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Hello and welcome!!! Great to see you here!!!
Unfortunately, no live sessions here in MaxPup 3. The ‘at home’ webinars were originally done as live webinars, but that was back during covid times when it was easy for people to be home for 4 hours on a Saturday morning or Wednesday afternoon. So now that things are back to normal, the live sessions are at home webinars that people can do at their own pace.
Have fun!
Tracy
Hi!
>>AND takes the first step in the new direction.>>
The ‘new’ direction is the key, or better yet: replace the word new with the word “correct” 🙂 So if she has a left turn threadle wrap to do, she would ideally turn her head to her left and take that first step to the left (the correct & new direction) before you move forward again.
>>Do you ever use the Cato plank to help square this up like we did with the backside wrap?>>
Yes, I have used the Cato plank a bit for this. It is really a variation on the backside circle wrap with a change in handler position. But the handling does have to be super clear about waiting for the head turn and correct first step, with or without the Cato. Plus placement of reward on that wrap landing side is super helpful too.
>>Also, I noticed in Stephanie’s presentation for the slice jump exercise she had the mat and disc at an angle and we had the Cato plank parallel to the bar. Great talk last night!>>
Yes, it had so much good stuff! Using the mat & disc gives the dog less space and really isolates takeoff mechanics (love how she uses a klimb to avoid hard landings) The Cato board has more room so parallel to the bar still can show the dog the same takeoff spot, but the disc adds more specifics for sure and the unstable surface element is just a fantastic conditioning element too. Fun!!
TracyHi!
What kind of bird/animal was making those noises at the beginning? My app couldn’t figure out what it was LOL!
>>The threadle jump was an issue so I moved it.
1-2 threadle is definitely hard for her in terms of the jumping! She had a more thoughtful approach to it at :50
Some of the ideas from Stefanie from last night can help too! I will be posting the recording shortly. More ideas about handling for it below.Very nice brake arms at :54 on the wrap!!! The cues at 1:03 were a bit later and not as obvious, so the bar came down as she tried to adjust . The very obvious cues and a motion transition like decel and rotation will be very useful too!
At 1:18 you showed her a rotation sooner too and it really helped Nice job doing that at a distance and getting the backside at 6 easily!
On the next sequence:
She had trouble looking ahead at the jump with the arm cues – you can build up the cue with something placed on the ground (like a toy she likes, or a bowl of food) so the arm cue means “look at it” then release her to it when she looks. Then you can transfer the arm cues to a jump, releasing when she looks at it (and throwing a reward on the landing side).Back to the threadle handling:
She had some trouble finding the correct side, like at 2:14 and 2:24 – the in in verbal was good but she needs a bigger physical cue: Maybe she needs the brake arms to get a better turn on 2 (jump before the threadle) then open up your shoulder back and face the center of your chest to her. If the shoulders are closed forward, she reads that as a ‘stay on your line’ cue.She responded well to shoulder rotation at 2:36! Ideally you don’t also rotate your feet – at 2:57 your shoulder cue was more subtle and she still read it, and on that rep you did not rotate your feet. 3:07 had a subtle foot rotation towards her, but then you were not able to move up the line as well. So you can split the difference: exaggerate the shoulder rotation but don’t turn your feet 🙂
Great job working out the timing of the tunnel exit turns! The best one was 3:11: you got the brake arms, verbal, AND rotation in all before she entered so the turn was great! You had the verbal at 2:39 but it was a little late, and you were too quiet at 3:02 so she exited wide. The combination of the verbal and arms, nice and early, worked like a charm!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi! Lots of good stuff here!!
The layering went really well… she did best on the tunnel sends when you had a BIG LOUD verbal and maintained the parallel path (like at :09 and :17 in the first video, then she was perfect on finding the tunnel line after that!)
I think her threadle slice is going well too – my only suggestion on those is to continue to toss a reward to the landing side even as you move away (rather than have it near you after she exits the threadle). That will solidify her looking at the jump and taking it, and eliminate the run by on the landing side you got on the first rep. She is doing GREAT with the blind-to-threadle-slice!!
