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Hi!
Looking at the Turn and burn videos –
He had no trouble transferring this to the wing, he is committing and turning really well! And great job to you for trading the toy for treats, and using your bite marker.You can add in holding his collar so you can cue the start of each rep very cleanly – sometimes he started without you, sometimes he was waiting for you, and sometimes he was not sure which side of the wing to go to (like at :08 on the 3rd video). So if you gently hold his collar, you can start the verbals, then let him go and indicate that he should start. And you can add in the wrap verbals while you are holding him before he starts, to help build up the verbal too (try not to say go, because it is a turn :))
This will also allow you to start to do the FC and run the other way even sooner, which he seems totally ready for. His commitment looks super strong so you can try starting the FC before he even arrives at the wing, to see how much countermotion you can add on.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
These are also looking good, especially the threadles!!
You can have your arm up higher here too – he doesn’t have to touch your hand, so the hand can be just below your shoulder height (which is probably where it will want to be when you start to run :))
You had the food bowl on the ground as the reward target here which is great! You can change the position of it to create more of a true serp so he comes in then turns back out. In this setup, the bowl should be more like where the pole is so he comes over the bar then turns to his left to go back out, while you move parallel to the jump. Your line at :59 was parallel to the jump, which is correct! Compare to 1:16 and the reps after it – your line on those was pulling back away from the bar, which got him to come over it but was not quite a full serpentine.
He had one blooper at :59 where he went around the jump. Your line was good but he was watching the treats in your right hand and went to them. So we definitely don’t want the reward coming from you, to get him to watch the bar more and not your hands. And as you move through, you can exaggerate looking at the landing spot more. The toy or a MM on the ground will help get his eyes on the line more. Plus, if you use a food bowl, you can place the cookie in it before you start the rep rather than than drop it in after, at this stage.
If you are thinking to yourself: but he might just run to the toy or cookie 🙂 Then now is a good time to take a detour into teaching him to ignore the reward on the ground until you cue it with a marker 🙂 You can do it by putting the reward on the ground, asking him for a hand touch (on the side of you opposite the toy) then saying your get it marker after he touches your hand.
The bowl placement for the threadles was really good on the 2nd video!! He did really well coming in for the threadles every time! You don’t need to say break and close – close is a release word and it means threadle (break generally means ‘front side’) so the different verbals will help him out.
To help get the default of finding the jump bar without cues from you, you can change to a toy on the ground instead of a bowl or a manners minder. He was watching your cookie throw to go back out to the jump but if the reward is already placed out there, he will find the jump more independently (which is what we want :)) Plus, it is a great impulse control game!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>Using an iPad, and when I try to play the videos on the Agility site here, most of the time I get the spinning wheel of death, but it never loads and plays?>>
Do you happen to know which iOs or update your iPad is using? We send that info along to the software people so they can keep up with Apple updates.
Really nice job with the serps here! Time to add a little more motion – you can have your serp arm a little higher and you can look a little further back to the landing spot (which will open your shoulder more) as you add more and more motion. Go from slow waking to faster walking, to jogging 🙂
The other next-step here is to have the reward already on the ground – either a toy or a Manners Minder. That way he goes out to it without watching you at all 🙂
Tracy
hi!
I agree, that YES habit is hard to break 🙂 But eventually we all get better at it LOL!! Keep me posted on how she does with the toy on the ground.Tracy
Whew, that is a relief. Do you have any good soft tissue people who can get their hands on him? Dr. Leslie Eide is one of my very favorites (she was a huge help to me during the pandemic without ever meeting the dog in person!) but I don’t know how far from you she is. Soft tissue people are amazing!
Also, I recommend the Assisi loop if you can borrow one – there is good enough science behind it that I am happy to use it, and it is an easy, non-invasive way to help the dogs.
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>>I had tried it on top of the TnT before and she will sometimes go to grab the toy before being released to it. I want to avoid that if I can. I am really going to try to keep the pressure off her when she has a miss since it worries her.>>
I don’t think the miss was what worried her… it was your response to the miss which was causing her response. You were pretty upbeat to misses in this video here, and hopefully gave a reset cookie – you didn’t try to dive on the MM or prevent her from getting the reward.
But with that in mind… it is time to teach her to be able to work with the toy on the ground or on top of the MM. Yes, we can keep avoiding it LOL but then she want learn the impulse control/stimulus control elements we need on all of these games (and in agility in general).
So, rather than using a jump, work the toy marker stimulus control separately with the Strike A Pose game. She is in a stay, the toy is on the ground or on top of the MM (either is fine, as long as the toy is available at all times) – you release her to touch your hand, then say your get it marker so she can get the toy without waiting for you to move to it. We take the jump out of it so any failures are not associated with the jump.
