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Good morning!
>But this is clearly not enough because even after several years of trying and being open to training them, I am NOT getting better with verbals and it’s been very frustrating. >
Totally agree that it can be frustrating!! And the science behind learning/memory says that walking and saying the verbals quietly will not be that effective, so I have changed the practice process to try to fit what the science tells us:
>With the movements I feel like I can picture that easier in my head and then just DO it (even when I was still learning them), but the words this really hasn’t been the case. I feel like I need to make the pairing a bit more automatic- do the movement AND the words>
State dependent memory for the win! If we learn/rehearse in the state closest to what we are going to be in when we need to recall/use the what we have rehearsed, we are better able to do it. So running and doing the handling and saying the verbals as we would say them during an actual run has been incredibly effective for this. In the CAMP and MasterClass stuff, doing the walk throughs like this is a priority and it really helps. We run the course for real with connection, handling, verbals… without the dog. And video it! Then we run it with the dog – and video. Comparing videos tell us if we are on the right track.
Everyone (myself included) has a love/hate relationship with it. We HATE it because it is energy-expensive to run the sequence or course a few times without the dog. Exhausting on a full course! But we love it because it increases the success level for timing, verbals, connection. And then that becomes much more automatic and we can reproduce it easily at trials.
So definitely try it with the puppy sequences! It should be less exhausting to run without her, because the sequences are smaller 🙂
> (and make sure that the verbal comes BEFORE the physical cue from a cleanliness of training perspective?)>
Yes to this on the training exercises set up specifically for the verbals/mechanics. For the sequences? The verbal and physical cues might end up being relatively simultaneous and that is fine – don’t drive yourself crazy about verbal-then-physical on sequence work because then everything ends up late 🙂
Here is an example from a while back (edited more recently but I think this was from 2022)
> I like that this might serve a dual purpose to teach her to ignore words and cues not directed at her while I have her on a boundary or scatter feed while I do the walk through!>
Yes if she can hold the boundary. My dogs can hold the boundary when I half-ass it. But when I run it for real with my invisible dog? They always join me. Part of it is because done correctly, the cues are compelling and enticing. And part of it is that I have not put enough reinforcement into ignoring me that completely LOL so I leave them in a crate or in the house while I am doing it.
Let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Hi!
>Had to get creative about the pill bug setup, but I think this works.>
This was creative and it totally worked!
>That first one was funny too when she had no idea what the game was and went “WHEE! I’ll just send to this weird looking ginormous jump wing over here.”>
Ha! Yes, that did appear on her line so she was being good!
>I could feel when I wasn’t turned back far enough with my right arm on those where she cut behind me, totally my fault. (>
Yes, and it is all rewardable because she is following the cues she sees. I think extending your arm back to her (elbow locked, finger pointing to her cute nose) will open up the connection as you run. When your arm was more bent and at your side (like at :18 and :36), she had a hard time seeing where to be – she was sorting out if she should follow the motion (moving laterally to your left) or find your right side. When you had your arm further back, it was clearer to her (like at :49 and also later in the video, like at the end).
Getting her around the full circle was hard and that was where you got a bit of jumping up – she might have thought arriving at your side was what got the reinforcement, so staying with you as you continued was weird? You can slow down and reward sooner (a few steps after she gets to you) then vary the timing of the reward so that you can get more duration and she will keep moving with you with no questions.
Putting things together that the end looked really good! She did super nicely doing the side changes and going around the full setup!!!
Great job!
TracyGood morning! It looks like NJ is delivering some good weather as you get settled in! And he did really well here!
He was trying to be b overachiever and send himself, so a cookie reset and line up at your side for each rep made it easier to add challenge.
When changing your position, say the verbal 3 or 4 times while still holding him, then let go so he can process it before he moves.
He had trouble with the right turns away from you but easily did the right turns away from you (and right turns towards you).
So to get the right turn away, moving over to be more centered on that bar was very effective! It was still hard for him but he had really good success. You can start the next right-turn-away already in that position to re-establish success, then gradually make it harder and more centered.
He reset really well after an error when you brought him back to middle for a cookie. The provides useful info for him that the rep was not quite right, but he was going to get another try immediately and reward was still available. He did really well not get frustrated on a really hard skill session!
