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Good morning!
I think he did really well with these distances! His bounces looked powerful and when he needed to add a stride, he did really well with that too!My only suggestion is to have the reward on the ground rather than thrown from your hand: that will keep him looking low and forward (he was starting to lift his head between jumps 2 and 3 looking up at you). So if you have the toy attached to a long one or long toy then use it as a moving target, you can help him keep his head low and get even more power.
For the distances between jumps 2 and 3: you can start to increase them more. For example, the next session can be something along the lines of 8 feet then 12 feet then 16 feet then 12 feet then 8 feet between jumps 2 and 3. Let me know how he does with that!
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Really nice session here! This game is challenging and you & Beat had lovely runs!!
>I think this is just another example of me having too many words/cues and not keeping them straight. I even walked/talked it out before I ran it and still didn’t realize it was the wrong word.>
Two thoughts for you here:
For your walk through, the best way to be able to get the verbals during the run, is to run during the walk through (nerd moment: state-dependent memory). If you are in one state (walking) during encoding and a different state (running) during recall, it is harder to recall the verbals. But if you are in the same state (running and running), it is soooo much easier. In the learning stages of verbals (human learning LOL) I always have people run their walk throughs and it makes things a lot easier.
>she skips the jump wing and goes for the tunnel on one start line and one other time on that jump in sequence>
Both of those were conflicting indicators (handling versus verbal) where the handling info overrode the verbal (and the verbal was not salient enough to really help). They were at:
:29 where was in a stay, there was not enough support from the physical cues there (conflicting indicator – verbal said one thing, body said something else) – you said one quiet verbal cue then immediately turned your body away without any physical indication to the wing. The physical indication said “tunnel” and that overrode the one quiet verbal.
You have now entered the stage of her training where all of this is rewardable because there is a 99% chance she was correct. So better to just reward her as you set up for the next rep, than to withhold reward which can be frustrating – you can see it on her face where she was like “but I did it right…” The cookie for the sit came about 9 seconds later so it did not correlate to the handling.
Compare to :44 where you cued her to look at the wing before the release then stepped to it, so she went to it beautifully.
The other spot was at 1:11 – she didn’t go to the wing at 1:11 because your physical cues/connection turned away from the line: you turned towards the tunnel. Yes, there was a high arm out in the direction of the wing but all of the other cues said tunnel. There was only one hup cue versus a ton of physical input.
Compare to the very last rep where your physical cue was sooo much clearer and connected to her. It is a hard line and she got it because you cued it clearly.
So the verbals for now do need to be supported with physical cues, it takes a long long time for verbals to be so independent that our bodies can say something different and they cue off of one verbal cue.
There was a whole lot of really nice work here:
Nice timing of starting the cues before she went into the tunnel, that really helped you get the tandems after the tunnel. Big Click/Treat for you!!!
The sequence :57 – 1:11 was GREAT! Same with the sequence 1:20-1:27, look at the distance you are getting on the tandem! That is going to help with the threadle wraps!
Those moments all had verbals and physical cues working together, and looked fantastic!
>And one other tendency I’ve noticed coming on with her that I’ve noticed with many of my previous dogs (so clearly it’s something that I’m training into them) was her looking around on the start and winding up fixated on that bird outside the fence on that last rep. It seems to be a thing that I ask dog to sit, start to lead out and they just start looking around until I come to a stop and then they pay attention again (or get distracted by BIRD!) Something I’m doing to cause this?>
Interesting observation! Yes, we all train the same things into our dogs LOL!! My guess is that you can be more unpredictable on the start line & lead outs. You might be too predictable, meaning the rhythm is always the same: lead out, take a while, release. So if you vary that, they will watch you more. Sometimes release immediately! Sometimes run to the lead out position. Sometimes throw a reward back as lead out. Change the timing of the release and reward, plus change the connection (sometimes looking at them, or being goofy as you walk away or saying “ready ready”). The surprise factor will be very motivating to all of them, to help them watch you the whole time 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
Really excellent session here!!! He did GREAT with the toy on the ground directly on his line – only one oops moment but otherwise he seemed to ignore it really well. He is making huge strides to being able to work with a clear head/optimized arousal with a toy and a lot of motion. Yay!!Using the toy + food might be the sweet spot for him: the food allows for some precision in the training and lots of quick reps, and using the toy keeps things exciting for him and motivating. He did great here with both.
