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Hi!
>felt like this was a very messy session >
I don’t think it was messy, I think it was informative!
>And this girl does love her pool! She was given breaks to go play in the pool during the session, but I guess she wanted a few more!>
That was actually hilarious, the splash was so emphatic LOL!!!!
Looking at the session: She is really watching everything, as you can see at :04 when your change of motion as you changed the toy from hand to hand overrode the go cues. Sighthounds see all LOL But she is also listening!
So with that in mind, here are 2 adjustments that will make it feel smoother:
– when you are not going to cue a straight line, you can take out the ‘go on go’ for the cue for the jump before the tunnel. When you were doing that, she was going straight and was surprised when there was a turn cue on the 2nd jump. You can use it for the tunnel exit or use a jump verbal for the jump after the tunnel (or no verbal :)). From the stay, a regular release would be fine there. The ‘go on go’ has value in terms of going full on in extension (unless you move the toy from hand to hand, then the toy wins LOL)
– you can add another 5 or 6 feet of distance between the 2 jumps, to give yourself and her a bit more processing time. That way you can show the wrap decel and Rc line even better.
For the wraps to the left: for most of them, you were running into the rotation, so she either was getting the info late (like at 1:15), or it read as a RC (like at 1:37). To help her see it sooner, as she is approaching the jump after the tunnel, you can decelerate facing the wrap wing. Then as she is passing you and beginning to collect you can rotate. The decel is the main part of the cue, so make it prominent 🙂 and then the rotation will be after it – and her turns will be super nice! And if your decel is too abrupt or happens with the rotation, you might pull her off the bar.
For the RC to the right, you can get on the RC line to the center of the bar even sooner – even before she is taking the jump after the tunnel, you can be moving to the enter of the bar. She will pass you can get the RC. When you did that, like at 1:05, the Rc looked great! Nice party there as you rewarded her!
Also, with the wrap verbals… say them a few times as you decel, not just once. So it would be a quiet skiskiskiski as you slowed down, so she doesn’t miss it.
About the pool moments…
The first Rc at 1:57 kind of set the line into the pool, she felt it was the next obstacle LOL!
Then at 2:16 it looks like you over-rotated to be parallel to the bar, which pushed her off the line to the backside (and into the pool) – your line should be to where the wing meets the bar, not parallel to the bar. Your connection was really good!So overall, it was a helpful session to see what she needs in terms of cues and she got some swims in too LOL
Great job!
TracyHi!
The tandems looked really good here! You were emphasizing lining your feet up to the correct one so he knew exactly where to be. Super!!! The line of your feet plus the clear use of your hands & verbal made. This look pretty easy!
Since this went so well, you can move to the threadle wraps – where he doe a complete circle around the wing as you move forward. You were throwing the reward back to him here which was great, so definitely keep doing that when you add the threadle wraps too.
Nice work!!
Tracy
Hi!
I think this session went really well!
>so I didn’t do everything correctly and Max was starting to get bored when he doesn’t want to do something. He starts jumping on top of the tunnel or he just bark at me>
You must have edited out those reps 🙂 I didn’t see any shenanigans! You were really working the connection and that makes all the difference. When he can see your eyes, he knows where to be so definitely keep connecting and keeping our arm back so he sees it. You also did a great job of shifting your connection to the ‘landing’ spot on these so he was able to commit as you moved forward.
He was sometimes unsure when the hand with the toy in it was pointing forward: grab the toy? Or go to the wing? So you can keep the toy or a ball in your pocket rather than you hand, which might make it even easier.
And feel free to post bloopers 🙂 Short sessions are definitely great!
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>We have been working some and I just get lazy about editing and posting.>
Editing is the biggest pain 🙂 So you can just post the whole video without editing it, I am happy to scroll through the in-between moments 🙂
The 4 ways game looked really good – nice job with the verbals on all of it!
>I haven’t really taught her backsides yet. So for those, I pretty much pushed her there.>
Pushing looked great in both directions! Good handling like that can produce the backsides even if you have not spent a lot of time training them.
The front side wraps also looked good!!
