Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
The proofing game is looking great! The tunnel cues were easy for him and were very distinct in terms both physical and verbal cues.He came in each time on the serp cue – your shoulder was closed forward on these, so it might be more helpful to use and open shoulder/upper body rotation (think of it as center of your chest rotated to face the center of the bar). There are two reasons for this:
– The serp is a 2-part cue (come in then go out) and with the shoulder closed (perpendicular to the bar) the cue only shows the ‘come in’ element. By opening the upper body towards the jump, you will be cuing both the come in and the go out elements of the serp.
– when in motion, a closed shoulder on both the tunnel cue (even if your arm is a little ahead) and the serp cue will start to look a little too much the same. So, having your arm back and shoulders rotated to face the jump will make the serp look distinctly different as you add more and more speed, building up to running 🙂The threadle is looking really good too! Your arm cue and shoulder position was very clear. You can keep the arm in position and shoulders open for longer, until he looks at the jump. That way he will find the jump without you stepping to it, and that will bring even more independence to the skill.
Since he did so well, you can keep adding motion! You had walking at the end, so you can build up to jogging 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! I hope Jackpot is feeling better!! Poor guy!
>> I still have other videos already cued for review that I completed before this last submission. I’ll start posting those games, one at a time, to clear them from the desk >>
If you have videos that are ready to be posted, feel free to post them at the same time (rather than one at a time). That will speed up the feedback process!
Tracy
Yes – it is here:
Hi!
>>I think my mechanics on the “wait” are still incorrect. Why is it so hard???
Because stays/waits are one of the hardest things! Dogs are brilliant at pairing things, and also motion is a HUGE cue for dogs. So it is super easy to pair motion with the release and then motion (of a hand or head turn or subtle things) becomes the cue. Sigh! I think you did a great job here really paying attention to the releases and NOT pairing them with the same motion consistently. Sometimes you were stationary, sometimes moving, etc. All good!
Looking at the accordion:
You might have noticed that he was not really powering up the line on these, and it was because he was trying to read handling cues and not the grid. This is because you had different cues going and also they didn’t match the toy placement so he was being a little careful (good boy!)For the accordion, because we want him reading distances and not also having to read handling, to get the power jumping it is best to lead all the way out to the reward then release. You were moving slowly on the first 2 reps so he was matching his pace to you. On the 3rd rep, you were stationary but the toy was ahead and you were near jump 3, so he was not sure if he should power to the toy or pay attention to your decel. The same happened at :48 (4th rep) where he put in a collection stride on 3 (good boy!) because of your position. And he had a bit of a hitch stride (watch his front feet) at :56 – you were stationary but said get it so he was trying to figure out which to pay attention to: position/motion or toy.
So you can make it all easier if you and the toy placement are indicating the same thing 🙂 Leading out to it will help, and also having the moving target of the dragging toy will help a lot! I think you will then see some really powerful striding on that because he won’t have to think about handling cues or decel.
The Backsides session also looked really good! Only one little blooper at :08, where I think you were just a little too far across the bar near the exit wing (as compared to the first rep and the following reps) and not moving a lot to support the parallel path. On the other reps you were a little closer to the entry wing (looked like you ended up on the line to the center of the bar) and he did great!
GREAT job dropping the reinforcement in! You can add more motion to this, jogging up the line then working up to running 🙂
Great job with the countermotion! Nice job dropping the toy – excellent timing and placement there too. When he is comfy with you sending to the backside from further across the bar, you can add the fancy exit 🙂 with countermotion to begin to set up backside serps (with the wrap exits) or the German turn exits.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
Short video, yes, but great session! He did really well! Only 2 small details to add for the next session:– he might be an inch or two too far back from jump 1 (literally, an inch) to get that sweet spot for takeoff. So you can try to cookie lure him so he is in a sit maybe 4 inches from the bar and we can see if that centers him between 1 and 2 a tiny bit more.
– as the 3rd jump moves further away, the reward can be further away too so she doesn’t have to decelerate to it. So the reward will always be about 12 feet from jump 3, no matte where jump 3 is 🙂 And, since he is doing really well and his stay looks great, you can add the moving target to this game too!
Great job!!!
Tracy
Interesting to see this! When it was going over her head in the ‘traditional’ way, she flicks her ears a lot, kind of like a horse flicks their ears when flies are being annoying or there is a weird feel. When the harness was sideways, she didn’t flick her ears. She put them down and back for long enough to get the strap over them, but it was a different movement that seemed to indicate a different mood about it.