He read the handling really well, and the FCs on the wing were nice and tight even with you moving. One suggestion on the serps which will make them harder is to stay closer to the jump. You can be about one arm’s length away from the serp jump, which will make I a little more challenging for him to drive in and not run parallel to you. Since he might find it harder (especially with the toy on the. ground) you can dial back your motion and walk the first couple of times and see how he does. If he is fine with it, you can add back your running 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
The jump grid is looking good! She was a little too far from jump 1 on the first rep, so she foot-tapped before it and that caused her to be a little less powerful and a little short over jumps 2 and 3. She was in a better spot on the other reps, and was very balanced on those. Nice! You can now add the accordion grid 🙂>Had a great training session for get out. Never hit record. The errors are the wraps. She seems to have lost the drive to do them. My guess is the grip. She was wrapped when I did them so I may rebuild them this week but she did completely understand the actual cues >
Bummer about the video blooper but I am glad she did really well with the game! Yay!
If she is trotting to the wraps, then yes she is probably just being careful which we don’t want her to have to be concerned with. You can get her outside on grass so she can move fast! The weather is good so it is a good time of year for working outside.
For wrapping inside, you can include her big pad (not just stopper pads/hocks) in the wrapping, so she has extra grip for the wraps.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Yes the barking seems to only be for food. He seems to get frustrated working for food vs the toy. Not sure why?>
It is entirely possible that food is not a reinforcement in his view, it is more of an obligation for him (he will take it because it is part of the work). The toy and the action are the real rewards. So you can use food, but follow the food with the toy as the true reward (which will also build food into more of a reward, hopefully :))
>Another issue we have is when there’s a toy on the ground he seems to always have at least half his brain on the toy and is just guessing until I release him to it. I’m not really sure how to get him to think in those situations.>
I think sessions like this will solve that issue! It was a really strong session – he made no mistakes on the serp, even with you running. When you did the FC on the wing, he had a couple of errors – I think he was watching motion and not the connection on the first oopsie. You did a great job of maintain criteria and also slowing down to help him out.
You can add more and more motion to the FC so he learns to look for connection changes and not just follow motion when the toy is on the ground 🙂 This will help him understand that he should not just find a line to the toy 🙂 And, you can change the position of the toy on the serp line bit by bit: right now it is a bit more on the landing side of the jump, so you can inch it around to the takeoff side to eventually tempt him to run past the jump (but I bet he takes the jump :))
Great job!
TracyHi!
>I may use “focus”, but I don’t use a word for Dellin and that seems to work too, so I may play around with that.>
Totally up to you! I think both can work – adding the verbal might help as these types of openings get more complex in terms of handler position being further from the first jump.
> I did a few reps in the basement this morning with me holding the toy, waiting for him to focus and then throwing it (no video) – it went ok, except he was a bit sticky (probably because I was holding the toy) – he did not always break immediately upon being cued and having the toy thrown. I’ll get some video.>
You can try it with food, which is less of a big visual than the toy would be. Or, you can say ‘break’ then take a step to the jump to affirm the release, as long as the release and the step are not simultaneously.
>When does this class officially end? I was having trouble finding that date when I need to stop posting >
June 3rd! It was in the last email, but all the way down at the bottom so easy to miss, probably.
T
Good morning!
>Looks like it’s about an hour and a half from me so not too far! That would be amazing!!! >
Fantastic! Just send a note here or on Facebook before you feel like coming and I will send the address and the codes to the locks on the gates.
Serps with the toy on the ground are definitely hard! It is basically a proofing game – can the dog find the jump even with the toy right on their line. You did a great job helping him out by dialing back your motion a bit at first a well as having the toy in your hand to help him out.
As you add back more motion, you can angle the jump a bit so a he exits the wing wrap, he can see the bar pretty easily. Your line of motion and handling would be the same as it was here, but finding the jump would be a little easier for him as you run.
Interestingly: no barking here! On the video you posted on 5/20, he was barking on the send to the wing. Was the main difference that there was a toy in play in the session you posted yesterday and food on the other session? He definitely works beautifully for his toy!
You can also add the balance reps of a front cross on the wing wrap, and move to the advanced level of adding a bit of backside challenge! When you do the backside, you can put the wigs on the jump, and use a cone or something as the starting wrap. The wings help the dogs find backsides better.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
Technically the class is over, but I checked back in to make sure I didn’t miss anything 🙂
>thanks due to that new knee – one of the best things I’ve done for myself. >
That is awesome!!
>That said, he’s clearly faster than I am when he’s on his game. I do run into some long straight lines in his novice courses where he can easily get ahead of me – does not help me with maintaining connection. >
Yes, novice courses are pretty hard with those big long lines. You can approach it like countermotion: send him one way while you run the other way. That can help set up the ‘chase the dad’ that he loves to do.
