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Hi~
This was an excellent brain workout for him!!! You can see him really trying to solve this puzzle – it is a REALLY hard puzzle for sure! And for a dog that is relatively new to this verbal-only game, he was largely successful.>So here is his video; he was pretty good at tunnel versus “jump not a tunnel” but, alas, he is pretty random about which side of the jump.>
His effort included looking at you while processing the info – and for this game, that is perfectly fine because it means he is trying to sort things out. And I believe that is why he was ending on on the other side of the jump when you were cueing the jump: by the time he processed the verbal to mean NOT the tunnel, going to the backside was right there. So I think his offered ‘answer’ to your ‘question’ on those reps was “not the tunnel” which in that moment meant either side of the jump.
>I should have brought out some food for reset cookies. Since he thinks food is “meh” I forgot but next time I will bring it. >
The food can come into play on those “not the tunnel” answers – the backside of the jump is semi-correct and at these early stages, you can reward him with a good food reward as you reset at your side. I praise, deliver a good treat (if food is generally ‘meh’ when working, treats without value won’t affirm the ‘not the tunnel’ answer). And when he gets it fully correct: not the tunnel AND front side of the jump – big big toy party like yo were doing.
My only other suggestion is that when you play these verbal only-games, you can make your tunnel cues bigger-louder-longer, as if you are really running. Your jump cues were quieter and shorter, which is what they would be on course. The difference in verbal delivery will really help!
>At the end, I just isolated the jump and tried to work on front versus backside wrap versus backside slice. I fear we will have to clean that up before we can progress with the jump versus tunnel.>
Don’t worry about front versus back of jump right now as verbals only – jump versus tunnel is more important for what is coming up in his trial future and you can give those semi-meh food rewards to reset after the back of a jump answer. We move on from this pretty quickly so I don’t think front versus back will be something you need to worry about right now unless you have big ISC courses on your agenda.
>And another thing…when we are running courses, I don’t feel that Casper is TOO handler focused. His “go-on” is pretty good and he stays committed to things pretty well (at least that’s what I think). In this little exercise, however, he looks back at me a lot. It is particularly obvious on video.>
I agree and his strong line focus is why I am not worried about him looking at you in this game – I am kind of glad he is trying to assess all the info and not just throw himself at obstacles! He won’t look at you when we give him back some motion 🙂
>Also, I will try harder with the two mistake rule. Most of my life I have used a different two mistake rule: if he does it wrong twice in a row, then change something.>
This is where the food resets can come in handy – a toy-driven dog does differentiate between woohoo toy party and here’s a cookie let’s try again. It helps keep the success rate high while isolating the behavior we want.
>What about using a manners minder set out so it can be used to reward either the jump or the tunnel? That might help with forward focus, don’t you think?>
I think it is fine to have it out there as long as it is halfway between the 2 obstacles so he can’t guess based on where it is located. It might also be a massive distraction where he turns his attention to trying to get it to beep rather than listening to your words. I am not worried about his forward focus, you all see him look at you a bit on these stand-still games but not on the games with motion.
Great job here!
Tracy
Keep me posted and have fun at the trial!
> Sultry University. lol.>
OMG!!! That is hilarious. Maybe a new business opportunity as long as they don’t need me to be the poster child hahahahaha
Hi!
>As far as the set up – I paced out 8′ between the middle of the tunnel and the middle of the jump. That’s correct isn’t it? Should I change that up any? >
Yes, it is correct – maybe the wings are tall and that is why it looks closer? But it is a perfect level of challenge for him!
I really liked this session – he had a big breakthrough moment when you were moving faster and cueing the jump and he almost missed it…. but then came around you t find the jump! It was an excellent reward, because even though it was not perfect, he was really working the processing! Yay!!!
He seemed to have a hard time going to the tunnel after doing several jump reps in a row. Taking the break was good and definitely helped. One thing to consider is changing how you see the verbals slightly, so there is more than just the word to help him: ‘jump’ can be quieter and said in a more choppy way. ‘tunnel’ can be loud and long and extended. Right now they sound similar enough that changing the style of how you say them might make a huge difference.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyWelcome to you and Luc! It is great to see you here! That makes at least 3 cool Cockers in the class 🙂
Have fun! Safe travels home to AZ!!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, plans a-b-c-d-e-f are needed for running young dogs 🙂
>.but I also didn’t want him to be over the top and biting me on course! So asking for the sit gives him something to do which doesn’t involve biting me!>
Is he actually biting or just hitting you? We don’t really want either of course. I think he pummeled you before the sit 🙂 My personal rule of thumb is that the dog cannot bite or jump on me if I keep moving the whole time 🙂
T
Hi!
Both trial runs looked really good! You can try for some more blinds in JWW instead of rears 🙂 But connection overall looked lovely!
>but when he popped out of the weaves(JWW) I didn’t respond fast enough…so he rehearsed all the bad behaviors.>
Does he have a “freeze!” behavior? You say a cue and he just stands there? For something that has criteria maintenance involved, a freeze behavior might ward off the jumping up so you can reset.
Also, how often does he pop out of weaves at class or trials?