Watching this and also I think you said she doesn’t love it coming off over her hear – you can probably alter the chest strap to put a quick release buckle the harness doesn’t have to go over her head – it can add an easier way to get it on & off while retaining the benefits of the harness. I got a martingale made for Ramen with that release clip on the next part – he doesn’t mind it going over his head but he tries to “assist” by moving his head back really fast and ends up looking like a flailing fish LOL!! Robin made it (I cannot remember the name of her company, but it is Robin from MN who is at OTR).
Keep me posted!
Hi!
Thank you for the kind words! It has been fantastic having you and Kashia in class – you are an awesome student/trainer to be able to take written info and videos, and translate them into real time training with your dog. The progress has been amazing and an absolute joy to watch. Thank you for being open-minded and willing to try crazy things 😁 – Kashia is doing GREAT!
Looking at the video: this went really well!
The 2 reps of forced front crosses with the throwback at the beginning looked great!Going to the other side was harder because the angle 1-2 was harder to see – she really had to think about finding the correct line (plus I am sure she was a little distracted by the storm coming in).
But after the storm she had it figured out – no questions about finding that line! Super! And you had really strong connection to get her to jump 2 and also show the backside of 3. Nice!!The last part had a couple more forced fronts. There was one little blooper at 1:41 where you stepped back too early (right after she landed from 1) so it did look like a cue to the front side. Compare to the next rep (and previous reps) where you were stationary until she was just about reaching the backside and those were perfect!
Great job here! Hope to see you in future classes!
Tracy
Hi! I am glad Frankie is feeling better. Poor girl!
>>Do I do the 2×2 track lesson 1 one day (like Saturday) and then on Tuesday do the Channels track lesson 1? And switch back and forth between the tracks as they progress? So, do different tracks on different days but work through both at the same time?>>
Yay for being able to borrow channels! Yes, you can alternate sessions, every couple of days. Or, do a little of both on the same day (like 5 reps of 2x2s, and 5 reps of going down the channels) if you can limit yourself to just a few reps of each. Human self-control is hard LOL!! As the poles gets more and more closed, you will likely begin to see a preference where she is more successful in the 2x2s or channels and that is where you can choose which to do. And if you don’t see a preference, you can choose whichever one you like better 🙂
The first reps were great with a reward in position then the release – super! When she froze in position, she was probably waiting for another reward in position. On the successful reps with the release, it was very clear that there would be no more rewards in position (you were upright and facing forward more. And on the frozen rep, you were reaching to the cookie pocket on the first one, then had another cookie in your hand on the 2nd one. I think that there were cookies in your hands on the others, but something about the body language when she didn’t release was saying “more cookies coming” so she kept offering the position 🙂
You can start to add movement – eventually you will be running past the teeter, but you can start with fake walking 🙂 And see if she can hit and hold position. And if that goes well, you can go to slooowwwww walking and eventually we will add more and more speed.
>>On one rep she didn’t let me hold her & jumped up on the teeter and I froze and didn’t treat her and I can see that it messed with her confidence. >>
If she slips away and gets into position, you can release her and reward in a line up position so she still kinda gets a reward, but also she doesn’t start the game without you 🙂
She did great with the decel game! She offer great collection and that is rare when beginning this game LOL!! She was also coming all the way around the wing after the first rep – it is very easy for small dogs to back jump but you delayed your FC a tiny bit on the next rep or two and she didn’t back jump again.
She sends were AWESOME!!! She powered past you and still got a great collection. That looked amazing!!! So you can start to add FCs on those too, to challenge her to maintain her commitment while you are turning and moving the other way (back towards the tunnel).Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
>>You will see a nicely executed FOOSH (fall on outstretched hand) with a roll. No human or dog injuries>>
Yikes! I am glad you were not hurt! Ginger was trying to help you up!
The lead outs are going really well, she is reading the lines perfectly! The one detail to add on all the different types is to be heading more to 3. On the blinds, you can be lateral on the line the whole time, so before she even lands from 1 she will see your lateral motion heading to 3. That will set up and even better turn. And if you can lead out a little more, you will be able tp get the crosses started before she takes off for 3 which will help too.