>On the go line work, I did it several times and then realized that we were essentially doing a wrap because I was staying back and she was coming back for the reward. So I tried again with throwing the toy to get her to keep going. I have also worked on this with just a straight line of jumps and sending her to a dead toy. Is that kind of exercise helpful?>
Yes, throwing the reward like you did at 1:19 is most ideal – throwing something heavy and early will keep her from looking back at you. You can also place it out ahead sometimes, as long as you also work on getting the Go line without it there so the placed toy does not become the cue to take the straight line 🙂
Looking at the rear crosses:
>On the rear crosses, I included a blooper that happened a bunch. Where she would turn right before the jump. We couldn’t get past that for many reps.>
What was happening that caused the question (and putting you behind her more than you wanted to be) was that you were facing the straight line til she got past you, then setting the RC by going parallel to the bar. The shape of the line you were running was kind of an L shape. So she knew to turn the new direction, but didn’t always know you wanted the bar too, especially if you were closer to the previous jump.
You can get the Rc more consistently and not be left as far behind if you don’t wait for her to pass you, to set the RC line. Before you even pass the wing of the jump before the RC jump, you can be running towards the center of the bar of the Rc jump. She is very speedy and will pass you – and the info from running the line to the center of the bar will tell her to jump the bar and turn the new direction. And the bonus is that you won’t be as far behind her 🙂
>rely heavily on verbals.>
Your verbals are strong!! You can test your running line and connection by playing this game without verbals… that will tell you if your physical cues are telling her the line too.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>He specifically discussed the exact challenges you’ve been helping us master in he first 2 sets of content in this CAMP.>
This makes me smile! I love to obsess to try to be prepared for the next big thing.
(Side note – that footing is slippery, so you might want to spray his feet the next time he works there and he probably needs a chiropractor adjustment for his pelvis… lots of rotating and stride shortening. You can see it up close at 1:21-1:22).
I also predict that the discriminations and stuff in the handler path is going to veer into the “STUPID” level of challenge before coming back to a more balanced challenge. By stupid, I mean stuff like having to veer around obstacles on the line to find a weave entry, and all sorts of stuff littering the handler’s path. I am starting to see both of those on European courses and here in the US in UKI courses.
>often where you can’t (or don’t want to be) right there to help a ton and verbals get really important. >
Yes – verbals become key in those discriminations! I loved seeing his weave entries in yesterday’s video 🙂
And in this video too – at one point the crowd reacted with delight too! So fun!This video was filed with really great moments on very challenging courses! WELL DONE!!!
Speaking of trends: another thing I am seeing on the push wraps is that yes, we need to be able to run through them without decel or having to connect to the landing side or stick around… but they are pretty wide turns when people do that (he was a little wide like at :27). So – cue the circle wrap with 2 hands (brake arm) before you run away, so you get both the independence and the great turn.
One other thing to add that is a trend coming over from Europe: more use of outside arm to set the line so you don’t have to run to it. For example, at :33, he is getting a push on a backside then going to a tunnel while you run like mad to your next position. He was wide there – an outside arm as he is approaching the backside will cue the ‘get out’ to the tunnel and get a really nice turn.
You can also add the obstacle name to some of your bigger lines and GO lines, when a tunnel discrimination is involved. There was a spot on this video where you wanted the long jump but there was a tunnel right near it, and the only verbal was Go Go Go. He veered towards the tunnel then grumbled at you: Go Where, human? So you can say “Go Jump” to help him out. And you can go to a ‘push’ verbal sooner, rather than his name: at 3:20 he got late info and almost took an off course tunnel
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Sounds like it was a great weekend, and I am really glad he was feeling good!!
Question: what type of footing was it? Maybe it was a footing that was easier on his body?
>I’m saying his name at times when I should be using an obstacle command, often repeating it two or three times. I had no idea I was doing it and when I quit, fewer bars came down. I’m also repeating commands which causes him to think he’s wrong / try to process at the same time he’s jumping. >
Yes, all good feedback. So in a nutshell: clarity of verbals! If you are still saying the previous cue over the bar, you are either really late or causing him to second guess. And calling his name can be effective but if it is over the bar he is supposed to be turning on, it was either late or unclear when an obstacle cue would be more effective.
>And yesterday, the best nugget was discovering he’s taking off early on wingless jumps.>
Interesting! I don’t recall seeing him do anything with wingless jumps, so you can add more in class and at home too! Wingless jumps do often fade into the background in terms of being a clear visual.
>For the wingless issue, I’m going to setup jump grids with wingless, especially for the last/farthest jump. I also thought about adding a second bar at first to draw his attention to the bar. Any other ideas?>
You can put a jump bump or stride regulator below the bar of the wingless jump. And also add more wingless jumps in training – but fade out the 2nd bar or stride regulator as quickly as possible, so it does not become the cue for the takeoff spot (because most/all wingless jumps will not have a 2nd bar). I think exposing him to them more in general will help a lot too. Lack of experience might be a big piece of the puzzle.