On the pushes to the backside on the 2nd video: like with the layering, she needs BIG LOUD cues to help process this challenge of finding the backside and not staying on the line to the tunnel 🙂
Also… try not to say “go” on the line coming into it at all. A “go” or two snuck in there and she took the tunnels on those 🙂When you were too quiet (like a soft left or her name) she didn’t process the info in time.
But when the cues were BIG and LOUD like at :45, she was able to get it! Yay!
On the backslide wraps, use the big loud cues but also let her see the entire wing. At 1:01 you were blocking the line so she took the tunnel. You rotated to her after that but I don’t think you need the rotation: you can use the verbals (and a brake arm if needed) and position yourself where the bar meets the wing, decelerating into that position. That will show her the circle wrap easily.
>>We have learned a Zip Zip (turn away backside wrap), but I’m struggling to clarify it for her. She often slices instead of wraps. How do I make the correct jump clear to her and how do I clarify that she should always wrap on this cue?>>
Three important elements to consider at this stage of training:
– Decelerate! This cue has plenty of decel to it (just like any wrap cue) and the decel is a huge part of differentiating the wrap and the slice. So decelerating into it will really help her out. Your feet were facing the right direction but you were moving fast and leaving before she processed the cue, so she either sliced or didn’t take the jump. You had decel at 1:58 on the 2nd video and boom! She got the wrap immediately 🙂 How much you need to decel in the future entirely depends on the course and the training but for now, definitely add it.
– As you decelerate, at this stage of training, don’t leave for the next line until she gives you permission to go. That permission comes in the form of her looking at the bar of the threadle side of the jump AND taking the first step in the correct new direction. So on the left-turn threadle wraps here, for example, you would stay in decel until she turns her head to the left to look at the bar AND she take a step to the wrap side with her left leg.
If you leave on just the head turn, she will slice.
If you leave before the head turn, she won’t take the jump.– I also think she needs a more obvious hand cue, maybe even both hands. If you are doing dog-side arm down low, I think it gets a little lost in the bigger picture. So maybe 2 hands down low will help and it is definitely different looking than the threadle slice! I also look at my hands on this cue, which also makes it look very different!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyWow, look a Casper!!! OMG his weaves!!! He is really fast and doing a lovely job controlling all that speed and power on the turns. So fun!
>>Not sure why he dropped bar 1>>
I chalk it up to young dog crime of passion 🙂
I think he came flying over 1, assuming it was the front side of 2… then saw and heard you cue and was like OH CRAP. Tried to adjust, didn’t quite get it done. So letting him see you there in position for another 2 or 3 seconds before the release should help eliminate that error.Great job with him!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Ah, you say “brake arm” and I say “early FC”; tomayto/tomahto
Good thing we likes tomatoes LOL! The brake arm is not always followed by a FC, and also not every FC needs a brake arm. But it sure worked nicely here!
Looking at 6-7-8:
>>There is a striding difference.>>
Yes – I think in the new runs, you getting into the gap showing a potential backside on th jump before the weaves, so you are seeing that bit of lead change which impacts the striding to the weaves.
>>I need your good eye.>>.
My eye can tell the difference in striding and collection but not necessarily which is fastest when all of them are fast. So I timed it all to quantify it:
The A and B rear crosses were close in time, and the C spin was slowest. The D post turn was fastest! I think the C spin was only slower because you didn’t ask for as much collection before takeoff as you did on B and D, so he lost a lot of yardage there. If you get the same collection as you did on D, that might ultimately be fastest.
>>Yes, I did give the “around” cue while he was still weaving. I am very confident that he can process a cue and not pop the weaves, so I do give the cue if it makes sense.>>
That is ideal!!! And very few people are brave enough to do it.
>>Apparently what his latent learning said was “add a stride”>>
Good job, Enzo-brain!!! I think the added stride is balanced and powerful, and far better on that distance than a shorter stride followed by taking off and hoping for the best. Yay Enzo!!! I am glad that hitting the jump is not something his brain ignores.
>>Lastly, I looked at the 12-13-14-15 line a few different ways.>>
This is so cool to see! Yes the slice/slice is the clear winner here, I didn’t even need to see the numbers. And in this scenario, that is great because you don’t need to be miles ahead.
