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Good morning!
Yes, his stays have been looking great 🙂 The catch reward and the get it was easy to add. When using ‘catch’, you don’t also need “ok” – ok will indicate to drive forward, and catch indicates he can look back to get the reward. You can also use a verbal sit cue – he seemed to be waiting for that and since the stay is going so nicely, you can totally use the sit cue.
>I think I am ready for distractions of distance and movement.>
100% agree. Ideas for you:
Yes, you can add in more distance on the lead out – I think this is going to be easy for him 🙂
Add in facing away from him on the lead out and release, so it looks like an agility release (facing him looks like an obedience release, and he needs to know both :))
Add in lining up at your side then moving away after cueing the stay.
Add in having him start on leash, take the leash off and set up a sit stay. It is a great rehearsal for his future start lines in agility and also his obedience work. I like to take the leash off before I cue a sit, because pups often move when the leash comes off and I don’t want him to be wrong.
Add in having him do a sit stay in front of something sort of exciting (but not mind blowing :)) It can be an empty food bowl, or his prop. That is a great rehearsal for lining up for a stay in front of a jump!
Great job here, let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>It totally makes sense too with the goat who likes to climb too >
And we do want him to be interested in the contacts! But not quite yet LOL!!!
>For verbals. I am having trouble figuring out what I want to do. For wraps I have used dig dig for turning towards me and switch for RC.>
That is why we are starting early 🙂 That gives you time to figure out what you want to do, and then practice it in simple games til it becomes second nature for you both! And we don’t add all the verbals all at once – adding them slowly will make it easier to remember them all 🙂
One of the ways to decide what you want to do is to think ahead a bit, about what you flavors of agility you want to do in the future! If your favorite ‘flavors’ are international stuff/ISC/higher levels of UKI/NADAC distance challenges then you will want to have verbal directionals that don’t require physical support as much – wrap-right and wrap-left for example. If your favorite flavors are CPE/regular AKC/beginner levels of UKI, then you won’t need as many verbals because looking at current course design, the handler is usually in a good position to also show physical cues. But regular AKC course design is evolving to add more international-ish challenges so we might add them to the ‘more verbals needed’ list in the next year or so.
And it is perfectly fine to start with a smaller set of verbals and then add as the training develops and as course design evolves.>Around is my backside. >
Backside verbals are a great example of thinking about what your favorite agility flavors are: CPE and NADAC? You don’t need any backside verbals! Regular AKC and premier? At this point, only one backside verbal is required because the handler is really always present at the backside. UKI/ISC/International style courses? You will need 2 backside cues (slice and wrap) because the dog will be asked to do them without a lot of handler help physically, so the verbals cues tell the dog exactly which behavior you want because the jumping effort is really different.
>I had started training a tunnel threadle with Brighton but didn’t really continue it. It was seek. Would it be better to not add the verbal until I figured it out?>
I do think a tunnel threadle is an important cue in all of the agility organizations in North America – and you can keep seek as your cue! And we will train the puppy to it and review it with Brighton 🙂
The laps turns are going really well! You were on time with all of them except one where you caught yourself being a little too early.
Fantastic job adding the prop! He was really good about coming to the your hand and then hitting the prop after the turn. SUPER!
His only question was on the way back after a treat – come to your hand or to the prop? When you want him to come back to your hand with the prop there – shaking the hand helped! And you can also fully extend your hand towards him – lock your elbow instead of bending it. That will make a bigger visual of the hand.
Excellent start on the strike a pose game! Your mechanics were *perfect* so he nailed it. Since this went so well, you can move to the next steps where you can have a reward target on the ground.
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
>We’re stocking up before our big road trip (CA to WA to AZ to IL). >
That will be epic!!! And you can get very fast Amazon delivery to the IL facility if needed (speaking from experience haha)
>So far in walking through crowds of people and dogs he mostly focuses on me, if he sees a “friend” which is kind of all people and the dogs I’ve checked for puppy friendliness and let him meet he may look at them but typically reorients to me. I try to say “Go say ‘hi friend’” to let him know he can go visit. Without that he’s actually gotten pretty good about not electing to go see people/dogs.>
Excellent! I consider practicing a lot of this stuff to be ‘adolescent pre-hab’ so the neural pathways are there for the behavior to be easily accessed, when he has BIG FEELINGS in adolescence 🙂 The goal is that we basically don’t see a lot of typical undesired adolescent behavior as his brain & body moves through different stages, because the desired behavior is well-practiced and easily accessed.
