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Hi! Thanks for the info!!!
>>She can do pattern games around people, but it is super difficult. She’s a walmart greeter.
This is hugely helpful info and great feedback from the dog (especially since she can’t speak English LOL!!!)
You will need to get the pattern games to be much easier for her around people. There is some sort of pressure or anxiety she feels in NOT being able to freely interact or move away from them. We dn’t know exactly why, but we do know the pattern games will help.
So, separately from running courses, work the back-and-forth and up-and-down game at a distance away from people where she can re-engage almost immediately. It might take a bit of work to find that distance! 15 feet? 20 feet? 100 feet? And that is your starting point, whatever that distance is. Then you can ping pong your way into getting closer to the people for a couple of reps, then further from them, and closer, then further, until you can walk through a crowd of people with her being able to immediately re-engage after a cookie and ignore them. This might take a few sessions, so no worries if it doesn’t happen immediately.
You can also take little field trips to be around people and play these games – a park, or Petsmart, or anywhere you can be around people and also control the distance away from them you are.
What type of treats are you using with her?
>> On our first run, I don’t have her attention at all. She’s, as of late, completely distracted with people and the environment. >>
For her runs in class: you can ask her if she is ready at the start line by, still on leash, doing a quick pattern game (up and down, back and forth, whichever one you think she prefers. If she has really low latency and immediately re-engages after a treat? You are probably fine to run the sequence 🙂
If she has high latency (slower to re-engage) or no latency (does not re-engage) or can’t eat… don’t run the sequence from that starting point.
Instead, try moving further into the ring and start in the middle, further from the challenge of the people/dogs nearby and see if that is better (a quick pattern game there can giv eyou insight as well) . You can start by just doing a ready-set-go into a tunnel 🙂 and if something goes wrong in the handling, don’t stop, don’t fix, don’t mark it, just keep going. She is learning to regulate her arousal and handler errors can throw that off if you stop or fix.
>> Just a thought – This may be happening more since our class is now at dusk.
Ah, that is an excellent insight – things look different at dusk, and the body acts different at dusk!
>>So, I call her back and we pick up at whatever obstacle we’re standing near.
Try this: rather than call her back, just keep handling your invisible dog and finish the sequence and reward your invisible dog. We have had enormous success with hunting dogs/bird dogs by doing this – it relieves the pressure they might be feeling, keeps it fun, and they come back quickly and then stop leaving in the first place. The “keep going, no stopping no matter what” is hard at first for us humans 🙂 but TOTALLY worthwhile.
>> If it happens a couple of more times, we leave and go for a walk. It is very frustrating and I try to keep my happy face on. It gets better on subsequent runs and she can play games at the start.>>
If you try the suggestions above, you will see it happening less and less 🙂 Try it and keep me posted! You are a lovely handler so you don’t really need the handling practice – that is why we can devote the energy to getting the engagement.
>>Her feral animal behavior – I think it happens most often when I’m leashing or unleashing and/or asking her to get IN or OUT of her crate or xpen. LOTS of jumping up to bite or mouth>>
Ah, overarousal, maybe in anticipation of the challenge of what is coming next or residual arousal from what just happened – that shifts her into an overaroused velociraptor state. We will be working on decompression skills starting on Monday and that will REALLY help! For now, give her something else to do that will decompress her. Some dogs like to carry something in their mouth in this situation (my teenage whippet carries a toy or a shoe LOL, my terrier carries a bully stick). Some dogs do better with a snuffle mat or a lickimat or a stuff kong or a scatter of treats. What does she like? We can start to use that as a way to get rid of the velociraptor behavior 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>There are a few trials in the next two months at better facilities.
Perfect!!
>> But, until I feel she can line up in class it’s probably not worth entering her. She isn’t better with a toy in my hand. Last night in class she immediately starts grabbing grass as we walk towards the first jump..>>
This indicates arousal state shifts, attentional state shifting, etc. All TOTALLY normal for the start line.
