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Good morning!
>Once I gave him that tunnel, it took a lot to get him back!>
One of the things about this game is there is an arousal regulation element for some dogs – the tunnel can change their arousal state, and add in tugging for men more arousal! But this is GOOD because it simulates arousal state changes we might see on course (picture a UKI course with a 30 foot send to a tunnel, for example – WHEEEEE!!!!)
So after sending to a tunnel in this game, we can gain some insight into how to help him regulate that arousal. Self-regulation is not a strong skill in adolescent dogs but he overall does really well with it and just needs a little help. So two things to try:
– after a tunnel rep, tug as the reward, then walk back to the start position using the pattern game with treats. That can help center arousal again.
– after a tunnel rep, tug as the reward and then go the wing wrap – but place the toy in an obvious, visible position on the other side of the wing to give him a visual aid to wrap not tunnel. This is part of enhancement learning, enhancing the wrap exit when his brain sees the tunnel 🙂And you can use this setup to work the arousal regulation – have him do a tunnel then get the wrap. When he is able to do that… do 2 tunnels in a row then back to the wrap (with helping regulation in between the reps).
From what I have seen on the videos, he is really good with arousal regulation so this is going to take things to the next level, preparing him for what he might experience internally when running courses or at a trial. Let me know how he does!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
That is a bummer that the camera fell over! Did all the reps pretty much look like this?I think her form is looking good! She hit the bump on jump 1 with her back feet – I think that was more about the sudden movement on the release (you put the toy on the ground, released, and ran all in one heartbeat :)) So try to put the toy on the ground, start moving it/walking forward, then release her.
I think she is ready for a bump or low bar on jump 2 now, to teach her to push up with her rear since her mechanics are looking good so far! If you have another bump, that will be perfect. If not, do a rep or two with a 4 inch bar then try it at 6 inches. She seems ready!
Great job!
TracyHi!
For the wait – she is doing well here! You are much better able to walk forward away from her and she is staying nicely Remember you can mix in throwing the reward back to her. That can really solidify staying where you put her, because the reward coming back to her is great placement for staying where you left her 🙂 Yes, she might take the toy and run around a little bit but that is something she really really loves, so it is a high level reward. You can bring a 2nd toy to trade to help get the first toy back 🙂About the weaves:
>weaves ony really get two reps before she starts to try other things.>
Is she offering different behaviors after 2 reps, even when she has been correct? That is something to work through at this stage before closing the weaves because it might be a sign she is still guessing on the first 2 reps. So you can open the weaves up for more success and more reps.
>haha great minds think alike – used a target this morning much better driving down.>
Great!!! Adding the target will also help her go across it because she will have a ‘job’ at the other end.
>Also discovered if I am in the right place she does backsides and threadles- so just need to add the verbals and move me out of picture slowly.>
This is good!!! And yes, you can add more independence. How often are you seeing backsides and threadles in course design? I am guessing you see them at the higher levels – we see them a lot at the higher levels of one organization but much more rarely in the others.
Tracy
Hi! It should transfer pretty easily – were you doing them just as simple exits, or was turning away from you involved? If she was not turning on the simple exits like in the game, you might have been late with the cues. She is speedy and will need to hear/see them at least 6 feet (maybe more) before she enters the tunnel. You can put a marker on the ground to make sure you are on time 🙂
Let me know how she does!
TracyHi – thanks for the bump, I answered this in my mind but never typed it out LOL! Sorry!!
I don’t think the multi-wraps are super useful for that – we will add more of the “you can turn away from us on the same verbal” concept in a couple of weeks when we revisit the minny pinny idea. Plus, doing it on only a wing can confuse front side verbals versus backside/threadle verbals, so I like to have the visual of a bar or bump involved when taking things to the next level.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyHi!
> first couple of runs were typical for him, start well and then go check out the ring crew then come back and finish. Last run of the day I got this from him – >
This was a really good run! And there was ring crew visible at the front of the ring (he did not look at the person we can see on the video as you led out), and he ignored the judge who was moving pretty close to him. SUPER!!!!
