instructor was standing there. He decided to go over to her, which he really does not want to do. He sniffed then barked at her. He did recall back to me immediately and we had a big toy party. I think it was the tight space – all up in the corner that contributed to this.>
If this happened at the end of the class, it was also likely due to him being depleted at the end of a challenging class. Being super successful in the class doesn’t mean he isn’t depleted. So next time you have extra time and want to do one more thing? Don’t do it 😂. Falling into the “just one more” trap often results in these moments.
When he is on the way to investigate a person, will he recall to you *before* he gets there? And it can be a clear “get yer butt over here right now” recall when he takes the first step away to investigate. Mals appreciate the clarity of the “do this NOT that” because of how their brains process work (which is a bit different than most other breeds).
>He did recall back to me immediately and we had a big toy party. >
This is why we want to not have the behavior happen in the first place because the toy party can be a slippery slope in terms of reinforcement: what exactly is being reinforced? Are you reinforcing the recall only? Or the chain of events leading to the recall? But definitely not reinforcing NOT going to the person in the first place, which is the more ideal reinforcement in this scenario.
For example: with my half Mal (who is very Mal-like in his brain), I just say “Dude…” which is a ‘don’t do that, absolutely NO reward for that’ marker that I have used exactly twice in his 2.5 years of life 🙂 Neither was followed by a recall or cookie or toy (I went to him both times to reset the behavior) – and both were followed by another opportunity in the moment and the reward came for the “Do THIS” rather than after doing something I didn’t want to see repeated. So the undesired behavior has gone away (in his case, it was going to another dog to steal the toy out of the dog’s mouth) and is replaced with engaging with me.
>If there are specific things I can do with people, she is willing to help out.>
She can be in the picture and maybe a bit further away especially when things are quiet – quieter moments are harder! What would Judge do if she turned her back on him and walked away, if he approached her?
>Overall, very happy with how it’s going. He was able to do some stationing on his cot before his turns, spend time in the car and navigate the building.>
Yay!
> He even disengaged from 2 dogs in the earlier class who were hard staring at him while he was on his cot. >
Good for him!! That is hard!!!
>One handler was completely oblivious and the other saw her dog doing it and she redirected her dog. >
That sums up dog sports environments: some folks are oblivious, some are paying attention.
>I have my head on a swivel in these situations – he is not a dog who has a lot of tolerance for being stared at, so he did a great job last night.>
Good for you! And when it happens, you can take him out of the situation for a decompression so he can release some of that pressure before going back into the environment.
>I think I’m going to start working on having him in a soft crate too – thinking about the inevitable winter.>
You can create a Kingdom Of Judge setup where he can relax: soft crate or folding wire crate which is more solid and not too hard to carry. For example, there is one event each year where I have to crate 6 of my dogs in a crowded environment. I bought large cardboard presentation panels from the office supplies/school supplies aisle at Walmart: One goes across the top of the crate and then I hang a giant blanket over it. That way he has a safe, enclosed space and can’t pull the blanket into the crate if it is a wire crate. And I have additional panels that create a bit of a fortress especially at the front of the crate – it blocks my dog’s view of all the dogs walking by so my dog can chill. And, it prevents other dogs from coming right up to my crates. Food for thought!
Thanks for the update! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
Thanks for your good questions last night!
>So, plan of action with Luna is to just do short sequences and reward. We do remote reinforcements in our backyard as well as in class. More successful in our backyard than in class when it comes to remote reinforcement runs.>
When thinking about Luna, a couple of ideas come to mind:
The main thing is that she might have a negative conditioned emotional response (classical conditioning) to the trial environment, so we need to unpair anything negative that creates stress, and only pair things that create positive feelings (happy feelings of success and fun fun fun :)) It will take a bit of time to turn things around but it can totally be done!
A big yes to more remote reinforcement at home and at class – but keep those sequences simpler so there are no handling bloopers or errors. Remote reinforcement is a skill (just like weave poles are a skill) so she needs to know how to do it with confidence, but also you don’t need to do it all the time. You can and should still have plenty of runs where there is super high value rewards in the ring 🙂 and a high rate of success 🙂 Maybe do a 50-50 split: 50% of the training runs use the remote reinforcement skill, and 50% of the training runs use the high quality rewards in the ring.
