Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
>. Can I raise the height of the bars? Both were locked in at 8″ this week.>
The first bar will always be low, it is just a stride regulator. The 2nd bar can go to 10″.
The pill bug games went well! One suggestion is to not have the toy dangling from your hand – based on it being highly visible and then when she arrives at it, you are delivering it to her. So it seems like she is thinking that the game is to go to the toy. This works fine for the outside circles, but it would be even better to get her doing them with connection and not a toy target. Targeting to the toy is what is made the inside circles so hard: she was coming straight in to the toy. So if the toy is out of the picture, you can use connection to get her to bend around the tunnels and it will be a lot easier. You can do the inside circles at a slow jog/fast walk to establish the turn, then eventually crank up the speed again 🙂 To reward, you can whip the toy out of a pocket or use a food reward in the moment, with tugging in between reps.
Nice work on the tunnel exits too! In the moments when you were super connected, she was perfect! Connection is definitely a big cue for the youngsters – so if something goes wrong, assume it was a connection question and use less arm to cue the obstacle and more eye contact as you run.
For example, she had a little zig zag exiting the tunnel straight at :05 and :26, looking at you first before going to the wing – try to be connected to her on the tunnel exit to get the line and not pointing forward. The connection turns your shoulders to the line you want.
>I think Ellie is starting to know her wrap verbals, but I really doubt she has any idea what left and right are. She and Mason both went wide on the right turn out of the tunnel, so I’m curious if there is something I’m doing to cue the drive forward out of the tunnel when I really want a right turn.>
That was a timing question from her on the reps at :37 and :47 and :57 and 1:07. The right verbal was late, happening either after she went into the tunnel or just as she was sticking her head into the tunnel, and your running motion was forward. So the last thing she saw/heard was forward motion which is why she exited straighter. On the left turn exits – the timing can also be earlier but your physical cues were already showing the turn before she entered, so she turned well! The ideal timing is that she sees/hears the cue when she is still a solid 6 feet away from entering the tunnel – you can put a line on the ground to give yourself a visual of when to cue the turn.
> The race track to the right took a few tries to work out the bugs, >
This was a connection question (if she jumps up at you, it is her way of saying ‘more connection please!’):
At :38 pm right turn race track – you were disconnected with a high arm and looking forward as she exited the wing, so she jumped up then was not sure which side of you to be on for the tunnel cue at :40 (you had turned to look forward and it did look like a BC cue, so she changed sides).Compare to :48 which was more connected to the wing so she got it really well! Then you broke the connection to the tunnel so she jumped up at :51.
The rep at :58 – 1:01 had great connection all the way through, so you got a great line there! And the last rep with the wraps was super connected so she read it perfectly.
It was fun to see Mason, he definitely remembers the skills and was great to give yo ua test dirve on the course 🙂 He basically did the same things Ellie did, which is good because it indicates where the handling can be clearer in terms of connection, or sooner to get the turns.
>I can’t decide which dog to work first. Having Ellie first avoids her tiring herself out from screaming in the house during Mason’s turn, but having Mason first gives me a chance to figure out my handling with a dog that isn’t learning things for the first time.>
Is there a place that Ellie can be, in the house or even in the car as long as she doesn’t bake, where she can be calm and not scream? That is a good skill to have (relaxing when it is not your turn to run agility). I think you can mix up who goes first, but finding a spot where she can chill while waiting is a good thing for sure!
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>She has a lot of value for the wraps, the tunnel not so much (oddly). I also think she might have been a bit reluctant to leave the toy/treats…much quicker to access reinforcement if you wrap? >
I agree with your assessment – the wrap probably has more value, it is easier than the tunnel, plus it is closer to accessing the reward. The tunnel is further from you and the reward PLUS she has to lose sight of you, so it makes sense that she would want to stick closer to you.
