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Hi!
>Should I be using the same cue for Threadle and Tandem turns? Or would it make sense to use different cues?>
Tandem turns are used in more places, so the verbal cue would depend on if the tandem takes place on the front of the jump or the backside of the jump. But since we are doing it on wings here, you use your threadle wrap cue as that is what it will look like the most when we do add jump bars. Let me know if that makes sense.
Tracy
Hi!
The backside game is off to a good start! Only one suggestion:
Be sure to look at her pretty directly as she is coming around the wing on the way to the backside (don’t look at the jump). You were looking forward to the jump and could probably see her peripherally, but she couldn’t see the connection – you can see her looking up at you to get more info especially on the first rep. Plus, looking ahead of her turns your shoulders to the front of the bar so that was the other reason she had a question at the beginning.As she exits the start wing, you can look right at her and say the backside verbal directly to her – that maintains the connection and keeps your shoulders pointed to the backside line too!
The last rep had the most connection so keep going with that! The connection will also allow you to start getting further and further from the backside wing.
The lateral lead outs are also going really well! Her stay looked great and she found the jump after the release every time. Super! You can add in being on the other side of the start wing, and the advanced games too!
You can also play with seeing if you point at the line to the jump, if she looks at the jump too. Then you can release when she looks at it. If she keeps looking at you, you can place a toy out past the jump to get her to look forward. That way we can begin applying the focus forward to the jumps too.
One suggestion on the verbals: if “ok” if the release to move forward, you will want to use a different word for when you throw a reward to her – OK and get it might also mean to go forward rather than get the reward being thrown to her. I use ‘catch’ there to keep things clear.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
I think what was happening in the outdoor videos was at first, you were trying to throw the toy to get him to take the jump after the release. But that ended up being confusing, because it was casing you to disconnect and throw which ended up rewarding *not* taking the jump. Then you were getting mad at him so he started looking away more and at the jump less.
It went better when you were placing the toy out on the line because it was clearer to him, or rewarding after he took the jump. When you did that, he was jumping looking at you a bit but that might have been from the first few reps where he got rewarded for not taking the jump.
It was easier when you were on the other side of the start wing (landing side of the jump) and you can see him looking at the jump a few times as you were leading out! Yay!
When you placed the toy at the end of the first video, he did not know you wanted him to look at it. Throwing it after you lead out and before you released definitely got him to look at it on the 2nd video!!
So to get him looking at the jump more – take it off the jump for a session and just have a toy on the ground. Start by leading out laterally when he is in a stay, then throw the toy like you did in the 2nd video. You can point to the toy (even if he is already looking at it) then you can release when he looks at it.
Do that for a few reps and if he can look at the toy after you have thrown it, switch it up: put the toy down, then line him up and lead out. Then point to the toy and release when he looks at it. That will relay the concept which is then pretty easy to transfer to a jump!
Let me know how it goes! It is also good to work outside because ut gives you so much more room. The distractions will disappear as he gets more experience with working outside.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
>I’m hopeful that I’ll be able to get Jazz in to see Dr. Canapp soon. Discussed (via email) with our chiro and she offered to make the referral thinking that might get us in sooner.>
And if there is a good soft tissue sports vet locally, you can rule out or rule in stuff before going to him too.
>She continues to be willing to “play the game”. >
She was very happy to work here! Super nice stay and she was very excited for the ball 🙂
Her form is looking good – nice thoughtful striding but also very speedy. Yay! She did really well ‘reading’ the distances and I bet the next time she sees rep 4, she will bounce it rather than do a collected one stride. Super!>Too late into the session I realized that you suggested using a food target so the ball may not have made the best target as I was throwing it. That is probably why she isn’t flattened out on the last jump as she is looking up for the ball. Next time I’ll get out pink piggy so I can place and drag it.>
Yes – that was why she was looking up. The pink piggy being dragged is probably the best option to keep her head lower on jump 3.
