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Hi!
The lazy game is looking good here! He was happy to find to find the jump, eat the treat, find the next jump. Easy peasy (but probably not all that exciting haha) I think he only missed one jump out of all the reps?Since it went so well, onwards to parts 2 and 3! And you can also add challenge to the baby level by spreading it all out – try it at 20 feet between the jumps, or more! He is a big dude and will need some space š
His RDW is going really well! I bet he likes the full DW more than just the plank – he really gets to run! Is he a front foot hit criteria or rear foot? He hit the mat on the first 3 reps but the hit was a little different. And on the last rep he didnāt really hit it (left rear toenail LOL!). You might be getting enough speed now that you will want to be ahead to see exactly what he is doing. I try to just stare at the mat from wherever I am – but it is hard to see sometimes!! He is on the right track here for sure.
Have you taught him how to jump off the dog walk, from the up ramp or middle plank, while it is still low? I walk the dog up, then ask them to hop off. Then let him add more speed – the goal is that they know how to safely dismount.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>Never even thought of that possibility! That would be really fun to try! May have to reset this sometime just to try it š This was a really good series of exercises for usā¦..:) Lots of good learning for both us us >
I am glad you liked them! I had fun filming them š And handling that 7 jump from the takeoff side is getting to be a common thing, and it helps us stay further ahead too!
Have fun!
Tracy
Yes, those are the concepts. You can also make the wrap jump into just a wing! That saves space and gets the same challenge going.
T
Hi!
>REALLY appreciate your feedback on these courses. Thank you for taking the time to analyze them and give me the overview.
>Thanks for your thoughts. Sheās such a good girl.
>I agree, she is really fantastic. It is fun to watch the trial videos! The future is very exciting!
>She wrapped the jump after the A-frame correctly, then I stepped in to push her to the jump so I could take off up the line to get the backside after the broad jump. She took the step in and literally ran with it to the far tunnel. I was worried that if I let her wrap the far wing after the frame, she wouldnāt turn tightly enough and Iād have to hang back to correct and be late for the backside after the broad. >
That falls into the category of āalways choose the fastest lineā and then plan the handling – the judge sets it so it is intuitive to the dog and not that hard to get if you take the line that appears riskier. By choosing the safer/slower line, it required you to have to step back in to show the next line. Even if she had not had that question, the step back to the next jump would have made it hard to get up the next line.
>she usually curls towards me out of tunnels, so I didnāt give a turn cue at all and she just went! On a later course, when I thought Iād supported a line out of the tunnel, she did curl in and missed the jump (didnāt get a video of Snooker), and when I supported the same exact line again on Senior Speedstakes (with even more enthusiasm), she missed it again. I am having a hard time knowing when she will curl in and when she will stay out on the line. >
Because she is so fast and still pretty inexperienced, be super consistent and always give the turn or line info that fits the moment, whether you think she needs it or not. You being more consistent will help her be more consistent with the tunnel exits which will make it easier for you both.
>We seem to have a handle on AAC, but UKI is kicking our butts. Iām not used to these big lines and I am really struggling to know when to cue a turn, just use her name, or show her big line support and trust that she will read it. >
UKI is an entirely different game in many ways! To master UKI, at some point you will likely want to limit your trials to only UKI courses for a while (6 months or so, depending on how many trials you do). Maybe after AAC Nationals?
And also cut yourself some slack, it takes a bit of time to sort out the handling needs of these youngsters. The fast, brilliant dogs take a full season or so of trialing on these courses before we can get consistent with handling. You are doing great! Think of each run as data-gathering, to support long term goals. It is fine for UKI to kick your butt for now, because you will lock things in and then be able to nail these courses.
>For the gamble, I slowed the video down to see what happened, and she skipped the whole down-ramp and only hit the contact, so I think that she couldnāt have turned if she wanted to. The Frame and Teeter are both problems when they are in the first run, as she is usually high and doesnāt break enough and goes flying.>
MUSO MARIE DO NOT DO THAT! Eek! 2 ideas for you:
Since Gamblers is often first, save a contact for the end of the run after she has had 15 seconds or so of getting her wilds out on jumps & tunnels, then cue a contact. If she hits criteria, exit for a reward. If not – repeat that line!You can also do this NFC in any class that is first of the day, with a hidden toy to reward right there (or have a helper hold the toy in the ring for you in UKI).
