Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! This is exciting!!!!
She was definitely more comfy on the 2nd day! So the leash tugging returned. I wonder if she was simply doing mental calculus on day 1? I see that in my dogs too. For example, when Ramen is working hard mentally, he does not tug on the leash. When he is relaxed and ready to go fast (not doing calculus :)) he grabs to leash to tug. It is good to know!
She was her normal tugging kill-the-leash self at the beginning of the run. And the run was GREAT – she actually saved the line in 2 spots, where there was a slight lead change away. You can step in closer to those spots to help support her – walk the courses looking for them because they are a really popular AKC trend (subtle but definitely there!)
This was basically a real run, the toy was on your person but basically uninvolved.
So the next step would be to leave the toy outside the ring so she can experience that delay.
Also, what other obstacles are ready to go into the ring – any contacts? You can add them in if she is running them in sequence in practice.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Had a training party with some friends today and Beat got to hang out while other dogs ran.>
So awesome! And what a lovely facility!!!!
>She’s definitely turned on by watching dogs running these days, but she was still able to do her pattern game, some hand touches, and sending to a Klimb all on leash. >
Super good girlie!!! Both of her breeds are wired to respond to visual stimuli, so if she was NOT interested in watching other dogs than I would be worried LOL!!! And your choices of the pattern game, touches, send to Klimb are excellent for learning how to be around “action” without getting involved in that action 🙂
>Towards the end I even did some sit stays and releases to a thrown cookie with the leash dropped and she was great. So YAY!>
What a good girl. This is so wonderful to have her get such a great exposure to other dogs working.
>I wanted to get your take on allowing dogs who get very visually stimulated to watch the action. >That is a very good question LOL!! I am NOT a fan of having a dog, especially a young dog, on a station with a toy in its mouth watching other dogs run dog sports (or at the end of a leash, or behind a tunnel or under the a-frame, or running laps around the field, etc etc). I’ve got about a zillion reasons why I don’t like it, but mainly it is a waste of the dog’s bandwidth, jacks their neurotransmitters unnecessarily, and can lead to depletion without any gains in impulse control. I also think it leads to a whole lot of frustration which leads to a cascade of other things we don’t want.
Plus, adolescent dogs simply don’t have the brain development for simply watching. The part of the brain that is responsible for driving good decisions is not nearly as formed as the part of the brain that drives the impulsive decisions 🙂
But we do have to expose them to being in that environment and teach them how to function – so I teach a lot of the different pattern games (back and forth, up and down, and super bowls are my 3 favorites). And when those games are fluent at home, they can go on the road to add the arousal regulation elements in – eventually being ringside while other dogs are running. This includes ringside at flyball, which is probably the most stimulating sport to be ringside (visual, auditory, etc).
I build it up to a game called ‘engaged chill’ where they can be ringside, ‘watching’, but by then they have so many tools for arousal regulation that they don’t lose themselves to arousal, don’t get punished, etc.
And all in short bursts with young dogs, because this is very mentally expensive and we don’t want to deplete them.
>So far with Beat I can see that she does find it highly arousing and she could end up over threshold if I allowed it for too long a duration, but so far she can watch quietly and is still responsive to cues and will happily leave watching to work with me when asked>
Part of that is early adolescence/late puppyhood (it is a lovely stage :)) and part of that is the associations of watching the other dogs and the excitement are not fully formed in terms of behavioral expression. So… help her out with the tools like pattern games, rewarding when she automatically checks in with you, etc, to keep this nice behavior 🙂 Eventually you will be able to drop the leash or take it off with no problems or concerns.
>I know people who have actually put watching on cue and will use it as a reinforcer. Opinions on this? >
Meh. LOL!!! This is all good stuff to think about, though. If I needed watching other dogs as a reinforcer (or stimulator, which is actually what many people are using it for), then I would probably want to figure out *why* I needed it as a reinforcer in terms of why the other things were not valuable in the same way. A true reinforcer involves a dopamine spike (not everything is a true reinforcer) and I am not sure I want the dopamine spike for looking at other dogs moving – dopamine spikes are following by the reuptake/degradation which is some ways creates ‘pain’ which is where the motivation to move more to get the dopamine spike again comes from – so using watching as a reinforcer can very very easily lead to moving towards the thing they are watching which could way too easily become chasing (reward systems in the brain and motivation involve movement).