>My option in this setup would have been a longer lead out to give him more support for the turn in front of the RC, but I could see he had the dog that just ran in front of us on his mind. >
Right! And the other thing that made this course hard was the placement of the ring crew… basically, the line drove him right into the ring crew person after the jump and then after the tunnel. Bleh! It was a good decision to get him off the line fast and he was GREAT about resisting temptation to investigate the other dog. Good boy Coal!!!
I think the last frontier in his training is the combo of ignore the ring crew while there is no food in the ring at all. He can ignore the ring crew. And he can run without food in the ring. You’ve developed both pieces really well! Now… we have to keep putting them together.
Even in class, you can work on the short in and out where he runs a short course, just a few obstacles, out to get a quick reward, then back in for more. He has a ton of really strong skills so I am not concerned about him needing to run big courses or do big handling… it is really about the ignore ring crew + no food in the ring combo. Maybe one of your turns in class can be exclusively devoted to this, where there are ring crew people on the end the line he is on, and no one in the ring has food (we fade it off the instructor now too).
And because that is hard, the other turn or two in class can be devoted to having food in the ring and working on obstacle skills and handling skills.
Keep me posted on his adventures! I might not check in here regularly so feel free to reach out on Facebook!
Have fun 🙂
TracyHi!
He did really well! Working for the toy was super easy. He did look forward when the toy was not there but the marker/release confused him. Search did not mean move forward to look for a cookie 🙂 So, no problem: you can use your jump release (I think it is break, based on what you did with the toy) and then throw the cookie. You can mark the cookie toss with search if that means to go get the cookie but the break release means to move forward and take the jump. Also, you can use a toy for this too: hold the cue, indicate the forward focus, then release, then throw the toy.
You can add in changing your position to be more lateral!
> I also realize that I need a different word – “look look” is my threadle wrap cue>
Yes, a different verbal is on tap. What about ‘focus’ or something similar? He seemed to be using your hand point as the cue here, which is fine, maybe you don’t need a verbal at all! Just be as clean as possible so he doesn’t break on the hand cue like he did on the last rep.
Great job here!
TracyOh! You are not that far – try mapping the distance to Fork Union (that is about a mile from me). I have all the good stuff in the agility field (contacts, tunnels, jump, etc etc) so you can totally come use it. And it is all fully fenced so the dogs can have a big runabout too.
T
Good morning!
Blind crosses: these are going well on the wings! She is reading them really well (keep wrapping her feet down to cover the big pads so she can grip – she was trotting or holding her hind end tight to avoid slipping).
She had a couple of commitment questions:
Based on where she was looking at 1:03 when she did not commit to the wing, she needed to see more connection and probably have you not as far ahead.When that happens (no commitment to the wing), you can keep going to the next wing and reward for that wing or tunnel (rather than reward for not taking the wing). Ideally, if she has a question, she looks for the wing and not for you – so we don’t tell her she is wrong but we don’t need to frisbee it (we can keep going and frisbee something else :))
At 1:24 she did take the wing even if it was from the other side of it, so that was a good reward because it was a commitment attempt. The rep at 1:32 was great connection and you were not quite as far ahead so she went to the wing nicely! It would be interesting to see if the other side is easier (committing on your right side so she turns left) – maybe the extra connection she needed is related to a side preference?
The extra support to the wing made the blind a little late but you had good connection and decel into it, so the turns were still really good! When you added the FC on the next wing and the race track she did well too! Be sure to be really connected on the race track too – she curled in on the wing at 2:48, partially because she had seen a lot of turn on that wing and partially because your connection and arm were moving forward a bit, which changes connection.
With the ladder grid – you’ll get a better picture of her mechanics by videotaping from the side instead of behind. It was hard to see her front feet here and full mechanic but overall it was looking good!
She seems comfortable with the distance but the stationary food target was causing her to dial back her power. I am glad you went to the moving target pretty quickly – that changed the picture in a good way! More powerful for sure and she had to sort out her mechanics at speed, which will help the high speed jumping she will do on courses. So definitely keep that moving target!
There was a little confusion about the release at 2:15 but I think her leaving the stay was legit: your rhythm of using the moving target is putting it down, then taking a step or two with it moving, then releasing her. So at 2:15, you had put it down, got it moving and said something… so she released because that is the procedure she is used to. In this case, you said “wait” but all of the context cues pointed to a release so be very careful about using a non-release word where a release word always goes (telling she is wrong will get confusing/frustrating).