>After watching the video from this weekend and how happy and relaxed he is running 12″ I’m debating just leaving him at that height.>
I am personally a big fan of allowing dogs to make a big career jumping lower than their shoulders. Those BCs in 16” are jumping up to 2 inches below their shoulder height. Jumping lower can bring him a longer career, and there are just as many high level competitive options out there for him at 12” (unless you want to run him in Europe, then he would have to jump 16”).
I run my Hot Sauce at 12” competitively – she measures 15.75” but as a young dog, had a patella surgically repaired. So rather than risk any issues, she has spent her whole career at 12” and it has been fast & fun, including a national finals appearance. She just turned 7 years old and is running 2 sports better than ever.
(Plus the 12” division is SUPER fun and also plenty competitive :))
Tracy
Hi!
>My first thought looking at the Classic SS map was that it was above Lift’s pay grade. >
Yes, Nic is known for Speedstakes that are a bit more like Masters Series without weaves LOL Lift did well!
Looking at the videos:
Kaladin actually did well with the dropped toy – he was driving to it pretty well and you were making a show of tossing it with as much movement as possible. He was happy when you came back and threw it too! The only time was seemed to think it was stooooopid was on the one jump reps especially on the circle wraps. Ok, that’s fine 🙂 you can stick to doing these in bigger sequences 🙂 and also for the circle wraps, you can throw a giant piece of white cheese or something.
He was relatively unconvinced about the circle wraps with all the countermotion, so raising the value of the reward into something delish to throw will really help.
He was excellent with the slices, so you can add challenge by running through them even faster, and with even less connection (yes, I said LESS connection 🤣😂) when you see him committing to going to the backside.
Lift did really well too! I am very happy with how well she was going to the backside, considering her relatively lack of experience! You were able to get her to commit to going to the backside from pretty far across the bar – 1:00 was a great example of that, she was flying! Since she did so well, you can add more motion and less connection for her too, ramping it up even more from where you left it at 2:35. Yay!
She was also pretty happy to do the circle wraps! I think you found the threshold of where she has questions – she had a question about the big countermotion at 1:55 (chase da momma or chase da cookie). And she pushed off at 2:08 – I think a more experienced dog would have gotten that. So dial back your speed a tiny bit from there for a few reps on the next session, then work it back up and see if you can get her to chase the toy and commit even as you are running through.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
Thank you for putting the walk through in!!!Two things I noticed in the walk through that cropped up in the run:
– It looked/sounded like you were saying the verbals late, when she was already arriving at the line where she would need to execute the behavior. That means she would not hear them in time for the real run, which could lead to questions.
– you can give her more obvious threadle cues in the opening at 3, as well as at 6-7 and 10-11. What I mean by that is keep moving to the jump but swing your threadle arm (dog side arm) way back to open up your shoulders. That is what cues the in-and-out on the threadle line. You were rotated feet and closing your shoulder, which could send her past the threadle jump.
Looking at the runs:
Full run –
You can trust and threadle 1-2-3 more with that arm back and moving to 3. You helped a little more than she needed on the first run (but she got it). on the runs where she didn’t get 3 (1:42 and 3:10), the threadle arm was not back and you closed your shoulders forward, which cued her to go past the 3 jump.She had a little trouble finding 5 when you layered – it was because you were quiet when she entered the tunnel and the GO verbal happened after she exited (first run and 1;54 for example). That caused her to exit curling into you, and then the “go” verbal applied to the jump she was looking at. You can start that go verbal when she is still 5 or 6 feet away from entering the #4 tunnel, and keep it going til she locks onto 5. You can also use bigger/more direct connection to her eyes and even an outside arm to get 5 when you layer.
Taking out the layering at 2:15 and 3:21 and converging into 5 totally helped too but made it a little harder to get the next line.
The 5-6-7 slice then FC looked good in isolation!
In flow: as you threadle 6-7, use a big arm back and slight rotation at the waist, rather than pull away from the 7 jump (2:20 and 2:30). Pulling away from the 7 jump then trying to send her back to it delays the info, so she either a past it or got it at the very last minute. You can start the threadle info (arm back and verbal, plus line of motion to 7) as she is lifting for 6, and keep moving towards 7. Keep the threadle arm back until you see her turn and look at 7.The first BC after 6 put her on a line to the backside (3:25) then into the off course tunnel. You had much better position there at 3:45, nice adjustment! You can do a spin on the exit of the wrap rather than a full post turn to show her the best line there.
