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Good morning!
>>Yes, your description is a very familiar way of thinking about learning and motivation. We’re playing with a different point of view, where RPE plays the role we know it to have but it isn’t the primary driver of learning, rather it is fine tuning.>>
Learning and behavior (and the brain) is so very complex that yes, RPE is not a primary driver – tooooo many different types of learning. I think of it as a primary driver of the early stages of transactional learning like operant conditioning (and OC is not necessarily the strongest form of learning but it is the one we dog trainer types can see easily and use a lot in dog training).
>>This all started with an experiment where a graduate student raised zebrafish and blocked all brain activity for the first 6 days of the animal’s life, then removed the chemical blocker and 1. the animal performed all the behaviors a normal zebrafish does, and 2. you could actually see the brain come online when the blocker goes away (one of the supplementary movies in the paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10774424/). So what this tells us is that the animal behavior is very much genetically built in already and there is very little neural rearrangement going on,>>
Yes! Cool stuff! And genetically wired behavior is a different thing entirely, imo. My herding dogs from working lines (not from conformation lines) are likely to start showing herding behavior as soon as they can process visual stimuli. And my Papillons have never shown that. And a cat won’t show it either LOL!!! But genetically wired behavior is not transactional. So while we do exploit some of it in our OC work because it can inform how we set up sessions and our choices for reinforcement, we know we are doing it because some of the genetic wiring can be tied into what the dog finds reinforcing or motivating.
>> this did cause some stir in the community of course because we have been attributing a lot of neural rearrangement to environmental factors.>>
Yes and there was a recent twin study in humans (from China, I think) that attributed a lot of things to environment. I do think that genetic wiring is a HUGE factor, but also canine and human brains are genetically wired for social cues and environmental cues differently than fish & rats & mice (also wired for social cues but in a different way), which is part of what makes it so insanely complex. But fascinating!
>>What this then boils down to is the idea that animals learn very quickly behaviors that they are wired to do genetically, basically it’s effectively one-shot learning.>>
Yes – going back to Border Collies, for example – that is why a BC can be a great herding dog regardless of the quality of the OC or reinforcement factors or anything the same dog would need to learn, say, weave poles.
And the genetic differences between breeds are fascinating. My whippet is bred from lines that are bred to race. He is a wildly different creature than whippets bred for conformation.
>>Executing the behavior correctly is a matter of fune tuning the system. For example we quickly get the idea of “use the racket to hit the ball over the net” in tennis, but it’s many repetitions necessary to build the muscle memory and coordination (fine tuning). >>
The neuronal memory needed for the mechanics is definitely rehearsal. We separate the progression into 3 things when we are training the dogs:
‘learning’ which is getting the behavior, practice/rehearsal which is the neuronal memory needed to be able to do things quickly without needing to devote a lot of mental bandwidth to it and avoiding depletion, and preparation which is different from the other two. Preparation is working the dog in the same neurobiological state that they will be in when asked to recall the behavior (like in the competition ring, for example). This definitely takes us out of the laboratory work because in the lab, the animals are not asked to ‘compete’ in an entirely different state (but the state dependent memory studies are fascinating too) So approaching training as also preparing the neurobiology is something the animal behavior scientists are taking notice of!
3 entirely different things that work in 3 entirely different ways (RPE, multi-sensory integration, neurobiology/HPA Axis/etc, and with an eye on both the genetically wired behavior AND the individual animal). Complex but fascinating 🙂
>On the other hand a lot of the research on learning is done in mice and yet, a mouse learns a maze ridiculously quickly, or food avoidance when it’s toxic — to the point that these are so quick that no one in a lab studies them because they are “too good at the task already” and instead focuses on lever pressing which is such an unnatural thing to ask of a mouse that it requires thousands of repetitions (taking fine tuning to an extreme and calling it learning).>>
Funny, we geek out over the maze studies and avoidance studies because we want the quickness and the strength of behavior those produce. I personally don’t want to use toxic food or shock, but the most powerful learning comes when we use what is most natural to the animal especially when training what is less natural. I also read a lot of the errorless learning studies (the dog training world has completely mis-interpreted errorless learning and has accidentally reproduced some of the issues that the first studies had) and am a little obsessed with the Hebbian learning stuff too – that is actually a HUGE element that we all need to pay more attention to in dog sports (don’t ask me about my young dog dropping the ball at the jump in his flyball session yesterday, EEK hahahaha)
>>To bring this to Obi and the training sessions, interacting with me in the context of trainig is like being in a game of tennins and knowing that the ball should be hit with a racket, then doing all the agility sequences is all about fine tuning the movements and context. >>
Yes – there is a big element of rehearsal/practice and not necessarily learning or dopamine release in the RPE context. And the reinforcement and session structure go a long way to that.