The tunnel turn game is going really well too! He just needed one more step to the wing on the very first rep, but then got it after that and ran the very smoothly and fast! His commitment is looking great! Your verbals were mostly spot on – I think you were getting them a little mixed around at the end but they were pretty perfect before then. And he was flying, super fast! Love it!
The Left/right verbals can be sooner – you were saying them as he was entering, so try to get the verbs going when he is still 5 or 6 feet before the entry (you can lay a line on the ground as a visual aid to anticipate when to say them). He was turning well because that was his natural line, so rehearsing earlier cues will help when the lines get crazier 🙂
The Go cues can also be earlier, at the 5 or 6 foot mark (you were saying them when he was in the tunnel). To help get the straight line the wing past the tunnel exit, earlier go cues will help but also you can send to the wing and tunnel from further away. That way, you can be ahead of him when he exits the tunnel and lay on the connection 🙂 When you had your arm pointing high or were not connected, he didn’t know where to be, specifically. You can see this at :36 as he exited, you were pointing forward/looking forward which blocks connection and turns your shoulders to the wing right next to you, so he curled in. On the last rep, you had low arms (yay!) but no connection, so he knew it was somewhere out there but was not sure where, exactly,
Turning your head towards him to make connection will set that line beautifully. You had that happening better at :55 and he went to the wing nicely! Yay!
He had one leap-at-your-head moment at :29, when you praised him for being a good boy. That is good to know (that praise is very stimulating) so yes, praise him… but be presenting a reward at the same time to avoid head-leaping. When you praised while pulling out a toy or treat on the other reps, he did not consider head-leaping. Looking ahead to his trial career: you can start teaching him to go find his leash as part of the praise, so he has something to do with his excitement when things go well 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning! This session went really well, she had a ton of success. YAY!!
I will keep bugging you to say the right or left 3 or 4 times before letting her go to start moving on the easier rep – it is good mechanics to rehearse that will set you up for more good mechanics when things get harder.
She did really well from the neutral position – you had the verbals going then a little bit of body help (lean), which is good to help her be very successful! NICE!!!! You will be able to fade out the subtle physical help and she can get it on pure verbals.
>The collar holding wasn’t the norm>
Pulling back on the collar might be more of a habit than you realize (we all have these habits floating around in mechanics). It was happening a bit here too, causing her front feet to lift up off the ground when she was at your side. You were pulling back and bending your elbow which contributes to this, so keep your arm straight/elbow locked (you probably need to lean over a little) and don’t pull back – we don’t need her to pull forward all on this as it changes the weight shift. You can go to one finger holding the collar because that makes it harder to accidentally pull back and up.
She looks ready for you to add in having her turn away from you on the left and right verbals: you standing in front of one of the bars, and saying the word that sends her to the other side, versus saying the words that cues her to take the bar in front of you and turn away.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
He was a really good boy ignoring the neighbor dog!
>’m feeling good about his threshold and teamwork in these! He seems to be doing well? No screaming or throwing behaviors.>
I think he is doing great 🙂 And the teamwork has immediately improved – you two looked relaxed and like you are working together. You both have some space to breathe and reset in the session while he is noodling with the toy, which makes the session smoother and happier in general. I really love how he is getting more relaxed about the toy play. Note that after the last rep on the jumps, he tugged with you, took the toy to the side for a little play when you let go… but then stopped to watch you. Then he brought the toy to you when asked and lined up for the next rep. I mean, that is a small detail which makes a huge difference.
>I did 6’ between jumps and raised the second bar 4” on this one. I missed the note about moving the toy until after we did this session so I left it still again!>
I think he looks great here! The jumping coordination looks good and the stays look good (great job rewarding it at the end – it was a happy surprise and that is very motivating for dogs!)
So when you revisit this again, adding the moving target will be good and if he is happy with that, we raise the bar on jump 2 again (another 2 inches). We are adding more to this skill on Tuesday, which will add more variety too.Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>You see things I never noticed. I did not see the extra small steps he was taking to keep his balance because he found it slippery.>
Video is really helpful because I can compare the different footings to his previous videos too!
>I see at the 1:17 mark as you said I did not give him enough of a verbal, or physical turning cue before the jump before. I did give him his verbal soft turn cue but my body overrode it. And he did take the line I showed him.>
With the big layering training we do, the dogs are generally trained to stay on the big line unless otherwise notified LOL!!! So it was a good off course moment 🙂 When there is a lot of forward motion, I have found that the brake arm helps me support the soft turn verbal when motion might send the dog long onto a big line.