Warming up on the 10-11-12 section:
>Tried to go right after 11 but with Roux I couldn’t call her off the tunnel.>
Slicing right is definitely the better line: a spin with a delayed BC (rather than a post turn) might get that line more smoothly, plus calling her name. Think of it as doing a full FC as you are moving to 12 then as she exits and ignores the tunnel, do a BC.
Wrapping left there gets the tunnel out of the picture but the line as not as good as slicing to the right – it almost sent her to the backside of 13 at 2:43 and 3:59.
14-end looked really good, and had some of your best connection on course! Adding GO as the verbal for last tunnel to last jump worked best! Add it sooner, so she can hear it before she enters the tunnel.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
> Thanks for indulging me.>
It was fun! Keep it coming!
>I came to the same conclusion about running the last two snooker runs on Sunday (today) as if there were numbers in the Snooker opening. She cued the advanced snooker run, and the masters run right afterwards!>
SUPER!!! I think the dogs are wondering what happened to their normally aggressive and connected handler when we handle differently in the games classes 🙂 So making it into a course is great!
Tracy
Hi! So much good stuff here!!!! He is running great 🙂
Nice job finding the weaves at :18 & :50 & 3:44! That is a hard discrimination!
> I do feel like he’s super good at them when I can successfully set that line to the backside and he’s got nice commitment and independence on them when that goes well.>
Agree! Which is why if something goes wrong, you will want to carry on to the next obstacle and reward. Stopping and withholding reward had a bit of fallout here, making him tentative in a hard spot when he was reading the cues correctly. I know people will tell you not to reward… but if the dog is correct and the handling is incorrect, the dog should get a reward either in the moment or continuing up the next line.
>I think I was trying too hard to copy your arm style to see if that would help him get more clarity but not doing it “right” and making it worse. We had moved to a single low inside arm a while ago that works well most of the time. It’s only when the line isn’t set that I feel that doesn’t give him what he needs.>
You can use the single arm, that works great too – but you would still need to set the line the same way. Some of the TWs here had a natural set of the line based on where you were coming from, so didn’t even need a decel! But bear in mind that the harder TWs need a line set and very often, they need decel too so you can get the wrap.
>P.S. we did lots of push wraps too but the threadle wraps are what gives me anxiety so I’d really like to focus on them.>
Your push wraps are looking pretty fabulous!! And there are courses nowadays where the threadle wrap is the only option, so it is good to focus on them.
Looking at the video:
I grabbed some screenshots of good line sets into the TW versus moments where you did not set the line:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18IQWosQsQ3hLK2uREh8SpSvAsiDRgPbadMxi7gYn5SA/edit?usp=sharing
:26 versus :37, for example – at :26 you were facing the front of the TW jump when he landed from the previous jump. At :37 you turned to face the parallel path line to the TW and he got it there.
At 1:09 – there was an intuitive line to the correct side of the jump, plus you decelerated and faced him before setting the turn.
In the same spot at 1:25 and a bunch of reps after it – your feet faced the the slice line, no decel, looked like a threadle slice (reward the dog, he is correct!)
1:34 had foot rotation and motion towards the slice line (no set of the TW wrap lin and no dece)l so he barked at you but read a threadle slice – the arm movement/foot rotation to cue the wrap happened as he was taking off so it was too late to respond too
1:45 – you were rotated but moving backwards into the threadle slice cue 🙂Then pressure was added (instructor standing there) plus lack of reward on the previous reps despite him reading the info correctly, and he got tentative there. He got the TWs because it was the only option thanks to large dude standing there, but I don’t think it helped sort out the reason why he was slicing on the previous reps 🙂
Good line set at 2:04 for the TW! It is subtle and timely, so he reads it perfectly. He got the hard spot in flow at 2:17 thanks for decel and more timely rotation towards him. That does seems to help him get it but it puts you facing the wrong way for the next line, so it is more ideal to turn away from the jump (and towards the next line) to set it rather than towards him and away from the next line.
At the end, getting the TW off the dog walk: the cues did look slice like!
3:14 – motion is cueing the slice
3:26 was a little better but still had too much motion and not enough setting of the line
3:35 had rotation towards him and decel but he wrapped after landing – it is almost like a lap turn when turning towards him. So to get the TW off the RDW, the timing would need to be no later than top of the down ramp and also have you turning more to where the instructor is standing. On that angle, it is almost like rotating to sit in a chair (the TW wing is the chair and you rotate to pull your back to it while he turns away to it).Really nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! Sounds like a fun trip and congrats on winning it with Kaladin!