The wraps are looking fantastic so we can build up the tunnel send:
For now, after you say the tunnel verbal, take a step towards to the tunnel to help her go to it. And, more importantly… throw the reward to the exit of the tunnel. The rewards here for the wrap and the tunnel were close to you, which is part of why she wants to stick near you 🙂 So if the reward for the tunnel is thrown way past the tunnel exit, I am sure she will be very happy to leave you to race through it. It might take a moment to get the toy back 🙂 but you can trade for another toy. Changing the reward placement for the tunnel should get her driving away really nicely.
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
She did great here!
>I was really surprised that she didn’t jump on me.>
Does she sometimes jump up when you are running? Your connection was super clear here and you had good timing on most of the reps so she seemed to know where to go and had no trouble keeping her feet on the floor 🙂
I saw a tiny bit of jumping up potential when you were late in the earlier part of the session – at :53, for example, the blind was late so there was a little jumping up as she got to you. It might be a bit of frustration and a bit of her not decelerating because she was less sure where to be. Compare that to the blind at 1:02 – great timing and connection, she did not consider jumping up at all!
Later in the session you were a little late on two of the blinds (1:19, 1:39) but she was happy and relaxed, working at a very high rate of success, and didn’t consider jumping up. Yay!
At 1:10 you got pretty far ahead so she was not sure which side of the tunnel to find you on – she chose the other side based on your motion, and that was a good choice. You rewarded her (yay! Excellent reward, because it was a bit of a handler error there) and then adjusted your position to be more visible on the next reps, which went really well.
>Should I try to reward her coming into my side as straight as possible or does it not matter?>
You were getting your rewards in before she got to you, so she was coming to your side and not curling in front of you – that is great! She doesn’t have to be perfectly straight at your side but we don’t want her to be curling in front of you.
Since this went so well – yes to adding the toy for more excitement 🙂 And also yes she is ready for the double pill bug 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>Grids moving target add learned that the power of saying “D” which is Chata nickname when she’s running amuck has some effect on julee as she left to look for D who wasn’t actually there I just said the wrong dog name lol>
Ha! I am glad I am not the only one who uses the wrong dog name LOL!!
Set point is going well –
Nice job using your ‘between’ position to line her up for jump 1. And her stay is looking great with the toy moving on the ground. These things make the skill training so much easier!She is percolating good form on the step in to jump 1 here – since she has to load in from her rear, it took a couple of reps to really push off. On the first couple she was lifting from her from a bit but then at 1;45 and 2:35 she was definitely pushing more from her rear, producing better form. Yay! Revisit this in a few days to see how she is locking in the form, but overall this was a strong session that we can build on with future grid and challenges.
Wrap proofing: this is definitely a hard game! I think you made it a little harder because the angle of the wing is a little skewed here – you want the wing to be more on the side of the tunnel (near the tunnel bag, with you facing the wall that has the blue tunnel scrunched up on it, on the left side of the screen here) so when you are lining her up, you are both facing the wing and not facing directly to the tunnel. She will see the tunnel when she exits the wing but she won’t see it when you are lining her up. That will also make cueing the tunnel easier because it won’t be as far and also you can add a little handler motion to both skills. She had plenty of good reps here, but when adding the advanced levels you will find it easier to put the wing on more of the angle especially for cueing the wrap when she exits the tunnel.
Smiley face game:
>Mixed my words up first round. Ooops>
That is relatable 🙂 You might need a brief walk through to get the words going for each rep – so many words in agility LOL!!
This game went really well! She had a question about the wing on the first rep – you had really good connection on the tunnel exit but not enough decel at :05 and a little too much motion towards it, which pushed her past it. You had clear connection and decel going on the other reps and she did great! If she sees you ‘pushing’ in towards the wing as she exits the tunnel, she goes a little wider (responding to the pressure of the motion, like t 1:54) so you can decel and handle the wrap from wherever you are when she is exiting the tunnel. And you can add more distance between the tunnel and the wing for a little more challenge too!
Side note – I know I am a pain in the butt… but the sooner you can get her feet wrapped for working, the better! She is changing her striding (holding herself tight through the core to short stride rather than shifting into her rear) and slipping when coming around the wings, so we want to give her better grip so she can work good mechanics and not compensate for losing her balance.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! This went really well!