He didn’t do too badly on the wraps though! The blind to takeoff side/threadle wrap is definitely a newer skill so he did lose a lot of time there (relatively speaking). But the skill is already in good shape so keep playing with it because it is going to be insanely useful when you have to magically appear on the other side of the 100 foot ring at a trial! Context will help you decide what is needed, so it is good to know what is fastest and what needs to be fine-tuned a bit. (Stay tuned for the 3rd package of sequences/courses where we directly tackle the challenge of massive long lines with something hard to be handled at the end of them).
Great job here! I love comparing and contrasting to see what is best!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Do you have suggestions for training her to look forward. I’ve tried “look” and “get it” with her toy on the other side of the jump and I’ve tried looking away from her and staring at the jump and trying to watch for a glance to the jump to reinforce, but she is pretty much just staring at me the entire time.>>
You can break it down to help her understand that you actually want her to turn her head and not just ‘see’ it all peripherally. I add a cue to it (hand indication) so the dogs learn really early to look forward at where my hand is pointing. Then it is easy to apply that cue to the jump at the start of a course. Here is a fun, easy indoor game for it:
>>Are you saying that you don’t always use your release word for a startline…that you use another cue or the obstacle name instead? >>
Correct! I will use an obstacle name or directional verbal to really indicate exactly what I want the dog to do. This is especially helpful when they cannot see me between the uprights of the first jump.
>>Using the obstacle or cue word as a “break” won’t confuse them?>>
Nope! What confuses them is when we release with motion tied into it (like a hand movement and the release at the same time) or when we don’t maintain criteria. They can release on any verbal as long as it is consistent and the context is clear.
>>So between 11 and 12, I’m basically doing a BC right into a brake arm?>>
On course 1, yes 🙂
>>Wouldn’t a slice on 17 show her a line to the tunnel?>>Wrap cues and wrap handling (send and go, or a spin) should get a nice wrap on the slice exit there without any bonus tunnels 🙂
>>Then we can go back and revisit these jumpers courses or maybe move forward to standar>>
Don’t forget about the Hot Topics and live class sequences! Those will make the big courses sooooo much easier with a young dog in particular.
Looking at the video: really nice work here on these challenges!
Leading out to the takeoff side of 2 showed the line 1-2 really well and her stay looked great! It did set a harder line to 3 because she had to go back out to find it, so pushing to the backside at 2 might be a smoother faster ling to 3 than the threadle side of 2 (threadle slices tend to set up very slicey exits).
The decel and brake arms into 6 are strong! Now rotate a lot sooner… ideally you start rotating as she passes you so she can add collection. You were facing forward at :23 and :45 and 2:26 til after she landed, so she landed hard and had a wide turn. Don’t try to manage her line around the wing – trust the training that she will collect and not back jump 🙂
You can also do a spin so she ends up on your right side, which makes it easier to get 7 and the weaves.
A RC on the takeoff side of 7 can also work! Keeping her on your left at 7 and not setting the RC line at :27 does indeed show the a-frame! The Switch on landing side of 7 is got it, but I thin it added more yardage for you both.
After the weaves: On the first round through there, you can a very clear push to backside on 9 – I don’t think she needs you to rotate to help her come in over the bar, so you can try trying connected/looking at the landing spot so you can get further ahead.
On the 2nd time through there, you needed more connection needed at 2:35 on the push – it is counterintuitive but very direct eye contact and not a lot of arm use actually really helps in sending to backsides!
10-11-12 looked great! She found that line independently!
To get to the threadle side of 13, she needs a turn cue *before* she enters 12 (big and loud so she knows to turn when she exits) and a directional other than her name for 13. She did better finding it when you were more visible outside the jump and not backing up (backwards motion is still motion that the dogs read as forward motion!)
Also, another option is that she can wrap the other side of 13 (she stays on her line after the tunnel, goes to the backside and wraps to her left) and threadle to 14, that might be the fastest line for her partially because she is good at wrapping, partially because there is probably a little less yardage, and partially because getting the slice side of 13 costs time on the tunnel exit.
The RC on the 2nd to last jump worked really nicely to set the line and have her drive forward to the end! Yay!
