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Good morning!
>>So maybe I was doing a lot of things to help him. When he said he couldn’t work, we played. We had lots of impromptu short games of tug that he often instigated. I fed him out of a treat bowl for breakfast most mornings. He’s had extra naps because I have to go to the office twice a week now. I had never seen him stress down in training before. He’s also peeing on EVERYTHING (no sign of UTI) and getting into EVERYTHING.>>
Adolescent dogs are known to go through fidgety phases because the brain and body are going through such massive changes! It is also entirely possible that his body has not returned to baseline yet after his big seminar weekend. By baseline, I mean the HPA axis which control adrenaline, cortisol, and the physiological partners to all of that. Could take a few days, could take a few weeks! He might need long sniffy walks as part of the decompression to help his body return to that baseline… but no training or classes because that all will stimulate that HPA axis (especially if things don’t go well, or the challenges are hard).
So build in some free running, long sniffy walks, etc where possible (easier said than done in the heat of the summer!) and back off any hard or new challenges. That can mean hard/new skills, or hard/new locations.
And if the peeing on everything and having trouble with regulation continues, definitely check bloods/urine to see if anything is going on. And a visit to a Chiro or soft tissue massage person is great too, to make sure there isn’t something ‘out’ or a trigger point that could be a little ouchy.
On the videos: you can also structure the approach to training a little differently to help keep him from stressing down.
Mainly – reward effort in handling with really exciting rewards (same as if the sequence went correctly) because he is likely to be reading you correctly 🙂 Don’t just reward with excitement when things go according to your plan… reward with excitement always and don’t withhold reinforcement or deliver it without excitement. He is in it for the excitement from you, not just for the cookies 🙂
Basically: his reward is not the cookie, his reward is the big interaction and excitement from you as you deliver the cookie (there are actually a bunch of studies that support this, starting with Wolfram Schultz’s studies with monkeys and dopamine spikes. It is fascinating stuff!!!!
It is really important that there is no telling him he wrong in this stage of training 🙂 Adolescent dogs are really sensitive to punishment (withholding of reinforcement) and not that sensitive to reinforcement. That means yes, reward him… but most definitely try not to tell him he is wrong.
The cookie delivery is not the only thing that creates the high rte of success and motivation for him – it is also the “YAY! YOU ROCKED IT” response from you! So on the reps where you know you might have messed up the cue, or he gets on a line and you are not sure…. keep having that “YAY YOU ARE AMAZING!”response as you deliver the rewards – that is the true reinforcement, not just the actual treat delivery.
The other thing that we know about the adolescent brain is that it might be telling him that he absolutely nailed the response to the cue… then when you ay “dude, that is not it” he gets confused/frustrated so you lose him. The adolescent brain is weird LOL!!
So an example is on the very first rep – nope, he did not take the tunnel. Did his brain tell him that he totally took the tunnel? Yes, that is entirely possible 🙂 Watch his body language from :21 – :26… he looked away, tail dropped a bit, froze up. That is a bit of a stress response. He came back when you cued a hand touch, but we don’t want that initial stress response.
So rather than stop him and withhold reinforcement… just send him around the wing and reward that. Yes, we know that he missed the tunnel but HE may not know he missed the tunnel (adolescent brains… LOL!)
Then on the next rep, slow down the cue to the tunnel and reward that.
He did go in the tunnel really well at :28 and he did go into the entry your shoulders were pointing too… so he did get a cookie but the difference between a “good try” cookie (change in your body language, food delivery 7 seconds later) and a “OMG YOU NAILED IT BRILLIANTLY” cookie (happy body language, quick reward delivery) is discernible to him… so give him and OMG YOU NAILED IT exciting reinforcement even if it was not quite what you intended (that was a handler blooper there, not an adolescent brain moment).