Have you ever done the 10 tunnel game at home to get more arousal and simulate trial conditions when working contacts? I have found that to be effective š
>I hadnāt considered that tunnel an off course at all, so I just trusted that she would curl towards me, as usual, and off we go.>
It is possible that she doesnāt naturally curl in – but rather, does whatever the last thing she saw/heard before the tunnel. That might be why it is hard to predict what she will do sometimes. We should track that to confirm or deny this theory!
>So now my big question is: how do I get even more independence on weaves (and the teeter) without adding pressure to these obstacles. >
For the teeter – is it about maintaining position at the end and not self-releasing? You can do lots of quick bang game or elevator game reps in high arousal, with you doing CRAZY things like running away, dragging/waving toys, etc.
I also do this to start getting independence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2SrQXgta4Y
Then add in more craziness to this too.
>She tends to bail on the last 2-4 poles if Iām moving laterally, but sometimes she doesnāt. I have a hang-up about making her weave 12 poles over and over just to reward the exit, but I donāt know if 6 poles gives her enough time to think about bailing.>
If she was trained on 2x2s or channels, you can do more reps by opening up the weaves – it is easier on her body but the concept is the same (and the reward placement is the same, thrown to the exit of the poles).
>I did a seminar with Alen Marekovich and he warned not to add weave guides or pre-position the toy because then it only LOOKS like they have the skill, but then donāt have it if the support isnāt there. >
He is 100% correct – the wires and placed toy both become context cues very quickly! I personally donāt use wires and only use a placed reward at the very beginning – I close the weaves very slowly while teaching the independence at each step, and throw the reward a lot.
Also, Alen is my Voodooās grandpa š
>So now Iām feeling very conflicted about how to fix these training holes.>
Fix them with concepts (like opening up the poles) rather than high reps, and also make sure you are working in very high arousal as that solidifies the learning better.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
This is really hard for sure! And it takes multiple sessions (and sleep for latent learning) until it begins to lock in for dogs that are more motion-oriented.
She is off to a good start and is very motivated to keep trying and figure out this puzzle.
āI felt really bad that there were errors.ā
Donāt feel bad! Errors are a useful part of learning, and you didnāt get mad at her or anything. Sure, there were a few more errors than we would have liked but games like this do end up with more errors in the beginning stages.
To help offset that, you can use reset cookies after an error – that keeps the dogs motivated but we can really make a difference when we reward the correct obstacle (toy throw and big praise, like you did here)
(You said something about not saying the over cue twiceā¦ You can say over twice or more – the more you say it, the more likely she will process it š )
One thing that helps with the youngsters (you can see me doing it with Ramen the whippet at the beginning of the demo) is to hold the dogās collar, say the verbal several times then release the dog. That helps them process it without moving – easier for their young brains!
You did get low with her and held her, but released and said the word at the same timeā¦ try holding her til she hears the word 5 or 6 times, then let go. That is what you did on the first rep where you held her and she got it right, after thinking about it for a moment.
You can bring a chair out too, easier on your back and knees to just sit! And a frosty beverage too, if it is hot out š¤£š
>Our current distraction is new puppy popcorn aka Aqueus Excited Maize. I thought you would w joy my fav snack name!>
OMG POPCORN IS THE CUTEST DOG IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!! Sooooooooooo cute!! A perfect distraction š We get to raise puppies together again – I am getting a puppy who arrives next week – 3/4 Whippet, 1/4 BC – from 2 of my favorite dogs on the planet. Not as cute as Popcorn, but I am not sure there are any dogs as cute as Popcorn! My previous puppy is from my 2 other favorite dogs on the planet. And now, no more puppies for a few years LOL!!!
Keep me posted on baby Popcorn!!!
Tracy
Hi!