Great job here! Stay cool!
Tracy
Hi!
Nice work on these!!!Video 1:
Wow she looked great here with the layering! So speedy! All of that independent distance made it really easy for you to get the backside and the layering back down the line. SUPER!Her only question was on the first send where she turned right instead of left. I think it is because the send happened too fast after the toy release so she curled back to you. Setting her up at :09 worked great!
2nd video:
Thanks for posting some bloopers! She still did really well and there is only one spot she needs a bit of help with.A small blooper at :09, where she took the front of the jump: she needed you to take one more step forward to the backside at :09. You turned forward ahead of her and that did look like the front side, then she got confused so stopped. Compare to :16 when you re-sent her: you were facing the backside line and she was great with her send and commitment! Lovely!
She found the backsides perfectly (instead of the tunnel). She had a front side at 1:45 but she was correct – you called her name AND you were rotated too soon, so she took the front.
The hard part was getting her to take the bar on the backside jump.
You were trying to get her to take the jump by doing a FC, which is harder for you and also didn’t really help her. It is partially a handling thing, but also there is some training we can do to help her understand more about this scenario.2 ideas for you:
Rather than FC there, you can keep your lower body moving forward but shift your connection with your eyes and right arm (dog-side arm) to look back at the landing spot as you move past.You had this starting at 2:18 but it was a tiny bit late. She got it at 2:38 but you fully rotated – we can take out the rotation and teach her to take the jump even as you are moving forward.
Also, as you are looking back and pointing to the landing spot, you then also throw the toy to the landing side of the jump. That will build value for committing to the bar there. And you can add a backside verbal: the backside verbal means “go to the backside AND take the jump”. Her name is more of a “pay attention” cue and doesn’t really imply commitment, so I think the backside verbal will really help, along with dropping the toy on the landing side.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Apologies for somehow missing this!!I think the session went well, overall.
>>Sprite is not a bendy dog.>>
This is not a concern for me 🙂 She will sort out the fastest, most efficient way to do this when she understands it fully, and you will get really lovely fast turns. I am already seeing it in this video!!!! I have had plenty of non-bendy dogs (in terms of structure) such as all the terriers, papillons, and whippets are really not bending LOL but with understanding they set themselves up beautifully!
>She still tends to jump on a slice, but I’m not entirely sure that she can round.>>
On the first few reps when she was turning to her right, I think she was slicing more on those because she was figuring it out and waiting for a little more info: slice or wrap, human? But your reward placement was spot on (click/treat for you!) so she VERY quickly sorted it out, so she could focus on her mechanics. The wrapping got rounder and rounder, it was great!
And she either turns better to her left or she had it all figured out by then, because the left wraps looked awesome in the 2nd half of the video. Yay!
So will she ever look like a tiny highly angulated sheltie on those wraps? Nope! Structure is structure! And just because a turn looks like a gorgeous magazine cover doesn’t mean it is fast, necessarily. But can she still produce fantastic turns and powerful jumping, with highly competitive times? Heck yes! I am happy happy happy with what she did here!
A couple of things to consider: As you add movement, using 2 hands for the cue looked better than one hand. It was just more obvious and it allowed you to keep moving without bending over.
She had the bar down on the first jump once or twice, only because the BC was late so she was trying to adjust in the air. The joys of a small space in a heat wave!
>>I’m not sure how far lateral and how far forward of the wing to be.>>
For how far lateral – I would say no closer than an arm’s length, maybe a little further for now.
For how far forward: at these early stages, try to be relatively parallel to the wing. And you decel and hold the cue and position until she turns her head to the line AND takes the first step in the new direction. The head turn only will get you a slice, so the first step is the real key that she is wrapping.Eventually, you will be able to change your position to where she passes you to go to the wing, or you are miles ahead and she will still get it. The trick is the decel as you show the cues and waiting for the head turn/first step.
Great job! Stay cool!
TracyHi!
Hi!
>>There were a couple of spots where things didn’t go as planned, and I tried to keep going although it was tricky in a couple of spots like near the weaves since there was really nothing else to send her on a line to.>>
Lots of really good things here! There were a couple of spots that I think she doesn’t fully understand the skill (see below) so in those spots you don’t have to keep going: when she gets the skill or even part of it, throw the reward to really build up the skill. That is more important than trying to run the complete sequence.