>>There really isn’t *that much* of a surprise for him.>>
Yes, there is no that much of a surprise (nor is there intended to be, it is juts practice) and no – the adolescent brain does weird things in mammals and he might be ‘surprised’ when he does get rewarded because his brain was telling him something else happened. And also *not* getting rewarded can be just as surprising as getting rewarded particularly if the brain says “I nailed it, here comes the reward” – it is about the prediction, not really about the reward. And the dopamine is released on the prediction more than on the reward.
>>> The short sessions make sense in this context because 1. learning actually happens very quickly, 2. animals switch between exploring and exploiting states all the time, e.g. a behavior can be very successful on many repetitions (exploitation state, looks like “paying attention”) but after a few they will switch to exploration state (try other things) which looks like distraction, or fatigue, etc. >>
Absolutely! And it might be legit muscle fatigue as well, not just a change in mental state, and their form changes.
>>I’ve come to appreciate the MaxPup setup precisely because it seems to set us up for clear quick learning followed by an exploitation state to reinforce the sequence >>
Yay! That is the goal! And we can also see pretty early on if the ‘learning’ we want is actually happening.
>>if the human doesn’t get greedy with it we can walk away early before we switch to a new exploration state (and the clarity of what we’ve just done gets muddled).>>
That is the hardest part LOL!!!!
>>Anyhow, everything following the actual experiments with the fish is mostly active brainstorming for rethinking learning and animal behavior in light of evolution and systems neuroscience >>
This is SO COOL and I ma excited for the future of it! And the behavior people are splitting into 2 schools: one of which is just going more hardcore into “everything is operant” versus “OC is a tiny piece of the much bigger puzzle”.

>> thanks for letting me thought vomit, hope it’s not entirely un-parseable.>>I freaking love it! And Thank you for the link to the study 🙂 I will be reading it asap!!
>>BTW today I learned that Karen Pryor was helping one of the faculty here to design training assays for his rat experiments!!! >>
That is so cool!!! The rat experiments have been awesome. And the fMRI work with dogs have been pretty amazing too.

Onwards to videos!The 2 jumping videos were great!
On the first one (ladder video) he was having a little trouble setting his hind end for jump 2. You can see him changing what he is doing on each re- – shortening up, carrying his back legs a bit for he 1st three reps at :11, :40, :51. Then he uses them better (more push, less carry) at 1:43 (bar down). Then he nailed it at 1:56 – excellent!!!This session right here is why I don’t punish bars. One of the best efforts here was where the bar came down, and what also made it great was he was trying to sort out how to improve his mechanics. If we had told him he was wrong because the bar happened to come down? Well, that would be counterproductive to say the least!
On the 2nd video, he maintained the mechanics he figured out in the first session on all the reps. Good boy!!!! And he read the distances really well. Not surprisingly, the bigger distances been 2 and 3 were easier but also he gets a gold start for rep 5 where he went back to the more compressed bounce without any trouble. Super!!
>>He just keeps bouncing!? Should we modify the distances or do we leave him bouncing?>>
He was bouncing appropriately here, so leave the bounces at this distance but you can move jump 3 out 6 feet for each rep rather than 3 feet. That way at some point in rep 3 you will end up at a one-stride distance (which might mean rep 4 becomes a 1-stride as well for now, which is fine).
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I’m not quite sure what you are looking for, but I’m sure you will explain it.>>
We are looking for 2 things here:
From the trainer perspective, we are looking for the sweet spot of the setup: how far apart should the set point (jumps 1 and 2) be, how far away from the jump should she start, how far away should the reward target be.
