Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Congrats on your DQs with both dogs in the same height! That is fantastic!!!!!
There are a bunch of good whippet breeders – are you thinking only conformation lines, or are you open to working/racing lines? They are entirely different 🙂
My Ramen came from racing lines:
Jenette Mackey of TreasureChest Sighthounds
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1235745850140319And Sydney Mackey of Synergy:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2033037163798893Tell them that I sent you 🙂
keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi! This went well too – adding the jump was definitely harder for the jump versus tunnel element, but she seems to really have an understanding of the weave verbal. The only time she had a question was when you had a TON of motion at pushed her off the entry 🙂 When you had a little less motion until she was locked onto the entry and then ran – no problem at all.
The jump versus tunnel will continue to percolate 🙂 You can even take the weaves out of it for a session or two (just do a wing wrap to either the tunnel or the jump, setup in the configuration). Then when she is closer to 100% with that, add the weave back in. Fun!!
A new trend emerging that you might encounter is that the dog actually has to veer around an obstacle on her line to find the correct one. This is NOT a trend I like… but it is a trend nonetheless to prepare for. So a future version of this game can have the obstacles kind of blocking each other: can she veer around the ‘wrong’ one to find the ‘right’ one? I can draw it up for you if you like, it is a good autumn/winter project.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Casper is looking good with the jumping work! One thing he was doing here one the slices was really working to lift his back feet over the bar. This is probably because the bar was full height and you were right there, so he was making a big effort not to touch the bar. Good boy!You can add more speed into this process now (even as you fade the plank) but coming from a jump or tunnel, with more motion from you as well. As you add more speed, you can either say the verbal directional or the sit cue – not both. If you say the directional then the sit cue, the sit gets late and then he kind of contorts over the bar (:40 is an example, it sounds like you gave a backside cue then a late sit cue, but maybe I am hearing it incorrectly)
And mix up the rewarding: sometimes the toy is on the ground, sometimes it is the food bowl, sometimes nothing on the ground and you throw it after he lands.
Tunnel/jump discrimination:
For Casper – this was a good way to add in motion on the harder jumping efforts! He did well with that and also going to the tunnel. His only question was right at the beginning: Bearing in mind that ‘tunnel’ is also a forward cue that can mean “take the line to the tunnel”, at 1:01 yo were facing the jump and he landed facing it so when you said tunnel, he stayed on his line. When you turned him, he went to the tunnel really well.
>On Casper, I had forgotten how he jumps into the tunnels; cracks me up.>
It is so funny when they do that!!
Enzo’s session was really interesting! He is very strong when he is on your left side – he found the jump and the tunnel when cued, even when you were behind him. The interesting part is when he was on your right: after putting the jump in play, he was convinced it was the jump unless you were ahead of him and really moving to the tunnel.
What was different about the dog-on-left versus dog-on-right? No difference that I could see, so we can chalk it up to his side preference and your side preference 🙂 This is good to know for trials too – you will need to support with more motion when he is on your right. In the meantime, you can have the jump on the dog-on-right part of the set up even further away. And the jump on the dog-on-left part of the setup closer and beginning to angle back to the original position 🙂
>I think Dawn has a spot for me on Thursday (10/16). Who is the contact for Chicago?>
That is great about Quad Cities! I don’t have contact info yet for Chicago because there are a couple of options, and I haven’t set any of them up yet 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
It sounds like Maisy did really well at the trial!!
>On the 2nd open course I only walked up to the weaves because I anticipated taking her off – held her startline and completed her weaves. Oops, needed to have more faith. Stumbled on for a few more obstacles.>
That is hilarious!!! The dogs always do the right thing when we expect them not to do it LOL!!!
Grace’s session looked lovely! She found the line perfectly – you were throwing the toy as soon as she looked at the line, and I bet in the next session you can wait a little longer so she drives further without seeing the toy in front of her. You can add her jump verbal and as much distance as you can get. She is doing great!
>My main issue is getting her back inside the house so someone else can have a turn.>
Ha! She says no turns for anyone else. You might have to bribe her LOL!
Great job!
TracyHi!
