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Hello and welcome here too!!!
He is doing really well sorting out the verbals only game, but I think he is guessing based on predicting what you will say (the order you say things) and not necessarily responding to verbals alone. He was thinking it was tunnel then jump then tunnel then jump – and if one was incorrect, he went to the other. So that is very clever but also not as much verbal discrimination – it was more about “do the other thing” in alternating reps LOL
So one thing to change: Hold him by the collar (have him wear a collar for this) so you can say the verbal 3 or 4 times then let him go, to let him process it before he moves – otherwise you will see him either default to the side preference (left or right lead) or obstacle preference, or guess based on figuring out your rhythm of saying things. He is definitely smart enough to figure out your rhythm as has probably made a decision about which one it was before you said anything, based on what happened on the previous rep 🙂
>We have previously done a lot of “focus” work, where he is cued to focus on the first obstacle after set up – so this may be somewhat counter-intuitive for him.>
Holding him by the collar will also take out the focus element and add more of a cue to listen rather than look.
So along with holding him – mix things up more! Don’t alternate tunnel then jump then tunnel – do a couple of the same in a row, then one of each, then 3 jump cues in a row, etc. Be as unpredictable as possible LOL!!
>I am thinking we should continue doing this exercise a bit longer, until we have an almost 100% success rate, before we move on to the handling exercises. Do you agree?>
I think you will both be bored if we do a lot of the verbals and not a lot of handling LOL!! Mix in the handling games – the discriminations are also supported by connection, but also there are levels of the games where we do NOT support with connection and the handling looks very much the same… so the dogs learn to listen for the verbal. And that can be just as challenging as this game but more fun because you both get to move 🙂 You can play these games (verbals only and handling) side-by-side because they are designed to work with each other.
Nice work here 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome! Great to see you here! He is looking really good 🙂
>We are behind with his contact training b/c I have been trying to teach him running contacts with a mat, but I’m very skeptical that the method will work (I’ve never trained RCs before). I’m trying to decide whether to continue with the RCs, or whether to switch to a stop.>
Ah yes, running contacts… they are not easy to teach! There are several different mat methods out there, and some of the more effective ones actually have a raised up mat to help the dogs. It is pretty intensive!
Looking at the video:
VERY nice timing on the FC at 3! You can be a little further over near 4, which might help give him positional info sooner so the turn is even tighter 🙂
>this video shows our first attempt, and our last attempt. In the first attempt he went to the backside of jump#5 >
That was actually a course build error, not a handler or dog error!
On the first run, The line to the front of the 5 jump would be a threadle for him based on how it was built. The landing spot of 4 here takes him on a parallel path to the backside of 5. He is not flicking away to it or lead changing to it, he is staying on his line. And that is what this generation of dogs is trained to do: stay on the line even if it takes them to the backside (because that is what we are seeing a lot of :))It is important to keep going and reward young dogs, because he was correct here – nothing told him *not* to go to the backside (the right verbal happened a stride after landing from 4, so I am sure he felt it applied to 5) And your motion did indeed cue him to stay on his line.
> he continued to do this even when I sent him from Jump#4,>
Because he was saying “mom, it is the line to the backside” LOL!
On the 2nd rep, you didn’t really move as he was taking 4 which shaped the line off the parallel path to the backside (but he was a bit wide, which might mean he was questioning the line).
So if you get an error where he goes to the backside – keep going, reward, then watch the video before doing the next rep. In those moments, the video will almost always show that the dog was remaining on the straight line/parallel path to the backside and the motion supported it – and we don’t want to lose that skill!
> After watching the video, I think that maybe he thinks that “right” means circle the wing, as I use R for him to spin to the R, and I had previously taught him to circle a cone with the “right” cue – maybe I should change my verbal cue for a soft turn to the R, or maaybe just say “jump”?>
I don’t think it was a verbal understanding question here (it was a line question on that first rep, where motion supported the backside line and the verbal was late so didn’t change the line). If right should mean a ‘soft’ turn, you can define exactly how much of a right turn you want when you say it (I want an approx 90 degree turn when I saw right). A jump verbal or a name call can get a kind of soft/middle ground of a turn here and also ‘jump’ always indicates the front of the jump – so I use it when I for sure do not want the backside. The timing of starting that would be no later than liftoff of 4.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>He had done pretty well in those runs which gave me a false sense that he might be ready. >
What you might be seeing as the difference is that in the NFC runs, the toy was visible in your hand (or he know it was in the pocket). In real runs, the toy is long gone before entering the ring. The 4-step NFC progression will help with fading the toy.