This was a super informative run!! She is doing so well!!>Really proud of the tunnel-white wingless jump (they like to use those hard to see jumps) to the AF line that Indy took.>
That line was great! And your blind cross timing and her criteria maintenance on the a-frame exit – that was IMPRESSIVE!!!!!
>After that, the lines got tight and I think I crowded her a bit but we kept going.>
It was good to keep going!
I think there were 2 separate things happening here:
At :22, the line even with a brake arm was still directly to the yellow jump or to the backside of the double jump. She did turn, but this is one of the very rare spots where you can use a spin! Those 2 jumps are sooooo close together that a fast dog like Indy needs a more significant turn cue on such a tight discrimination.
She also has an understanding on staying on the parallel path to the backside of a jump – that might have played a small role at :22 but I think it played a significant role at :31 and :44
At :31, as she was landing, you were facing and moving along the line that would indicate the backsideā¦ so that is where she was heading. If you watch her head at :32, she actually looks at the backside bar as if she was going to jump it, then sees your motion to the weaves and changes her line to the weaves.
A similar thing happened at :44 where you accelerated on a parallel line so she didnāt take the last jump (might have also been heading for her leash or something there?)
So to get the front side of the jump, turn more š For dogs that know about backsides, those AKC lines require some exaggeration on the turn. And, call her name emphatically (or use a front side of jump cue if you have one – mine is jump :)) I think you were pretty quiet there, so more verbals can help too!
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
>Itās a ācome to me and stay with me until cued otherwiseā cue, I use it for discriminations by giving it then immediately cuing the closer obstacle >
In the context where he had the question, it might be useful to deliver 2 cues simultaneously when you cue the next obstacle if there is a significant turn: the slap is followed by the obstacle cued with a physical turn cue at the same time (brake arm or spin for example). It is possible that it was slap then obstacle then turn cue here, and there just was not enough time in a tight sequence for him to process the turn cue. Thoughts?
Fingers crossed for good ISC courses too!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!!
I am excited to see you and Ellie in action!
And since you are here in the forum, you can post your questions and videos right in this thread š It will send me an email when you post and I will hop in as soon as I can.
Have fun!!
TracyHello and welcome!! Nimble sounds VERY FUN!!
And yes, we do a lot of processing and concept work so we have the handlers move but not always run – then add in the motion more and more š Keep me posted!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
This definitely a hard game (and very useful). Part of the challenge, especially with young dogs, is simply exposing them to the concept that yes, there can be 3 obstacles right next to each other and the answer is not always the closest obstacleā¦ and the verbal cues are what will help differentiate them. So hard! She did well here though – lots of good reps and she was happy to keep trying to solve the puzzle.
I liked how you had your tunnel verbal low and long, hup was short and higher, and the weave verbal was basically in between the others, in terms of pitch and length. That will totally help!
With the young dogs as they get started, I have found that holding their collar so they can hear the verbals 3 or 4 times before moving really helps. They want to move as soon as they hear anything, but sometimes the body is moving faster than the brain is processing the words š so they donāt get the correct obstacle.
Your handling line was helping her at first by turning towards the jump, so you can take that out, I think she will still find the jump pretty easily.
Weave and tunnel were on the same line of the motion so it really did become about the verbal. Perfect! You did add some motion to help at first, which basically showed her the concept of finding the weaves and the tunnel in the mix of obstacles there. It looks like you were fading it out later in the session, which is great!
This is the type of game to let her sleep on for a couple of days (latent learning), then revisit it to see what got locked in š You can also spread the obstacles out more, that might help her differentiate. And you can mix it up to really work the verbals: change the other of the obstacles in the layout, or use only two obstacles at a time: jump versus tunnel, weaves versus tunnel, jump versus weavesā¦ then sometimes put all 3 back together.
She is off to a great start here! Keep me posted on how she does when you revisit this!
Tracy
Good morning! Thank you for the trial runs, I love seeing them!!!
