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Hi! That is GREAT news about Grady!! So fun!!!
>>I do have question regarding the teeter…both Cassie and Lori are fans of her learning a stopped teeter. Grady has a running teeter, has only been called on it a few times. One time was a fly off when I truly believe he thought it was dog walk.>>
I vote with Cassie and Lori 🙂 The stopped teeters have clearer criteria about exactly where to go and exactly when to leave the board. That clarity makes it easier to learn and easier to reward, so the dogs get faster and happier doing them. And it is easy and fun to train a stop on the end of the board, she will love the extra meatballs 🙂
Tracy
That is fantastic! Sounds like she was a perfect girlie 🙂 I am not surprised, it sounds like things have been coming together really nicely 🙂 Great job with all of the games and keep me posted as she starts doing the grown-up stuff too 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>There is a lot of really good intentioned peer pressure to take advantage of mat time opportunities >>
So true about the peer pressure! I like that they recognize his talent, so now they just need to let him grown up a little 🙂
>>Anyway, we are going to try me running around him in recalls and your suggestions for how I catch him after recalls and are arranging to practice alternating recalls with a more seasoned calmer dog at practice>>
Perfect! Keep me posted!
Looking at the video:
>>1 I don’t know if adding the tire is ok? So we just tried a couple – he did hit his feet on it once so maybe not a good idea?>>
Yes the tire can totally go into the grid! He had a toe nail click probably because he was slowing down to the get to the reward, but other than that he did well! You can raise it a little (to 8 inches) to get more hind end involvement.
>>2 tried accordion grid – he had just upgraded to 5 ft grid 2 sessions ago so I wasn’t sure if he would struggle with the larger spacing but seemed ok – didn’t bounce the 11 ft gap but did bounce the 8 ft gap>>He did really well here! You can switch the jump bar on jump 1 to jump 3, and put the bump from #3 onto 1 – that way if he has an organization oopsie on the first jump, he doesn’t drop the bar. And, you can also add a little more height on jump 3 – that will help with striding too. He didn’t bounce 11 feet because there was no elevation to the bar so he was just running. So add a 6 inch bar to #3 and if he is fine with it… go to 8 inches and if that is fine, go to 10” 🙂 We will start adding more challenge!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
Gotta love the training rings at trials! Was it UKI?
>> You mentioned an A frame training method for littles. I tried the box method for my 25 pounder and it worked fine but really did not work for my 12 pounder. >>
I use a mat target method, but also for the littles I teach them to lightly jump the apex and also to focus forward on the exit. Because littles often have different shoulder structure than, say, Border Collies 🤣 we need to get them looking down more and without lifting their heads. The box can work for that two, but the striding over the apex is critical and so is a target to head to after the box when they exit the a-frame (usually 12 to 15 feet away from it).
Have fun on your trip!!!
TracyHi!
I am glad you are not in a lot of pain anymore!! Yay!!!
Looking at the videos:
Layering foundations looked really strong!
You can throw the toy sooner , as soon as she looks at the jump. If you wait til she gets to the jump, she will be looking at you (nothing else to look at there LOL!)She didn’t have trouble passing the tunnel to layer when you made the entry visible (yay!) but the challenge at :51 was too hard when you were not near the tunnel entry after the jump. Good job breaking it down after that so she can find the entry, but she needed more reps of that to get the full understanding of the turn to the tunnel since you can’t quite sprint up there yet 🙂
The Rear Crosses are coming along! They will be easier when you are back to full running, because that is what was causing any questions: when you tried to get to the RC line after starting with the wing wrap before the tunnel, walking through it made the info too delayed. But when you started with yourself closer (like sending her to the tunnel so you could be showing the RC line), she read them like at :32 and 1:05 to the right.
She is a little better to her right than to her left, so you can place a reward out for the left turns and also add the big pressure on the line like at 2L14 and 2:33. Try not to add big arms because that actually turned her attention toward you – the rear cross diagonal will help her turn away and a placed reward on the left turns will give her a good focal point.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>I took a chair arm rest to the ribs (11/10 would not recommend, makes laughing very hard and our househould is all about laughter).>>
OMG!! I am glad you are both OK!
