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Hi! This is going well – this setup totally helps sort out the different cues.
First video:
the go line looked great! The wrap looked good too! You don’t need to use the ‘go’ verbal on the wrap line, you can just use your wrap verbal as he is landed from the previous jump and as you start the decel into the wrap.2nd video:
>>Venture started jumping the blue wing. For today I switched the blue wing for one of the big PVC wings but wonder what if anything I need to do about this.>>
I think what he was doing when he was jumping through the wing fabric was splitting the difference between the front and back side of the jump. CLEVER!! LOL!! We can clarify things for him:
For the backside cues, try not to use your arm much at all 🙂 Keep it pointing at his nose and use your big connection and forward motion to where the wing and bar meet to cue the backside (plus the verbal). If you stop short and point ahead of him, your hand and verbal say backside… but your shoulders and feet are saying front side. Since the cues were a little conflicting, he was jumping through the wing (more on the cues below).With clearer cues, he will not go through the wing 🙂
>>Third short video, we really struggled with rear cross and back side with dog on left. How should it look to Venture and what tells him the difference between these two? Only the verbal or should I be showing something clearly different?>>
On the first 2 backside sends, you can see the difference in the cues:
At :06 you pointed forward ahead and stopped moving forward, so he was not sure if he should keep going. At 1:00, you had clearer connection for longer (your arm moved forward *with* him rather than *ahead* of him) and you moved forward for longer…. and he got it! Yay!So the more you keep moving forward with connection to where the wing and bar meet and your arm back to him, the easier it will be to commit him to the backside.
For the rear crosses, the handler line is different – be connected and don’t use your arm much like with the backsides, and your line of motion is towards the center of the bar. That will looked pretty different from the backside line (and yes, the difference verbals too :))
I think the backside will feel better if you are not as far ahead of him – at 1:37 here he got it but you were ahead, even with your feet pointing to the backside. So for the backsides – totally get ahead of him to show him the cues from ahead. For the rear crosses, you can set the line from the previous jump then accelerate up the line to the center of the bar.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
>>First I tried to do the sit exercise- lesson learned dont try and get a hard listening exercise that involves stationary with a mad border pap…. I quickly decided it wasnt happening – but thought you might enjoy her expressing herself…>>
Oh yes, she had BIG OPINIONS here! LOL!! What if you used a plank or sit platform for this? That might be clearer to her and less rage-inducing.
On the 2nd video:
Her stay is definitely improving!!
I think using toys for stays is GREAT and I train stays with toys all the time! SO I won’t tell you off LOL! But also be careful to NOT swing the toy around, that was too hard for her to hold the stay. One thing I do with stays when using a toy is I throw the toy back to the dog (rather than release forward) as that helps solidify the stay. You did some of that, but use a different marker (I use “catch” because “get it” means to come forward, so that might have been part of her confusion).
She seemed to like playing with the thrown toy for a moment then wanted to come play with you – that is fine! You can throw the toy as the reward and then call her to you to tug. A double reward!>> so big note to self need to do this more. Definitely the higher arousal (teeth were chattering and eyes spinning) >>
Yes, definitely keep playing like this, to help her with the arousal in front of a jump when the toy is present.
On the wobble board video – I think the toy was definitely something she liked as part of this! Because the wobble board is something that concerns her, you can stuff a bunch of towels under it so it doesn’t move much at all. She was putting a front foot on it, but really didn’t want to put more than a foot on it. So you can ‘split’ the behavior by packing pillows and towels around the wobble board so it barely moves. Then as she gets more and more comfortable, you can start to remove the things supporting the wobble board so it moves a little more.
>>She did her usual trick of lying down bewside it and commenting- she does this with a number of things>>
I don’t know about why she does it in other situations, but she was doing it here because she wanted the reward but did not feel comfy getting on the moving board. So taking out a lot of the movement for now will get her happier to offer behavior on it.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThat is crazy!!!!!! We are seeing 100 degrees in the forecast here, which is just nuts for this part of the world. No worries, we can stretch out class to give everyone more time without baking!!!