One of the best ways to work through it is to take the start line out of it for a bit, in challenging situations. I personally never ask my dogs for start line stays or positions in their first NFC runs. I do a little collar hold and ready-set-go! Then we go have a great time running sequences for a toy. That sets the tone of relaxed, happy, fun in the ring… which in turn makes getting the start line 1000 times easier when I do ask for it. It really turns the pressure off, especially for dogs that need to move when they are aroused. The dog will tell me when they are ready for start line stays because they generally start offering it when I take the leash off in class or in my NFC runs.
The start line is one of the absolute hardest things and can really poison the trial environment, so why add it if it is not ready? We can do soooo much to help the dogs without stressing them or ourselves over lineup or stay 🙂 It is a behavior that is as challenging as a running dog walk or weave poles, maybe more challenging – and no one has their dogs do running dog walk work or weave poles as the very first thing in a trial, or as the indicator or readiness to do other stuff in the trial ring LOL! Getting the trial environment to be a fun optimal arousal place is more important than the harder skills, which are like puzzle pieces that can be added in later.
The stay gets pretty easy when all the other elements are in place and the trial ring has been established as a good place to be.
>> I don’t think the position matters as she isn’t listening to cues. Just scanning the environment>>
It is not that she isn’t listening… it is that she cannot process the cues in that context. So ask for something else rather than emphasize cues she can’t process. And letting her just stand can relieve a lot of the pressure. And also letting the dog move (by not asking for a stay, just getting going) can REALLY help to relieve th pressure of the moment.
And no, it does not ruin the stay 🙂 It strengthens the stay behavior!
>> Of interest, if I back off and then tried to set her up but at a further distance from the first jump she did better. So, I’ll try that next time on the first attempt.>>
Definitely good to know and try!
>> I am also playing around with a spin at my side as we get close. She’s clearly feeling pressure in the approach and line up. Once she sat, she did very well. She doesn’t vulture, lean forward etc on the start line. We did pattern games on the side while the dog before her ran plus a quick snuffle.>>
Starting on Monday, we add the arousal states and attentional states into the mix to begin getting a bigger picture of what she needs. What you are likely seeing is overarousal which will shift the dog into the divided attentional state.
>>Here’s back and forth outside a dog park. As I’m getting ready to start a lady lets her pug pull her towards us as she thought it would be great to let her dog say hi.>>
Of course it would be great – NOT! LOL!
The pattern game looked great! You can tell by her movement and muscle tone here that she was aroused, but latency of re-engagement also indicates that the environment was stimulating but not that challenging for her.Next steps for this game and for up-and-down and volume dial: do it in front of a jump and in front of a tunnel, just a few feet away. Start at home and if that goes well, you can move it to the training facility.
Great job here! Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
Fantastic to see you back on your feet!!! YAY!!!! Both sessions here are looking good – the girl is SPICY and I support that LOL!! She is getting her grown up body and maturing really well! Looks like she is built like a smaller version of Elektra? Can’t wait to see her in person!
First up, grids:
The grid is looking good – she has quick feet!!!! I can’t see everything with the video from the back but her form looks generally fine so we can move to the next step. I say “generally” because she is not fully focused forward on the reward target with you a bit parallel especially when you are stationary or not moving til after the release so she is doing a bit of a zigzag toward you then back out to the toy. No worries, we fix that in the next step.
Also, keep working on the tight sit, tight down to convince her back legs to be tight to her and not a little splayed. It is something to revisit on a small platform like you’ve done before, just keep it in the rotation for a couple of minutes 3 or 4 times a week.
So definitely go to the next steps by adding the moving target so you are dragging the toy forward as she is doing the grid. That will keep her with the head down form and focusing on the line while adding the arousal of handler motion. A toy she likes attached to a long leash will be easy to drag without you needing to bend over (it is in the pre-game and I think you did it a while back, so no we add it to the grid). Start by releasing her then beginning to drag the toy, then see if she can let you be dragging the toy before you release her (this is harder, so slooooow dragging will help protecct the stay).
Because the zig zag games in the other weeks involve handler rotation, skip those for now and move to the ladder grid that we added last week. That is the 3 jump grid and start it with a moving target. We will come back to the zig zags when your PT says your knees can go side to side.
She did great with finding the jump – very happy with that! She was spicy and didn’t even mind running into the barrel LOL! I think you were using your wrap verbals, and you can add you GO verbal for the jump because she is moving in extension. You can add more distance between the barrel and jump too!