So you can put it down and start it moving… and ignore if she twitches. Twitching is not breaking, so don’t change anything. If she breaks, yes, you can stop. But if she holds herself in the stay even when she is more excited? Awesome!! Release as you normally would.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Welcome back to Virginia! Remind me where in VA you are – I am in central VA (kinda of near Charlottesville) and you are welcome to come use the agility field any time you want!
He did well with the serp game, good boy!!! You can add more of your motion (jogging through it) and as you add more of your speed, you can rotate more at the waist to show more ‘serp’ position with the upper body – center of your chest will be facing back to him with your serp arm extended. Don’t change your feet or line of motion, because that was great!
When you add more speed, running past the jump might be something that happens so you can angle the jump a little to help him out so you can add more running.
>I don’t know why I was getting the barking? Except maybe he didn’t know the “around” word very well. My left and right are wrap/tight turn words so I didn’t want to use them in this context.>
I agree that the around word was the one to use, not your left/right wrap verbals. Maybe he was barking a bit because of excitement and countermotion? Or maybe because it was a food-based session and he was releasing some arousal by barking? You can tug between the food rewards and see how it goes (you might have already been doing this). But he was still working really well even with the barking, so it is interesting but not worrisome (unless there was other stuff you were seeing that is not on the video, but his work looked good!)
Great job!!
TracyHi!
I am so glad she did well at the seminar! I am not surprised, though, she is a good girl 🙂 You can bring a mat or something to sit on if the surface is giving her the butt the ick LOL She did perfectly with the sit on the grass here!
And I am glad the instructor also recognized how well she is doing. So fun!
Looking at the video:
> I think I’m too slow with the sharp blind?>
The first rep of the blind needed more movement towards the wing, but then rest were much better in terms of motion to get commitment and timing. When she was a little wide or didn’t commit, it was because there was not quite enough connection. You can reward her in those moments – like at 1:34 when she didn’t take a wing because she did not see enough connection and was not sure where to be. compare to 1:44 with much clearer connection so she went to the wing nicely 🙂
You can also start the timing of the blind a little sooner: for now, show big connection and when she is about a meter away from arriving at the jump, start the blind.
>? And the racetrack foundered on the middle jump (out of frame). I think she was getting tired or the connection was not strong enough.>
You can see one moment of it, and that was a connection connection blooper – she actually read it like a threadle wrap (fancy!) at 1:59. you can totally reward that with the toy. You had much better connection there on the last rep so she had no questions.
For the stuff that was just out of frame, it was probably not enough connection. One thing you can do is try to run these sequences with connection only! No verbals, no arms… just run and connect 🙂 That will be hard but will definitely tell you if you are connecting clearly enough.
Great job!
TracyHi!
The set point is looking really good, what is the distance? You can lead out more so the toy is even further away when you release him (so he can add even more power)You can use this now to do the other grids (ladder and accordion). His jumping is progressing nicely!
He was an absolute pro in the serp/threadle/tunnel proofing! He had one little blooper where he took the front of the jump instead of the threadle side at 1:25, but that looked to be caused by 2 things:
– you released almost immediately after arriving in position/putting your arm out
– as you stopped in position, watch his head: he offered forward focus on the jump and then you released him, which he likely took as confirmation that yes, you wanted the jump he looked at.Compare to the last rep (and the previous reps) where there was a little more time between you showing the position and the release, and he was looking in the right spot before you released him. Yay!
He seems ready for the advanced levels, where you are adding more of your motion into the serp and threadle, as well as changing his angle relative to the jump. When you are adding more motion, be sure to have your arm in the serp or threadle position as you are moving the whole time, to help him process the cues sooner.
Great job here!
TracyHi! This went really well, great job! You made it look easier than it actually is… usually people have to really wrestle with the Starfish LOL!!
You can keep playing with it to get your timing on the tight turns earlier and add in decel. She was going a little wide on the tight turns only because the decel and turn cues were happening after getting to the wing, so she didn’t know she was supposed to adjust before the wing. You can aim for decelerating into the turn as she is exiting the tunnel (for turns happening on the wing after the tunnel) or as she exits the previous wing (for turns happening on a wing after a different wing).
>The only part that stumped us was going from the top wing back to the tunnel in the last 3 reps. At first I sent Ellie completely around the tunnel.>
Yes, I think we just chalk it up to young dog inexperience – that is a challenging tunnel entry that requires her to really collect to find the entry. On the first run where she went past it, she didn’t realize that big collection was needed til it was too late. On the next run, she was ready for the collection but you turned too much, which pulled her off. You had just the right amount of helping on the next rep and she found it nicely. I am betting she will find it more easily with less help now that she has seen it and realizes that such a weird tunnel entry does exist 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
