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Hi! (I know the post above about Emmie has not come through yet, because the internet is being NAUGHTY here!)
I agree, this went really well! Nice framework of your walk through! But it will all go much faster so try to add that into the walk through – it is really hard to do the full speed at a trial, so doing it at home will really lock you into his timing and the pace you need to run at.
The run went really well! Fully connected and fast! Definitely try to match the walk through to that, so he can produce first runs like this all the time 🙂
T
Good morning!
Sorry for any delay in getting this reply, I am not actually sure when the internet gods here will let me post it (at a trial and cell reception is very spotty).I remember you said that these were harder looking but WOWZA I think you did a great job!!
You made strong handling choices, and tried some different options on turns – not super important which was faster at this stage, it is more about being able to show her cues for ALL the things 🙂 And you did! Yay!
Pop out 3 –
On the walk through – it think your pan is pretty clear! You can say your verbals more like you say them in the run, and sooner. And also – try to move faster on the walk through because you have to move faster on the run! Connection all looked good! Timing was less clear on the parts that she went wider on – more below.The Back push to dig in the opening looked great (:29-:33 and :52. -:55 and 1:20 – 1:23). That is some seriously challenging jumping and she was great!
You can rotated towards her more (and sooner -decel before she passes you and rotate as she is passing you) on 4 (:35 and :57 and also 1:23 when going the other direction). That will tighten it up a little.
>She’s still jumping long on these 180 turns. What else do I need to do?>>
I think you are talking about the Right turn at :37 and :59 and 1:26. You were just late 🙂 That is why she went wide. As she is exiting the previous jump, you should be saying your right verbal a few times and let her see you moving laterally away. The timing her was after she had reached the halfway point between the 2 jumps, so her takeoff decision was already made.
The other wide spot was the exit of the backside (German-ish) turn at :39 and 1:01. SUPER Nice connection to the landing spot as you moved through, but you are late getting past the wing so she is wide – you can see on those reps that you were on the landing side as she was talking off.
Check out the much better position passing the wing to the takeoff side as she was on the takeoff side at 1:28 on the backside and you got a much better turn! Yay!
The other tricky part is the spin at the end – :44 did look like a FC, and you overcompensated a little at 1:06 and it was a little late.
I liked your spin at 1:30! At first it looked like you were going to get too far ahead but nope – you nailed the timing of the decel and the spin! Super!!!
Pop out 4 – loved the connections n the walk through! And you were faster in your pace (which also helped you say the verbals more like you say them in the run – repeated, not just once :))
First run – opening looked great!
Oh wait, the WHOLE FIRST RUN LOOKED GREAT!!! HUZZAH!!! Yay for you BOTH!! Loved it!!!2nd run – you were not quite as out of the way of the landing spot of 2 so the bar dropped, and you missed the landing spot connection shift on the backside at :44 but I do love that you were really driving past the jump! Your position was fantastic!!!
>>Back side to serp still a work in progress.>>
Really high rate of success with that on both of these videos!
And the last run looked terrific too 🙂 Super happy with all of this!!!
>>So, I did the threadle wrap for her. It went better than expected>>
Heck yeah! Check out the in in threadle wrappy turns that you nailed EACH time here. YES!!! Very cool to see the training come into the sequences!
>>. If I wanted to wrap to the inside would it be a double lap turn? You’ll see I chose the back side push to a wrap.>>
If you do the threadle side of 2, then yes, one option is a double lap turn (Lordy, that is a LOT of handling though LOL!!!) The other option is to Blind cross between 2 and 3 (tricky timing, as soon as she turns to look at 2 you do the BC) and then push to the backside.
I think the way you did it to turn to the outside was the best way – smooth and clear and very fast!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! (I know the post above about Emmie has not come through yet, because the internet is being NAUGHTY here!)
I agree, this went really well! Nice framework of your walk through! But it will all go much faster so try to add that into the walk through – it is really hard to do the full speed at a trial, so doing it at home will really lock you into his timing and the pace you need to run at.
The run went really well! Fully connected and fast! Definitely try to match the walk through to that, so he can produce first runs like this all the time 🙂
T
Good morning!
I have looked at all of these and overall, this is great because it gives us an idea of what you naturally do that makes things easier, and what you can add to your walk through to be able to nail it the first time. This is a perfect time to do this because we have are getting ready to enter big event season! Yay! I will post some comments and thoughts with each video, then a bigger summary with the last video 🙂
On this first video:
Thanks for posting the walk throughs! I feel like you are really good at walking the frame of the plan, and running it the frame of the plan… but not taking into account where exactly the dog will be, where to connect (like on the layering Ines and exits of the backsides), and when to leave for the next Iine. That is where the bloopers are coming from.So we will focus a lot on rehearsing running the invisible dog to see his/her commitments and how fast you need to be to execute the plan – more on that below 🙂
Run 1 – at the beginning, you were being too helpful to get the first backside only evident line was to the tunnel.