Suggestions for the next session:
You can move the barrel to a position where you can send her around it and then you can move straight past the wing of the jump and not get caught on the bar. If you get caught behind the bar of the jump or end up moving to the center of the bar and she gets rewarded for going straight, she will be confused when you add rear crosses. And since you can move but can’t run yet, you can send her around the wing the other direction as a post turn so she exits on a straight line to the jump (no FC needed if you will end up not being able to get straight past the wing).>>She is jumping pretty high. I think you placement instead of throwing the toy may be good for her.>>
Yes! We have 3 options to help her out with Operation Head Down over the bar to get more efficient jumping (with the Pizzas, it is all about head down and the rest sorts itself out nicely).
Option 1: When training alone like you did here, you can TOTALLY place the reward out past the jump. And it is a great impulse control game to see if she can wrap the barrel and THEN go to the jump without skipping the barrel LOL!
Option 2: Also, when training alone and adding the different cues (backside, rear, etc), you won’t want the toy placed on the straight line because you will want her to read the cues. In that scenario, you can throw the reward a lot sooner, as soon as she looks forward to the line. On this clip, you were waiting to throw til she was between the uprights, so she was lifting her head. You will get the better form if you throw it as soon as she looks at the jump after rounding the barrel (and she was looking at it pretty immediately! Super girl!!!)
Option 3, since you have terrific trainers who can help you: give them a toy attached to a long line, like the moving target. And as soon as she looks ahead to the jump, then can plop it down on the line and start to drag it, so she can chase it and grab it and leave you in the dust 🙂 I am sure she loves plenty of your Level Up peeps enough that she will do this for them 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
She was a super good girl here and gave us EXCELLENT feedback. Since the dogs can’t speak English 🙂 they provide feedback in other ways 🙂
>> Also, I’m not 100% sure I got the exact angles correct>>
No worries! The exact angles and the sequences themselves are really not that important 🙂 Based on what Pizzazz said here, we are going to prioritize engagement and motivational rewards, and
deprioritize running the sequence cleanly. When we have answered her questions about engagement, thesequences will be easy peasy.A couple of things I see in the videos, watching her and tryint to translate what she is saying:
Using the leash in training was not hard for her, so good job doing it and keep bringing her into training on the leash.
She definitely gave feedback that passing anything that is visual “clutter” is VERY hard, both at Amy’s house and at your house. The hard part for her was passing the treees/dog walk/stuff/people at Amy’s and she also had a bit of a hard time passing the house/weaves at your house (her nose was down and she slowed down on that section of the course in those clips). That is terrific feedback from her, so we will take it and make adjustments. Plus, she struggles with this in trials too, based on the trial videos. So a couple of ideas:
– get your pattern games (back & forth, up and down) to be super easy for her at home and in different places. Then work your pattern games near any potential distraction (people, stuff along the sides, etc) before attempting to sequence near any of that potential distraction. She will clearly communicate if she is ready to sequence or not by how quickly she is able to re-engage after each treat. If she can re-engage immediately (remember, you are waiting for her to offer it and not calling her), then you can try the sequence. If she cannot re-engage immediately, then do not attempt the sequence and move further away to keep working the patterns. By immediately, I mean within a second.
– If you do run the sequence – reward her when she passes the distraction area without leaving to check it out. Remember, we don’t really need to worry about finishing the sequence, we need to pump up her confidence in the environment.
– if you running a sequence and something goes wrong in the handling… ignore the error and keep running like everything was perfect. Errors in sequences are handler errors, and if we react and stop, that can be very deflating to the dogs who are working to figure us out LOL!
For example, on the 2nd video, at 1:57 the RC handling was not as good as it was in the first run so she back jumped. That was human error, the info was late. You stopped and she deflated, and took off. So do not stop! Keep running and reward, then fix the handling error on the next rep. Stopping or talking indicates to the dog that it was a dog error and can be quite punishing for the dog… stayng in motion affirms their response (because the dogs are always correct in reading us) and will help a lot with engagement. Same for if you forget a sequence – doesn’t matter if you are doing the numbered course or not, just keep handling and rewarding 🙂 If you stop or talk to people, she deflates.– she liked the tricks for treats at the start of each run! Yay! Two small suggestions: rather than hand her the treat with you both standing still, run a few steps to let her chase your cookie hand, then give it to her. That will get even more engagement!
