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Good morning!
I am really glad you played with this, things went really well! The wing wrap start was great, you made excellent adjustments to add more connection any time she had a question, and it looks like you didn’t run into or trip on any of the tunnels 🙂 She did a terrific job of staying on the side you cued – that is a lot harder than it looks!
The first couple of reps with the smaller/single tunnel looked great 🙂 Your connection on those was really clear: arm/hand pointing back to her nose, dog-side shoulder open to her. She knew exactly where to be (like at :12, for example).
The giant double tunnel was harder – on the first couple of reps you were ‘closing’ your shoulder too early (looking ahead/facing forward) like at :19 and :25, so she read the shoulder movement as a blind cross cue and changed sides.
Excellent adjustment from you, your connection at :35 was great – you did not get as far ahead and and kept your arm back to her for longer. The toy in your dog-side hand helped you get your arm back to pen up the connection more clearly. She did no seem to be focusing on the toy; instead she seemed to be reading the connection very clearly.
Then you nailed the next reps on the regular circle. Super!!!
On the next couple of reps, you were doing the blind cross between the tunnels – getting a bit too far ahead was causing the questions. When you were already passing the tunnel as she exited the wing at 1:03 and 1:11, it looks like she couldn’t see enough of your physical cues (she could only see your back and your motion) so it appeared like you wanted her on the other side of the tunnel. That could have been her seeing convergence that direction, or going a little wide to try to find connection.
Excellent adjustment at 1:18 and 1:27 to show her more of the connection to get her to the correct side of you! And then 1:38 and the last rep were SUPER nice with the connection to get her on the correct side followed by the blind. Well done keeping the shoulder open so she could see where to be, then a really clear blind so she could change sides. Yay!
You can totally add doing 2 tunnels in a row: shadow handling around 1 tunnel, blind cross in between, shadow handling around the other tunnel. And you can add the ‘inside’ turns where she is between you and the tunnel.
Great job!!!
TracyHi!
These 2 videos also look really strong! Your left/right verbals sound very different from the GO verbals and that can be super helpful for him.
On the 2nd video, you were starting the left verbals before he went into the tunnel (yay!) and you can also add the physical cue at that same timing, so he sees you moving away to the left turn wing before he enters the tunnel.On the 3rd video, you had good timing of the verbal AND physical right turn cue. Nice! You can play with seeing if you can start the cues when he is a solid 6 feet away from the tunnel entry – just how early can he get the cues and maintain tunnel commitment?
For the GO reps, you can throw the toy even sooner so it is landing while he is still in the tunnel. He was exiting straight on the Go reps but looking back at you, because there is nothing else to look at 🙂 You can try having a placed toy out there, which will be a good challenge to see if he can ignore it on the turn reps and drive to it on the GO reps (and a ‘get it’ marker can help a lot too).
One thing I notice is that his head is in a good position on the turns in terms of looking the new direction but he is fish-tailing on the mats (butt swinging out wide, shortening stride to avoid slipping). So as he learns the skills, try to get him on as many grass/dirt surfaces as possible so he can sort out the mechanics of he turns.
Great job here! Le me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Lots of good success on all 3 of these videos!
>>figuring out how to get him to let me hold him.>>
He did really well with lining up and letting you hold him. One thing to remember is that as soon as you are holding him, you should get right to business (start the verbal, then let go and start the motion). He is definitely not the hugs-and-kisses type of dude (most BCs are NOT interested in that when getting ready to work) LOL! A food reward might be fine, but resist the temptation to praise him and pet him while you are holding him, because even though it is intended as reinforcement, he might find it averse and might start avoiding being held.
Because so many pups in this class don’t want to be held or lined up, I put together some videos for ideas on how to build the love for being held and other line up options too, so we don’t always have to hold them and so they move into a stay happily. It is here:
On the first video here, the 2nd rep had earlier timing of the GO verbal than the first rep (you started the GO before he was in the tunnel on the 2nd rep) so definitely keep going with the early timing. He is driving through these really well so we can play with just how early you can deliver the physical and verbal cues.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
Yes, the weather has been pretty gross!! Hopefully it clears soon.I think because Pesto is so young and small, we should keep the bars at 4″ for a couple more weeks til we get more sessions of getting his head low. We want to blaze those neural pathways of jumping form for a while before we add more height to the jump (he will have no problem with the bars coming up when he is old enough). Contraband had ascending bars because he was 20″ tall at the time 🙂 and had good head position and form. Elektra’s bars stayed low for a long while as she learned better form.