For the FCs, you will definitely want to be closer to 3 when you start them because they take longer to finish than the blinds 🙂 If you are too close to 2, the rotation of the FC will indicate a straight line for too long, so being closer to 3 will help her see the cues soon. Same with the throwback at the very end – be right at jump 3 for that so se cam use your position to drive directly towards.
For the lead out pushes – your position on the lead out should be in the center of the bar of 2, but be fully rotated so your feet and upper body are facing 3 before you release. You were tending to rotate and release in one motion, which does indicate a straight line before the turn. You might not have full been trusting her stay, so you can rotate then throw a reward back, so she doesn’t release on your rotation into position.
Looking at the teeter reps – she sure is motivated for the food, especially the meatballs! But she is not yet fully convinced she loves the noise and motion of the teeter, so take a less-is-more approach for these games: rather than 8 or 10 reps of the same thing for smaller bits of the reward, do only 2 maybe 3 reps for HUGE rewards then be done. Leave her wanting more! This will develop more drive to the end of the board and will also stop the session before she notices the movement or noise more, and before there is too much repetition.
On the bang game, she was more confident so you can add a target so she gets into target position – are you planning a 2on, 2off for her, or a 4on position? That determines the target placement.
She really loved the meatballs for the mountain climber, but we can set this up so that she drives to the top more and doesn’t slow down
Put a giant chunk of meatball at the top, and help her to get on straight each time (helping her turn around seemed more comfortable than lifting her off). Do maybe 2 reps of that for big chunks, then don’t do anything else on the teeter 🙂 You did several as the mountain climber then switched to the full teeter, and she slowed down on each full teeter (looking for the pivot and waiting for the noise – it is a noisy teeter for sure!) She kept doing it because the meatballs were so motivating, but you will find that you will get more confidence and speed across the board by doing very few reps for those meatballs 🙂 and a gradual progression to adding tip.Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work here! I think the hardest part was the stay… with the toy as the moving target, I think she movement of the toy has been paired with the release too much so she thinks the moving *is* the release. That was causing a bit of confusion on the lead out and that can change the jumping, so 2 ideas for you:
– with the ladder and accordion grids, stick to a stationary toy on the ground so you can make the release really isolated from any movement.
– separately, on the flat and one jump, do some stay sessions where she holds the stay while you put the toy down, begin to move it, then a few steps later add the verbal release.Doing these separately will be good because then she only has to process 1 thing: the grid, or the stay release when the toy is moving.
The jumping is going well, she is actively sorting out her striding as the 3rd jump moves further away. You can start to work up to that 3rd jump being 12 feet away then 15 feet away, so she can see realistic stride distances (and eventually 18 feet away, 20 feet, etc).
Because this involves a decent amount of jumping and she is young, you can take the grid out once or twice a week. The stay work can be done more regularly because it is a lot less jumping.
Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
The lead out game looks great! The course trend for this skill has basically evolved into more of a dog-training skill than a handling skill – meaning, we leave the dog in front of the jump we want them to take and we go basically anywhere to release them to it (I am seeing a lot of that on the WTT courses!)
So yes, your arm can be a little lower and you can direct the motion more to the takeoff spot (whether you are on the takeoff side or landing side). But also, it is good to get her to take the jump from any angle and with you anywhere 🙂 Since she did so well here and you already started adding angles, you can continue to add more angles. Keep adding the various slices and also instead of her facing towards you on the slice, you can start gently angling her so she is facing away from you on the slice.
If she is on your right side: the jump is at 12 on a clock and when she is facing straight, she is at 6 on the clock. The angles you added were in the 5 and 4 on the clock direction. So you can now also add the 7 and 8 on the clock direction. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Her only question was at 1:27 on the throwback, so you can look more at landing there and less at her, while throwing the reward to he landing spot as you move away to help her come around the wing and not back jump.
You can also add more distance between jumps (but with her on easier angles so we are not hitting her with a double whammy of challenge 🙂
On the backside video: She did really well with you n the line to where the wing and bar meet! You can start to inch over to get further across the bar – the parallel line motion and finding the sweet pot of where your dog-side arm should be will be on tap when you add that. I think you can also run more, as that forward motion will help propel her up the line.
