Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>><< I don’t think you need the arm across your body as part of the cue because it makes it harder to shift the connection to the landing while you move forward.>>
Are you suggesting that I don’t use the arm across the body for any type of connection or just in this scenario? Am I mixing up exit line connection cues with shifting connection cues?>>The arm coming across the body as part of a commitment cue like a front side wrap or circle wrap is not something I recommend, because it inhibits rotation and it inhibits shifting connection (the shifting connection is much easier with the arm on the ‘new’ side (closer to the wing) and that allows for fuller and earlier handler rotation. Plus the arm across the body as part of a commitment cue can also look like a RC cue.
I use the arm across the body for exit line connection (it moves the shoulder back in the learning stages, then we fade it out as the brain re-wires :)) and there are other uses for the opposite arm but those are generally not used with handler rotation like front side wraps and circle wraps.
>>Just to clarify, you’re saying that even though it worked to get her to commit, I actually should not wait for her.>>
Correct! Picture a jump bar there – you would be on landing side which would change the jumping line and could cause her to land on the bar or do a slice instead of a wrap. Plus, staying there puts you behind her and we want to keep you ahead!
>>I just need to do a better job of shifting my connection to the landing spot? (And probably work on circle wraps more in general since they aren’t something we really do much of).>>
Yes and yes 🙂 Independence on these circle wraps – such a hard skill but totally worth it!
Tracy
Hi!
The serps on your left were looking good! Your position as she exited the wing was clearly serp position, so you were able to get really good serp behavior!>>For some reason, I was struggling pretty hard with her on the right. I kept getting a threadle. >>
I think on the first rep at :25 she saw you in threadle position (near the entry wing) as she came around the start wing, plus you were shifting connection…. So she threadled. Then she was in threadle mode 🙂 because the next rep had good rep position.
>>I was able to see in the video (which I watched in between reps) that I was pulling my shoulder back to get the threadle instead of the serp.>>
Maybe a little, and it might be the harder side for her too. Also, I think that she responds to positional cues for the serp versus threadle (threadle near the entry wing, serp closer to the exit wing). You helped her by showing the line as more of a backside and that did help. The other way to help is to angle the jump towards her, so she sees the front of the bar and doesn’t see the threadle line as much. And you won’t feel as stuck on her line. You shouldn’t need a backside verbal (because it is front side based on where she should be coming from) there but a jump verbal can help.
When you add the countermotion exits where you move forward past the exit wing of the serp (towards the camera here, and not towards the next wing), 2 ideas for you:
– go forward past the wing as directly as you can, running parallel to the bar as little as possible. That will get you to the takeoff side sooner so she can adjust her stride to make a collected turn. And it will require more of a collection shift to the landing spot as you run forward 🙂 If she sees you running parallel to the bar, she will set up a slice exit and have to turn when she lands (you can hear her grunt then grumble when she does that).
– as you run through the serp lines, try to run through the reward for 6 or 7 more steps so you are not hitting the brakes and dropping the toy as she is over the bar especially with the countermotion exit. That causes her to land heavy on her shoulders (more grunting and grumbling LOL). If you keep moving, she will chase your line and then you can throw the lotus ball ahead of her.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
There was nothing on the first video, 3 seconds of just the jump 🙂 Let me know if there was supposed to be a different video?
The threadles on the 2nd video are going well – he was able to find the threadle side from several different angles on the first side! Nice!
He had a couple of errors on the other side so you can make the angle easier of him by having him sit more directly facing the threadle line and not facing the front side of the jump. Looking at your hand and making your hand more obvious also helped!
For the threadles – definitely add in a release from the stay. It can be your release word or your threadle cue, but the verbal release is key. He was releasing on your hand movement here so we want to add in a big loud obvious release word 🙂
Going to the dish was good to help him find the line! You can also add a ‘get it’ or ‘dish’ marker for the reward placement (but the release verbal is more important :))Good job getting him to go through the tunnel! He was a bit wary at first (he seems a little taller than the tunnel! So scrunching it up seemed to help and showing him the reward to get his head lower TOTALLY helped. Since he was still not 90-100% sure about it, do one more session with it scrunched up before extending it more, so he is very confidently flying through it.
