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Hi!
Yes, the forecast for the week was icky and at least it will cool down a little in coming days? Maybe?
Yay for Nox nailing them!!!
>I struggled to figure out how to keep going after she missed a jump when the tunnel was in the way. In hindsight, I guess I could have just thrown the toy the correct direction she was supposed to go anyways. I didn’t want to send her in the tunnel and reward since that’s what she thought I wanted anyway (at least the coming in to me part).>
You can call her in to you and reset with a reward, partially to pay her and partially to line up for the next sequence.
>I don’t have an explanation for what I was doing on the very first rep of the first sequence, lol. I don’t think there was any thought process to that except old habits die hard.>
Ha! That is a great spot for a reset reward – the handling definitely pulled her off the line on that very first rep.
Great job accelerating more and throwing the reward! After that!
Seq2: This angle is definitely harder for the dogs. You can throw the reward as soon as she looks at the line to affirm that yes, she should look out there and head to that line.
Once she was on the line, she stayed on it really well!Seq 3:
The opening to this went great! The BCat 1:27 was a shade early for the big distance, you can let her get past the tunnel and look at 5. That is what you did at 1:43 and even better at 2:18 and it worked really well! As soon as you are finishing the blind, do a BIG reconnect so she sees the new side and start your decel and hand and verbal cues for the wrap on 6.A spin can work there too because it gets your feet turned to the new direction sooner than the decelerated post turn/brake arms.
Seq 4: Adding the hard line from seq 2, getting past the tunnel needed more support from you and less arm at 2:41. The arm up to send to the jump can inadvertently turn your shoulders to the tunnel.
At 3:11, you were closer to the line and your arm was down, and she got it really well! Yay!She had a question about the backside at the end of this sequence. She pays attention to everything and had a valid point:
At 3:16, excellent cues for the backside. Great timing!
At 3:17, as she was landing, you pulled your left arm back and turned your feet away from the backside line, and it looked like a threadle cue for a moment, so she started to come in to threadle. You pushed her back out at 3:18 and she saved your bacon by getting it at the last minute. GOOD GIRL! So remember to stay parallel to the backside line til you see her locking onto it, and don’t rotate your shoulders to much or turn your feet.Seq 5: looked really good!!! She is staying on her lines really well and your connection/timing is generally strong. You held the parallel line better to the backside at the end and she got it really well. My only suggestion on this one is that same as for sequence 3: you can make faster/clearer connection after the BC 5-6, to tighten her line there and start the turn cues sooner too.
Seq 6 went really well also! For the different 5-6 line, keep moving to your position on 7 and use a GO to keep her out on the line (the jump verbal might get muddy because there are a lot of jumps out there LOL!) Ideally, as she is taking off for 6, you are already rotated and standing still in your threadle position.
Nice job sending to 8 with the ‘right’ verbal, and decel – that was a lovely turn!
The switch was a little wide at 4:26 (you had a lot of acceleration and said jump which cued extension, then said switch as she took off). She drove to the off course tunnel partially because the turn was a little wide on the previous jump, but mainly because that was the obstacle you were running towards at 4:28. She couldn’t see enough connection there to know to stay on your right side because your arm was up and that was closing your shoulders/blocking connection. So based on motion and proximity, she was locked on to the tunnel until you opened up connection a little more and she was you wanted her on your right side. Good save (and she only cursed at you a little 🤣)Great job on these (and also great job adding startline rewards!
Tracy
Thanks for sending the start line clip! I look at it from what accidental cues are the dogs reading which are associated with the release?
>this a terrible training session in terms of choices I made. >
I read this and was steeling myself for something FAR worse – tempers flaring, etc. You stayed relatively calm! Maybe you sent the wrong video 🤣😂🤣
When the dogs go to the backside, that is a handler error – too much pressure on the line because of our position relative to the dog (where we are standing/facing/stepping) and the angle of the dog’s stay might be facing the backside. You can see that on the firs rep where you are still ‘inside’ the line of the wing and she leans into the backside line then self-releases. I think she self-released because you didn’t release, and normally you would have released by then.
For forward focus, if my dog is looking at the wrong spot, I will lower my arm (basically saying “not that jump”) then raise it again (“try again, dog”).
At :33, you were in about the same spot, she looked at the front (no release) then at the line to the back of the jump (release!) so she went to the back, as the release affirmed the line to the backside. Good spot for a reward as you reset.
1:05 – she is leaning to the backside when you released (you were tucked in too close, on the inside of the wing).
So the easiest thing to do to NOT get the backside, is to move yourself away more laterally. That takes the pressure off the line so she doesn’t confuse it with the backside line cue.
> But as the game of agility starting getting more fun and she got a little older, it has become inconsistent. >
Try to add more arousal before training any stays, and also video everything. I would bet you are accidentally pairing releases with something. It could be a certain amount of time before the release (3 seconds is something we all do by accident) or when we get to the jump or when we reconnect, etc etc. Dogs are amazing at reading all of this!
I also notice that when you lead out for real, you have a lot of muscle tension. That increases excitement for her… which we really don’t need. The increased muscle tension is what we use when we want MORE excitement about releasing from the stay LOL!
So you can lead with more chill. If having your arm up looks like muscle tension, you can lead out swinging your arms around. I do this partially to keep the arms relaxed and partially so I don’t pair the release with any arm movement.
