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Hi! The video shows as still processing, which is weird! You might want to check that it loaded?
Thanks!
THi!
>. He does not have any type of cue that looks like this or mean to go behind me. But he does like to make circles as a thing. Usually it happens when he is confused and needs to just move (frustration circle). >
Interesting! He didn’t look frustrated here and nothing had happened to frustrate him. So he just thought it was correct LOL! Doing it with the jump and with a wall behind you can fix that question.
>That session yesterday was 15 min, including set up, play time between reps, etc. Today we did 12 minutes. He had 45 minute off leash walk today at lunch, chewed on a beef cheek for 2.5 hrs. until this training session, trained and now he is thinking about dozing off, but it’s probably too close to dinner time. So, yeah… I need to retire to entertain my dog. Thanks for the tips on extra exercise and chewing while girls are in season. Makes sense.>
OMG! You need a racing whippet. There are currently 2 in my house, so the baby Maligator gets about 20 minutes a day of racing one of them. That is all he needs LOL!! Then he is happy to chill out. I will send you a racing whippet to borrow til Judge is through adolescence LOL!!!!
The backwards sending to the barrel looks good! You were tending to start moving at the same time each time – when he was arriving at the barrel. I think using a line on the ground will help you leave sooner: place the line on the ground a few inches before the barrel, and start moving away when he gets to the line. Then if that is fine and dandy, move the line so it is a foot in before the barrel, and start moving away when he gets to it. Then keep moving the line forward, to give you that distinct “move now” moment 🙂
>We started the rocking horse. I moved it along given the impending snow – barrels are more than 6′ apart – he is already bigger than all of the adult female Mals that I know (and a couple of males), so we needed some room. I also added a couple of turn and burns at the end.>
Perfect! In the large class last night, we had everyone move their barrels out more because it went so well. The Border Collie ended up at about 15 feet apart, no problem 🙂 The trick is to balance moving them further and further apart to keep things interesting, but not progressing too quickly and ending up with too much failure.
On the first few reps, you did a FC on barrel 1 (and 2 if you did more than 2) and a post turn on last barrel. Ending on a FC or a turn and burn makes things more exciting, so do that on the last barrel 🙂
You can definitely add more room between the barrels now – as you add more room, remember to stay exactly in the center when doing the FCs. On some of the reps you were drifting out a little so he had to go around you to find the barrels. You can see that at :49 and 1:00 for example.
You can also add your wrap verbals here too! I don’t think you were saying them.
There will be some good indoor stuff here in week 6 and also next week is a chill week, so maybe the weather will get civilized again after this brief bout of snow!
>And a real life win – I called him off a rabbit in the yard that he was starting to chase!
That is impressive! WOW!!
Nice work here 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
She is really good about committing to the barrels!
>I’m wondering about her going so wide on her wraps. Should I be encouraging a tighter wrap?>
The right turn wraps (barrel further from the camera) were really good, pretty tight! The only thing I would add to that side is more direct connection and keeping your dog-side arm back to her and not at your side, so it is very clear where to be (closed shoulders/ softer connection make young dogs drift wide waiting for more info).
On the left turn side (closer to the camera), she wasn’t turning wide, necessarily………. she was looking at the tunnel 🙂 So you can be more distinct in the FC with clearer rotation and big conenction and moving directly away, so it is more obvious to her that you want the wrap and not the tunnel 🙂 She was much tigher on that wrap when you were closer to the barrel, because the info was clearer for her.
The other thing you can do is add in turn and burn so she chases you around the barrel more – add it in after every 2 or 3 barrel wraps. That unexpected countermotion is fun and also it keeps her paying attention to the turn, because you might take off and run away at any moment 🙂
Great job!
TracyYay! I am glad they enjoyed it LOL! It is a bit less serious than the other games but still useful 🙂 She was definitely pumped up and had more challenging climbing around! That was a pretty impressive shpile LOL!!!
She seemed to find the bigger things to be the hardest: the donut and the peanut, for example. The lower and more stable things looked pretty easy 🙂
You can break things off to get tugging involved more frequently to keep her arousal level high and if you can set this up at the club with other people around, you can do the restrained recalls – that incorporates the arousal from running into the proprioception!Nice work!
Tracy
Hi! These were insightful videos!!!
On the first run, running next after the PWD was hard – he did well while you were stationary but had trouble when you started moving into the ring (pulling to the end of the leash and vocalizing). You can start the pattern games as you enter the ring, as well as the volume dial game (he loves the hand touches!)