The countermotion looked really strong too, and it will help with the throwback question she had in the lead out video. She is just about ready to have the backside cue and countermotion exit get put together 🙂
>>I tried flipping the loop to the side of doing it 180 with the loop on top and she seemed to like that better. I’ll have to get video of it and see if I’m imagining things or not.>>
That is clever! I know lots of small dogs who don’t love things going over their heads (or is it dogs with more coats, because maybe their fur got caught?) But having a sideways approach is smart!!!Nice work here :)
TracyHi!
The rocking horse game went well! You definitely showed the different types of turns: throwback at the beginning, followed by lap turns after :29. To help make the lap turns easier, you can send to the other wing from further away (you can sue your wrap verbal rather than a go verbal on those) so you don’t have to run backwards at all – then you can wait with your hand presented to him until he almost arrives at it – then step back with your arm & leg. Waiting til he was almost at your hand made for great lap turns! When you were a bit early, stepping back before he got to your hand like at :36 or 1:12, he read it as a throwback because how it rotates you to the wing. Good boy!
For the tandems, where you were moving forward then turning him away, you can clarify the hand cues (it is a hand-cue-heavy behavior :)) When you are only using dog-side arm, it looks a lot like a regular send around the wing – that meant you had to pull away a little more like at 2:07.
I think adding the outside hand will help him, making it visible to both draw him in and turn him away (like at 2:30 when the outside arm appeared he turned away really easily).The zig zags are going well too! It really locked in at about 3:02 when you were using your feet a lot more – that is when he reads it best when he needs to push away and you are far up the line. So keep using the feet on those cues! He was also reading it when you were leaning into it, but not as consistently as when you also used your feet 🙂
Rear crosses are going really well! Your cues are super clear so he was able to get them and he had no trouble reading the difference with the Go lines too. Yay!!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
Thanks for the photo/drawing! Yes, it is totally mart to visualize a bar instead of just wings.
Your bar placement on 7 and 8 are where I would put bars here. For the 1/4 and 2/5 wings, I would put the bars on the side edges of the wing so when he exits the 3 tunnel, for example, he can would be able to see a bar like it is the front side of a jump. The 1/4 bar would be parallel to the 7 bar (and parallel to the tunnel) and same with the 2/5 bar – parallel to the tunnel, to create a 180 with the 1/4 bar. Let me know if that makes sense!
>I think a tandem turn, when the dog crosses my path is what I’ve called in-in with past dogs. Not sure if that’s the best name longer term. I’m not sure the dog would generalize that behavior to a “switch” at a distance in an ASCA gamble.>>
The tandem turn on 7 is definitely something that has a lot of names LOL!!! I agree with your definition that the dogs have to come in between us and the jump (you noted it as crossing in front of you). The typical use of terminology lately is this:
– a tandem turn can be on the front of the bar (if you moved your bar at 7 to be perpendicular to the tunnel instead of parallel to it) and or a threadle to the ‘inside’ of the wing or jump (which is what you have drawn here). And the main element of the tandem turn is that the handler also turns the new direction, very rear cross-ish, which is what is happening here at 7-8. And when used on the threadle side of a jump, the tandem is very similar to a threadle wrap (and that is the verbal that best suits the behavior when it is on the threadle side or backside of a jump.
– An ‘in in’ is commonly used as a threadle slice where the dog comes to the side of 7 you drew here (in between you and the wing/bar) and the main differences between that and a tandem are that an in in is never on the front side of the jump, and the handler continues going straight (does not change direction)
>>I’m not sure the dog would generalize that behavior to a “switch” at a distance in an ASCA gamble.>>
The switch behavior is a tandem turn as well, and always on the front side of a jump, turning away from the handler. I have never seen it on the backside of a jump in the gamblers scenario – mainly because you won’t see backsides in ASCA 🙂 and also because the threadle wrap cues have replaced it in the backside version of it. So yes, you can totally use it as a switch cue!
Since distance work and gamblers are on your radar, an idea to consider:
– On a tandem turn where the dog is coming right back to the line near the handler, I use regular directionals like left, right, wraps, etc.
– On a tandem turn where the dog needs to propel away into a distance line or a layering line, I use switch followed by the obstacle name. That basically tells the dog to accelerate away and layer or do a big distance thing, and to ignore my position until further notice LOL!Let me know what you think. Fingers crossed for good weather ahead!
Tracy
Hi!
Thanks for the full session video – I agree that it was generally a good session. Yes, it can be shorter (we can make some things more efficient which will also be less frustrating) but having to move the jump does take up time, so these jumping games often take a little longer. A couple of ideas:
>>I had to modify the game since Mason doesn’t have a stay.