> slower here that he usually runs but I’m confident that his speed will come back as he gets his head straightened out.>
Yes, he was processing a bit and also some of the turns on the course were weird (like the exit of the weaves to the jump) so he slowed down. Overall he had good speed and really good engagement!
> Not sure what his issue with the AF was, but he did choose to work with me here – Yay for that.>
Yes, that was odd for him – maybe it was the challenge of ignoring the exit gate? But he stayed engaged while you called him back and that is a big win! In previous situations, calling him back would have almost guaranteed disengagement but he worked through it really well here!
What you are seeing are the incremental improvements based on the training. Having to take the training to different locations for trials makes it harder for sure (new environments make it harder to generalize the skills) but there is *definite* progress. We can scroll back to previous videos to see the big leaps forward! And his class videos are almost perfect now, because that is where he has had the most experience with this – I know we have a lot of videos when he would have a lot more trouble ignoring people in the ring, the instructor, and the people/dogs in the other ring! So I think he is on the road to success here.
For example, on the class videos: he completely ignored the ring crew on video 1. At :05 on the 2nd video. your cue almost put him into the lap of the ring crew person but he stayed on his line and didn’t even look at her. Yay!You sent him off course so you stopped but he needed to get rewarded for that moment.
Next step in class – have the ring crew people moving a bit or eating 🙂
It seems like you are being asked to run silently and that has some uses for handling… but I am not sure if that is helpful for him in challenging spots (like passing distractions). Talking to him there can be very connecting and helpful!
>Question – I’m still not clear on the best way to help him realize that ignoring the RC is a good thing and how to best reward it. In these clips, the RC by the weave entrance was never an issue and the boy never got a thing for it not being an issue. When would have been the right time to reward? Last short sequence here, I rewarded by the RC
Should I be thinking about building a chain here – reward by RC, reward after next obstacle past RC, reward two obstacles past RC – does the reward then become more about the obstacle performance that ignoring the RC?>Think of it as a two-part process:
– surprising him with varying when and where the reward comes (this can include someone else throwing it, or you marking the end of run to go get the reward), relative to passing/ignoring ring crew. It can come immediately, it can come 3 jumps further down the line, and eventually it comes at the end of the run, or any place in between. The surprise factor is great for learning and also great for motivating him to keep moving (because the surprise factor is linked to dopamine, which motivates the dogs to keep moving for rewards :))
For now, the harder the challenge, the sooner the reward can come. Ring crew in class, 20 feet away? Not that hard anymore. Ring crew in class eating pizza, 5 feet away? VERY HARD and so the reward can be quick.For him, I think having the reward appear by being thrown from someone else would be great – that factors in you running without toys/treats, and really enhances the surprise factor!
– the 2nd part of this is that by varying when/where the reward comes, staying on the line and working the course becomes more valuable and motivating. So then the whole course gets more value, while the ring crew gets less valuable. For him, people are intrinsically more valuable than jumps/tunnels – and his natural interest in people is sometimes overriding his interest in jumps/tunnels/etc. But the tables are turning and we are seeing more and more interest in the agility obstacles overriding his interest in people, so he is running fuller courses more! The progress is definitely happening! Since he is primarily food-driven, we are having to be a bit more creative about when/where the reward happens (especially in NFC trial runs) but I can definitely see him getting better and better.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>Thanks for all the great advice on the runs! I am noticing that he’s an energy-matcher and when it’s loud and kind of exciting at the trial he might be a bit harder to get engaged at the start line, but he seems to get amped up and excited by more chaos. I guess that’s better than getting worried as the energy goes up!>
Yes! Some dogs are what I call “Game Day Players” – this means that they work fine in practice… but they light up and add a lot more speed at trials. It is a good thing because they also are able to maintain their engagement and accuracy. Fun!