I would say these runs were 95% brilliance and 5% tweak the cues. There is too much brilliance to write about each excellent spot š Overall – fabulous connection from you, and you always fought to hold onto the run and keep her going, even when you got behind on those lines. And you kept going after a blooper without worrying her about it.
She jumped in towards you on all the backside slice stuff here, you really supported her with that! And lots of really great independent commitments too.There were really only 2 things that ābitā you here across the runs:
– contact exits
– Tunnel exitsLooking at contact exits: There was an error at the beginning of MS Agility where she turned to her right after the frame in the opening, then considered wrapping the jump again (another reason I never cue multi-wraps on course LOL!) and then continued to a line elsewhere. I couldnāt see the handling on the video, so I am not sure why it happened – do you remember what your plan was there and what happened?
The other 2 contact exit spots were in the gamble and in MS Agility off the dog walk. In both of those moments, she was not really knowing what the next line was – partially inexperience (especially in MS Agility) and partially not enough info (Gamble). Because she is so young, she has probably not seen a lot of different exits off running contacts yet and probably assumes to go to the most obvious obstacle unless told very early not to.
One thing that will help in the gamble and probably also off the frame in MS Agility is to begin delivering the info for the next line no later than when she reaches the apex of the frame. That way she can exit the direction you want – but it will take some practice so she can maintain her criteria AND make the turn.
The RDW in MS Agility looked GREAT and the weaves were really hidden (least obvious obstacle) so it is a good challenge to set up! A good summer project will be so show her more of the āfind the non-obvious obstacleā off the running contacts and stronger obstacle name verbals – the game posted this week begins that work in isolation and we can add it to the contacts soon too!
The rest of the MS Agility run looked fabulous!
The other questions on the courses all involved tunnel exits! I love finding simple patterns that are easy fixes! On the blooper moments, the info about what to do next was not delivered (or slightly incorrect info was) before she entered (she needs to see and hear it when she is still 2 meters before entering the tunnel). When you gave the info to her? No problems at all.
In Speedstakes 1, you converged after the straight tunnel at :19 and she read RC correctly. Keep your arm down, connect, run run run š
The rest was NICE!Sweepstakes 2 – nice spin in the opening to get the jump and not the tunnel. That is a HARD novice line!
She went on a big line after a tunnel at :25. There was a lot of GO info but no turn info before she went into the tunnel thereā¦ so she took a guess of the big line based on your forward motion.
Your video person said āChoices were madeā LOL! And yes, they were based on the info, good girl! I would much rather have the big fast line at this stage than slowing down and questions.
The rest was great!
Senior Speestakes: here is an example of clear turn info on the tunnel exit and she got it really well at :13!
There was a refusal on the tunnel exit at :18 – you were saying āgoā but also turning and decelerating while softening the connection so she had a good question: go or turn, human? More forward motion til she locks on the jump will get it. I think you were probably still trying to figure out how much GO she needs on tunnel exits – and this one shows that she is indeed paying attention to the cues and handling!
Novice jumping – did she break her stay as you began to look back at her? Be sure to watch her as you lead out š
She had a question on the tunnel exit at :25 – lots of go go go but there was no obvious line out ahead, plus a bit of convergence so she turned away looking for the go line. You can give her a go and then a backside cue before she enters – basically saying āgo straight then fund the backsideā. You might not even need the go cues – the backside cue might be all she needs there.
MS Jumping – really nice job holding on to this twisty course while having to handle from behind for most of it.
Super nice opening!
After the weaves, you did a decel and send into the layered tunnel and she saw you pulling away, which might have made it harder to get the backside after it. You can leave her more in the weaves to layer sooner so you are further ahead on the tunnel exit. Great job getting the BIG connection to get the backside!Music in the SS final was awesome! Crowd cheering was so fun! Great run!
So overallā¦. SO MUCH BRILLIANCE!!
We can shift training/handling focus to the contact and tunnel exits.Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>As for setting him up further from the jump, heās a bit of an ETO dog and also worries about dogs behind him and other things in the environment. Setting up close to the jump and using his āmarkā cue helps him stay focused on the jump (and therefore tune out all the things heās worried about). Iām also suspicious his ETO contributed to this worry when I set him up further away. Heās happy at that distance, so I stick with it!>
Ah! That makes total sense. His āmarkā to the first jump is excellent!!!