Before doing much more of the games that need to be modified because he doesn’t have a stay yet, you can prioritize working on a stay in front of a jump. It can be a stay on a Cato board or on the flat, but that skill can skip to the front of the line 🙂 It is much much easier to train skills and more efficient/less frustrating if you have a stay behavior that you can use and that he understands.
And you can also use a send to a ‘station’ for a stay in between reps and to reset more cleanly. The hardest part of this session was the in-between moments, that is where the failures and frustrations were.
>>Everything went to plan except that I wasn’t expecting Mason to keep trying to take the jumps as we made our way to the start line. >>
After showing him the MM or getting rewarded, he didn’t really know what was expected as you moved him back to the start. He was offering jumps (because motion near jumps is a valid cue for taking jumps) or jumping around near you – there was not a lot of info or understanding so you got a lot of behavior, which can tip over into frustration if nothing is rewarded or clear, or he is told it is incorrect.
So, one option after the reward is to send to a station so you can move the jump, then go back to the start, then call him to you. That is super clear and easy to reward.
Another option is to tug with him or do tricks for cookies on the way back, so he knows what to do and isn’t guessing.
>>I also had some trouble getting Mason to sit in the perfect spot.>>
The line up was also challenging because when you had him on your side and stepped forward with your leg or moved your arm forward… that also looks like a cue to take the jumps. So he did. Then it was wrong… frustration starts to bubble up. You can line him up cleanly by calling him to you with a cookie lure to start, bringing him into your side with a small hand movement and no leg movement. Or you can be facing him, with you on he other side of jump 1, so you can get him into a good position. It doesn’t have to be perfect, just relatively close to the jump. You can also have him on leash for that, if it clarifies the set up – the key will be that it doesn’t potentially look like a cue to take the jump. Or tugging at your side
>>I practiced this first in the hallway earlier in the day without jumps so that he would have an idea of what I was expecting from him when we went outside.>>
The difference between the hallways session and the jump session is probably that the movement in front of a jump also looks like a jump cue, so there were a lot of errors and resets. And what happens with those moments is that while the 5 jump reps might have been rewarded, there were enough errors during the in-between moments that the overall rate of success drops. That is where you might be seeing frustration in training: the skill rate of reinforcement might be high (100% here on the jumping reps) but if there are a bunch of failures on adjunct behavior, the rate of success can drop a lot and you will see fallout from that.
>>I usually give him a couple clicks of the MM for each rep since the treats that work well in it are pretty low value. I can see now though that the uncertainty about how many rewards there will be could also cause some frustration. >
You can do one MM click then a toy throw, or recall back to you for better treats. I think that waiting to see if the MM will dispense more treats might create an unpredictability that is not helping. So you can create a bit of a loop there: MM for cookies then back to you for a toy or more cookies.
The jumping itself is going well. I agree that he is still working out his mechanics on jump 3, but that is probably because he is processing driving ahead of you to the stationary MM – both of which tend to promote collection but the grid is asking for more extension. Getting a stay going will help, so you can be out at the reward or using the moving target.
>>The striding seemed ok to me and the bars stayed up (8 inches, moving to 10 inches on May 1st).>>
Don’t raise the bar until you have a stay 🙂 He needs to have handler position that supports the line when the bar is raised (which supports the case for a stay) and also, being able to raise the bar will be a reward for you, for prioritizing the stay behavior 🙂
>>Mason didn’t want to walk by the jumps which were still set up.
>> he flopped over onto his back and wouldn’t continue walking.
>> I really don’t know what to make of this. He has done this many times over the past few months. >>Since it is something that is happening regularly, a couple of questions:
– what is your interaction with him when he is in the yard and near the equipment, during a session before you are ready to train, or when you are not planning on training?
– do you ever just ignore the behavior, or do you lure him out of it with a cookie or interaction?
– has he ever gone to the equipment by himself when it is in the yard, not during a training session? If so, what did you do in that moment?>>he definitely seems to feel pressure when he’s near the obstacles, even if we aren’t doing any training.>>
I don’t know enough about the scenario to know why it is happening, but because there is a rehearsal of this pretty regularly, the first step is to stop the rehearsal by either putting away the equipment when you aren’t using it, or have him in a different part of the yard when the equipment is present. It is a little more labor-intensive but worth it to shift the behavior.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