Looking at the videos:
>>which surprisingly came up in class a week ago and he ran past the jump when I was ahead of him>>
Yes, it is a common young dog behavior: going fast but not always managing the jumps too 🙂
>>but he is surprisingly fas>>
He has gotten faster in recent weeks, and his body shape has changed too – more of a grown up sportswear body. Very fun!!!
I think the session went really well here (only one blooper where he needed one more step to the tunnel). Since the class environment is more arousing and with more room between obstacles (similar to what the trial environment will be) you can use your yard to add more arousal so he is working in the same/similar internal environment. Get him tugging, have him do the tunnel 2 or 3 times in a row, get him wild, then run the sequence. That will really challenge him to find the jump while you run!
And, at home, you can soften the connection up a bit to add challenge – instead of looking directly at him as you run, you can kinda sorta look towards him and a little ahead. That is a style of connection he will find harder to see on course… and when he is more stimulated in class, it is harder to ‘find’ the connection. So a little less connection can prepare him! But at the actual class, give him BIG connection to help him out. We want to prepare him but not set him up to fail 🙂
The lateral lead outs looked great! Yay! The best part is the stay, of course, because that allows you to go anywhere. His commitment looked really strong too 🙂 and he read all of your handling on either side of the 2nd jump really well.
You can change his angle a bit to add more challenge (and also reflect what we are seeing on course nowadays) – rather than facing the jump as he did here (which is correct per the instructions) you can make it more challenging by putting him on a slice facing jump 1 (slicing over it towards jump 2). That has become a VERY popular lead out recently so we might as well show it to him 🙂
>>Thanks for nerding out with me on the neuroscience/dog behavior intersection.>>
Thank YOU!! I love learning more about it. And thank you for the paper and the info on Erin Hecht! I tried to sign my dogs up for stuff at the Canine Cognition Lab at Duke but never heard back from them 😭
>> Its constantly on my mind and I’m compiling relevant research, I’d love to connect about it when something clear and cohesive comes out of it>>
Yes for sure! You bring a different perspective and it is really fascinating!!!
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>they are proving to be super hard for us>>
If stays feel hard to train… it is because they are hard to train 🙂 They are one of the most complex behaviors in agility!
When there is a struggle, I look at the old school things that help us clean up the behavior: timing (of marking the behavior), criteria, reinforcement (rate and placement).
Basically… I think if we change a detail or two on each of these, you will easily have your stay. Things are a little grey in some aspects and you might be lumping a bit too 🙂
Looking at the 2 sit videos:
The plank helps, but there was still not enough success even with the plank. Looking at the 3 things:
– for timing, make it your job to reinforce before he moves. And this means you must live by the 2 failure rule: 2 failures total in the session (there were lots more than that in each video). Each step forward of the front foot where you went back and adjusted him were failures (reinforcement withheld). More on that below
– Criteria – you have defined it but I am not sure he understands it based on the reinforcement. Going back to feed him in position actually dilutes the clarity of the behavior in two ways: trying to feed in position actually promotes foot movement and butt movement as you deliver the food. Also the start and finish of each rep is unclear so he sometimes moves between reinforcement because I don’t think he actually knows the behavior is still in progress. Since criteria is to not move his feet during a sit stay, we will focus on reinforcement to clarify that:
–
– Reinforcement is split into 2 categories for now: rate of reinforcement (2 failure rule, so it was too low here) and placement of reinforcement. Placement is important! We want him to stay ‘over there’ where you left him as you move away, you will need the placement to reflect that. So rather than walk back to him and hand deliver it (which shows the placement of reinforcement as being next to you), you should lead out and use your marker which means it is coming back to you, then throw the reinforcement behind him (that marker is also a release to get the reinforcement).
–
– He doesn’t have to catch the reward, he just turns around to get it. There are other ways to do deliver it separately from you, but a clean marker followed by throwing it behind him will really help. That makes the end of the behavior clearer (also clearer when you release him forward) then the next rep is very clear, because you can cue the behavior and reinforce it again.