>YES! It was a real run using the actual course! And, since I hadn’t checked in for this one (oops!) and didn’t have a toy they counted it as official and he even got a Q. So baby dog is now on the board! Didn’t mean to but the course was nicely designed and I wanted to try without a toy and it worked out. 🙂>
That is exciting! Congrats!
>I’m going to try more empty hands, but don’t worry, I won’t be getting greedy. I want him to be super confident and that’s going to take more time. I’m not going to be a “fix-it” person. And we have no trials now until the first weekend in May, so might be a little quiet in the forum for a bit.>
Time is on your side! It takes time to really percolate the right balance for trials, and right now the training side of things is more important to keep building skills and keeping it fun.
>Oh, I am also noticing that he’s getting a bit more confident about running the portion of the course by the crowd, but still has some hesitation there so I’ll be extra sure my cues and connections are solid on those portions.>
And beg/bribe people at class to stand there with their dogs so you can reward him with yummy treats in the moment of running past them.
>I do wish Reacher would find agility more intrinsically rewarding like he seemed to when he was a puppy, but hopefully some of that joy will come back the more confidence he gains. Or, he just won’t be that dog. We shall see. I’m still going to think of anything I can to bring that fun/joy back.>
I think he does find it intrinsically rewarding – part of that is chasing you, which he loves. In most sopts of his trial runs, he is in full on extension. What you might be feeling is that there is a time lag because he has to jump an 8 inch bar, which is slower than running on the flat or wrapping wings. So it feels like you have more time to get ahead but that does not mean he is not running hard 🙂 Also, puppy training doesn’t have the high level of distraction outside the ring – the only spots I see him slowing down to process stuff is the trial distraction areas, but that will go away and he will blast through those too.
Speaking of fun, last night in class I wasn’t really feeling like doing agility in the traditional sense (just in the mood I guess) and just wanted to see if we could have more fun out there, so mainly we just played around with the toys and did only a few small things.
>We mostly just played around in the ring with his toys (no food). Then a bit of chase.>
He seemed to really have a blast chasign the toy – then when you added the jumps, you did a bit of the crazy ‘ready ready’ lead out… he seemed to love that to! Super fast!!!
> Then I tried a couple of distance challenges at the end. For that I wish I’d thrown the toy farther out on the line, but he didn’t seem to have any issue working away from me, so that’s good.
>You can hand a toy or cookie ball to the instructor and have her run with it for him (if he likes that) or throw it really far. That is a fun surprise factor!
>I was also thinking about just keeping him jumping 8″ even though I know he could do 12″. I’m not sure what the norm is these days for running Preferred/Select, but we’re not World Team material and not expecting to compete for super stardom so maybe he’d have more fun at a lower jump height. What do you think?>
There is plenty of super stardom to be had jumping in preferred/select! The competition is as fierce as you want it to be, locally and nationally. True there are no as many European event opportunities, but that might not be something you care about 🙂 I think jumping lower can extend a dog’s career simply because it is easier on their bodies. And it is FUN FUN FUN – one of my dogs started her career in Select and I never moved her out of it (Hot Sauce). And I think Larry Whippet will also spend his career in 16 Select… plenty of competition and opportunities there! So I am on board with 8 inches for him, or spending the first competition year at 8 then revisit the possibility of 12.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>No video today, I forgot to line up my camera with my video markers so there’s nothing to see 😛 Oh well!!>
Bummer! But is sounds like a good session!
> He did great when I connected 🙂 When I didn’t connect, he ran straight towards me- seems reasonable!>
Yes – and great feedback from him about whether you were visibly connected or not.
>And then we did the wrap/tunnel verbals game, he really wants that tunnel LOL. We did ok when he was on my right, he struggled more on my left and I moved the wing pretty far away to get a successful rep then we stopped. We kept it short and will revisit!>
When you revisit it, you can also help by putting his toy in the gap between the wing and tunnel. So when he is on your left and you cue the wrap, the toy is already visible there and he can have the ‘a-ha!’ moment of wrapping and not just tunneling 🙂
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>(We call them Butcher Boys here, no idea why)>
Butcher Boys! Hmmmmmm now I need to know why LOL!!
