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Hi!
I am super glad you included the videos 🙂 Seeing it was great!!
Yes, you had amazing treats, I am hungry thinking about it. I would run through a tunnel for smoked cheese! And my Papillons would sell a kidney to come live with you. But the whippety dogs would not, because they are more like Vesper:
You also have a puppy who is more toy-motivated than food-motivated 🙂 And I think your history as a trainer has been more about using food, which is why it felt so weird, perhaps, to have a dog say “no thanks!” to incredible treats.
Flip the script for a moment: if she was toy-motivated at home, but couldn’t tug in the new place (wandered away a bit when the toy was presented and could only eat), you would probably be pretty comfy with only using the food and have called the sessions a big win.
With her being so toy-motivated here, I think the conflicted feeling was more that it was out-of-comfort zone to use the toy so extensively and not use food.
Here are some thoughts on what I see (spoiler alert: she did AMAZINGLY well!!!)
>>I made some pork chops and chicken thighs and also brought some smoked cheese that she likes. >>>
YUMMY!!!! And it was good that you did that. But she is a toy dog at the moment (makes sense, being a whippet :))
>>She ate when she got out of the car. She was able to eat in the ringside space, but she wasn’t really into the food. She ate but I don’t think the food was really a strong reinforcer in that moment. >>
Good that she ate! And good that she let you know that it was not a strong motivator in that environment. I am confident that it will be eventually but it is not as strong as a toy yet.
>>I also brought 2 udder toys to try doing back and forth with toys but she didn’t want to play. She seemed excited and maybe a little anxious. >>
The udder toys probably did not have as much chase opportunity in tight quarters, so not as much interaction with them. And yes, she probably was excited and anxious being in a new place with new people and dogs.
>>Definitely wanted to say hi to the people and dogs. And to sniff around.>>
All good!
>>On our first turn, she really wasn’t interested in eating, either tossed food or from my hand. So then I pulled out her toy. I’m not sure if that was the right choice or not. >>
It was 1000000% the right choice (and seems like the instructor was very supportive about it!). Vesper really lit up and starting having a grand time! She was completely engaged, fast, happy, motivated.
>>So it did feel kinda yucky to me to sort of cajole her into engaging and working with me instead of letting her tell me she’s ready.>
You were not cajoling at all, she could have opted out at any time (she was off leash and free to do as she pleased). You had to find the right motivator, and you did. Note how at 3:04 she was so engaged that while you were talking to the instructor, she just sat and listened. Again, nothing cajoled about that LOL!! And then later on she was so happy and relaxed that she did her swiffering by being dragged by the toy… that is a sign of good things, not a dog that has been pressured into work.
She told you she was ready the instant she started chasing the toy 🙂 It is a different way of a dog telling you this than what you might be used to, but she definitely told you this 🙂
>>She liked chasing the toy around. We did two restrained recalls to the toy and two cone wraps.>>
She sure did! And her training session looked great, especially factoring in ALL the new things happening. I was so happy to see it!
>>On our second turn, she was eating outside the ring, doing back and forth, but again I feel like she was not really into the food. >>
Food is interesting in that context but the environment is harder, so she is not insane for it yet there. No worries.
>>Inside the ring, she again didn’t want to eat. She really wanted to sniff around. We did a couple tunnels with her toy and ended with some personal play.>>
At the start of the video, note how she was pulling into the ring, towards the instructor: “yeah! This lady was FUN last time! We are doing a thing!”
She as totally engaged, not sniffing, her tail was wagging, play bowed, stuck with you when the leash came off. Then you offered food. Since food is not a big motivator in that context right now, she started exploring other options. You kept offering food, and she kept saying “no thanks.” You got the toy out… game on! She was fully engaged after that even in the in-between moments without the toy in her mouth.
I don’t think she loved the play without the toy… yes, she was jumping up at you but then she moved away. The jumping up might have been frustration behavior.So it is all very insightful and in the mode of TL;DR –
Right now, toys are the motivator to use in harder environments. Physical engagement without the toy? I am not so sure. Food? Maybe in certain environments but not all.And this is all good and totally normal (and relatively identical to how my Contraband was at her age). The food motivation will continue to build up as she gets more exposure to different environments.