Also, give her a second or two after a trick before you cue the first jump. You were doing a couple of spins then taking off, and she was always surprised (me too LOL!) and a little off balance. So do the spins, give her a treat, count to 2…. then start. You will gt even more speed and engagement.
– She gave definite feedback that the toy was not motivating or reinforcing at Amy’s house. Good info, thanks Pizzazz! It was all about the food like Amy suggested, and that is fine. Food is very motivating! You can use food-based toys like lotus balls and treat huggersthe toy is not motivating in this environment so we need to sort that out. And be on the lookout for that feedback – if you present or throw a toy and she does not instantly dive on it… switch to something more motivating like food. Having a really motivating thing wil help her in the environment. Eventually the toy might be motivating too, or not – it is good either way 🙂
– Also, set a timer for being in the ring… 2 minutes total. Being out there for 6 minutes on the first sequence was too long and by 3 minutes or so, she was toast. I like to do the math – 6 minutes is 360 seconds, which is about 14 jumpers runs. Eek! No one wants to do 14 jumpers runs in a row LOL! And on the 2nd video, it was 3.5 minutes, still a bit too long. So if the timer goes off at 2 minutes and you haven’t run the sequence cleanly yet? No worries! Take a break anyway and try it again later.
>. I send her and think she’s committed then turn. That’s when I lose connection and she takes off for something more interesting. I’ve GOT to take extra precautions at the beginning of any sequence. Videos are so important to see these connection faux pas.>>
Yes, she really took off in the last video. It is possible that there is more too it than a simple connection issue – there is a lot of pressure on the start line, so we can back off the pressure. Extra precautions might mean extra pressure, so working on the other tools and not worrying about the sequence as much will help. Also on that last video, it looks like something caught her attention and she took off in prey drive. The over-arousal from pressure on the start line can contribute to it (or maybe the session was too long?), but it will be safer to not have her off leash near the street in case this happens.
Great job here to both of you! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! He also looked good here!!
First rep here went very well! Super connected and fast fast fast! His commitment looked great and he was turning really well on jump 3!! Since there is so much jumping involved and looks like the bars are at 20” here, take a less-is-more approach… if you and he nail it on the first rep, no need to try it again 🙂 You can move to the next sequence. Repetition is not needed here and you can get more done while saving his body by limiting the reps 🙂
Great job here!!!
TracyHi! Stretching it out really gives him the feel of a bigger course, and he did great!
On this sequence:
If something goes wrong, keep going 🙂 So when he didn’t take the jump at :32 rather than stop and reward, just carry on and finish the sequence – fix the refusal on the next rep. That will be less deflating for him, and also it won’t accidentally cause him to get sticky by getting rewards for NOT taking the jump.O negate first rep, you went from fast into slamming on the brakes a bit 🙂 so he didn’t take the jump. The 2nd rep was really strong because you decelerated into the turn, which totally got the commitment. Yay!
But then… connect on the exit of the cross : )When he landed at 1:02 he could only see your back so he didn’t know which side to be on.
You got the connection at 1:36 but t needs to be immediate after the FC like you did at 2:29 – that was terrific!!!!
On the go on the ending line – the verbal was good but your physical cue was supporting a different lien (1:44) so he questioned if he should continue straight. The left arm coming up high is what turned you away from the ending line, so keep your arm down and run closer to the wings of the jumps to get the line nice and straight like you did at 2:37.
I would have ended the session there – you got all of your handling in, he was great – no need to keep doing reps. Because he is jumping, you will want to limit the number or reps he does. Plus, after 4 or 5 reps on the course, he knows the sequence pretty much and is probably not reading the handling anymore. So, make 4 the magic number for sequences – just do 4 runs, with a little bit of a longer break in between, and then move to something else.
Great job!
TracyHi!
He was getting better at NOT looking at you and looking at the cone after the box, which is what we want. YAY!!