Skipping around is fine, and also it helps balance the games so you are not only working on technical stuff. The tunnel game here is not technical but definitely challenging!I think overall it went great! He was able to ignore the tunnel when cued (see below for the one time he went into it unexpectedly). And it looks like he committed to the wing on the other side of the tunnel really well, especially when you had BIG connection. And I love how well he sent to the tunnel entry after it! Yay!
So the only time he found the tunnel unexpectedly was at :43 – this falls into the category of “dogs see everything” LOL! You had connection then as you passed the tunnel entry, you looked forward a bit and closed your shoulder. That’s the beginning of a BC cue, so that is what he did. Good boy! A rewardable response. On the next rep (and previous reps) you held connection so he never considered ducking into the tunnel behind you.
Great job!
TracyHi! He is off to a good start here! Only 2 suggestions:
– at the start of each rep, you can be closer to the end of the board so you don’t even have to step forward to get the treat in – you are right there to drop it in 🙂 You were a little too far back here so by the time you stepped forward, he was curling in on some reps.
– no need to say yes before delivering the treat, because that seemed to cause him to look back at you. You can either use a ‘cookie in bowl’ marker if you have one, or a quiet ‘get it’ (meaning the cookie is being dropped in front of him), or don’t use any verbal until after the cookie is dropped into the bowl 🙂
> I also have a treat and train if you think that would help?>
The treat and train is really hard to fade out, so it is better to work through getting this with the smaller target (which is much easier to fade out :))
Nice work!
TracyHi!
>Lead outs and big lines 2 lots of disconnecting here not sure what was going on
>It was all about connection here – when you were connected, things went brilliantly! When you disconnected by looking ahead, or pointing your arm ahead… that changed the line he was on. That was when he thought you wanted a different obstacle, or he thought you were starting a blind.
I think “handle with your eyes” will be your new mantra 🙂 Try not to point at obstacles at all – you can point your arm to him when he is behind you, but otherwise keep your arms low and out of the way, so he can see connection the whole time.
I grabbed some screenshots of the blooper moments so you can see what he was seeing!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10gk4SToAhyMobFheJXlU2EWPlnbRhnHm59cMaf6ySjE/edit?usp=sharing
You did reward him, but the rewards were different: he got some quiet praise and cookies if it did not go as you wanted it… and he got the frisbee when things went as planned 🙂 He was slowing down to wait for more info after the cookie rewards, so I think he is perceiving the stopping for treats as a relative punishment, so use the frisbee for all of the rewards. He was being great about reading the cues, so the errors were just little handling errors that he was reading correctly.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>When you see Max turn left after the jump before the tunnel that is because I was trying to use a dead toy for after five. >
Yes, that was hard, especially if the other dogs were near it. Young dogs can be competitive with other dogs for who gets the toy!
> He used to do better with the dead toys but lately he’s just been full of himself and thinking he can go get his dead toy when he wants. >
It might be that things are too predictable with dead toys, and he has learned to look for the line with the toy on it. So it is not really a self-control issue, it is him trying to figure out what you want (good boy!)
For now, it will be easier to run with a toy and throw it – that way he is not confused about when the toy on the ground is available, and also the toy on the ground won’t be a lure for the line.
He did great on the first sequence: fast!! One thing you can add is NOT using your arms as much – handle him with your eyes 🙂 so your arms don’t block connection. He is a small dog, so arms being up near your shoulders can do more harm than help in handling.
For example at 1:07, your arms were up as you moved up the line to the blind – so he couldn’t see connection. And the blind started when he was taking off for 1 (and was finished when he landed) so he was correct to not take 2. Good for you for continuing for another 2 obstacles then rewarding!
On the next rep, your connection was much clearer and your timing was strong, so the blind went really well.
The FC to the throwback on 3 went really well at 1:42 and 2:21!. He turned to his left on the middle rep (reading it as a turn away cue)at 2:01 because you were standing closer to the center of the bar and your arms pointed to the left turn side, as compared to the successful turn at 1:42 were you were closer to the exit wing and your arms pointed to the right turn line.
So overall, he was fast and focused, and you did a great job continuing and rewarding even if there was a blooper 🙂
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
>I feel as though I let Max down.