Looking at the videos and bearing in mind that whippets move differently than a lot of other dogs in agility – I think her set point distance might need to be 7 feet. She is not a big dog but she has a giant whippety stride, so she needs more room in the set point to get her rear under her with more power. So on the next session, try 7 feet between 1 and 2 and see how she does.For the set up in front of 1 – she was at her best when she was close to jump 1, less a foot away from it. That way she can push off from the sit and have a balanced, powerful jumping effort. If she is too far away, she taps her feet with a tiny stride before 1 and that throws off the balance.
For the reward – The MM should be another 10 feet further away from jump 3 so she can land from 3 with power take another powerful stride, then slow down to get the cookies (the MM moves out with the jump). If the MM is too close, she will spend her time trying to slow down so she doesn’t land on it 🙂
From the dog jumping perspective, for the target dogs we are looking for a consistent bounce between 1 and 2 on every rep, then for her to ‘read’ the distances and adjust her stride for each rep. So between jumps 2 and 3, ideally that would be a bounce on rep 1, probably a boy nice on rep 2, a one stride for now (maybe a bounce eventually) on rep 3, replicating what she did on rep 2 during rep 4, then bounces on rep 5.
Looking at her videos:
Rep 1 – she did bounce on this but it was hard for her – her start position was a bit too far back so she was a little off balance coming into it, and the MM was a little too close so she was working on slowing down and yo can see her head coming up as she is jumping.
Rep 2 – I liked her position on 1 a lot better because she could liftoff immediately and with power. She started to move into a down before the release so that made it harder but she was nice and close so she could take off without extra steps. She got bounces between here too and they were more comfortable looking, because of the better start position. The MM can be further away to let her power out.
Rep 3 – on this rep, her start position was further from 1 so she tapped her feet before 1, which put her off balance and you can see she is jumping more upwards than forward. She did do a one stride in that 12 foot distance (she will probably bounce that as an adult dog) but she had a little trouble because she was off balance jumping into 1 and 2. Starting closer will smooth that out.
Rep 4 – This rep had the better (closer) start position, which helped produce better jumping mechanics – she read it well!
Rep 5 – she stepped in nicely here and had a bounce bounce! Yay! You can see with the MM being close, she was slowing down, so changing the MM position will help get even more balance and power.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
This video had the wraps on jump 2. The main thing here is to use a distinct transition of decelerating *then* rotating. That will help smooth out the turns.The right turns on jump 2 require a lot of rotation, so you will want to be almost facing her as she is approaching the jump. At :06 leaning forward to the jump, which produced a wide turn because it looked more like a slice cue.The re-send at :14 was a lot more rotated and went much better! :19 was also more rotated – no need to do the rotation fast, though, as that acceleration can send her wide. The rep at :25 had the clearest decel and rotation, and also the best turn. Yay!
On the other side, the rep at :35 had decel simultaneously happening with a push-down rotation towards her and it looked like a backside cue. When that happens, just keep going as if it was correct (because she did read the cues correctly). She did get the tug as you got back to jump 1 but there was still the moment of stopping which indicates she was wrong.
:55 had similar cues maybe a step further over but you don’t need to do it all that fast – she is a little wide on the wrap because of all the motion. Think of it as decel then rotate, and because she is a good turning dog, I don’t think you need as much pressure towards her on the takeoff spot. That added pressure pushes her off the line a bit and also can delay the info of the full rotation or you exiting for the next line.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
On this video, you were tending to send to the tunnel from further away and pull away fro the line to get the jumps… but it was creating questions on the bars in the beginning of the video and on the RCs later in the video. Being that far away can reverse the motion (showing decel as you wait for her to get on the line after the tunnel) then sudden movement, which is what contributed to her hitting the bar at :07 and :16.
If you move in towards the tunnel more then. One up the line, you will be able to show the line from nice and close – so the turn to 3-4 is clearer (you won’t need to push back towards it) and then you can show a transition from the acceleration into the decel for the wrap which will tighten it up and also will allow you to stay closer (sudden rotation at :16 contributed to the bar coming down).
And being able to be closer will also allow you to set the RC line, where you need to be very close to the jumps.