Sure, she is going to make an error – but that is fine because there is no such thing as 100% errorless learning. The trick is in how you respond to the error. Don’t try to stop her from getting the toy, that worries her. She can get it, you can tell her she is cute, have a laugh, but don’t play – just call her back to the start spot, trade the toy for a reset cookie, and try again. When she is correct about ignoring the toy til she hears the get it marker – then you can have a BIG happy play party. They learn the difference pretty quickly without us needed to prevent access to the toy.
>>This is how I used the toy in the TnT. Is this what you meant? I have some treats in it still. I would put the toy in, ask for a hand touch, click the TnT, go over to it (or half the time I would tell her to get the treat that came out), I would remove the toy, tug and repeat. Usually, after she tugged, if there were still some treats in the dispenser, I would have her get them before we started again. I did put the beep on (I have never used it) and she didn’t seem to mind it.>>
Yes, this was a good start for building value for the TnT! She was figuring out the threadle pattern nicely here, with the TnT as the reward station. Her right turns looked really good! The left was harder on the ‘go back out’ over the bump element of it but she was getting it – so keep moving more slowly when she is on your left turning to her left.
And try not to use “yes” at all – if the TnT is the focal point, then it is a get it. “Yes” and praise draws the pup’s focus to us, which we don’t want (and I totally understand that we somehow manage to say yes all the time, myself included LOL!!)
>>I felt like I saw a much happier eager pup on this game in regards to going to the TnT to get her treat and eagerly wanting her tug game. >>
Yes! I think two things happened that made her happier on the video, even with errors:
– the TnT had more value (toy over food) so she was a lot happier to go to it.
– your response to errors was happy too, and there was no physical pressure with you trying to prevent her from going to the TnT. I couldn’t tell if you gave her reset cookies or not, but hopefully she got reset cookies. 🙂
>>also her struggle at times with the behavior. I thought she understood this better than she does so I need to revisit the basics.>>
She is in a really good place in the progress – totally normal to have some misses as we add motion, and to see a side preference.
And, as I am reminding everyone at this point… she is fully adolescent right now, so it is also totally normal that she might “know” something on Monday but wake up not “knowing” it on Tuesday. That is simply brain development in adolescence and nothing to worry about. If she wakes up and doesn’t know it? Go do something else, rather than put more pressure on. Understanding what is happening in the brain will make for a much happier training progression and far fewer WTFs!!! with our teenage dogs 🙂
But definitely don’t skip the step where she learns to work with a toy on the ground! It is pretty important for these games and other things in the future too. That is an easy one to do in the house while there is still snow on the ground.
One last detail: Have your hand in position while you are already moving, so you don’t release at same time as the hand cue moves. That can cause her to think the hand moving is the release, because she will prioritize motion (of the hand) over the verbal release.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyYou might be experiencing some adolescent brain stuff too – the more I learn about what is happening in their brains at this stage, the more I understand why they do crazy things LOL!!! It is possible with the regular tenny that her teenage brain is telling her that she 10000% nailed it 🙂 And the eating the softer balls might be a frustration behavior (ewww, this ball is gross, why am I on this ball, let me self-soothe by chewing/eating/destroying).
So rather than increase any pressure by switching balls or insisting on certain behavior, the behaviorists tell us that we will make better progress by backing off – be super predictable, do less not more, let the brain develop. And if on any given day, a “trained” behavior has disappeared – no worries, we just try again another day. The behaviorist vets/neuroscientists have shown the studies to supper all this – causing me to chill out a whole lot with these young dogs LOL!!
So the answer might not be in which ball, the answer might be in take a break because the box work/retrieve is a little too much for a one year old pup 🙂 Let her brain mature, then try again. She is already pretty mature so it will happen pretty quickly!
Tracy
Hi!
>> I GAVE the old guy the wrong direction names, THATS just pitiful!
Ha! Not pitiful at all! Somewhere I have an entire demo video where my left and right verbals were reversed. LOL!! OOPS!!!! I didn’t notice, I thought it was a great session… then I watched the video before posting it. OOPS! haha
And the dogs are forgiving. For something like this, it takes multiple sessions to get the verbals attached, so no worries at all.
>>I need a white board with lefts and rights, plus the whole nine yards of verbals! Was funny, I didn’t even realize that I was doing it.>>
That is why I like to buy a little time by holding the dog before I start, so I can be sure the verbals are correct LOL
>>I have noticed that on a stay he defaults to a down, I didn’t feel very strongly about whether he sat or was down in a stay. But the hand que, without the verbal, he sits nicely. AND add to the white board to work BOTH sides.>>
A sit or a down are both effective start line positions for him. I think what we want to avoid is the movement from one position to the other, because that could easily become movement forward (creeping forward) or breaking the stay. So if you want the down, ask for the down. And if you want the sit, ask for the sit and don’t say stay. He might still want to do the down (it might be more comfy in a high arousal moment) and that is fine, you can go with the down. Plenty of top level BCs start from a down!