>For moving pattern games in the past I’ve done the “1, 2, 3” game. Do you have others in mind in that situation that don’t involve the stopping, bending down (and possibly triggering any thoughts from other dogs about a cookie on the ground) that the back and forth and up and down game do?>
I do variations on back & forth and up & down plus auto-check-ins that have the same benefits while keeping the puppy close and not attracting other dogs. If there is a little bit of space, I will drop a treat a little behind and a little off to the side as I keep moving – so the pup grabs it and then hustles to catch up (all on a 6 foot leash, so the treat is close and I am moving slowly).
The auto-check-ins are a variation on ‘look at that’ – I mark looking at me as I move (or stand still, depending on the situation) then reward from my hand in tight spaces. They don’t have to look away before looking at me, but it is also fine if they do because that tells me what is catching their attention. If the pup is concerned about something, I do shift to more of a look at that game. This one is my main pattern in flyball environments because those are jammed packed with people and dogs
>Also, I see verbals is up this week. >
Yes, time to start adding directionals 🙂
>I am a data nerd, so they are all here in my Notion database of verbals (try not to laugh)
I would never laugh! I applaud 👏 you! I am sure you have seen a couple of my spreadsheets and flow charts LOL!! Nerding is the best and the Notion database is really cool 🙂 I think you have recognized 91 words/phrases that you use – so fun!!
>So, I’ve got LOTS of words, I’ve actually played more with Ripley lately with not giving verbals at time and letting my motion and position give more info since I find sometimes a sudden verbal is more likely to cost us a bar or a blown contact. >
Totally agree that there is a balance of verbal use in handling – we don’t need to say ALL the things ALL the time, especially when our physical cues are right there. And in training, a bit of proofing as in “I might shout over the bar, keep your feet up please and thank you”.
One thing to consider that I don’t see on your chart but you probably do to an extent already: the delivery style of the verbals absolutely helps processing. If the brain has to devote *less* bandwidth to processing a verbal cue, the brain can then devote *more* bandwidth to mechanics such as RDW, jumping. What I mean by that is if we say the directionals on course basically the same way (volume, length, pitch, etc) then the brain has to work a lot harder to weed out the actual word. But if the words are not just words, but also super specific volume/length/pitch/rhythms then the brain doesn’t have to work that hard. That results in quicker responses and better mechanics.
It is actually a bit musical, and studies support different types of music being processed differently in dog brains (in a helpful way – science for the win!). Forward cues are loud, long, emphasize vowels. Tight turns are quiet, super steady & rhythmic (quicker than the forward cues), emphasizing consonants. And so on – the verbal directional and obstacle name is designed to match what we want our bodies (human and canine) to produce. And it works SUPER well once we rewire our brains to do it (takes some practice and some caffeine haha)
Humans are very musical and it turns out, dogs are actually pretty musical too. Case in point:
Note how he changes his rhythm to match the changes in the song like at :31 and :48. And like any drummer… he sometimes rushes the beat LOL! But then moderates back to catch it correctly before rushing again (darned drummers LOL!)
>I plan to use the same words for both dogs
OMG yes, the same verbals for both dogs is the only way forward 🙂 2 different sets of verbals would be a lot more work than needed!!
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I watched the video in slo mo and I was totally turned into her. So interesting.>
Right! I watched it in slow motion because she was so convinced that was what you wanted. And sure enough, she was reading cues to come to you. Good girl!!
She did well on the out session and you had plenty of distance to the prop!!! She either smacked the prop clearly (these best smacks were on your right side) or she went to the prop or over it/past it on the other side (these were all on your left). So I agree: definitely rewardable because she got the lead changes and went to the target. It was interesting to see how her mechanics differed on each side, but that is normal and will not be a problem on a jump.