So to get that, stay nice and close to the jumps but show her a little less motion for now: just jog of the lines near the wings, turning shoulders and using decel but not accelerating away from the line. That can show her the lines and put in great position – and then you can add back the faster motion while still being able to be close to the line where needed.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
The FC on the takeoff side of the #3 jump looked great and the BC on landing side was strong too. Either option will work well for you! Timing and connection there looked super!She had trouble finding 5 – I think the BIG visual of a-frame contributed to that. So if you see something big in the environment like that, rather than pull away faster/more laterally or use a big decel, you can work the line but slowing down your motion but keeping it steady the whole way through so she can process the motion and the visual/verbal cues. Pulling away faster and sooner hanged the line more than you will want, so you can just use steady but slower motion along the line so she can process the big visual. You can also move the visual of the a-frame out of the way, but I think it is fine to expose her to the visuals of other things on course while teaching her to process things – as long as you are aware that it might draw her visual focus away from the line you want.
At the very end, you moved up the line on 3-4-5-6-7 more slowly so you could get the FC wrap and that went well, you were in a good position and she got the turn to 5. Yay!
Nice job!
TracyGood morning!
These are looking strong. The lead outs to the front or blind cross went more smoothly when you were a little further ahead (not running into them) because your timing was better (like on reps 1 and rep 3). On rep 2, she saw you face 3 then rotate back to her before the release and I think it caused her to ask questions.You were early on the timing when you started to add motion by running into the crosses:
You did the FC as she was lifting off for 1 at :32 and the blind at :42 was also as she was lifting off, so she correctly did not take 2 on those reps. You were more patient with the timing at :53and 1:01 (let her look at 2 as she was landing so she took 2).She had a little trouble with the turn on 3 and NOT taking the tunnel that was right there. I think part of what contributed was by then she had a bunch of reps of locking onto the tunnel so starting with the turn on the jump at the beginning of a session can help eliminate the failures. You can break it down like you ended up doing here, then do the full session. That way she won’t pattern to the tunnel and will be able to read the cues more easily. The cues where you were facing her and rotating as she was in the air over 2 were the clearest and really set up a strong turn.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
I agree, she did great with the decel game! She turned really well in both directions (maybe a little fatigued turning left at the end, she had a bar tick and was not as smooth) and your cues were very clear and timely. The only suggestion is to use a wrap verbal when you are sending her to th jump for the collection rather than the ‘go’ verbal -the ‘go’ verbal might conflict with the collection physical cues.
>>She came out of the tunnel a little hot going to the right so her initial turn was wide before going over the first jump. Is there anything I should have done to correct or help this?>>
Yes, I can see what you mean! I think the tunnel exit was pointed to the backside line a bit and on some of the reps, like at :27 and :34, I think she could see your acceleration up the line so she exited the tunnel straight. The physical cues were good, so you can either turn the tunnel exit to face the jump more, or call her name before she goes in so she is turning when she exits.
The forced front cross video went well! Great job getting her to read the line and come to the correct side of jump 2 each time! She had one question about the bar at jump 1 at :54, but I think she was set up in her sit too close to jump 1 (looks like she hit the bar with her front legs as she was lifting off).
>>In the first sequence, she had a little bit of a struggle seeing jump 3. She kept going to the tunnel. >>
I don’t think this was a handling question as much as it was a discrimination question. Her love of tunnels has increased a lot recently (that is a good thing!) so now we are asking her to ignore the tunnel and find the jump. That is HARD! Helping her at :49 and 1:01 with a ‘here’ verbal and shoulder turn really helped her see it (as well as on the other reps), and by 2:40 she had it beautifully. SUPER!
There was a lead out push rep where she didn’t take the backside of 3 (at 1:11) – on those, maintain a bigger connection to her as she lands from 2 so that you can show her the line to 3 (rather than point forward to it). The connection will turn your shoulders to the line so she can see the backside line.