>>But I’ve always let my dogs sniff and then waited for them to engage with me to start the fun in settings where thats possible like rentals or class. >>
It is fine in some contexts sure…. But also starting with the best motivator can get the fun started right away! I think if she had been very engaged with the food here, you would not have the same questions 🙂 Many dogs prefer food motivators over toys as motivators, so that is why a lot of these games are built using food. But she prefers chasing toys, so use the chase toys in the contexts you would use food! The sniffing you saw here was not necessarily “OMG this is so stressful” but more of a communication of “this is not the motivator, mom” LOL!
>>Rather than trying to get them to engage even if their brain isn’t ready. >>
I don’t look at it like that – it is more of a conversation with the pup: you want food? No? Ok, cool, how about the toy? YEAH! Let’s chase the toy.
If she was unable to engage in anything, then sniffing everything might be the only available option but also it is a sign of bigger issues that can be explored before the pup is asked to enter that environment again. (She does not have the bigger issues, based on what she did here. She just prefers toys at the moment).
>>At least with my past dogs, I’ve found that over time they don’t need to sniff anymore in these spaces because they’ve assessed that it’s safe and processes the info enough times>>
Yes, but also there might be underlying anxiety issues that needed to be addressed. Flip the script with Vesper here: if you had asked her to play with the toy and she said “no thanks” but she could work for the treats, I think you would be a lot more comfy with how it went! She was able to enter the environment and do things with confidence, with the correct motivator. At some point, food will match or even exceed toys as a motivator but we have plenty of time for that.
>> I brought her in ringside one more time to see if she would be more into the treats, but she wasn’t. She was more interested in watching people and the dog in the ring, though we were as far away from the ring as we could get.>>
Did you ask her to chase a long toy that you were swinging around? Flip the script!
>>I’ve never had a dog that takes toys over food, so maybe that’s throwing me off. >>
This! I think that is totally it! It is SO WEIRD at first! I am here to be your support LOL!! My BorderWhippet, Contraband was totally like that. I ended up teaching all of his pattern games with toys (frisbees) because they were the highest value motivator at the time. He LOVED it. And now food is pretty powerful too! It all builds up over time. And it is all good!
>>But I would like her to be able to eat in the ring. >>
It will come!
>>Though I was really pleased she was able to engage with the toy!>>
OMG yessss she was great! Go back and watch her body language with the toy – happy pup!!!
>>If I remember, the first resilience exercise was to let the dog walk around a space and just check it out, sniff, etc without using treats or toys.>>
Yes, world watching 🙂 But the pups are not expected to ‘work’ in that environment, plus we don’t have a handle on their motivators yet.
>> That’s my typical approach in new spaces. Can you explain a bit more why you’d still suggest immediate pattern games in a new space rather than letting them explore and take it in? >>
I think the MYOB webinar has more of the science behind it – the pattern games (food or toys, either are fine) can very quickly shift attentional states from divided (“OMG there is so much in this environment!!!”) to selective (“hi mom, let’s do a thing!!”). This accomplishes what sniffing/exploring can, and in a fraction of the time, by giving the dogs a recognizable framework.
This framework also contributes to a positive conditioned emotional response (classical conditioning) and helps regulate arousal levels. It also allows the pups to tell us what they are feeling about the environment in ways that world watching cannot.
Plus, there are elements of state-dependent memory that come into play, because we can help get the pup into a higher arousal state for encoding and retrieval. And, context-dependent memory which is basically the pups learning that the agility ring/facility is a place for chasing the toy, playing with da momma, doing the thing – and not a place for long sniffing. State- and context-dependent memory are sooooo critical.>>Where would you do that sort of walk like you did with baby Ramen in the video?>>
I really only do it in training facilities once or twice with baby puppies, then it turns into decompression walks. When the pups are happy in the world and I have sorted out their motivators, I bring them into training facilities with pattern games using whatever the best motivator is at the moment (food or toys, either are fine with me).
