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Hello! Thanks for your patience!!!
This sequence looked lovely! One subtle detail: You can pressure his line a tiny bit more on the rear cross, so he turns to his right before he takes off. You can be moving to the center of the bar til he takes off and. that should be all he needs. You pulled your shoulder to the left turn side of the wing a bit so he took off looking to his left, then he saw the RC when he was in the air and turned to his right. So it is just a matter of being literally one step sooner moving to the center of the bar to get it perfect.
The rest looked fabulous – great stay, lovely connection!!!! Yay!!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Don’t know whether it’s better to use food or toy with this. Food takes less time, but she likes toy better.>>
Food then a toy! Use both!
The lap turns on one wing looked good in both directions!
When you send to the first wing – the most important part of of the send cue is eye contact – if you sent with a high arm and didn’t really connect, she barked or didn’t go to the wing.
For the lap turn element, she needs to see your magic cookie hand down at her nose level as much as possible, so try to extend your hand down low and towards her, as if offering a treat! When you did that, she was perfect like at 1:24 on the first video.
You had your hand lower and presented it a little more obviously on the 2nd video, so she did well! You can make it even more obvious by extending it towards her more, locking your elbow – aim to have your hand down by your knee, not up by your hip, and I bet she reads it every time.
>>We also did this again tonight, and added Tandem turns. I thought it went well, although she doesn’t always turn around the wing tightly. >>
Yay! I am glad she did well! No need to worry about how tight they are right now, we can add more tightness later on 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! She is sorting it out, nothing to be embarrassed about or frsutratined with at all!
1st video:
The ‘go straight’ lines at the beginning looked great!For the first couple of outs of the first video – I think your hand is too high – she is tiny and it was at your shoulder height, so she didn’t quite read it. She had a light bulb moment when you stepped to the jump.
Compare to the first out of the 2nd video, where the arm was lower and she turned away. That is rewardable even though she didn’t quite get to the jump bar in time.That is just a cue processing thing. The toy was not the problem – I think the low hand helped and the next step to help her is to slow down your motion. Running straight and upper body cuing the out is hard, but walking would make it easier – and so would moving the wing a little further so she has more time to process the cues.
It looks like the wing was right in line with the jump, so you can change it’s position – looking at the 3rd video, move the wing closer to the camera so she doesn’t have to sort it all out as quickly for now. That way she has time to get it while you ware walking forward.
She was definitely sorting it out in the 3rd video, so now let the behavior “rest” so she can cement the learning. That way she can come back to it in a few days! It sounds like she is already doing better with it. The most important element of this game is to NOT go to the jump if you don’t cue it, and she nailed it!
And good catch, thinking the bar on the ground was distracting her and swapping it out for a weave pole. Smart!!!Great job 🙂
TracyKeep me posted! I can totally relate – it sounds DERANGED to ask an aroused dog to get more excited LOL! But, the science supports it and so do the results. We just need to experiment a little to tweak it for his needs. Hopefully I’ll see you both at a trial soon so I can see him in person!
TracyHi! I’m excited to plan for her return to the ring!
>>The recent ones- she did not care that I had a toy. Im not exactly sure what im asking here… but maybe should I still carry a toy even if she does not care about it at all. To stop in the middle of a “focused” run for a toy I think will cause her to run around. No idea if that makes sense. We haven’t had that many successful FEO runs>>
I think what your describing is Border Collie adolescent Overarousal 🙂 but I have more questions to be sure:
– at home and in class, will she play with a toy and/or eat treats away from the ring and not near equipment?
-at class, do you use food rewards or toys in your turns on course?
About the not coming back at the end… do you see this anywhere else with her? I can relate – when my Contraband was about 18 months old, he showed distinct signs of NOT coming back at the end LOL! He would take his frisbee and go live feral under a tree at my house LOL!
So I worked him through it is a top priority before putting him in the ring, with 3 parts to it:– teach arousal regulation
– get useful reinforcement and motivators to use in the ring
– work specifically on the end of run behaviorAnd also letting the adolescent brain mature a bit 🙂
All of these are on our agenda coming soon. Definitely let me know how the pattern games and volume dial are going!