> In other words, I don’t *think* that my nerves played a part in the startline issue surfacing. >
I don’t think it is nerves as much as it is she is anticipating something, creating the release. And also getting frustrated with being fixed a lot.
> it’s one more repetition practicing what I don’t want.>
This is true but we need to tell her how she is right and not how she is wrong – telling her she is wrong is going to get *more* movement, not less.
>I started fixing her feet moving because she WILL turn and face me instead of the first obstacle. She doesn’t always stand up, but her butt will rotate so her whole body is facing me. >
This might be causing frustration (for you both!). Fixing her feet is punishment and also that is generally pretty delayed, so she is not associating the punishment with the behavior it is intended to give feedback on. She might not even realize she is moving her feet.
So for now, take the pressure off the start line stay so it is filled with success. Then everyone relaxes and the stays magically get even better.
You can do this 2 ways:
Stick with short successful lead outs, with relaxed body language, making sure you are not accidentally pairing the release with anything like movement or arms or connection.
Don’t worry about if she moves her feet towards you on a lateral lead out, as long as she sticks to her end of the deal: she cannot move forward to the jump, she needs to take the jump you are cueing and she needs to keep the bar up. That is a deal that has created a lot of highly successful start line stays!
>I was also thinking that maybe she needed clarity that no movement is acceptable so that she wasn’t guessing what was allowed and what wasn’t. Is moving a foot across her body ok but moving 2 feet isn’t? Can she move both front feet as long as her butt doesn’t rotate? Can she do any moving if her butt never gets up? >
This all assumes she realizes you are giving feedback on foot movement. She might not realize it and might not realize her feet are moving. The dopamine release of simply entering the ring leads to movement (dopamine really drives movement). This is not happening on an operant level (“I choose to move my feet!”) so she might not have a conscious awareness of it.
And when she freezes in position? Big rewards! I do a lot of crazy freeze dance games with my dogs: tug tug bark bark tug tug FREEZE! in a stay… reward 🙂
>I assume it is an arousal issue, and I know she is more likely to get up when she’s tired or in an exciting environment. >
Arousal, dopamine, depletion, late adolescence, etc…. All normal. Keep doing the stuff you are working on separately, be sure you do it with the toy outside the ring, and keep doing crazy high arousal games like these:
I also let my dogs choose their position on the start line. When the leash comes off and they are in the right place, I jut say “stay”. They settle into a sit, stand or down – then I lead out. That has been effective and easy to maintain, plus it tells me about the arousal level. For example: if I get a sit as the choice from CB, he is pretty chill. If I get a stand from CB, he is VERY excited. Good info!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Pop out 1 – nice job on the one and done! The threadle wrap on 6 was especially strong! Only one suggestion:
To get more explosiveness to jump on these types of openings, use a line up where he is facing the jump and you can cue forward focus, releasing with the wrap verbal. That will allow you to do the FC sooner (before he takes off) to get the best turn there.>Then played with the right wing, which that change went fine>
That right turn on 1 was a lot faster than the left turn on the 1-2-3 line! And he was very close to the jump so had no momentum into it. You can start him further back to get even more speed 🙂
>we then had problems getting the backside @4.>
That looked to be a combination of you blocking the line to the wing and also pulling forward with your dog-side arm/shoulder which might indeed look like a pull/send cue for a tunnel discrimination.
You were staying at 3 longer than needed – you can send him to 3 a he exits 2, then go directly to the position on 4 where the wing meets the bar.
>watched video and I couldn’t really tell why it was happening, so when in doubt increase connection and we got it>
Yay for watching the video! Increasing connection kept your dog-side arm out of the way, plus you were a little further over and showing the wing at 1:36, so he got it nicely. You were kinda blocking the wing again at 2:05 but your arm was down so he came in and took the backside.
>Happy with my choice from 4 to the end, don’t like my orchestra conductor arms at the threadle wrap.>
Conductors are cool people! LOL! Don’t worry about it – the arms are not blocking connection and he is reading the cue really well. If it ain’t broke… don’t fix it 🤣 plus you are doing it fluently and I don’t want you to have to think about it at all.
Pop Out 2:
The blind on takeoff of 3 worked really well each time!!!On the first rep, you can keep moving through the send to 4, so you are ahead of him at the tunnel – that way before he enters, he sees and hears the turn cues for the exit. At :16, he was entering when you called him and started to rotate, so the exit was wide. Start those cues when he is still 6 feet away from entering the tunnel.
Compare to the last rep at 1:09 where gave a clear verbal (‘turn’) and rotation before he entered so he had a great exit! That cut off a significant amount of time!
BC on 7-8 is a great choice! Start it as soon as you see him locking onto the backside wing, just before he arrives at it. At :20 the BC started when he took off, so he had to adjust his line after landing.
On the 3rd run, you did a FC there starting just as he was arriving at the backside wing – that is great timing and set up a great line!
On the 2nd run, he had a better turn on the tunnel exit because at :42, when he was about 4 feet or so away from entering, he saw you decel and move away. You can call his name at that time too, so the verbal supports the handling.
That set up a good blind to the backside of 7 and keeping him on your right worked well too. It turns out that this option was faster than the BC or FC options on the line here!