So always reward after cone #2, rather than go back to the box, otherwise he starts looking at you. The more unpredictable it became in terms of where the reward would come, the more he looked at you. Make it a chain: cone, box, cone, reward. You can be moving but you don’t need to be using wrap cues or anything special with handling because to transfer it to the frame, we want to get him really independent,
I think the session went a bit too long – he was getting tired and looking at you more when he is tired. In your next session, do a total of 5 reps of cone-box-cone-reward, then be finished and give him a break. That can also really help him look forward and not look at you.
When he can go 2 entire sessions of this game without looking at you? It is time to put it on a lowered a-frame where we repeat the process of cone-box-cone, but now the frame is under the box 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi!
I know you didn’t end up getting the sequence done perfectly, but I think this was a really strong session of hashing out the teamwork! LOTS of good stuff here and some ideas for smoothing it out at the bottom. Remember – handling young fast dogs will NOT look smooth at first. It will take us a while to figure it out and that is great, because the end result will be maintaining the speed and engagement while also getting gorgeous lines.
>>I am not sure if this is what you meant or not, but I remembered to face the bar more like we did in strike a pose and that seemed to work for jump 2 and then she got 3. Was that what you meant?>>
Yes! That looked lovely at the beginning!!The turn on 3 has turned out to be REALLY hard for everyone in this class. I will be adding more of this “soft turn” stuff for these dogs.
You were working the turn on 3 and had a bit of a goldilocks process: the first run was not enough of a turn cue, the 2nd run was too much turn cue where you stopped moving entirely at :16 – the timing of starting the cue was great, but keep moving there 🙂
Third run to 3? NAILED IT! You got the timing and kept moving at :30, so she got a collection stride and made the turn at :32. Now, the next step is to turn a bit more and then reward her for taking the next jump – she got the turn on 3 but went past 4 as you were accelerating and converging into the 4-5 line trying to get the rear cross.
So I think the convergence is really hard for her to read and stay on the line, she pushes out and looks at you. More on that below.
At :40, you never turned to 5 and just ran to the tunnel so she was correct, good girl – you got it at :50 but with a little too much shoulder turn. The next rep was much better and she got the RC!
After the tunnel, you were excited and she was excited so you were both running straight and fast so she didn’t take the jump 🙂 You can give her more connection and be more specific about “take the jump!” And she will 🙂
>>I think I am going to stop on this sequence. I am not sure how to get to where I need to and to give her the cues she needs so hopefully the other sequences will be easier for us.>>
Actually, give this sequence another session – not because I are if you run it perfectly or not, because that isn’t the point 🙂 I think it is worth another session because it has revealed some important things to break down and work on.
So, a game plan for you to show her the different concepts that she has questions about here:
You’ve already got the 1-2-3 line. So start at 3 and get 3-4-5 as a dog on left, straight line (don’t worry about the RC to the tunnel for now – the RC will be easy when we get the 3-4-5 line). So send to 3 then turn your shoulders straight and job down the line with connection, rewarding for taking the 4 jump in particular, then the 5 jump.
When she has that, you can do 1-2-3-4-5, no rear cross to the tunnel. If she says “got it!” Then you can add the convergence on the RC, but no worries if we save the RC for a different sequence because I know she understands RCs. The mission here is to get her on the lines, at high speed.
The 2nd part of the session can be the ‘speed circle’ element of 5-6-7-8. Be sure the jumps are on relatively obvious lines, start with her on your right at 5, and just jog along the 5-6-7-8 line. Do you remember the lazy game we did over the summer? Think of it as the fast version of the lazy game 🙂 And you can have Brad or Deb or anyone drop the toy on the line for you when she takes the jump. Or, place it in advance, so it is between 7-8 for example.
When she has the lightbulb moment of getting on the lines with all the speed, everything is going to be MUCH easier! So keep thinking of it as presenting and training concepts, and no worries if the sequences are not perfect or as numbered 🙂
Great job!! Let me know what you think of the game plan :) Tracy
Hi!
>>Been working on the patterns and volume dial in different places. Did those at a scent work seminar over the weekend. She was able to tug with me there. I think it helped to get her working straight away off of the start line.>>
That is great!