>I am doing most of your recommended activities (pattern games & tricks) for pre-run routine. >
How do you feel he is doing with these? The video starts with him already in the stay and he looks great!
>I definitely need a better strategy/routine for the end of our runs. I am not sure when/if that is part of your syllabus for this class….but this is definitely a problem area. I would do FEO but not sure how to leverage that to practice this.>
Yes, we totally tackle it later in the class. One recommendation for him is to NOT celebrate or praise at the end of the run – just keep running to the leash a if it is an obstacle. And praise or celebration is bringing him directly towards you.
I would recommend teaching him to target his leash and go get it 🙂 And for NFC, we can look at leaving the toy with the leash, so it is even easier to target!
Nice job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>“this is stupid and boring, where is the action?”
I can definitely switch to higher value food as this was done with kibble.>That makes sense! you might not need to go much higher in value at home, but for sighthoundy dogs at trials – super high value treats are best at first.
>But I could modify it for her and do higher value food for warm up, then toy right before going in.>
Yes – try it and see how it goes! I have found all of my sighthounds (at the beginning of their careers) have worked great with high value food the whole time before the run then the toy in the NFC run. Then as they mature, it can be a mix of lower value food and toy. She might be similar to that.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>Anastasia who thought Grace was the best chi she’d ever seen,>
Of course!!! Good girl, Grace!!!!
The sequence work is looking really good!
Seq 1:
You can try a BC 3-4 instead of the FC. The FC looks really good, but it would be good to see if you can also get it on the blind in case you needed to get even further ahead of her.
My only other suggestion is to use your wrap verbal on 5 – you were saying ‘go’ so she was a little wide.Seq 2: The BC in the opening went great! You can lead out with her on your right rather than on your left, which would eliminate the need to change sides before the release. On the 3rd rep, the dog-on-left lead out push to 3 worked great!!
Nice wrap verbal on 3 and nice turn! The 3-4-5 section was the only hard part:
After the nice turn on 3, you lost connection so she didn’t take 4. The next run had a great opening and nice connection 3-4 but then you broke connection turned forward to the tunnel which pulled her off the line to the tunnel.The last rep was spot on!
Sequence 3 ran really well! Super nice connection! You did the BC and the RC on the 2 jumps before the tunnel and both worked really well 🙂 You left out the number 3 jump (the one on the other side of the tree) – that would use a big send but it would make the BC even easier.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>I don’t do much of this type of thing on leash, so thought I should practice for trial situations.>
Yay for practicing on leash! You will totally need this for trials!
>I’m also still working out if she needs toy or food for this sort of thing.>
Truthfully – you won’t know for certain til she is a year into her trial career. Things move around a lot and change in the early stages. I tend to use both food and toys, and work out rituals and timing as the dogs get more experienced.
>And just as this clip starts, she sensed I was transitioning from that game to something else and she started to head for the toy, I think hoping we would start something more interesting and do some sequencing.>
So the looking away was during the pattern game? Do you think the pattern game was a little dull (game or value of food perhaps) or maybe she was morphing it into a bit of a “look at that”?
>She seemed more engaged AFTER the work for the food, but I’m pretty sure she was just anticipating that I was going to send her to the toy?>
Maybe, or it is possible the ‘work’ engaged her nervous system differently and activated her HPA axis differently so the engagement came from a higher arousal state.
> I definitely “had her” more when I did it for the toy,>
Yes – the toy was the FUN part for her!
Question about the food: what type of treats were you using? In harder environments, you might need to go higher value: string cheese, meatballs, etc
> but in that moment of assessment after the toy play was done, she kind of went flat.>
It is possible she as like “why are we just standing here” hahaha. I think that she will recognize the end of the toy play as the step before something really fun happens, so she won’t go flat.
>I have noticed in our training sessions she can sometimes disengage after I ask her to give up the toy. Not huge, but it’s been consistent. So not sure which one is actually more effective.>
This is all really fantastic information! I am curious to see how her engagement is if you go to high value foods (my pointy dogs had chicken nuggets as their treats today :)) The disengagement might be a value question from her.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>I now use a treat to get the toy to avoid teeth to skin contact.>
You can toss the treat off to the side rather than hand-deliver it in the transition from the toy to the line up, so you don’t any tooth contact.
>I did notice that she does a lot better when I line her up before sending rather than doing it on the fly.>
100% yes! lLning her up and taking a moment to connect then send produced the very successful reps!
Sending her to the left turns without that was when she would hit the barrel – you were a little sideways to it so she was not always sure of that. You can put yourself right in between the barrels sp she can see it better.
The right turn wraps seemed to be the easier side for her, so you can start with that side more often (you had a lot of left turn wraps). That will keep the success rate higher.
A suggestion for the left turn wraps: use an empty bowl as a visual target to get her moving around the barrel. It can halfway around to start, then 2/3rd of the way around ,then all the way around – that might bridge the gap between the earlier games and this one. It is just a visual aid, so you don’t need to reward in the bowl – you can still reward with the toy!
And then for each send, have the send hand empty and give her a TON of eye contact/connection as you step to the barrel . That will help too!