> I was way too late as he did jump that in extension right to the tunnel! Would you suggest using a brake arm approaching 3 to help with collecting?>
Yes, that will help! And also, starting the cues sooner: no later than landing of 2. He has a nice big stride, so his decision on how to jump 3 is being made as he is landing from 2. So if you start the cues for 3 as he is in the air over 2, he will see them when he lands and have an easy time processing them.
>we have a workshop in a dirt floor horse arena and a fun trial on turf in a familiar venue. >
FUN!! I am jealous of all your fun trial opportunities, what a great thing for young dogs!
> Still getting his striding on his running AFrame, decided he didn’t need to run down today, jump from the red! 🤦♀️ >
He might have felt it was faster LOL!!! Ah, young dogs LOL!!!
> As you say, good one day, not so good the next, adolescent dog 🤷♀️. >
Right! Teenagers… LOL!! But I agree, he is totally fun and doing GREAT! Tracy
Good morning!
Sounds like things are moving forward really well (plus the weather is probably improving too, which helps with conditioning too!)>Harmony only found one area around the left shoulder that was sore. She believes it was just residual from the chiro appt.>
This is something to keep an eye on: residual soreness. He shouldn’t be sore from an adjustment 2 days later, so we want to keep an eye on if the adjustments are big adjustments (and why those would be needed) or if something else is happening. For now, it is just something to track: when the soreness is found, relative to agility or chiro, etc.
Keep me posted on how he does with the fitness stuff! Did they give you a calendar of how much to do each day? I found that always helped me not do too much or too little 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>Venture only runs on grass at home or at this location for his weekend lesson. Due to rain, we haven’t been working in the yard. When we lowered the jumps to 12″, he stopped avoiding them. >
OK this is good then, making it sound more like the environment and less of a physical issue. You can keep bars at 12 til he is more comfortable, then put a few at 14” and gradually put all at 14”… then a few at 16”, working up to all at 16”.
>He is very distracted working outside at this location – couple of horses on one side of the fence and a husky dog that he would really like to play with in the back yard next door.>
That is definitely distracting, along with all the normal outdoor distractions. The plus side to this is that it should make tria environments seem easier!
>He saw the chiropractor just last week – right rear foot seemed sore (as I typed this, thinking might need an exam for this) and L1 was out – common in his line, joys of long backed dogs. I think I will also see if we can catch up with massage therapist this weekend to see if something is tight.>
Definitely follow up on that right rear to see if there is anything. Have you ever done skin-rolling with him? I have absolutely zero skills when it comes to massaging my dogs, so they have me do skin rolling. This is gently lifting the skin up and rolling down their back and sides, rolling the skin between my thumb and fingers. The dogs love it and it is a great warm up – plus I can feel where they are tight because it will feel literally tight (or even a bit crunchy!)
>Ven is running Preferred 12″ this weekend for his AKC debut. I chose that because I expect his attention to be split in a new place. Thinking I should keep him at 12″ for a few more trials – planning 2 ASCA trials and 2 AKC trials over the next couple months to gain experience running in trial environment and in new locations.>
I think this is a smart plan (and it is exactly what I do with my dogs too :)) And I left Hot Sauce in the 12” (rather than 16” regular) preferred division because it worked better for her brain and body.
Keep me posted on the weekend! Have fun!
Tracy
Hi!
>Yesterday we had a lesson that included running a course outside on grass. Venture was avoiding all the jumps set at 16″. >
Hmmm – to start figuring this out, what is his current 16″ experience including in new locations (or outdoors on grass?) How did he do on 12″ jumps?
>I haven’t found anything physically wrong with him
Out of curiosity, what have you had checked? The things to start to look at would be patellas (exam where he is lying on his side, so he can’t use strength to lock his knees :)) spine/hip rads, soft tissue soreness in the psoas or shoulders. How if the tick situation in your area? Tick illness can also cause jump avoidance.
>but it was quite warm, about 80.>
That could certainly be a factor, especially at this time of year when he is not heat acclimated. It will be no problem in August!