For trials: this is where we really will work on changing the conditioned response!
Keep working on the outside-the-ring games, as well as adding the newer games to use inside the ring: we just added Leash Off Engagement ON! And in the Launch webinar, checkout the the cookie-free pattern games and Ready-Set-Go starts.
When those games are good at home, bring them to class. When she is happy with those games at home and at class, do them with remote reinforcement at home and in class.
Then they can go to trials. But with the trials, the best way to change her conditioned response to the trial environment is to work through each stage of the NFC progression. Pretend it is her very first trial experience!
We need to sort out a ‘just like home’ way to do it. She is a foodie so I don’t think a toy will work for her at a trial. But remind me if she likes balls? We can also create a ‘bridge’ that you can bring into the ring that indicates the availability of the food reinforcement, if she isn’t into balls.
When she is able to run happy and fast doing the ‘Just Like Home’ NFC, we can move to the next stage but I think figuring out the first step will be key.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
How did the class go, overall? I really like what I saw here.
The clip at the beginning looked great – ending with the MM and then the trip to the snuffle box. He seemed super focused and engaged. The distractions were present but far enough away that they didn’t draw him.
He had lots of praise and success for his work and I was thrilled with how he stuck with you during the transition *after* the MM reward in the 2nd round too, when you did the leather strip decompression. It looks like he was indeed chewing them here?
>Not sure if how I approached this was good but it did really seem to help him allow me to get the leash back on.>
I think it went really well and set up success. If getting the leash back on is normally a big challenge, or him taking off during transitions after rewards is normally a challenge… we didn’t see any of that here. YAY!!! When he came out for his turn *after* the snuffle mat, how did he do and did he seem relaxed and engaged? Did he have another turn after the leather chewing?
Since the leather strips can get gross 😂 maybe try a bully stick as a decompression to chomp?
But overall I think he did well and looking at how he responds over a series of classes will direct us to figure out what the best options are for him.
>You mentioned seeing if he is a sight tracker rather than goal? What should I try?>
Sign trackers actually seem to get more reinforcement from the cue (or sign) to do ‘the work’ rather than from the reinforcement (cookies) itself. By training him like a ‘goal’ tracking dog (getting cookies from you) perhaps we are working against his biology, rather than with it, which would be why you both get frustrated.
Since we are not in a laboratory setting, we don’t have electrodes in his brain, and the actual experiments to see if the animal is a sign tracker versus goal tracker are a little unethical (involving aversives to some degree), we can play around and see how he responds.
It is possible that dogs consider the Manners Minder to be a sign/cue for work (not a goal, which is what we humans think it is) in terms of reinforcement. I mean, the treats in the MM are not even close to the quality of the pork you have, but yet he loves it SO MUCH. So you can keep the MM in play during sequences – he runs a simple sequence then you go to the MM as the reward (rather than throwing it from your hand). Keep it really easy at first so it is easy for you to give the cues and easy for him to process with the MM nearby.
And in sequencing, keep moving and giving the next cue, no matter what happens. He does great? Next cue! Leading to the MM or the snuffle mat or toy. Something goes wrong? Next cue! Still working and moving. And for the leash going on, give MORE work cues after it, like running back to the MM or chasing the thrown lotus ball. Cues for work and cues for movement might work better with who he is.
Let me know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee to explain it LOL 😂
Tracy
Hi!
I like that you have a treat hierarchy! Super!!
>Tier 6 is only at competitions, my dogs get meatballs after a run. They love the meatballs but I save meatballs for trials. So I didn’t have meatballs that night.>
Since thunderstorms are harder than trials for her, you can bring meatballs along to see if that helps when there is bad weather.
