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Hello!
> Like this from class last week where she drove out almost 40ft to the jump on her line because I told her to Go when I should have been cueing a left turn.>
Ok, that was IMPRESSIVE!! Wow!!!
Thank you for the boing videos. Easy answer – it is a disconnection thing. You disconnect on the send? Info turns off, she gets frustrated, BOING.
It is a little hard to see on the videos because they were a little far, but when you go from connected to disconnected to point ahead of her: that is the moment that induces the BOING RAGE. Putting a toy on the line helps of course, but when you are connected she does not boing. The connection is what actually supports the line so it is the most important piece of info for her.
Visuals:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FlvBHI4h_VfSrgNufD4AFJOpfQBMMsaOOE7CLEvA5jc/edit?usp=sharing> then my transition is not what she is expecting/wants and the boing comes out. >
Yes- she wants you to stay connected LOL and expects you too because she is judgey like that 🙂
>Theres’s a bit of it at 2:40 on her brake arm sequences video from 2/21 where she starts to come off the jump and towards me as I am cueing the wrap.>
That was the only spot you were disconnecting and rotating too early, but you were so good with all of the other info that she was feeling generous and did not boing 🙂
So in classes or playing these games, direct your brake arms to her eyes and let you eyes follow your fingers to her eyes. Over-exaggerate the connection and see if we can de-boing her! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>First, I was a bit confused by
– 5 minutes / week
or
– 2 minutes / game.
I’m not exactly sure what you meant by a “game”>Sorry for any confusion!
It is 5 minutes for an unedited video, not per week. And 2 minutes for an edited video. It is a guideline to discourage people from doing 20 minute sessions or edited 53 reps into a video 🙂
A game is basically the 4 little wing-jump sequences for the brake arm (first lesson). The sequences allow for more flexibility because on the brake arm stuff, there are a LOT of sequences but also, we don’t need to do each one 25 times 🙂 So 2 minutes of edited video or 5 minutes unedited can still provide a lot of reps. Your video was an edited collection of both the warm up games and the sequences. Perfect!Looking at the video:
One jump reps: fab! He responded well to the hand cue!
Wing to jump reps: Still fab, even when late 🙂 More in timing below 🙂
At :30 – he jumped past all the collection cues to go straight and get the toy. My response would have been “hey!!!” as well 🙂 but here are more thoughts on that:
Abuot the placed toy – I think what will work more in your favor is that toy out on that line is NEVER the reward on the wraps – the line never takes him there on a wrap cue, and we don’t want even a small part of his brain to be considering it 🙂 If that was a tunnel out on the line instead of a toy, it would not ever be in play if I am giving a wrap cue and the toy should be held to the same standards.
Since it is sometimes in play as the reward when you send him to it, his brain is devoting bandwidth to paying attention to it. If it is never in play as the reward? His brain will eliminate it as an option and there is no draw to it, and all brain bandwidth can be used to organize the tight turns. So the toy can be out there… but rewards for the wrap all come from your hand or back on the wrap direction, and he is never sent out to get the placed reward after a wrap cue. The placed reward here is only for go lines – that is much more black and white (pun intended haha)
There were some reps where there was praise but no other reward for the turns, keeping the placed toy in play which is why it is still on his mind. You can have a 2nd toy in a pocket to whip out, or a placed toy in the direction you will be heading to after a wrap. Placement of reinforcement is one of the most clarifying things in dog sports.
>> I did that to try to simulate some of the excited “out of control” behavior I get at trials.>>
You can do that while maintaining clarity on rewards by getting him tugging wildly or chasing frisbees, or running through the tunnel 5 times in a row 🙂 That will also challenge your timing because he will be moving faster and timing is an important element too.
After the wrap cues, stay connected but turn and get outta there 🙂 The rep at :43 had good collection and was rewardable. He stayed out after the collection a bit because you rotated back out towards the red jump instead of completing the rotation for the wrap. Try not to open your shoulders there or at :48 to follow his line to landing: just turn and go to the next line.