Pop out 3:
Good job making sure he is lined up to face the backside line here at the beginning! Since he was holding his stay really well, you can reward then move him over, or release and reward jump 1, then reset. He looked a bit confused when you came back to move him over, and we don’t want him to think it was his error.He and I were both questioning why he didn’t get rewarded or get to keep going on rep 1 at :30. It looks like he got it right by coming to the correct side of 2 with the ok release and maybe you said in once too (even after a small question) and you praised… but didn’t reward and went back to reset him to do it again. Even with the praise, that all says “you are wrong” – note how he was heading off to where you might have a reward, and then also note his big yawn when you sat him at the start line at :40. So even if he is incorrect on jump 2… keep going!
The rest went well! You can use more countermotion on the 4 jump by sending to the backside and moving forward past the exit wing more directly: that will help you clear his line sooner as you do the blind cross. The goal is that you and Sly are both on the takeoff side at the same time 🙂
Looking at the 4 Corner setup:
>Sequence 1 went well, Sequence 2 not as much. I think my setup made Sequence 2 harder than it had to be (tight spacing, into the cluttered space, I initially had a wingless jump….) but I think that even if those things hadn’t been part of it that this was still more difficult for us than Sequence 1 >
I agree that sequence 2 is harder! The setup is definitely ‘flatter’ making the jump on the other side of the tunnel a bit harder to see. There is also not as much acceleration into it, to help propel him out on the line (just the way the sequence is built – more verbal emphasis on this one for sure!)
Seq 1: This is going well – the jump verbal helps and you might not need your arm as far back as they were here . You can close your shoulders a little more forward when he is driving up the line, because it is easier to run and will keep him looking forward more.
Seq 2: get more reward out on the line – when he did get the jump on the other side of the tunnel, throw a reward. You placed it at the end which helps jumpstart the behavior. If you place the reward, you can also balance with cueing the tunnel (while the reward is placed in the same spot) and NOT the jump 🙂 That way he is still responding to cues/learning the lines, which makes it easier to fade the lure of the placed toy.
Great job! Let me know how he does on the rest of the 4 Corners games!
Tracy
Hi again!
>It’s SO much cooler today.>
Jealous. Still 10000 degrees here.
Opening:
I think she starting at 2 instead of the 1 jump on the map? The 1 jump here should be the blue jump. It adds a different lateral lead out opportunity 🙂
Backside on 4 at :28 and :47 (video 1) – good send and countermotion moving to 5. To help her take the jump, you can shift your connection to the landing spot and throw the reward to the landing spot (close to he entry wing) as you keep running. The timing of the throw is as soon as she arrives at the entry wing. You rewarded after she took the jump, but the timing of the reward to create the default behavior should be as soon as she gets to the entry wing. That will get her automatically looking at the bar and jumping it, rather than looking at you at all. And the placement of it close ot he entry wing will get her to not lookat you as much – the rewards here were closer to you and the reward at :47 was after she exited the jump.
On the 2nd video, it was hard to see her based on the camera angle but it looks like she went past 4 at :30 – that is where you can open your shoulders more for the serp and look back to (and point to) the landing side as you run forward. And the default games I posted above will help too! You ran through it with better open shoulders and connection at 1:06 and it looks like she got it!
Great job trying to layer the tunnel while she exits the weaves! I think the Go verbal was too general, and it is often associated with tunnels. Try a jump verbal! The out verbal at 1:29 helped! On thew 2nd video, the angle was great for seeing the weave exit. It looks like she had already decided to turn to you when she exited, so begin to cue the out-jump before she exits. Ideally, you are cueing what is next when she is at pole 8 or sooner. And yes, she should finish the weaves 🙂 The concept is the same as cueing what is next after a running dog walk while the dog is on the up ramp – it tells them how to exit and they should finish the obstacle correctly 🙂 She got it on the 2nd run on the 2nd video, but the first run is the most insightful so we want to be sure she is hearing her cues nice and early.
The FC on 9 was a little late on the first video but spot on at 1:39 on video 2! That created a really nice turn!
For the double tunnel stuff in the 2nd half of the course:
Don’t go as far up to 10-11 so you can control the 14-15 line more 🙂 That created a bit too much acceleration after 10 and towards 14.It was hard to see where she went after 11-12 on video 2 – but you put up a threadle arm so she must have been wide. That is likely due to accelerating forward for 10 and 11, Hanging back and using connection and verbals will help make that line tighter.
And you can be closr to 14 and potentially use a brake arm, to get the turn to 15. Even though 15 is a backside, there is so much acceleration into 14 that she was wide and a brake arm (outside arm joining inside arm) will help tigthen that up.
Speaking of brake arms: You did a beautiful brake at at 1:49 on the 2nd video to get a turn to the 17 tunnel, while you hung out at the end of it to get the turn to 18. That worked really well! You went up a little too far to 17 on the first video which made it harder to get the exit, and ended up with the off course based on your line & cue at 1:45 on video 1. You can do a serp-to-blind on the exit of the 17 tunnel – the FC added one or two extra strides for her, and I think the serp-to-blind will be perfect!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>and I actually watched the first video before we tried again! #goals>
YOU ROCK!!!!
>She’s still bailing when she jumps towards me, so I would love some coaching on how to convince her of her job.>
Yes, she has some questions on that – it only showed up on the 6 jump here but I have ideas for you!
Video 1:
> I was focused on carrying on in the first one. We clearly need some distance weave work. >
Carrying on is an important skill! Nice job with that!