>I think she looks pretty good, although her color looks off in the second to last one. >
When I read this, I didn’t understand what you meant til I watched the video LOL!! 😂 Yes, I liked her costume change for that one rep hahahahahaha
You will have fun at the Invitational!
>The distances will be a challenge for us. >
I think you’ll do great – they are likely to be smaller than the distances at the WCO! And they should be intuitive. The only strange course will be Snooker because, well, it is Snooker. LOL!!!
Great job here!
TracyHi!
Yes, I tried to respond but you hadn’t posted the video hahahahaha
I don’t think it was a toy thing, I think it was a clarity of the serp arm/upper body.
On the first rep on each side, you released before your upper body was fully in serp position so it did read like a tunnel cue. At :07, your arm never really got back and your was it never rotated so he took the tunnel. You were clearer on the rest on that side so he did really well!When you changed sides: At 2:41, you kind of dropped the arm back simultaneously with the release so it was a little confusing. At 3:00 you said break before you showing the real serp cue.
3:21 was better in terms of the serp cue but also, there was converging motion past the jump so he was not sure of where to be, and was getting frustrated. Dialing back the motion so you could how the very very clear upper body before the release without converging will really help! When you are doing the serp, you can be moving into position with your serp arm already all the way back for several steps, so he is seeing the cue before the release and can nail it with motion.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think (but don’t forget to submit it hahahahaha)
TracyHi!
Kaladin’s get out is going well!
You can run in closer to the tunnel for the get out after it so you can stay in motion and not have to decel to wait at all.He was PERFECT at :20 – it was not your intended jump but it is exactly what you cued 🙂
You got the intended jump on the next rep when you were a little more patient . Yay!You can keep your feet straighter to the get out line to see if you can get even more distance – you were migrating to the get out jump and stepping to it, which got the behavior but also negated some of the distance and was contributing to him going wider at 1:43 for example
I was also using a brake arm on the get out jump to tighten it up (you might see a change in outside hand position there – hard to get it all in but it does tighten the turn!)
About the threadles: threadle slice to the FC looked lovely! He had questions about when you wanted the threadle wrap (like at 2:41 and after it) – you were cueing the threadle slice then trying to shift to the threadle wrap but that stopped him. A threadle wrap would be the only cue there, and but I probably wouldn’t use a get out as much because it puts you too far from the line there. A FC on the get out jump then a wrap on the next jump can help get that line.
>Are threadle wraps in wk 4? We need help there.>
Yes – they come in a week (this is the break week)
>And I don’t remember specifics other than that she did great balancing the get out with the go straight out of the tunnel and she did the get out to backside wrap pretty well. Sometime went sideways too and I honestly can’t remember what!>
Yay!! If there is no video of what went sideways, then it didn’t happen 😂 😆
That exit line connection on the jump before the tunnel was AMAZING! Look at that turn!!!
She needed regular connection at :40 to see the next tunnel – high arm blocked her view and turned you away from the line. Super lovely at 1:25!!!
Her teeter looked FREAKING AWESOME and so did the exit line arm on the jump after it! I think the pole blocked her view of the jump.
>I’m noticing the questioning bark she had approaching the 180 on the 2nd rep (about 1:18). Was I turning towards the jump a bit too soon and closing off the connection to her as I was thinking about getting across the jump after it for the backside slice?>
Yes – she was like WHY ARE YOU RUNNING WITH YOUR ARM UP LIKE THAT IT BLOCKS MY VIEW HOOOOOMAN AND YOUR SHOULDERS ARE TURNING AWAY
Tell your dog side arm that it is not needed to point to the line 🙂 You can just run with your arms low, look at her, yell things 🙂 sometimes toss in an outside arm.