Since I have mentioned it, let’s look at the timing:
He needs to see and hear the cues before he makes a takeoff decision. That includes the brake arm (along with decel, verbal, etc). Position near the wing is lovely! But also not as important as the other cues to get the wraps.
When you were moving to the wing but late with the strong brake arm, he was wide because his takeoff decision was already made so the only option was to turn after landing. If he is past the halfway point like at 1:30 amd 1:54 between the tunnel and the jump when he sees it, it is too late. At 1:37, he was already taking off when he saw it, definitely too late.
Compare to 1:46 and then the groove you got into at 2:01, 2:10, 2:22 – NICE! All of those cues happened before the takeoff decision, starting shortly after exiting the tunnel. Lovely turns.
>He seems to turn better to his right (“dig”) but I’m not sure if it is because I am better at cueing with my right hand.>
It was timing – he had gorgeous left turns too when the timing was good!
>If I can get close to a jump (as we are doing here), I can usually collect him pretty well. I hope we work up to some distance from the wraps.>
If you think more about giving the cues at the exit of the previous jump, you can get him to collect from anywhere. This includes the brake arm- bearing in mind that the brake is directed to his eyes, you can be parallel or behind him and point the brake arm to his eyes – but don’t turn your feet because that will likely pull him off the line (hitting the brakes too hard!)
You can see this on the last few reps:
3:13 ahd cues that were very swooshy over the bar as hewas taking off – wide turn
3:23 was earlier but still after the takeoff decision was made
3:27 had you showing the brake arm cues as soon as he exited the tunnel… very nice turn!Since you have the room, feel free to put another jump 20-something feet away so the line is jump-tunnel-jump-jump here to get a wrap on the new jump. Run in closer to the tunnel so you are not as far ahead, to play with wrap timing when you are not at the wing.
>I am not familiar/practiced with using the collection arm on the backside exactly the way you do. I “trail” my offside arm.>
The trailing arm is more to support commitment because it indicates the landing spot. The issue I see with it here at 2:32 is it widens his turn by leaving you in his way on the landing spot and turning your shoulders to the wider line.
Having your arm through the uprights at 2:39 & 2:47 also got a wide line, at 2:40 & 2:48 he is landing out by the other wing. So try a brake arm to his eyes before he arrives at the entry wing, then use your eyes only (looking back) to support commitment – no arm trailing, I don’t think he needs it 🙂
One last spot – he committed to the #1 jump at 2:51 and 3:04 on the send, but didn’t really collect before takeoff (turned when he landed). You might try the brake arm as part of the release to get collection before takeoff on that type of opening.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
This went really well! The Go versus Get Out when you were walking was easy on both sides. Super! Your arm cues looked lovely 🙂 There was one unrelated blooper at :48. He went to the other side of you because you turned forward to throw the toy – that looked like a blind cross cue so he switched sides, good boy!
When you added running: At 1:07 when you were really running, the motion overrode the get out cues. On the next reps at 1:18 and the last rep – you were still moving fast but really dialed up the get out cue to be even more exaggerated and he got it! SUPER!! The one ‘no reward’ moment at 1:07 and the rewards at 1:18 and the last rep were really useful for his understanding.
For the next time you visit this game, 2 things to add:
– the advanced level where you do the FC or BC as soon as you see his head turn and him take a stride to the jump
– move the wrap wing in really close to the jump to proof the ‘go straight’ moments. That jump will be very easy to do the ‘get out’ when it is close but a lot harder to ignore on the GO reps when it is only a foot or two away 🙂Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Nice job with Mission: Transition!
Go reps were strong, every single one was connected and fast, so she knew exactly what to do. SUPER!!
> Mission Transition I feel like I did much better on the first side, then struggled with how to time.>
I think you did well on both sides 🙂 It is a HARD game with a baby dog because they are still learning to commit!