Loved your ‘mark’ cue moment at the beginning of the run at :24 on the first video. She was looking at you, then had to figure out where to look – and you helped by cueing it again. And she didn’t break the stay 🙂 You probably don’t need ‘ok’ and the wrap verbal, because by the time she heard the wrap verbal she was already over jump 1.
I also loved the mark cue on the 2nd video – she was totally looking at 2 and when you didn’t release and asked for it again, she looked at 1. Super! Remember to mix in quiet praise and throwing rewards to her, to maintain this great behavior!
Found 2-3 nicely on video 1! On video 2, you were a little disconnected at :28 2-3 so she came off the line, you were cueing the left before she looked at 4. More connection on the 2nd rep helped support the line nicely!
Speaking of jump 4… the strategy on 3-4 directly impacts whether she takes 6 or not 🙂
On the first video, you don’t have time to rotate towards her for the 3-4 line and still get up to 6 to show her what you want (that might be why she went past it – you were accelerating til she was on the backside of it then closed your shoulder forward – more on that below).
On the 2nd video, you were still a bit too far up at 4 trying to control that line, which put you behind for the 6 backside. You stood still to get her to come in at :58 and before she did, you accelerated to 7 with a closed shoulder so she went past it. At 1:03 she got it, with decel from you. But that decel followed by the closed shoulder changed the line to 7 so she had a question there. A couple of visuals:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1JOwjNrrkMHp10Wau9t9B3q3ocD8A6idfEh0syydGLng/edit?usp=sharing
Strategically, you will want to support 3-4 from more of a distance so that when she exits 5, you are almost all the way to 6 🙂 Getting you closer so you can show serp info (because it is a serp) and also looking at the landing spot will help!
And what to do about getting her to take the bar:
a bunch of ideas! She might need more understanding on how to use her body to jump a bit sideways on those slices. You can revisit this game:building up to these:
And, for handling: these are serpentines, so serp shoulders (arm back, shoulders facing the bar until after she lands from it and looks at the next jump) will definitely help. When she is not coming in, your shoulders are closed forward which is what the cue to layer looks like.
So ideally you would get up there sooner (leaving 3-4) and as she rounds the entry of 6, you would have your serp arm back. For now, you can also look at the landing spot to help her come in (and drop a reward on the landing spot).
While you are doing all that, keep moving because we don’t want decel or stopping to become part of the cue.
In games package 3, we have other ways to make this skill a lot more independent so you don’t need to be as visible and perfect in your handling – the backside cue means ‘go to the other side AND take the jump’ I don’t think she knows that right now 🙂 so we will teach her!
Here is how to get started. We want taking the jump to be a default behavior, so you can start with just 2 wings and a reward you can throw:
When she can do that, add a bar! Keep throwing the reward to the landing spot to build up the default of looking for the bar.
She had a little trouble finding the weaves – finding weaves on that line at that speed is hard for a relatively inexperienced dog so you can converge into them a bit as needed, and you can also isolate the line to the weaves with backchaining to help her with the skill:
ask hre to stay on the landing side of jump 10, and you can be on the other side of the tunnel so you are layering. Lead out a bit and release her forward to the weaves (then reward, of course :)) You can back chain progressively, putting her on the takeoff side of 10, then takeoff side of 9, etc. and rewarding of course 🙂When running it in flow, you don’t have time to praise her after the weaves – it pulled her off of 12 🙂 I think her favorite praise on course is the cue for the next obstacle 🙂
Getting the line to the 15 jump was hard, she was accelerating straight out of the 14 tunnel:
The left verbal at :55 in video 1, and 1:27 in video 2 for 14 tunnel exit was good timing but not strong enough to override your forward motion to get a good turn. Physical cues will help – brake arms and running laterally, so she sees that before she enters and can set up the turn on the exit. Turning her to the right on 15 will make for a sweet line 15-16!
She came in over 16 (I figure this would be a hard jump for her if you are still running) but you held still – you can keep moving and open up your shoulders towards the jump to handle it like a serp.
Jump 17 to the end looked great, both times! Yay!
Great job! Let me know what you think! I see course 2 below and will be back shortly after watching the videos 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>Today we worked on the 4 Corners again but advanced to a portion of Sequence 5 this time. I think he’s starting to get it! Granted, I did move the jumps in a bit and I still have my shorter baby tunnel in there (longer one needs a REALLY good wash first and I’ve been procrastinating!) but I was at least able to get a tunnel layer outside for the first time. Video shows all reps.>
Totally agree – he is definitely getting the layering idea. That didn’t take him long at all, he had really not done any layering until 2 weeks ago LOL! Keeping the obstacles in a little closer togehter was great – he still has to take a lot of strides (7 or so, on the first couple of reps) to get from 2 to 3 simply because of his size. So while it might seem close together, it is still really far apart for the littles.
At the beginning, he was a little distracted by whatever exciting stuff was under the tree, so you can do a little trick action over by jump 1 to pump him up before starting and draw his attention away from whatever small creature was probably hiding in the bushes LOL
He is finding jump 3 nicely!! Nice reward throw on the first rep! You can see how hard he was thinking about it on rep 1 – steam coming out of his ears. And then he was so much more confident on the 2nd rep. YAY! And increasingly confident on each rep.
By the 3rd rep and after it, he was dropping a stride 2-3 which means he was faster and more confident.