Looking at the sections of the course:
Good opening on each run! The earlier timing of the FC on 3 at 1:14 looked super good!>>She knocked the bar on jump #3 a few times. I felt like I started my front cross early enough to show her we were turning, but I guess she disagreed.>>
I think the timing of starting the FC on those was good – the bar down on 3 on runs 3 and 4 looked to be more about exit line connection being unclear so she was trying to figure out which side to be on. On the successful reps, you were finishing the FC and looking back at her (1:14 is a great example). On the bar down reps, like at 2:27, your shoulders are closed forward as you complete the turn so she was probably struggling to process which side of you to be on AND the jumping mechanics.
She is a dog that really relies on connection as part of the cue, so the more you can step connected, the better she can jump and read lines.
She read the 4-5-6 line really well! You can add a little decel into 5 to get an even tighter turn. It was weird that she came out of the 4 tunnel at 4 at 1:18ish, maybe she saw your change of motion? But it is not usual for her so we can ignore it 🙂
Looking at the layering sections:
I think she doesn’t fully “own” the skill of driving past a tunnel to find a jump. This was hard at 7 and also later in the course at 15-16-17. You can totally break this down and throw tons of rewards out onto the line!She got it at :21 and 1:48 when you ran in, but really had questions about finding the line independently.
Working the layering is great and exactly what she needs to learn to go past the tunnel… use placement of reinforcement to get the understanding. Rather than continue on the line which eventually curls back to you and then reward near you (like at 1:07), you can throw the reward long and far (landing side of the first layering jump) to help build value and understanding for getting out on that line.
She started to go at 1:28 but then came off the line when you turned your shoulders. Good job getting the reward out there at 1:34 even though she didn’t take the jump.
She went to the other side of the tunnel at 2:14 and that is also rewardable out on the line, even though she did not make it all the way out to the jumps
She did go out and take the jumps at 3:01! Yay! That is also a spot to throw the reward… building the skill is more important than completing the sequence. And the more you build the skill with the reward placement, the better she will be able to nail it on the first run.
>>Would our “conversation” at 2:35 be an acceptable TTFJ moment? >>
No 🙂 For two reasons:
She had already had a lot of failure/questions in that spot, indicating she didn’t understand the skill. She had been most successful getting that 7 jumping when you stepped in past the tunnel.
Also the cue was very closed forward with a high arm, and your position was not past the entry of the tunnel… so your shoulders were pointing at the tunnel more than anything else. Without knowing the course or hearing the verbals, it does look like a tunnel cue. You can see a screenshot here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e33cf3hgRgIqS5OzRa0Wu_mvra61IaR7kYpIerjFz1I/edit?usp=sharingSo she had to stop, fully look at you, and then was able to figure it out but that doesn’t mean she was wrong in the first place 🙂
When she did go get it… reward that with a thrown reward rather than carry on. Remember to isolate the skills she might not fully understand so you can build them up.
She had a couple of other questions there and there, like finding the 11 tunnel when your connection was not clear (:30 and 1:58) but she was great when you maintain connection all the way through like t 2:48! Nice !
You got a little too far ahead in a couple of spots so got a bar down due to her taking off too early (like at :44 and 1:51) but you made really nice adjustments and stuck a little closer with more connection, so she recovered really well and overall jumped the lines well too!
I think the push to the backside then the blind on the jump before the weaves at 2:04 and 2:52 looked great! The blind to the threadle is an option, so definitely work on it in the hot topics so you can hash out the line to show her (I think you were on her line there so she never saw a threadle as an option).
Connection got a little soft at the end (3:06, you turned ahead too soon so it did indeed look like a blind) and right at the end at 3:18 after the last tunnel. That is probably handler fatigue (there is a LOT of running on these courses!) so keep working that big connection all the wya to the end. It is probably the most important element of handling to her, right up there with motion and sometimes more important than motion.
Nice work here!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>With the timing one, no video, Paul was running errands, but we breezed through!
