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Good morning!
>Ok, so backside slice I can say back and then do the blind that doesn’t need a separate command? >
If you are pushing to the backside slice and then doing a blind, the back verbal is all you need (the handling cues the blind). The only need for an additional blind there would be if you were so far away that you could not show any handling.
The backside circle would be the different verbal to push to the backside where she enters and exits on the same wing.
>Backside threadle with dog starting on left needs a separate command? Correct? I will use “me me”>
The threadle slice and threadle wraps should have separate verbals, yes – for me, I look at it in terms of which wing the dog enters and exits on: enter and exit on different wings? Threadle slice verbal. Enter and exit on the same wing? Threadle wrap verbal.
You’ll end up with 4 verbals for the backside – 2 for when you are handling from landing side and 2 for when you are threadling to takeoff side.
>What is the move called where dog is on your right and you threadle wrap them to the backside with off side arm? I say “choo choo” for that. Our last show had at least one to three of these in each class. Was designed by British Judge Neils and he did AKC classes as well as ISC classes and his AKC had backsides and those moves in them. You can imagine the regular AKC people, they weren’t happy, ISC courses were great.>
I think you mean a threadle wrap here, where she would enter and exit on the same wing.
I am surprised that people were surprised that a British judge would have more international courses LOL!! The premier course here was nice!
This was a really great run on a challenging course! She only had 2 questions:
At :17, you stepped forward into the FC as she was landing, so it looked like your right foot indicated the tunnel.At the end, going past that jump… it looks like the line after the double was to the backside of that jump, so you would need to be calling her before the double to get the turn. This happened in one of the courses earlier this summer, where she needed a strong name call to get that last line. Plus she was running into visual “clutter” of the pole, the ring wall, ring exit, etc, which can draw her attention off the jump. So definitely look for lines like this at the end so you can be calling her to get the jumps that look obvious but might not be.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I agree, he was great with ALL the things on this video! Yay!!
He was a good boy on that teeter! He totally noticed that the board had different movement to it – it looks like it is lighter than other teeters so probably ‘whips’ differently. But then on the 2nd rep he was fast again, so exposing him to all the different teeters is definitely helpful.
The handling game is looking GOOD!!!!!!
When you are quiet, he looks at you on the tunnel exit (good boy) so right before he goes into the tunnel, you can use a ‘go’ to get a straight exit, then switch to your wrap cue for the wing before he exits (or the soft turn cue, I think you were saying ‘whoa’ here). He was responding perfectly so the only thing to smooth out is getting him looking straight on the tunnel exit.
He was a lazy game superstar here too! No toy obsessing 🙂 Your connection was clear and he is getting used to the bigger distances, so he found his lines with no problem. Toy in hand or toy on the ground were both easy for him. Super!!!
You can move into the handling sequences using this setup.
Great job!
TracyHi!
He did great here! You totally did it right.The hardest part for us humans is to not change motion – when you were staying at the exact same level of motion, he was not as sure and he would stop but not sit as quickly.
When you slowed down a tiny bit, he sat quickly. So to fade out slowing down at all, you can be walking sooooo slooowwwwllllly the whole time, almost shuffling along – and when you say sit, don’t change anything 🙂 When he gets very snappy with that, you can add more and more motion (eventually you can build it up to running!)
And you can also add doing this with a toy, but you might have to start with really boring motion, such as marching in place 🙂 because the toy is more exciting than the food 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>First using more than one ball worked perfectly with Max. >
Great! It helps to think of it all as coming to an agreement with the dog rather than fighting with the dog 🙂
>. And instead of doing the teeter foundations I just included a video of the things we’re working on in your independent teeter class.>
That is perfect! The teeter work is going well!
On the mountain climbers (uphill game), he especially loves it when you run too :). You can keep adding more and more tip to the board. Have you added any rear crosses – stay close to the wing wrap and as he exits the wrap, you cue the teeter but rear cross it as he passes you.