So it doesn’t make sense to me, in terms of how reward systems work in the brain. I will keep thinking about it and see if I can think of any reason why it would be useful outside of not having any other valuable reinforcement.
>With my terriers I have always felt that it just wasn’t a healthy place for their brains, but maybe different for herdy types?>
Agree! I think it is an unhealthy place for herding brains as well. Or any type of brains 🙂 And as far as I know, there is no decompression/reset that is associated with watching exciting things move, so there is not a lot of value there. There is a definite ramp up in arousal associated with it though, but not in a direction that I think is useful or healthy, as you mentioned.
I just think we see different expression of behavior in different breeds – and for a breed like a BC, people find the expression of behavior that comes from this to be ‘acceptable’ – staring, lunging, toy shaking, overarousal, etc. A JRT or Malinois or Rottie doing that behavior would be looked at very differently, right? So many reasons NOT to do it – the HPA axis/arousal systems, resilience/recovery, decompression, depletion, etc.
You ask great questions – keep ‘em coming!
Onwards to the threadle slices –
This was a good session! I think she was just doing mental calculus: hard skill (driving in close to the handler to then do a lead change away is HARD) plus new environment (HARD!)
So for the left turns, she might have needed more room to get in between you and the jump, maybe a treat for coming all the way in before the toy marker. You were pretty close – she did have room to fit, but in the early stages she couldn’t quite get herself into the pressure of the gap. On the other side, you had moved over a bit from the wing so there was more room, which worked better, plus the toy was in your hand on the first rep so it was a shade easier. She still told you it was hard by jumping up on you at 1:37 (I get clacked at when it is hard, so the pups all have their own “this is hard!” behavior )
But she worked GREAT in the new environment and she had many many options for other behaviors – and she chose to do threadle slice calculus 🙂 Yay! Let her sleep on it and in the next session, adjust your position to give her a tiny bit more room on the left (and start with a cookie or two for coming all the way into the threadle side) and I bet she nails it 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
A whole week! I am glad you are feeling better!!!>My biggest challenge with left and right is calling the right word. I’m often calling a left when sending her to the right. Dang Dyslexia! Just short of drawing a line in chalk with the word, I’m not sure what more I can do about that.>
What I did to get the left & right solidified was to take about 10 seconds before each rep to first point out the direction I wanted the dog to go, then look at her shoulders – is that her right shoulder or her left shoulder? Then I said it a few times out loud LOL! That really helped me – trying to remember it just from my own brain was very hard 🙂 but lokoing at the pup’s shoulders was much easier.
The tunnel recalls are fun! For now, if you are adding stuff at the exit of the tunnel, I recommend a verbal before she goes into the tunnel – a turn cue or go cue or obstacle cue. If you are quiet, she will look at you which can make it harder to keep her out on the big huge lines she will eventually be running on. For the recalls, you can call her and don’t have a jump in place – you can add handling on the flat like blinds and decels, etc. And if there are people or other dogs around? The tunnels as recalls are a great way to being teaching her to ignore all of the other stuff around 🙂
She did well with the Minny Pinny! Very nice reward placement! At this stage, this game is not a turn away game (everyone has turn-away on their mind from the threadle wrap work LOL!) so start each rep with her at your side and facing the setup. The mechanics of turning away into the Minny Pinny are really hard for the dogs at the age (they do all sorts of funky lead changes like she was here) so you will want to wait til the going forward through it is more solidified. She is happy to do it faster, but she was slipping a lot here with added speed (the mats make it hard for her to go fast and not slip). So to protect her shoulders, and rather than let her rehearse slipping/ticking the bumps or have her learn to compensate with different mechanics, keep her nice and close for now. It will be very very easy to add speed when she is not on mats.
And great job adding your left/right verbals!! It gets easier as you practice it more and more, and it is totally worth it to have them 🙂
She is really doing well with her line up get! She is offering a down a lot, but we can help get the sit more consistent by now going to the next level: You can move her to the mat like it is a start line, cue the sit, then lead out (like a start line). And you can place the mat in front of a jump or tunnel or anything tempting and exciting.