Tracy
Good morning!
I see what you mean about the connection on the left turns versus the right turns! I watched it a few times, and I think here are two things happening to make the difference between him easily finding the line on the right turns (at the beginning) versus his questions on the left turns:
– he might be a righty 🙂 so the right turns are easier and more fluid for him and the left turns requires longer processing time and a more delayed response.
– you might be more comfy on that side too, because on the left side you are stepping backwards to get into position for the FC and that backwards motion is what is supporting the line he takes. You didn’t do the same backwards steps on the right turns, you were more forward on the line. And when he reset for the left turns, you stepped forward and he got it correctly each time.
So keep the forward motion on the rights turns, and you can set up the left turns so you are further away from the wing to start – that way you can step directly forward for the FC and won’t need to step backwards at all. Let me know how he does with that!
The other thing that will help with connection on the left turns and on both sides is to show him the toy with the opposite arm, across your body – that will open up the connection a lot more and makes your line even more visible.
Here is what I mean by that:
When you revisit this, you can add a little more distance between the jump and the wing, so you can run more especially on the right turn side 🙂 (try to work up to over 20 feet apart, maybe more) and also so you can add the Go Go Go verbal too! I think he is totally ready for that.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well with the wind in your hair game – He is definitely wanting to get to work! And he is doing super well with wrapping the wing and finding the jump, no questions at all.>>I also realized afterwards that I was doing a backside wrap and I don’t believe you were in your demo.>>
That is fine, any wrap can work for this game 🙂
Since he is doing so well, definitely spread out the wing and the jump so he has more room. The goal is to have them 21 feet apart or more. That will give you a chance to start moving more, add the verbal, and throw the reward sooner so he doesn’t look back at you (throw it as soon as he looks at the jump after exiting the wrap, rather than when he gets to the jump).
>>you will see Zyp’s excitement is hard for him to control. I would love to do a collar grab beforehand but he does not like to be restrained and will avoid me if I do it too many times. I>>
Yes, he is very excited to play and that is a good thing! He wants to get right into the game and offers a lot of behaviors before you are ready, so asking him for the tricks first like you did in the last couple of clips was very helpful. Also, to keep him with you rather than him offering obstacles, you can bring him into the session with some play first, tugging with you, then line him up as you tug (and trade for a cookie to get the toy back, if needed).
About the collar grab and lining up – it turns out that a whole lot of pups in this class share his opinion of being held by the collar LOL!!! Since it is an important tool to have (and we don’t want the pups to avoid the handlers when we reach for them), I put together and posted a series of videos on how to improve the collar grabs and also other line up methods. That should give you some ideas and fun games to play to help him line up happily for training. You will find it here:
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I’m relieved – thank you! I’m not big on marking mistakes, but sometimes they slip out. Does it help them to learn to mark the misses (nicely)? I guess it depends on the dog. I don’t want to squish her spirit. I usually just reset & try again.>>
For something like a broken stay, it is OK to very nicely mark it and reset her because you are going to reset her anyway, so might as well mark the moment as long as it is nicely done 🙂 For handling bloopers? I don’t mark those as dog errors because 99% of hte time, the dog is reading us himans correctly, and we are the ones that are messing up. So for handling stuff, either just keep going, or reward her.
The set point is going well! The stay isdefinitely better with you standing up, and the MM is a great focal point her for.
The 30 inches seems fine but it might expand a little when you add the moving MM (which you can go ahead and add :))>>She knocked the pool noodle a few times.>
I think that was because she was having a little trouble with the plyometric liftoff to the first jump. Try having her a couple of inches further away and see if it helps her? She might have been a shade too close here, so she was not quite able to clear the 1st jump.
>.I have not put bars up yet for her, I wanted to hear when you thought she was read>>
I think the order of festivities should be:
– first add the moving target MM-on-wheels with the noodles for one session
– then if that goes well, go back to the stationary MM and put a bar in on the 2nd jump as low as possible and see how she does!This is the kind of thing to try every 3 days or so, so she has time to cement the learning with latent learning too 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for the update! She is doing well.You can use a cot and reward her for staying on it, but you can also send her into her crate and shut the door (with are ward too) so you can reset and not worry about her bopping around or jumping in the pool or climbing the contacts. I am glad she is confident but you might need to put an x-pen around the contacts so she can’t use them as a playground LOL!!