That will help get his mind off the other dog – and anything else in the environment. That way you know if he is engaged and if you want to take the leash off or not. On the 2nd run, he took off a bit when the leash came off, so asking for tricks before you take the leash off will help him stay engaged in those contexts.
>I’ve been incorporating ring crew into our class work whenever I can. I’ll have to come up with some ideas on how to make them ruder!>
It was great to see them all in the ring here, and he TOTALLY noticed even though he ‘knows’ them. A couple of things on that:
You can make them ruder by giving them things to eat, or having them look at him/smile at him 🙂 or even get up and walk around.
But, I think I heard the instructor say something like “Stomp your feet if he comes to you” I disagree with that a whole lot. The reason I think it is not the best thing to do is because it makes humans unpredictable and weird and punishing… which increases anxiety/stress to have them in the ring. And when the brain gets stressed by stuff like that, the person actually appears BIGGER and is harder to ignore, causing him to want to investigate it MORE (and not be able to ignore it easily). That might be why he finds it hard to ignore new ring crew – he doesn’t trust that they are not going to be weird or unsafe.
>Coal is more the I’ve got to go find out what it’s about type of guy. >
Exactly! He is like “I gotta make sure that guy is not weird or going to do something unsafe”.
So what should they do if he comes over? Absolutely nothing. Just ignore him. Scroll on Facebook. Look past him or very gently tell him to go find you. Anything normal 🙂 Some people get stiff and turn their backs on the dog… that is weird and not normal, so I don’t recommend it.
If the people are reliably normal and predictable, he is going to have an easier time ignoring them.
Since ignoring them is challenging even when he doesn’t run over to them, be sure to reward when he ignores them and continues past them on course. On the first video, he definitely was aware of the ring crew person at 3:35 when he was running a line right towards and past her! He was very aroused (moving fast) and a little off kilter in jumping (bars down) but he was able to run past and not go visit. Definitely reward that!!
>Had a discussion with the instructor about popping the weaves, she asked why are you rewarding him – my answer was he’s working with me and he did a lot of good stuff before he popped.>
I agree with you here – we can really only ‘train’ one thing at a time – will it be ignore the people in the ring, or will it be do the weaves. So choosing to reward ignoring the people in favor of working with you is great! The weaves will come together when he has an easier time in the environment. If he ignores the people but can’t quite weave and then is told he is wrong… he is going to get frustrated.
>I do also make it a point to always reward a return to me no matter what the reason for the disconnect was.>
I agree with the approach too!
>The backside slice was tough with the tunnel staring at him – it was all about me moving!
That section was hard! Connecting more directly after the backside (exit line connection) so he knows where to be will really help. Also, it looks like he did that really hard line with a ring crew person right there the whole time – he did a great job ignoring them! SUPER!!!
>the MYOB seminar you have coming up – is it the same one that I have already from last year or is it new and improved?>
There is a little overlap from last year in webinar 1 (thus the discount code) but the rest is new 🙂 and has really fun new stuff coming from the flyball instructor too!
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>yes, she definitely doesn’t like any of the others getting a talking to. She also doesn’t like it when Abbie and Link bolt out the dog door to bark (neither do I 🙂 ). I think we keep the “I’m tired of so many dogs in the house” voice to a minimum. At least I hope we do. But, it’s going to happen with four very different 4-legged personalities and three humans living together.>
Ha! I can totally relate to the “I’m tired of so many dogs in the house” voice LOL!!! When I slip into that voice, I often toss treats or toys to the more sensitive dogs, so when the MOMMA IS HAVING A BIG MAD voice comes out, they associate it with toys and treats and don’t get worried 🙂
>He isn’t dangerous, just annoying.>
He needs his owner to take the MYOB webinar!
>>What I saw was my dog knowing I had her back. She wasn’t afraid, nor was she upset. >
Yay!! Sounds like she was simply observing the chaos without getting worried. That is great!
>So, the energy in the room isn’t great. But, isn’t that life sometimes? All I can do is stay supportive for my dogs and teach them to trust me in all situations.>
This is so true!!! When things go sideways in terms of energy in the room, or my mood 🤯😂😂 I still want to support the dogs and keep them happy 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>6 people in the class with a mix of dogs. I spaced out on bringing really good treats (beyond cheese) but luckily I had a sample bag of these chicken nibbler things. Variety for the win. She did so well! (sorry no video)>
That is awesome! I bet she was happy to be out and about!