Compare to the “yay!” And toy toss at :48 when you got it right versus the “oops” and change in body language when you got it wrong (not quite enough connection at 1:02) so he took the tunnel. You can totally give him the big “yay!!” Reward on that too, because he was going fast and focused with the info you are giving him there (even if it was not the same a your plan :)) And the big “yay look at you” reward when you got it right can be used even when you don’t get it right 🙂 No need to use an ‘oops’ at all, because that has been paired with a stop in the session/change of body language/reward delay which can be confusing when he has read the cues correctly.
At the beginning of the 2nd video – a small handling blooper and yes, he got the cookie but the change in your body language/voice and stop in the action might not be making it a reinforcement moment.
The next reps had a lot of good-boy energy on the reinforcement and that makes it a true reinforcement for him. Your handling was really clear too! But even if you had a blooper 😁 keep going rather than stop, or give him the “yay!!!” Energy on the reward. I think that will make a big difference for him!!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
I think this went REALLY well!!! I agree, it is a hard hard game – and you and Sprite had a super high success rate. And there were plenty of reps here and she kept processing (lots of brain work!) without changing behavior or tuning out the cues. Yay!
Backside step: consistently excellent! And yes, even when the foot is not the “correct” foot, if the line presented cued a specific behavior (like the backside push at 1:57 showing a line to the backside even though it was the opposite foot) keep rewarding like you did, she is correct.
FC wrap – the very first rep was not quite rotated engouh but then you nailed it on all the other reps. It was a it of a hard behavior for her (coming into that collection from a standstill) but she got it! The slight delay was probably her brain processing the more challenging mechanics of the wrap.
One little blooper:
At :52, I think you had too much upper body rotation as she was coming around you so she mistook it for a RC. That was likely due to a change in your line up position that happened after approx the 1 minute mark on the first side: instead of her being mostly parallel to the jump, she was having to come around you which made the wraps more challenging.The rear crosses were SUPER!!! I have always found those to be the hardest element of this game, and you and Sprite nailed it! YAY!!! Well done!
>>I am trying to use my inside leg for the RC slice. But, if she’s too close to me she’s picked her line before I step.
On. Those slicing rears, you will be in motion the whole time, so she will see the dog-side leg step to the center of the bar followed by the inside leg step. I think that will make it very clear for her when it is in context of a bigger sequence.
>>And, am I supposed to be looking at her? That’s inconsistent.>>
Yes for the rear, yes for the backside push. For the wrap, especially from a standstill, shifting your connection from her eyes to the landing spot worked really well to help her commit with all that countermotion and rotation.
Another step to add here your verbal directionals for each cue (backside push, wrap verbals, or soft turn for the RC is you toss the reward out on the soft turn line). You can release with the directional at the start of each rep.
>>P.s. it looks like the live and the most recent hot topics requires 6 jumps and a tunnel. I can’t get all of that in my cat. 5 jumps maximum. Should I just try one of the pop outs? Saturday might only be in the 80s.>>
You can leave out a jump or replace a jump with a cone or something. For example, on the recent hot topics, the straight line stuff can be done with 4 jumps and the tunnel. Then you can take the jumps after the tunnel and move them over to the bigger sequence, which uses 5 jumps. So you can do little course changes to minimize the # of jumps you need to transport.
Great job here! Fingers crossed for cooler weather!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>t I can’t say that I have ever used a tandom turn on a course. I want to be clear with the puppy.>>
You might use them in some elements of Premier or UKI where you want the threadle-wrap-ish but then you and the dogs turn to the new direction like a U-turn or a rear cross on the flat. They pop up here and there, but the threadle wraps are all the rage at the moment 🙂 but I start with tandem turns in training to introduce the first half of the concept (turning away from the line) then we add in the countermotion of the threadle wraps.
On the blinds: these are pretty darned hard! But soooo useful in spots so definitely worth playing with! And it is a little harder with a small dog because Taq is so fast and also low to the ground, so the connection is harder to establish and see for both of you.
A couple of ideas for you to be able to both tighten the turns and get the second blind in consistently:
I think you were doing a great job of emphasizing the exit line connection of looking back at her to get the side change. That is the KEY element here! To make it even easier, a couple of ideas:
The double crosses rely on quickness of the connection changes – and having your arms out and fully extended sows that down. When your arms are out, you have to reel them in then make the new connection, which doesn’t happen quickly enough for Taq.