I think the 6 foot distance suits him really well. Hooray for such a great stay and forward focus on the treat! And the start position relative to jump 1 on the 2nd and 3rd reps here was spot on (the first rep and last rep might have been a little too close, but it is a game of inches :)) His form is looking good and he is quite a powerful young man!!!! So the next step, when you get back north 🙂 is to add the moving target to this. When he is happy with the moving target and maintains these lovely mechanics, we can start to change the height of bar 2 (and also add complexity in coming weeks too).
Great job here! Safe travels!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I wasn’t running with her. I sent her and called it in a stationary pose. >
It is possible that either her natural inclination is to exit tunnels straight for now (which is a good thing, the way course design is evolving!) or the verbals didn’t reach her ears early enough 🙂
>Yes, my motion kept her on the right path. >
Super! Since she is young, she might not have realized that turning on the exit of a tunnel was something that could happen 🙂 She is super smart though, so I bet she locks in that understanding pretty quickly.
>She is doing amazingly well, I think, for her age. At times I know she is working in arousal and have to simplify so I get her thinking again. >
I agree!! And it is normal that teenager dogs sometimes have arousal shifts that we have to help them out with 🙂
>I did add a third jump to the grid with one of them at 16″. She is powering over it just fine. >
Great! We add games with a 3rd jump to challenge both the mechanics and also ‘reading’ the distances. Those are good for her age because she can get a lot of education without anything that is too hard on her developing joints and muscles.
> We had a tough March with a terrible fear stage. She was terrified when I took her inside at the McKinney,TX venue. Several people told me that a lot of dogs are afraid in there. After seeing her reaction there, I didn’t dare take her anywhere near the rings at Nationals.>
Poor girl! There was probably some travel stress that played a role in it (even if she appears relaxed, her body is feeling the effects of stress hormones like cortisol) and it sounds like a hard venue!!
>> She seemed to spook with the recorded “go”. So, we slowed training down to a slug pace and just worked on tenacity and resilience for three weeks.>
The recorded voices as well as the buzzers and judge calling numbers in FSAT, gamblers, snooker can be HARD on dogs. You can get a recording of these things and play it quietly in the background of training sessions. The volume should be very low to start so it is barely audible. Then you can gradually increase the volume over a series of sessions, building up to her being able to completely ignore the sounds even when they are loud and nearby. Doing this gradually will make it easy!
>This week I presented agility equipment again and she was on fire for it. >
She really loves her agility! That is why we can help her ignore challenging sounds/noises by pairing them gradually with the fun of moving and doing obstacles 🙂
> I don’t see myself staying in front of her.>
I don’t think being able to run faster than her is an option… but stay ahead is a huge advantage. So we can prioritize obstacle independence so she sends to a line and stays on the line while you scoot over to wherever you want to be next. That will make it easier to stay ahead even on those big courses! And of course, we will make sure she understands and loves rear crosses too for when you get behind 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
I think this was a really strong session and yes, she was using her rear really well here (good head position too). And holding her stay really well to let you get out ahead and place the reward on the ground. So much good stuff!!
Lookin at all of the reps here: I think starting her from the sit position produced the best results. Rep 1 was my favorite – that seemed to be the sweet spot in terms of line up. Rep 2 was also really good – she was a little closer to jump 1 but did really well. The other sit rep was rep 5 – she was a little further back from jumping 1 and tapped her left front foot on the ground before takeoff. She might have been a little too far from the jump on that rep, or a bit of fatigue, or both.
The reps that started with a down were harder because pushing up from the ground puts her weight forward and there was not enough room to balance back fully onto her rear (she did try, though, which is great!)
On the first down rep, she tapped both of her front feet before takeoff to jump 1 (front end use more than hind end). She was trying to push from the rear on the other down start reps, but it was hard and couldn’t quite get the same power into the set point as the sit reps. On the last rep, she couldn’t quite get her rear over the 1st bar and ticked it.