>Did pattern games on the way in and she was able to walk by 3 crated and 1 on leash dog even doing several steps forward while looking up at me before I tossed the next treat. Settled on her cot in the corner where I set up shop when I secretary. Then pattern gamed (it’s a verb now!) and did a few tricks across the aisleway that borders the ring entrances while a dog was running and another was waiting. Into the practice jump area (it is blocked off from the ring by tall office cubicle walls and a swinging gate but you can hear all the noise from the ring). Did a few reps of leash off, leg weave, catch treat/release to wrap a wing, leash back on. (she was definitely aware of the ring sounds but had pretty snappy responses). Then back across the aisleway while a dog was running to her snuffle mat. Repeated the whole thing to the practice jump and back after she hung out on her cot for a while. Then we left.>Super! All sorts of training without needing to do any explosive movement. I love it!!!
>Khamsin, Kristin and I have plans for this weekend which include bringing Mochi & Kaladin to act as other distractions outside the ring when a young dog is working and to let them play in the ring when a young dog is waiting. Kristin had the great idea to practice entering while another dog was leaving and leaving when the next dog was entering. I’ll have to see if I can talk Dean into coming for part of it. I thought I’d also have him play leash runner in my basement ring setup.>
Yes to all of this, especially letting them see another dog exiting/entering. That is a fact of life in agility so we need to make sure they are exposed to it. And since UKI is a popular venue, you can also show them the leash runner taking the leash AND the toy left with it, because that will likely happen in their worlds too 🙂
Maybe Dean can be a judge too? Or two dogs working and one of you can be a judge too? So many options 🙂
Have fun! Keep me posted!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I meant to tell you before how much I appreciated your flowcharts and progression info. Loved the decision trees and flowcharts! That’s totally speaking my language>
HA! Glad you like it!! It is outside of my comfort zone way of thinking of things, but the visuals helped people so I put them together 🙂
>The first was I had the handler before me pause a bit while we came into the ring while I would see if Reacher would notice. He did not, but there was some stuff in the way and the dog/handler combo were not being very interesting!>
Still an excellent rehearsal, though!!!!
>The other thing I tried was to rev him up with some sneaky talk at the start line, partly because we had a “delay of game” while our instructor remembered to put the hoop on the dog walk, and I wanted to try something kind of between the normal stay + lead out with the extra sneaky cartoon mashup. The first try was too much! And I didn’t lead out far enough. >
I think he liked it! And I agree his question was more about your lead out position – you didn’t lead out that far, then took off and ran without a lot of connection, so there was no real cue to go the DW. You can lead out further while doing the crouchy silliness and maintain connection on the release, and he will have it. Remember to lean away from him when you are lining him up, not towards him – that can be a lot of pressure.
>Second try was better and he seemed to really enjoy me talking a bit dirty to him at the start. I’ll keep working on this with him to hold the stay while I rev him a bit >
Yes! And you can creep away more slowly, then throw a reward back to help maintain the stay 🙂
> he seems to respond more to verbal volume dialing vs. me touching him so much. Same is true in barn hunt when he finds the rat he does NOT like to be touched, whereas my other dogs have really liked that and it revved them up way more. Reacher no likey. Verbals and goofy faces he likes!>
I think Reacher is actually in the majority here – most dogs working in the optimized arousal state might tolerate hugs and kisses and being touched or playing smack da baby… but they don’t actually want it or enjoy it. My dogs all hate it too and move away from it.
>Anyway, I think I had an extra weave round in the video, sorry, but the other interesting and unexpected “proofing” came in with the noise during our last sequence of weaves. Do you hear that screeching sound?! Yeah, a guy was sawing metal just on the other side of the ring wall by the entrance and it was loud! Didn’t seem to phase him though so I was really happy with that. Felt like a fun victory to share so I included it here.>
That was a BIG victory!!!! It was a crazy noise! I bet his ability to ignore it is directly drawn from him learning to work outdoors while your hubby was making machine noises in the his shop! That was hard at first, remember that early video? Then it was no problem, which is probably why this noise was no problem. Plus, you have built a ton of value for running courses. Big win!!!
Great job :) Tracy
Awesome! It sounds like he was able to work through a challenging environment! Question: did you use the pattern games? Doing the back and forth pattern game might be the most helpful thing for him n t his situations. Yes, you will be tossing chicken around in Home Depot 🤣😂 but I think that will be fine!