Doing the left wrap on the other side of 2 with the throwbacks looked great! That move feels weird at first but you both got it really well, and it will get smoother and smoother as you practice it. It produces a really tight turn, and that looked lovely!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I have to remember not to say “try again” -I have been trying to just ask for a hand touch and reward, my girls seem to understand “try again” as “almost there, we’re just going to change a little thing and get a reward” and it helps them do another rep but for West he seems to hear an angry game show buzzer “you lose and get no reward even though I gave you bad handling” 😢 – I noticed the body slams while editing>>
“Angry game show buzzer” LOL! Yes! You are certainly NOT delivering it that way, but that is how he perceives it so just going into the reset cookie or rewarding if there was a chance the handling wasn’t clear will work well. You don’t even need to do a hand touch, because the hand touch could end up being a cue for a punisher. So it is better to just reward or use a line up reward to reset for the next rep.
>>I was never felt satisfied with our max pup 1 rc attempts – I was late and he wasn’t getting it – it’s on my list to re-attempt but never did it, I don’t know if I should keep trying on the flat or move onto jump – wind in hair exercise? I guess I could give both a couple tries of both and see…..>>
Go to the jump and try it! Try it to his stronger side first, and video to make sure you are on time. It is also perfectly fine to put a toy or MM out on the turn side to help him out 🙂
>>My older dog has just started flyball tournaments and she and I have been on our own timeline over about 5 years so she started tournaments not having done mat times and when offered mat time for West I wasn’t quite sure what to do with him>>
Hooray for your older girl! What region are you in?
>>I try to catch him from recalls gently where I keep hold of the tug and we slow together but if he is fast and the gentle slow doesn’t work then I let got bc I’m not comfortable snapping his neck around so sometimes he has his tug for the victory lap and sometimes he just lets go of the tug and heads off alone>>
I TOTALLY agree that we don’t want to let the dogs snap their necks or spines on the toy… Ideally we let them “run through” the toy, but they do need to bring it back pretty quickly for that 🙂 So a game you can play which will lock him onto you without needing to let go of the toy or snap his neck is a change of direction on the recall. Basically, as he is catching up to you (about a stride or two away) you are decelerating then do a FC the other direction 🙂 Then reward him for chasing you – and you can reward with the toy in your hand and he won’t slam his neck 🙂
>>– looking at another dog from his mat for cookie at a big distance —> hard
– playing a pattern game that he knows: down on bed – cookie to left – down on bed – cookie to right —- down on bed > has gone well
– alternating tugging and down on bed (bed essentially start button to resume tugging) —> has gone well>>You can fade the bed and get him moving more, using patterns while you are walking back and forth or standnig still (up and down game). For my dogs and teammates/students, we have ben very successful with Super Bowls in the lane or near the lane while other dogs are working (and the variation where we do it in a line up position between our feet combined with up and down).
>>– playing ball to tug – —-> being selective about when to try, this has mostly been ok – once he escaped to go greet his teammate doing recalls>>
You can alternate: one dog does a recall while another does a pattern. Then he can do a ball to tug while the other dog is at the end of the lane, not running. Also, you don;t need to do a ball retrieve, you can do a toy retrieve.
>> recalls w/o jumps —> hardest but we have managed with me catching him and his line before timers and getting my foot on the line while tugging>>
I think the direction changes on the recalls will help you fade the line 🙂 Jumps are not super important right now anyway.
>> some of our teammates work on foundations for box turn or practice on the box but west is 11 months and practicing being reliable getting his ball off the board leaning against a wall so I have not been doing box turn type stuff during mat time>>
I agree with this – at 11 months old, he doesn’t need to be doing any wall or box turn work in mat time. Engagement games are the top priority. Box work is easy when we have the engagement.
>>We have several potential teammates and West has a hierarchy of how exciting he finds his teammates so I like to have a couple plans in mind so that I can make a choice based on his arousal level in the moment???>>
I think the highest priority would be getting engagement regardless of teammate excitement level 🙂
>>Maybe I’m asking, is it bad to use his mat time for pattern games??
