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Hi!
He is doing well here too –
>> I wasn’t sure if I should try to add in more motion yet or stay where we are. You’ll see where I tried a bit more, but it was too much. >>
I think two things were happening here when he didn’t commit: at 1:00 for example, you were running pretty fast and looking at him, which pulled him off the jump. And, the rewards where coming near you (towards the end of the first session) and from your hand (second session) which shifted the value away from the barrel. So, yes – add more motion! But exaggerate looking back to the landing side and keep tossing the reward to the landing side so it is nowhere near you 🙂
>>Also does the verbal end up being break because it is a serp or do you give the wrap directionals when you end up with the counter motion past the direction he’s coming from? >>
Either is fine at this stage, because it eventually gets put in to the context of your motion through a serpentine.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
This was an interesting session! Starting with the 2 parallel path reps put him into feeling very “forward” and then he was going wide to perhaps try to find the connection in front of you (pretty typical Border Collie behavior, nothing worrisome).
Breaking it down definitely helped him. For the next session, start on the full jump (to help him locate the front side), and don’t start with any parallel path forward reps 🙂 Jump in with him maybe 6 feet from the jump, and you stationary near the wrap wing – and reward for any effort on the front side but don’t reward if he goes around the backside (just reset with a cookie). You can even click him for taking the front. When he is able to do that, you can start to move him further back so there are more strides to the jump – and then when he is happy with that, you can add the parallel path reps in again 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi!
He did really well here – the stays and the commitment both looked great!The first video looked good, very precise mechanics on the transitions and rewards and the lead out. Nice!
Good stay rewards mixed in! For the barrel rewards, reward on the line closer to you because your lead out position (stationary and on the same ‘plane’ as the barrel) predicts a soft turn not a wrap.2nd video
Good job with the tricks & play before the line up, and adding the leash into it. that all helps make the transition into the ring easier later in his life 🙂>>I realized I was confused about which arm I should use depending on the different sides>>
On this video, you were using the opposite arm/leg to send – so these lateral lead outs should always be dog-side leg/arm like on the first video.
One other detail – be sure to lead out and stand still on the plane of the barrel, before the send – you had some extra motion or didn’t quite lead out far enough (like at 1:54, which was more of a parallel path send as you were not on the plane of the barrel). That consistent position will help him understand the soft turn openings that he will see on course.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>On another topic, Tracy Golden says hi, I saw her last weekend, told her I was taking the class. 🙂
Wow! Small world! Tell her I say hello!!
The rocking horse game is going well!! I agree, it is harder than it looks 🙂 But you had super nice connections throughout and she showed really strong commitment!!!
>.. I often had problems getting Georgie started, I think I need to start farther back>>
Yes, this was the hardest part! Thanks for leaving these moments in the video! Georgie’s questions were about the transition into the send at the start: This happened on the second rep at :13 and then later at :49, 1:10, 1:14, 1;21 – you were facing her, she was facing you – then you turned and pointed forward. This caused a disconnection so she leapt up in frustration and barked.
Compare to how you started on the very first rep, and at :32 – she was at your side and you were connected, very smooth! And then at 1:45, you gave yourself a head start so you could turn and face the barrel, then released with connection: LOVELY!
So at the start of each rep, you can line her up at your side, face the way you will be sending her, ask her to stay so you can be one step ahead – then connect and send. When you did that, the starts looked fabulous!
Bear in mind that the left turns might be harder for her, so you will want to show her a very smooth transition into the send with lots of connection into the left turns.
>>She gets excited, so I stopped her a couple of times to sit or down. At least one of those is shown.>>
I think it was not excitement, it was frustration, more like this: MOM I DON’T KNOW WHERE TO GO AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I GET THIS RIGHT lol! She is a very serious girl 🙂 who wants to get it right 🙂 The sit and down can be punishing to her, because she doesn’t know what went wrong or how to get it right in that moment, then she has to have a little time out… you can see at 1:30 she didn’t want to sit. So, if she barks and doesn’t commit on a start, you can assume that the connection was not clear enough and a smoother way to reset if something goes awry is call her back to your side and reset with the cookie at your side to re-start the next rep.
>.. She seemed to do better when I had a toy instead of food>>
I think she liked the food as the line up reward, and definitely preferred the toy as the main reward for all the action 🙂
>>I had trouble doing the sideways one, I don’t know why I couldn’t quite get that.
You had some really smooth moments of this, like at :33 and :37 and :43! I think you were maybe trying to rotate sideways a step or two too soon – you can run forward and decelerate while moving forward for another few steps, then you can try shifting to the sideways sending, that might feel smoother.
The spin looked great at 1:02 and the race tracks at the end looked great!!!
>.perhaps the barrels should be farther apart?>>
yes, you can move the barrels further apart, she will like that. With the increased distance, the line up to start each rep becomes even more important, so definitely emphasize that 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Can’t remember which previous class it was where we had started working on these but I was pleasantly surprised with this session as we haven’t done much with these verbals for several weeks.>>
I think it was CAMP over the summer, where there was a sitting game like this 🙂
He did well here, lots of successes!!!!