Since you are working on getting him to NOT jump up at you…
He was really good about offering a sit for a while and not jumping up for about 15 seconds in the middle here… that was too long and he ended up jumping up at your hands. So as you are reloading treats, you can toss a few treats into the grass so he has something to do, or you can be faster so he doesn’t have to be patient for more than 5 seconds for now. Then reward the polite sit – he was being a good boy!Great job here :) Tracy
Good morning!
>>Game 1 felt too simple. Like I was doing something wrong because it was too simple. I didn’t do it much because she seemed to get it unless we did it wrong??>>
Ha! It went great – nothing wrong. Nailed it! My only suggestion is to throw the reward back more to the entry wing (and not close to your line at all) so as she comes about the wing, she is looking to the bar for the reward and not at you 🙂
In other news, she seems to really like the new toy now – opening it herself in the first game and trying to skip the jumps to go get it in the 2nd game LOL!!! I am glad she likes it!
>>I can’t figure out what I did wrong with Kashia. I ended up going slower and pointing at the jumps to get her to go through them. Which that’s obviously not disconnection but I wanted some success and to be clear that she can run between the two wings.>>
All of the right turn reps at the beginning and end looked great!
Even though things didn’t go according to plan on the other side, I still count it as a good session and you made great adjustments – changing the reward placement at 1:30 to try to make it more obvious, putting the bars on the ground, using handling to help her… all good! And you did get a lot of success by the end
So what was happening? You didn’t do anything wrong as a handler or trainer. It looks like she was having a typical adolescent/inexperienced dog case of the “go fasters” and we are seeing her side preference: she appears to be a righty (note how easy it was for her when she turned right to get the line, and how much harder it was when she turned left to get the line).
By “go fasters” what I mean is when the young dog kicks up the speed to the next level (yay!) but the coordination of turning to the hard direction (left, for her) is not fully in place yet – so they end up going around the jumps. We see this all the time with dogs her age (18 months old, approximately, right?). I think you will see some moments of this with my young whippet in the MaxPup Track: he has ALL the ‘go fasters’ but not necessarily all of the coordination to find the jumps on left turns.
So what to do? Well, we LOVE the speed the dogs are producing so a couple of ideas for you to also help her find the jumps:
– Do it on one jump only, so it is a little easier for her to coordinate
– With 2 jumps, place the toy on the ground between the 2 jumps for a few reps, then if she is successful, move to it to the landing of jump 2. Alternatively, you can do this WITHOUT a placed toy because it might be easier of her to look for the jumps without the joy of the reward on the ground 🙂
– Slow down your motion a little so you are doing a slow jog. That can help her process her mechanics without also having to process your speed.
And with some time between sessions, I bet latent learning will kick in and help her sort it out. That happens ALL the time – a session where we can’t really get the dog to do something, then they sleep on it and we try again in a couple of days and BOOM! They have it 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Really nice sessions here! You worked out what the cues are that can get her flying away for the ‘get out’ 🙂 Yay!
At the beginning of the first video you were not quite moving up the line enough (:33, :55) but you totally adjusted that and added moving up the line really well (like at 1:15) – super!!Nice balance at the end of the first video – the handling clearly said to go straight and she never looked at the ‘get out’ wing 🙂
On the 2nd video – this went super well!! So now we can add more distance and independence 🙂 To get that, you can add a line on the ground so as you give the emphatic cues, you don’t move in toward the get out wing at all (this is HARD to keep moving straight and not towards the wing on this game!!)
One thing that will help you keep moving straight and not towards the get out wing is to use the dramatic outside arm like you did at 1:20 and 1:44, but a little lower – shoulder height and pointing at the wing. This is indeed a high arm cue but you can totally play with it to find the sweet spot of exactly where to use it.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! Hope you are having fun at the trial!
>>The more I’m able to maintain a connection with Mira in course, the easier my handling and our runs become and the more confident I’m getting on course.>>
Yay! I agree – good connection makes everything else sooooo much easier: timing, commitment, etc which makes us humans a lot more confident on course!
Looking at the videos – great job here! She responds immediately to the connections shifts and accompanying hand cues!!! (Actually, she responds brilliantly to everything!)
Video 1:
Nice job with all the cues here! At :03 & :45 you had a bit of a hand cue for the front of the jump – I don’t think you need that for her (and you didn’t use it on the other clips and she did great :))
At :10 – very nice timing of the threadle cue – no problem for her to read it! Note how you were starting it when she exited the wing before the jump. You can add in making it a threadle wrap there by continuing to move forward as she is turning the opposite direction.