So to get quicker: Keep your wings in tight (arms tight to your torso) the whole time. I bend my elbows and keep my hands low and just behind my hips so my arms slightly resemble chicken wings LOL That way when I do the double blinds, all I need to do is turn my upper body to look at the dog – no reeling in my arms. It makes things very quick!
Doing the first blind sooner will help a whole lot too – you were doing it when she got to the wing. Ideally, you start it as she is on the way to the wing, moving up the line. Your continued motion helps commit her, and the upper body changes the line so the first blind is done before she arrives at the wing – then when she turns her head to come into the gap, you do the second blind. That will give you a lot more time to establish the connection on the 2nd blind!
Here is a visual from a different angle, of both the timing and chicken wing arms:
>>I forgot to use my verbals.>>
Yes – or sometimes you said “go!” So she went in extension. Good girl! Using a left or right verbal on these can help get the collection and your motion will match that with a bit of decel.
The other thing is that baby dogs have no concept that we might *possibly* do 2 blinds in a row like this! The last time they saw this bit of insanity was when we were doing blind crosses on the flat during recalls! So it will take them an extra heartbeat to process the cues. As they get more experienced, it gets a lot easier for them to respond quickly 🙂
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Playing with the threadle wrap indoors is a good antidote for this crazy weather we’ve been having this summer!>>The pointing did help to focus her forward toward the first jump!!>>
Yay! She is getting so good at this skill! She was adorable on the video: processing the cue for a couple of questions then BOOM! She had it and leaned her whole self toward the jump 😁
>> However, I’m still not getting my feet to point forward as much as I think they should be.
When moving into it, you might find that decelerating helps a lot – both to get the turn and to keep your feet straight. Going too fast might cause your feet to go different places and trying to move away too quickly might pull her off the jump.
>> I think I also got a little more distance with the push wrap because I TRIED to not stay and control it.
I thought you were really good about not over-controlling! You left for the next line as soon as you see her turning to the jump. And the threadle wrap did put you a lot further ahead of the push wrap. The push wrap looked great… but you were much further behind than with the threadle wrap.
When you started the sequence: really nice timing of leaving the threadle wrap at 2:04 and 2:39. The easiest way to exit that is to do a blind cross to get her onto your right side. You did a post turn t 2:40 and it got her to look back at 1, which is why the bar fell.
Nice turn cue on the tunnel! I am not sure if she needs you to decel on the tunnel turn cue too – using only the verbal might be very effective and keep you moving up the line.
On the push to the backside at 5-6 (2:11 and 2:46) – one small detail is to have your dog-side arm pointing back to her more and keep it lower. It high and parallel to your torso, so it was blocking your connection which caused her to look at you over 5 rather than look at the line.
Another small detail: You can decelerate into the FC on the backside wrap (at 6). You ran hard into it at 2:12 (and 2:47) then when you did the FC and rotate, your momentum carried your backwards by a step or two and off the line and caused her to drop the bar as you got back on the line. So as you are pushing her forward to the backside, you can also slow down. That will give you better control of the momentum on the FC. Plus, the slowing down (decel!) cues a nice tight turn which makes it even easier for her.
At the exit of the last tunnel – nice blind! Remember to reconnection to get the 9 jump too
On the last rep – SUPER nice job handling the ending dog-on-left and getting the threadle! She read that perfectly!!
>>Felt like I was running and cuing well, and then I looked at the video…more like a T-rex lumbering about waving their hands!>>
NOT AT ALL!!! You were running and cuing well, really connected and with a lot of HUSTLE!!!! This sessions looked lovely!