You totally have not let him down! You are doing great!
>I can’t seem to adjust my handling.
You are already adjusting your handling! I have all the video evidence of that here 🙂 And Max doesn’t mind it when you are late, as long as you keep going and reward him.
>Max and I do in person classes, but I need someone to get after my handling and my teacher is too nice.>
Do you video your class runs? If not, you can start doing it and watch it between turns. That will let you see where you can be sooner! And in class, like at home – keep going and reward him even if there is a blooper.
> I am having issues with him. He has gotten bitey. He doesn’t like being picked up (and never has) but was always okay getting stuff done(except at the vet, where I muzzle him).>
I remember that he was perfectly happy to be near me and get treats, etc, as long as I didn’t try to grab hold of him.
Was the bitey just with the massage person, or osteopath? Part of that could be that he needs more time and treats to get comfy with her and part could be that something does hurt a bit!
> The lady is very gentle with him, but he flipped out last time and she couldn’t even pet him.>
Poor Max, something definitely upset him! He might have something a little painful somewhere. Do you have a back on track coat or anything like that? Or a PEMF bed or assisi loop? All of those can help relieve soreness without having to be worked on by a stranger.
And you can massage him too! I do some gentle skin rolling with my dogs – that helps loosen them up and they seem to enjoy it.
> Anyways, just feeling disheartened today. I was trying to get my terriers AGCH, but we can’t make time in Premier, now problems with Max being bitey.>
It is normal to feel disheartened at different stages of training our young dogs! Sending hugs and support!!! Keep trying in premier, take a lot of handling risks to go faster and I bet you can get those Qs for the AGCH!
And for Max being bitey, tell me more and we can make a plan.
For the agility stuff, focus less on hard or fancy skills – and shift your focus to stuff you will see in his novice runs. That includes getting on lines, driving ahead, crosses, lead outs, and stuff like that. It does not include crazy backsides or threadles LOL!
Tracy
Hi!
Sounds like a fun weekend and the trial & seminars runs went really well!
Looking at the trial video:
On the first run – he did great!I will also point out how well he committed to the tunnel at :17 with a person right there who then took off running right as he got into it. Good boy, Reacher!
And the weird person sitting frozen in the corner, looking away at :23 – that caught my attention immediately and he did look at the person as he ran by. I agree, Reacher, it was weird.
>The first run shown here had me making a major error which was not to redo something. I have no idea why I did that because nothing was on the line and I assumed a refusal was a NQ anyway so honestly why I fixed it was a total brain fade. But it didn’t seem to dampen his enthusiasm, so that was good.>
Yes, he seemed fine with it – fixing very rarely will not dampen enthusiasm, especially when your enthusiasm stays high like it did here. Fixing a LOT or dropping your enthusiasm is where we see the dogs deflate. The run by looks like it was caused by a combination of slightly less connection as you pulled away, and running right towards the weird frozen person staring at the wall.
On the 2nd run – yes, that is a great reminder to re-visit LOEO so he sticks with you when the leash comes off 🙂 And also… why were the ring crew people all looking so weird? Frozen and looking away – that might have contributed to the weave question (along with the feet-on-the-base difference) and also the person at 1:15 – like with the other run, it immediately caught my eye (“why is she being weird? Is that an actual person or a mannequin?”) and he looked at her too.
So in classes – add in having people in the ring being frozen zombies who stare at anything else except the ring. LOL!
Notice how he did not look at the judge when he ran right by her at 1:21 because she was being normal, not weird.
>We were at another training center on Sunday for a mini-seminar and the weaves were right in front of where everyone was sitting at the front of the room and in the first run it was tunnel weave at a place he’s never been before and he nailed those weaves like a champ! >
Yay! And I bet those people were being normal and watching, not frozen ring crew zombies LOL Out of curiosity – was it weaves on matting, or on turf?