Stay cool 🙂
TracyHi! Nice work on these!!
On the video:
>>Did you mean jump 5 instead of 4? I didn’t mean to use push on 4 so maybe I was early. I was treating jump 5 as a backside. Is that not correct because of the angle of their approach?>>
I think you were just early, and perhaps using push as a way to get her out on the line? That was for the previous sequence/video. On this video, it sounds like you said “push” for jump 4 at :30 and 1:03 but 4 here is a front side (she doesn’t need to go to the other side of it). Jump 6 is a backside, so push is good for when you send her to the other side like at 1:06.
Blind to slice: looking great. YAY! You can do the blind a little closer to the entry wing of the threadle slice. And she reads it so well (and your line of motion was great) so you didn’t need to help her with the big arm cues.
There was a bar down at 1:01 – you were walking and quiet so she was not sure how to attack the line there You were running there on the other reps and she had no questions.
At 1:05 you handled the 6 jump as a push to the backside:
>>Are you saying that my feet should be facing straight toward jump 8 (jump after backside) and not toward the backside jump?>>
Correct – always try to have your feet moving to the next line. Think of your upper body as showing the dog the present, what you want her to do right now. And your lower body (feet, motion) showing her the future in terms of where you are going next.
She found the line nicely at 1:05 and 1:29. Then you rotated to bring her over the bar which ended up having you get caught behind the jump and not able to get the blind there.
At 1:44., you weer much further across the bar (yay!!) and rotated your feet to her less (double yay!) so you did get the blind. The only thing to add there is to keep moving, so you are basically going to end up on the takeoff side of the jump as she is taking off
You did the circle wrap at 2:06 –
2 things can help smooth this out:– as you are heading to the jump, go to where the wing and bar meet (you will be on the landing side) so that she can see the wing. Then stay there til she is passing you, then move forward. At 2:06 you were blocking her line and tghen turned to the bar, which looked like a slice line for a moment. She slowed down and sorted it out, but we don’t want her to slow down 🙂
– a different verbal 🙂 The circle is a very different behavior than the slice so using a different verbal will help her a lot too.
>> My one question is, when you do the blind before the backside (7), how are you differentiating between the slice (going back to jump 3) and the wrap (going to the tunnel). When I did the blind decently, I think she gets a nice slice to the jump, but the wrap went a bit wonky.>>
It is all about the direction your feet are facing 🙂
The last rep was the blind to the threadle wrap. She read it as a slice because you turned your feet to the bar (same as when you wanted the slice). To get the threadle wraps, keep your feet facing the tunnel the whole time – and use your arms to turn her away to the wrap. You will probably want to do this walking at first so she can read the info, and you will want to be adding decel anyway for this move even when you are running a full sequence with it.
Great job here! Have fun at ASCA this weekend!!
Tracy
Hi! Great seeing you today! Katniss is looking awesome!
The brake arms sequences went really well!
One general suggestion: When you want her to exit a tunnel straight and stay on a line, you can use her ‘go’ verbal before she enters the tunnel – if you are quiet, she defaults to turning to you, which might make it harder to get the next line.
The brake arms at :10 and :25 looked great for the wrap! Nice use of the arms and decel got great connection so she easily got the turn. You had a bar down at :20 on the 180 – that looked to be because you didn’t decelerate, so even with the brake arms she did did not get enough turn info as compared to the other turns.
2nd sequence, with the backside wrap at 2:
>> On sequence 2 with the circle wrap at 2, I was showing her the line to the other jump. She corrected to the backside, but it took her a while to know where we were going. How should I have shown that differently from the other sequences where it WAS the other jump?>>
Yes, you were blocking her view of the wing at :36 so she almost went from 1 to 3 so it looks like the same line when ou did want her to go to that jump on the previous sequences and at :55. To make it look different, you can change your positional cue: move to where the wing and bar meet, so she sees the entire wing to go around for the backside. And if you run out of space to move forward? Hang out in that spot where the wing and bar meet until she is past you. That will make it clearer for her.