–
As you build this up, you will want to get 2 super successful sessions in a row (90% success or better) before changing 1 variable (and only one variable 🙂 ) When you took it out to the yard, you changed multiple variables – added a wing, a jump, being on the grass, releasing forward, leading out without connection, etc) and the sit stay was not quite ready for that so it deteriorated very quickly. The 2 failure rule will remind you if you are moving things along too quickly.>>. I’m curious to know if you think this has more potential and whether I should focus on the down instead of the sit >>
I think the down is a more stable position for him at the moment (might be clearer and also, BCs like downs!) You can and should work on both, but at different rates – the downs right progress more quickly that the sits and that is fine.>>is that he raises his butt like he’s doing a play bow.
That counts as a failure, so that is the warning light that the session is too hard and to make sure you get the reinforcement to him sooner.
>>maybe I can correct the play bow if I notice it after I have led out.>>
That is a slippery slope 🙂 So stay connected on the lead outs, watch his butt, and get a TON of reinforcement thrown back behind him before his butt goes up. Also – it is entirely possible that he doesn’t even realize his butt has gone up, so it might get very confusing!
>>We’re still working on down posture. I think I can clean that up pretty easily though.>>
I thought his down posture was fine here! He was excited but holding the down.
>>I watched a podcast about start button behaviors for agility and the trainer was using her arm and leg back as the start button.>>
Start button is a cue to line up at your side, 🙂 and that is fine… but will only be reliably effective as part of a stay cue if you also work on the timing, criteria, and reinforcement.
Let me know what you think of the ideas! I am sure we can get the stay behavior!
Tracy
Yay! Great to hear she got them at a practice jump, where the distractions are even harder. SUPER!!!!
Keep me posted and see you soon in MaxPup 4!
Tracy
Good morning!
She really loves the meatballs 🙂 Yay!!!! She is still building up the love for the teeter, so 2 suggestions to keep her really excited about it:
– straight lines of approach will help her not have to slow down to get on it, so then she will be faster driving up the board. If she has to slow down on even a slight angle, she is likely to not speed up to the top of the board.
– because that teeter is really loud, you can dampen some of it by putting a towel or something on the upside where the board meets the thing holding it up. That way she has to deal with motion, mainly, and not a lot of sound – then when she love the motion, we can add the sound back in : )Good job keep the teeter session short – it is better to do super short sessions and huge amounts of meatballs on each rep 🙂
>She preferred running off the teeter rather than being lifted!>>.
Yes, she was a happy meatball eater on that part too! Fun!
On the lead out video:
>>I discovered that Gingers start line stay is much better when she is further away from the first jump…she took off very quickly on the first rep!>>
She did come in really fast to the first jump on the first sequence here! Yay! I like the start as far back as possible, like at 1:13 where she was up against the ring gating. That happens a lot at trials! And jump grids can help her takeoff with power even when they have to be close to jump 1 (which also happens a lot of trials when it is a tighter space.
The handling went well! To help get the BCs started sooner, you can spread out the jumps so there is 18 feet between them or more – they were close here so that made it harder to get the blinds started. They were maybe one stride late so she read them on landing instead of before takeoff for the pinwheel jump.
On the 2nd rep with the FC, you were actually a little early 🙂 The FC was in progress as she was jumping the first jump, so she correctly came to jump 3. Good girl! You can let her land from 1 then look at 2, then start the FC.
The rest looked really strong with her line commitment!
>>Ginger saw the canine chiropractor today and was adjusted at L6 R, L3 L, and T8 R.
Yay for a good adjustment! And it is something to track: is she always out in the same places? That could indicate a need for strengthening certain spots or an ouchy spot.
>>She thought that her left quads might be slightly different than right. >>
Slightly different, as in larger or smaller? That is definitely something to pay attention too. The vet I take the dogs to actually measures the muscles – equal balance is good! Different sizes could mean she is compensating for some reason (and that can be why she is ‘out’ in spots for the chiro).