>This was hilarious, not just because Grin had lots of fun but because it was so hard for me and I wasn’t expecting it to be.>
I agree – there is a lot of handler hilarity because we get all tripped up and forget where to be, etc. It is a good game to help teach proprioception for HANDLERS hahahaha!!
>I’m so used to just doing and not thinking with my more experienced dogs, this was a really good exercise and it also made me realise that I don’t have the connection with him yet that I do with them, which I wouldn’t expect to have but still something to be mindful of at times.>
It definitely takes a while to develop that with the youngsters. I think that is mainly because the youngsters lack the experience and rehearsal to pick out the very first part of a cue and respond to it – they need to see the whole cue and it needs to be VERY big and clear… then there is extra processing time because they are still having to ‘think’ about it while experienced adults dogs can respond much more automatically.
For example, thinking of a blind cross: my 5 year old dog will see the beginning of the head turn and shoulder turn, and will change sides because he recognizes it as the start of the cue. My 14 month old dog needs to see the completed blind and strong re-connection then his brain needs to process it and send info to his feet, in order to make the side change. It is hard for me to do that consistently and on time for the youngster, so any errors are my fault and he gets rewarded to maintain the motivation to keep trying even when I am bad haha 🙂
> in fact I’m going to run it with Sonnet as I figure if I can get the timing right with her then Grin should be easier next time lol.>
You will probably need earlier timing with Grin because Sonnet can recognize the cues sooner 🙂
>At the start of the video I’ve left in me standing there thinking about what to do as I think it sums up my whole session,>
Ha! That is relatable. Your session went really well!!! And you started adding in more speed, which is great because he was able to open up and run too. He was happy to stay on the side you cued him too, thanks to good connection!
The blinds went well! Having the toy in the inside hand will help turn your shoulders to set up the ‘inside’ turns when he is between you and the tunnel. But he was reading the side changes well!!
You can throw the start cookie further away to give yourself more time to get ahead, or use a stay as well – that can help with the timing to show the re-connection even sooner. But I do like to mix in the food to build up the value of the food – it is a stealthy way of getting the dogs to drive for the food, because it is being paired with running then a toy 🙂
> we only had one go at the double cross which was super late but at least I get the idea.>Since he is fast and needs the info early: the first blind can come as soon as he starts moving towards you, which means the 2nd blind can start as soon as he changes sides for the first blind. It will feel really fast!!
Great job here!
TracyHello and welcome back! I love the Blast dog!!! He is living up to his name: truly a blast to watch! And he is gorgeous. And I didn’t realize that Mosa was his littermate: SO COOL!!!!
>Blast is now 8 months old, a bratty teenager, and ready to MOVE. I’m starting to learn his attention span is much better when motion is involved, so I’m really starting to have to tailor his training to his own needs and wants.>
You’re probably seeing the devotion to movement partially because he is an adolescent (their brains cause them to move a lot) and also because dopamine is likely being released in training (which is good!) and dopamine increases motivation in the form of, you guessed it, wanting to move. LOL!! All good, we will survive adolescence and you are already doing a great job tweaking things to incorporate his need to move. I mean, I train my stays with movement, so movement can certainly be used as part of all of these games and rewards 🙂
> He really disliked my manners minder jamming so much though!>
Ha! Yes, the MMs are ANNOYING with their high rate of jamming. My terrier used to smack it HARD with her front feet when it didn’t dispense fast enough and he seems to be approaching the jams with that same spirit LOL!!
>I think we really got the hang of this one, >
Yes, the set point is going REALLY well. His stay looks great which helps a whole lot and it looks like the distance between the 2 jumps is spot on so the striding is good, and the MM is far enough away too.
> I mostly wanted to make sure I had him set up close enough to the jump for this to be effective. >
He is a little too far from jump 1 – his front feet were tapping down in front of it. You can have him sit a few inches closer to it, so when you release the stay, his front feet lift up and only land after jump 1 rather than before it. That asks him to push from his rear and stabilize his core.