Keep me posted 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Turn and burn with the toy in your pocket went great! You can keep working on doing the FC earlier and earlier, using the line on the ground. This will build in to the rocking horses too!>Still finding novel items that are too tasty or too novel!>
Ha! Everything is exciting LOL!!! So you can use distance for it (putting the stuff further away) or height – put it up on a chair so it is visible but out of reach. She did well with it (that bag of ziwi peak must have smelled great!) but you can use distance or height to help her not want to investigate it as the first order of business 🙂
The beginning of the rocking horse game looked terrific! Watching her here, I think we can make an adjustment because she is so small: rather than reward rom your hand, toss the reward slightly ahead on the ground. I suggest this because she is trying to wrap the cone and barrel and look all the way ip at you hands, which makes it harder to pass your hands (she is looking up or jumping up towards them). So if we change the placement of the reward by putting it on the ground, so she looks forwards and downwards more, and less up at you.
When you did 3 barrels, she did really well! Just remember to make that big connection to her eyes as she is catching up to you, before sending to the next barrel. If you don’t connect, she looked up and jumped up a bit there.
And you can add your wrap verbals to the sends now too, since she is going to the barrel/cone pretty consistently.
>Dream was playing with his squeaker toy in an attempt to disrupt class.>
That was so funny! He wanted to make sure you knew that he was available to play at any time LOL!
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Great job playing with the markers here!
>I used to be resistant to multiple markers, but I found myself adding them anyway!>
Same! Plus, I found that it helped my get better behavior and less looking at me (and less frustration in the dogs). We don’t need a zillion markers, we just need a few useful ones that the dog understands.
>As I’m looking at this video, I see they aren’t terribly CLEAN, though. I’ll need to work on that. 🙂 And I have more markers than I thought I had.>
You’ve got plenty of good ones!!! They are pretty clean 🙂 Yes, try to say the marker before moving the reward and you were good with that for the most part! It is something that you will want to actively plan before each session: which marker to use, and remind yourself to say it then move the reward (or let the him move first, like with the dish marker).
My only 2 suggestions are small:
For the ‘yes’ marker, move your hand to him slowly to deliver the treat, so he doesn’t explode forward to it or move his feet – that can make it even more useful for when you want to deliver it when he is holding a position.Yay for the party marker! You can say it once or twice, and then when you arrive at the cookies you can switch to praise as you deliver them. If ‘party’ means that you were going to move to the cookie bowl, then it might be confusing if you are saying it and handing him treats. So using praise while you deliver them can keep the ‘party’ marker clearer.
The only other marker to consider adding is a “the reward is being tossed back to you” marker. I use ‘catch’ for this (although the dog is not actually required to catch it 🙂 ) and it really helps for stays and stopped contacts!
Great job here!
TracyText and demo from future MaxPup discussing exit line connection:
After every cross, clear connection is critical to cue both the turn and the next line. Exit Line connection is the ‘regular’ connection that the dog needs to see after every front cross and blind cross. While finishing the rotation of the turn, the handler MUST look back at the dog’s eyes while keeping her dog-side shoulder and arm back (and out of the way) so that the dog can see her face and front of chest.
Here is the ELC demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWCVQlbIbUs
If the connection after the cross is too soft (or non-existent), the dog might end up on the wrong side of you, or go wide, or drop a bar, or slow down waiting for information. Dogs often find a way to ‘buy time’ on course while waiting for more information, and that is why we often see dogs collect before a jump but drift wide. Good connection solves this problem while also helping your timing for the cross and for the line after the cross. “Soft “ connection looks like the handler looking down towards her side, and/or using her dog-side arm to indicate a spot near her or ahead of her. This is unclear for the dog who is behind her and looking for information about the next line.
Training YOUR Mechanics
In order to create a good connection on the exit line of your crosses, we are going to train you to use specific mechanics as you finish the cross. Be sure you have a reward that is visible and attractive to the dog, such as a tug toy or a food dispenser toy (like a lotus ball or treat hugger).
After finishing a cross, you are going to reward the dog by continuing to run while looking at the dog’s eyes and presenting the reward with the opposite hand across your body so the reward is on your dog-side hip. Be sure the dog sees the reward! Keep running until the dog reaches you then let him run through the reinforcement (allowing him to grab the toy and take it from you, or you can throw the cookie holder forward).
This creates the exit line connection by dropping your dog-side arm and shoulder down and back to fully reveal the connection the dog needs. Trying to connect with the dog using your dog-side arm/hand is simply not as clear – the dogs simply do not read the dog-side hand as something to drive towards after a cross.
Add exit line connection to the crosses and spins you use on your sequence and you will see amazing results!Good morning!
>Not the greatest session today. >
I read this before watching the video – but I think the session was far better than it felt in the moment! SO MANY good things!
>This was definitely a lot for her brain,>
She did well overall – the errors were handling errors, she was correct all the way through 🙂 And there were gunshots in the background (or something like that) and that might have added to the processing burden but she did great!