>> In this session I was holding on to his tab until I saw (or thought I saw) him lock on to the correct obstacle and then I let him go. Is that what I should be doing or should I be starting to just give the cue and see which one he takes?>>
Yes and no haha Holding him until he is looking the correct direction definitely helps and it is a good starting point – by changing where he was looking, he was asking “this one?” and if you let him go, that affirmed it (or if you kept holding him, he asked if it was the other obstacle). So it is a good start but in the next session, try to help less:
hold him and repeat the verbal 3 or 4 times and then let him go regardless of where he is looking (and keep repeating the verbal). That will take things to the next level for sure!
One thing to add in that next session: as you are repeating the verbals while holding them, make the verbals more different in sound – as if you were running a course and saying them You were really quiet here and my guess is that the tunnel verbal on a course would be bigger, louder, longer 🙂 It will feel weird doing it while sitting LOL!! But the volume/length/pitch all help him differentiate (versus the jump verbal which is quieter and more conversational.
So it is possible that my dogs don’t know the difference between tunnel and jump if said them both the exact same way – but they are able to differentiate between the ‘really long loud unnel type word’ and the ‘shorter less loud word’ LOL!!
And of course you can mix in the handling games where you both get to move 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> were you saying “Back” for the backside slice? I don’t think I should use that since I use that verbal for backing up. Is “Push” another verbal used for backside slice, or are there going to be any additional verbals I’ll need for backsides?
Yes, I was saying Back but lots of folks use Push – it is an effective verbal.
And yes, there is one more backside verbal (for the circle wraps) – I use dig dig dig for that.
>> We did Minny Pinny again last week and she did better with not knocking the bars. Wasn’t sure how to “lock” them in the jump cups.>>
It depends on the type of bars – most of my bars are hollow, so I can insert the jump cups into the bar. But some of my jumps have bars with caps on the end and they don’t have traditional jump cups- so I use bumps with those jumps instead of a bar.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>She SLEPT in the afternoon after that session. Haha
Perfect!!! A good sleep consolidates learning, so her big nap meant her brain was sorting out the lessons 🙂
>>A question on the Handling game 1:
I need help with the human mechanics. Is the Spin a Front Cross + Blind Cross? Or is it just a Blind Cross?>>Yes – the spin is the FC-BC move 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>> Then my phone storage filled up. I deleted the trash and somehow deleted all my good vidoes>>
Oh, I feel that pain! Accidental deletions and then realizing the camera was not on after a great session – those are the worst LOL!!!
This session went really well!!! She got everything correct when you were far ahead and when you were only a little ahead.
>> I screwed up on the connection when trying not to connect as well as looking at the wrong obstacle!!!>>
Right, that was an interesting moment to watch (at :45) – she didn’t take the jump but her response was still rewardable because you were saying jump but loking at the tunnel side – she went to the jump side (then when you connected more she came to the tunnel side, but didn’t take the tunnel. So totally a great response from her!!! Sometimes the rewardable behavior when we are saying jump is rewarding anything that is not the tunnel LOL!!
The disconnections are challenging, so you remember to just look ahead as much as possible and don’t add too much motion yet.
You can also add in starting very close to the wrap wing, so she is ahead of you going into the discriminations – rather than send to the wing and run away, you can start at the wing, let her finish her wrap, then move forward without a lot of speed while cuing one obstacle or the other (not sure if you already did this and it got deleted).
One other thing to consider: the pitch and rhythm of your wrap cue (sicsicsic) and your jump cue are very similar which makes it harder to discriminate. You might want to stretch the jump verbal so it is longer: juuuump juuuump versus sicsicsicsic.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is a super hard game and she had a lot of successes! She seemed to do best when you were standing, which is fine because it is really hard 🙂
>> The tunnel was her weakest in both exercises.
All dogs come to this game with a preference – and that is helpful to know because it also informs our handling choices and execution. So for tunnels, for now, you need to drive in more when you are moving and handling.
Because she was defintely not too interested in leaving you for the tunnel, you can take a couple of short sessions and just sit in a chair and send her to the tunnel (no jump involved)
I think the spin/bark moments are part of her processing during the tunnel sends (and some frustration because it is hard), so starting a shade closer to the tunnel, maybe 3 or 4 feet away) and NOT having the jump there for a session will help smooth that out. And then you can add the jump back in after a session or two – most of her sends to the jump were super smooth, and I don’t think she ever went to the tunnel when you said jump 🙂
And, separately, you can add in the handling games that will help her with the discriminations (and will build up even more value for the tunnel).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is definitely a hard game and she had a lot of successes!
Good job having your verbals sound different at first – try not to let your jump verbal get too loud as you get excited 🙂
She seems to want to do whichever obstacle she just did, so there was steam coming out of her ears when it was the other obstacle. But that is normal – this game is really hard and she was figuring it out really nicely!
You were helping her a tiny bit by turning her to face the correct obstacle on some of the reps. That is fine for now, because there was no other motion that she would normally expect to see. So on the next sessions, you can gradually work her back to center where her line up position is exactly the same each time and you are not helping by pointing or leaning her the correct direction.
