Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
She is doing well with the games! You can move the wings even closer on the zig zags, so they overlap the bumps a little. The goal is to eventually get her bouncing side to side 🙂>>Had a moment where she had to stare over her shoulder because Dean let Demi out in the side yard, but she held her sit and turned back and then did her thing so yay>>
Yay! She was great to look at the distraction but hold her stay and return her focus to you. Super!!!The stay is definitely a little challenging in this game because the handlers have to go to different spots and it is a pretty long lead out.
Speaking of stay… it was interesting that she struggled to release on the set point on a couple of the reps. It almost looked like she thought the flurries were treats on the ground at the beginning? Or she was processing a puzzle and didn’t release. Have you seen that elsewhere? I don’t recall her doing that anywhere, so it is probably a puzzle she is trying to solve. I think the toy was well-liked and even if it wasn’t she would release to it anyway then demand cheese. It was hard to tell the form on the set point because she didn’t want to release or power through it, so let’s chalk it up to flurries and see if it happens elsewhere at all.
She did well with both the tandem turns and the lap turns. Super!!! The lap turn got a LOT of collection (facing her is a big slow-down cue) so the tandem turn will probably be more of a go-to move its her. Because it was easy, you can spread out the wings more and run more 🙂 That makes it wilder for her (giddy up!) and harder for you 😁 See if you can do it with the wings 15 feet apart, then 18, then maybe 20!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning! These games are looking good and we can take everything to the next level.
The transitions game is looking strong… you can definitely start the deceleration sooner (and remember not to decelerate on the Go reps, keep running all the way pst the jump).
On some of the wider turns, like at :09, the decel was happening as he was taking off so he didn’t have time to turn til after landing. You got better and better with the timing – :21 was earlier, as was :29, :43, etc. You can challenge his commitment by decelerating sooner so he can collect before takeoff (which will help prevent the bar down at :49):
Send to the wing wrap to tart and accelerate until he is maybe one full stride past the exit of the wrap. Then, decelerate while you are still moving forward (and start the verbals at that time too). It will feel early 🙂 But if you keep moving forward and keep connection, he will drive into the collection really well and you can do the FC even sooner too!If he pulls off the jump, you might be decelerating and rotating at the same time, or decelerating too abruptly. I think he will do great with earlier timing.
The ladder grid is going really well: great stay, nice quick footwork, nice form! Yay! Since this went so well, you can angle the jumps to present a very different visual to him. It will still be a straight line on his path, but the jumps are slightly rotated so it will look really different.
>> Our RC aren’t that good. >>
I think you sorted them out really well and they looked really good! Refreshing the go at the beginning helped the RCs, and also using the over (or over-switch) verbals instead of the go verbal really helped too. After the go reps, you were really good about driving forward on the RC line which helped him commit AND turn. So for the next session, start with the GO reps and I bet the session is even smoother.
For the zig zags – these went best when you handled them like front crosses (like at 2:39 and 2:47) instead of a serp, because the foot rotation helped him come into the gap (otherwise he stayed on a parallel line to your motion). So for these, you can lead out and handle to get him in and out of the gaps. When you add bars, I think it will look a lot more like serps so he will come in more easily. With that in mind, you can add bars for the next session (you will see that game is posted 🙂 )
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
This is a really hard game for sure!>>I realized that going all the way to the ground was too hard for her so I started with a stay and having me put it most of the way down – I hope that was the right choice but let me know if there is something better to build up that stay.>>
Breaking it down was totally the right thing to do and it helped her a whole lot! She is very fast to respond to her sit cue (yay!) but then it was definitely hard for her to let the toy get to the ground. So breaking it down to reward her when it moved only a few inches… then a little further on the next rep, and working up to getting it down to the ground eventually (like the last rep of the 2nd video) helped her figure it out and reduced her frustration.
When you break it down like that, you can ping-pong the challenge by sometimes making it really easy and rewarding her when you lower it only a couple of inches, and sometimes making it harder by lowering it more. That ping-pong approach will keep the success rate high (which avoids frustration) and also gets more and more duration on the stays.
One other way to reward her: you can mix in tossing the toy behind her too. So on some reps, you release her forward to the toy like you did here with your ‘get it’ release. And on other reps, you can use a different marker (I use ‘catch’ even though the dogs don’t actually need to catch the reward LOL) and toss it behind them. That variable schedule also helps to reinforce the duration, and also balances her desire to come forward to the toy all the time (because sometimes the toy will be coming back to her 🙂 )
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>>It’s been a crazy week! I feel so behind! >>
No worries! We have catch up weeks at the end. Life does get crazy sometimes!