>Also, with him being only 8 months, what sort of limitations should I put on this type of exercise?>
This is the type of game you can find the ‘sweet spot’ (distance, etc) to get the proper rehearsal of mechanics, then maybe re-visit it once a week for 5 reps total. Definitely not a daily thing 🙂
> I had the bar set to 8″ and 10″,
The first bar will stay at 8 basically forever 🙂 And every month or so we can raise bar 2 by 2 inches. So a few reps of 12 inches when he is in the 9 month range, 14″ when he is 10-11 months old, 16 inches when he is year or so… full height somewhere closer to 2 years old for a large boy dog 🙂
And when we add different jumping puzzles, the 2nd bar can go back down to 8 or 10 inches, so he is solving the puzzle but not having to think about height yet.
>but is the point of the exercise to create muscle memory?>
It is to rehearse good mechanics and develop neuronal memory, so his brain can control the legs as his body continues to develop.
>If so, would it make sense to shelf this exercise until he’s a bit older and can jump closer to his full height?>
Doing it at this age is good because it is low impact for his joints/muscles, but great for developing the mechanics we want to wire in – mainly because we can control the mechanics very easily at this stage. When he is older, adding the higher bar will be really easy because his brain will already ‘know’ how to power through these.
And since this went really well, check out adding the moving target to it that I added on Tuesday – that is also useful proprioceptive learning for a baby dog, because there is more arousal and movement 🙂
> I guess I might have a lot of those questions as we do more jump work lol.>
Questions are great, keep ’em coming!! I personally take a long time to get dogs up to taller bars, because we obsess on mechanics (mainly, teaching them to maintain good mechanics even when they are really ramped up) and also because we know the brains and bodies are not really mature for many, many more months. My large male dogs don’t see full height jumping til they are 2 years old but it is an easy transition to it when they are ready and I am happy with their form and speed.
Wind In Your Hair: this went well too: fast and FUN!!! The placed reward past the jump made it really exciting – and also made it harder to do the wrap at first (he was a little sticky, thinking his way through that puzzle. He sorted that out really well and was fast to the wing by the end of the session too.
The next step with the reward is to NOT have it placed… instead, you throw it as soon as he exits the wing and looks at the jump. That will help strengthen the GO cue as the jump cue, rather than the presence of the toy as the cue to go to the jump. You will probably need a heavy toy to throw so it travels far 🙂 You can also add in starting really clsoe to the wing and staying there til he finishes going around it, then accelerate up the line. That way he practices driving way ahead of you.
>Blast took this one a little too seriously after the first few reps and started to slingshot himself around the jump. . I did a quick adjustment of the wing I was using for the wrap and that helped a lot. Any changes I should be making with this exercise? Does it matter much how I have the wing positioned?>
Ha! Yeah, well, there is supposed to be arousal in here so he was definitely on board with that. But when he went past the jump at 1:04 and 1:16, he was correct: the wing position caused him to exit on the line to the backside of the jump so he was correct to stay on his line (that is a skill that will serve you well in the future!). So you can send around to the other side of the wing and do a FC, so he exits facing straight to the front side of the jump rather than potentially on the line to the backside.
You can add more room between the wing and the jump now: distance adds challenge. But I think it will still be easy for him.
Great job on these!!
Tracy
Hi!
She was finding her jump really well here and great job adding her GO verbal! You can mark with her chase marker and throw a little sooner: as soon as she looks at the jump after exiting the cone wrap. You can add more distance between the cone and wing to help make it easier. The goal is that the toy is visible out ahead of her before she takes off for the jump.
On the sends to the cone, she was not always sure when to start so you can step to it with your dog-side leg to affirm that yes, she should start moving to it when your hand leaves her neck.