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
>>Had a hard time getting her out to the blue jump #5 which slowed me down for 6 to 7.>>
Yes – the send to that jump is important for getting the 6-7-8 line. The key was when you kept connection and faced the line longer, she committed nicely. When you raised your arm and turned your shoulders, she was cued to *not* take the 5 jump.I grabbed screenshots so you can see what I mean. On the first one, you had turned too much so she did not take 5, But then on the 2nd screenshot, she saw such better connection and you were facing the line, so she got on it nicely. Here is the link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iM5n2qwHWSKg9v5WuHX_HM-wQpjTny4LaM_qgdir7HM/edit?usp=sharing
>>Do not seem to be able to get the blind in and pick her up on the correct side 7 to 8. Last rep we came close to disaster. Is the way we are doing it wrong?>>
What was happening was that you were a little too close to the entry wing of the backside. So at :21 to :30, you kept connection and she came in front of you, setting up a rear cross to the next line.At :52 – she knew it was a backside but then you rotated your shoulders to your left so she was cued to turn to her left (not to her right) which is why she almost hit you when you stepped in to get the right turn. I think you were trying to get the blind there?
To make it work with the blind, you will want to send her away to 5 and run down the line to the center of the bar of the backside jump (not to the entry wing). Then you will be further ahed before she even gets to the backside – and you can get the blind a lot more easily.
>>I found it harder to get to the blind on the takeoff side, unsurprisingly.>>
Yes, this is a little harder for sure! If you send even further away to 4 and 5, you can get down the line to the BC on the takeoff side:
You got to the BC at :42 but did a spin on the 4 jump which delayed you from getting there earlier. If you send to 4 from far away like you did here then takeoff for the BC, she will find 5 on her own and as she is jumping 5 you can be already starting the blind 🙂 It will feel really early but will work really well 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>is it easiest then to use the same for all contact gear>>
I think 4 on is only good for the teeter. 2on 2off is fine for the dog walk (it is a clear position). It will probably be relatively easy to teach her a running dog walk!
T
For the teeter – 4on. She is too small and light in weight to do a 2on 2off because if the board bounces under her, it will bounce her right off 🙂 So with a 4 on, she can put all of her weight on the board and hold on better when it moves under her.
T
Hi! The weather has been SO HOT this year that maybe Summer Camp 2025 needs to start in April!
>>I tried this, that and the other and Sprite is NOT understanding the RC with one step. She defaults to the backside. If I follow through with another step then she might get it. I’ll try to film later when/if it cools down.>>
Yes, try to get some film! And you can also help her out in 2 ways:
– angle the jump slightly so the RC line is more obvious
– add a placed reinforcement to help draw her focus to the line you want. That can really help jump start the behavior.>>I’m happy to try to plot a handler path, but I don’t think I can upload a photo to this site or a pdf. Is there a way to do that?>>
Yeah, the site is annoying in that any uploads are always too large. So you can put it into a google doc and share the link, or email it to me (agilitydals@yahoo.com) or FB messenger and I can put it into docs!
Have fun!
TracyHi!
I agree – this has been a crazy summer, especially with all the weird weather!!>>(I don’t think Syn, in in in is going to work :)), and then using to cue the entire behavior instead of just the coming in part.>>
Excellent point! What about ‘close close’ or something? Do you use ‘dig dig dig’ for anything?
>>We actually had this distance challenge in 2 of our AKC Open Jumpers runs this weekend and I was thrilled with her committmen>>
Yay! Happy dance!!!
On the video: she is driving ahead really well!!
I think you need to cue forward focus on the jump with an arm point – at the beginning as you moved backwards, it looked like she was holding the stay beautifully but not sure when you want her to look at jump 1. So indicating it by slowly pointing your hand to it can help!
On the straight lines:
As soon as you see her feet up for jump 1… get moving 🙂 You stood still at :16 and :50 as she was approaching 2. She found the line but you want to be as far ahead as possible 🙂
>>The push wrap actually worked better for us because she understood the skill better, although I still need to move away quicker. I’m such a control freak!!>>
Ha! You crack me up! Yes, trust her, don’t be a control freak LOL! And also yes, it is the stronger skill for now.
Push wrap at 1:08 worked well , nice acceleration from you and she drove ahead well!