The decel game went really well – I am especially excited about how well she was moving in terms of speed and happiness when you were not moving. When I first met her, she thought handler decel was STUPID hahaha and she would slow down or lose motivation. Now she powers through it with speed and tight turns. This game is particularly hard because we don’t really help the dogs – we just stand there in the position with a little connection LOL! She was great.
It was interesting to watch her mechanics – she was tighter in her turns when she was turning to her left (on your right). But also she had more footwork questions on that side (some lead changes as if he was trying to figure it out) and also she dropped the bar at :19 and ticked it on other reps.
The turns were not quite as tight when she was turning to her right – but they were more powerful and fluid, and I don’t think she touched the bar on those on any of those reps. So in watching both, I think she is more comfy turning to her right and the tighter turns turning to her left are more about her slowing down more to figure it out. The turns on the right are great!
>>What caused her to knock the bar a few times? >
The only knocked bar I saw here was at :19 turning to her left (let me know if I missed others on this video). And that was when she was sorting out her footwork and you did the FC so she was surprised. When she knocked other bars, was it also on left turns? It might just be a mechanics thing, like when right-handed people learn to write their names with their left hands 🙂 She just needs a session or two to sort it out so she can be comfortable in both directions.
The Wingin’ It game also looked great! Great job going past the tunnel – that is hard! You hd great connection and that is how she read it really well. It seemed easier when you added motion by running past it as part of a bigger sequence. There was only one little blooper at 1:42 – you didn’t have a lot of motion (started from the wing) and you turned your shoulders forward/looked ahead a tiny bit – she read it as a blind cross into the tunnel. It really was the tiniest bit of shoulder turn, but it was right next to the tunnel and enough for her to say “yay! Tunnel!” LOL! Compare to the excellent connection on the next rep at 1:50 (and the other reps) to get her past the tunnel – super nice!
>>When I put it all together, she missed the tunnel entry a few times. Was I miscuing her?>>
I don’t think you were miscuing here – like the decel game, I think what we were seeing was her trying to sort out pretty challenging mechanics without a lot of handler help. Collecting to get into the tunnel backside is hard, and it is not something the pups have seen a lot of yet. Many, many of the dogs find it hard to do and will run past it.
On the very first backside at :12, she got it but look at how her hind end swings out. She got it and she got other reps when you were decelerated – but when you added more motion with a send-and-go, she was not able to collect a couple of times. You helped her out perfectly by using a little less motion on the send until she got the turn (1:37 and 1:55). She worked out the mechanics and then by the end (2:12) she was able to do it while you were moving a lot faster. Well done to you for helping her out by dialing back the motion!
>>Do you have any more classes coming up or do you take the summer off?>>
Each summer we have the CAMP class online, which is a handling & skills class for competition-level dogs (Novice through Masters and International). It is big fun and this is the 12th year we are running it. It has a different pace: plenty of sequences/courses to play with, but they are released every 2 weeks. And we also do live classes 🙂 It will start in June – I will figure out the exact dates next week! Stay tuned 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
I agree – this flew by!!!! And these pups are growing up! I am glad to har that Vibe is doing amazing and that your bond & teamwork are really coming together :). That is the most important part!!! Thank you for sharing her adventures 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Previously we taught a similar game, using “tunnel”, for direct approach, and “through!”, for entering from the opposite end. Could “through!”, be used as a verbal here? Instead of adding another verbal, which I might forget?>>
Absolutely! This is the “through” game, just expanded to add more speed and handler motion. So “tunnel: is for the direct approach and “through” is for the other side (nearer to you). No need to add another verbal at all 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>This was from yesterday over lunch. (I think – can’t rember back that far.)>>
That is highly relatable LOL
Zig zags: Her set up right next to the wing looked great! She did leave the sit a few times if you walked away talking and without connection, she might think that indicate she was done? But when you were connected and quieter, she held the stay beautifully.
Being on the opposite side totally helped her at the beginning, and then she remembered the skill. So you can try to be on the opposite side for the first rep of a new session to help refresh it then add in being wherever you want on there line.Since she did so well, this game can go into the rotation of once or twice a week, but a little more challenging each time. The next step would be to have the middle wing touching the first bump, so the distances are shorter (theoretically she would need to move more quickly). You can do a rep or two starting where you left off here as a refresher, then you can move the wing to the bump so there are no gaps between the wings and bumps.