> I have 2x2s and a set of 6 weaves in SC…..is it worth working on those or should I wait to work on 12?>
I think it is worth working with 6 poles – you can use a tunnel off to the side as a distraction, for example, or even a food bowl 🙂
>.so maybe we can use that to help improve his behaviors when excited in a non-agility context. What do you think?>
Does he leap up at you when running on the beach? If yes, then you will want to have a plan first and foremost to not have him rehearse that behavior (such as throwing big treat fistfuls down if he comes running towards you with leapy thoughts). It not, great – and yes we can totally build up to using that! First I would be interested in seeing how he does with wild tugging then weaves, with a tunnel or some other type of distraction very close by.
>How do you teach a freeze? Any chance you have a video? Was it in a Max Pup class and I didn’t do my homework?>
If you think back to MaxPup 1, it is built off the Stays 2 Ways game – mainly the higher arousal one where we get the pups tugging then we take the toy and freeze… so they offer a sit or stand or down. Then we release and play (and gradually extend the duration). I build up to adding the word “stay” to cue the offer of a frozen position. How does he do with offering sits or stands without a cue?
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing well with these sequences and also giving good feedback about what she needs to see in terms of cues and timing 🙂When doing handling sequences and something goes wrong – either keep going (rather than stop), or praise and reward if there is no way to keep going. The dogs are correct 99% of the time (errors are handler errors such as timing or connection) so it is better to continue and reward, rather than stop or withhold reward. And you can watch the video to see why it went wrong.
Seq 1:
1-2-3-4-5 looked good!!
She missed 6 partially because of the tree obstructioed and partially because you were not connected (:11)That is a good spot to keep going if that happens, getting back on the line and continuing on.
You gave much clearer info when you ran it again with a big send and she got it really well. Super!
Seq 2:
For the blind in the opening, you can lead out more and be closer to the jumps but heading to 3. That will show her the line and also give you more time to finish the BC. On rep 1 – you were converging towards the landing spot of 2 and late with the blind. When she landed, you had not reconnected on the new side – and when you tried to reconnect, it was too late she was already past you on your right side. You can reward her there too, with big praise and the toy or cookies.You had much better connection on rep 2 but you don’t need to converge to the landing of 2 for the BC, you can head directly to 3 even more.
Seq 3: This one has both the RC and BC options 4-5. For the RC option, your first on at :28 was a bit late (she was already ttaking off and turning to her right). Even though she turned right instead of left… keep going! She was correct with the info she saw, and it was still a clear round! You had clearer and earlier RC cues at :56, so that line worked better there. Yay!
The BC is also a good option here. You can send to 3 more, so you are further ahead for the BC and start it as she is committing to 3. You were a little late at :38 but she got it after landing from 4. Good girl!
Seq 4:
On this one, you can send to 3 from further away too so you can get the BC 4-5 sooner as well – the BC also starts as she is committing to 3 here too (but it is on a different line :)) You were a little late but she did pick it up after the landed.Seq 5: she didn’t release off the start line here, she might have needed to be finished for the day? These sequences has a lot of running for her little legs.
> struggling to get the tight turn and avoid the off-course.>
This one was all about the timing and delivery of the cues for the tunnel exit. You can give her the tunnel exit cues when she is still at least a meter (possibly 2 meters!) before entering the tunnel. The verbal and physical cues here happened after she was already in the tunnel at 1:40 and 1:56 (and also on the last rep) so she correctly took the off course both times. You rewarded the first one but not the second one… reward both because she was correct! You got it by standing relatively still and doing a threadle arm, but she took the off course at the very end too when you were moving. So definitely let her see and hear the turn cues well before she enters the tunnel, and that should tighten up her turn.
Nice work!!!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree, he did great with the get outs here in both directions. No problems or questions a all! His best ones where when you let him see you do the arm cue and say the verbal after he lifted his head from start cookie. When the arm was already up, he did move towards the prop but it was not as snappy as the reps where you cued it really crisply.
Be sure to add in reps where you are moving forward but do *not* cue the get out, so he learns that just because he sees a prop doesn’t mean he should go to the prop (think ahead to the future: just because he sees a tunnel doesn’t mean he should go into the tunnel LOL!!)
You did a couple of those on the way back to the start, like at :59 and he was great about moving with you and not heading to the prop 🙂 So now let him see it in context so he is really reading the cues.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Yes! This was hard but I think it was more about him processing things in the environment too, not just the cues: being in the turf arena, agility happening behind him, a dog singing the sad song of its people in a crate right there…. his brain was being bombarded with stimuli! So when you were moving forward and using a fast hand cue, he didn’t really process the hand cue (the forward motion and the other stuff in the environment overrode it) and he could sometimes get the right turn but not the left turn at the beginning part of the session.