At 1:32, you didn’t step out as well from the wrap (you stepped kind of to the side) then you decelerated a bit at 1:36 so she looked at you when she exited the tunnel and didn’t take the last jump. One of the things that made the decel more obvious there was that you reached for the toy and kept your arms at your side. On the other reps, your arms were pumping and that gives a lot of support to the forward motion – so keep pumping your arms on the big lines, even if your legs are not sprinting.
>The threadle wrap did not work as well because Syn really didn’t understand the skill. >
Yes, the threadle wraps are a work-in-progress (they are a newer skill) but I think you will find them very effective! One thing that will help is if you keep your feet straight facing the tunnel rather than rotate and face her. The feet face forward and the upper body does all the threadle work (arms/hands/connection/shoulders). As her understanding grows for flipping away independently, you will find yourself MILES ahead of her – that is a huge advantage! So for now, it is perfectly fine to just walk through the threadle wraps as you build the skill, and we will gradually add more and more speed.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
These went well – he gave you a really honest reading of what he was seeing in the handling.On the first video – he was definitely reading the cues correctly, even if they were not what you planned 😁
On the first run: at :10 you were facing him on the jump before the backside, then turned forward so he took the tunnel. Plus, you were blocking the wing a little, which opens up the tunnel more. The verbal didn’t start til he was about in the tunnel so he didn’t hear it in time to make a line adjustment.
It is rewardable! So, even if you are *convinced* he was wrong… reward anyway then watch the video 🙂 so the video will show you why he ended up where he did.
You can see when you did not reward and just stopped moving that he got a little stressed, running in a wide circle.You had a MUCH bigger cue at :26 so he did turn! Yay! Then you turned back towards the tunnel and he took the threadle side of it (also rewardable – he was responding to exactly what he saw).
At :44, he came to the backside really well (note your position pretty far across the bar – nice!!). As he started coming towards the bar, you accelerated forward and looked forward, which pushed him past the bar. Also rewardable 🙂
At :52 you held position at the backside jump longer so he did come in. Yay! You can keep moving like you wanted to on the previous rep (which will help keep the bar up):
For the backside, as you move forward, you can shift your connection and look at the landing side of the jump, and also point to the landing side of it. That will help him get committed.
2nd video – good job getting the FC at the backside! The FC rotation makes it harder to get across the bar, so you ended up moving a bit too far past it and had trouble showing the line to it, so he didn’t take it). O the last run, you got the FC and moved forward to the jump so he got it. Super!
I think you will find it easier to do the blind! You are in great position and it will be far quicker to show the line if you don’t need to rotate your feet! It might feel riskier but if you start the blind before he takes off from the previous jump, you will have plenty of time to show the connection and threadle to the backside jump.
Just be sure that you are running forward the whole time on the 3-4-5 line. On a couple of the reps you were decelerating and facing him, then did a rotation on jump 4 (like on the 2nd run and also at 1:01) That made it harder for you both! On the last run, you ran forward beautifully and he got it really well 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I really struggle with verbals, which cue means what, using the right one at the right time, balance between being a blathering idiot and running completely silent and then concentrating so much on the verbals that I f-up the rest of the handlin>>
This is totally relatable LOL!!! Good news though – the next training package focuses on rehearsing all this specifically so everything goes much more smoothly in the run 🙂
Looking at the video:
The went really well! You were super connected and getting your verbals in!!! I only have subtle details for you to consider:1-2 looked good each time. From 2-3 (backside on 3) you can more immediately run to the backside – for a few steps at :07 and :31 it looked like you wanted the front side them you pushed in to the backside. I think your line at 1:01 was the best of the reps with the clearest line most directly to the backside.
Nice FC on the backside at 4 at :11 and :35 – great timing and connection so the turn was fantastic!
The flip went well!
The first run didn’t quite have enough connection to cue 7, but the next 2 runs were great! Nice BC 7-8 on the 2nd and 3rd run!!!>>would you suggest any different ones for this sequence
The other option on this one is to look for more slice opportunities on the 2/6 jump. For example, you can turn him to his left over 1, slice 2 (a serp) from the other direction so he lands facing 3.