You were clearer there on the 2nd run , he just needed more support to commit to 5. Try not to stop on a missed jump, keep going because it is excellent practice for thinking on your feet!
At 1:46, things tipped the other way – now you are watching him but not executing the plan 🙂 looks like you were late on the threadle and then in his way to get him to it.
Last run was best! You were really locked into all the elements: check out how fast you have to move 😉 Pretty darned fast!!!) You can add more connection on the backside wrap exit at the end, he was wide there because he didn’t know which side to be on.
Nice work! Onwards to Emmie!
Hi!
>>It feels like the closer I go to the jump, the rather behind I’ll be getting to the next line, but if I’m not trying to “handle” it with my shoulders as you also mentioned, I should be able to leave earlier. >>
Exactly! You can leave sooner because you handle a lot less.
>>I know with the threadle wrap you said my feet should be facing the next line, not the jump she’s wrapping. Is that true for the threadle slice as well?>>
No – the feet on the threadle slice face the landing spot. That is part of what differentiates them from the threadle wrap.
On the video – the first walk and the first run looked good! I think the main thing to add to the walk through is the isolated moment of when she acknowledges commitment and what exactly it looks like – especially to tunnels which seem to be her least favorite thing.
>>Again, her questions were pretty much when I left early.>>-
Yes – either leaving for the next line before she is committed, or looking ahead too early (which is basically the same thing :))
So you can reframe what you remind yourself during the walk through – rather than “watch her head” you can tell yourself to “Keep moving along the line and wait for her to begin driving to the obstacle – that is the cue to move to the next line”. That should smooth out the litter blooper of pulling her off the tunnel at :35 and her question at :58. She was not clear on the cue at :58 either because puling away was on your mind and showing in the body language there 🙂 So from the landing of the jump before the last tunnel you would need to be looking at her and moving towards the tunnel until you see her lock onto it – she is probably going to be about 6 feet from the entry -that is your cue to move to the next line.
2nd run – the walk through has a nice low arm and lots of connection, but on the first run you end up pointing forward a lot, with your arm parallel to your shoulder (that was the source of her questions on 5 and 7). On the 2nd run, you had the same low arm and strong connection as the walk through – NICE!
So to make the first run look this good 🙂 be sure to remind yourself to lock the dog side arm down and back. It is possible you need to do more ‘go fast’ walk throughs to get the arm locked in, so you don’t have to think about it and so it is easy on the first run. Rather than doing it once, do it 3 or 4 or 5 times to really get the flow – then watch your video of the walk through. When I do the go fast walk throughs at home, I am out of breath like I just ran it, so I wait til I am fine again before I run the dog : )
3rd walk through -Watching this, I think there can be more connection back to your invisible dog in the middle section. I think you are looking too far forward in 3-4-5 which might get a question on 5, and the spin might be late. Then while she was in the tunnel, you were looking ahead of her to the backside. So remember to look at where she will be so you can maintain connection and timing all the way through.
On the first run, she did have a question at 5 from looking too far forward (and high arm pointing forward) and also the bar at the backside (late FC).
The 2nd run was definitely clearer , but more connection back to her will be the key element to add when planning. On the 4-5 line at 2:53, she was behind you and not sure where to be (bark bark!) until motion helped her out there – so make the big connection to her to get her to the line even before she takes off for 4.And the Fc on the backside was definitely better! The timing on that would be as soon as she passes the plane of the entry, which is basically just before she gets to the entry edge of the backside wing. So as she is exiting the tunnel, you are running to position and decelerating, setting up the FC collection.
You were doing the FCs as she was taking off, which makes it harder for her to set up the collection over that bar.Very nice connection to the end!
Overall, the runs are looking really good and you are tackling the most important skill… the walk through! When that is really comfortable, you will find that the courses run much better on that first run 🙂 It is all beginning to click into place, which is very cool to see!
Tracy
Hi!
Bummer about the walk through video getting turned off! Technology is a pain sometimes LOL!!!
>>In the rep you see first, he breaks his stay, my bad! I should’ve given him a toy and played a few seconds before starting over. >>
Yes, definitely a little anticipation on the release when you moved when in position – and yes to playing with him if the error on the first rep was human error 🙂 And be sure there is no movement on the release on lead outs like there – there is movement on the release in the 2nd rep when you turn, face him, and move your hand & release simultaneously. So I can see his argument that there might have been a release on the first rep on the video 🙂 . Be sure to put your hand in position, freeze… then release 🙂
He is reading the threadle really well! So you don’t need to step him to #2 at all, then 🙂 Hold position til he turns his head to 2 – then you leave directly to 3. That extra step or two might not make a huge difference on this sequence, but it will help on a bigger course for sure!