It is TOTALLY good to get the pattern games fluent! 2 things will happen when he is fluent in pattern games in the flyball environment:
– he will be less stimulated by the movement of the other dogs
– he will be more easily able to engage with you and do the ‘things’ you ask for 🙂here are two examples of patterns in the flyball environment.
this first one is the super bowls/up and down power pattern combo:
And the 2nd one is using a pattern game to enter the environment:
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Great job getting her past the tunnel entry to the wing behind it, then sending her to the tunnel entry, on all 3 videos! Excellent connection got it done and she looked lovely on that skill! I don’t think she looked at the tunnel at all (looking at you a little when the tunnel bag tried to grab your foot on the last video, great job remaining upright!!)On the 3rd video –
>>You can see her wraps are really wide here. I am not thinking about the wraps rather I am thinking about the yes/no/go actions, but I need to get better at thinking about everything.>>
Yes – on the wraps here on the 3rd video, there were not enough wrap cues to get the collection. You were accelerating forward then rotated, so reemmber to add in the decel as soon as (or even before) she exits the tunnel. That transition plus the connection and wrap verbals will tighten up the turns for sure!
The other thing I was thinking about was that she is working for a thrown ball, which she really loves. But balls tend to get dogs scoping out wider lines (because they have to drive away to get the ball). So the ball reward brings a lot of forwardness and speed to the lines which I really like! But also you can balance the rewards for tight turns with a tug toy or treat delivered from your hand after you rotate the new direction, to help promote the collection back to you. I like to use a ball and treats in the same session to keep the forwardness on the lines balanced with the tight turns. Let me know if that makes sense!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning! These are really good sessions! Your position on the jump was spot on and her commitment was strong. Yes, the left turn wraps are harder for sure but she got better and better (you can see that in video 1, where each rep got tighter and tighter. I think the main thing is going to be practicing the simple decel games to strengthen the decel cue, especially as we add more and more motion before the decel.
The 2nd video had right turn wraps and they looked great, even better than the session at the club. Super!!!
You had more left turn wraps on the 3rd video: you were a tiny bit late getting into the decel at :03 (for this game – eventually that timing will NOT be late when she reads decel better) and she was a little wide. Compare to the rep at :27 where you were perfect and her wrap looked wonderful!!
And the rep at :43 was SUPER!!! She is getting the idea of the mechanics for the left turn wraps!Video 4: these are right turns, and they are looking good. You can add a little more connection so she doesn’t widen out to look for the connection before coming into the turn. It can just be a bit of a head turn in her direction so she can drive directly into the decel and collection.
Video 5 – this one added more speed with the jump before the tunnel – the first rep was hard as she was turning left and looking forward at the blue jump out ahead… but then she got the collection and turned. It was after landing but we will take it 🙂 She will continue to get better and better in this direction.
The right turn reps here are looking really good!Video 6 (sends):
>>With send. I struggled with this. From a passive position she did not want to send out. I cut the distance down and she did better.>>
She did best when you added your leg into the send cue, taking one big step forward. When you did that like at :17 and 1:06 and 1:43, her send was great AND she had excellent collection. When you did not use your leg (or used it before she could see it moving) like on the first rep, :49, and 1:20, she did not send past you on just the hand cue. So the leg can totally be used as part of the send cue, especially when you are further and further from the tunnel.
As you add more and more motion, you can also add more connection on all the decels – looking very directly at her, even as you are standing still, will encourage her to collect more. And then we can start adding in the transitions so you can be moving into the decels and still get the nice tight turns 🙂
Great job!!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>Sometimes I think it’s from too many failures. >>
Yes, that is a true possibility. And that adds up if there are multiple failures every session, and builds frustration into training in general. And we want to avoid that, of course! The 2 failure rule is the life saver here – just enough failure to deliver feedback about what is right versus what is wrong. But not enough failure to get frustration.
>>Sometimes though I think Mason is just very intense about things and he can’t handle the anticipation.>>
It might be about junk own or uncertain things in what is happening next, which can contribute to arousal state changes. So making things as completely predictable as possible will help a whole lot too. That can be stuff like more reinforcement for smaller pieces of the behavior, using pattern games before starting any type of training, using a station for him to hang out on when getting ready, for example. Those are all high rate of reinforcement behaviors that lend a lot of predictability to the environment.
>> An example could be at the start line of rally class yesterday when he wouldn’t stop frantically grabbing at the leash. He wasn’t tugging in a playful way. Instead he seemed overwhelmed to the point of wanting to destroy something. >>
That is important feedback! Was he faced with entering a ring to do a series of rally behaviors, like a rally course? That leash tugging is often a self-soothing behavior as well as possibility an avoidance behavior. All of it indicates that he is feeling over-faced so it is our job to dial it back n terms of what we are asking for, asking for smaller pieces with higher value reinforcement. Trading the leash for a toy or a great treat can help. And pattern games too! And then for the rally behavior – lots and lots of reinforcement each step of the way and not trying to sequence it all together yet.
