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Hi!
>>I am curious as to when you would typically begin to trial a pup. Jj just turned 18 months old today and I do not have any plans to get her in a trial at this age or even near this age,
Great question! Depending on the dog and how much experience she has had in different places, I might start some FEO/NFC runs between 18 months and 24 months. Those runs are simple, done with a toy in my hand, at a lower height, and the goal is to help the dog get happy! MaxPup 4 actually outlines the entire progression for easing them into their competition careers.
>> but I have a number of people that are already bugging me to get her in a trial.>>
Ignore them 😀
>> JJ does well with 12 weaves, but only if I have wires on the first and last part of the weaves. When she is going fast she does not see them as an obstacle at all unless I have the wires on the weaves. I want that to be more solid before I would consider putting her i a trial.>>>
I don’t ask for weaves in the first trial(s) – too hard! Then when I add weaves in, I have the toy for the FEO/NFC runs.
>> She has such lovely skills from all of the work that we have done through the Max Pup series and for that I will forever be grateful, but I want to be comfortable trialing with her when we get started with that>>
You can start planning by finding local places to take her to do FEO/NFC runs, so she gets happy in the ring before we add the hard stuff 🙂
TracyVoice to text did some weird things on the first part of my reply! I just made it more coherent, I hope lol
Hi!
This went really well! She made me laugh on the 2nd rep where you were saying “tunnel” and you let go of her but she was still thinking and didn’t move LOL! You had to kind of nudge herm so funny! Her place cue is a bit stronger here but I am excited to see how much the tunnel value is coming up, especially without you running! The big shake-off that she did at about 1:25 is usually a sign that it is really hard – but she worked perfectly and drove to the correct obstacle! Great job!!!!
TracyHi!
>>I worry about bringing my arm back too soon – and thus bringing her in to the backside. >>
The positional cue of you moving between the uprights of the serp jump and extending your arm should get her to serp. For bringing her to the other side like a threadle, the position cue is more in the gap between the 2 jumps, and the arm coming back is more of a big movement backwards. That, plus the verbals, should help her differentiate 🙂
T
Hi!
The moving target warm up looked good!
First set point – she was a little forward coming into the jumps here- maybe too far back on her setup? Also maybe the distance was too short on the first rep? For the next session, try a ‘dead’ toy on rep 1 then moving toy on rep 2, rep 2 was much better here 🙂 She is still sorting her striding out so easing into the motion might help that.
Looking at the toy play:
The first part didn’t really look like play, it looked more like youwere getting her back to the start area (with a little correction at :27, did she grab your hand?) then looked mostly like trying to get the toy back when you were in front of the jump.
It definitely looked more like play after 1:02 but no real reward for giving it back – I think a cookie exchange might be a great way to go!So you can reward and play play play, rather than move her back to the start while she is tugging. Then trade the toy for a cookie, go back to the start, play a little more, trade for a cookie, and cue the lineup. That can be more interactive and get even better tugging. 🙂
Good intro to the Minny Pinny here!! She is definitely getting the idea 🙂 Yes, keep rewarding the last turn so she ends up between you can the wings. But more importantly- add your markers: a get it for a toss or a bite if the toy is in your hand. You were using ‘yes’ a lot so she was looking at you because she not sure where to look when you said it or if she should keep going.
>>but the rear cross proved to be much too hard, so after two failed attempts, >>
Good job making it easier for her! The turn aways are HARD for sure. You can use a placed reward to get her to do the turn away directions without any physical help
>>However, I noticed from the video that she often would only bounce the first one and then throw in a 2nd compressed bounce before the third jump. Is this just her sorting out her feet still, or do I need to move the jumps closer together for the time being?>>
As she is processing this, you might see changes in her mechanics and that is fine 🙂 When she is a little more experienced, you can move the the bars/bumps a little closer together so that she is encouraged to bounce more.
>>>>And does it matter if she’s trotting through some of the harder reps when she has less speed?>>
Trotting is fine! And it is better to sort it out while trotting then to fling herself headlong into it LOL! I think she did a great job sorting out all of the mechanics and turning here, and it will get even easier as she sees more of it.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
I love that you are making the happy-factor the top priority. He seems pretty darned happy and confident on these games!!!!