>>Tried some tugging at agility class and games. I believe she is too stressed at the start line since people are less than 10′ from the first obstacle. Seems to be a lot of pressure for her. >>
Yes, that is a lot of pressure and a lot of Viszlas do NOT love that pressure. So having the people move away a little was smart! And, was she able to play pattern games with all the people around? For the next class, definitely bring your pattern games with yummy food closer to the people, and to the start line if people are close. That can help her process the pressure of people being nearby – try to start close to them, but as far away as needed for her to be able to eat the treats and re-engage with you pretty quickly (less than 2 seconds after each cookie toss would be great!)
>>She is unable to do much in that situation and our first run is a dumpster fire. We just aren’t connected and she freelances after 4-6 obstacles, but returns when I call her. >>
In that situation, you can make the very beginning of the course easy, reward her, then carry on. The other thing that is important: if something goes wrong, especially when there are distractions or pressure in the environment: just keep going no matter what. She misses a jump? Keep going 🙂 She ends up on a different line or off course? Keep going , even if you have to make it up for a moment to get back on course 🙂 As long as she is trying *something*, juts keep going. That helps relieve the pressure (especially if your handling is not perfect) and will help her feel more relaxed 🙂 You will see less free styling when you support her line in the pressure and just keep going.
>>Lately, her overall behavior seems to have reverted back to some of our worse puppy times – a velociraptor that cannot be calmed. She tries but the mind and body are possessed by evil spirits.>>
I can relate to the velociraptor! Tell me more specifics on this: when does it happen? Got video? What is she doing specifically? I have lots of ideas to help reform velociraptors. Usually it is because the dog is aroused and frustrated.
Keep me posted!!
TracyGood morning!
This was a really strong session! Great information from him about what he needs to see on course!
Volume dial looks good – he did well with his tricks! With the food as reward, move it more like a toy: instead of handing it to him with both of you standing still, have him chase your hand for it, and you can even run a couple of steps for him to chase your hand after the trick. That will be very toy-like!
>>Baxter can do hand touches but we are working on spins and circles as I haven’t really taught those yet, so these are being lured,>>
Using a hand signal as a lure is perfectly fine, and even doing it with food in your hand is fine! The action is what achieves are goal, we don’t need these tricks to be on a verbal only.
>>I was happy with his enthusiasm today as sometimes he’s just blah. Early in the morning, cool and he hasn’t done anything else yet today. Also possibly the volume games at the beginning. Yay.>>
Yes! He was feeling great and running fast! All of the factors might have contributed to it and that is great 🙂
First run went really well! He was fast for sure!!! It was just abut perfect. His only question was at :41 where he turned right and you wanted the left wrap. It is a little hard to tell from the camera angle, but it looks like you were running a bit too much to the center of the bar of 3 and then as you decelerated he read it as a rear cross wrap. That is legit and you did 1000% the right thing to note it in your mind but keep going. The rest looked great!
Nice rear cross on the jump before the tunnel!!!
On the 2nd run – be sure that he is ready and settled before you start the sequence. It looks like you kinda took off on his so he ticked bar 2!
And he was very responsive to your handling on 3 again… it was a bit of a Goldilocks moment where you had too much pressure on run 1, and here on run 2 you didn’t have enough line to the jump and pulled him off LOL!! Yet 1:23, you were turning more to avoid any accidental RC info and pulled him off the jump, so he read it as a threadle wrap. Good boy, that actually is what a threadle wrap would look like! So, keep going on that one too 🙂 No need to fix anything in the moment because Baxter is reading things correctly 🙂
The 3rd run was the just right run! You had the line to 3 looking really good by running to the right turn wing (not too much pressure, not too pulling him off) and he had zero questions about where to go. Super!
Last run – this one had a little too much pull off of jump 3 at 3:43 and he came off the line (correctly, again, because you turned away from 3 before he looked at it). This is where it is important to keep going – he was still moving and you stopped then walked away so at 3:52 he presses the “Bullsh*t Button” and freezes: “Mom, that was your fault not mine, why did you stop and walk away?” He does come back and keep going but you can see how you need to run to the right turn wing of 3 to get the commitment. So if he doesn’t commit or turns the wrong way, do what you did on the first run (keep going like it was right, because it was 🙂 ) so he never presses the “Bullsh*t Button” 😂
You did work the line to 3 on that last run and he found it and then you could get up the line with the cross and yes – hooray for following the handling and NOT taking the off course!!!