Super!!!!
>>She totally remembered yesterday’s training, and adding more verbals, consistently, helped.>>
Yay! I have found whippets to be spectacular with retention from previous sessions AND latent learning to add next steps. They are truly amazing!
The wrap sessions looked great! So nice!!!! You had lovely connection and verbals throughout. She is finding her lines like a rockstar and getting even more independent so you have a little more distance here too, I love it! So fun!
I think your timing was strong here and I only have one suggestion:
When approaching the wrap jump, you don’t need to say ‘go jump’ and then the wrap verbal. When you do that, she process the ‘go jump’ and jumps straight (correctly) and then doesn’t start the turn til after landing. You can see the wraps, especially on the left turn wrap video where she was looking at the line to the tunnel based on the ‘go jump’ info. Good girl!
Since the wrap verbal is a turn cue and also it indicates commitment to the jump, you can use it instead of the go jump verbal. As she is landing from the previous jump, you can be decelerating into the turn and just saying the Choo Choo cue 🙂 She should commit to the jump and also set up the tight turn before takeoff.
Fantastic job here! Hope you are having a fun 4th of July!
Tracy
Hi there!!
The one step sends are looking good! A c couple of ideas for you to expand her commitment even more:
You can add use your wrap verbal as part of the send, saying it directly to her as you send her (the connection helps support commitment too).
And since we are really wanting to emphasize commitment, you can add in throwing rewards to the wrap exit sometimes too, so she gets ‘paid’ for committing independently on your position.
She only had on question on the sending, at :48 – you were a little disconnected by looking forward, so she curled into you. When you look at her more directly on the send like you did at 1:13, she easily finds the line. Yay! That was great connection 🙂
I think she is ready for more distance between the wings and tunnel!
The plank work looks good! She might have been offering the 2o2o because the dishes were close, so you can move them further away to have her moving more across the board.
She seems super confident here too, so 2 thing to add:
With the dishes straight off the end (but further away), you can elevate the board a bit but putting blocks or something under it so she has to get on a taller board. That challenges her balance and footwork a bit.
You can also change the position of the bowls by moving them towards you a little to add some more angles, so she is working on finding the entry from a curve. That will definitely b harder but also great for balance and footwork.
She had a little trouble turning around, so you can use a food lure and move your hand very slowly til she realizes what you are asking…. Then it can all speed up a bit but speed is not the priority.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing really well with finding the lines here! The clearest cue for the send to the pinwheel jump is when you are sending to the takeoff spot, not to the jump. it is a subtle difference that relies on connection back to her as she is catching up and passing you.
When you send to the jump, you are turned forward more and connection is not as clear, so she has questions (like at :17)
When sending to the takeoff spot, she sees connection better and commits better, like at :23. You can see here (and the other successful reps like it) that your arm is back longer and there is more direct connection – which ends up pointing your shoulders to the takeoff spot and that is exactly where she goes 🙂 Yay! So as she lands from the previous jump, remember to have the arm-back, big connection as you step and send to the take off spot.
I think she is ready for you to add the tunnel and start tackling the sequences! Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
Bummer about the messed up video but this one looked good!
He is doing well with the push to the backside! It will be even easier if you don’t go as close to the jump before the backside – you can be on basically the same running line as the layering, but the verbals are different 🙂
On rep 2 you had so much momentum to the jump before the backside at :29 that he almost went past the backside jump because of the acceleration and the line you were showing. What a good boy to find it!I would have rewarded it heavily because he kinda saved your bum. He was confused about why he didn’t get rewarded (he did it right, so if you didn’t see it reward anyway then go look at the video to see what he did) You were asking what he did and he was like “I did the backside, mom!” LOL!!!
The last rep looked better – at :53 you were further from the jump before the backside and closer to the entry wing, so he saw the turn cues sooner. You can work your running line to be no further across the backside jump than the center of the bar, and if he is happy with that then you can work it so you can be running down towards the exit wing of the backside jump.
>>really pleased that the “off course tunnel” wasn’t ever an issue >>
Yes! He was super good about not looking at the tunnel! Yay!
Nice work here! I am looking forward to the threadle sequence!
Tracy