You can also reward 4 at 1:31 – he found it really well. Then you had your back turned to him a bit at 1:32, so he was not sure if it was the jump or tunnel so he slowed down waiting for more info.
The last sequence went really well too, he found the first layering on the 1-2-3-4 line nicely but more importantly: went out and got the layering on the 8-9-10 line! Yay!
>On the last rep I was probably kind of cheating by blocking the tunnel – unintentionally though – to help him get the jump, but hey, it worked.>
I don’t think you were blocking it – yes, you ended up maybe one step further than you will eventually need to, but Reacher could have easily gotten into the tunnel if he wanted to. But he was looking at the jump line – super!
>I notice I did probably go out more to #2 than should have had to. I also did feel like I should’ve been moving more, but also I felt like I had nowhere to go. >
You can go clsoer to 1 and 2 to set up the line – he did bettwen when you were a little closer in term of extension, because there was less decel from you. And as you spread it out more, you will be able to run more. But this is a GREAT skill for him to have: run hard while the momma doesn’t run hard 🙂
And you can maintain the element of surprise at all times. Bearing in mind that completing the sequence often has handling near you, there is no need to reward that. You can surprise him by throwing rewards randomly for the distance jumps like 3 and 4 or 8-9-10. Mix it up a lot because that is super motiving to drive out on those lines, when cookies fall from the sky LOL!
>He was a little slow again, but I felt he did well when I could tell he’d really much rather be hunting for critters!>
He was definitely thinky in the beginning, figuring out the layering, and that means extra strides and not as much forward drive to the line. But as the session went along, he got faster and more confident because he was understanding the skill. That is exactly what we want 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning! This went great! She seemed perfectly happy to be in a stay and stare at the jump 🙂 She did not move at all and had great forward focus.
> I had to move my pointing arm slowly at first, to let her settle in.>
Yes- my mantra for putting the arm cue in is “slow and low” 🙂 That slow movement and a low hand help the dog understand that it is NOT a release cue 🙂 For my extra-twitchy dogs on the start line, I also quietly say “stay” as I put the arm cue in, and another option is to use a quiet forward focus cue such as “look”. Totally up to you!
>It was fun to see her be super still in the stand when she was focused on the jump. So this might actually help her “creeping” on the start-line too.>
Yes – it might be very clarifying for her. If you let her settle into a position (I am happy with whichever position the dog chooses, to be honest – but once it is chosen, no moving can happen :)) then move to your lead out and cue the forward focus… then maybe praise quietly… then release. That should help take out the possibility of arm movement or handler motion being the release. And that will lead to a ton of success!
>The first 2 reps, I gave my “wrap cue” for the release and then my normal”okay” release cue on the 3rd rep. I think she is more comfortable on the okay ,,, more confident that she should go but I am thinking she will be better as she gets used to “wrap”.
You probably can not see it on the video but I can tell she is a tad bit more careful but I don’t think I have time to say Ok-wrap.>
You are correct, I didn’t see her being more careful 🙂 But I believe you! And she will get used to releasing with the verbal directional, especially on these types of lead outs.
The next thing to try is being lateral on the lead out. The basement training worked great – I know it was rain-induced 🙂 But it is a great way to introduce the concept before moving it to the agility field where things are very exciting 🙂
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi! This went really well, she is great with the layering skills which allows you to get to the next important position on course pretty easily.
Seq 1: This went great, no questions from Roux 🙂
Seq 2:
> the biggest mistake is her thinking jump 1 is a backside a few times.>
That is a pretty common question from the dog, when we handlers accidentally put too much pressure on the line and it looks like a backside cue. Based on where she was lined up on the first rep of sequence 2, and how you turned to face her and stepped during the release, she was reading it as pressure to the backside line.
The same thing happened at 1:06 & 1:15, where she was kind of lined up looking at the backside and you were facing it – so when you released, that is where she went. You tried to turn after you released but her decision was already made.
Here are some visuals:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1V2Eh3ASv-0bBy7TOT2Tb-6O6TfIgIC55vHXTTq9c6hM/edit?usp=sharing
Compare the accidental backsides to when she took the front side – she was on a better line and you were facing the front side line too (also included in the visuals :))
> I will work on trying to get her to at least eye flick. Right now she just stares at me and waits for her release.>
Getting the eye flick will also help you know if she is looking at the front or back side of the jump.
When she got jump 1 – she had a question about the GO verbal (looked at you at :25 and also at 1:32 when you said Go): was it Go tunnel or Go hup? So you can use your hup cue sooner rather than the go cue there to get her out to the layering line.
Seq 3: Very nice layering set up a great blind cross 5-6! You can tighten up the turn on 6 by decelerating sooner, as soon as you finish the blind and reconnect. You started the decel as she was approaching 6, so she was a little wide. That plus using both hands (brake arms) will get more collection.
And, since this sequence goes back to where you came from, using the spin (FC to BC) at 1:01 totally works, because it turns your feet back to the 7-8 jumps sooner than a post turn does. You can decelerate into the first part of it (FC) sooner too: you were beginning the cue for it as she was gathering for takeoff at 1:01 and 1:50. Ideally, you would be decelerating as she is over 5, and beginning the FC part of the spin as she is maybe halfway between 5 and 6, or sooner depending on how well can will commit and go past you as you rotate.