T
Hi! The videos are generally too large to attach directly. The easiest way to do it is to upload to Youtube or Vimeo, then copy the URL link into your Forum thread. That will be easy and fast to get the videos loaded.
Tracy
Hi!
He is showing really good commitment to the tunnel and wings, and he is very game to run fast and play. So we can totally look at timing and connection to smooth this out.In terms of connection: when you were connected, no questions from Kaliki! I think you were trying to show the line between the wings too much with a high arm (shoulder height) and looking forward, which blocked connection so he looked at you a lot. Try to have your arm low so you hand can point at his nose and look at his eyes the whole time. That should keep him looking at the lines and not at you 🙂
This is especially important on the tunnels – when you are going fast and disconnect before he goes in, he runs past it (like at :21 and 1:45), trying to look up at you. When you are connected (like at :27 and the other reps) he got it really well!! And the same on the tunnel exits and FC exits – when you were connected to him and not looking at the wing when he exited the tunnel or was finishing a FC, he had no questions. Yay!
So make your connection to him more important than you moving fast at this stage – that will both support his commitment and test it a little because you won’t always be ahead of him.
For the timing:
On the tunnel exits, you can put a line on the ground (like a leash or something) about 4 feet or more before the tunnel entry – that is when you should be saying the turn cues or the go. He needs to hear all that before he enters, and the line will give you the visual – as he is crossing over the line before the tunnel entry, he should be hearing the directional. You were tending to start them when he was already in the tunnel, so he was guessing a bit on the exit and looking for you rather than for the wing.For the wing wraps, his commitment and turns are going well – I think you were trying to run fast to every wing, which sometimes sent him wide because of the acceleration or sometimes caused a question because you didn’t turn to the wing (like at :48 and 1:28). So you can add some deceleration as he is passing you to help cue the turn which should make it smoother. And if something goes wrong? You can reward and reset, or just keep going to the next wing or tunnel and reward that. He is doing a great job of reading the cues, so if there is a blooper, it is handler error LOL!!
I think spreading things out might make it a little easier too – having the wings about 18 or 20 feet from the tunnel will give you more time for the connection and cues. And he is super speedy, so having more time will definitely feel comfortable!!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>. I may use tequila for Bazinga! hahahaha
With her speed, I suggest strong coffee or espresso LOL!!!
>>I feel like your feedback about looking at the dog & not the line and using magnet hands (no flailing) are 2 huge holes I’ve had in my handling. I am committed to working on this and improving!>>
I think all of us instructor types spent a few years (2013 – 2017, approx) telling folks to look at the line and ‘draw’ the line with our hands. OOPS! Turns out that was not quite right and didn’t help the handlers. Sorry! So that is probably where you heard it and learned it. As we got better at figuring out what the dogs needed, turns out direct eye contact to the dog as we move is best, and low arms is best too especially for smaller dogs. Motion and experience helps the dogs figure us out when we do it wrong, but puppies demand very clear connection 🙂
>>I’ve been watching your videos to see how you accomplish this & how do you keep your bearings on the course while watching the dog? You are brilliant at it.>>
Thanks for the kind words! It has improved thanks to lots and lots of practice – the more I look downwards at the dogs, the more my field of peripheral vision is expanded so I can actually see the obstacles on course better. And my good behavior gets rewarded when the dogs run well! And my 10 year old dog used to punish my bad behavior of disconnection or flailing by trying to bite me LOL!!
>>We worked on set point. I moved the MM further away and it increased the difficulty of the stay. >>
Yes, the MM has a lot of value and the getting low to it was very exciting for her! I wonder, since the MM has a lot of value, if she doesn’t need you to get lower to it anymore?
>>Do you think I should do some less challenging setups with the MM closer (even if it is not the best position for her jumping) to be sure she is successful? >>
She was pretty darned successful here! Try the MM in the same spot, with you standing up when you release her – release then click the MM. See if that helps her both hold the stay and have the good jumping form.
her jumping is looking good! I want to try the set point 6 inches smaller and see if that is the sweet spot – you can also have her a few inches closer to the first jump, about 3 inches away. It might not make any difference but we can play around and see if she can be more centered in the gap between the 2 jumps.