>Also on this run he did bypass some jumps and we just kept on going and realized later that that huge toy was sticking out WAY farther than I thought and I imagine that was also pretty distracting for him as I was crossing and running ahead. I was not always connected either, but I’m sure that floppy tail of mine was kind of weird. LOL!>
I think that was all about connection and not the toy. After the BC at 1:27, you took off running but never quite made connection. So he was following the line but you were looking ahead, so he was looking up at you (not the toy). So as you finished the BC, dipping your shoulder down to him to make clearer eye contact will help set him up on the line.
On the flip aways:
The arm movement you did on the first and 2nd reps was great! When you added a little more rear cross pressure to it on rep 3 and re 4, he turned away really well – so the combination of the arm swoosh and a little bit of RC pressure helps a lot, and eventually you can fade out any of the RC pressure on the line and just use arm cues.
He turned correctly but did not get the weaves because you moved away a little too soon for this stage of learning: he looked at the weaves but then decided to follow you. On the last rep, you stayed there for a moment til he locked onto the weaves, and that worked great! You won’t always need to do that, but since this is a relatively new skill, helping support it by staying closer was really effective.
>hen I tried the dogwalk layering to weaves bit. I did only 2 reps of that but forgot to hit record on the first one but he did both reps perfectly. Last time I tried this setup he missed it so I think he’s learning!>
Yes! He did great! You can start to move the weaves further and further away too!
Great job here 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>I had to think about TW for a minute……;) SO much easier than spelling out Threadle Wrap each time!!>
Ha! I am just too lazy to type it all out LOL!
> Hope you don’t mind but I used Pop Out 2 with some of my students this week and asked them all to come up with 2 different ways to do it. They had a blast with it and one of them came up with a way I never thought of!>
Yay! I am so glad you are enjoying them! Which way did the student come up with to handle it differently? I love seeing all the different perspectives.
Video 1:
This went great! The TW was spot on – he didn’t need to look at you or add strides, he just went to do the TW. Yay!
On the 2 full runs, great job with the independent backside on 3 – the 2nd run was even better because you were closer to the exit wing when you cued it at :48, then past the exit wing and on the takeoff side before he took off. That got a great turn!Great timing on the send to the wrap, and great timing on the TW cues too. And he nailed that hard weave entry both times!
Video 2: fun to see it all these different ways!
The wrap on 6 will be very similar in timing, regardless of handling choice, because the line for the dogs should be basically identical. Getting the FC on 4 required you to get up there sooner to show him it was a wrap – the bar came down on the first run with the push wrap because you hadn’t decelerated into it. The 2nd rep of that looked great!
The threadle slice will almost always be faster on the line from the slice jump to the start of the next obstacle. Where it might not be faster is on the line that comes after it. In this case, it was probably still faster to the weaves. In other contexts, the TW or push wrap might be faster because of how it sets up the next line (with the TW being faster because you are further ahead and he can chase you :))
Pop Out 3 went really well too! The only small blooper was the bar down at 4 on the 2nd run – you were a little late there, starting the decel after he was already choosing the takeoff point for the jump. On the other reps, you were a stride or two sooner and he saw the decel and wrap cues starting when he was exiting the tunnel and before he passed you.
> To the left made a nice line to 9 but not as nice to 10, and it was a longer dog path. To the right wasn’t as nice a line to 9 but it was a great line to 10…and overall a lot faster>
Yes! This is exactly why we time so many different options! Small & medium dogs can often get significantly faster times on a wrap because the distance is shorter! I thought the slice to the left looked lovely! But the shorter distance to the right won the day, because the distance must have been a lot shorter even though the turn was harder. That is good to know! And I agree that the line to 10 was better going to the right on 8.
>We must be getting close to the end of camp, seems like I read somewhere that last day for posting is soon. Just wanted to say thanks for another wonderful Camp. Sly and I both learn a lot and have fun doing it!>
Yes, the last day is September 2nd. August really flew by! Than you for coming to camp – it is always so much fun to watch you and Sly. And it is super cool that you could do all the high level stuff and focus on the fastest possible ways through a sequence. Great job!!!
Tracy
Good morning! Sounds like you had a great vacation! And great weather to come back to makes it even better 🙂
Looking at Enzo’s session:
It started off so great!!! Then once the jump was in play… it became all about the jump and he needed a lot of handler support to the tunnel.