Let me know what you think!
TracyYou bet I’ll keep sending ideas! And hopefully in the spring we can trial together!
For now, don’t be afraid to run. Worst thing that will happen is you are late LOL! Handling the way we want to gives us great insight and feedback from her.
Exciting times ahead!!!Tracy
Hi!
I wasn’t dictating but maybe I should have been LOL!
>>“…Yo can also teach the skill with your hat far away …”>>
I believe I was saying you can teach the skill with your position far away like you started, with a toy placed to help direct his focus.
I’ll blame my pups for distracting me LOL!!!
I don’t see any tagged videos on Facebook 🙁 hmmmmm. I will look on my Mac and iPad and see what’s going on. Did you install am update recently? Maybe Google and Apple had a falling out? Lol!
Tracy
Hi! He was such a good boy here! And the volume dial game also plays an important role in ‘teaching’ his physiology to self-regulate by bringing him up to the higher state (and eventually past it) then back to a more centered state. It is really cool stuff!
The paw tricks here are a good start to the value dial game, but we need to change the food delivery to change the arousal state. Instead of hand it to him in a stationary position, get the trick then run a few steps with him chasing you, then hand it to him after he moves a bit. Make the cookies into a toy 🙂
For the backing up and side-stepping for the toy – choose tricks that don’t require as much criteria. Those warm up movements are taught in a different arousal state, so when he was in a higher arousal state, there was some drift in the behavior (state dependent memory explains it, and it is fine for those behaviors).
Spins, high fives, etc, stuff you don’t really care that much about – those are perfect for this game. He will get frustrated (over-aroused) if he is being told he is wrong on these behaviors, and we definitely don’t want to over-arouse him. Also, tug on a 1:1 ratio – 1 behavior, 1 tuggie moment.
The spins are great, definitely do those! Add a leash so you can start to make the leash a normal part of it 🙂
On the sequencing:
He is reading this really well, and giving great feedback on the cues he sees. Good boy!! I would like to see some more energy and play at the start line, and less control and calmness. Embrace the arousal because that is the state he will be in at trials 🙂
He read the opening really well! You were pretty late on the turn cues for 3 (they started after he landed from 3) so he responded as nest he could. Don’t tell him no or stop… keep going! Just roll with it. Our young dogs don’t have crystal balls LOL! So if the go wide or off course, it was a handler error and we just need to roll with it and reward the dog. The cue to turn at 3 would start, at the latest, at landing of 2.
You were much earlier on the next run and he turned better! Try not to back up in your handling, that is what caused the refusal on the next run. Send and turn to the next line rather than run backwards. Then keep driving all the way through the last jump, so he can stay in extension and not ask questions (which caused the last bar to drop).
After taking the toy away – ask for a down stay as you reset. If you don’t and turn your attention to something else, he starts to circle then gets told he is wrong, but he needs more telling of when he is right 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Great questions here! And this is where the training gets uncomfortable for the humans 🙂 because it seems counterintuitive but it works like a charm.>>Vinny is always ready to do agility.
Yes – but that does not mean he is in the optimal arousal state or attentional state to do it successfully 🙂
>>I don’t ever feel the need to get him even more aroused.
This is where the agility folks start to twitch LOL!! The science says that actually you DO have to get him more aroused. Part of it is to get him into the optimized state of arousal (he sounds like he can be over-aroused, which is actually *lower* arousal per the science) and also it can get him into the sustained attentional state which is a good thing (more on that later in this class).
>>I started doing a hand tap for food with him to try and get him to focus on me. Can’t say he loves that game. Doubt he would do it outside the ring at an agility trial at this point. I>>
Then don’t do it, take it out of the toolbox 🙂 It sounds like the behavior and the food are not motivating and probably shift his arousal state into overarousal, which is where frustration lives.
>>I’m not sure what I should be trying to do. He has his warm up exercises which are back-up, side step, spins, stand to down or sit. >>
Use these and any other goofy moving thing… and use an action reward. It can be a few seconds of tugging, or chasing a cookie in your hand. But ACTION is the name of the game for the volume dial. And I know it sounds WEIRD but it will help to optimize arousal state AND give us tremendous feedback on what he needs. The volume dial game done correctly will NOT get him into over-arousal 🙂 Crazy sounding but totally true!