Since she is pretty solid with stay behavior already, our goal would be to have you be able to start moving away faster and faster, building up to a running lead out. Visualize when she is grown up and running one of those huge ISC or UKI courses: she is in a stay and you start to run, so you are releasing on the run 🙂 Start with a fast walk and then build to jogging then running – it might take multiple sessions because you want to set her up to be very successful with very few failures.
>Rocking Horse is absolutely her favorite game>
Yes, she is great at this game – such a lovely balance of going fast but also paying attention to cues! Yay! Next steps here: add your verbals 🙂 You might need to do a quick walk through to make sure you have them ready, because trying to get them out while she is running is hard at that speed 🙂 And you can add in the reverse spin, to make sure she understands the mechanics of it.
Great job on these!!
TracyHi! I am glad you are enjoying it!
MaxPup 2 will start in March, dates TBD – I am waiting for other dates to get posted and for the weather to improve a bit so folks can work outside more 🙂
Stay tuned!
Tracy
Hi!
He was fabulous here! Sounds like there was more activity (noise) in the environment than usual… but he was perfect in his attention and engagement with you.
He seemed to have no trouble finding the ‘in in’ tunnel entry, even with the wrong entry right next to him and the toy behind him. SUPER!! That lat rep was hard, but he was lovely!
Since this went so well, you can move to the next step, the double whammy – I think he will enjoy getting to do the tunnel twice in a row and it will be a good challenge with even more motion and speed.
Great job here!
TracyFAST before the run:
I love that he was barking at you!! She was ready to roll!!
And HOLY SH*T she was ON FIRE in the run! I don’t think I’ve ever seen you run that fast! WOW!!!! And she was tugging?!?! Super!!!! Love it!!!JWW – great job with the warm up. It looked pretty much like what you do at home and she looked relaxed!
HOLY COW she was amazing here too! You had to HUSTLE LOL!!!! Great job – beautiful connection from you and didn’t over-help or over-manage things… she was flying! Love it!!!! The drop and go might take some pressure off at the start line. What a nice run!!!
Standard was also super nice!! You were super connected and supporting the lines perfectly, she knew exactly what to do and did it confidently. The only thing I see on this run was possibly. Bit of physical fatigue. She was really extending in the 2 earlier runs, so her striding ws not s powerful on this run. Her head seemed 1000% in the game, but she was more tired perhaps? So we can look at more warm up and cool down stuff for her body – what stuff do you already do? And does she have a back on track coat?
Great job here! I loved the energy on the runs from both of you!
TracyHi!
She looked amazing!!! It was pretty much a real run til you brought the toy out – nice!!! A bit more push out needed from you to cue the jumps that she missed, but otherwise I think she did really well and you were super connected!!! The start line looked super solid and the rear cross went well too! Yay!
And your pants were perfect!
>She had zero interest in the leash today. It was a different leash than we’ve been using lately, but she’s been tugging on different leashes.>
Dogs are interesting! It might have been that the leash you had was not enticing for whatever reason or she didn’t need to tug? She had a lot of cookies right before the run so maybe she was in cookie mode? Hard to tell, but you can ask her if she wants to tug on the leash and it is fine if she says ’no thanks’.
It would be fun to get her into some UKI Speedstakes or USDAA jumpers where she can run full courses with jumps and tunnels and no weaves! I think she is ready for that.
What that her only run? Does she have more tomorrow? You can wait longer to bring the toy out and see how she does! Or if you have more than 1 run, you can try a short blast with no toy and see how she does 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
>I trained by myself at Fusion on Friday morning and figured out how to turn on the music streaming service (whatever it is – I don’t do apple devices!) so we at least had background music on fairly loud (plus Kaladin chiming in to protest his incarceration). >
Perfect! Some good background noise is a good thing.
>I made sure to give her more time to settle and reconnect on leadouts before releasing and it went well with some short sequences testing turns out of tunnels and some layering.>
All good, I am sure she did great.
> I did two short 2×2 sessions tossing cheese and discovered I can’t hit the dish worth beans (or i hit it and it bounces out). >Then she got confused looking for cheese in the dish and missed where it actually was so I picked up the dish and just worked on marking and tossing as early as possible so she wouldn’t head check. >
Yes – early throws are great too, and you can throw a lotus ball or treat hugger too!