I was really happy with his jump discrimination work with all the different verbals. You were really good about not giving too much help with the handling (you were basically just moving forward, which was great) and he did well! A question here and there about wrap versus slice but without any handling input other than verbal? He was pretty darned successful!!!
>My thinking is to spread it WAY OUT and work on just TUNNEL until he can go straight to the tunnel when the jumps are only 10 feet apart (reminds me of working on obedience go-outs). Unless you have another idea…?>
Yes, that is one option for sure!!
2 other options:
Rather than spread the distances out, you can turn the 2 jumps 90 degrees so the jump bars are parallel to the tunnel (they are perpendicular here, if my caffeine is hitting correctly :)) That can make it easier to pass them, and also you can do simple balance reps where he can get a send to the jump in between the tunnel cues.Or, you can spread it out a little and move the tunnel a lot closer, so it is almost in a line with the jumps. It is possible that it was further away, so he was choosing the jump based on the proximity to the line and to you.
I don’t want to work on the tunnel only because then we don’t know if he is learning to discriminate, or just doing a bunch of tunnels in that session. Throwing in a jump here and there will let us know if he is processing verbals or just doing what he did before.
Casper did well here too – yes, bringing the jumps in closer was a big change so he had an error. But the occasional error is fine as long as there is not something else in the cue creating it.
What I mean by that is if he sees a physical cue that is different than the verbal cue, he is likely to fail at this stage. At 3:06, your physical cues were all saying “backside wrap” as you started moving over to the wing/bar area before you released him. The verbal said tunnel but that was not enough to override the motion towards the backside wrap positional cue. He did get the tunnel but keeping the physical cues more neutral by just walking forward on a straight line will get rid of his question here.
>Also, on the backside plank jumping, Casper is removing the “sit” by himself. I’m thinking that is not a very good idea.>
Ha! Yes he was 🙂 The good news is that he is well-organized with his jumping and also seems to be using his core really well too!
So if he is not going to sit and you are going to release after saying ‘sit’… better to not ask for the sit. You can sometimes ask for it but then definitely maintain it so he does sit. And sometimes don’t use the sit verbal, just use the directional and he can power through. It is a good mental challenge for him too, to listen for the different verbals!
>I want to eliminate “SWITCH” over a jump for Casper and use DIG/CHECK the same as RIGHT/LEFT. He is only starting to get that.>
Sounds good to me! And yes, he is only just starting to figure it out but he was definitely sorting it out really well. A few errors are fine because they can be very clarifying for the dog. One thing I do is use 2 toys: One is on the ground ike you had it here, the other is in my hand. The directional that turns him away gets marked with word to get the toy on the ground (I use ‘get it’). The directional to turn towards me gets marked with the word to get the toy in my hand (I use ‘bite’). This can help him learn the difference without relying solely on a placed reward.
>Before I forget: what is on the agenda for the fall/winter? I missed getting a working spot one year and don’t want to do that again.
> We definitely want to get you into a working spot!!! In mid-october, I will be doing a Tues/Weds/Thursday at Quad cities in Iowa (Dawn Ecker is the contact). Tuesday 10/14 is masters level, Weds afternoon 10/15 is novice/open coursework, Thursday 10/16 is masters/international without contacts.
There might be something in the Chicago area the weekend after that but I haven’t planned it yet 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
Really strong session here! Her weave entries look really good on both sides (I think there was only one blooper?) so one option for a future session is that you can keep moving the wing down the line towards the center of the poles so she is seeing progressively harder and harder entry angles.
And separately from the harder entry angles, you can add in the countermotion on weave exit and entry. On these reps, you were mostly paralleling the weaves so now the challenge becomes: can you run past the exit to the other side while she is weaving? And can you do the RC on the entry as she is hitting the entry? Both are useful skills for upcoming adventures 🙂
>Had to move the jumps back because she kept selecting jumps over the tunnel.>
The tunnel is really recessed on this setup, so I can see why the jump would make more sense to her. So another option for training is: get her past the weave to the tunnel without as much handling help and more emphasis on the verbal only. You might need to tweak the setup a little so the tunnel is less recessed and more visible, but then you can’t it back to its original spot here… and then add the jump 🙂 As long as the jump is not on her line to the tunnel, it works out to be a great 3-way discrimination.