Lift was a really good girl – that was a BIG course with things that might have been new to her! And she walked into a giant ring with all sorts of distractions… but she was totally confident and engaged. LOVE IT!! And yay for the tug toy at the practice jump!
2 things that caused a bit of leaping up:
disconnection (this is normal, dogs gt mad when we disconnect) but also – she had a big mad when you praised her 🙂 Not enough info in praise, and she already knows she is awesome 🙂It took a bit to get you re-connected, but then the ending was lovely! Remember to keep your arms down so she can see full connection.
>They ended up with 490 runs Fri & Sat & 540 on Sun (before some scratches as people gave up and left). >
Yikes. They might want to consider making it a 2 ring trial.
>Pentathlon Gamblers (152 dogs) on Sunday took more than 4hrs because of scoring issues where they were trying to do math and had multiple people hand scoring and comparing numbers while the dogs were running so they kept taking pauses to work out discrepanices – all this because they wanted to save paper and wanted to score directly into the computer. >
Oh dear. That sounds exhausting LOL
> The secretary switched up the heights for each class but never swapped the groups so Kaladin was always in Group B that ran 2nd. And somehow with all the confusion over a different height order in each run, he was either the 1rst height or at the very end for every class. (usually the first for the first class and then the last for the next few so we had super-long days. Thank goodness he actually won the Pentathlon Finals on Sunday night by a Sheltie nose. They ran that small to tall so we managed to leave (with our loot) at 7:30PM while they were still running the large dogs.>
Sounds like they have some learning to do about trial management for this type of event! They will figure it out and the events will keep getting better and better 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Keep me posted on how it goes – using the organization exercises is probably going to be the most effective for him, and it is easy to do in the a/c 🙂T
Let me know if the comments came through! I think your analysis was really good. Overall, treating gamblers more like a course and running with more intent will smooth out the question spots 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
This went really well!>I was trying very hard to stay connected after the turns, as well as going into the turns>
Totally agree – your connection was really strong!
Your rotation into countermotion got earlier and earlier. On the first run, you were beginning to rotate as he was passing you at :04 and :08 – that looked great and his commitment was lovely! These were your earliest rotations along with 1:01, so keep being as early and you can try to be even earlier!
The 2nd run was not quite as early – if you add in decel before he gets to you, you will be able to turn sooner. And another small delay came in the rotation when you were switching the toy from hand to hand – thta was happening when you should have been rotating 🙂 So you can either have it in your pocket, or leave it in one hand. There is no precision reward needed on this game, so having it in your pocket is perfectly fine 🙂
> He did shoot off into the nearby tunnel when we were doing the circle to left.>
Actually… he was correct 🙂 You had a really nice early countermotion at 1:01 and the line of approach to the wing before the tunnel set him directly on the line to the tunnel. Then as he went around that wing at 1:04, you faced the line to the tunnel for a moment so off he went. Good boy! He was on a similar line at 1:15 (directly to the tunnel) so you would need to move the tunnel about 10 feet off the line there to be sure he doesn’t go in when he thinks it is on his line.
Looking at the 2nd video:
All of your front cross wraps on the wing looked fantastic: super nice rotation timing, great connection, and great turns from him! Yay!>I didn’t always get my timing right for the spin.>
Yes, you can be sooner on the spins – if you start them sooner, you will be finished sooner in order to make a big connection. As soon as he is passing you, start the rotation. Then just before he arrives at the wing, disconnect and begin the blind.
At :15 you were a little late then looked forward as he exited the wing, so he guessed on the line. He didn’t get rewarded there, but it was a good example of why we should always reward off courses: the last thing he saw in terms of connection as he exited the wing was on your left side, so that is where he went when he didn’t have the new connection in time to get to your right side. So even if you didn’t see it in the moment, reward his effort because the video will almost always show that he was correct.
You had earlier timing and much better connection at :25 – he was being a little careful there too, so we don’t want him to slow down as you sort out the timing & connection.
Here are the screenshots of those moments:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1k_BMMKbP-1khjxfsVqiui-3mbI9Ps6poS8q7ZtWGl6M/edit?usp=sharingYou got them on the other side because your timing was earlier for sure! Remember to reach back to him with your eyes and arm pointing back to him on that side too.
Great job here!
Tracy