And you can FC 4 like you did then slice 5 to his left (rather than flip to his right) so he is jumping 6 to his left on a slice to 7.
Great job here! Looking forward to seeing how the next one goes!
Tracy
Hi! He is doing great here!
The best reps were when you had a decel into it and less arm showing the circle – let him find the circle based on the decel and initial hand cue. That way he won’t rely on a cue to turn away and can respond to the verbal and initial cue. The decel is to help set up the wrap.
And as soon as he turns his head away and takes the first step to the bar, you can start moving forward – but throw the reward to the landing side to continue to solidify the commitment. He is looking really strong here!!
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>>We are a bit behind because dark early and weather has been horrible so think got too focused on trying to get things done rather that leaving it early enougn.>>No worries! You have challenging winter weather, and we have extremely challenging summer weather… so the class will be extended 🙂 That way we are not fighting the weather as much.
On the video:
>>the amount of movement relative to size is huge.>>
This is an excellent point! So true!!
She is already more confident getting on it! Some of her “shaking” when she is because she is really young and her core strength is still developing. When she is full adult and her core strength is fully developed, it will be much easier for her. Keep going with this very gradually progressing to having no pillows under it. She gets happier with it each time!
Great job :)
TracyHi!
>>Between the trial and 106 temps you will see videos from 5 am!!
Totally relatable… I am often out there at sunrise trying to some time to train the pups!
>>I won’t be trialing for awhile but can maybe go with Ginger to a training yard and work on the fun mommy play away from home.>>
I am sure Ginger would enjoy having a training partner! And also, do you remember the pattern game from Max Pup 1? It is fantastic for getting the pups to engage with us in new environments!
>>I have a question- since it is a 360 wrap I used by backside wrap cue for the first wing. Is that wrong? >>
It is correct! I would recommend using the backside wrap cue for sure.
On the video:
There is a decel element to the circle wraps – you get to the wing (begin sure she can see the wing), decel to let her get past you, then move forward again when she is past you and turning to the wing.
As you decel, you can lean forward a bit so your first step after she passes you is forward towards the wing, and not backward (which puts you a little behind her). That leaning forward to move forward immediately after she passes you will give you the feeling of countermotion in a bigger way.
For example, you over before she passes you at :03 and :18 which pushed her off the wings.
Your timing was much better at :14 and :24, for example.
The rep at :36 was GREAT with decel then moving directly forward, no backward steps at all. Yay! 1:02 really good too!
About stepping backwards – you don’t want any step backwards to delay your forward motion, or to accidentally change her line. At :40 you stepped backwards as she was passing you, so she pulled off the wing.
The threadles are going well! The first set were more like tandem turns where your feet turned with the her to the other side of the wing. The more slowly you moved your arms, the better she got the turn way.
On the other side, the first few reps had too much foot rotation before she got to the correct side, so she had questions. When you kept your feet straight, she got it really well!
The next step here is to cue the threadle wrap with your upper body and send her back to the wing… but keep your feet facing forward so you are not turning with her. That will eventually turn into the masters-level fancy threadle wraps!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, totally normal for 14 month old pups to have changes in focus or arousal… adolescence is a challenging time!
To help him out, build in lots of breaks and decompression into everyday life… snuffle mats, long sniffy walks (where possible, I know it is hard at this time of year), chew bones… and tons of sleep! Adolescents need a ton of sleep.
Also, the neuroscience people tell us that adolescent dogs are *less* sensitive to reinforcement and *more* sensitive to punishment (even if is it withholding reinforcement). Plus, if they are stressed at all, it takes them twice as long as normal to bounce back to baseline. Being a teenager is hard!!
So you can help him out by providing lots of decompression, simplifying things, using crazy high value rewards, and keeping sessions really really short 🙂
And often with adolescent dogs, they might be perfect in training one day… and completely feral the next. No worries! Try to get videos of it and we can figure out how to help him out.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