>>We struggled with rear crosses, not because he doesn’t have drive, but not reading the pressure and doesn’t know the verbals.>>
I agree that his drive to the jump is great and also that the verbals are too new to override motion. The pressure on the late was late 😁so he ha already made a takeoff decision before you showed the pressure (you can see it at :04, :12, :16). You were closer to being timely at :07 but your feet turned too early, so that pushed him off the line. The info at :19 was definitely better, and the placed toy totally helped too! Doing the turn aways on one jump is good too (with the placed toy, to help add the verbals), so we will double check the motion being super clear too.
How did he do when you did the RCs on the prop on MaxPup? We should make sure he remembers those before we add it back to the jump – and also then work on showing the RC pressure the very instant he exits the wing wrap. And when you are going straight, be sure your position is on the outer edge of the wing, not tucked in towards the bar at all – that will help him be able to differentiate the cues even better.
Serp versus tunnel looked awesome, you were very clear! The next step now is to add motion – moving forward and showing the cues, and releasing while you are moving (be sure the release happens separately from when you start o move, so that we don’t accidentally pair the release with you beginning to move). When you add motion, you might need to rotate your upper body back to him more on the serps? He will let you know 🙂
For the new grid, he was a very good boy working the bounces! He was a little too far from the first bump on the first couple of reps, so he was putting his front feet down before the first bump and that was causing a short landing on the gap between 1 and 2. At 1:24 he was a little closer so stepped in better and had a better landing spot. Yay! So keep him nice and close for that set up. The angled bumps did not seem to b too hard – he was definitely processing them on the first rep but he still moved with a nice balanced bounce! Super! So maybe 1 more session with him lined up nice and close (probably about 6 – 8 inches from bump 1) and if he is happy with that, add the moving target 🙂
There was only one rep of it, the barrel to the 3 wing minny penny is a nice little bending practice!
On the tight binds at the end: he totally smoked you on the first blind LOL! You were being a polite, supportive puppy momma…. And he was so fast! LOL!!! So then you moved the timing way up for the next rep and the blind was MUCH earlier and MUCH better. Yay! At 1:50, you started the blind when he was Mayne only 1 stride out of the tunnel, which is the appropriate timing for him there. Nice connection on the exit of the blinds! And the FC on the barrels and the racetracks on both sides looked awesome 🙂 Add the 3rd barrel if you have the room to add more speed, or move these 2 barrels even further away so you have to run into the blinds 🙂
Great job!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>oh, and no windy day practices with cones bolstering the wings>>
Aha! That is why the cones were there. To deal with wind, I have filled tube socks with sand or pebbles, and used them draped over the feet of the wings to stop them from falling over in the wind without changing the visual of the jump itself.
I think the walking away with connection and not trying to move to fast is a good place to be right now!
When you are leading out, he is leaning forward which changes the elbow position and moves him off his hind end with weight shifting more to his front. We can help him stay more balanced using a stand stay, so that is something to play with separately from jump grids.
And, you can have him do a tight sit on a square platform that is big enough for him to do a tight sit comfortably – but not to lean much or stand up 🙂 That can help balance the sit, and it provides a tiny bit of conditioning for the hind end – he is a little too young to do real conditioning yet. I suggest that with eventually adding a moving target, but not in front of a jump grid yet.
For the distance in the grid? I don’t know if we have found the sweet spot distance yet, but that is fine for a pup in the 7-8 month range. One thing to be sure of with the moving target is to have it center of the bars when you release him – I think on some of the reps it was off to the side a bit, and that can change the jumping effort a bit too.
And over the next few months, his body will change a lot so the form will change too! We will keep working the framework until he grows into his adult body, then the grids will be adding more specifics about form 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! They are not your nemesis anymore! These are looking good!
One small detail that will get. them all perfect: stay closer to the start wing to set the RC sooner. On the RCs where she turned the wrong direction, you were actually too far ahead so you were not able to get onto the RC pressure line until she was halfway between the wing and jump. That is too late, even for little dogs: they have made a takeoff decision.
Compare to the reps where you got the RC: you were showing the RC pressure to the center of the bar before she got the halfway point, so she got it. The last 2 reps here were especially strong! Those were both right turns, so you will ant to get on that RC line extra early to get the left turns which are harder for her.