>The second run where it was the sequence after the teeter, I think part of it was I had to use a leg slap/attention/come with me cue to make sure he didnāt go in the āunauthorized tunnelā sitting temptingly close right ahead of the teeter. >
There was a LOT going on in that section of the course – obstacles everywhere and needing to get the soft turns which are harder than the other types of turns, in many ways. So then my question isā¦ do you think you can handle without the leg slap or clapping (which you didnāt do here but did elsewhere). The reason I ask is that when I see the slaps and clapping, universally it doesnāt have a really strong effect (in terms of overriding motion) and it also delays the more important info. So I wonder if going directly to your other cues would make the info more effective and earlier?
>Which cue is it? (I did use the right one, jump, but I think I called the next jump hup, and it was just a go on to the A-frame, but my brain was still left behind on āwhat word is that again?ā)>
The week 3 package has specifics about how to run without your brain saying āwait, what word is that again?ā I am looking forward to it because verbals are so useful but also can be so distracting if we are trying to remember them in the moment.
>Busy work week this week, and going camping until Tuesday, then heāll need a bit of recovery after all the hiking and kayaking. Maybe we skip the ISC trial that following weekend and do some training!>
Sounds like a fun weekend after a busy week! And the ISC trial might be fun because you can play with timing of tunnel exits, layering stuff, etc. Who is the designing judge?
Have fun!
TracyWelcome back! I hope you had some time to relax and explore in Germany!
I think this went REALLY well!
> I did the wrong side at first (letās pretend it was jet lag), >
It is good to work both sides and I try to work to the dog’s stronger turn direction at first one these (except in the demo I was deliberately working the weaker direction, in the hopes of getting some good bloopers going LOL!)
The key for Mochi is setting the line parallel to her TW path on these. When you did that? she nailed it. When you did not, and you ran forward for too long? She took the front side of the jump.
For example, on Rep 2 – your physical line of moving forward overrode verbals and hands at :16. Compare the difference in your line/shoudlers/feet when you turned to be parallel to her threadle wrap line at :22! Nailed it!
You set the line pretty well on the other side too, you can turn away parallel to the line even more – exaggerate it in higher arousal situations so she doesn’t miss it.
The timing was good when you did the blind on the tunnel exit – she was seeing the TW cues as she exited. Super!
Now about the timing when you are coming from a jump: you were tending to begin setting the line as she was over the bar or landing from it, so while she did get the TW at :50 and 1:15, it was a little late (bar down at 1:15).
I liked your timing at 1:28 the best! She was one stride out of the tunnel and you were already getting your shoulders turned to set the turn on the jump and then show the line to the TW. Even with the other jump a little in the way, adding pressure on your line, she found it really well! YAY!
The one spot where she took the front of the bar was where you were definitely late starting and you never quite turned to the TW line at 1:04-1:05.
So definitely prioritize getting your line of motion turned to be parallel to the TW line and I bet you will be able to get the correct side of the jump very consistently. And when she gets the correct side of the jump, the wraps are looking great!
Great job here! Have fun at the cabin and happy training as you de-feralize Jimmy š
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the trial runs, I love watching them! These 3 runs might not have been clean but they sure do show that you and Roots have so many fantastic skills! Plus you handle with great connection and you don’t break connection (or at least you didn’t on these runs) – that is awesome and also rare, we handlers break connection all the time LOL!
So these are what I would consider heartbreaker runs, in that they were mostly gorgeous winning rounds except for one damn thing. But, we can work the one darned thing – I like to find patterns in our handling errors (because we humans are consistent with our errors LOL!) and then fix them and then boom! No more errors and the clean rounds will outnumber the bloopers.