I love how she is focusing forward on her jump at :50 at the beginning of the last sequence!!!! And the brake arms for the tunnel exit turn looked GREAT – nice timing and super turn!
>>. On the last rep, I realized I threw it really close, so I took a couple of steps back (not really on purpose, but my brain was telling me I was too close to the toy). Does that count? 😂>>
We will count it because it was so funny LOL!!!!
On the Hot Topics video: I agree, this went really well!!!
>>I did a terrible job throwing the reward away from me. I’m going to get it right at some point, lol, I swear!!>>
Plan for it, or if you are training with others, make other people hold you accountable (or have them throw it :))
She did well with the warm up circle – remember not to get too far ahead of her, as that makes it harder for her to process the jumping mechanics.
When adding the layering, setting the line with parallel line motion will make a big difference:
At :17 – that was good line setting so she got the layer.
At :24 – you were already pulling away when she exited the wrap on 1 so she came off the line (correctly). The other reps after that were better when you were setting the line before moving away.On the German turn attempts: that parallel line of motion is important to set up germans too! You can go closer to 3 and 4 (the 2 jumps after the tunnel) so you can handle the 2 jumps before the German with more lateral distance and running on a parallel line to her.
You got a little too close to the jump before the german and had too much decel at 1:04, which cued collection and brought her off the line. She took the front of the jump ther (good girl!)
Big difference at 1:26 where there was no decel, and you supported the line better with parallel line motion so she found the backside with no questions. Super!Blind to threadle:
You were a bit too early starting the BC at 1:43. Nice adjustment on the next 2 reps to start a little later, so she committed better – and that set up the threadle really nicely there. Looked great!On the threadle wrap reps, one adjustment to make is to keep your feet forward (facing the tunnel) the whole time – don’t turn your feet ot the bar at all. Feet-to-the-bar indicates a slice (like at 2:21).
You did get her to wrap but it looked like a slice for a long while (2:55) and she was wide there. So the feet facing the next line (rather than the bar of the threadle jump) will help her know the difference. Plus, the positional advantage of handling with the threadle wrap comes from your feet alreayd facing the next line so you can leave for it sooner.
Push to wrap – this is where you can also go to where the wing and bar meet (3:13) like you mentioned in the live class sequence, so you dont block the line to the backside.
The threadle slice the other direction (3:36 and 3:55) looked great! That is the definite winner for the line on that side.
On the german turn that direction at the very end – you got a little too close to the jump after the tunnel, so you were a little in her way when she landed (she barked at you). To get a better German there, you can send more to the jump after the tunnel by staying closer to the middle of the tunnel. Then running a parallel line to her should get you easily past the exit wing as she is committing to the backside.
Great job here!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
The plank game went really well. The catos were great for getting it higher. She seemed very comfortable on it – back and forth, different angles, on and off the board in the middle, turning around, etc. Turning to her right away from you was hard – it is not that important on the plank at this point, but definitely something to see if she can do easily on the flat (for handling).
I think the next stages of this would be about getting the RDW foundations going (I am assuming you are doing a RDW 🙂 ) Then you can attach it to the plank. And separately, teeter foundations too! You can rest one end of the board on the 16” table and the other end on the ground, so she can run up it.
She totally remembered the lazy game! And was moving pretty quickly through it, which is great because most dogs stroll when the handlers are being ‘lazy’ like this LOL!!
Adding the tunnel was great – she seemed to enjoy it and picked up more speed! And she was doing what we want: Moving fast and independently on the line without a ton of sprinting from the handler. YAY!!!
Adding the sends: this went super well too! She barely needed a cue on the sends – she seemed to be recognizing the line and driving to it. The distances were not a problem for her.
Since this went so well, you can spread this out more (go to 15 feet or 18 feet, getting closer to full size competition distances!) and add in the handling games. That will mean more running for you and I think she is ready for that…and that she will really like it too!!! Yay!
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
This sequence had some good spots to play with for him!!! For the handling choices, at this point I mainly look at it from the viewpoint of getting the fastest possible lines with no questions from Kaladin. Pretty fun to be at that level of obsessing!!!