>>Based on your commentary yesterday I will try to throw a toy on his path between jumps on occasion instead of waiting till the end. Correct?>>
Yes, that is correct – more reward on the line, less looking at the momma. Watching this video, the only place he looked at you a lot was when you were saying “yes” and “good” like between 1:29 and 1:32. That is when he was looking at you and not the line.
When you give info like the obstacle name or a directional, he is on the line and doesn’t look at you 🙂
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I admit I cried a bit.. I was so sad
It is sad! Boooo! But we will work out a plan, no worries.
We will keep building a plan, new games coming on Monday. You can jot things down that stand out and we can be ready for when you are back on your feet.
Tracy
About the bars:
I highly recommend that you do NOT punish bars, for two reasons:
– he is managing a lot in terms of processing and speed and arousal and if your cue is wrong or weird (because we are human), he is likely not going to be able to always cover you and keep the bar up, especially at this age. So if a bar goes down, unless you can see the *exact specific mechanic* that caused it and you are willing to wager $1000 that your handling was very clear (I am never willing to wager that my handling is very clear LOL!!!), just mentally note it but carry on. Then look at the video to see what happened.
– punishment needs to give feedback about the precise thing that he did that caused the bar to drop… which is something agility handlers are really NOT good at LOL!!! What happens is by the time we process that a bar in down, the dog is long past the moment of whatever mechanics or choice called it, so the feedback doesn’t make sense. That makes us humans pretty unpredictable and creates a lot of anxiety/arousal/frustration.
So even if he gets a cookie, the marking and stopping will skew the arousal in directions we do not want (over-arousal) and doesn’t help the processing that we need to get around the course.
let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi!
On this sequence – line him up on a slice facing 2 rather than facing the tunnel – that way he is immediately on the correct line and you don’t have to step to jump 1 at all.On this sequence, add a turn cue for 3 starting at landing of 2. you said a quiet right verbal as he was in the air of 3 on the first rep (you were earlier with the verbal on the 2nd rep) and more importantly – you were not moving outta there, so you’re facing straight which cues him to go straight
Then too early on the RC on the first rep, no worries we all do that LOL!
Not moving on the 2nd rep made the RC harder and bar down.Someone in the background asked why the dropped bar was your fault – it was your fault because he didn’t know it was a left turn until he was in the air and turning to his right at 1:19. He tried to save it, but couldn’t. So, we take ownership of it and don’t punish the bar. I am glad you didn’t!
Better RC at 1L47!
Ending line – be moving and turning – when he is exiting the tunnel and looking at the 7 jump you should be turning to 8
But no matter what happens… reward with a toy like it was perfect
You did punish the bar at 2:26… you owe him a cookie because the cue was late so he was already scrambling a bit to catch up and then by the time he saw your movement to the left, he was over the bar. Go give him a makeup cookie and don’t punish bars in the sequences. I know that people will tell you to punish the bar but I urge you to ignore them – bar punishing will cause frustration because he is doing the best he can with the info at hand. He actually appeared to avoid that bar on the next rep and grabbed the tunnel at 2:36 and again at 3:00.
So if they get on you about punishing bars? Tell them to come talk to me 🙂 And I will put the reasons why you don’t want to punish bars below here.
So running the sequence clean is not that important – but developing the teamwork is! If something goes wrong, just roll with it and keep going then reward with a toy right in the moment (rather than on the group off to the side). And if you know what went wrong, try it again. If you are not sure – watch the video 🙂 That way he does fewer reps, but he has a lot more information and support!
And he is definitely processing handling so the hind end use on he jumping form is changing. So for each new sequence, keep the bars at 16 until he is smooth – and separately, practice the grids with you moving and the toy moving 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Here’s where I’m wondering how much to make it more like a trial by bringing him up or aiming to find the top of the curve.>>Good question! Aim for the top of the curve, a nice centered state, not trial-like.