>I’ve ordered the cheese balls so we shall see. More rain coming. So, indoors again for a few days.>
Bummer about the rain! But I bet the cheese balls will be fun to use to set up little scent/search games in the house! That is a good way to keep her busy without having to run around outside.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
>Interesting!! It varies, sometimes I can get toy play right off the bat! I need to pay attention if it’s before I unload my bag in the training area that I get toy play! She knows I have the Goods and what we are doing in that space, I can’t imagine she doesn’t by now! 😀 Something to play around with for sure!>
Yes, you will probably see shifts in reward value all the way through adolescence – that is really normal. Remember when she wanted the toy over treats? Now she is a bit more of a foodie. This is normal and evens out as they grow up 🙂
> This time I put her in a crate in the bathroom lol however the soft sided crate was not zipped as you will see as she makes her entrance LOL!
That was so funny! She made her entry from the bathroom right on cue LOL!!
She did well here! She might have thought you wanted interaction with the bowl or snuffle ball because it was so close to the prop and you were not cueing anything. The snuffle ball was right on her line when she entered the room. So you can have something exciting off to the side more, and cue engagement with the prop by sending her to it, or doing the parallel path game.
> Question! @ about 25 sec Sunnie looked at me for information, I wasn’t sure what to do 🙁 “Waiting out” with a puppy is probably not ideal right?>
You were great! Sometimes we wait to see what the puppy offers – it was less than 3 seconds as she thought about it then made a great choice. So waiting is often perfectly fine to do, as long as there is a high chance of success (there was here) and as long as the puppy is not stressed (she was not stressed). So when shaping or playing one of these games, it is good to wait and see! If she looked stressed or failure was very likely, then it is good to help. But waiting here was a bit learning moment!
Great job!
TracyHi!
> I have not had a lot of success in the trial scene in a very long time>
I think that had more to do with dog health issues and not training or handling issues. You’ve had a run of crappy luck with that but Chaser says he is going to change all that 🙂
He is a good boy to get the right answers even with a slightly sideways setup 🙂 That is why we reward them so much – they cover us when we are wrong 🤣😂🦖
Hi!
How are you holding up in the blizzard?!!
>I was looking at the RC video but I’m not sure about trying it if I have to run. Hamstring is not even close to doing much besides walking. Not sure if I have the space to try it. I’ll see if I might be able to set it up. I think we have done all the other games that I’m able to.>
You can try sending him to the start wing from further away and walk through the RC line – as long as you are moving to the center of the bar he might be able to read the info in time? Or we can wait til your hammie feels better 🙂
> I just opened a new package of the Viva Raw turkey and he would NOT eat it. So I gently cooked it on the stove and then he did eat it. I have a lot of the Viva Raw puppy blend (beef/turkey) in the freezer. I was going to use it up and move on to adult food. So he is boycotting raw? >
He might have a taste aversion to it if he was eating it and not feeling well? Rotate to a different protein for a bit and then come back to it. I have had this happen and it is never a long term thing.
>Seems weird that the new delivery I got was when this all started although I seem to remember a bit of hesitency prior to that. I e-mailed the company to see if anything changed.>
It is possible they changed something or there is a bad batch?
> I hate dealing with dogs that won’t eat. So stressful. And I don’t want to set a precedent of jumping thru hoops to make them eat.>
I think it was more of a GI upset that caused a taste aversion to it temporarily. You can cook it less and less each day and see if that helps?
Keep me posted and stay warm!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree, he did great here!
On the lap turns, low and slow is key – when you were too early like at :15, he correctly read it as a throw back to the other side of the wing. But when you keep your hand low and let him get almost to the hand (2 inches away) then step back: perfect!I thought the timing on all of the tandem turns (pre-cursors to the true threadle wrap) was spot on, especially when you added speed coming from wrapping the other wing! Low hands were great here 🙂
> to help with the jumping which is why I was lifting my arm lol!!!>
For self-preservation, you can try having your hand closed as if there is a cookie in it, but not actually having a cookie in it 🙂 And looking at your hands will also help him follow them.