On the first side, you can show more acceleration on the wraps . Sounds counterintuitive LOL! What I mean is that rather than be at a steady decelerated pace, you can go fast til she exits the wing then make a BIG transition into decel, then rotate when she collects right before takeoff.
On the other side you were doing the acceleration then deceleration. That is probably what made the timing feel a little harder, because she needs to see the decel early enough to coordinate her mechanics, but she did well!!
Also, she sees *everything* – at 1:14 she came off the jump after a good decel and I thought maybe it was a lack of connection? Watching it frame by frame – Nope, you were connected… it was because you started rotating too early (for a baby dog). Watch your left leg step out into the rotation for the FC while she was still several feet away from the jump (MILES away, for a baby dog 😂🤣)and that is the extact moment she comes off the line.
If that happens (she comes off the jump), you can stay in flow and send her back around the wing to either do a GO or try another wrap. That way, she is not told she is wrong, but also we are not rewarding for stopping in front of the jump 🙂
Your next rep at 1:27 was lovely – you had a good decel and waited longer to do the rotation, so she was gathering for takeoff. You started the rotation just before takeoff and she was able to stay committed. The other reps were strong too but I think the rep at 1:48 might have been my favorite! Lovely! It gets easier to time this and she will read it earlier as she gets more experienced, so don’t worry if any of the turns are a little wider for now. She is doing great!
Zig zags are looking strong too. She is ready for the next steps and because this went so well, I would add 2 things at the same time 🙂
– add the 3rd wing and bar
– move it all closer together so the wings are touching the previous bar
That will mean you both have to move a little quicker but I think there will be no issues, only success with that 🙂Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
I just love his turtle neck in the zig zag video! So cute and dapper! His stays & releases also looked great!
It was not exactly a cheat to come back over the bar to get the reward at :40 🙂 but handling him to go around it was helpful!
> I can be a little more deliberate and move less (like you were in the example video), >
Your movements looked good to me! They needed to be pretty exaggerated to show him the line and he did really well! You can try having your hands a little lower because he is small, but otherwise there is no need to change your movements. You can take this outside when the weather is good to let him play with lead changes on a different surface.
MIssion: transition is one of my favorite games! He was really paying attention to the cues, love it!
Note that at :16 you did your wrap verbal and he went and wrapped the jump: freeze the video there and you will see your feet pointing to the jump, so he was correct. Good boy! That is rewardable. Compare to :21 when you gave him the wrap verbal but your feet were opinting to the barrel… so he went to the barrel.The sends to the wraps were really good – he could TOTALLY tell the difference between the wrap verbal & send and the GO, and made the correct adjustments to his striding. SUPER! He really only had one question:
At :23 you cued Go so he jumped in extension, then you wanted him to come back to you for the reward. He had to think it over LOL! You can throw the reward forward past the jump for the Go reps that like you did at :41 for example. And the wrap reps can be rewarded back at you, which is what you were doing and looked great! .
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Otherwise my body looks like same for the IN, kinda.>
The dog-side arm back is similar to the threadle slice/in cue but on the threadle slice, we swing the arm back a lot plus handler position (and verbal) is different.
Think of serps as walking through a room at a cocktail party, carrying a tray of pigs-in-a-blanket 🙂 Your feet are pointing to your direction of travel, but the serving tray is held behind you and away from your body LOL
Looking at the serps in the video:
I think the main thing is not which arm to use, but more that we can teach her to drive in over the jump based on your line & position! When you are moving parallel to the bar, she doesn’t drive in for the serp.
At :55 (first rep) your pigs-in-a-blanket arm was great! But she did not come in. On the next rep at 1:07 you had your opposite arm up but I don’t think that was what brought her in: you also stepped back away from the jump (watch your right foot there)
When you switched sides, you used your opposite arm but also moved parallel and she did not come in. So to get her to come to the jump when you are moving parallel to the bar, you can angle the jump a little towards her so she can see the bar more and doesn’t have to jump sideways as much.