For now, be super methodical with the mechanics: send her around with big connection, connect, reward… line up then send to the next barrel. For 2 in a row, it is just as methodical: line up, send, FC, connect. And when she is jut about arriving at your side, do a very connected send to the next barrel. And you can totally have the empty food bowl out there on the left turn barrel or both barrels 🙂
>I’m not sure why she is jumping up on the hamper. >
She was trying to figure out what to do so had some creative offerings 🙂
> tried having the toy on the ground to encourage her to go around it, but she did a grab and run. >
I think she was sensing your frustration and was moving away because of it there.
You can also do a food reward after each wrap, then break off for tugging so you can have the full fun f the tugging – but the food lets you be more methodical in these early stages.
>Wanted to finish on a good note so kept trying one more time.>
Since I love nerding out on the science: the science tells us it is OK to end without a successful rep. Partial that is because we might need to let latent learning work its magic on whatever we were trying to teach, so we don’t see the learning in the session. Also, more reps can lead to a lower rate of success and we want to keep that high.
So if things are going sideways in a session, I might try switching sides to see if the pup needs to turn the other way? Or I end the session with some play and send the video to the classroom 🙂 Training whippets has taught me that I might not see ANY of the behavior I want in the session but it will show up in the next day or two, after they sleep on it 🙂
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
>However, it took a few tries to actually eat the food.>
Definitely interesting! Could be that the box was really interesting/slightly weird, or he is teething so his mouth feels differently today, or that as an early adolescent, we are seeing normal variations in value or all of the above LOL!
The session was really good though You were able to get him doing a nice back and forth through it with all 4 feet by the end! You can add a little bit of an angle fr the start cookie and reward, so he can offer finding the box on a bit of an arc.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>Question regarding the parallel path with the jump. How much distance laterally should I be working towards? Specifically wondering how will he know the difference between when I walk forward past the prop with distance and don’t indicate that he should move with me and not go to it, but when I move forward past the jump when I am a distance away, he should still take it? I expect he will figure out the difference easily right now with each of the different props, so I guess it’s really me that needs to understand the difference, >
Eventually we will want 6 meters! But for now, 2 meters will be good 🙂
My belief on it (especially in this age of BIG distance and the dog needing to stay on the parallel line: If it is on the dog’s line and there is value – he should take it, even if we are pretty far away. Not on the line? Don’t leave the handler to take it. You will see that in the get out versus don’t get out game 🙂
And I am pretty sure he already knows the difference between the props LOL!! It is like the difference between a jump, a tire, and a tunnel, etc- easy for the dogs to sort out.
Tracy
Good morning!
OMG sorry for the delay – I saw your post and answered in my mind… but clearly never posted it. SORRY!!!!
The get out game went really well – she has a ton of value for the prop so it was the easiest thing even. And you also had nice clear cues to get her to your side who you asked, so that was super easy too.
Since this went so well, time to add motion (and the verbal if she is happy with the motion element)! A line on the ground (like a leash) will help you move straight so your feet don’t accidentally turn to the prop. And you can experiment with exactly how high your arm needs to be – towards the end it was pretty high, above your shoulder-level, so she had a question on those. You can try having your arm at shoulder level or just below it and see what she says 🙂
Threadle wrap foundations: She did great with the u-turns on both sides. Super easy! Yay!
Since these went brilliantly, you can fast- track this: for the next session, so the circles and if she is happy with those: add the motion of you moving and cueing u-turns and circles.Rocking horses: she also did great here! When you were really connected and not pointing forward til she was past you, she as pretty perfect. When you were not as connected, looking a bit ahead/pointing ahead, your shoulders turned away from the barrel a bit so she had questions (like at :37 and :54 where she offered a spin on the flat). You won’t always have to be perfectly connected but it helps for now 🙂 The last set of wraps was perfectly connected and she nailed it!
You can add more toy breaks – she was losing a bit of engagement here and there and that might have been a product of too much cookie and too much of the same thing 🙂 So you can do a wrap or two, then a tug break, then a couple more, then a tug break.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
He is also doing well here – it is possible that he is a lefty for this game (as he offered right at the beginning) so it will be interesting to see if that side is easier for him.>At 1.30 ish baby checks out, I think i didn’t pay him enough when he did some problem solving, so I did a couple of easy hand targets when he came back.>
A couple of reasons for why he might have left for a moment –
If it was the 3rd of 3 sessions, he might have been a bit tired and needed a longer break. Also, all 3 sessions were food rewards, so he might have been a bit full of treats in the belly and not really wanting to run 🙂 Plus, the treats were kind of calm – the is a good game for a toy! You can use a treat to line him up or reset him at your side, but then reward with a toy when you do the front cross and run. I think that all be very exciting!Let me know how he does in the other direction!
>Curse his getting confident getting on planks, he jumped up on my see saw which he hasn’t done before (thankfully the bottom half so it didn’t move!) – that’s why i say break at the start of this video>
Ha! Yes, wedge it and block it off so he doesn’t start teaching himself the contacts LOL!
Great job!
Tracy