So I think the sit starts produce the best form on this grid (and that will be the same for future grids). And you can still use a down stay as her start behavior on sequences, because she will be set up 10 or 12 or 15 feet fro the first jump and has more room to move out of the down and into the stride. That way she will approach takeoff using the form she is using from the sit here.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Once I gave him that tunnel, it took a lot to get him back!>
One of the things about this game is there is an arousal regulation element for some dogs – the tunnel can change their arousal state, and add in tugging for men more arousal! But this is GOOD because it simulates arousal state changes we might see on course (picture a UKI course with a 30 foot send to a tunnel, for example – WHEEEEE!!!!)
So after sending to a tunnel in this game, we can gain some insight into how to help him regulate that arousal. Self-regulation is not a strong skill in adolescent dogs but he overall does really well with it and just needs a little help. So two things to try:
– after a tunnel rep, tug as the reward, then walk back to the start position using the pattern game with treats. That can help center arousal again.
– after a tunnel rep, tug as the reward and then go the wing wrap – but place the toy in an obvious, visible position on the other side of the wing to give him a visual aid to wrap not tunnel. This is part of enhancement learning, enhancing the wrap exit when his brain sees the tunnel 🙂And you can use this setup to work the arousal regulation – have him do a tunnel then get the wrap. When he is able to do that… do 2 tunnels in a row then back to the wrap (with helping regulation in between the reps).
From what I have seen on the videos, he is really good with arousal regulation so this is going to take things to the next level, preparing him for what he might experience internally when running courses or at a trial. Let me know how he does!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
That is a bummer that the camera fell over! Did all the reps pretty much look like this?I think her form is looking good! She hit the bump on jump 1 with her back feet – I think that was more about the sudden movement on the release (you put the toy on the ground, released, and ran all in one heartbeat :)) So try to put the toy on the ground, start moving it/walking forward, then release her.
I think she is ready for a bump or low bar on jump 2 now, to teach her to push up with her rear since her mechanics are looking good so far! If you have another bump, that will be perfect. If not, do a rep or two with a 4 inch bar then try it at 6 inches. She seems ready!
Great job!
TracyHi!
For the wait – she is doing well here! You are much better able to walk forward away from her and she is staying nicely Remember you can mix in throwing the reward back to her. That can really solidify staying where you put her, because the reward coming back to her is great placement for staying where you left her 🙂 Yes, she might take the toy and run around a little bit but that is something she really really loves, so it is a high level reward. You can bring a 2nd toy to trade to help get the first toy back 🙂About the weaves:
>weaves ony really get two reps before she starts to try other things.>
Is she offering different behaviors after 2 reps, even when she has been correct? That is something to work through at this stage before closing the weaves because it might be a sign she is still guessing on the first 2 reps. So you can open the weaves up for more success and more reps.
>haha great minds think alike – used a target this morning much better driving down.>
Great!!! Adding the target will also help her go across it because she will have a ‘job’ at the other end.
>Also discovered if I am in the right place she does backsides and threadles- so just need to add the verbals and move me out of picture slowly.>
This is good!!! And yes, you can add more independence. How often are you seeing backsides and threadles in course design? I am guessing you see them at the higher levels – we see them a lot at the higher levels of one organization but much more rarely in the others.
Tracy
Hi! It should transfer pretty easily – were you doing them just as simple exits, or was turning away from you involved? If she was not turning on the simple exits like in the game, you might have been late with the cues. She is speedy and will need to hear/see them at least 6 feet (maybe more) before she enters the tunnel. You can put a marker on the ground to make sure you are on time 🙂
Let me know how she does!
TracyHi – thanks for the bump, I answered this in my mind but never typed it out LOL! Sorry!!
I don’t think the multi-wraps are super useful for that – we will add more of the “you can turn away from us on the same verbal” concept in a couple of weeks when we revisit the minny pinny idea. Plus, doing it on only a wing can confuse front side verbals versus backside/threadle verbals, so I like to have the visual of a bar or bump involved when taking things to the next level.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyHi!