> I’m starting to wonder if asking him to jump a full inch above his height at the withers is realistic for a breed that carries a lot of bone/weight. He’s 27 pounds and right at 15″ at the withers. Am I overthinking this?>
I think a 15″, 27lb dog can jump 16″ successfully and if he is not, we can try to figure out why. But also, you can build up confidence and get lots of experience on him at 12″ too! And if he spends is whole career in 12″? Perfect! Plenty of great competition and title opportunities there, so it is a winning situation for sure!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
It sounds like he had a grand time in class 🙂 You might have to block off the weaves/contacts til he is 100% ready for them LOL! It will be good to see how he feels to Harmony when she sees him! Keep me posted!!!Tracy
Hi!
>Had an interesting thing happen in class on Monday, where Reacher missed the weaves twice. He hasn’t messed up any weaves in quite some time and I’m not sure why. Not fretting, but it’s interesting. The video was really far away so I zoomed in in editing so it’s pretty hard to see. I thought maybe it was the color of the poles blending in too much but I’m not sure. The entry was tucked pretty close to the wall back there but I’m not feeling that’s so much it either.>
Yeah, it was odd for him! It could have been there was some visual clutter with the weaves near the wall? Have you done any skin rolling with him (gently lifting his skin and rolling down his back with your thumb and fingers)? That can tell you if he is tight anywhere. You have had weird weather lately and I have found that the sudden shifts from cold to warm to cold/ice/snow can make my dogs pretty tight.
>The other part of the video is just some running to try to do our little test of speed. You’re welcome for the comedy relief of watching me run back and forth as well. 😂>
OK that was pretty hilarious, you were running in full extension and he was kind of loping along LOL!! I think on the very last one, though, we got the closest to his full extension. You might need to do it as a long restrained recall, to great food or a fur toy? And we got a good view of him running hard on the line from :14-:18 on the video. He was in big extension there (and really fast!), so it would be interesting to see if you can get an at-home bunny chasing video to compare it to 🙂
>but it’s the desire to go fast that’s missing in agility I think. I just wish he was a little more intense about it. But I’m still hoping that will come. >
Agility has a lot of complexity and that requires a lot of thinking. For the dogs that we want to think MORE? We add more complexity in the form of turns, hard lines, etc. For the dogs we want to think LESS? We take out the complexity, making the puzzle easier to solve… so they can just feel the wind rushing past their ears as they race around the course.
I don’t think he lacks desire to go fast, and I think he is plenty extended on the big lines. But he might also be thinking hard to solve the technical challenges (backside, threadles, etc etc) and that can cause dogs to go slower in order to find the right answers. So you can experiment with taking out the technical stuff and just let him rip! Approach everything like it is a speedstakes class: big fun lines and lots of blind crosses, etc. Not thinking, just fast 🙂 And then structure dictates the rest: you can see how his body naturally moves in extension, and get some stretching conditioning stuff going to give him more ‘reach’ in the front and rear. Length of spine and shoulder angulation plays a role in this and can increase speed because they cover ground more easily.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>I wrapped her feet for the first time. I didn’t get her first turn on video because I forgot to press play. But here are the second and third turns. I wrapped her front feet only for her first turn. For the second turn I wrapped both front and rear feet. And then went back to front feet only for her third turn. The wraps on her front feet definitely showed wear so I think I’ll keep wrapping her front feet on these mats. I wasn’t sure if I should wrap the rear or not but they didn’t seem to have a much wear as the front wraps.>
I think this went really well – she didn’t seem fussy about the wraps and she did really well finding her lines and turning too! Yay!
For agility, I find that wrapping front feet helps with landing and wrapping back feet helps with the brakes needed to collect for turns… so I wrap both front and rear 🙂 The front feet generally will show more wear but the dogs do use the wrap on the back feet too.
I think she did really well on these! The hardest part was the circle wrap on the first part of the video:
At :24 – you did a super good job getting her committed to the backside wrap there! I think you left for the next line with a bit too much speed and not enough looking behind you at the landing spot to support her line, so she did not take the jump. For now, try to leave with less explosiveness and a lot of connection to the landing spot behind you: then throw her reward back to the landing spot. That can shift value to the bar, rather than having her follow you for the reward. And that will also make it so you can build up to running away explosively and without a ton of connection.
At :36, we had an example of Lu being able to see ALL of your cues: you had converging pressure but she was still coming in, the nyou kept moving and pinged your shoulders towards her which pushed her away to the threadle wrap. Good girlie!
At :48, you were blocking the backside wing a bit by facing forward/forward arm blocking connection. I think the TW cues also have a forward arm s she might have been confused about which cue it was.