This is something revisit here and there in the coming months (and indoors in the winter) because it is such a common challenge on international courses lately.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
The blinds are looking good with the earlier toy throws! Remember that you need to keep moving too 🙂 so he is not ignoring decel in favor of running to a toy, so keep running forward to the toy after you throw it.
>He still had some problems with the bar on the FC – and it was an actual FC this time.>
The bar questions looked to be a question about conflicting indicators: for a wrap, he would need to see decel or no motion forward when he is at the previous jump to cue the collection.
On the 1st FC, as he was approaching jump 2 you had almost no movement forward into the FC – instead, as he was at 2, you began the wrap cues. That went really well!
On the other FC reps, though – when he was at 2 you began moving forward and gave him a bit swoosh into the FC jump. So that movement indicates extension over the jump and not wrap collection, so he was jumping too long and dropping the bar each time as he was trying to figure out where to go next.
So if you are moving into the cue, yo will want to move forward until he takes off for 2 then decel/stop moving to begin the collection cue. The opposite was happening here (you were stationary til he took off then you started moving to 3) so he was not getting the same info as he did on the first rep.
The bar stayed up nicely at :59 and 1:02 on the lead out push when you moved and threw the toy straight because it matched the extension cues you were giving. Yay!
Looking at the grid:
>I think I got the toy placement better. He was good on the the first side. The second was a real struggle for him. We had just come outside – he was not tired.>
The toy placement looked good!! And yes – when he was on your right, he looked really comfortable. When he was on your left… that was more challenging for sure! To help him out on your left, you can make the jump angle easier by moving the outer wings in closer – the line will be easier to see. For now, he can have reps on the flatter angle you had here when he is on your right, and then left side reps can be on the easier jump angle. It will even out pretty quickly.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Way back when I first started in agility (25 years ago), I had a little BC mix rescue girl who was “slow.” But she would Q almost every run. Those were the good old days. And perhaps one reason why my handling needs help now.>
That is so relatable! Definitely the good old days 🙂 My first agility dog would Q a lot and come in 1 or 2 seconds under course time. It was so much easier to handle and we didn’t need 30 verbals LOL!!! It was a true badge of honor to be able to run silently.
Fast dogs can definitely mean fewer Qs in the early days of their career – but it is still fun and then when the teamwork gets smooth, we end up with the speed *and* the Qs 🙂
>But back to Ellie – I assume she will be “slower” when I raise the bars some. >
You will have more time for handling in some ways – more hang time over high bars for sure! But with higher bars, she will land further from the jump so on most distances in AKC, for example, she is likely to land, take one stride, then take off. So the timing of the next cues would start as she is at the previous obstacle. But it gets easier as you both run more sequences together.
>And I am now wondering when I should start doing some sequence work at a higher jump heights.>
She is around a year old now (or soon), right? And it looks like she was jumping 12” in the last video? You can start working the bar up to elbow height for her, which is probably 14 or 16 inches. That can take a few weeks. Then over the next few months you can work up to 20 inches – I tend to not get bars to full height until the dogs are in the 18 month range. This is because at a year or even 14 months, they are simply not physically developed enough and also they are still adolescent in their brains – so coordination is not in place enough to have good jumping form without risking injury. I know you will see a lot of dogs running full height at a year old or early teen months! But that definitely goes against veterinary advice from the sports vets and rehab professionals, who prefer we let brains and bodies of the dogs grow up before asking for full height jumping. All of my dogs debut in agility at a lower jump height.
> I am a little worried that she is going to have bar issues because she likes to get low and go fast. I know I would not want to work skills at higher jump heights yet. But maybe a jump grid here and there? Curious to know your thoughts on this.>
So far, I don’t see anything concerning with her jumping, she is looking good! But yes, doing some jump grids is good too. I have used set points to help introduce the concept of the bar being raised, as well as balance grids. Have you done grids with any of your other pups?
Have fun!
Tracy