Also, be sure to look at her directly on the send to the wing and face it with a big step til she commits – at 1:27 you turned away on the send so she did not go to the wing. When that happens, assume handler error and reset her with a cookie. She had a MAD when you indicated she was wrong (lack of reward, a ‘come here’ and reaching for her collar were the indicators). Note how she did not want to come back then had a change in body language when she did come back.
She had another BIG MAD at 2:15 when the send was not clear (note your left leg stepping back instead of forward) and she moved away and sat. You did pull out a cookie to get her to come back, but you can pull out the cookie to reset immediately before the MAD happens 🙂
One more idea – if you are using a toy as the target, don’t also throw food because then she will ignore the toy and just watch your cookie hand 🙂 Getting her to look downwards to the reward target will really help her also look for the bar. So you can use a toy, or a toy with a stuffed lotus ball, or a food bowl – but the reward is on the ground and she can get it without watching your hands 🙂
Looking at the ladder grid: She definitely understands the concept and her stay looks great! Yay! We are going to change the rewarding and you will see more power happening:
The first rep had the reward stationary and close so she landed on jump 2 a bit. The other reps had the reward further, but stationary (and you were moving on rep 3). The stationary reward doesn’t actually promote powerful form, so you can see her form was more up-and-down rather than pushing from the rear because she was working on stopping to get the reward more than on jumping. So… no more stationary rewards! Attach the toy to a long line and drag it (moving target). You will see an entirely different ‘attack’ of the grid 🙂 I think the distance was fine here, and possibly even too small when the moving target is in place.Nice work! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Just posted it! YouTube was being bizarro about loading it – YouTube is having a strange week, lots of errors. I blame the weather LOL!
Good morning!
Dogs LOVE the line up and we often see it get offered as the first order of business, like she did here LOL!!
You can make the hand target more obvious by leaning a little on that side (to get the target more to nose level) and letting her see you shift your gaze from her eyes to your target hand. You can even shake the hand a bit!
I think the target faded into the background especially with the foot stance of the line up being available. What is your line up cue? It is possible that your hand position looks the same, but getting the target hand lower and making it the center of your focus will help. You can see that when you got down on the ground she found the target with no problem – that then transferred beautifully to when you stood up again.
For the next session, start with your feet together and a low target hand while you are standing, so she locks onto the target and not your feet 🙂
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
The novel-exciting SSC game went really well! I think the bone was the exciting object in the first part? Or maybe you were just moving it out of the way 🙂 She was great about ignoring it. She was also super with the treat bag which was definitely harder because it was so close! She looked at it when you put it down, but I am fine with that because generally in shaping sessions when we put something down, it is an indication that we want the pups to interact with it. She was able to offer strong behavior on the prop – it is interesting to see how she found it easy to move away from cookie bag to get to the prop, but harder to move towards it! That is an indication that she was very aware of the cookie bag and was working hard to ignore it 🙂 You were patient and helped a little and she was able to get it. Good girlie!!!Nice work! You can keep putting novel-exciting things into the environment and play any of the games that she is good at and enjoys.
Tracy
Good morning!
I loved that you used the toy for the prop game here! The higher level of arousal that the toy brings will help offset the challenges in the environment (wind, noise, cars). It is more tiring to play with toys, so you might only get about 30 high energy seconds then take a break. Her hits were strong and her engagement was excellent for the first part.
Then she might have gotten tired – and it is possible that she is teething a bit (I think she is only 21 weeks or so?) and she stopped tugging because her mouth was ouchy. Something seemed to have caught her attention when she stopped tugging – you can also throw the toy around more and drag it away to see if you can get her back onto it after a distraction.
Using pattern games is a great way to get her comfy in the environment and she is really good at them too!
Nice job with the RCs on the prop! She was driving to it really well which allowed you to change sides in time on most of the reps – only one late rep at :34 where you walked straigth for a couple of steps before changing sides which made it a little late – so she turned to the original direction.