This is pretty typical that the more subtle cues get lost in the sensory bombardment with puppy brains 🙂 But he was able to stick with you and not really explore the environment so I think the session was a big win!!!
Adding toy play will actually help him block out the other things in the environment to focus on the more subtle cues from you, and also keep him more engaged
And when the hand cues were a lot slower, he was actually able to process them really well. You can see this at :16, for example, and at 1:39, 1:57, 2:03, 2:16 etc.
And when you used two hands at 3:00 and the reps towards the end where you were not moving forward as much – those were more visible to him and very effective!
I don’t think you will need to use 2 hands for the cue if you don’t want to (it is totally handler-preference so you get to decide) but you will want to slow the cue down and make it big and obvious, especially when there is a lot happening in the environment.
Great job!
TracyHi!
Wow, congrats! He totally cleaned up!!!!! And I bet you are excited for the haircut too LOL! Do you have any win photos with his big fancy hairdo?
Backing up – he totally remembered this and was offering really well!
Yes – the board was too wobbly to start then a bit too slippery when you turned it over- he was offering walking backwards but his back feet were slipping. Can you cover it with a yoga mat or something grippy? To get it to wobble less, you can stuff a towel or two under it to control the movement.One of the things we are finding with this group of puppies this year is that they are locking onto the reward hand and then the backing up gets angled away from that hand (rather than being straight). You were rewarding from your right hand only, so he was angling off that hand. Your hand position was spot on, so to encourage him to be straighter you can have treats in both hands and alternate which hand delivers the reward (rather than it always coming from one hand)
Threadle wraps –
At the beginning – coming towards you for the 360 was what was making it feel weird, probably. The threadle wrap would have him coming from behind you and that is what you switched to. Yay! Then it went very smoothly – the u-turns (rewards thrown behind you) were easy peasy!For the next session, do the 360s where you are moving (ike you were here) and cue a full 360 circle at your side (rewards thrown forward so you both keep moving forward).
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
The handling combo with the toy behind you went really well! Great job with the verbals. Add a FC and also add in cookie rewards for lining up with you having to move her by the collar or by the body.
Also, play with her when she gets the toy and when you are ending the session – check out the confused look on her face when you walked away at the end. Be sure to leave the session together and playing 🙂
Wow, look at that stay for the start of the turn aways! Very nice!! You did a lap turn and a tandem turn here, and they both looked super strong. So the next step is to add the prop to draw her past then turn away to so she drives to it on the new line.
The parallel path game is also going well – you can add more lateral distance by moving a little further away when she is getting her cookie, then moving up the line on the parallel path As you add more distance, you can replace the click with the ‘get it’ marker, to keep her looking ahead for the reward and not at you. The timing can be earlier too – say ‘get it’ and throw the reward when she is moving towards the jump setup, to reward commitment rather than waiting for her to arrive at the jump (so she doesn’t look at you when she gets there).
The tunnel games are going well! The first video was easy when she was on the outside turning towards the tunnel. The skill of turning away to get into the tunnel (2nd video) is definitely more challenging – but she also did really well!
For the tunnel sends when she is on the inside (between you and the tunnel, and turning away to get into it) you can now add your tunnel-threadle verbal.
I think the stay while you put the toy down was too challenging, but we also don’t want you to pull her to the start spot by her collar. Split the difference by putting the toy down and then walking her back hands-free and giving her cookies for moving with you.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
I agree – the lap turn went great! Your mechanics were super clear and he was able to sort it out really easily. You can add the prop to this!
For the threadle wraps – your hands were moving a shade too quickly so he was suyrprised by the turn away. You can decelerate as he is arriving near you, then do a slower turn away with your hand and I think he will find it very easy 🙂
The parallel path game is also going really well! As he is eating the start cookie, you can be moving up the line and also getting more lateral (rather than waiting for him). That will make it easy to add distance and to get him to find the jump from behind you too! I think the hardest part here was him finding the cookies in the grass 🙂 so you might need to use big chunks of cheese – anything visible that he doesn’t need to chew much.
He did a great job with the cone wrap! I think he was not sure what the reward was sometimes: toy or cookie in your hand. So use one or the other, as having both in your hands can be confusing and he stopped going for the tug.
I think he is ready for the rocking horse game with 2 cones!I am glad to hear the mat work is going well!
>. Should I work with him more with the box and walk with him and get lateral distance? >
You can if you like! Or, you might find that you want to use the mat for both the dog walk and the a-frame, which is very effective and saves you a bit of training 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
It sounds like Sprite did well at her first trial back! It makes sense that you would both be a little rusty but I am glad it went well overall! And Dot did well too 🙂
>We played her pattern game on the grass with our friend the hackberries during a walk through. They must be everywhere beside our backyard! >
For real! It is like the hackberries are following you around!