>Unfortunately we’re also still struggling with handling arousal levels around motion which usually shows up as challenges on being able to function while getting into the ring in many situations (certainly trials which is why we haven’t been doing much of that lately, sometimes seminars & classes, but I can work on it better in those since we can pattern game with food around the area or into the ring).>
We need to get her doing some flyball foundations. Not kidding. Those are all about arousal levels with motion. We can modify it because you won’t have as many people around to help – let me know the next time you are sharing a rental with other people and I will give you a plan.
When she is watching dogs in the ring, can she walk around and ‘check in’ with you by looking at you, without a pattern game in progress? That is definitely something to start rewarding, starting as far from the movement as needed so she can check in.
>and it was after she did so well going into the ring (without being carried) on her first turn. She also went in on her own power for the 2nd turn as the previous dog was leaving from the other side.>
You might have to pick what you work on – either going in the ring on her power and then doing really easy sequences, or being carried and doing hard sequences. Doing both might be too depleting.
> I waited a bit longer on the start line because she kept flicking her gaze over to Leanne who was moving a little bit.>
What would she do if you took off the leash and lined her up in that moment?
On the first throw,
I don’t think she saw it that well, because the throw didn’t really correlate to where she was looking and it was towards the people outside the ring – you can just throw it again or toss a cookie at her, rather than discuss with her. It was the lengthy discussion and not getting the cookie which might have tipped her over even moreThen when you came in to the same spot (but much better throw) the next time, the discussion from the previous rep (plus perhaps the pressure of throwing reward towards the crowd) remained.
So if she gets aroused for whatever reason (it is sometimes hard to know a reason in the moment), the first plan is to decompress the arousal – not try to re-engage or settle her or ask her to do something, just decompress. So yes, a treat scatter will help especially if she did not get the reinforcement from the sequence. 5 or 6 big meatball chunks will likely do the trick 🙂
>but if she’s too far gone, she won’t choose to be touched.>
Yes, most dogs don’t want to be touched so a different decompression is going to work better – throwing a bunch of treats, or letting her run around with a toy, or whatever she finds fun to do that is also involving what you probably use for reinforcement.
Also, what was the rate of success in the session? Had there been bloopers where you stopped running? Any stop of flow can be interpreted as a failure from the dog, even if you give her a cookie. So if there were failures and the challenge of ignoring motion, it might have piled up into frustration.
>I’m pulling together some videos of examples of when she lunges at motion. It feels like she’s still struggling with adolescent lizard brain moments (she will be 3 at the end of June) so part of me says to just wait it out and let her grow up more, but I also don’t want her rehearsing undesirable behavior.>
I don’t think they really outgrow it, so it is better to train it! And I know no one wants to hear it, but flyball foundations are really the BEST. All of it is involves being able to tune out motion of other dogs and people while working. Maybe I will do a little webinar on Flyball Foundations For Agility Dogs 😂 I have done that in person a few times and it is well-received!!
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>I knew when I did that first lap turn that I was way too fast. LOL>
Yes, you had an excellent adjustment to slow it down.
>I use the opposite arm for with Scotch. His verbal for a tunnel threadle is “close close” and for a threadle slice, its “in in”. And yes please, I would like to stay consistent with the verbals for Phire.>
Perfect! Then keep using that opposite arm, make it exactly like you would do with Scotch 🙂
T
Hi!
The retrieve video is looking good! He really likes that little frisbee thing and was doing a good job trying to solve he puzzle here 🙂
Yo can keep upping your criteria: small rewards for lifting the toy, BIG rewards for bringing it to you. You can even add in bringing it to a destination: I like adding in bringing it to a giant bowl, and the noise it makes for hitting the bowl is the ‘click’. Then when they can do that, I replace the bowl with my hand and reward for him putting it in my hand.Here is a session of ‘in the bowl’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6xrtHNNhA
He was probably tired by the end which is why he was hanging out mainly chewing on the toy – the brain games tire the pups out faster than the running games 🙂
Looking at his mat behavior – he is showing a TON of value for his mat in the first video! In the second video – he is going over the mat but looking at you, so let’s take your movement out of the picture so you don’t build in looking up at you.