On the elevator game – I like how he starts shifting his weight when you say feet, even before you drop the board. Yay!
after yo say ‘feet’ and drop the board, you can start adding motion by slowing walking forward, staying in motion until the board has landed and he has decided to remain in position.Great job!
TracyHi!
Very nice session here, she was looking for the backside more without you needing to step to it or be near the wing! You were very quickly able to get the angle of the jump back to the original position to make it a true backside, while continuing to reward on the landing side. Super!!!
> My hand cues are far from subtle but I think that is what she needs to change her trajectory, lol. Maybe they can be more subtle over time?>
The don’t ever need to be subtle 🙂 They can be big and loud forever! It will make the cues look very different if the front side of the jump is subtle and calm, and the backside is big, loud, and more intense.
Remember to look at her eyes very intensely for the backside cue, almost as if you are mad LOL If you looked at her normally, she didn’t go to the backside as well.
>It is pretty obvious she has made her mind up as she goes in the tunnel >
Yes – before she enters the tunnel, tell her how you would like her to exit. In this case you don’t need wait til you see her exit the tunnel before starting the backside cues. You can already have your arm up and be saying the verbal right before she enters, so it is happened as she exits. The last 3 reps had you showing the info well before she exited, so she went to the backside brilliantly with you all the way across the bar! Super!
For the next session, you can do a similar setup but switch sides, to work this on your right side. That way we can be more sure that she is going to the backside on cue and no because she remembered the setup 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
> Took a few days break with her she had a three day dog show some days with 5 runs and a seminar. We weren’t super successful at the show.>You’ve been busy! If you have videos for the show, post them so we can see where the questions were and how to fix them, to get more success at the next show 🙂
Looking at the backside video:
This was a really good session!!! Keep throwing the reward to the landing side as you add more and more speed and independence (and blind cross exits) so she continues to look for the bar and not as you as you run through.
The wrap seemed to be harder as you added more motion. I think there were 2 reasons for that:
– I think part of the reason she was slicing or not taking it was that the jumping effort of taking the bar in collection without extra help from you is REALLY hard. So as you add more and more speed and bigger sequences with the backside wrap, the bar on the backside wrap jump can be a little lower especially on the first approach to it, to make the jumping effort easier for now.
– It sounds like your verbal for both approaches to the backside is ‘back’ and for the wrap you were adding ‘check’ but the check verbal was happening after she was having to make a takeoff decision. So she was having to wait to see physical cues, which will definitely impact the backside wraps on full courses. Rather than stack the cues (“Back check”) it is better to have separate cues 🙂 The backside wrap and the backside slice are very different behaviors, so we treat them accordingly with different cues. And that way you can deliver the info earlier: when she is at the previous jump, you can be telling her if it is a slice or wrap on the backside, so she can set herself up independently without waiting for more info.I know it is a pain to add another verbal 🙂 but it will be totally worth it!!
Nice job here!
Tracy
Good morning! This went really well!! And it was perfectly fine to start with course 2 🙂 The walk through and the runs were pretty similar plus there was some useful info from him.
>and I never quite know what speed of dog I’m going to get but usually slower than I think), then run 2x.>
It is good to be able to run the walk through faster than the actual speed as long as you can keep the connection and timing and handling and verbals 🙂 It is important to remember that he has a lot of yardage to do when you send and takeoff to the next line, which is why is feels different or slower. More on that below!
Good job working the connection and verbals in the walk through! The verbals can be done in the same energy/pitch/volume as the real run, even in your slow walk. We do this to begin to program ourselves for the real run 🙂 I loved your connection to the invisible dog at the exit of the first tunnel 🙂 You can make the exit of the 2nd tunnel just as connected, it looked a little less connected in the walk through and that is a critical spot to be able to get him to the backside.
The runs went really well!
Going back to the concept of him having a lot more yardage than you do so the speed of the run feeling different from the walk through: on the opening line where you both ran the same yardage, I think your walk through and real run speed basically matched! The send to 3 and distance to 4 is where it might have felt different – you could send and go directly to 5 there, but he had to run all of that yardage to meet you at 5. Plan for that, which will mean you can get ahead pretty easily using your sends!