When you added the backside to the end of the sequence: the layering allowed you to get there really easily at 1:36 and 2:01 to cue the backside! Yay!
For the last sequence: This went really well! Only 2 small tweaks to make it even smoother:
– the opening line layering went great! You can keep moving as you cue the 5-6 line, so she stays out to take 6 while you move into your threadle position on the takeoff side of 7. You waited for a moment to send her past you (and it looks like you got a little too deep there, almost on the other side of 7) at 2:15, so that made you late getting into threadle position (and the forward motion of getting there got too much extension over the 6 jump).– As she is taking 7, you can hang out there and do a big send to 8 and cue the 9 tunnel with verbals – that can strategically put you way ahead to handle the jump after the tunnel. Also, try not to get too far past that 10 jump – you can flip her away then cue the layering while staying on the other side of the tunnel. Less running for you but clear lines for her!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>Right on about the start line! That was Cricket letting me know she wanted her info now! Our souls are linked so I responded! So this try we did a proper startline.>
Ha! Yes, she was totally like LET’S GO NOW 🙂 The start line here let you be in a better opsition to get that backside on 4, because you were further ahead! You were right there at :19 to set the good line to set up the teeter layering moment (looked great here!)
> I did not show that run 1 and 2 I did not get the layer teeter. It was good for me to see the difference. I needed to go into the wrap jump after the dog walk to them show her the commitment line to the teeter.>
That adds extra emphasis on the ability to get 1-2 from further ahead by doing the forward focus lead out with you not being next to her. How far behind her/lateral can you be, and still get her to focus on jump 1? That is a fun thing to play with because it really allows you to strategize the entire opening to get to the next critical spot.
On the way to the 8 jump, she jumped up at yo ua litle (:26). That was her way of saying “more connection please” so be sure to visually reach back to make eye contact as she exits the tunnel. Because she is small, pointing your arm all the way back and down to her nose can help her really see the connection for a smoother line to 8.
You had great connection on the exits of 8 and 9 (the spin looked great!) so she had no questions: your eyes were back to her, and your dog-side shoulder was open so she could see the connection. Super!
Fantastic timing of the tandem turn at :38 to get 12 & 13! That put you way ahead for the blind!
As you exit the blind, look back at her to make the big connection – you were looking forward so she was drifting behind you, waiting for more info at :44. I grabbed a screenshot of it here, you can see her on a wider line waiting for more info. She does come get the 15 jump when she sees it, but connection will deliver the info sooner and tighten the line.https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1udeaoo7l-vTcdb_ESLRHUS6z3yUoZc_LGxktURT3l5A/edit?usp=sharing
>Your backside on that jump that I missed the first time was yucky! I also should have used my backside slice word. >
She went to it nicely! And you did say ‘back’ and your line was really good, showing a bit of countermotion to be get to show the next line to 17. So why didn’t she take the jump? It could be that you also said “yay!” and she might have thought it meant a cookie or toy was coming. Or, it could have been that you were looking directly at her – in these countermotion moments, shifting your connection to the landing spot really helps with commitment (it is one of the few times we don’t look at the dog :)) We will also be training that specific skill without needing as much help (take the jump with countermotion) coming soon in a couple of weeks 🙂
The ending line looked lovely here!
This is looking really strong, so feel free to move on to course 2 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Hopefully you are partaking in excellent German beer and snacks!!!> if I can’t set up the whole courses due to space constraints, am I OK to just set up the pop-outs? >
Absolutely! The pop outs are based on parts of the courses that should fit easily into smaller spaces. You can also take a part of the course you want to work – I didn’t use contacts in the pop outs, for space reasons. But you can set up part of the course using contacts or weaves if you like!
>Or should I try to rent some space to do the whole thing (not actually sure how much of an option that is right now, it’s hard to find space!).>
That is an option of course if you can find time, but the pop outs will give you a good workout for both dogs!
Have fun and safe travels home!
Tracy
Hi!
>A tandem turn is just a switch on the flat, correct?
Yes, where you and Syn then go the next direction together (usually back towards where you came from).
>Do you think it is a detriment to our training to sometimes drop the bars to 12 to work these skills, especially with the heat? I know that in lower-level training courses we did it all the time, but I wasn’t sure now that we are actively competing.>
Not a detriment at all! I totally think working at lower heights is good for the dogs. And it will really preserve her during training especially in the heat. You will see a lot of the demos are done with lower bars too. No problem at all to work with lower bars!
Standard 1: I agree, this was smooth and fast! I give you and Syn a lot of credit for running it this smoothly – I know how hot it is!!
1-2-3 looked great, she got it on verbals and totally knew where to go.
I think the hardest part on this run was the 4-5 line – you backed up on the 4 backside during the FC, which resulted in the bars on 4 and 5 coming down (late cue to send to 5 because the Fc was late due to backing up). So remember to decelerate into the FCs so you don’t end up backing up due to momentum. That might mean you don’t get that close to the backside jump, but that is fine because her backside skills are looking really independent!
Really nice wraps on 8 and 9, the spin worked great! Super nice independent weaves and a-frame!!
The tandem on 12 worked great, she read the line really well. That set up the next line really well – your timing of the FC on 14 at :42 was SPOT ON. Super!!!