Because this game is so hard, there might be errors 🙂 If she is wrong, call her back immediately and happily, and give a reset cookie – when you get quiet, she gets confused so you can give more immediate feedback in the form of either the thrown reward or a “good girlie come here try again”.
Great start here! You can keep revisiting this game but definitely now add in the handling games where you get to move 🙂
>>Should have had a few cocktails trying this.
Highly recommended hahaha
Tracy
Good morning!
He did really well here! He was able to find the obstacles really well with minimal movement from you. I say minimal because you were moving 🙂 by leaning towards the obstacle you wanted as you said the word. This is still a really good start because many dogs would need a LOT more movement in order to move to the obstacles. So on the next session, you can make it a little more of a challenge for him by holding his collar with him at your side, saying th everbal a few times… then let go and do not move a muscle LOL!! You don’t need to go to the chair yet – you can remain standing as that is plenty challenging.
And yo ucan also do the handling games where you get to move and handle too! We don’t want to make it all about this verbal-only game 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi! Nice work here – standing still is SO HARD for us humans!
Good job getting her started with the jump with just the verbal! It was BIG HARD for her and she let you know all about it haha! She is spicy! And having to move away rom the toy was also hard – but she worked through it and she did really well! By the end of the video she had several really great reps. Super!!! You did really well to stay patient, reset her when she didn’t go, and then get the reward to her when she went to the jump. I bet if you try it again in the next day or so, she will be even better at it (latent learning).
The tunnel session was challenging but seemed easier for her than the jump session. I think the hardest part was moving away from the toy: you can keep saying the tunnel verbal after she starts moving – that seemed to be very helpful for her especially in the early reps. You can see the slight processing delays at the end when she was starting between your feet… but she got it!!!
So for these verbal only games… do one more session on the jump as a verbal only and if that goes pretty well (doesn’t have to be perfect), you can move to the discrimination with both obstacles.
And in the meantime, you can also start the handling 1 game where you are moving 🙂
Great job!!!
TracyHello and happy birthday to Promise! A lot of dogs turn 2 years old this week!!!!
>>We had an interesting opening sequence the other day and she actually pulled off the tunnel>>
yes, that was interesting! I think it was because you were on the rear cross side so the tunnel turned away from you – and you called and started moving away before she was in the tunnel, so she was confused.
Looks like the bar down was on the spread – she might not be able to navigate the jumping and turning on the spread yet (the rest of the run looked good!). It was interesting to see her run past the a-frame: probably a processing issue (right up against the fence). It all falls into the “more experience needed” category 🙂 I know it can be frustrating, but she is FAR less feral on course than any of my dogs when they are not yet 2 LOL!!!
>>Currently in a K9 conditioning course and doing Fanny gotts jumping class. Also auditing Nina gregyls class. I know the bars are going to take time! I’m being very mindful of how much jumping we do too! Lots of rest days.>>
All great! Yay!
>>Also I leave for Italy Friday! Going with the high school for 10 days! Super excited! >>
Wait what?!?!?!?! I need more details, I LOVE ITALY! Where in Italy will you be? I am so excited for you!!!!
Tracy
Hello! Great to see you here!!! I am sure you had a blast with Rachel!
Have fun with the games 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>I felt like last time I tried that Tunnel Rocking horse that she did better to her right although this time to her left so I am still not sure if she is a lefty or righty.>>
The other pattern might be that she does better to whichever side she is seeing as the first and 2nd rep of the game – so you can warm up the game by showing both directions as wing-to-tunnel, then tunnel-to-wing, and then try putting it together.
<>>
Yes, that will end up being too early and cue the turn on the tunnel exit. If she hears it before or as she enters the tunnel, se is highly likely to turn on the exit which is what was happening.
>> I should give the wrap verbal for a jump just as she exits the tunnel. Since this is an early game and the wing is super close, is it okay to give the wrap verbal as she enters the tunnel or should I try to deliver it just before she exits the tunnel?>>
Even with the smaller distance, maintain the window of timing: so if you give her the wrap verbal as she enters the tunnel, she should not drive out straight to the wing. So give it to her as she exits the tunnel. If she doesn’t exit the tunnel straight, do some training of the tunnel-go-go-go reps and reward straight, so she is not exiting and trying to turn to you.
>>but I tried to do the pattern game when Julie was working Mitre. She couldn’t break her gaze from the other dog moving. I don’t know if we were at opposite ends of the arena if that might be enough distance but I am not sure it would be. She can get sort of stuck staring when she sees motion like that. I can see progress but it is very slow and I have to have a lot of distance.>>
Yes, increasing distance will be the first thing to try. And, changing to a different motivator will help too for most dogs. If food is not very motivating, she will stare at the movement of the other dogs because, well…. border collies. That is what they do! So try doing the pattern game with 2 tug toys replacing the food. The mechanics are different: you can have a toy in each hand and use a “bite” marker then engage her, rather than toss a ‘get it’ cookie.
I did this variation with Contraband using 2 frisbees, to help him NOT stare at or bark at or chase dogs running in flyball.
Keep me posted! Fingers crossed for good weather ahead!
Tracy