> first couple of runs were typical for him, start well and then go check out the ring crew then come back and finish. Last run of the day I got this from him – >
This was a really good run! And there was ring crew visible at the front of the ring (he did not look at the person we can see on the video as you led out), and he ignored the judge who was moving pretty close to him. SUPER!!!!
> slower here that he usually runs but I’m confident that his speed will come back as he gets his head straightened out.>
Yes, he was processing a bit and also some of the turns on the course were weird (like the exit of the weaves to the jump) so he slowed down. Overall he had good speed and really good engagement!
> Not sure what his issue with the AF was, but he did choose to work with me here – Yay for that.>
Yes, that was odd for him – maybe it was the challenge of ignoring the exit gate? But he stayed engaged while you called him back and that is a big win! In previous situations, calling him back would have almost guaranteed disengagement but he worked through it really well here!
What you are seeing are the incremental improvements based on the training. Having to take the training to different locations for trials makes it harder for sure (new environments make it harder to generalize the skills) but there is *definite* progress. We can scroll back to previous videos to see the big leaps forward! And his class videos are almost perfect now, because that is where he has had the most experience with this – I know we have a lot of videos when he would have a lot more trouble ignoring people in the ring, the instructor, and the people/dogs in the other ring! So I think he is on the road to success here.
For example, on the class videos: he completely ignored the ring crew on video 1. At :05 on the 2nd video. your cue almost put him into the lap of the ring crew person but he stayed on his line and didn’t even look at her. Yay!You sent him off course so you stopped but he needed to get rewarded for that moment.
Next step in class – have the ring crew people moving a bit or eating 🙂
It seems like you are being asked to run silently and that has some uses for handling… but I am not sure if that is helpful for him in challenging spots (like passing distractions). Talking to him there can be very connecting and helpful!
>Question – I’m still not clear on the best way to help him realize that ignoring the RC is a good thing and how to best reward it. In these clips, the RC by the weave entrance was never an issue and the boy never got a thing for it not being an issue. When would have been the right time to reward? Last short sequence here, I rewarded by the RC
Should I be thinking about building a chain here – reward by RC, reward after next obstacle past RC, reward two obstacles past RC – does the reward then become more about the obstacle performance that ignoring the RC?>Think of it as a two-part process:
– surprising him with varying when and where the reward comes (this can include someone else throwing it, or you marking the end of run to go get the reward), relative to passing/ignoring ring crew. It can come immediately, it can come 3 jumps further down the line, and eventually it comes at the end of the run, or any place in between. The surprise factor is great for learning and also great for motivating him to keep moving (because the surprise factor is linked to dopamine, which motivates the dogs to keep moving for rewards :))
For now, the harder the challenge, the sooner the reward can come. Ring crew in class, 20 feet away? Not that hard anymore. Ring crew in class eating pizza, 5 feet away? VERY HARD and so the reward can be quick.For him, I think having the reward appear by being thrown from someone else would be great – that factors in you running without toys/treats, and really enhances the surprise factor!
– the 2nd part of this is that by varying when/where the reward comes, staying on the line and working the course becomes more valuable and motivating. So then the whole course gets more value, while the ring crew gets less valuable. For him, people are intrinsically more valuable than jumps/tunnels – and his natural interest in people is sometimes overriding his interest in jumps/tunnels/etc. But the tables are turning and we are seeing more and more interest in the agility obstacles overriding his interest in people, so he is running fuller courses more! The progress is definitely happening! Since he is primarily food-driven, we are having to be a bit more creative about when/where the reward happens (especially in NFC trial runs) but I can definitely see him getting better and better.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>Thanks for all the great advice on the runs! I am noticing that he’s an energy-matcher and when it’s loud and kind of exciting at the trial he might be a bit harder to get engaged at the start line, but he seems to get amped up and excited by more chaos. I guess that’s better than getting worried as the energy goes up!>
Yes! Some dogs are what I call “Game Day Players” – this means that they work fine in practice… but they light up and add a lot more speed at trials. It is a good thing because they also are able to maintain their engagement and accuracy. Fun!