Sticking near the start wing (or near the first jump on a course) really helps use set the RC line – so by hanging back, we are actually earlier and will get ahead more easily on the RCs. So counterintuitive but works so nicely!!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! It is very fun to hear that you were playing long with the live class 🙂
Nice job working through the RCs – he was surprised at first, but the bowl REALLY helped him out. Also, I think he is a lefty: on the questions he had on the right turn RCs, he turned left first then right. When you switch to the left, yes, it looks like the bowl target was there but it was still a lot easier to get the left turns going. So for the next session, start him with the left turn RCs and see how he does.
>>We struggled with taking the tunnel! He got the serp no problem.>>
The Serps looked great, he had no questions about taking the jump. Super!!! One detail: be careful to have your arm in position, wait a couple of seconds, then release him: you were releasing and moving the arm at the same time, so he might begin to think that the arm movement is the release.
Straightening out the tunnel really helped him too – it is possible that the tunnel curved away might have ben the source of his questions because it turned him away from your position. He did great with the straight tunnel (and the placed treat), and adding motion went really well too! You can try the advanced game with the threadle mixed in now too 🙂
The diamond went really well – you had really great connection after the BCs!
Because he is so little, keeping your arms low really helped him out. And, adding more connection to his eyes on the tunnel exits helped too: when you were looking ahead and had a high arm, he didn’t know where to be on the tunnel exits because connection was blocked (like at 1:57 and 2:17 for example). But with low arms and more connection? Super!!! U can see this at 2:40, so nice!!!!
And the same when you exit a FC on the wing to send to the tunnel – low arms and connection to his eyes really helped, like at 2:14 and 2:37 – so nice!
>>On the set point, I moved the bumps out a few inches.>>
Great! Those reps looked good, especially the 2nd one (last rep). You can leave the framework there for a session or two, to let it percolate a bit as we add more to the grid 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>we worked a lot on tight wraps ( I think it was more than one spot) anyway, now that JJ is getting faster, she is finding that actions that may make her think more and and collected better are getting worse so I want to go back and review these things with her.>>
My guess is that is it not a lack of thoughtfulness… it is more that she has gotten faster, so the info is probably coming later so she is not getting the turn cues in time. The most important element of the tight wrap cue is the deceleration, which needs to happen basically no later than landing or exit of the next obstacle (and if the distance is tight, it starts as she is in the air of the previous obstacle). If the deceleration happens after she makes a takeoff decision (which is usually no later than the halfway point between the jumps) then you will get a wide turn because she saw too much acceleration, so chose her takeoff based on that info.
So definitely get video of where she is going wide so we can plan out the timing for her current needs (it is was easier when they were younger and slower LOL!!!). And if you get video during class, you can watch it between turns to see if your timing is on or not.
>>the serp was in line with the opening of the tunnel to the left (only a couple of feet to the left of the tunnel opening) and I had a really difficult time getting her over the first jump in the serp. >>
Sounds really hard! Based on her age and her serp experience and her speed… probably above her current pay grade as you mentioned. Using the class time to break it down and even angle the jumps as you break it down will help teach her the concept – it sounds like it was a scenario she had never seen, with high speed serps which are a newer skill anyway.
>>If I get a change I will try to duplicate the angles at home so you can see it better.>>
Yes! That would be great. And bring your camera or phone to class to get all the videos at this stage: she is a transition period from baby dog stuff to higher level handling, so video will be instrumental in getting the info to her in time as well as breaking down skills as needed, so there is not too much failure.
>>although this is a class for young dogs.>>
Sometimes the skills are too hard for young *fast* dogs, so be prepared to break things down as needed. I live by the 2-failure rule in classes & seminars too: If I think the dog can get it, I might try the skill. But if the dog fails twice in the session? Time to break it down and leave it broken down (rather than put it back together in that session – that is probably going to go sideways LOL!)
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>>she didn’t seem to be going fast – lots to take in up in that arena on the hillside.>>
The circle wraps require a lot of collection, so it is hard for either of you to go super fast when there are several in a row 🙂
The serps are also looking great! Your running line was really strong so she was able to pick up the serp line really well, even driving ahead when needed. Yay! When serping, you can have your serp arm back sooner: as soon as she exits the wing, you will ant her to be seeing the arm back and shoulders rotated so she can set up the slice jumping of the serp. On a couple of reps, you were hustling to get into position so your shoulder was closed forward, which changes the line on the serp. To be able to get to the serp jump and also have the arm back, sending to the wing from further away will make it easier! And she has a great send!