And when you are in an environment where she is going to possibly be afraid, you can start with the highest tier to see if you can immediately break through the fear so she can run without fear. But if she is still afraid, consider either running just simple simple stuff for highest value rewards, or not running at all so that she doesn’t experience any fear in the ring.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>This is not the first time she has struggled doing a dig to start a course. Not sure what I’m doing wrong.>
I think it is a combination of her lineup and which way you are facing:
You can use a clean line up and stay, and line her up on a little more of a slice facing the landing spot, which presents the bar without showing the backside option.But also, when you send to the jump: connect more directly to her eyes and step directly to the jump more. At :05, :54 & 1:01 you are kind of facing away and stepping sideways to it – I think she is unsure and going to the backside to see the bigger picture of where you are turned too.
At 1:09 you were facing away even more so she came to the inside threadle wrap line (which is actually correct, based on your position 🙂 )
So when you release her, make a big connection and step to the wing you want her to take and see how she does with that cue.
She was paying good attention to the cues on the sequences!
At :14 – you looked ahead which cued her to change sides (blind cross) so the reconnection got her back on the original side.
Another spot she was paying close attention was at 1:15 – you turned away so she followed your line when you said jump. Good girl! That is a spot where you can keep going! She was correct and stopping to reset without reward is deflating. She got a treat 5 seconds later but it didn’t correlate to the sequence. That is a spot where you can take another jump or two, reward, then start over.
One thing I notice here is that I think Bella likes words, lots of words 🙂 When you got really quiet :17-:24 and 1:34 – 1:42 for example, she slowed down and looked at you a lot. Compare to :07-:10 when you were not moving a lot or not super connected but you gave her a big GO and she was fast & happy there. So add more verbals and be a little louder and more repetitive with them and see how she likes it 🙂
Looking at the bowls video:
I feel like there are always sirens or car alarms in your videos when on road trips with Chaser LOL!
She did great here, super quick responses. The next steps to this game would be to take it to dog sport environments and see how she does! You can use super high value food for that if the environment is hard, or if it is REALLY hard, super high value food plus distance away from the distractions. It might mean starting in the parking lot but that is a great place to start.Nice work here!
Tracy
Howdy!
>My brains already oozing.>
Yes, it is a brain-oozer at first but then you will see it makes perfect sense! And guess what – Border Collies and Malinois are typical breeds for being sign trackers (SHOCKING – NOT! HA!!!)
Even though my Plot Twist is only half Malinois, he appears to be a total sign tracker which is why as soon as I clearly outlined what the rules of the game are, he has made an astonishingly easy transition into the competition environment and even into competition itself, in the craziest environments.
>I’m feeling stuck in the weeds.>
Probably because most training approaches things with the assumption that dogs are goal tracking, meaning working for a reward like cookies and they need to know how/where the reward is delivered. It is entirely possible that is why Chaser finds these scenarios somewhat ‘meh’ and sometimes uncomfortable. But I have seen him when he is feeling fabulous and super responsive and super comfortable, so we just have to embrace the potential of his sign tracking self and approach things differently (especially when obedience is involved around other dogs, because he doesn’t want to go into the building at first).
>Chase had his Bella chase and Dan class today and I’m not really sure what I should be using class for to make the most of it.>
Signs & cues are now top priority as the gateway, incentive salience is the new buzz phrase for him: WANTING rather than just liking something. Goal trackers like things… I think sign trackers WANT to do things. Not quite the same! More later on that.
>Instant focus?
That is one thing to do. Switch his instant focus obstacle to something like a cone or barrel or wing (all of these have value, I believe). When it is his turn, bring him right into the ring, send him around the cone/barrel/wing…. then take off and run run run with a giant fun tug or throw a friz or any delivery that he has loved in the past.
>Tricks and tug?
Nah.
>Bella and Chase in the ring?>
Can he hang out on a station or table or something while Bella does a little agility? You can be with him of course, holding the leash. Don’t ask him to eat or anything. Can he just stand ringside?
>Pattern with bowl and toy?>
I am interested in seeing how this goes: but we can tweak the pattern since you have the ring available:
cookie in bowl – he eats it and engages.