Compare that to the next rep at :50 where you started a little further away (gave you more time to change sides) and you were MUCH earlier with the side change: you were already on the new side when she still had one more stride to go before reaching the prop. PERFECT!! A cookie crumb might have caught her attention on the very last rep but the rep at :50 was great!
Lovely work!
Tracy
Hi!
>Can you please give me an example of what games represent what?
Sure! My general rule: if I have to run, it is handling LOL!!!
> Does each Game package include all these elements?
Mostly, I think yes!
>Resilience I know because the game name tells me so LOL!>
Yes – resilience is obvious LOL Here are others, using the last 2 sets of games:
Handling:
Prop Game 2: Parallel path, countermotion, RCs
Collection Sandwich
Turn and burn
Strike A Pose (even though I am not running yet haha)
Prop Game 3
SSC Handling CombosBody awareness (I will also add shaping in general to this topic)
Backing Up
Stays
Retrieves
SSC Novel-ExcitingObstacle games (more will be added as we go along)
TunnelsLet me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>the timing of the topics in Package 4 is impeccable. My older dog missed getting his C-ATCH this weekend due to a poorly directed threadle (100% my fault), LOL – so opening this week’s package and seeing threadle foundations gave me a solid laugh.>
Hilarious!!! And I am sure you will get the C-ATCH next time!
>I do use ‘Wrap’ with my other dog, but my hesitation using it for the turn & burn game is potential confusion on NADAC barrels. In some of the sample videos it seemed like some were using ‘Around’ for the game, which is what I use for my older dog on NADAC barrels – would that be appropriate here or do you have a suggestion?>
I think you can keep it consistent with future goals. So if NADAC barrels are something she will see, then you can totally use your barrel cue (‘around’). And when we switch to the wings, we can add wing wrap verbals at that stage.
>I’m ok changing some of my verbals between Fynn and Macklynn – I’m doing things much differently with Macklynn and want to make sure I learn and adjust so that Macklynn and my future agility pups benefit.>
I highly recommend, for sanity’s sake, using the same verbals for both LOL!! And anything you add for Macklynn can also be added for Fynn! Trying to remember different verbals for different dogs can be too much of a brain-bender (trust me, I have tried LOL!)
> I do have some questions, since I don’t see a lot of the turn situations in CPE trials, but I want to understand and incorporate them. If I don’t find good examples in google searches, I may send a couple rough sketches your way to make sure I understand what’s described.>
Yes please to sending sketches or even videos of what you mean! CPE is often similar to AKC challenges in many ways, so those are the verbals we prioritize. NADAC has the big distance skills, so we can add those too! And if you have an interest in the international-flavors 🙂 we can add that too! The trick is to prioritize and add it all piece by piece so it doesn’t start to feel overwhelming.
Looking at the turn away video:
The lap turns were perfect: your timing of the hand and foot drawing her back into the turn was spot on and she turned well to both sides. You were rewarding her at your side, and you can also fling the reward ahead for her to run to after the turn.
You can totally go to the advanced level of this (adding the prop after she turns away).
>Slightly embarrassed at my allowing her to get distracted by the tug mid-game, but appreciated her telling me it was time to break up the game.>
Don’t be embarrassed! She was so cute! And you said ‘get it’ when she was looking at the toy, so she got it LOL!
For the tandem turns – thanks for posting the video even though it felt weird! What was happening was you were drawing her in front of you/across your feet for the turn, which is probably why it felt weird. To make it feel smoother, you can draw her to your side then turn her away at your side (then you turn to face the direction she is heading also). She was turning away here but she can do that on the side she is approaching rather than being in front of you. And you can use two hands if that feels more comfy.
Strike a pose is off to the strong start here! Your mechanics were lovely: she targeted the hand really well and your reward placement was spot on! If you see her starting to look at you or at the reward hand instead of the target, you can shift where you are looking to look at the target instead of her cute face 🙂
This game is also ready for the next levels: using a toy reward and also getting the reward to the ground (like an empty food bowl to then plop the treat into).