Zig zags – nice job rewarding the stays! He did well here too. My only suggestion is a change in his start position: Have him sit right next to the wing, no more than a foot away from it, facing you with his shoulder next to it (not facing the bar). That way he will immediately have to start changing leads. When he was a bit too far from the jump here and facing the bar, he was coming in straight to the first bar which made the 2nd bar harder too. So having him right next to the jump and facing you instead of the bar will really increase the challenge.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!! I am excited learn more about Gromit and I bet there are plenty of things Carmen can do here too 🙂
Have fun!
Tracy
Almost forgot this – I grabbed screenshots so you can see what really helped him and what looked like pressure to the backside of the jump:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OJnUg_5MI7vprq3loXosAgTSFprgXSI0OZb60xm22Q8/edit?usp=sharingT
Hello! Scotch is really cool and quite brilliant. And I love that you titled the video “Evil arm” hahahahahahaha
I think having this distance with him will serve you well on course, and we can definitely keep the when we need it and use cues to bring him in tight tight tight when needed.
> as he started out saying “yeah, since your so close, I’m just going to go around this way”.>
He is SUPER good about reading handling cues, especially pressure on the lines and your feet. On the first rep, when you released, your left leg took a step to the backside wing and so that is where he went. Note the immediate difference at :14 and after that when you did not take the big step – he came right in for a lovely wrap each time. At 1:19 and 1:26 you rotated too much so he actually turned too tight! Good boy! I think the rotation plus the direct eye contact was more than needed on one jump… but probably be what he needs when you add more speed on the sequences
Other side at 1:51 – you were not really connected before the release and facing the backside line
Compare to 2:11 where you were moving straight up the line and released facing the line you wanted, then gave the turn cues. Super!!! And on the first rep on the other side (2:50) as well as the very last rep (3:12), when you moved into ithe release facing forward then showed the brake arm – gorgeous!!
Onwards to the sequences! Based on what he showed us here – when you are working to get the tight wraps, let him see you make a transition from accelerating on the line to decelerating facing the line you want, then slide in the brake arm and eye contact. I think if you accelerate then hit the brakes HARD and show him the brake arm/eye contact, he might feel that as a cue to push away around the jump. So adding the transition into decel will make a massive difference and we can play with the timing so you are sure of when to do it. My guess is that the decel will start when he exits the tunnel if the wrap is on the jump after the tunnel.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hello and welcome back! Reacher is looking great!!
He was VERY responsive to the brake arm but also held his commitment really well.
On the wing-to-jump drills, you were varying the timing and how strong of a brake arm you were using – this was good! I think you were mainly doing it to get a feel for your mechanics (3 arms are not needed, I promise!!) and he was turning beautifully! The best reps were when you had a bit of decel into the turn, as you can see on the sequences:
At 1:04 you had decel happening before he made a takeoff decision, so decel plus the brake arm kind of at the takeoff spot worked to set up a great turn! Fast & tight!
1:19 was even better because you looked more comfy and rotated sooner.
The rep at 1:33 was cool to see: you were a little late on the decel so he was jumping straight as if preparing for a GO line. But yoy had your brake arm visible so WOWZA he turned tight when he saw the rotation!! The brake arm helps us not need to be perfect in timing!
> Had a pretty messy circle wrap as well, but did not do another rep until I could review the video.>
On that one, you were a little in the way 🙂 When you are ahead of him or parallel to him for a circle wrap, your line should take you to where the wing and the bar meet so he can get past you and start the turn. He was a little wide here because you were pushing onto the line he needed to get on to make a tight wrap 🙂 You can decel a bit at the wing/bar junction to let him get past (using the brake arm there too) you then move forward again after he has gotten past ot begin the turn to the wing.
At the end, you did the RC wrap and he was a shade wide – this is where decel will help tighten it too. You deceled while he was in the tunnel then had to accelerate again to get the RC line commitment – it was that acceleration that sent him wide. I call it a reverse transition, when we decelerate then accelerate. Ideally it is accelerate then decelerate. With the 20 foot tunnel, you will need to run all the way to the tunnel entry and along the tunnel to set the RC without ending up waiting for him. The other option there is the blind to the wrap, which would get the acceleration because there would be serious hustle needed to get there 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! Off to a great start here and fingers crossed the snow goes away!!!