>>>>If we had been outdoors this would have probably been expressed as grass pulling. >>
Is that something you have seen in training? I have not seen it in the videos, which is why unedited videos are always better 🙂
>>Other times the frustration may come from a lack of clarity on my part.>
Absolutely! We humans are sometimes not as clear as we think we are 🙂 That is why rewarding anyway even if we think we were correct (video shows us that we are often *not* correct LOL!) and using reset rewards, as well as stopping a session to watch the video if something is going wrong more than twice.
>> I can’t say though that he looks like he is actually enjoying it and I really do want training to be fun for him.>>
His arousal state will often tell us if they are enjoying it, or doing it because of intrinsic motivation to work. Sometimes it is hard to tell with BCs.
>>What I can’t tell is whether I’m making all of this harder than it needs to be for him by asking him to do it when he’s not really ready … or if he actually is ready and the best thing to do would be to work through any issues now.>>
I have found over the years that if we are asking this question: then yes, we are making it too hard. That can mean the sessions are too long, or criteria getting increased too quickly, or too many failures, or changing environments while expecting the same behaviors as home, or all of the above. The rate of success and arousal state provides. The answer too: high rate of success? Optimized arousal state? Then you are good to go! Low rate of success (below 80%), changes in arousal state? Then it is too hard.
>>Let’s see what we find out with the videos. I might pick the easiest game and the hardest game from next week and see if there are any differences in how he handles the two sessions.>>
I am looking forward to that! And it will help us really sort out what he needs!
Tracy
Hi! Great job here with the tunnel threadles!
The GO tunnel and wing wraps all looked good. She had one question at 1:34, where you turned away from the tunnel before she had looked forward, so she came off the line. Compare to the other reps like at 1:39 where you had great connection and forward motion. Your cue to the tunnel at 1:53 was perfection, in terms of connection and line of motion!
She had zero errors on the tunnel threadle cues – super!!! Your collection cues at the wing before the tunnel threadle were clear and that really helped set up success.
You don’t need to pull away from the line quite as much – by pulling way to the other wing, she thought it was a post turn to the next wing and was looking at you a lot more than needed. You can see it most clearly on the reps coming towards the camera.
You can turn her on the wing like you did, then move directly to the tunnel entry you want rather than pull her then flip her back. Showing her the threadle arm more clearly towards her will help with the connection there, and also I think she can independently head to the correct tunnel entry (rather than relying on your to flip her back to it with your arm and motion). That way she can just drive to the correct entry without needing you to help out as much 🙂
The 2 spots where you had a more direct line of motion to the tunnel threadle entry were at 1:11 and 1:29 – as you exited the wing wrap, your feet were heading to the tunnel entry you wanted. She had a tighter line there and no questions. YAY!!!!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I was wondering if you have a ballpark estimate for when the MaxPup3 live class will be offered again after this summer? >>
Looking at the calendar, MaxPup 3 will run late June through the end of August, and then not again until next spring (following the next cohort of MP 1 and MP 2).
>>I see glimmers of greatness in Mason, but I’m also seeing a lot of frustration. It takes us 4 or 5 sessions to split each game into manageable parts and then put it all together.>>
Frustration in terms of too much failure then frustration behavior? Or, let me know what you are seeing. Slicing the behavior into tiny tiny pieces and taking several sessions to put it together is fine! The 2 failure rule is the key to reducing and avoiding frustration.
>> This has me wondering if he would find all of this a lot easier if he took the summer off and picked it back up in the Fall after he’s had more time to mature a bit. He’s almost 13 months old now.>>
Adolescence is a hard time for sure! Training session structure is key to dealing with it though, so we can look at the structure of the sessions to see what we can tweak.