This is where you can try two different variations and see what he does:
after he eats it and engages, tug tug tug to the next bowl. Then cookie in the bowl, repeat.Or – cookie in bowl, he eats it and engages with you. Then over a jump (or around a cone or through a tunnel, to the next bowl (can also be the original bowl), cookie in a bowl, repeat the process).
And video ALL the things so we have visuals to go with the theoreticals!
T
If you want to get a better (and nerdy) understanding of this, do a quick google of sign tracking versus goal tracking in dogs. I believe Chaser leans more to being a sign tracking dog, which is why many of the reward strategies we might use such as cookies for pattern games are kind of ‘meh’ to him, versus when he gets to move, do a thing, watch some action, etc. This is not that abnormal for a lot of working dogs that are wired to attend to things in the environment, and in many ways it can ultimately make competing *easier* not harder. It is based on classical conditioning, not operant conditioning necessarily and it is also simply part of who the dog is.
I have added more about this to tonight’s chat. It is fascinating and informative, and should help reduce the feeling of frustration you might have when the ‘normal’ things don’t work as well for our sign trackers as they do for our goal trackers.
T
Hi!
>At a trial I have gone into carrying her in as otherwise she get focused on the previous dog or does spinning and jumping up and down and frustration builds fast especially if there is a delay>
You can add carrying her in during training too – mix it in with sometimes bringing her in on leash.
>I got into the habit of picking her up in training as she hates it if I ignore her. ie if I stop to think between runs about what I am doing.>
You can find a middle ground of giving her rewards and either letting her play with a toy or let her hunt for treats in the grass.
>Although not sure she doesnt think being put away isnt punishment too. she definitely plays keep away if she thinks she is going away after a short bit. >
It depends on how you signal it. If you reward her for what she was just doing, then maybe put her on leash or gather her up – then reward again. And you can take her to an end of run jackpot before putting her away, with another reward. That can help her understand that it is a short break and not a punishment.
>The jumping up is worst when I ask for a wait staying still is something she really struggles with even when not highly aroused>
This is where you can use the cookie-free pattern game behaviors to give her an outlet for that arousal. It can be hand touches or leg weaves or spins on the way to the jump before asking for a wait.
>She seems to have learnt how to work with the toy present generally at the moment. >
Yes, she is doing really well with that!
>In the ring no toy is needed even when backsides are present and we dont get jumping and biting even when I stuff up>
It is possible that you keep going more in the ring, less stopping and trying to re-start. That is where a lot of the frustration builds from.
>She definitely understands in the ring the reward is outside in her bag and she knows where her bag is. >
Great!
>In training perhaps I need to do this more but she definitely thinks reward needs to come fast when something in training is hard or even more so if I get it wrong.>
The main thing is to not let her know that you got it wrong. Just keep going, reward something else as if it was perfect, then after that you can sort out how to fix whatever happened.
>Biting or leaping has got worse when I am asking for a wait – In training have been waiting it out largely so we dont run together until she sits and waits. >
Build in the cookie free pattern game behaviors and see if that helps.
>But definitely need to work more on not needing the toy when she gets crazy have been doing that at home where the arousal levels is slightly lower.>
You won’t need it if you never stop on course 🙂 No stopping to fix and definitely not reaching for her.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Quick clip on my second run from 10-12 doing backside blind on 11 keeping bar up.>
That looks really good! Note how you were past the jump as he was over the bar, giving him plenty of room to drive through it with speed.
> We tried keeping him on the left but wasn’t successful because he would pop the weaves if I started moving that way. >
You can add in some reps of rewards at the end of the poles when you are moving away more and more, very gradually. A thrown reward to the exit of the poles will keep him looking forward through the poles, even as you add more and more distance away from the poles.
>Would I cue the threadle slice from behind as I would a wrap and then move past the jump and turn? >
Yes, and in theory he would drive past you to do the threadle. That is a hard skill that you can break down and show it to him from being next to him, then from one step behind him, and so on so he can execute it with you behind him.
>Also, in this clip is a scenario similar to 4-5 that I did at home. Was that better handling?>
Yes! You started moving forward as he passed you. That set up the turn really well and also got you way ahead on the next line 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