>>That’s outside where we have space to move so it’s removed from the stimulation that over aroused him. But what can I do inside that would engage him? >>
The volume dila game with the tricks you describe above, but with a tug toy closer to your hand. No running back and forth. You don’t need much room at all (rehearse it first at home so you get the feel for it)
>>Right now he won’t tug or take food outside the ring. This is where I feel I’m stuck.>>
Then he is not quite ready to be that close to the ring (or in the ring) til we teach him more of the arousal regulation games. No worries, this is normal. Have him as far from the ring as needed to start this (after it is rehearsed at home). And start it at trials during course builds, so there are obstacles but not dogs running. Eventually we will build to dogs running and he will be able to do it.
The key is to rehearse it systematically at all levels, starting from home then cranking it up. Adding the arousal at every step is super important, as we are building the neural pathways we want. Practice makes pathways!
Tracy
Hi!
>>The ultimate goal is down outside the ring while the last dog runs, LLW through the gate, eye contact, line up and go. So, todays session is down followed by LLW predicts work.>>
That is a good ultimate goal! But also – be flexible because your end result may not turn out that way. It is mainly a dog-directed framework, and she will tell us what she needs and how she needs it. So it is possible that it will work out just like this! Or, it is possible that you tweak elements both in the overall framework and also pull things from the toolbox we develop for in-the-moment tweaks.
A down outside the ring while the last dog runs – well, she might think that is perfectly comfortable! Or she might find it really uncomfortable and need to move a bit. So we will experiment and let her give us feedback (because the dogs ALWAYS give us feedback :)) So, stay flexible as she brings this into the agility environment.
On the video:
I agree, this is looking really good! A nice busy environment! Adding the volume dial game into it brings in the arousal state change element which will be incredibly useful. She did really well here with all elements of it and it is a great framework for getting started in front of agility equipment. That will be more challenging! When is your next class? The agility environment will change her state more than the park environment will, so get everything on video. This is actually the MOST fascinating element of it all, is getting the feedback from the dog and implementing it. I have some really cool success stories to share with the class in the next Zoom talk!Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
Both videos looked really good!
Try the jump grid with the down, starting him a foot further back so he as room to stand up when you release him, before taking the jump.
Also, to get his head down, have the toy down on the ground before you release him so he keeps his head down.For the proofing game, he did really well! My only suggestion is to hold his collar, start saying the verbal 3 or 4 times… then let go. That will help attach the verbal really strongly so she can understand both the verbal and physical cue. If it is all physical cues, she won’t learn the verbal as well.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
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This is good to know and helps us know what her mental state is!
>>Yes, I can do that with treats. She has a soft mouth; however, the higher she gets, the more snarky she gets. >>
This also gives us good insight into her arousal state – does the snark mouth mean she is over-aroused? Optimally aroused? We will experiment and see 🙂
The sequence looked great! She is SO FAST, I love it!!!
Thanks for leaving the blooper in – as she was exiting the tunnel, you were talking the jump and cuing the turn, so she came to you. On the 2nd rep, you were clearer that she should take the jump and the rest looked great 🙂So on the tunnel exits, be sure to look at her directly to cue the next line, rather than look at the jump. My rule for myself is to always talk to the dog, never talk to the obstacles LOL! That helps keep me connected 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi! Sorry for the delay, I tried to watch earlier but it was SO LOUD in the building that I could not hear you at all LOL! No worries about the length of the videos, it was all good!!
The sequencing is looking good. One thing I will bug you about is giving her more motion input, so she reads transitions and and does not learn to ignore deceleration. Distance work is great but the motion should also support the cues. When you were walking too much, she either ignored decel or she had questions. Plus it put you in some positions that changed her line. So… more motion input in terms of moving fast when needed or moving slower when needed and you will see the turns immediately tighten up. The connection and verbals all looked good!
First sequence: This is a good one for more motion input. We don’t want her to run that fast with almost no motion input from you, because it risks diluting deceleration cues.