You had the wing more visible at 1:34 and 1:54, and on the rep at 1:54 you supported the commitment to the takeoff really well. She turned beautifully!!!
When you tried getting the threadle wrap after it, it worked best in flow like at 2:01. When you did it just on the threadle wrap jump, it looks like you were blocking the line a bit and it made it look like you were cueing the front of the jump.
The big line at the end looked really good!!! She seems to be finding her jumps really well on those big fast lines and not running past stuff. YAY!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Then I started overthinking it – what was getting rewarded, passing the RC or the weave / tunnel performance. >
I’d say both are being rewarded! Think of it a ‘passing the RC to do the tunnel/weave/etc’
>Do I need to think of this as a chain, with ignoring the RC as just part of the chain? obstacle – ignore the RC – obstacle = reward.>
Basically yes – technically more of a sequence, because each element is cued by your motion but it is all linked 🙂
And also, I don’t want to risk having the lotus ball appear anywhere near the ring crew because that could tip over into enhancement learning where we accidentally pair the RC person with food… making the RC even more ‘visible’ to his brain. I’d rather have the weaves/tunnel/jumps more visible and the RC person fade into the background 🙂
> I’ve committed to picking up a person who comes out from Manhattan by train and I’m too nice to tell her she’s on her own! >
You are a good person to do that! So kind to help her out!!!!
>The mat floor instructor has a hard time following my plan, she’s forever throwing in off script challenges that cause him to fail – doesn’t get incremental increases in difficulty so now I ask her to stay seated. >
Good for you for figuring out how to get her to not create failure! You can add in keeping her seated, but maybe holding a bag of treats of something – incremental increases that you can control. Or having her remain seated behind a tunnel or something.
>The turf facility instructor is great, but it’s another home base type of situation for Coal. You probably know her from UKI – she just had the trip from hell to Chicago. Drove NY to Chicago, senior non competing dog passed on day her knee blew out on day 2 and she had to withdraw from the balance.>
Oh yes! That trip sounded like a horror for her 🙁 She is a really strong trainer/instructor and I bet she can help make home base feel more challenging too! Even practicing things that look easy will help him learn how to do it in harder places.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
Hi!>If you notice I got one tiny black wrap strip on! Yay!>
YAY!!! She seemed fine with it. Also, a gentle curve of the tunnel will help her find an easier line into it – having the tunnel straight here creates a 90 degree entry, which causes slipping at the entry). And remember not to lift her up as yo start the end… and don’t let her lift herself up – that also can cause slipping. So bend over and lock your elbow if you need to, to maintain 4 on the floor 🙂
I agree that she is totally getting it, and she had a really nice balance between the left/right soft turns and the go lines! Nice!!!
The hardest part for getting the tight turn was after the wrapping the wing on the straight line then needing her to turn right on the tunnel exit. Those right cues at 1:28 and 2:20, for example, were late so she exited a bit wide. You can definitely say the verbal sooner, but mainly give physical cues sooner. Ideally you can turn your shoulders when she is still a stride or two away from entering the tunnel but that is hard to do on that line – so you can even whip out a brake arm to help get the turn even though you are accelerating forward.
Looking at the grids:
> I hate her sit bc she tucks her fonts to her backs ( working on this on the day to day) and it’s literally all I can see.>
Do you mean her front feet are too close to her back feet? On the sits here that were visible, she was doing a tuck sit (back moving forward). She couldn’t sit on the last rep at about 1:50, because your hand was pulling up on her collar and she felt it was weird/stressful. So yes, keep working on the tight sit without any splayed feet (maybe a roll back is better for her than a tuck, if that would keep her hind further from her front?) but also don’t make it an issue in front of a jump: holding her collar up or physically moving her position by lifting her neck (1:08) can add a negative feeling to sitting in front of a jump. I’d rather she learn to sort out her mechanics from a less-than-perfect sit, or get cookie-lured/hand touched into the right spot, than developing stress by trying to have a perfect sit in front of a jump with physical manipulation.
She sorted out her mechanics well here! She was a little too far from jump 1 on the first rep so there was a tap of her front feet before takeoff. But the rest looked really good! We might give her a little more distance between the 2 jumps as we add height to bar 2: what is the distance here in the video?
>I do believe she broke ahead of me almost every time.
I think she was releasing as you opened your mouth to say the word perhaps, so you can mix in praise and also throwing rewards back to her, so mouth movement doesn’t anticipate the release 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