The rest looked really great! You might have been a bit ‘extra’ in your intensity calling on to turn on the exit of the last tunnel – it was a “Break Glass In Case Of Emergency” call and he came out in huge collection, looking at you LOL!! So you can call him normally and trust that he will turn.
The threadle wrap looked great! He is definitely getting those really nicely!!!
Well done here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! I think she did really well here!
When doing the volume dial for cookies before the run – the tricks were good now you can add more action in the cookie delivery by having her chase you a bit, or having her chase the cookie hand doing a spin instead of just handing her the treat. Action cookies will get even more arousal and engagement!
In both videos, she was very patient in her sit when you took the leash off 🙂 And you were good about letting her offer that then throwing the treat. Next step – add in a little quiet praise while she is sitting 🙂
The opening is tricky when turning to her left on jump 1, because it makes it really hard to keep her off the tunnel as you found out LOL! On the first run, you were a little late on the turn 3-4 so she went to the tunnel (you were running straight over 2 which propelled her long over 3).
On the 2nd run, wrapping that way with the motion in towards 2 does set the line to the tunnel and playing it without sound… the physical cue does indicate the tunnel. You said the verbal earlier but the physical cue overrode it. So as she is lifting off for 2, you would need to be saying your right and turning to 4 to get her to turn over 3.
The line to the tunnel looked good on both runs!
After the weaves, you had a little too much shoulder pull at 1:31 (she correctly looked at the other jump). Definitely better on the 2nd run! And it will be easier when the independent weaves are in place, because then you can be a lot further ahead.Nice adjust on the switch timing before the jump-tunnel discrimination! You were too early at 1:39, so she didn’t take the jump. Much better on the 2nd run!
The last element as the FC wrap after the tunnel there – switching her away to the tunnel looked good, you just needed to look at her more as she exited the tunnel to get the timing of the wrap. The first run was earlier and worked better. The 2nd one was late (bar down) – the added connection will give you the exact moment to decel because you will fully see her exit the tunnel.
And then after that wrap, you can totally let her find the line into the tunnel! It is right in front of her and a fun way to end 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyWow, nice lead outs here! He was pumped up but held the stay til you released, 3 jumps ahead! The sequence went well with the wrap then the go – you can throw the toy sooner on the last jump so he doesn’t curl back to you.
Nice job on the 2nd video too – when you are in a bigger space, you can add in more lateral distance (instead of being ahead) to see if he can hold the stay and send laterally to the jump when released (I am sure he can :))
Great job here!
TracyHi!
I think he did well here trying to figure this crazy game out with you sitting LOL!!
The difference in the energy of the verbal makes a bug difference for him. Question: do both of the cues begin with. ‘Get in’ or ‘go in’? I didn’t notice that in earlier sessions (I thought you used tunnel as the tunnel verbal, but maybe I was under-caffeinated LOL!!)The cues being too similar might be why he hd a question at the end – too similar and he was trying to predict which one it was, perhaps?
Feel free to try this with the tunnel verbal and see if it makes a difference.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
>>There were a few new people at the field. Only one other dog in the field at the same time- and far away. But he was clearly uncomfortable. Should I keep it to just me and Jamie or one other person for now? other suggestions?>>
That is good info from him! I think he needs to get into environments with other people around, but without challenging behaviors (stay is pretty challenging!)
You can take him on walkabouts near new people, playing the pattern game. That way he can assess them and return his engagement to you when he is ready. I would do this for as many sessions as needed til he returns engagement really fast – then you can switch to asking for a simple behavior. Once he is used to new people and not surprised by them, all of the other behavior will pop right back into place 🙂
Keep me posted!Tracy
Good morning!
>>I know VERY little about jump grids and am just learning about conditioning work. I have the Susan Salo book. Should I just go through and pick random ones to set up each week? >>
I don’t think the Salo grids will necessarily help her. I recommend Dr. Leslie Eide, a sports vet who teaches online jumping and conditioning classes, and also is a high level agility competitor 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/thetotalcanine
>>Moving on to the next thing- we had the opportunity to rent some indoor AIR CONDITIONED space a couple days ago>>
Ah, AC!!! That is so nice at this time of year.
Seq 1: The walk through looked good! One thing to remember is that the dogs are always slower on mats and the handlers are always faster 🙂 So take that into consideration as you plan your timing – letting her look at the line before you move to the next one. She will cue you when she has it 🙂
First run – You were a little too quick 3-4, she needed to be able to get past you from the tunnel exit (accidentally push to the backside). You let her get past you better on the 2nd run and that looked good!