It looks like the bar on 15 at :45 was a disconnection moment where you were looking ahead so she looked at you to see if it was a blind cross or not. One other small detail is to stay connected on the landing of the 16 backside to get a slightly smoother line to 17.
Course 2: This course also went well – you handled aggressively with a lot of connection and stayed in motion, and that really helped!
> First run I babysat the backside to 2 and didn’t get where I needed to be.>
On that 1 jump, you cued a ‘tight’ so she collected – and that was tighter than you needed it to be, so you had to stay there to push her back out. You can cue more extension on 1 and as she is taking off, cue the backside, making it easier to leave sooner and get to the next position.
The threadle on 3 went well when you maintained connection so she saw the jump – when you got behind on the first run, you closed your shoulders forward which cued the a-frame.
> I definitely need to cue tighter between 5 and 6 to get a tighter backside on 6, I need to get away faster after 6 to get the cross after the tunnel (>
A few ideas for ya!
– you can use a brake arm (2 hands, essentially) as she exits tunnel 4 to get a tighter turn on 5 as you move into position for 6. That will automatically get a tighter turn while you keep running.
– you can send away to 7 without running towards it (kind of like the 4 corners trend sequences of sending into the layering) so you will handle 7-8-9 without getting too close to 7 or 8
– you can also do a blind cross 5-6 and threadle wrap on 6, which puts you a lot further ahead for the 7-8-9-10 line 🙂 More on that coming next week!
I like the option of the blind on the landing side of 11, but only if we are getting past 11 when the dogs are taking 12. An easier option is a threadle wrap on 12! She saved your bacon at 1:31 there 🙂 You were further ahead at 2:37 on the blind but it was a still a little late (she was already taking off when you started it) – being late accidentally put you on her line, which sent her off course. Great job staying in motion even after the off course!! The blind might be easier when you are further ahead on the exit of the 9 tunnel, but handling 10-11 on your right and the threadle wrap on 12 is probably the easiest for you both!
At the very end, you did a serp on 11 and pushed to the other side of 12 – being further ahead on the exit of the 9 tunnel can get you further ahead there on 11, to make it even easier to get a nice turn to 12.
Her teeter distance is doing well, you can put a target out there to keep her driving to the end.
She had a bar on the 17 jump before the DW at 2:56 – you said a big GO then the tight verbal, so she didn’t process the tight verbal til she was over the bar and tried to adjust. I don’t think you need the go verbal there, you can just use tight and decel to get the turn to the DW.
> I need to make better connection from a contact to a backside jump because I think Syn came down the dogwalk the first time already plotting her jump>
She was being a good girl! And yes, connection was important there:
On the first run, your voice said push but the physical cue showed the front of the jump by looking forward/pointing forward at 1:52.
Compare to the 2nd run – at 3:02 you had connection to her and less arm pointing, so she went directly to the backside. Super!!
> I also worked “switch tight” for the first time ever as a cue to get 21 to 22 without an extra 17 jump.>
I loved that! You nailed it: super fast line to the weaves, and a really tight turn there too. Yay!! And it set up a really nice ending with the aframe and jump.
Have fun at the trial and stay cool! These temperatures are brutal!
Great job here!
TracyHello and welcome! I am glad she is feeling better!!!!
This forward focus exercise went really well! Great commitment and her turns looked lovely too. Releasing her with the wrap verbal worked well (that is what you used on most of the reps).
She has really strong forward focus (having seen her do it in person!) so I believe you can ask her for more here 🙂 You can add an arm indication that says “look at the jump now please” but is not the release. As you cue the forward focus, you can wait til she looks fully at the jump (turns her head to the bar, rather than use her peripheral vision). I suggest it because she was looking kind of sideways LOL half at you, half at the jump (:59 is a good example of that :)) and I know she can look fully at the jump 🙂
She still took the jump here every time (yay!) so I thinking ahead to the more complex situations where you will really want her to acknowledge the jump you want her to take, before you release her.
So you can cue the forward focus with an arm cue pointing low to the jump, then praise (or at least pause for a couple of seconds), then release. I suggest the arm cue the praise or pause because you were waiting for it here and she was looking at it peripherally and releasing before the verbal on some of the reps (:20 and 1:33 for example). Since we don’t want to confuse the order of festivities on the start line, you can lead out, cue the forward focus, but have the praise then either a release or a reward marker to throw a reward to her or have her get one behind her. That way she won’t have questions about when the release is.
You can also let her settle into the stay more before you fully begin your lead out. That might look like stepping to the side, then waiting til she settles into her position, then moving to your lead out spot. She was moving a decent amount in the stays and ended up sideways to the jump at the end LOL So that moment of stepping off to the side and letting her settle fully into the stay before leading out can make a big difference in her knowing exactly where you want her to leave her feet 🙂
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyWelcome back to camp! It is going to be a fun summer – where we will probably be training at dusk or dawn LOL! Why is it so hot already?!?!!?
>I am going to split the working spot between Nox and Katniss although I will likely run both of them on most of the sequences I set. Katniss is still working on contacts, so she won’t do entire standard courses.>
Sounds great!
>I started the first Focus Forward game with jump focus. Nox rocked it, so I decided to submit Katniss. >
Yay Nox! Katniss did really well too!