>>Do you think I should continue bringing her into this kind of setting? >>
Yes, using the toy as the motivator when you enter the ring and even outside the ring. You can also build the value of food in that environment with a bit of a toy-eat a piece of pork – toy pattern. I think she had fun! And especially in places where the instructor seems so supportive. Who was the instructor?
>>Work on pattern games in other interesting (but not quite as interesting as agility) environments?>>
Yes, but also working on eating as a behavior (toy – barrel wrap – eat a treat – toy, for example) so you can build up food as a tool in the toolbox.
Similar story for you: my 15 month old whippet did a 4 day seminar last weekend. 4 days is a lot for a bebe dog, but it was only 2 turns a day and I knew the instructors would be fabulous AND had whippet experience, so I did it 🙂 He ate his treats outside the ring. He ‘worked’ for them in the ring… but he WORKED for his toy in the ring about 10000 better. The toy was more motivating and since we wanted him to have a good time and build behaviors, we used the toy a lot more 🙂
And if food had been more motivating? I would have used food more. All good! Seems like Vesper is similar (shocker, racing line whippets loving their toys to chase hahahaha)
So overall – I think she did great! And I know it is uncomfortable to use a toy more than food, but that is her current motivator/reinforcement in that environment, so go with it and have fun!
Let me know what you think! Happy holidays!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Can your puppy offer behavior on a septic tank lid?>>
I feel like there should be a video here LOL!!! My puppy pooped next to the septic lid today, so I was pretty proud of that LOL!!!!
T
Good morning!
Strike a pose is looking great! You can definitely be closer to the jump so she makes the turn before arriving at the bar (and not on the landing side). You will want to be close enough to the jump that you can touch the wing with a relaxed arm and your elbow is still bent. It will be easiest to get into that position and then throw the start cookie – otherwise you have to hurry back to get to position and you won’t always be there in time for her to see the cue.
When rewarding, keep your serp arm back so you don’t ‘close’ your shoulders (your shoulders will be staying open to face the jump as you run through a serp). Because she is small, it is hard to deliver the food from you hand without moving your shoulder, so you can have an empty food bowl on the ground and then you can plop the cookie into it. Eventually the Manners Minder can be the reward target or a toy on the ground 🙂
The stays look great, easy peasy!! I want to start fading the big Cato plank now so she has a stay on the flat too. Do you have a smaller, low platform of some kind? Or, you can take a towel and fold it up so it is maybe half the size of the Cato plank. You would repeat the process on the new platform or towel, making the stay a little easier, as we progress towards fading out the plank/platform entirely. She is definitely ready for us to slowly fade it out – check out her stay at 1:39!!
Great job with your verbals on the barrels, and also the strike marker!! Her barrel games looked great, including the rotated advanced level at the end. Yay!!
You can repeat your verbal directionals as you are handling: wrapwrapwrap and turnturnturnturn because that will be easier for her to process while running. And you can also start saying them as you start moving: turn turn turn (rather than ready go).
She did had a question at 1:25 when you said “go wrap” and looked ahead of her (she looked up at you when you looked ahead). More connection will help with that – saying the ‘wrap’ cue directly to her like you did at 1:16. And I think she loses your eyes sometimes when your hair comes forward, so you probably need to tie your hair back so she can see the connection.
The toy was flapping a bit too on that rep, but I don’t think it was the toy causing the question – the toy was visible on the other reps too, but your connection was really strong so she had no questions.
Great job here!!! Hope you are having a great holiday!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>She was way stickier than usual for whatever reason. >>
Terrific! Could be that the ‘out’ was being associated with having to work again (which is a leading contributor to toy-out-stickyness :)) or could be that she is entering adolescence and physiological arousal shifts make the out harder, or could be anything LOL!! But practicing extra outs-for-treats was 10000% correct to do.