>>We had a few false breaks. I said the “no” word in this session & died inside. Bad human. I don’t want to do that again. 🙁>>
I watched for that and was expecting to hear some big bad momma voice coming out… you were very polite when you said no! You marked the break very quickly and very nicely (on the 2nd one, she re-sat herself, it was kind of hilarious). So you can mark it as long as you are as sweet about it as you were here.
>>I think her form looked good when she jumped. The rug was moving beneath her when she pushed off, so I’m going to remove that for our next session. Maybe I’ll keep the one in the center so I can do some “catches” and she can find the treat. That did not seem to give her an issue.>>
Agree! her form is organized and powerful! And yes, I don’t think she needs the rug anymore. She is doing great!
>>Our wheels came and I tried them out but it didn’t speed Bazinga up. I think I can’t move them fast enough to mimic a toy. Is it ok if the MM is just moving in general or does it need to be a chase? I let her get used to the moving MM and tried 2 reps from jump 1 to see how it looks & there is a short clip below.>>
It looks fabulous! We don’t need to speed her up or have her chase it – we just need to keep her head down (she is already VERY fast in the grid). So, you can use the rolling MM and now start rolling it before the release so it is moving the whole time. You might need to show her that on the flat first, with her in a stay while you beginning rolling the MM, then releasing to it.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>.We were at the Vet this week and she weighed all of 6.9 pounds. Woohoo!
Almost 7 pounds! Getting big!!!
>>Then yesterday I noticed she’s in full Heat, her first cycle. Is there anything we should do differently training-wise with her being in heat?>>
Generally no, we can continue training but she will let you know. Most girls are their normal selves while in season, but some do get weird and hormonal. If that happens, we give them a break (usually a week during the middle or last week of the cycle). I bet she remains normal 🙂
>> She sometimes jumps up to try and get her toy, before we start a rep etc. I’ve got it in my hand for ease of delivery, HR or favorite tug. If it’s in my pocket I can’t get it out in time to reward. The only thing I know to do is give her a treat for Not taking it.
I don’t want her to keep jumping up to take her toy. Do you have any suggestions?>>So during the ‘in-between’ moments she is jumping up for the toy? Yes, we can totally work on that. One thing you can do is tug with her as she is entering a session, or between reps – and tug her to the start position, trade for a treat, line up, and go into the next rep. That does mean quicker transitions, so you will need to be ready to go as soon as the toy comes out of her mouth. As part of the reset, I often toss the cookie away from the pup to go get, which buys me precious seconds to get ready for the next rep – when the pup comes back after getting the treat, I can either line her up or start the next rep (depending on the skill).
If you are throwing the reward and it is not a tuggable reward (like the dumbbell that she likes or a ball) then you can trade for a tug toy and then reset as described above.
Another suggestion is a ‘station’ like a dog bed or cot or cato board for her to wait on before you start or send to between reps, so you can get ready then call her into the session.
I think part of it is that she doesn’t like to be touched to line up, and it is in that collar-holding moment that we can get ready without her jumping up for the toy. She has several classmates here who also don’t like to be touched! So on my to-do list for today or tomorrow is to put together 2 things:
– getting the pups to like being held/touched more
– alternate line up games so you can make those transitions without the pups jumping up to grab toys or bite mommas 🙂>>For the Wind game, I used the HR and gave her kibble to leave it, just like you said. And outside of one blip, she got the idea and was able to leave it and work the game. Yay!>>
SUPER!!!!!
>>So, I’ve noticed it’s when she’s SUPER high, super stimulated, super aroused, that’s when she grabs for the toy and sometimes gets my hand. After a series of games, reps we just played fetch with her orange dumbbell. Then I asked for a simple behavior like right and she WENT for the toy, getting my hand. She’s so high she’s just grabbing at anything? Dogs don’t really get defiant do they?>>
Correct, they do NOT get defiant. They DO get aroused and stimulated, plus she is a full-on adolescent which means the executive decision-making part of the brain is not fully formed and gets overruled by the impulsive part of the brain most of the time 🙂 TOTALLY normal. Annoying? Sure! But normal. And grabbing at things is a sign of over-arousal, perhaps some frustration (because she wants to start NOW and do the things NOW and doesn’t know instantly how to get the toy).