>I can’t remember – were the channels a track to try concurrently or should I go further with 2x2s before trying some channels? (Fusion has both and way more room than I do inside at home)>
I start them concurrently and at some point, the dog tells us which they prefer to get the finished product.
>In regards to pacing: This is an on-going thing that we’ve been keeping tabs on with her rehab sports med vet and massage therapist.>
That is really interesting! It could be maybe something tight that she works through in the moment? So hard to know!
>I’ll ask the class on Tuesday to be more rowdy! >
Yes! Tell them to have a party! People are too polite, they can be noisy 🙂
>I think I will also start asking her for more complicated handling in the group environment so that her actual NFC run(s) can be super simple at 4in and basic.>
Perfect, as long as the rate of success stays nice and high, and she can still get plenty of opportunities to run run run 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
I think this run went really well overall! More on the ring crew moment below…
>Chill and volume dial is going well outside the ring while waiting – unfortunately, the volume dial pretty much disappears once we go into the ring.>
That is fine, he might be one of the ‘all business’ dogs at the line in the environment. I couldn’t see everything before your run here, but he had a great lead out and opening! So you might find things work best when you do all of the games outside the ring, then all business to the start line to start the run as soon as possible.
>All 3 runs we had the pleasure of running after dogs that would non stop bark during their runs – definitely not helping our chill!!>
He did well here, though! He has experience from class with the barking dog scenario 🙂
This was our standard run, did loose him to the ring crew in the corner for 10 or 12 seconds, he just about got in the poor woman’s lap. >
One thing I suggest when he leaves to visit ring crew is that you keep running the course, without him. Handle your invisible dog. Switch to Cody 🙂 But keep going, running away to the next line – ignore him visiting and carry on as if he is still running. What the dogs do is they notice it and run to catch up to the handler. This greatly diminishes the visiting. Stopping and calling him doesn’t quite work 🙂 so try continuing without him. Try it in class first so you can see how it works – set up a tempting ring crew person and when he visits, take off on the next line but don’t call him. People will think you are nuts, you can blame me LOL!!! I am super pleased with how well this works, especially with hunting/sporting breeds!
> pretty good after that, ignored the corner person fairly well the next time he passed her.>
He was great! And part of that was you turned and ran to the tunnel on the next part, you didn’t stop or try to manage it. He looked at the ring crew person then continued chasing you up the line.
> Short FEO runs away from ring crew to me seems like it’s just avoiding the issue.>
It can’t hurt, but it doesn’t necessarily directly address the issue. He is very close to being perfect, it is just the ring crew thing. So try continuing the course and see how it goes! Don’t fix things or run for Qs if it happens, just keep going and when he catches up, keep doing the course.
> FEO runs with mid run toy play, would be nice, but it’s not Coal’s thing. He does happily chase tennis balls and tugs in house in or yard or up at the local school, but unfortunately it disappears in the trial environment>
Have you tried a tennis ball in the trial environment? UKI and USDAA allow for thrown toys, so that is something to try!
Anyway – I think it is fine for him to tell us that he is all business at the start line 🙂 and also let’s see how continuing the course without him goes 🙂
Nice job here! Are you trialing on Sunday?
TracyHi!
>Maybe we can all go to New Zealand, at least we wouldn’t have to buy the whole island….. haha>
I looked into New Zealand… you either have to be really rich or have a super skill that they feel adds to their community or economy. I don’t fit either criteria so New Zealand is out LOL!
Threadle versus serp went great! The wings were no problem at all. For the verbals, yes, you fixed it on the first threadle rep 🙂 And you can call his name for the serp (or use a left or right) to help differentiate the threadles as well.
Question – how is his stay going? We can add a stay to some of these games! And using a platform to help with that for now is great. The stay will be helpful for when we add movement to this 🙂
He did well on the Minny Pinny too! The distances were fine for the bars, he was bouncing with no trouble. The touching of the bars were mainly due to, with this being a new skill with wings and bars, the reps needing to be a bit ‘cleaner’ so he doesn’t have to watch you as much.
You can be quietly saying the left or right verbal, but don’t praise or say a reward marker – he hit the middle bar at :03 when you said get it.