He came off the line at :08 (missed 4). It looks like you started to look which turned your shoulders, and I don’t think there was a verbal. You were more connected for sure at :40, a little closer, and sounds like you said jump. He got it easily there with a lot of speed. I am not sure he needs a lot of connection in those spots anymore (maybe through the clutter boxes he does?) but definitely the verbal will help support the line. Being quiet with the softer connection is part of what pulled him off the line.
Looking at the send to 5 before the Serp-blind:
He had a little extra yardage at :41 (you were a little late with the send). I am not sure, though, if getting a collection stride with a brake arm, for example, will be faster. So you can be more lateral as he exits 4 (without layering, which you noted as a little slower and also looked like he was not driving as hard) and sending sooner – that way you can use your verbals and run through the serp sooner. It might chop off a tenth of a second…. But at this level, we will take that tenth of a second as that can end up being a winning margin!The other place to talk to him more is after the blind on 6 and heading to 7 – running around the tree worked great 🙂 but you were quiet on the first run so he looked up at you a tiny bit. That is a spot where keeping him looking ahead can take off another tenth or two.
Leading out on the other side of the tunnel: that was harder than expected, but I am guessing he doesn’t have a ton of experience with layered openings (I also say “dude!” When the dog does something surprising LOL!). He got it when you were further ahead of him, but we still want to build the skill of taking the jump with you parallel or behind him. You can move the jump closer to the tunnel to decrease the distance challenge for now. And you can place a toy or bowl on the landing side of the tunnel – he was looking at it but not taking it when released, so having the reward as part of the focal point can help jumpstart the behavior too.
Have fun in Winnipeg!!! Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Levy did well with sequence 2 Part 2 when I used the Front crosses at both 3 and 4 and was on the landing side of 7 to 8. >>
Awesome!!!!
>>Trying to serp to the blind did not go well. by the time I did the serp both Watson and Levy were in front of me so no chance for the BC and of course they went to the tunnel when I tried to flick them to the jump. >>
Were they correctly coming to the jump, but you were not able to get blind? That might mean you were not far enough across the jump – one thing you can do is send them away on the line more so you can layer the jump as you run a parallel line to them, then you can be closer to the exit wing as they are on their way to the backside.
And there is countermotion too: as they are coming to the backside, you are looking at the landing side but also moving forward towards the tunnel.
>> it worked fine for Levy but not for Watson. It was timing just didn’t give Watson enough connection and didn’t complete the BC in a timely manner. >>
Was he going off course to the jump straight ahead? If so, yes, it might have been timing but also, it might have been that he didn’t see enough connection. He is so small so you might have to connect downwards more and keep your arms back more.
>>This is a note to me that Levy needs more distance work and a stronger get out. He found taking the jump with the tunnel in between us difficult. Your suggestion for Watson (send from other tunnel entrance) worked like a dream. He nailed it the first time easily and I was way ahead.>>
Yay! I am glad it worked! You can totally build up the distance gradually. The key will be lots and lots of thrown rewards. That will really help commitment, because the toy appears out ahead on the line as you are running and they don’t have to look back to you 🙂
Thank you for the update! It sounds like the boys are doing really well!!!
Tracy
Hi! This went really well!!
>> My yard set up looks small and tight but I did measure it>>
It looked good to me 🙂 It is a really tight setup, very deliberately to put all sorts of stuff in your way LOL!!
She did great with the layering! A couple of ideas for you:
– she wants to look at you a bit on the tunnel exits, so you can tell her how to exit the tunnel when you want a straight line/extension exit – for her, saying “GO!” before she enters will help. If you are quiet when she enters, she looks at you (:15) and that is useful if you need a tight turn (which we don’t need here).
>>She did well on the backside wrap when I was not really supporting it very well>>
Yes! On the first run at :08, you were a little late telling her about it and did not turn to it as soon as she needed. But on the second run at :19, you were earlier with the info and you turned to it, so she nailed it. Yay!