Since we have plenty of time before he sees an actual dog walk, here is a foundation game play with him that uses an elevated mat, gets his eyes off of you, and gets you marking his rear feet on the mat (not front feet, which is what you were marking on these videos):
Secure the mat to a raised platform, and you are doing to sit on something and stare at the platform: mark the 4th foot hitting it when reward back at you. He will then need to get back across it and you can make the 4th foot the other direction.
Here is the smaller BorderPap-ish dog’s first session as a pup:
Here is the big dog’s first sessions – it is easier to see his back feet so you can ee what I am marking:
Great job here! Have fun!
Tracy
Hi!
>Reading over the next homework. Is Dublin solid enough on his prop that we can move on?>
Yes! He is ready.
>On the jump bump. I have the larger one from max 200. Is that ok to use?>
I have a Max200 bump that is about 2 inches high – is it that one? If so, yes, that is good! If it is 4 inches, it might be a bit too high and wide for now. A bump replacement for now can be a rolled up towel 🙂 because it still teaches the concept.
T
Hi!
>I had used what I thought was a more amazing treat but I guess I was wrong 🤣. >
Ha! He is at the age where the great treats of yesterday might be the boring treats of today LOL! And also, you can sometimes try starting with toy play! He loves to tug, and tugging can shift his arousal state in a good way where he can focus more. Feel free to experiment to see what works best.
I had done mini sessions of the pattern game in other locations and he did well. this seemed the hardest so far. I wonder if the noises from the other room and not seeing things that made the noise was harder than the huge room with tons of people like our test location. >
That is an excellent point, about not seeing the sources of the noise. And also, does The Farm still have sheep? He might have had to process sheep smells wafting in from outside. And the turf pellets might have lovely smells too.
>Overall it was hard since I didn’t have a crate I could put him in for break when setting up next exercise. I will move him to the van for breaks next time.>
Excellent point too! Letting him chill in the car will provide a nice brain break for him.
> We start in person class at this location Thursday night so I will try the pattern outside the ring again and get video.>
Try to video everything in the class. Bring a tripod 🙂 Having video will help you know what is happening while he is working (it is nearly impossible to handle a puppy in a class AND be aware of everything else) plus having video of him at this super cute early stage will be a lifetime of smiles 🙂
>I was totally thrilled with his toy play here. I wonder about practicing my recalls with a toy more too in these settings since he has shown such high value. Overall his recalls seem to be getting harder as he gets older and more distracted.>
Yes – definitely use more toys 🙂 My youngsters have ‘home toys’ which are fine and all… but special “new place” toys which are amazing and wonderful and very enticing. Those toys live in the car so I never forget them 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi!
Nice job on the lap turns! She has a bit of a discrimination challenge because you also had cookies in the other hand and she is clearly *starving* hahaha.
She did great! The only question she had when coming to your left side was when you moved your hand a little too fast to cue the turn, but then you were perfect on all the other reps. She was perfect coming to your right side.
The tandem turns also looked really good! She seemed to have no questions at all and was great in both directions. I think by the end you both needed more excitement, so you can take this game outside and add the prop: that way after the turn away, she can drive to the prop and you are both moving. I will be more exciting that way 🙂
Remind me: do you use the outside arm for Scotch’s threadle wraps/tandems, or the inside arm (or both?) We can match what you do with him to what you do with her, because it is much easier to do it the same way with both dogs 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Tracy
Hi! The lap turns are going well! She is following the hand cues beautifully. Remember to use your foot to step back as you turn her away, then let her find the prop before you throw the treat. You can add in having the prop even further away, so she has to move away to find it – distance training!
Great job here! Have fun at puppy class tonight and I am looking forward to the tandem turn video!
Tracy
Hi!
>Thinking of verbal cues… I want to teach her a cue for left and right wraps, can I say Check for left & Dig for right? >
Absolutely! Those are excellent choices because you can repeat them rapidly and quietly: checkcheckcheck and digdigdig for example. That helps to match the deceleration into a tight collection.