Layering also went well – it was good to reward her for staying on her parallel line even though she went past the jump on the first full rep. That parallel line concept is the key to layering, and finding the jump gets easier and easier as the parallel line concept gets solid. By rewarding the parallel line, she was great with the skill on the rest of the session including with the tunnel on the other side AND the entries being available! SUPER!!! You can add in the FC after the jump to get her into the tunnel, she seems ready for that 🙂
Nice job rewarding the wing – you can also reward after the initial sending away by tossing cheese to the opposite side of it. Mix it up and keep it surprising because the nerdy science stuff says the surprise the key to the best learning.
Looking at the tunnel threadle video:
Running past the tunnel is something that happens at this stage: they are going FAST! They are EXCITED!!! And that makes it harder to organize to get into the tunnel and it is also possible her brain was telling her she did the tunnel and nailed it LOL! Teenage brains…. LOL!! And it could also be a slight bleed over from the layering work which was ‘go past the tunnel’. So stretching out the tunnel even more will help her see it more easily and you can do a warm up of just the tunnel. We will balance in the tunnel cues in the layering game too 🙂
I think the tunnel threadles went better when you started from the rocking horse so you could show the turn on the wing more easily. I know the game was supposed to start broken down to just one wing but she showed us at 1:17 that the rocking horse approach was better. Thanks, Lift! That rep looked really good! You were able to show the decel and shoulder turn on the wing before the tunnel threadle and she nailed it.
As you do the tunnel threadles, you can move more directly to the tunnel entry you want rather that pull away from it then draw her back to it – the couple of steps of pulling away got her looking at you more than we want and I think she will be fine to let you move directly to the entry. Your motion was spot on for now: not too fast, not too slow 🙂 It will be easier to add running soon 🙂>>She also threw in her own rocking horse moment in the middle so I went with it. (apparently rewarding a few wing wraps here and there has made her re-think the value of the wing…of course there was no jump in play here.>>
It was great! It made sense to her, you might have moved an eye lash in that direction, and she was happy to do it. And the tunnel was in play, so it was not just isolated wing wraps. Love it!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi again! These skills are going really well and you can add in the Mission:Transition game to get the FC wraps.
Looking at video 1:
Since we are thinking about markers, a couple more thoughts:
“GO” is of course a verbal directional but it can also be predictive of reward placement (like a marker would be) so throwing it long (like you did at :17 and :21 and 1:02 and 1:13) was great. He did not look back at you on this first video or any of the other go reps on any of the videos, Yay!!!The “Payday” marker indicated reward was from your hand with toy on these reps. See more on that below. You used different markers for cookies from your hand, so try to be super consistent with a word for that too.
Rear crosses looked great here!!!
Backside wrap looked lovely – be sure to let him see the full wing as you move to where the wing and bar meet (harder to see when he was no your right heading to the backside) – he really understood the countermotion as you moved past. Well done!
The backside reps at :36 and 1:17 were really good – you didn’t block the wing and you moved forward directly but you maintained connection behind you to the landing spot to support commitment.
Video 2: This video looks virtually identical to the home video, in terms of how well he was responding to the cues. That is HUGELY good, because it means he was not struggling to process the info in the new/different environment. SUPER! And your cues were clear!
Note how he looks at you when you said “payday” at :03 – I think you were trying to reward ahead but you said “payday” so he stopped driving forward and looked back to you. This is good to know: turns out that “payday” is probably your toy-in-hand marker 🙂 So you can keep it that way and you can add a different marker for a reward out ahead.
This video gives us good angles on seeing the line of motion on the backside cues: you were straight on the line to where the wing and bar meet at :27 and the line was really clear to him. At :32 heading towards the camera, you blocked the line a little then pulled off it, which creates a bit if a banana-shaped line for him 🙂 and could potentially pull him off the backside of the jump.
Video 3, adding the tunnel: Lovely connection from you on these!!!!! He did really well. Small details to consider:
Give him a tunnel exit cue before he goes into the tunnel (a single GO cue is useful and can be timed to be delivered when he is about 5 feet away before entering the tunnel) so he exits looking forward.
For the rear crosses:
:06 and :15 were RCs on the flat (also on the reps on the other side) – he did find the RCs but looked at you before making the turn. He did figure it out when you had more convergence at the end, but he had a big question early on. The more ideal position for a RC there would be on the line between the tunnel and the jump so he can turn before takeoff. That would also put you more ahead of him than a RC on the flat will. For the RCs on the flat, you can use tandem turn cues after the tunnel so he doesn’t look at you as much.For turning to the jump towards you, you can turn your shoulders a little sooner so he takes off for the jump after the tunnel facing the new line. The timing will likely be after you see him exit the tunnel and look at the next jump (things happen fast with hm :))
This last video had the RC between the tunnel and the jump and he was great! Really nice connection and RC line from you. He looked at you a little when he exited the tunnel, and there is where a tunnel exit cue will help – before he enters the tunnel, you can tell him to “go” so he knows to look straight and not at you 🙂 And it looks like the turn towards you was very clear for him too – great job with your directionals on the jump here too!