>YES! It was a real run using the actual course! And, since I hadn’t checked in for this one (oops!) and didn’t have a toy they counted it as official and he even got a Q. So baby dog is now on the board! Didn’t mean to but the course was nicely designed and I wanted to try without a toy and it worked out. 🙂>
That is exciting! Congrats!
>I’m going to try more empty hands, but don’t worry, I won’t be getting greedy. I want him to be super confident and that’s going to take more time. I’m not going to be a “fix-it” person. And we have no trials now until the first weekend in May, so might be a little quiet in the forum for a bit.>
Time is on your side! It takes time to really percolate the right balance for trials, and right now the training side of things is more important to keep building skills and keeping it fun.
>Oh, I am also noticing that he’s getting a bit more confident about running the portion of the course by the crowd, but still has some hesitation there so I’ll be extra sure my cues and connections are solid on those portions.>
And beg/bribe people at class to stand there with their dogs so you can reward him with yummy treats in the moment of running past them.
>I do wish Reacher would find agility more intrinsically rewarding like he seemed to when he was a puppy, but hopefully some of that joy will come back the more confidence he gains. Or, he just won’t be that dog. We shall see. I’m still going to think of anything I can to bring that fun/joy back.>
I think he does find it intrinsically rewarding – part of that is chasing you, which he loves. In most sopts of his trial runs, he is in full on extension. What you might be feeling is that there is a time lag because he has to jump an 8 inch bar, which is slower than running on the flat or wrapping wings. So it feels like you have more time to get ahead but that does not mean he is not running hard 🙂 Also, puppy training doesn’t have the high level of distraction outside the ring – the only spots I see him slowing down to process stuff is the trial distraction areas, but that will go away and he will blast through those too.
Speaking of fun, last night in class I wasn’t really feeling like doing agility in the traditional sense (just in the mood I guess) and just wanted to see if we could have more fun out there, so mainly we just played around with the toys and did only a few small things.
>We mostly just played around in the ring with his toys (no food). Then a bit of chase.>
He seemed to really have a blast chasign the toy – then when you added the jumps, you did a bit of the crazy ‘ready ready’ lead out… he seemed to love that to! Super fast!!!
> Then I tried a couple of distance challenges at the end. For that I wish I’d thrown the toy farther out on the line, but he didn’t seem to have any issue working away from me, so that’s good.
>You can hand a toy or cookie ball to the instructor and have her run with it for him (if he likes that) or throw it really far. That is a fun surprise factor!
>I was also thinking about just keeping him jumping 8″ even though I know he could do 12″. I’m not sure what the norm is these days for running Preferred/Select, but we’re not World Team material and not expecting to compete for super stardom so maybe he’d have more fun at a lower jump height. What do you think?>
There is plenty of super stardom to be had jumping in preferred/select! The competition is as fierce as you want it to be, locally and nationally. True there are no as many European event opportunities, but that might not be something you care about 🙂 I think jumping lower can extend a dog’s career simply because it is easier on their bodies. And it is FUN FUN FUN – one of my dogs started her career in Select and I never moved her out of it (Hot Sauce). And I think Larry Whippet will also spend his career in 16 Select… plenty of competition and opportunities there! So I am on board with 8 inches for him, or spending the first competition year at 8 then revisit the possibility of 12.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>No video today, I forgot to line up my camera with my video markers so there’s nothing to see 😛 Oh well!!>
Bummer! But is sounds like a good session!
> He did great when I connected 🙂 When I didn’t connect, he ran straight towards me- seems reasonable!>
Yes – and great feedback from him about whether you were visibly connected or not.
>And then we did the wrap/tunnel verbals game, he really wants that tunnel LOL. We did ok when he was on my right, he struggled more on my left and I moved the wing pretty far away to get a successful rep then we stopped. We kept it short and will revisit!>
When you revisit it, you can also help by putting his toy in the gap between the wing and tunnel. So when he is on your left and you cue the wrap, the toy is already visible there and he can have the ‘a-ha!’ moment of wrapping and not just tunneling 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