>>I’ll look at the advanced rocking horse now and try it with her after work:)>>
Perfect! And have a great Christmas!
Tracy
This is a great update too! It is really unusual that a puppy can go to new places and play games/produce behaviors the same as she can at home… unusual in a GREAT way. I am really excited to hear it! Is she able to play with toys? Eat treats?
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
So you were using the Christmas tree as the weirdness gauntlet? Brilliant! Too bad there is no video but it is GREAT that she investigated it and went about her day 🙂 That is exactly what we want!! And hopefully she is getting great Christmas presents!!Tracy
Hi!
Poor Djinn, I hope her belly feels better! And yes, it is very smart to work toy-based sessions til she is feeling back to 100%. And we can tweak most of the games to be toy-based games 🙂
For the backing up – she is definitely showing value for the mat!! The sitting is working well. One suggestion – don’t reward her from your hand 🙂 She is smart enough to back up just far enough so you can deliver the cookie to her mouth (and she won’t offer backing up further, based on the reward placement). So, when she backs up, either toss or place the cookie between her front feet and onto the mat. You might have to lean forward more, but that should help her back up even more because it becomes more about the destination (the mat) and less about watching the cookie hand 🙂
Tug practice – ah, sooooo much better for you both!!! She is getting a better grip on it, and your hands are safe! You can tie two toys together so you can get the same play without bending over as much. I recommend flyball toys, which are long and exciting 🙂
>>She still likes to pounce/chase/pin more than she does a full on tug but she obviously loves the toy>>
It is fun to see her play style!!! There is a place named TugAwayCuWin (or something like that) which makes super long toys that are enticing and also flatter, so the small dogs can really grab them. I will go find them and grab the link.
For the parallel path – try throwing the toy as the reward 🙂 That will help get her eyes off you and onto the line. You can move the prop to the center of the room (so it is more visually obvious to her) and then as she is heading to it, you can say “get it” and throw the reward for her to chase. I think she will like that!!!
>>Djinn got really worked up after this session and had a hard time calming down again – panting and pacing around her playpen. I gave her a bully stick and she finally settled down and chewed. My takeaway is have something ready for her to chew after a session especially if she seems amped up>>
Great job with the bully stick! Pups usually need some type of decompression after a high arousal training session, so the bully stick is a great choice. When her tummy is better, you can also use a treat scatter in the grass or a snuffle mat. Another option that is better for her tummy is to take her on a sniffy walk in the grass, or let her run around like a nut in the yard. All of those can provide really nice decompression when the she is amped up.
Great job here! Happy holidays!
TracyHi!
I have heard that rabbit poop is delicious! You need to borrow a whippet to chase off the rabbits LOL!
He was tugging really well at the start here! And he committed really well – the more patient you were, the better he committed 🙂 The great outdoors is really distracting, so letting him just about finish the entire wrap was what was working best for him. He was better on the right turn than on the left turns so for the left turns you can be really really lose to the barrel to start (your belly button almost touching it). Then, since he was driving to the barrel really well – you can slap the toy on the ground as he gets to the halfway point and let him chase it the rest of the way around.
Another option is to put an empty food bowl out as a visual aid – it on the exit side of the barrel, so he can see it as he is maybe halfway around). You can still use a toy, but the empty food bowl might be super useful for helping him drive all the way around.
His pattern game looked terrific! I think it looked exactly the same as it did indoors, which is GREAT! The cheese worked perfectly, both in terms of it being high value and super visible. You can let him wear the leash the whole time, to help prepare him (and you!) for having to deal with the leash being on when you are in a new place. And definitely take this game to new places, he is ready for that!
Great job here! Happy holidays!
Tracy
Hi!
>>if I’m not paying attention he gets into constantly jumping on me and then humping me – so I’ve been trying to keep his tugs low and focused on the toy>>
He definitely can use bridges, then – in those in-between moments, you can use a bed or cot, or a snuffle mat, or a treat scatter. And also teach him the pattern game from the resilience track, because we add that into a game that teaches an alternate behavior to jumping/humping for those moments when we disconnect or screw up or the dog is frustrated 🙂
Looking at the video – the dog under the Christmas tree is the cutest thing EVER at the beginning!