When you add the backside wraps to this setup, ramping up your connection to his eyes as you drive the line will help get him to the backside. The ‘normal’ connection here worked great to get the RC on the front side. When you are not that far ahead of him, adding extra big connection to his eyes can really help support the cues.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Payday is my go to word when I don’t have a clicker.>>
Great! Now that there is more sequencing and handling happening, it will probably be easier to use the payday marker than a clicker.
>> I’ve tried adding the reward placement markers–that’s a slower process for me though I do see value in it (earlier you thought I could get by with fewer of those and I am currently rethinking my list–I agree that a simpler list is more in keeping with my ability to keep all the verbals straight. You might hear me couple payday with “bonus” when I want to continue paying for a particularly good rep.>>
Yes, all you need are an important couple 🙂 Others can be added later, but I think a “get it” for reward thrown ahead and a marker for the reward in your hand will be very helpful! You probably don’t need a different marker for toys versus food on the get it but if you train with both food and toys on your hands a lot, then you should consider different markers for the toy in your hand versus the food in your hand, so he knows how hard to grab the thing from you hand.
>>When we first started with reward markers and a different (less punitive in my mind) method of IYC, he was getting very good at only taking rewards when offered.>>
Those are a great way to start, and very ‘clean’ set ups where the reinforcement strategy is super clear. It gets harder when we put all the other pieces in LOL! I can totally relate!
>>Adolescence, my inconsistencies, impatience when I’m slow to get started, higher arousal with more movement, frustration on his part if something seems too hard, etc. can all cause the toy grabs. >>
For the adolescence/inconsistency/frustration: use a LOT of reset reinforcement and also reinforce if the handling goes wrong because it is 99.99% likely that it is human error and he is correct 🙂
For the higher arousal with more movement: often that makes the connection harder to see and the cues harder to process, so you can take a two-pronged approach now that we are adding more movement:
– when you are going really fast, use food reinforcement. That will balance the higher arousal from the motion with the lower arousal of the food and if a good way to bridge the game into higher arousal.
– when using a toy, don’t move as fast and make HUGE connection 🙂 That will also be a good balance of the higher arousal from the toy, with a slightly lower arousal approach to the game.For the slow getting started: Yes, young dogs think we humans are just SLOW hahahaha So rather than having him milling about and not knowing what to do with himself, you can either have him waiting on a platform or in his crate while you get yourself ready then call him into the game, or get everything ready using food and switch to the toy as you begin the game. He will be happy to wait on a platform, I think, because he really likes having a job to do or game to play 🙂
>>I’m going to start logging when it happens in each session so that I become better aware.>>
Perfect!!!! A pattern will reveal itself!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Thanks for checking because sometimes things don’t load properly. Yes, only one game this week as a bit of a catch up week 🙂 Have fun!!! And we have extra weeks at the end, so there is no pressure to get it all done every week.
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I opted for some pieces of cooked chicken. Messy in one’s pocket however. I find the lotus ball is a bit clumsy on reward, and sometimes too exciting being more a toy than treat. I need to use treats right now to have less, “yeehaw!” >>
Yes, good point about the lotus ball potentially being too exciting. She definitely seemed to like the cooked chicken!!!!
This session went really well. She was able to find the ‘out’ jump and also go straight when you did not want the out jump. Super!!!
You can start to add more distance, so the start wing is a little further away (laterally) so she has to move another stride or two away to find the jump. The outside arm worked really well here! So as you add the distance, add a little more eye contact (say the verbal directly to her cute face :)) as you do the handling. That will really support the line! Looking at her instead of where you throw the reward might lead to less accurate reward throwing, but that is fine: connection is more important and as long as the reward throw is generally towards the jump, she will get the idea 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She did great on the low DW! Excellent balance when she turned around, and some jumping off later in the video too. Learning to jump off is so important so she knows that if she loses her balance, she can safely leap off and not have a bad spill. This is something to re-visit every now and then, to maintain the acrobatic skills 🙂And since tunnels under the dog walk are such a hot course design element lately, I might revise this game to add teaching the dog to hop off while avoiding a tunnel. Stay tuned!