Run 1 – really fabulous skills here! He had great forward focus on the first jump – set him up further back so he can be faster through the start lights and have a faster overall time š
On the layered section where he came in towards you:
\> I thought I accelerated well enough after for him to carry on to that second tunnel. Not sure what else I could do.>I have an idea! OK two ideas š
About the verbal: you were saying tunnel, but he might need more of a GO GO GO GO instead of just tunnel. You had the GO happening off the RDW so before he enters the tunnel, give him more GO TUNNEL GO GO TUNNEL and so on š He might even need a “GET OUT” cue to keep him away from you there.For the physical cue: it was one of the only times on this video that your arm came up WAY high (I call it ‘giraffe feeding position’ š ) When you arm comes up that high, it actually turns your shoulders *away* from the line you wanted him to stay on. You can see him look at you as as he passes the jump then decide it must be the closer end of the tunnel.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yX9Pavy7saJyXeIArhABNunlt4OK8m6gjB5iniPOERA/edit?usp=sharing
When we want him to work that far away especially with layering, either keep your hand low so he can see your shoulders facing the line you want (as you maintain BIG connection and deliver the verbals to his cute little face, which also turns your shoulders to the line). Or… use an outside arm to keep him out on the line (I would use an outside arm here for sure). It is the same intense connection, but now the opposite arm points to the tunnel entry you want which turns the shoulders to the line you want.
>! The bars at the end I THINK were influenced by the sun coming in that door. Future trials we will probably close the big back door at the end of the day when itās bright out.>
Totally agree! And the sun might have played a role in his questioning of the tunnel-tunnel line too, requiring more exaggeration of your shoulder position.
On the 2nd run:
>He was probably looking at the tunnel, but I hate having to figuratively wave a giant flag in his face to get him off a tunnel >
I think he was driving the line you had set over the jump after the teeter, which had too much extension and not enough shoulder turn. In your defense, there were all sorts of obstacles in your way so a shoulder turn was brutal to try to show. But a brake arm (handling the jump after the teeter with 2 hands to get collection and override you needing to move into the line) would be very effective there!
You used the brake arm/outside arm at 1:16 very effectively and in a few other spots too, so you can look for these clusters of obstacles where you need to turn him but can’t necessarily rely on feet/shoulders/motion – and that is a great spot for a brake arm (or a spin, as a last resort LOL)
Looking at the tunnel exits on this run and the next run that resulted in faults… it comes down to telling/showing what you want before he goes in. In both spots, the info happened much later so he exited in the wrong spot. Easy fix for both – in the walk through, start telling him what you want on the exit no later than 6 feet before the entry (we have been doing this with Beat :))
> The part after the weaves, in hindsight I should have run the other side and rear crossed the tunnel as the handlerās path supports that next jump better that way. After pushing out of the weaves into the tunnel I had to cut away at too much of an angle to not run into the start jump so he came out paralleling that angle.>
Yes, the physical cue might have had you cut away a bit at 1:30 before he went into the tunnel,but more importantly there was not enugh info about the exit before he entered (this is one of the biggest course trends nowadays in UKI – live and die by what happens after a darned tunnel!) . So in this one, whether you kept him on your left or handled differently, be sure to give big loud cues to GO after he exits the tunnel… and he needs to see/hear the explosiveness of that cue 6 feet or so before he gets into the tunnel. You said jump right before he exited, and there are 2 jumps there š so he abstained and just ran parallel to your path.
> And yet then I got the opposite problem on the next one.>
That was at 2:20 where you needed a turn because the tunnel exit faced the backside of the next jump – it sounds like you might have said “go” before he went in. You did a decel but I don’t think he saw it in time, because it was visible right as his head was arriving at the tunnel.
This is where you can be calling his name (does he have a middle name? ROOTS STEPHEN!!) when he is still 6 feet or so before entering the tunnel. Based on how he turned here, you might even call him with 2 hands up and let him see you turn your shoulders. The name call was quiet and happened after he went in, so he read parallel line to the backside.
Start to look closely at tunnel exits because they are TRICKY on UKI courses nowadays (it was a tunnel exit that bit you on 3 of these here!) and decide what he needs to know, and how you can deliver it emphatically all while he is still 6 feet away from entering.