>> I’m open to other ideas as well for Mason. >>
For your next sessions: turn the camera on, do the session of about 2 or 3 minutes, shut the camera off, don’t edit it: just upload and post 🙂 The edited videos don’t let us think about session structure, which is more important than the actual skill if you are seeing frustration behavior. That can gives us ides to move forward without the frustration.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree – he seemed to like the games and he was FAST!! So fun to see!!The find-the-jump game from the tunnel went really well. Great job adding the different positions and more motion!
The hardest part was the first rep on each side (and also at :46):
The tunnel exit does point past the jump, so the parallel path took him to the backside of the jump (you can see he had to turn to find the jump after exiting the tunnel on the successful reps). Ao be sure he doesn’t need to turn too much (like at 1:14 and 1:34) and more importantly: don’t mark the error with a verbal because he body slams you each time you do that. I don’t think you need to mark it because he already knew it was not correct (no thrown toy). Instead, bring him back to you for a cookie at your side or tossed near you to immediately rest for the next rep – that way he still has the awareness of “that is not quite right” but without frustration, and the immediate reset can line up for the next rep without the body slam.He did well when he figured out the turn and on the reps where the tunnel exit was straighter, so you can use a “get it” marker to keep him looking ahead for the toy. And you can add even more distance here so both of you get to move more 🙂
The smiley face game went well, and you both had great hustle! YAY!!! One suggestion: connect on the tunnel exits as you cue the wrap. When you did not connect at 1:56 (you were looking and pointing forward), based on the shoulder position he was correct to come into the other side of the wing. And this is a place where you also don’t want to mark it as wrong: keep going because it is likely a handler error on this set up and also he leapt at you when you marked it as wrong. So you can finish the cross and send him back to the tunnel, reward, then adjust to the next rep. You added a lot more connection at 2:08, 2:12, and the last sequence and he had no questions there. Yay!!!
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
The RCs are going really well!!>>I kept a funny blooper at the beginning just because she’s cute and makes me laugh, haha.>>
It was funny LOL!! And also going to the leash on the first rep was totally valid – you tossed it there and then you stepped to it (you were blocking the line to the wing)! So…. Off she went. And it is a toy toy 🙂 I use leashes for tugging all the time!
The most successful RCs were when you started right next to the wrap wing and stayed there til she almost exited then you moved up the RC line. She read that as a RC every time. When you started further away (halfway between the jump and the wing) or moved away from the wrap wing too quickly, the RC info was late (because you were too far ahead to show the pressure line without potentially pushing her off the line) so she did not know it was a RC on those.
For example, at 1:22 you started too far ahead as she exited the wing so had to wait to show the RC line – it started at 1:24 as she was making a takeoff decision, so she turned left when you wanted a right turn. That also happened at 2:01 and 2:12 – you started too far ahead and move up the line before setting the RC so she turned the other way (RC info was late on those). Compare to the successful reps like at 1:38 where you were in a better position to set the line and she got it brilliantly!
And remember to make a BIG connection on all of these – at :55 she didn’t see a connection so ended up on your other side exiting the wing wrap, and looked at you at 2:02 when you were looking ahead (she looked up to see more info about where she should go).
To make it even easier to show the RC lines with this game, you can add more room between the wing and jump so you can start near the wing and then have plenty of time to drive the RC line 🙂 Try it at 25 feet apart and see how it goes!
She did really well with the serp versus threadle versus tunnel! Yay!
Two suggestions, especially as you add more motion now:
You can exaggerate the cues a bit more, so the serp cue has more rotation of your upper body back to her, so the center of your chest is pointing to the center of the bar which will let her see more of the connection. And for the tunnel cues, you can ‘close’ the shoulder forward more which will help her not serp. And for the threadles, the arm can swing back and stay back to see if she will come in then find the jump on her own without any extra handling needed. And keep the connection strong on all of it before the release: if you are not looking at her when you release, you will see she is looking at you a lot which can draw her to the wrong side of the jump.Also, be careful about her start position 🙂 Doing the threadle then tunnel at :58 and 1:14 when you cued the tunnel was legit and correct, because that was the line she was on in her sit and your arm as back like a threadle cue. The ‘tunnel’ cue does not mean she needs to find a layer, it just means “find the line to the tunnel” and that is what she did (so it is definitely correct and rewardable). Compare to 1:23 when you set her up on the other side of the jump and she did not threadle and found the line to the tunnel 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