Speaking of the send:
>>I need treatment for my “go” babbling.>>
Ha! Yes, there was a lot of “GO!” On turn lines happening. She was wide because she was processing the go then switching to the turn. But we don’t want her to ignore a ‘go’ cue, so be sure to take a moment before each rep, pull up the turn cue, and send her on that: you’ll get a tighter line and keep the ‘go’ verbal from getting diluted.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Looking at the wingin’ it games: you had absolutely great timing on the first FC on the wing at :20 (on your right) – note the decel then the rotation, so he committed and also had a nice tight turn, while you were moving the other way.The other side was harder for you with the timing (on your left side). There was a bit too much forward motion at :45 and 1:04, making the FCs late – at 1:18 you added rotation but he read it like a rear cross because you did not have the decel before it.
Nice adjustment at 1:30 to have the decel and the rotation! Yay!!! That got a really nice turn too.
>>did make exit connection. >>
Yes! That really helped him be super clear on where to be when he exited 🙂
On the ladder game video:
Yes, he doesn’t fully understand the countrmotion of the circle wraps, so good job breaking them down to work on them! Because there is so much countermotion with you moving forward and him needing to complete the wrap, the ideal place to throw the reward is back behind you, to where the landing spot would be if there was a jump bar there.
He could complete the wrap if you stayed on the landing side and rotated, so that is a great starting point. As you work on the skill, you can add in walking forward so you can show him the countermotion and fade out staying on the landing side or rotating your upper body.
>>I missed the back side wrap training in the previous camps. >>
If you can to check them out, you can find them in week 8 of MaxPup 1 and week 4 of MaxPup 2.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
He had no questions about the zig zags! His stay looked great and he was perfect about changing his direction on both sides. YAY!!! Yes totally add another wing when you get back to your yard – and if he is fine with that, you can actually move the wings in closer so he has to do his zig zags even quicker (and you have to cue them quicker too LOL!!)>>We’ll be working the serpentines next, I think 🙂 we thought we got strike a pose in max pup 1, but teenage brain evaporated that. So we’ll go back to those games for quick refresh.>>
If he is having questions with the motion being added to the serps, you can angle the jumps he bar is facing him more. You will still move on the same serp line, but the angle of the jump will be easier and he can find it easily even as you move.
Great job here!
TracyHere is a video of me moving past the target on a higher level game – we haven’t taught the pups this game, but you can see my walking past the target while the dog hits and holds position. I went back to reward him on these but that was a while back, nowadays I would release forward or throw the reward back.
Hi!
>>Iowa!?!? That’s nearly half way across the country! >>
Ha! Yes, it is exactly close to neither of us LOL!!!
> I also realized I didn’t make her follow through with sit when I told her place….whoops! Bad mama training.>>
I think in this context, you were a good mama to reward her for getting on it and ignoring the the tunnel! You can get the sit during the next session 🙂
>>So with the teeter game…I watched your video over again and I didn’t get the explanation I need so I’m going to ask. Hopefully it’s not too dumb of a question. How does the target play into this long term? >>
Not dumb at all! I didn’t explain it at all LOL!! The target is commonly used in contact training to develop an independent understanding of the contact position: the dog should go to that position and hold the position while the handler does any number of a zillion things LOL!! Then we fade the target out while maintaining the independent position.
>>I don’t know how I’ll possibly translate that to the teeter in a course environment because I obviously won’t stop to reward that. Is it just teaching her where to target her feet and eventually the target is phased out?>>
Yes – it is teaching her to love going there and waiting until you release, so you can get to wherever you want to be on course.
>>Also, with your suggestion of starting to slowly walk when she gets into position, where does the target and rewarding come in?
The goal is that she doesn’t cue of your stopping or being nearby in order to get into her contact position. So you would keep moving, slowly, until she definitely stops: then you can release her forward and reward, or throw a reward back to her.
>> Is my back turned to her but face watching her?>>
Yes – you would be moving forward but watching her to see if she does it 🙂
>> When or where do reward if I’m slowly walking a couple steps past her.>>
I like to stay “break” and release the dog forward for a reward, or “Catch” and throw a reward back.
>> Essentially this skill is teaching her to stay on the teeter until released even if I’m in motion, right?>>
Exactly!
>> Do I use any verbal like stay or just let her figure it out and offer it?>>
I say “target” and that means “hit position and hold it”. Some people say stay, some people just use the teeter cue.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