Great job!
TracyHello and welcome!!! I am looking forward to seeing you and Ven! And yes, working to pay dog bills does get in the way of the fun LOL 😂 😝
Good morning!
>I’d still love to hear which ginger snap cookie is the best one. It can’t hurt to try that too. >
In my mind, I had totally sent this info to you LOL!! But in reality, I did not, sorry! So here it is:
” I use Trader Joe’s triple ginger. They are small cookies. Taq at 13 lbs gets one cookie 20 mins before a car ride. ”
This owner of this pup is also a veterinarian so I trust her advice 🙂
Good backing up session here! He is doing well backing up from under the chair and you are getting more and more steps backwards. The low hand position is helping for sure – you can take more breaks so your back doesn’t get angry from leaning over 🙂 And you can also add the target mat back in, using this same set up but adding a mat for him to back up onto.
Prop game video:
He is driving really well to the prop! To get the RCs, show that info sooner: you will basically be super closer to him when you start and right near his tail, so as he drives ahead of you, you are starting to cut to the new side. When you were starting further away, you had more room to do it and you can also move the prop further into the room so you can even more room.
For the next session, you can also take out the clicker – that way he will keep looking at the line which makes the RCs easier too! The clicker tends to draw their attention to us 🙂
>I think I should have been rewarding him for hitting the prop when he came back. Not sure what I was thinking! I didn’t even reward for the return hits on the parallel path contrast reps! Sheesh! Mean.>
Not mean at all LOL!! But yes, you can either reward him for hitting it on the way back, or you can call him back to you to get him past it without hitting it.
He did well with the SSC game! The hardest past was finding the start cookie 🙂 but he sure loved the toy chasing with you!
>I saw him look at it on the first rep and then I think he tuned it out.>
Yes – it was probably a really unusual thing in the environment so he had to process it, then he did great!
> I did a cookie toss and switched to what I thought would be a novel/exciting item (bag of treats) but after thinking about it, I think it is really a novel/neutral item since he really didn’t even know what it was. >
I am sure he could smell it, though, so it was still exciting to his brain! And a big win that he didn’t appear to notice it. Dog brains notice ALL smells so his lack of attention to the bag of treats is a big win!! And ideally, we don’t see the pups notice the distractions 🙂
>I’ll try to think of a better novel/exciting item. Maybe the tupperware!>
The Tupperware might have more excitement because of the history of treats coming out of it, so it might definitely be a more challenging exciting object!
Looking at the goat game:
The noise plus movement seemed interesting and challenging at first but not weird. It seemed to be weird to him when it was sliding. Good to know! But he still got on it!
While teaching noise plus movement, I do two things to help the pups not over-think it or get concerned:
– super short, ridiculously high value sessions. That might mean exactly one rep with ALL the treats delivered for that one rep. Or one rep for a big piece of steak. Then done! He will want more but don’t let him do more – we want him drooling with anticipation to get on the board for each session!– yo can also let him see Bazinga or Frankie play on it (if they like it), then he gets his one rep. A bit of social learning combined with a bit of jealously 🙂 can help him smack it and make it noisy without thinking about it too much.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree, Rusty really loved running through the tunnel LOL!!! I don’t think you needed the Manners Minder here – your cookie throws were very timely and he was SUPER happy. Good boy!
When you aren’t snowed in, you can bring the Manners Minder in mainly to teach him about it because you might use it in other training games. You can use thrown treats and even a thrown lotus ball for his tunnel games.
Since this went so well:
>Also next time I will set up the longer tunnel. >
Yes, I think he is ready for the longer tunnel. Start it straight to review what he did here, and you can also add the threadle-side where he is between you and the tunnel and has to turn away to find the tunnel entry.
If he is happy with that, you can start adding gently curves to the tunnel.
Great job here!
Tracy