>She struggled on a couple of reps (only 1 included) where she was positive the jump was a backside.>
That is actually pretty common, and is a result of too much pressure on the line from us. You can see it at :11 here –
you lead out laterally (:10) then step back towards her and lean in a bit at :11. That was the pressure that cued the backside.When that happens… reward because it is always something we are doing even if we don’t know what it is, in the moment. Re-sending to the jump just makes it harder and creates more errors. Then on the next rep, move further away from her (less pressure on her line) and be sure she is facing the front of the jump – then she will take the front of the jump.
That was the only blooper here, the rest went great! You can keep adding distance to this game and we will be using this skill in the course work too 🙂
>She has also been struggling with her startline stay in the last few months after it used to be PERFECT! It is the thing I’m most frustrated with in her training. We did have a couple of issues with that in this exercise, but I did not include them. I will share those at some point if we continue to have issues in the hopes that you have some suggestions.>
Please include them 🙂 Post them if you still have the video! Usually it is caused by something we are doing that predicts the release, so the dogs anticipate. Could be hand/foot movement or reconnection paired with the verbal that might be causing it (she thinks the movement is the release), could be you are using a certain rhythm of your lead out and release that you are not aware of (but she sure is LOL!)
On the video here, she didn’t break the stays but you walked out with a lot of muscle tension… which builds drive for the release and might accidentally lead to breaking stays. So lead out nice and chill like you did at 2:08, even fixing your hair 🙂 then put your hand/foot into position for the forward focus, then praise… then release or throw a reward to her like you did at 1:25.
Also, don’t worry if she moves her front feet towards you a little as you begin the lead out (as long as her butt doesn’t move). Fixing it will create more arousal and stress, plus you would need to be 100% consistent with fixing it and then rewarding etc etc. So don’t worry about it as long as she focuses forward properly and keeps the bar up and holds the stay til released.
> But I am working on it the behavior with a clicker in the house and away from agility right now, so I’m hoping it transfers soon!>
It certainly can’t hurt to work on it with the clicker! But it might not help unless it is done in high arousal and transferred to a jump ASAP 🙂 Keep me posted, I love training stays 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
I am glad it was great! Yay!> Lots of the trend of stuff everywhere I feel like we’re seeing more of, where just verbals, tricky skills, and distance aren’t quite enough.>
Do you mean the trend of random obstacles everywhere, often in the handler path?
>) as is Greg Derrett (no freaking clue what to expect from him since I haven’t seen any courses from him since we started doing UKI).>
I have known Greg for 25 years and have never once run under him when he is judging! But he did just judge a big event in the UK, you can find his courses here:
https://theagilityopen.com/2024-documents/2024-briefings-coursesHis courses seem to have typical challenges, and also seem a little crunchy/tight.
> then we just have to battle the wind and heat to get some training in before next Tuesday.>
Yeah, I think it is going to be a devil of a summer (we are on our 2nd day of 100 degree weather, which is INSANE for June and this area) so I am sure we will be extending CAMP into September so no one bakes trying to train the dogs.
>Tuesday we leave for New Mexico (17 hour drive) for Game On agility camp and then head right to Washington state (23 hour drive) for Run Wild ISC/UKI show.>
FUN! Lots of great people at both of those locations!!
> I’m gonna take some little jumps and cones with us so if you have any mini mini exercises you could point me at in any of our previous courses with you (we’ve got a ton of stuff in our AU library) maybe I could post some of that while we’re away from our full set up at home?>
Yes, great idea!!!! Any chance you can also bring a tiny tunnel, like a 3 footer?
The 3 things that come to mind for your trip are:
The MaxPup Winter Camp (AU-063) which has some good small space setups for cones and one jump, such as:You can mess with distances on these and we can add threadle wraps, etc.
Also, coming on Monday are two things we can modify to travel:
one has a regular size tunnel but we can easily use cones or a jump instead
one requires a tunnel and/or a short set of poles if you can fit even a short tunnel and maybe two 2×2 bases?Let me know! It will be fun!
Tracy
Hi!
>ol, I’ve been trying to narrow down what skill/s we actually NEED for years and I can’t really find a pattern, >
OK so maybe a better question is… what are your current priorities with Beat’s handling training? We can use that as a jumping off point for his priorities (and also, for your sanity because you are training 3 dogs and working and it is hotter than the surface of the sun lately…)
>As for ONE skill/verbal I will try to add, it’s less of a verbal that I NEED and more one that I need to just get RIGHT. Soft left/right turns. I constantly screw them up with Beat, and sometimes don’t even realize I got it wrong until days later (so honestly, I doubt she’s actually learning them since half the time they are used incorrectly). >
Perfect, I love this! In your next sequencing session with either dog, look for those specifically (you will have opportunity for in MaxPup 3 too :)) and just focus on working the verbal and physical cues – then running through the walk through so your brain is ready to spit the verbal/handling out 🙂
> They’re probably the easiest to just slap on and start using because most of the time they are obvious but the occasions where they might be useful are rear crosses, which I’m terrible at and he might appreciate a little extra information to help him know which way to turn when I disappear behind him, and eventually how much to turn when I add in tight turn verbals (we currently don’t have a tight turn away cue, it’s mostly rear cross him and then scream!) So tight turns might be the next ones.>
Totally agree! The soft turn training has saved my bacon on rear crosses on many occasions. And we can prioritize RCs handling cues too (we have some here in CAMP but lots in Maxpup 3 :))
Keep me posted, stay cool!!
Tracy