>BTW, no UTI. She’s just drinks a lot and pees a lot. Unfortunately, she also doesn’t just run out and potty. Dot gets distracted and takes a long time to get her to go. She won’t typically go on a walk and will wait until home. < I am glad thre is no UTI! And puppies are known for their substrate preference when pottying and it sounds like she has a substrate preference for her specific area at home. I take my pup on leash to a different place near the house every morning to potty, just so he doesn't develop a single substrate that her prefers. Grass in different places, gravel, dirt, etc - he gets to practice pottying everywhere LOL! And if he doesn't potty? I will stay out there as long as needed, using his potty cue. And part of the reward for pottying is we then go do what he wants to do (within reason of course LOL!) She did well with the threadle wrap foundation :) The u-turns and the circles with you stationary both went well. When you did a circle and throw the reward forward, you can turn and move the other direction so she can drive back to you for the next rep rather than you toss another start cookie. When you added movement, the everything was still really strong on your right. > I’ve no idea why I’m sideways when she’s on my left. >
I think what was happening was that you were stationary for too long, then started moving forward with your right leg when she got near you, then stopped to turn her… but the right leg was out ahead which is why you ended up a little sideways 🙂 On the reps where you were moving before she got to you and slowing down as she arrived at your side, things were very smooth and you were facing forward 🙂
The prop game is going really well! She is able to drive to it with you sending forward, sideways, and backwards. Super!!! My only suggestion here would be more toy play getting mixed in 🙂
At this stage, you can move away from the sending on the prop and work the harder games, like the rear crosses and ‘get out’. The sending stuff can be shifted to a cone or barrel 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
He did really well here with his forward focus and impulse control!On the 1st rep, you were too quick to pull the toy around so he didn’t do the cone but you fixed the timing, then you were great with the rest 🙂
You can challenge him even more by moving the toy around the cone more and more – the goal is to eventually get it so that he has to go right past it to go around the cone 🙂 So if he has an easy time for a rep or two… make it it a little harder 🙂 Getting a failure or two is actually helpful for this gane!Great job!
TracyGood morning! He was a good boy at the trial!
He did well tugging while dogs were running, and doing the toy version of the pattern game. You can probably do a version of it with 1 really long toy, so he can move more and chase it more after each engagement. He also seemed to love the disc at the end and was great about bringing it back 🙂I am happy he did get into the food – that really helps the patterns. You can build value for food in these environments by making it part of a sequence of behaviors: play with a great toy – let him assess the environment – re-engage-eat a treat – back to great toy 🙂
The treat in that sequence is not really a reward, it is more of a behavior that is getting rewarded. But that is great and will let you pump up the treat value in harder environments too!Great job!
TracyHi!
Casper did great here! It looks like he was pretty great with the verbals only – one moment of the backside of a jump but otherwise really good!! Yay! For that one backside, you can reward with a reset cookie.And he also did great with the handling – that’s the goal: to get the verbals and understanding solidified so when he gets a little handling added back, it is easy!! He was really working to find the front of the jump (sometimes you were on his line) and did well overall.
And I am glad that Enzo did great too! Yay!!!
I think you can move to handling challenge 2 (and revisit the purely verbal stuff here and there to keep sharpening that skill :))
Great job!!
TracyHi! He’s just pumped up, which is great!!
For now, you can ignore the barking, or give him a snuffle mat or a chewie 🙂 A Bully stick will work wonders in those moments.We will be teaching a game where he learns to be chuck ringside 🙂 but that is in a few weeks 🙂
Let me know how he does!
TracyHi! This went great!
>>I’ve been trying to get him out more fequently when there’s people still in the building. I have been coming inside with pattern games regardless of if we are alone or not bc he’s been beelining to and into the building since it’s now the best place on earth. So this was after all that. Came in on leash tugged but then Heather was cleaning the crate and life got hard>
It was really good to keep hun tugging and playing. Was the hard moment when he was scratching? You can do some chase games, tricks, etc. But he was a good boy and he definitely needs to have more people and dogs in the environment.
The rocking horses also looked strong. The single barrel wraps were spot on. When you did 2 barrels, the first barrel was strong but the clarity of the cue to the 2nd barrel can be better. At 1:40, he didn’t really see a strong step forward and send with connection and hand cue, and he saw the toy switch hands so he was not sure where to look.
The better reps had a clearer step forward to the 2nd barrel – so definitely keep a step forward (don’t rotate early yet) and use big connection and a little hand swoosh. And also, don’t switch the toy from hand to hand – that draws his focus to your hands. Keep it squished up in one hand or even in your pocket and pull it out. The give the marker and deliver to him 🙂Great job here!!
Tracy