For the threadle stuff:
yes, you can do one jump threadle work but for this sequence, you don’t need this type of threadle 🙂 On the very last rep, prepping for the big sequence:
the threadle is on the other side – do a BC or FC so she lands from the first jump there on your left, then do a threadle to get the other side of 6 (you will be in the ‘box’ of jumps and on the same side as the tunnel.Great job here! Stay cool!
Tracy
Hi!
>> Is your opinion to use wrap cues for rears or should I use a “switch” command? >>
It depends LOL!!! It depends on exactly what each verbal means:
About switch:
The way most people use switch to mean ‘turn away for a rear cross’ – that is not specific enough in terms of how much of a turn we want so it can get messy and unclear for the dog and they end up ignoring it (and relying on physical cues). I use ‘switch’ in one situation only: when I am turning the dog away and then sending her on a big layering line. So I will say “switch” then the obstacle name of the next obstacle (like ‘switch tunnel’) and it means ‘turn away, get on the line, and ignore my handling position until I cue something else’. It has been SUPER useful with all of the layering required lately!About directions like wraps, etc:
I use directionals on my rear crosses, because they indicate which direction to turn and exactly how much of a turn we want (like wrap-to-the-right, or soft-turn-to-the-left). So you if you have a wrap verbal for each side, and a soft turn verbal for each side, then I highly recommend directionals. And then I choose the directional verbal based on what the course requires (on this sequence, it would be a wrap).
If the wrap verbal always means turns towards you, then you either need to add a wrap-away and soft-turn-away, or add the more specific verbals about which direction the dog should turn. The dogs appreciate the clarity of the very specific verbals (and with a little practice, we humans totally *can* remember them LOL!)Looking at the video:
great job sorting out the RC cues! The trick is motion towards the center of the bar of the RC jump, and having her see that *before* she makes a takeoff decision.
On some of the reps, you didn’t show enough of that line to the center of the bar before she made a takeoff decision, making the info late, like at :05 and :24
On one of the reps, you pushed in too soon and your feet ended up looking like you wanted the backside, which pushed her off the jump (:35).
And on a bunch of reps, you were able to show the line to the center of the bar and got a lovely RC: :13, :44, :54.I think visuals are really important, so I grabbed screenshots of each of those moments so you can see what she was seeing. Here is the link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V8qdUtK1wU37fcnYBMDJPJ8k6VOYVsgz_MH3dpRva3M/edit?usp=sharing
On the rep at 1:08 – you were a little too far away and a little late on the info, but she did the RC… so she had probably figured out it was a RC session LOL!! She is definitely smart like that!
So definitely mix in cueing straight lines so she is still reading the info and not assuming it is a RC 🙂2nd setup: she found the jump really well! Super!!!! My only suggestion on this one is to keep moving rather than stand still and throw. We want her to learn the cue of having motion support the line and not dilute the decel in favor of chasing the toy 🙂 To protect your knee, you can be walking or slow jogging, as long as it is steady motion with no transition to decel. You can now adding getting closer to the ‘tunnel’ exit 🙂 and walking forward so she drives ahead of you to the jump. And you can also send to your ‘tunnel’ and get waaaaaay ahead, to see if she can find the jump from behind you.
Great job on these!
TracyGood morning! I hope the weather is cooling off a bit!
She did super well with finding the jump! You can also send to the tunnel from further away so you are ahead of her, past the jump (move the jump in closer so it is easier to get past it). Many young dogs struggle to find the jump after a tunnel when the handler is ahead!
For the motion override game: this was hard! There was steam coming out of her ears LOL! At the very end, you were marching in place – I think that is where you should start the next session. Just march in place and when that gets easy for her – go to shuffling along rather than walking. That way she can process the sit cue, specifically. She was processing that it was *something* about stopping, but she was not 100% sure if it was sit or stand or down.
You will see she starts to have lightbulb moments and then working up to running will be easier. Doing it on your left looked a little like heeling when you lifted your left arm and decelerated ever-so-slightly at :41, so resist temptation to do that LOL!!! Just keep your arms in the casual position so there are no additional cues besides the verbal.Great job here!
TracyGood morning! Really good session here, and the neighbor dog is indeed a big distraction! He was great about ignoring it!