West’s parallel path game looks fantastic. He is very happy to drive to the jump! At this point, you can replace the click with your ‘get it’ marker, and mark/throw as soon as you see intent to move to the jump. You can also start right next to him so you can mark/reward him for focus forward and driving ahead to the jump!
If you feel like you have enough room, you can add in jogging and then even running. If your weather is decent, you can take this game outside! If you go outside, start with walking because the environment might changes things. But if he is happy to do it, you can add in your motion there too.
>>Transitioning from prop to jump bump – was trying to get the cookie out before the head turn – felt we were making an arch rather than a straight line, is that ok?>>
Yes, totally ok! And using a ‘get it’ rather than a click will help too, because clicks often get them eyeballing us a little. The get it should help him continue to look straight. But the main goal is to have him go find that jump, and he nailed it!
The first rep of focus forward was great (and also so funny that he drove to the snuffle mat LOL!)
2nd rep – yes, look at the dog as you noted but even if something goes wrong, you can totally pretend it was perfect and engage with him (he was great on that rep) so you don’t get tackled 🙂3rd rep & 4th rep – looking at him was great and note how he never had to look at you! Super! Backing away from him was very inviting to get him to bring the toy back.
Decel game – this is going well! You made a great adjustment: the decel was a little late at first so he shot past you. But then on the reps at 2:03 and 2:09, you decelerated much sooner (basically as soon as he started moving towards you) so he was super tight on the pivot. Lovely! The last reps were great too!
>>I meant to do it without food lure but forgot and had food in opposite hand the 1st couple tries>>
No worries, he was responding beautifully with and without the food lure. Good boy!!!
Great job here! Hope you are enjoying the holiday!
Tracy
Here is your Saturday reminder to use your verbals 🙂
The pattern game from the Resilience track is VERY useful for helping her not be a looky loo 🙂
Have fun!!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>A mix of grilled chicken and ham.
YUMMY!!!
>>So do I just say “get it” and toss a treat right away even if she’s not looking at me? >[
Yep! I show the treat and then say get it. You can start it in the parking lot or just outside the door.
>>What do I do if she ignores the treat?>>
Move back to where she *could* eat – parking lot, doorway, etc. Or use 2 toys!
>>Is there something “wrong” with letting her sniff or do you just want to see if she’s able to fall into the pattern more quickly the next time around? Like assessing her comfort level?>>
It isn’t wrong, necessarily, but it is not realistic in the sports world because you will almost never be able to let her sniff all around the ring before asking for engagement. So we don’t want to have that as part of the process because it won’t be accessible all that often. The pattern games are always accessible and they give us insight into what is going on internally, so I like to get those going early on.
>>On Sunday we will go the a facility she’s never been to. >>
Great! Make sure today is a rest day so she can re-fill her resources. It has been a busy week!
>>I usually allow sniffing at first so she can acclimate and process the space before expecting her to get to work. Do you suggest that I try to start the pattern game immediately?>>
Yes to starting with the pattern game. Sniffing around is not a bad thing but as I mentioned – not always realistic to do, so we can teach her to process the environment in the pattern games framework rather than sniffing her way through it. Processing through pattern games will be a useful skill!
>>And yes, she slept for 4 hours after haha!>>
Good!! Sleep is where the magic happens!
Tracy
Hi!
Great job systematically working through the forward, sideways, and backwards sending on both sides! She was great! And nice work with your connection, markers, and wrap verbals. Yay!!!The only thing I’d add to this more reinforcement for the out – she started to take longer to release the toy, possibly because arousal was increasing, or possibly because she was not getting reinforcement. Either way, a cookie for each release will help maintain the speedy outs 🙂
She looks ready for the advanced level of the rocking horses, where you see rotate sooner and basically send her backwards to each barrel. I bet she nails it and you’ll be able to add more distance too!
Great job here!!
Tracy