On the opening sends, I think you were making it a little harder than it needed to be in terms of distance and the angle in front of the jump.Ideally, she should be angled on a slice towards 1 facing the tunnel so there are no questions about which side of the jump, with you both a little closer so she knows to go take it 🙂
Then you can hustle to the FC and decel into it using directionals so she can get the turn. The FC on the landing of 4 puts you on the path to the backside – she got it when you turned after she landed, but a FC between 3 and 4 will set that line nicely!
2nd sequence:
This looks good! Lots more motion input and that really helps! Both cues (the BC and the RC) looked good! The BC can be earlier – when she lands from 1, cue 2 (jump!) and start the BC on the way to 3 (don’t move in between the uprights of 2). I was happy with both of the RC reps and how you drove her to the tunnel!3rd sequence: On these tricky first jump commitments, you can hold your physical cue at jump 1 by facing the jump with your upper body (even if you move away with lower body) until you see her feet up for 1, then you can relax the cue. This is what you did on the next full rep at 1:13 and it was great!
Not using enough motion bit you at :19 on the RC… she was going fast going straight so did not rear the RC at all.
The next RC had more motion input and worked really well! The GO GO GO at the end was a little more than needed, because you hadn’t turned your shoulders early enough so she went past the last jump (good girl). So watch her head and turn her – then when she looks at the last jump, you can turn the GO GO GO back on 🙂
The next video was the 3rd sequence again and can use more motion input on this one. Good commitment on jump 1, but not enough motion input (you were kinda stationary) so she almost came into you instead of going to 2 (good girl)!.
Also, that caused you to put the FC on landing of 4, which puts you on her line to the tunnel. If you accelerate 2-3, you can get the cross between 3-4 and that gets a sweet line and keeps you further ahead 🙂
Last video -She had a question on the 1-2 line. I think it was a combo of you bring a bit too far away, and the threadle arm at :03 actually does kinda mean to come into you and go to the #2 jump. It is a serp, so should be one arm (left arm) unless you are doing s cross arm serp and then I will try to talk you out of it LOL!!
You did it as a blind on the next 2 reps, but doing it as a serp is going to be much easier and then you don’t need to time a cross (the BCs were a little late here and she made the turn after landing). Try making yourself more visible between the uprights at 1, walk through it like the old ‘strike a posse’ game, and see if she can read the serp as a one-armed cue with you a little bit closer.
The line 2-3-4-5 was good but not enough motion input so even though your verbal and FC were well timed before the tunnel there and also at 1:46, she was in the ‘ignore motion and go fast’ mode so was wide on the exit of the tunnel
On the 2nd rep on jump 3, you transitioned into decel by slowing to a walk with no verbal to override it (1:42) – so ideally we should see a nice big collection. We don’t want her to maintain extension on a line when she sees decel so… more motion input (I know, I am a pain LOL!!!) Accelerate! She did miss the 4 jump after it, which shows she did have a question about it.
So I think the main thing is to support her awesome line driving with motion, so when you shift into decel for a collection cue, she will read it because it always predicts turn.
Great job here! Le the know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
<
> Yes, the decel doesn’t have to be quite as abrupt, you can ease into it.
This first session went well! On the go reps, make sure you accelerate and run hard all the way til after she lands, otherwise you might dilute the decel cues.
On the first wrap rep, you decelerate and rotated at the same time, so she correctly didn’t commit. After that, you were much clearer with rotating later.The second session with the left turns also went well. I think on the first couple of reps, you were decelerating too soon for her current understanding so she didn’t commit. The space between the wing and the jump doesn’t have to be divided into equal 3rds, you can accelerate for longer and decel later on that side.
She figured it out nicely by the end!!You can do 2 things to make it even easier:
– you don’t need to wait for her to exit the wing wrap before you run forward. That was useful for the rears, but for the wraps you can send to the wing and leave sooner to be more ahead.
– you can also exaggerate the acceleration by really running hard then ease into the decel so she sees big steps go to small steps. Being ahead of her will make this easier too.
Great job!!
Tracy