>> I am limiting sessions to 5 minutes because by then we’re both super hot and brain dead.>>
Perfect – 5 minutes in the zillion degree temperatures can be a LOT!!!
>>Yes he’s jumping up at me but not in frustration. >>
Yes, it totally looked like he was excited about the reward and not frustrated 🙂
Looking at the different handling cues:
He did well with the go lines, and these were the only spots you needed a bit more connection 🙂 So add more eye contact as you run forward – he had a question on the first one (a little curling in towards you) and the bar down at 4:06 on the first jump, mainly because he couldn’t quite see enough connection.
You can also mix in go lines more often, to kind of ‘cleanse the palate’ and keep him looking forward 🙂
The wraps looked really good here, and I think the wrap reps had the best connection and timing too! He is nice and tight on the turn. Yay!
The rear crosses are going well too. Be sure to complete the side change – at the very end (last rep) you stopped without finishing the cross, so he was not sure if he should complete the rear of if he should turn back to you in the original direction.
>> Am I correct to use the wrap verbal on the rear cross here? >>
Yes, in this context. Other rear crosses can have left/right turn verbals or even ‘jump’ verbals if there is a lot of extension on the exit.
>> I was shocked how fast he remembered the back command for the backside.>>
Yes! You were not quite that clear at 1:52 (not far enough ahead for a baby dog so he didn’t see the connection) but much better at 3:17!!! The more you can connect on backside cues and the less arm pointing forward you use, the better he will read the cues (I know, totally counterintuitive on sends, but works GREAT!)
>> So we didn’t do the last tunnel plus back side.>>
No worries, it was 80 million degrees out! You can start with tunnel next time. And when you switch sides, start with the tunnel too – that will geta lot of motion going, especially if dog-on-left is the harder side.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning! This went really well!
I agree that he had a bit of a side preference here:
All of the reps where he was on your right (turning to his left) looked great. Then at first he was not as sure when he was on your left (turning to his right), Pointing at the jumps is not helpful – the adjustment that helped him was when you strolled a little closer to the jump at :42 – :45. That got the big lightbulb moment for him!Then you were able to add more motion, verbals, etc. NICE!!!
He is ready for you to add the tunnel and more distance and more running! If the weather remains ridiculously hot, you don’t need to drag the tunnel out – you can replace it with a cone for him to go around. You can also add more distance between the jumps – try to get up to 18 feet between the center of each bar, he seems ready for that too!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning! Really good session here!!!
>>3. Using my marker for throwing the toy away from me. I missed it on the 1st & 2nd ones and then realized I did and was better after that. Though I still said ‘yay’ before chase it on one of them. Sigh. Hard habit to break!>>
I feel this pain!!! It is definitely a hard habit to break (what is that old song by Chicago?) But it is worth it when they are young.
The hardest part is to say the marker *then* move the reward. The dogs figure us out, thankfully, and he was definitely looking forward more here! YAY!!!
>> I probably need to throw the toy sooner.>>
You can mark sooner and have the toy in the air right after that, especially on the tunnel exits.
>>1. Not moving on my lead out. Not always perfect, but better (I think??)>>
Yes! Like at :33 and :51and 1:03, where you praised, released, he moved, then you moved. Click/treat for you both!
You can also do moving lead outs, where you are walking away and release while you are walking. The trick is that your motion and the release do not start simultaneously. Either you are in motion the whole time (like those running lead outs that are super useful) or you stop, release, then move.
If you stop then release and move simultaneously – that is when motion gets built into the reelase by accident.>>2. Keeping the toy in my hand. This led to a few amusing elevations by James that I think I edited out, but overall when he was running he was able to keep the springs in the box.>>
Yes, you took them out LOL!! You can use a toy that can scrunch into your hand better, this one was very visible so he might have come flying up to it when other cues were not as clear? On the reps here, you were pretty darned clear! Yay!
He is ready for you to move more – try this jogging and then build up to running! And add in the crosses. With the crosses, keep the big connection (and this is where a toy that can scrunch up into your hand will help a lot too).
Great job!!
Tracy