So if you played fetch for a high value toy, you are doing something that is very stimulating! And when you asked for a behavior in that level of arousal, the science tells us that it is highly likely that she did not understand the cue even if she has done it plenty of times (google “state dependent memory” if you want to go down the rabbit hole LOL!) And so the arousal + frustration of either not understanding the cue or not understanding the context = grabbing at the toy, and accidentally getting some flesh too (ouch!)
>>Should I end our sessions by bringing her down with a Licky Mat? I’ve always used a fun game of fetch, just plain to give them some Non-thinking fun.>>
The fetch is definitely fun and requires no mental heavy-lifting! But it seems to really stimulate her, so yes – try ending sessions with a licky mat or a snuffle mat or a bunch of treats scattered in the grass. Then observe which of these seems to best help her chill out after training.
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>> But now I can see that it is a question! She is looking to me to figure out what is next vs. knowing what is next & just continuing on. INTERESTING!!!!>>
Yes, it is the most counterintuitive thing about agility: if we look at the dog while we move, the dog looks at the line. If we look at the line, the dog looks at us. I am sure it has something to do with how it lines up our shoulders.
>>She did not want to trade for food. What? Yes. Would not trade for food.>>
Wow, Bazinga Bunny Chaser! Love it! That will be a great type of toy to bring to UKI rials for NFC runs when she is ready!
>>Now my challenge is to work on a cooperative “out” because when I try & snatch the toy from her, she jumps after it so high and I don’t want her to get hurt.>>
Yikes, yes, definitely keep the toy low so she doesn’t mush herself. She will figure it out – to get the toy back, she has to let go of the toy 🙂
Looking a the tunnel exit video:
I am loving her commitment and speed speed speed!!!Think of the two of you giving cues to each other: you cue something like the tunnel, and keep cuing it and moving to it until she cues you that she’s got it and you can move to the next thing. She will cue you by looking at and stepping towards the line you want.
On the first rep she didn’t have a chance to cue you to leave because you left before she could look at the tunnel. Compare to the reset/send on the next rep – you supported a lot better and so she went to the tunnel perfectly. 🙂 So be patient and let her give you the thumbs up that she sees the line before you move to the next one.
To Go exits looked really good at the beginning! She had a couple of questions when you revisited them a about 1:00 because you were looking ahead of her and throwing later, so she looked at you.
Definitely try to look at her at the exit of each tunnel even when you are behind her (look at her butt haha) and that will really support the line.
For the left and right exits, you can call the cue a little sooner (about 3 or 4 feet before she goes into the tunnel) and also change the volume – make it more conversational so it sounds very different than the big loud GO cues.
>>I tried to control my arms on the soft turns (left & right) but I still had them high. >>
Yes, and when the arm is high and you are ahead, it is breaking connection so she can’t necessarily see the line. If you are close enough to the wing, she is getting it but at :34 and 1:17 when she exited the tunnel, your back was to her and you were turning away a little, so she did not go to the wing. That is still rewardable, either with the toy or by continuing, because bloopers like that are all handler errors 🙂
Better connection on the next reps helped her, but I think we can ge your arms even lower. Think of it as magnet fingers pointing down to her nose on the exit of each tunnel, and I think she is ready for you to do this:
I think you did this with Frankie? Or am I making that up in my head? LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
I can totally relate to the feeling of having to much to do while training you dogs. It can be overwhelming! Trying to keep up with concepts is the way to go and far more important than keeping up with all of the individual games 🙂About the collar hold – yes we should work on it 🙂 using it as part of agility training is nice, but it is more useful as a general life skill to have when he is stimulated.
And it is pretty normal to see pups that don’t want to be touched when in high arousal, especially if there is a medical history that required being touched when in pain.
When he was a wee pup, do you remember playing forward focus and toy race games with him? That was when you’d hold him, put a toy down, then immediately let him get it… and then gradually extend the amount of time you held him, and the distance you threw the toy.
If you recall those games… how did he do with being held?
If he was fine with the quick holds, you can start by revisiting that and then we build from there.
If he was wiggly about that, 2 suggestions:
Reverse the order of festivities with the toy races game (using a toy or the manners minder): he is in a sit, place the toy, and we begin to systematically shape the collar hold by slicing the behavior really thin:
– move your hand towards him
– put one finger on his neck or side, but not actually holding him
– put a finger on his collar
And so on.The 2nd suggestion is to use a simple, non-restrictive body harness, maybe even with a small tab line on it. This might be a blank slate approach and he might find it less intrusive?
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