At :30 and :53 she is reading the tandems well too! You can cue these earlier – she can see your hands start to move and your connection shift from her eyes to your hands start to happen when she exits the wing before it. You were doing it closer to the takeoff spot of the jump here but doing it sooner will give her more time to prepare and also will make it even more of an independent skill 🙂
Video 2:
As you were getting ready to do the tandem here, you actually shifted your connection too early on the first 2 reps 🙂
At :08 the connection shift was early (she came around the wing and your were looking forward/ahead of her) so she almost did a blind cross there. You quickly reconnected so she stayed on your left side. At :27 the same thing happened, so she did end up (correctly) going to the other side of you.So for timing: when she exits the wing you can make a big connection, show your hands and then shift into the turn away cues (more like what you did at :43, but you can make a connection to her even more first before shifting connection) Or, if you aren’t turning away, make and maintain connection like you did at :37 – that was very clear connection!
The tandems on video 3 looked good! You can play with how much sooner you can show them to her – big connection as she exits the wing then shifting to your hand/turn away cues. That can really get her moving away super independently.
Great job here! Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
TracyGood morning!
The lateral lead out game looked great. And our ultimate goal is to be able to happily use food and toys in the same session, and that is what happened here – SUPER!!!
Stays looked good! She found the barrel nicely after the release! My only suggestion is that you can put yourself on a line parallel too the barrel so it is not lateral & forward on the send to get to it (only lateral). You can bring the barrel in closer if you think the stay behavior might suffer if you lead out more – the stay is looking really strong so we don’t want to mess with it 🙂
Barrel wrapping for the circle wraps was a fun choice of game after the control of the lateral lead outs. I think there was some confusion about the circle wraps – you were behind her then suddenly exploded forward (while looking at her) before she was finishing the wrap, so she was not sure where to be. You waited longer on the net reps and she was able to do it. You can add in more of the circle wrap countermotion by moving at a steady pace the whole time (until she exits the wrap, then you can run :)) and as you move up the line behind her, shift your connection to where the landing spot would be (and throw the reward back there). That will help her know where to look and go to, rather than looking at you 🙂
>>Caffeine inspired brilliance for the win. This is the microwaveable snugglesafe pad. Cover can shift a bit but it’s generally decent traction. At first it was so low she was going over it but then she figured it out and is pivoting more.>>
Huzzah! Caffeine for the win! I’m celebrating by having more caffeine hahaha
I definitely see more pivoting – yes, it took her a moment to realize that the new object was for pivoting, but even in those moments, she was moving more freely with her hind end than before. Super! You can deliver the reward with her head turned away from where she is pivoting too, like you did at :38. Expecting that reward placement can get even more pivoting!
Great job here! Have fun this weekend!!
TracyGood morning!
The distance here between the cavalettis was great! Much better trotting and a more comfortable distance for him. In the 2nd video, he accidentally moved the middle one and it was a little angled – perfect! You can angle these but keep the same center-to-center distance. The angling creates a little more challenge because the visual is weirder 🙂
>>He’s still looking at my hands, but hopefully that will eventually go away.>>
It probably won’t go away on its own, so remember to put an empty food bowl out past the cavaletti on each side – probably 3 feet away is perfect. You would then toss the treat into it. The bowl should provide a focal point. He might blast his way through the cavalettis to it the first time (because he is STARVING hahaha) so you can break it down to just one cavaletti and let him see that the trotting gets the cookie to fly into the bowl 🙂
He did well with the remote reinforcement! Showing him that your hands were empty made his head explode a little LOL!!
Two suggestions:
You can say “let’s go’ before you start moving back to the treats – you did that sometimes, and on other times you were moving back to them before you said it. Saying it before moving will really help solidify the verbal.Also, you can put the whole bag of treats on the table so you don’t have to reload from the different location – he was actually working double time because the treats were in 2 spots! Good boy!! It will be easier if all the treats are in one spot 🙂
>>though he did knock something off the table I used
That was when you made a point to show him the treats you put down at approx 1:00 – I think it was too much focus on the treats when you showed then to him so he couldn’t quite tear himself away. On the other reps, you didn’t make big deal out of putting the treats down and he did great!
Nice work here!!