Great job 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>Thanks so much for the advice about starting FEO. I’m going to hold off on FEO and just let her do the tunnels fun run.>>
Perfect! She is very young, there is no rush! She is talented so we can take our time transitioning into the ring.
>>THIS ^^ This right here is why I need to cool my jets and take MaxPup4!!
Ha! It is fun and very very systematic but also individualized.
>>Also what you said about Seminars and classes allowing me to use food made so much sense! A much easier transition for her!>>Yes, it will feel like trials but you can still have cookies!
>> Can I do the 2×2 track with 3 sets of 2x2s and a set of 6 weave poles?
Yes – most of the learning in the 2×2 track is done on 6 poles (3 bases)
>>Is it best to do both tracks? Maybe I can see if I can borrow a set of channels for a few months?>>I think it is best to do both, at least for part of it. The channels are fantastic for getting the dogs understanding a lot about independence and all 12 poles. The 2x2s are great for breaking things down. And at some point, the dogs tell us which they prefer! And then you can do the rest of it using the method they prefer. It is pretty cool!
>>One last thing I just wanted to let you know that the image examples that show the filled-out field guides are not loading on the intro pages.>>Darned technology! I will take a look and see what is going on with that.
Looking at the video:
The forced front crosses looked great! Try to slowly put your hand into position before the release, so she doesn’t think hand movement is the release.
She also did well with the throwback! She looked surprised at :23 and :38 when you did it but her turns were appropriately tighter! Yay!For the balance where you are cuing the front side of the jump, you can have her on your right like you did at :10 and :30, and then have her serp to her right rather than do a FC on the landing. Or you can have her on your left and super over the bar to her left.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>She was much more of a velcro dog and did really tight wraps on her own, but was not near as fast as
Only your 2nd agility dog? You are doing AMAZINGLY with her!!!! JJ is fast and getting faster every day… which certainly makes it harder to get tight turns! But the timing will lock in and it will get a lot easier 🙂
>>I did make the working area larger for the whole set of sequences this day because like you had said it was pretty tight. The jumps actually ended up being about 21 feet apart on the dogs running line. I had had them at about 18.
It might be that she takes a tighter line than the average dog’s line? The 21 foot distance here did look better! I measure it as 21 feet or more center-to-center on the bar, so it gives the dogs a more accurate distance when they run on tight lines.
>>JJ needs constant reminders about her start line. She is very enthusiastic about her sequence time. LoL.
Oh yes, she is definitely excited to play! I love it! She does better when you give her one more stay verbal as you re-connect and get into position. When you don’t, you are accidentally pairing the release with the arm and re-connection, so she was releasing on the re-connection. Reminding her to stay while your arm moves and while you look at her will keep the errors to a minimum.
The sequences went really well!!!
Video 1:
These went super nicely! You can trust the FC at :06 and don’t help her land or come around the wing. As soon as she lifts off, start heading for the next line. If she back-jumps, we can fix that through training.
You might not need the spin at :32 – you can probably send and leave, and still get a great turn. If you do the spin, start the decel and FC when she lands from 1 so the spin is in progress before takeoff, and so the BC is done before she exits the wing wrap of 2.Stay more connected to her on the last line – when you look forward, she looks at you (like at :38).
Video 2:
The forced FC to the RC on the tunnel looked great on all 3 reps here. Great line up position! And excellent timing on the forced FC. This is where she was wanting to release on the re-connection as you got into position, so a little stay reminder is fine here.Video 3
>>it was really hard for me to get her to the back side of the jump just before the tunnel,>>She read the opening line nicely! Connection will be the key to getting the backside. At :10 when you indicated the backside, you looked forward and pointed forward… which from her perspective is exactly the movement of a blind cross. So she changed sides, good girl! She did save it and find the backside, double good girl! But you can smooth out that line by keeping your dog-side arm back like a serp, and making huge eye contact as she lands – then maintain that eye contact until she heads to the backside.
This video was posted twice, so I think one is missing?
Video 4: she is doing really well here too, so we can work out the mechanics of the various exits of jump 2. You can throw her back to 2 without turning your feet, which makes the running line easier for you. Your feet remain rotated and upper body (arm, shoulders, connection) sends her back to the landing spot of 2.
At :47, you can pick her up on your left side so you don’t need to RC the next jump (although she did just fine with that :))Video 5: The 2nd rep here had the best moment of throw-back on 2 – you didn’t really rotate your feet and she read it really well! You used your upper body to send her behind you and pick her up with your left, so the turn was tight and you were ahead on the next line. The first rep had a little too much rotation but the 2nd rep was lovely!
Great job here!!!!
Tracy