> Anyway, can these be my L & R wrap cues which is a 180 turn and then use ??? for a soft turn – anything that is not a 180? Switch I’ll use for turn away from me, but I don’t know what to say for those soft turns! >
I use left and right for those soft turns 🙂 Not very creative 😂 but it works for me. We have a game coming soon that specifically introduces them in a very very easy way to train them (because with all these words, we totally want easy ways to train them!)
Great job adding in your verbals to the wraps! She did a great job ignoring the bowl until after she finished the wrap, in both directions. Only one blooper of going to the bowl instead of the barrel 🙂 You handled that really well and the rest was perfect 🙂
Two mechanics suggestions to add for the next session:
– rather than hold her collar after you put treats in the bowl, you can reward her with treats for moving with you back to the barrel (you can also put a toy on the ground intake of the bowl)
– when you get to the barrel, hold her collar longer: let her hear you say the verbal 3 or 4 times before you let her go. That will really solidify the verbal. You were saying it and sending her at the same time, so the motion takes priority in her brain. If you say it a few times then let her move, the verbal will link to the movement even better.
And of course you can add in a front cross at the barrel because that gives you a little extra handling challenges and teaches her t watch for handling cues too!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>I had planned to do barrel wraps today but became obsessed with the rear cross. >
I can totally relate to getting obsessed with things LOL!
>I made the mistake of using the clicker board instead of the blue mat so now Tribute is consistently doing a rear cross to the left and consistently spinning when going to the right (spins are a favorite trick). I stopped when I realized that I might be clicking for the spin.>
I don’t think it was the clicker mat causing it – it was the timing. On the left turn reps, you were getting the info a little sooner so he was picking up the left turn. The info he was seeing was pressure on the line to the left turn, and the reward throw.
On the right turn sides, you were still fully on the left turn side when he was arriving at the mat, so he turned left 🙂 Good boy!
One thing that might help is starting with a wing wrap that is 15 feet away from the mat – start right next to him at the wing so you both move forward at the same time. Then as he is passing you, you can get behind him to be fully on the new side. That should get him turning in the correct direction, both ways.
I grabbed some visuals because that might make more sense 🙂
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YRgSU3Z2rBa0cm1CZHHwTCaPX8qVuTA7HHDfLpflhFE/edit?usp=sharing
For the teeter: he can definitely climb around on it, he seemed very confident 🙂 Yay! For now, take out most of the movement of the board That is partially because he is still learning to balance on it and was not quite fully stable yet 🙂 Plus, he is very young and we want to avoid the impact on his joints. So you can do the mountain climbing but the board would be touching the ground and the top part (resting on the chair should only tip a half inch).
For the bang game, you can teach him the end position but the board should move less than half an inch for now. The sports vet people tell me that the teeter has pretty massive orthopedic impact, so they want us to wait until after a year or more of age to introduce a lot of movement of the board.
>I had a few minutes left on the rental so I finished with a straight tunnel. I think next time I will use a toy to get more running from him.>
Yes! I think he really had fun 🙂 That looked great! And yes, you can definitely add in the toy, that will make it even more fun.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
He was so funny at the beginning, telling you which side to start on (“I will be on your left side, hoooman”)He did a great job here!! I like you how got him started with a couple of good reps then added the challenge of the toy on the ground. That was a great way to break it down and get success.
He only had one question – when you did it on your right side he looked longingly back at the toy 🙂 but you still had your hand on his collar and so he ended up very successful there.
Ignoring the neighbor dog was hard but you can try using more tugging to get him stimulated enough to totally ignore the neighbor dog. Darned neighbor dogs who always seem to know when the camera is on LOL!
And he was great about bringing the toy back for the ‘do you want a cookie’ trade. It was a fun way to let him have his toy party AND get it back quickly. Love it!
Great job here!
Tracy