I do think the session was too long though – it was a 4 minute edited session, which means it was longer than that. That is a long session for a skill that involves running.
> you can see she even left working at the end to go try to see a friend (who was close to 100’ away and with two fences in between us). >
Yes, the friend said something or became visible so she went to say hi. This was at the end of a long session and at the end of the video, you open the can of worms of a different skill so she didn’t have a lot of bandwidth left there. You were approaching it from the perspective of getting easy reinforcement, but it was a self-control challenge so it was harder than it looked. Plus, you don’t need to end a session with easy wins, you can just end it. The session had a ton of reinforcement (more on that below).
Looking at the video – she turned well in both directions (I was looking for a strong side or a weak side, but both were strong! When you sent and let her get almost to the obstacle before you turned and ran away, she very consistently committed 🙂 Super!
On a couple of reps, you were trying to leave earlier as you mentioned which ended up with you not really giving her a strong send cue (like at rep 4, then at 2:52. So the strong leg send makes a big difference for her.
And if you accidentally pull her off the obstacle – no worries! Keep things ‘clean’ by resetting her with a cookie (which also keeps the overall rate of reinforcement high and offsets the handler error) then send her more clearly on the next rep. If you try to send again without a smooth reset, you are possibly going to be unclear and pull her off again – so the reset cookie rewards her effort with unclear info, and also allows you a moment to set up clear info for the next rep 🙂
Plus reset cookies help the pups not get any BIG MAD feelings when we mess up the handling because we humans will indeed mess up the handling LOL!! !
The other thing that was happening was as she was exiting the obstacle, she did not always see the very clear connection to get to the side you wanted her to be in. You can see this on rep 6, and at 2:20, for example.
She was not incorrect and definitely not cheating LOL So you can still have big rewards on those moments and don’t mark it as wrong or deflate your energy.
What was happening was that as she was exiting the obstacle, you were running forward with your dog-side shoulder closed (arm swinging back and forth, but the shoulder was closed forward so she could not clearly see your eyes). Ideally, you open the shoulder by locking your dog-side arm back towards her, with your fingers pointing allllll the way back to her nose 🙂 and trying to make eye contact. Don’t use the next verbal til you see she has gotten the cue to go to the correct side – then you can say “go” or “toy”.
If she doesn’t see clear connection, she will be guessing as to which side of you to be on so is likely to stay on her line. Then if yo say Go or the toy marker, she will drive to it at warp speed 🙂
So if she ends up on the ‘wrong’ side of you… that is great feedback from her that connection needs to be clearer as she exits the obstacle.
If you check out the rocking horse game posted last night, you will see how important the exit line connection is – and I left in a good blooper where I closed my shoulder forward and the dog did not see which side to be on, so he ended up on the ‘wrong’ side of me – my fault, not his, he got rewarded (I wish I had *not* edited that out of the video! Oops!)
I have videos of specifically what I mean about exit line connection, I will post them in the next reply here.
>So I guess I’d love hints on how to make progress and keep up without over facing? I struggle to keep sessions short enough and the success rate high and still add even 1-2 reps of anything new.>
For the handling stuff, I live by the mantra that errors are handling errors 🙂 So I will reward the dog even when it goes wrong, because chances are I was either late or unclear with info (or both! I can be an overachiever like that LOL!) and the dog is doing the best she can with the info she has. I reward and then if I know what happened… I fix it on the next rep. For example, pup ended up on the ‘wrong’ side of me? I was probably not connected clearly enough, so I connect more. If I don’t know what was wrong, I will go watch the video before the next rep (usually it is a connection issue with young dogs, they need a LOT of connection).
And during the rewards for when I mess up – I still reward with high energy (even if my brain is processing at a million miles per hour) because the pup was reading me correctly. I don’t think you were over-facing her at all – I think she was correct in how she read the info so you can reward that.
Ramping up the connection will help things move forward very quickly!
And setting a timer on the session (3 minutes is good for a handling game with a toy, or turn on a pop song) then taking a break is a good way to keep on track. And you can look at the video on the break too, to see what you liked and what can go better for the next session.
I also live by the 2 failure rule (even if I am happily rewarding the dog for ending up on the ‘wrong’ side of me) – if it goes wrong twice, I will change *something* to get more of the behavior I want to get. This can be slowing myself down, or really ramping up the connection, or looking at the video, or ending for the day and letting the latent learning gods work their magic LOL!!
Overall it was a strong session! Stay tuned for more on the connection on the cross exits – everything happens FAST when there is sighthound involved, so the connection info needs to be early and clear.
Tracy