Then on the other reps where he touched the br, be sure he is lined up facing the set up before you send him to it. He was a bit sideways on those reps, so touched a few bars and was looking up at you.
It will get easier as he gets more experienced, but for now, make every rep super clean and precise so he a sort out his footwork.
Keep me posted about the threadle wraps! The visual of the food bowl target to turn away to will help on the barrel, because it basically teaches the dogs that ‘when mom does the things with her hands, I turn away” 🙂
And yay for the super conformation practice!!! He is such a good boy 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi! This session went super well! Very nice job progressing it from just the wings, to adding the bumps/bars, to adding the verbal! Yay!
She had no trouble with the concept at all and did a great job! She does sometimes want to start without you so you can line her up with a cookie so you can be the one who starts LOL!
>After we started I angled the jump bars in a little. Does this look about right? Ginger is about 16″. >
Angling the bars in was definitely the right move. It is hard to tell if the new angles were just right – she was slipping on the carpet a bit and that was causing her to try to adjust her striding.
At home, you can try moving them in closer to see if that helps her bounce more consistently? And then when you get onto turf or dirt or grass you can open the distances back up and see how she does.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>Sometimes it’s easier to get the dog to follow directions than it is humans LOL. All I asked them to do was to stand on the blue dot I placed. >
It was brilliant of you to bring a dot for them to stand on. Smart!!! VERY clear instructions… but humans are challenging LOL!!!
Run 1 – ah, this is definitely hitting the challenge right on the head! It was HARD! He did well with the hand touches, so you can keep those in for sure!
Once you got him going though, he did great, even running past the leash runner.
The person in the 2nd video was correct that he needs to see more distractions…. But not quite yet. Humans are challenging LOL!!!! Poor Coal, he was amazing, she walked over his tail! I think he was happy to release off the start line to get away from the distractions LOL!
He ended up off course at 1:28, but that was a handler blooper (not enough connection and you were right near the off course jump) – keep going so he doesn’t get distracted. Much better at 2:43!! Super clear connection there.
He did a ‘peace out’ and took off at 1:58 when the leash runner approached him very forwardly. I mean, it as weird LOL! Then he felt she was toooooo much – big shake it off, having trouble sitting, etc. If you see him do that, you can ask her to stand on the blue dot 🙂
>Keep going like this or back it up a bit – make it easier?>
I think going with your plan in video 1 was spot on – definitely challenging but not toooooo challenging. The additions from the helper in video 2 were too much, so you can blame me if you tell people not to get as close to him LOL! So definitely keep gong with the video 1 plan – he made great progress!
Nice work here! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi! Thank you for the update!
I think the cold weather might be putting them on edge if they are having issues… not enough of an outlet for their energy! Fingers crossed for warmer weather ahead.
>.one of them was tunnel threadles – she nailed the one to her left but really struggled with the one to her right>
That was probably the harder side for her. I am curious to see how she does after sleeping on it -the mechanics might solidify in sleep, as crazy as it sounds LOL!
>We are now splitting a private lesson with another young dog with Lo every other week, mostly I wanted to see if she could “work” in a new/busy location. Went to the first one a week ago. She was freaking incredible!!!>
YAY! This is so cool! I am not surprised though, she is such a fun dog and you are doing a great job with her 🙂
Keep me posted! Stay warm!
Tracy
Hi!
>he is stinky cute.>
Totally agree – he is SO CUTE!!!!
This session went really well. Great job with the verbals! Yay! He is still learning to love the MM – on the threadle reps, he was looking at you til he heard the beep of the MM. That will change soon, and he will soon automatically look at the MM – so you can delay the click til he looks at it.
The serps all looked really good!
>I think my legs should be farther apart and I need to stand up .>
You were strong here! We get you moving with this game next week, so you won’t have to worry about foot position 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>he is stinky cute.>
Totally agree – he is SO CUTE!!!!
This session went really well. Great job with the verbals! Yay! He is still learning to love the MM – on the threadle reps, he was looking at you til he heard the beep of the MM. That will change soon, and he will soon automatically look at the MM – so you can delay the click til he looks at it.
The serps all looked really good!
>I think my legs should be farther apart and I need to stand up .>
You were strong here! We get you moving with this game next week, so you won’t have to worry about foot position 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