On the sequences – these are new behaviors for him (longer sequences) and he has to process your cues. So, we want him to be in a higher arousal state but NOT trial-like, because that is asking him to process in a slightly over-aroused state, which could lead to errors at this point.Looking at the sequences:
You did the volume dial with food here – be sure to move the food more so it is like a toy otherwise it does not really effectively center his arousal state. And you can totally use a toy as well! In fact, I think I would sequence him with toys in training because it will be very motivating for him (more so than food), and I don’t think it will be too arousing.I think on the sequences you can move more in your handling – go for it! You were being VERY connected but also maybe too connected because it was rotating your upper body back to him, which was inhibiting your running speed. You were walking a bit rather than running, so that actually makes it harder for him.
One important thing is to NOT worry about getting these sequences clean or precise. Just practice going fast, being connected, spitting out the verbals, and seeing what he needs. He doesn’t need to see each sequence more than once or twice in a session.
Also, have a toy with you. You were rewarding a lot with a cookie which might not be as motivating as a toy. Having a toy in your hand will help you really place the toy at the end of a line or after a turn, rather than off to the side of the course.
Remember that we are not trying to avoid arousal or lower arousal… we are making it simulating and fast and fun! So the toy play will be a critical element of that 🙂
On the first sequence:
>>I feel like I’m just late (like the FC) and for sure when he lands really hard >>
I think it was more of a positional question than a timing question – even though you were rotating through the FC, you were going straight past 3 so he was jumping long and turning on the flat.
>>You’ll see one run where he drops a bunch of bars. He does great on grids, but adding my movement ups the challenge for both of us>>
Remember to be moving in the grids and using your moving target! But for the bars down, I think it was not a motion issue for the most part. When he dropped the bar on 1 at :35, I think it was caused by you rushing away to get to the FC, which breaks connection so he started thinking about rushing to get to you.
Then from :42 to :45 when the other bars came down, you can give him more verbals (like a wrap verbal at :42) and then run run run 🙂 On the 6-7 line, you were walking so he was not sure if he should collect or extend (bar down at :44)
Reward him anyway like it was perfect, because the info was confusing and then he will be confused if he doesn’t get rewarded, which can be frustrating.
At 1:30, you are doing the back and forth pattern game and your videographer asked if you should be slower: nope! Not for this – you can toss the next treat as soon as he re-engages. We are not going for prolonged attention, we are going for quick re-engagement. But if he is re-engaging very quickly, you can move to the next thing, no need to do a whole lot of reps.
2nd sequence (lead out push) – I could not see your position on jump 2 (the video only has him in the stay on the first rep) but I think when teaching new handling concepts, keep the bars lower than 20 for the first session – he was not thinking about jumping form on jump 1 and 2, he was reading handling, so a lower bar will help him maintain better form.
He was not sure what you wanted at 2:28 but he did take the jump! So rather than stop… keep going! Roll with it! That will tell him that he is correct (because he was). When you stop and talk to the videographer, he gets confused. I think he did get a cookie eventually there, but I am not convinced that is a reinforcement or motivator, especially as compared to staying in motion 🙂
At 2:33 we can’t really see your position on 2 but based on his line, you were not far enough across the line to 3 (he jumped straight over 2 then turned hard after landing). At 3:04 we can see you and yes – you are on the right turn wing of 2 but we need you to be closer to the left turn wing of 2 (where the cone it) – ideally, you would be standing on the exact line you want him to take (which is a little past the center of the bar) and then move towards 3 when you release him so he reads the tight line.
Nice job here! I think the main emphasis should be trying to run while maintaining connection for now – you will be surprised at how much easier it is 🙂
Tracy
Aha! Here is the up and down game.
Question – what does the search marker mean, specifically? One cookie or several cookies, or tossed or placed? I ask because you might not need a marker for this game and that will help keep the search marker clean.
For this game, let his head come all the way up for now, so he chin lifts up a little – that will help get the physiological response we want (for you both :)) And yes, take it to the practice field and see how it goes! I use this game ALL THE TIME in high arousal situations and it is really helpful.
Nice work!
Tracy