That is what bit you at the end of the first run – you were able to send him to the 6-7 line which puts you way ahead on the tunnel exit, and that I where you lost a little connection and he didn’t know where to be. On the 2nd run you adjusted so you didn’t get as far ahead and got the connection to the backside after the tunnel. Yay! I think he prefers when you are a shade closer to the line there anyway – when he is working the 6-7 line and you are way ahead, I think he was having to think harder than needed about staying on the line and knowing where you were going. When you were a little closer on run 2, he seems to be able to devote more resources to running fast and didn’t have to think about where you went as much 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Hooray for good weather and feeling good all happening at the same time!! MUCH to be happy with here!This was a really challenging session here but I think it went really well! Casper really seems to enjoy this type of ‘work’ and you did a great job breaking things down (giving hints😁) when things were really hard. The right turn away from the weave/tunnel setup was probably the hardest part!
He did well with the weave and tunnel cues coming from the DW. Being able to do weaves while layering a tunnel is a BIG win – this skill is getting super popular and I know you will able to use it in AKC JWW and Standard too!
The timing of the cues can come one stride sooner: you were giving them as he landed, but I think giving the weave or tunnel cue as he is taking off will give him that extra stride to process the verbal. The discrimination can be especially challenging in the heat of the moment on a big course, so the earlier info can be helpful.
>I also did a bit of one jump discrimination work. In theory, all of these should be “in play” on a verbal: 90 degree left, 90 degree right, wrap left, wrap right, switch (turn away), backside wrap, backside slice, threadle wrap, threadle slice>
Totally agree that these are all in play! And doing it with the tunnel-weave setup made it a bit harder (he was primed to go into the discrimination). The right turn away from it all was SUPER hard (I can see his point that it makes no sense to turn away from all of the obstacles!). And he needed help on the wrap: He collected like a wrap but then possibly assumed tunnel based on context? You can revisit the wing-tunnel proofing games from MaxPup 2 to refresh that skill of wrapping even with a tunnel visible.
He could get the backsides with you closer to the jump, but had trouble from the dog walk exits.
From that far away – you can try to push to the backside with the outside arm because dog-side arm as the cue opens up the possibility of you turning to the front by a fraction, so he comes into the front of the jump. But the outside arm exaggerates the shoulder position and is more visible when distance is added. And it is easy to fade once he has the skill. It would look like you connecting to his eyes to cue the verbal, and your outside arm pointing to the entry wing (as you move forward up the line).
Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, gloriously cool here!!! Hope you’re enjoying your vacation!
>>How do I find the balance between running parallel on big lines and layering, and moving to the new line on a more extreme angle and trusting her to hold the line?>>
Part of it is running courses and analyzing 🙂 and part of it is just gaining experience. The verbals and line understanding will start to lock in more and more, so you’ll have a better sense of how early you can leave for the next line. You are 100000% on the right track, it will continue to get better and better!!! You’ve made enormous strides so quickly!
Have fun!
TracyHi!
I totally see what you mean here: if your connection and position aren’t perfect and you don’t step to the backside line, she’s likely to take the front. And we need to get her to commit to going to the backside before we work on taking the jump bar!So 2 ideas for you:
– you can angle the jump a bit, pulling the backside entry wing towards the previous jump and the exit wing further away. That way the line to the backside is easier to see (and the line to the front side is harder to see 🙂 )– she will probably do really well with a very intense connection as part of the backside cue. Have you ever tried using an outside arm to cue the backside instead if dog side arm? That would be looking right at her with the big connection as you say the backside cue, with your outside arm pointing to the backside wing. I’ll see if I can find a video of it!
I think if we can convince her to go to the backside, then everything else will lock into place. I’ll go find a video of the outside arm cue for ya!
TracyHi!