>No surprise – neither dog needed the in-your-face brake arm>
I would have wagered that your dogs would NOT need a sledgehammer approach to the wrap brake arm 🙂
Looking at Kaladin’s videos:
>He already has pretty tight wraps (when they are cued in time), but I do think the brake arm tightened it up a bit more>
This raises a good point: the brake arm allows us to NOT have to be as perfect in timing because it brings an extra layer to the cues! When you were starting him from the stay on one jump, the cue was definitely late. And it was a great contrast to the 2nd rep which did not have a brake arm or exit line connection – wider! Good to see him keeping us in line with his feedback!! That last rep where you had the brake arm AND exit line connection was just gorgeous – tight and fast!
Great job with the exit line connection on the FCs and the BCs – lovely turns and connection throughout!!
> (also – he’s just not as into chasing long dangling toys so I used his favorite frizzer. >
That is fine – the toy in the opposite hand is more for the human than for the dog 🙂 It can be a frizz or a treat.
>remembered that the brake arm waits until after the dog goes past you, but was I pointing in the right place to the landing side of his wrap?>
You can think of it more as when they are catching up/passing you, not after he is past you because that made brake hand for the backside wrap was a little late on rep 1 (he was just about at the wing) so he tried to adjust and hit the bar with his back feet. The 2nd rep was a shade earlier and he jumped nice and tight! You can use that opposite arm as part of the commitment cue, so he sees it when he is still 5 feet or more away from the entry side of the wing. And it pointed more towards his eyes – I don’t think you need to point to the landing side of the wrap for him,
Looking at the sequences: it took a couple of reps to get the feel for adding the brake arm then it looked really good!
Rep 1 at :08 can be sooner (bar tick)
Rep 2 at :19 was definitely sooner but also a little disconnected and punched, so yes it did look like a threadle wrap, good boy!!!
The rep at :35 was definitely smoother but also you can think of it as adding the opposite arm to the inside arm, to soften it up a little (he doesn’t need the sledgehammer that Hot Sauce does LOL)There were a couple of questions from him but it was not about the arms, it was more about the transitions:
> Rep around 1:09 – he drifted out a bit to the outside but then angled back for a tight wrap to the right.>
The softer application of the brake arm and timing were good! He was a little drifty because you had a reverse transition: you decelerated when he was in the tunnel then accelerated when he exited, so he read the acceleration. The decel into the turn was late due to that – he had alrady been thinking you wanted a more extended takeoff spot by the time he saw the decel (too late to adjust). The same thing happened on the RC on the last rep (reverse transition) so he was a little wide on that. So keep accelerating until you move into the decel and apply the brake arm – that will be lovely like at 1:28!
Looking at Lift’s videos:
Exit line connection looked great throughout, she really drove to the correct side with no questions and your timing or position didn’t have to be perfect at all! No worries at all about the subtle shifting on these short drills, you will have an easier time getting perfect lines on the sequences.Looking for the boing on the wraps:
First wrap was great
2nd wrap was great
3rd wrap was great
(timing, transition, connection, brake, exit line arm – all great, no questions or judgement).Do you have any video of her doing the boing on wraps recently? I would bet one of the elements is missing (timing, transition, connection, brake) so that is where she was boinging. We can look at boing videos and compare!
Sequences:
>-She was reading my brake arm to wrap left as a RC wrap right – twice! At the time I thought maybe she thought I was starting to drive the diagonal line, but I can see in the video that I am heading straight to the inside wing.>
You were on a line to the left wrap wing, but the transition is what cued the rear crosses. Darned transitions! What was happening there was that you were driving to the wrap wing without decelerating into the wrap – then as you leaned in to add the pressure of the brake arm, the motion plus pressure turned your shoulders and feet to the rear cross line. She was correct (and seemed surprised when you stopped), reward those as if she was correct or you can keep going back to the tunnel so you don’t make her angry LOL
When you did it on just the jump: you were upright and decelerated into the wrap, so the physical cues all said wrap left. Yay!