>Last course was the last run of the weekend and I kind of walked out, went out into the big field and had a pity party and contemplated quitting agility. >
Yeah, it is HARD when you have 95% brilliance and one d*mn thing that prevents the results on paper looking as good as the actual runs. Pity parties and cursing are fine š Based on the quality of the rest of the skills: don’t quit agility, don’t get mad or deflate in the ring, keep powering through it to keep his confidence high to execute those skills and keep going if something goes wrong. And track the errors: 75% of them here were tunnel exit cueing issues (2 of which involved layering), 25% was a missed opportunity for a brake arm. It is less overwhelming when you really only need to fix those 2 things consistently!
And the sequences/courses here, pick the ones with the most evil tunnel exits and let’s get that sussed out before the next trials, because you know the challenges will look similar to these courses.
>Simplest thing: just take the jump in front of you, itās RIGHT THERE. And we couldnāt do it.>
Yes… but also no, there were a zillion other jump options right there which is why what looks simple (darned lines after tunnel exits) were actually the most technical parts of the course! Because another jump is also right there, and the line to the backside of the jump (which would have actually been nicer course design LOL) was also right there. SO being very specific about what you want on the exit (before he enters) will make it all easier!
I think these were great runs overall and I am pretty pumped up to just fix those 2 areas! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>. His enthusiasm for toys is SHORT because he throws so much into killing them! >
Yes, it is expensive behavior to kill things š And my guess is that terrier nervous systems have evolved to do the chase/grab/kill (sympathetic nervous system) followed by rest & digest (parasympathetic), which might be why they lose steam for it quickly. It is not about value or training, necessarily, it is more about biology.
Whippets are also murderers š and my whippet worked for a toy for about 7 minutes this morning – and that is a LONG time for a whippet to work, especially in the heat (he did get breaks, I am not a mean momma LOL). And I am sure he will be in rest and digest mode for the next 8 hours, I probably won’t hear from him other than to potty til dinnertime LOL!! Terriers are more active but any murder-based nervous system is probably going to have a similar loss of motivation (rest & digest) after the initial chase/grab/kill moments.
>With a dog who DOES like toys, but sometimes gets more food focused, do you think a shaped retrieve (which is what both my Rat boys currently have, they both like toys but never really inherently liked retrieving it so getting it back required food) can have a enough of a transfer of value that it can be 1. behavior-> 2. retrieve toy-> 3. food and still be effective as a reinforcer?>
I think it can be effective because we can build behavior with it. It is also extra work – so if you are using it as a bridge while trying to build it as a motivator, don’t be too picky about the retrieve. If they don’t bring it all the way back, or there are lots of rules… then it just becomes another part of the work and not as valuable. But if they grab it and it always becomes a gateway to the food, it is more likely to become valuable.
But it also depends on the dog. in terms of how powerful a motivator/reward it will become. For example, I shaped ball retrieves for all of my dogs – they didn’t have natural ball interest and I also train flyball, so getting them excited about balls is a good thing LOL! For a couple of them, the ball is still just the gateway to getting treats so I rarely use it in training. For a couple of others, though, the ball is now definitely a top notch motivator/reward so I use it a lot!
>I also have a cue for going to play with the hose, which honestly is his true love, so I can play around with that too.>
Fun! Yes, that is something to add in for sure š
>Probably need to be careful using it with nothing else in my hands so the absence of things in my hands doesnāt set the expectation for going to the hose for reward?>
Yes – but as long as you don’t use it only when there is nothing in your hands, and you don’t use anything else when your hands are empty, then I think empty hands will not become a context cue to take off for the hose.
> Because uh, this would be inconvenient in a trial scenario where he MAY just bug off and go for the reward. I *try* to only cue him to the hose after putting his leash on to simulate trial scenarios, but that adds steps and gets annoying.>
Adding the leash is great for the trial scenario, where the hose would be pretty impossible to use for NFC anyway. At home, you can mix in the leash so that sometimes it is food, sometimes it is the toy, sometimes it is leash-then-hose, sometimes it is hose party time. Variety is good!
T