>>She has a massage scheduled in about 10 days and I visited with our local canine rehab vet in the event she needs some PT…>>
Perfect!!! You can make an appointment with the rehab vet just as a wellness visit, to get the measurements and see if there are stronger versus weaker spots, as well as get some ideas to strengthen. For example, one of my dogs had a patella issue as a youngster so the rehab vet did measurements (the bad leg was smaller than the good leg, because she was compensating). Then I was given exercises to do and worked up to the legs being balanced and then no more issues 🙂
>>Any recommendations for what course we should do next?>>
The next official class is MaxPup 4, which has more sequencing stuff as well as how. to transition the dogs into the trial ring. It will start later in the summer, to give the dogs time to practice their skills and grown up a little more. You can also try the CAMP class, and her brother can do the hard stuff and she can try some of the simpler skills work! That content is really hard so I don’t recommend a full working spot for any of the MaxPup 3 alums 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>dogs helped supervise me pulling some nasty spiny things out of the yard.
Ewwww! I hate those spiny things!!
The zig zags are going great! So now we are in Operation Get Her To Bounce 🙂 And also, we can start to add handler motion up the line so that she can coordinate her mechanics even as you are (eventually) running.
Picking up where you ended here, with the bars and wings all touching – let’s add motion first! The goal is that you can basically serp her up the line without as much upper body drama and no lower body rotation.
To do that, opening up the line of jumps helps so at first, she can see a straight line through them it will probably be something like 12 to 18 inches of gap so she sees a straight channel. There should always be a target at the end (the Pet Tutor or a toy are fine, about 10 feet past the last jump). At first, you can lead out and be stationary to see if she can find the line (it will appear straight but she still has to do some zig zag action.
Then if that is comfy, you can lead out less (and less and less) and be walking forward a she is doing that line. If she cannot bounce (she is little!) then yes, go to weave poles. The goal is to, at some point in the distant future), have her bouncing side to side while the jumps are lined up like there were at the end of the video here, and with you running. This can take a long time (weeks, months) so it is fine to start it now and there is no rush to get it done. You can use overlapping jump wings to get the distances to work and the bars to stay in.
Here is a visual of what it looks like, in case I am not making any sense haha:
She did really well on the lateral lead outs! Super high rate of success (and a strong stay too :))
Her only questions came when you moved to the release too quickly – what I mean by that is, you lead out, then almost immediately released so she was still looking towards you and you were looking at the jump. You can see it at :59 and 1:29.
So you can take an extra moment on those: lead out get settled in position, connect with her, Mayne even point to the jump so she can take a moment to look t the jump too… then release. It will feel like a long time 🙂 That will be helpful as you add more and more distance between the jumps and as you put her in a stay position further back from the jumps too (I think she is ready for more distance between jumps or starting further back then eventually more distance AND starting further back :))
>>I think this is what you were describing with the 5& 4o clock positions, but I’m having a hard time thinking of a course where I would want to set her at that angle if the course was going back towards me later>>
I described the clock poorly LOL!! Sorry! Because yes, I meant the easier slice angles so she is facing the direction you will eventually be going (like you did at 2:06 and 3:27 for example)
It was not a bad thing to practice the harder/weird angles because it does challenge the forward focus to the jump, but for real life use, yes, it would be the more natural slice angles 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
I am glad you had fun! On the lateral lead outs, we are seeing these types of openings all the time now! Since he did so well with it and had very few questions, you can keep working these and also moving his angle around so he is slicing it more and more rather than facing it straight on (those slice angles are SUPER popular nowadays in course design!!)
And his stay looked awesome 🙂As you add more distance between the jumps, you can exaggerate the cues a bit more: face the takeoff spot (about 3 feet or so in front of the bar) and step to it (rather than to the bar). That will let him see more connection which supports the commitment. And be sure to throw a lot of reinforcement to the landing side of that first jump so he is really locked onto it.
The backside proofing looked great – he got the backside and didn’t seem to look at the tunnel at all! He only had one question (3:05) where he took the front, and it looked like yo song your arm a bit too much and that broke connection. You adjusted back to great connection on the next rep.
After the first couple of reps, you started dropping the reward on the landing side of the jump and that really pumped up his independence! Super! You were able to get further and further across the bar, and you were great about staying in motion which sets up the countermotion exits. So you can practice those countermotion exits separately then when he is happy to take the jump while you are moving forward past it, you can add the backside send and coutnermotion exit together in flow.
Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
I’m so glad the RCs went well!! Google would let me open the document (Google is annoying like that LOL). She normally turns really well to her right, so it might have just been how things were set up.And thank you for all the kind words! I’m glad you had fun 🙂 it has been so fun for me to watch Bazinga as she grows up, you’re doing an awesome job with her training and the joy you two share when playing together is so clear and wonderful 😊❤️
Tracy
Good morning!
Nice work with the tandem turns here! You were too quick and too far from the wing at L03 and L55 so she didn’t know what you wanted, but you switched to much smoother, clearer and yes – slower 🙂 movement at :09, :49 and :59 and she looked great! Tandem turns and their cousins, threadle wraps are actually deceleration moves, and we need to wait until the dogs turn their heads AND change their leads to get to the jump before we change direction.
>>I was not connecting well and she wanted the toy in my hand>>
I agree that it was a connection question in those spots… but not a toy issue. The disconnections looked enough like a blind cross that she was correctly switching sides (or coming towards you to switch sides). So it might have felt like she was looking at the ball because it was in the hand she was heading towards… but when you were connected and the info was clear, the ball was not a problem 🙂
There were 3 spots she had questions with that:
At :16 – the connection break looked like a blind cross (you closed shoulder and looked forward, which is identical to the beginning of a blind). So she changed sides. You held the connection better heading to the wing at :22 until the last moment where you turned away so she turned with you. More movement up the line will help, so you don’t end up standing still for that long.
At :33 you disconnected and pointing ahead with the dog-side arm… which also looks like the beginning of a blind 🙂Compare to the other side when you ran the mirror image – looks like the ball was still in the opposite hand and your connection was so much clearer, so she didn’t go to the ball at all! Yay!
So really emphasizing the connection helps a lot – and keeping your hands back towards her nose helps because that will keep your shoulders on the line you want and not accidentally showing the start of a blind.
If you want to test the theory, run with a full cup of water in your dog-side hand – you will feel the difference between the connection and disconnection (when you arm goes too far forward) because you will feel the water splash out everywhere 🙂
Great job here! Have fun at the trial!
Tracy
Good morning!
This went really well! Glad you got a break to do it between raindrops!He had an easier time finding 1 when you were on the landing side of it on the wing – your position drew him there better. When you were on the takeoff side, he had a harder time taking the jump and not coming to you. The things that really helped him be successful were when you looked at him before the release, as well as hen you took a big step towards him (towards the takeoff spot). If you stepped to the jump more than to the takeoff spot (like at 1:13) then the info was not as clear and he came to you.
Also, great job with the reward placement! As you add more distance between the jump and the wing, you can place the reward there in advance to help get more forward focus on the line even before you release him. You can probably do that for 2 or 3 reps, then switch to a thrown reward as he gets more independent with the skill. And that will also help as you move him further back from jump 1, and as you add more handling like serps and front crosses.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Rear crosses are definitely tricky! There might have been a couple of factors at play here – it was hard to see the exact line you were running (especially on the right turns) because of the camera angle. Here are some ideas!
On the left turns at the beginning of the 1st video, I think she was getting the info early enough to adjust to the left. They had a little “pull” of your shoulders to her right so she was turning right before turning left (you can see it right before takeoff, especially at :20) but the rest of the info got her to switch to the left turn. Your timing of putting pressure on the line was as she was landing from the previous jump, and you were not accelerating a ton (moving forward but not big acceleration). Those helped her read the RC info. So you can take out the slight shoulder pull and those will be perfect!
For the right turns – since I can’t really see the line, we can look at timing and motion 🙂 the timing looked a little later in terms of pressuring into the line (watching your feet) and also your motion had a lot of acceleration – so the acceleration might have been covering up the other info on the right turn RCs. There was so much acceleration that the RC info was not really visible to her til after landing (you can see how wide the turns were, due to the big acceleration cues.
Also one other factor might be that it looks like she was turning towards a fence on the right turn RCs? Hard to tell exactly how far away it was, but maybe that was a contributing factor – the pressure of a fence.
Try the right turns on the other side of the sequence – it will just be the two jumps after the tunnel, with her on your right , so she will be turning back to the center of the sequence – and that might give us info if it helps her see it better : )
Nice work here!
Tracy