>Should I be continuing to move through the jump? I tend to slow down or stop my motion as she’s going over the jump to get the toy. Is it contradictory that I am slowing down as my reward placement has her powering through the jump?>
Yes, for now try to maintain steady motion (running or jogging or even walking) til she gets to the toy. Try not to show her deceleration as you throw and as she approaches the jump, because that might dilute the GO verbal versus the turn cues we will be adding very soon 🙂 Eventually it won’t be an issue because the verbals will be strong and independent, but for now we can match your motion to the verbals.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
I agree, this went great!
>We did work a little on just the tunnel (not in this video) using the verbals with mostly success and a few not so great reps.>
This is actually the way you want your sessions to go: a few failures mixed in, because failures are just as key to success when the pups are learning. I try not to go past 2 failures total in the session, but we also don’t want 100% success.
>I think when it comes to the tunnel I need to be very careful of the setups with my positioning and making sure there is success and a good loop of “do the thing, get reinforced, then come back to me” in order to avoid all the self reinforcing tunnel behavior.>
Yes, you were really strong with that here. You can also reward her for coming back and setting up:
She seemed a little ‘slippery’, meaning she did not want to be held. You can put a collar on her so as you line her up at your side, you can put a hand onf her collar and give her a treat.
The dig dig from your left side (first rep on that side and last rep on the video) was the best ones because you did not give her any physical help at all, only the verbal – you didn’t move at all or twitch your cookie hand LOL! A little physical help is fine, but we can fade it out as she gets better and better with these discriminations.
>Is my placement of reward ok?
Yes. And you can incorporate a toy as well: throw it for the tunnel exit and tug from your hand for the wrap. Yes, it will increase arousal but that is a good next step for her.
The other thing to add is to curve the tunnel a tiny bit so the tunnel entry is a little more visible as she comes around the wing. And if she is fine with that – move the wing a little closer. She is doing great!
Nice work here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
> We practiced this the other night and I was surprised how “bad” I was. I definitely thought she stayed but once I looked back at the video, she broke just before release many times… so this was take two from tonight and I tried to slow down my timing of release.>
Well, you sorted out all of the issues from that session because this video looked GREAT! You are getting really fabulous at analyzing your own mechanics and sorting them out to set up success. WOW!!
The first rep and last rep were perfection in terms of connection (watching her as you moved to your start position), putting the toy on the ground, marking, then throwing the reward back to her.
2nd and 3rd reps had releases to take the jumps: I also really liked these. Your mechanics were clear and she was using her body with power! Maintaining good jumping mechanics even with the excitement of the moving target looked great. Fantastic! Since she is only 8 months, we don’t need to raise the bars yet but getting her to hold the stay and work her mechanics with the excitement of the toy and handler movement is incredibly valuable! This game can be re-visited maybe once a week, and you can raise the height of bar 2 by 2 inches maybe once a month for now? We have other jumping ‘puzzles’ coming that will continue to challenge her 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! Nice sessions here!
Leash off games are off to a good start. She found it exciting 🙂 These 2 videos were the same, let me know if there was another one. The next step here is to be standing, then moving: take the leash off and reward after she sticks with you. Then if that goes well, take the leash off and reward after you move a few steps and she sticks with you. Then add a jump to the picture: for her to ignore and not to run to, when the leash comes off.
Weaves: having certain parts more open for success and certain parts more closed is great! You can also add a cone wrap or wing wrap before the weaves so you have more control over her approach – she needs to sort the entry when she is coming at them from more speed, so the wrap before it will help a lot.
> I havent done alot of me changing the angle of the send since went to more poles>
Time to add that, because it will change her striding and you want her to sort that out now, before the poles get straighter.
For the contacts: at this point, try to be more systematic about moving across them: you can back chain like you did on the last rep here, but that also means not letting her start without you 🙂 If the contacts can’t be lowered, then definitely back chain. You can bring her over to it on leash then pick her up (thankfully she is small :)) Also – you will want to add criteria for the end. Does she have a target you can use? On the video here, she went down the plank but jump off the side (did not touch yellow) and turned back to you. So definitely time to add a target to help her complete criteria.
Nice work on these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