>>I loved it when he took the toy to the prop! He was having such fun! I was watching carefully for any movement of him wanting to break, he’s just a hoot.>>
I agree, he is so fun!! And he did a great job with his stay games.
>>Keeping watch for him when we’re trying to reconnect makes sense, I wasn’t sure if coming along side was enough or if I needed him him to be full looking at me, THANKS>>
One of the things to look for in this find my face game is actually the dog NOT doing something – like jumping up, barking, spinning, or biting us. (Or sniffing, but he doesn’t seem like the sniffing type). When we mess up and the dogs get frustrated, adolescent dogs with drive like he has can get BIG MAD and do things like bite us. So if he is patiently waiting and looking at you, waiting for the next info… highly rewardable!!!!
>>I WAS sooo not sure of my placement, ESPECIALLY with a BC, I’ve never done them before these classes!
You are doing AWESOME!!!!! Learning it through video is a little harder but you are nailing it!!!!
>>WOW, I never thought of the praise as being a distraction, but you’re right, the get it made it much more effective and clear.>>
Yep, praise is a pain LOL!! Somehow, we all have taught the pups to come to us when we say and exciting “yes!” or praise – so they look at us. The ‘get it’ type markers are very clarifying for the dogs and helps them know where to go 🙂
T
Just curious, were you using a Mac or iPad/iPhone, or an android or PC? Sometimes when Apple updates their software, the iPads, iPhones and Macs have trouble talking to this software.
Good morning!
>>– It was only after I watched the video that I realized I was clicking on the front foot hits. I was trying to click the rear. Oi!
I can relate! It was probably because you were watching him and not the space in the box. In fact, I did the same thing today and actually clicked CB for jumping over the contact on the dog walk (because I was watching him and not the contact zone). Fun times! LOL!
>>– I initially did do several sniff-type walks. I will get back to that.
Schedule it in on your calendar 🙂 During this stage, it is just as important as any skill we train. And after a training session, you can scatter kibble in the grass or on a bathroom rug with high pile so he can sniff for a little bit. It really helps the dogs.
>> If I am reading your comments right, I will toss a cookie and use get it for a few sessions. Then we’ll progress to a MM.>>
Yes – as you already have experienced, the running contacts experience has many layers 🙂 so for now, just getting the back and forth with treats is good. Before the MM, let’s add you walking back and forth and also a little more lateral distance so he arcs out to get into the box or on the mat.
What exactly his running contact experience will be? Hard to know, but we can adjust things as he needs them. His movement and structure lead me to think he will be fitting nicely into the tried and true rear foot targeting methods.
Tracy
Yikes!!!!
A harder ball might help, but definitely working the ball retrieve separately from the excitement of the box will help too.Yes – it adds the board to it pretty easily. The Skidmarkz trainers outlined the entire progression – I loved it! And i am super picky hahaha I will video as I go so you can see it. Ramen won’t be doing any more of it til the summer when he is a year old, but I will be re-training Hot Sauce’s box with it (she had terrible foundations then a long time off to fix the knee)
>>She is currently getting her ball off the box but loves the ball way too much.
Try a boring ball like a squishy marshmallow ball hahahaha!
>>I am working with Shelly of course 🙂 but potentially she has it. I know, this is an agility forum but since you started it 🙂>>
Shelly is awesome!!
Good morning!
>>There was a lot more noise and action than I was anticipating but I was impressed as well with how he remained working and focused.>>
Yes! And in the video you posted today – so much noise, people, etc- he was awesome!!!
>>From Jamie’s mouth to your ears🤣🤣🤣. She was telling me the same thing.>>
Bwahahaha I am going to buy Jamie a round of drinks and snacks the next time I see her 🙂
“And definitely get the toy play involved in all of this” — I’m not sure why I didn’t use the toy as well. not like me,honestly.>>
I think you were getting caught up in the skills, and we can get more reps in easily with food (same with the video above). So make sure you always bring the toy with you.
“d it is fun to see how he gives such great feedback on mechanics!!” – between you, Jamie and Audie,hopefully I can up my game.>>
That is the thing with training young dogs – they have so much to teach us 🙂 Jamie learned a lot from her dogs and it is SO COOL to see how easily she can pass it along. The dogs give the feedback, it is us humans who try to translate it 🙂
Tracy