You also had a lovely decel in the transition at 1:12 and 1:35 and she wrapped super well! So it is the transition: instead of getting to the wing and punching the brake arm in, you can decelerate based on where she is: no later than halfway to the jump (probably earlier on bigger sequences with more speed) you can start slowing down and adding the opposite arm to the dog side arm.The timing is key – you did decel on the rep at 2:16, but it was as she was already gather for takeoff so she was already committed to turning to the RC line.
The rep at 2:41 had good decel and position but you were not connected and rotated early, so she barked 🙂 But the decel was clearly indicating wrap, she did not turn to the RC line at all.
She liked the double tunnel at the end! Woohoo!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Here’s another couple coats. He definitely likes a coat in colder weather – and I like dressing him in coats >
Ha! My whippets approve this message – it is all about the coats 🙂
It was smart of you to change plans and just play with the tunnel. It is pretty different than a puppy tunnel! He looked pretty happy here so you can give him a ‘warm up’ of going through the utnnel then add in the smiley face game 🙂
Minny pinny – He gave good feedback here! Based on the line up (coming off your left side and facing the right turn line) both Skiz and I thought he was correct on the first rep and maybe the 2nd one too. To get him turning away, you can have him facing the bar you want and you can even place the reward or a target (like an empty bowl) in between the first and 2nd bumps.
>What would improve how I handle “errors”?>
This is an important element of training!
> In retrospect, I shouldn’t have thrown my hands up and made a big deal of it, especially given he was already slowing down, hesitating and lip-licking.>
Agree! We don’t need to make a big marker or big deal if the behavior is incorrect – instead, you can use a reset cookie in the form of a ‘good boy’ and reset him at your side with a cookie, for the next rep. So there is still reinforcement for effort while we humans can figure out if we were unclear (sometimes we are unclear 😂🤣)
Then when he gets it right: giant party! Woohoo! With the reward thrown on the line you want. Then reset for the next rep. That will keep him working happily and understanding what you want.
>I almost feel like I need to have variable reinforcement for Skizzle – where I reward every effort, but have higher value rewards for “correct” efforts>
Yes, I am a big fan of rewarding for effort (especially when my cues are not clear). That can come in the form of bringing him in for a reset – he doesn’t have to do anything to earn the effort reward, because putting up with me is definitely what earned it 🙂 And then having the BIG party will help him understand that we both got it right. And also, rewarding effort allows us humans to get feedback from the dog: if the dog keeps doing it ‘wrong’ then we humans can change what we are doing to clarify things.
The 2nd minny pinny session was really good! You had the big happy party when he got it as you intended and he was happy to keep offering the behavior.
>. I’m fascinated by dogs who understand verbals, having had a hound dog who was very good with signals, but not so much with verbals.>
Out of curiousity: Scent hound or sight hound? I have a bunch of sighthounds now and I am kind of shocked by how well they do with verbals.
>. I’m sure Skizzle doesn’t know the difference between the left and right verbals yet – but we’ll work on getting there.>
The key is getting the verbal happening before any movement is added. That way the verbal is the antecedent to the behavior, so he will learn what it predicts and start doing that. To help him learn the verbal – hold him and say the verbal 4 or 5 times while you are still holding him, no one is moving. Then after he hears it – let go and then you can give an arm/leg step if needed. You will find he will start to go without needing the arm/leg step but for now I think he needs it – and he will still learn the verbal as long as it happens before and separately from movement. If it happens during movement, the movement takes priority. They do eventually learn the verbals but it takes a bit longer.
>>It’s clear he doesn’t recognize “Ok” as a release. Do you mean when he was stopping at the barrel?
Ha – laughing at my (tired) self. I got ahead of myself – this comment pairs better with the exercise (jump grids) that I had done in person before I sent you this video.>I can see a bit of not being sure about the reelase in the 2nd minny pinny video here – so I think the order of festivities being verbal then you let go then you step/move your hand will help him with that. The same can happen with your regular release on a jump grid: say it then you can move/step/point/drop a toy. As long as it is not simultaneous, you will find that the release begins to take on more value & understanding, and he will begin to move.
Great job here!
Tracy