Let me know what you think of the jump class! I usually only recommend things with feedback, because Ven’s structure is different from a BC which is different than a Sheltie, etc. And conditioning and jumping are heavily influenced by structure and movement.I think a conditioning class would be cool for him too! Let me find some good ones with feedback if possible! So many don’t have feedback which makes it harder!
Tracy
Good morning!
She did well here!
>Thinking about why that might be I thought of 3 things that may have contributed…..the exercise is harder, requires more focus and more physically difficult jumping at the wrap; as much as she likes to tug I think it is a physically tiring thing for her and then there was a bag of treats on a shelf just outside of camera view. >
Yes to all of this, but I think the main factors were the treats on a shelf (she definitely had to think through that!) and more importantly… you were decelerating early at :31 and :53 (about a stride before she took off for the middle jump). So she was decelerating because you were decelerating 🙂 Good girl! You didn’t decelerate early on the last run but that is where she was devoted brain bandwidth to the treats on the shelf.
So you can accelerate for longer before the wrap – as she is over the middle bar, you can tart the decel. That should keep her driving forward into the wrap (which she executed really well!)
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>That would be fun! How often do you practice, and how would I find out about when/where?>
We practice at Level Up, but not that often. I will let you know when the next one is!
>. It’s been a weak point for me because, as you said, it’s counterintuitive not to point at things! >
Do you remember the game where you ran with a water bottle in your hand (MaxPup 3) to keep from swinging your arms around? You can put a water bottle here in your dog-side arm with the backside pushes to help keep the arm back. And a little spilled water will feel nice with all this heat LOL!
>And the tandem turn into the rear cross was especially hard for me.>
Think of this as slowing down, showing hands, turning her away then you turn that way too. It is more of a dual facing the new direction than a rear cross, so the slowing down & turning her away can make it easier for her to see.
Opening line: – She might have been set up too close to jump 1 on the first run where she hit the bar? No trouble there on the 2nd run.
2-3-4 looked really strong!!
She got mad (on the first run) then was not sure about which side of the bar for a couple of strides on the 2nd & 3rd run (ended up hitting the bar of 5 on run 2) when you were standing still after tunnel 4 so you can move in closer to the tunnel and be in motion as she exits.
Blind to 10 at :18 needed connection sooner on run 1, but you got it sooner and clearer on runs 2 and 3! The BC is a little harder to get to there on time, so she was a little wide. You can keep her on your right side and do a threadle wrap on 12 too.
Pushing to the backside on 12 is where the big connection will help (:22). Your arm was back and you had more connect at 1:38 and she did a lot better!
:39 on the teeter – where you trying to get her further down? Keep rewardnf the skill
Nice job getting the 16 backside
The send to 17 before the dog walk at :44 and 1:49 should also be an arm back send – when you pointed forward, she had questions because the pointing changes the line of your shoulders & feet. Compare to 3:22 where your arm stayed low until after she passed you – great send there!!
The BC 19-20 might have felt awkward on the first run because you didn’t add 21 which makes the line nicer. You had the 21 jump there on run 2, which was definitely smoother! The wrap on that 2nd run worked well, but I think the slice you did on run 3 will ultimately be the faster line due to all the extension (and easier weave entry). You got the blind in really well there, you just needed a bit of decel as soon as you finish the blind to cue the tight turn on 21.
The weaves to the end looked great!
About the teeter:
>On the last attempt, she didn’t want to do the teeter. She showed me she can do the skill, so I had her do the teeter once without layering and then started after the tunnel. She may have just been getting tired, and that takes a lot of her brain power!>Yes, she has done a lot of reps of it and after the initial training, I don’t think she has gotten rewarded specifically for it so she was heading to where the rewards were (closer to you :)) So keep rewarding that teeter skill! Plus it is a lot of slam on the body, so you can limit the reps so she doesn’t get sore. It is one of the hardest obstacles because of the impact as it hits the ground, which the dog has to absorb to stay on.
Great job here!!
Tracy