Tracy
He is doing well here too! My main suggestion is not to step to the out jump – that looked more like a forward send and made it harder for you to keep moving. You can move on a parallel line to the bar and use your upper body to cue it but your feet will keep moving forward to the next wing. Do it slowly at first so he can find the line without focusing too much on your motion.
He had little trouble finding the right turn wrap on the wing nearer to the camera. At 1:25 he needed more connection on the send to the wing (he need to turn right and came in and turned left there)
At 1:40 you used more motion which blocked the wing, and it sounds like he went into a nearby tunnel (good boy!)
It was better connection and great line of motion at 2:08 until he got ahead and then you turned forward (also showing us his left turn preference )
2:26 and 3:32 were great – great motion and great connection so he got it. Yay!
Nice work here! Keep me posted on how he does this weekend!
Tracy
Hi!
He did well here finding the out jump! You can add even more distance:
Try not to step to the out jump at all – that makes it a forward send and takes you off the handler line of motion.You can keep moving forward to the next wing and let your upper body cue the out jump with the extreme connection (and outside arm too)
Yo can add a little more connection to the cue for the wing wraps at :17 and :24 – you were looking forward a bit on those reps so he was not sure where to be.
Nice job!!
TracyGood morning!
>>The weather is definitely not cooperating. The ground is saturated and another atmospheric river is on the way.
Argh! News reports here are showing some really bad weather on the West Coast!!! Fingers crossed it goes away FAST because it has been a bad winter for you California folks!!!
>>When is our last day to post?
February 21st is the last day – it seemed like a good idea to leave plenty of time because the weather is so unpredictable everywhere this year.
>>It LOOKS like you are using an outside arm on the back cue along with extreme connection. What if you are in a box? We just used the off arm to get the out. So, how does the dog know it’s the back of the jump ahead of them and NOT to go out sideways to the off course jump?>>
Yes, I use the outside arm with a couple of my dogs on the backside. 2 elements of the context make the difference between the backside and a get out: Verbal is a big one of course and the proximity of off course lines/jumps is why the verbals have become so darned important.
And the other reason is line of motion, which is slightly different between the get out and the backside slice cues (that incudes the motion of the outside arm: for a get out, my arm points to the exit wing of the get out jump. For the backside slice, my outside arm points to the entry wing of the backside jump. And threadle arms point back to the dog. Agility is COMPLEX!!)
But with that in mind: what a great proofing idea!! I might take that outside today and play with a setup to see how it goes, and then I will report back 🙂
>>Also, Sprite Marie Louise will likely benefit from the extreme collection on wraps. >>
When my Voodoo was Sprite’s age, I basically had to shift connection to his eyes and move 2 hands and a foot towards him! He got a lot easier to handle with more experience (for both of us LOL!)
>Are you putting your hands towards their face as well? >>
Yes – my mantra is that my fingers are extensions of my eyeballs 🙂
>>Do you hold that pressure until you see the actual collection stride before moving in the new direction?
Yes – and the first couple of times I might even stop the dog entirely and then when I see the collection, cue the wrap behind me. It is a LOT of pressure though, so release that pressure by letting her chase you to the reward and run around with it after each rep 🙂
>>I might as well ask questions since we can’t train outdoors.>>
Definitely! Thank you for the good idea!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Working the on the puppy track still has plenty of challenge 🙂 This was a good session!
I liked your timing of the reward and the placement at :12 when you tossed the toy behind you – she didn’t quite expect it so you can use a ‘get it’ as you toss it.You switched to waiting for her to come back over the bar (which she did because of your position & connection) – but to take her to the next step of complete independence, do what you did at :12 . She will figure out very quickly that the toy will be tossed behind you and she will start to look for the jump without you (so you will be able to disconnect and run to where you need to be :))
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work here – the puppy track is plenty challenging so it was smart to switch to it!He did really well!! Two things that will help solidify this skill:
– you can send to the push from further away (further across the jump) more like what you did on the last video. That will keep you moving ahead so you can disconnect and run : )
– you can disconnect sooner and drop the toy while you are disconnected (it is hard to disconnect after all of this connection work LOL!!) Drop the toy as soon as he is heading to the backside, no need to wait until he is coming back between the uprights – you were waiting for him to come back through on some of the reps. The timing of the dropping on the 3rd and 4th videos here was spot on! The toy drop helps create the behavior of coming back to take the jump as he is learning it.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