The backside cue on the first rep was too forward facing, showing the front side, so the physical cue overrode the verbal. Much better backside cue on the redo (facing the backside more). Nice connection on the exit! Then be sure you run to the next jump directly, you were moving laterally away from it.
Seq 2: walk through looked good here too. One thing I notice on the walk through (that was mirrored on the run) was that you are really far from jump 2 here – as the dogs learn to be super independent on the threadle, you will need support it with a positional cue by being close enough to the jump to touch it 🙂
On the run, being that far from the jump caused confusion at 1:42 – she came to you but did not know to go back to the jump. Then you turned your shoulders forward which made it harder. Keep going there! The cookie drop came when she turned and barked at you, right in front of a jump. Yes, we want her to not get frustrated but also, we don’t want to present cookies when she is facing you and barking in front of a jump. So the trick is to keep moving, keep moving 🙂
Back to the threadle: start super close to the jump, she should have just enough room to get between you and the jump. Hold the threadle position until she turns her head to 2 then you can move away. No need to turn your shoulders forward to cue the jump – the threadle cues it. When you turned the shoulders forward to the jump, it is potentially cuing her to go past the jump (like on the first rep). So keep your shoulders frozen in threadle position til she turns and looks at jump 2, then get outta there for 3-4.
>>After the 2nd attempt of sequence 2, I did the opening with 3 different handling moves. I’m not sure which one I liked better, but they were all fun to try!>
The blind worked well there and so did the forced front cross to Jaakko because they both showed the line more clearly and they are not ‘trained’ cues – meaning, if you do it right, the dog does it right 🙂 But, they both require the handler to spend more time moving to jump 2. And the threadle allows you to leave as soon as she turns her head to the jump, so that is a big advantage for the threadle.
The next section looked really good! Nice layering! The backside push needed your physical cues to face the backside more (you were clearer at 2:26 on the 2nd run) – you were turned to the front so she had a question about which side.
Threadle wrap looked great! YAY!! Nice to see the training shine through!
3rd sequence – another good walk through. You can try going even faster on all of the walk throughs, and also get the verbals out loud like you would do on a run – that changes the body language!
The other thing to plan in the walk through is seeing her head look at the jumps – that seemed to be the only real source of questions from her on any of these – you being a little early to cue or move away, which pulls her off or pushes her to a different line.
On the runs: Nice opening! Great lead out position and timing there!
Yes, a little loss of connection 8-9 on the first run, be sure she looks at the jump. The second run looked a lot better in terms of connection!
There was something happening with the verbal there – If there is a blooper, don’t dwell on it 🙂 You had a great run going til you starting thinking about the verbal at 4:31… dwelling on it caused the error at 4:37 because you were talking and didn’t connect or get to the tunnel exit. So keep practicing carrying on and ignoring errors 🙂
>>could not figure out how to get the backside of 6. I have been tasked with finding out what the answer is, lol. >>
Depending on exactly how the jump is set up (it was hard to see here), it is generally a backside push to slice but a threadle wrap is good to practice there too.
The tunnel in the way takes out the dogs being able to see your foot work (especially small dogs) so it is all upper body and verbal cue.
The specifics of the physical cue can be individual for each dog. The push to the backside cue would start as she is lifting for the jump before – and to support the verbal, you can rotate your upper body to her to give her more connection, or use an outside arm to push her to the backside. Or some dogs do better with a dog side arm.
You can also set up convergence by not going as close to 4 so you can by showing converging motion 5-6 and help push her out.
It is something to play with without the tunnel there, and with a line on the ground or a blocker or something to be sure you add distance.
The threadle wrap with the layering would need the cues to start before 5 too, with. The verbal and the big upper body movement – but also needs to be isolated at a distance. I think the dogs might have been surprised that there was something other a straight line on the layering, so they had a delayed response to the cues and needed earlier/more exaggerated cues there.
In that case, perfect handling won’t help the dogs 🙂 it is a matter of showing it to them in context so they understand that backsides are possible in layering too!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>first, did I set this up wrong? You mentioned the way it was built required a lead change. >>
It was not wrong, it is just that the jump she was missing was a little bit away from the line – just a foot or. two off the line, so she needed to change leads to move out to it. Some dogs see that automatically, some need to be cued for it (mine need to be cued for it, generally).
>>And second question is what should my shoulders and stuff be doing to support that go out line? You mentioned I was forward which I thought was right but it sounds like that pulled her in?>>
That can depend on the individual dog – some dogs needs an arm out to the side, some dogs need ‘get out’ handling with the opposite arm. She might need that ‘get out’ and opposite arm to push her away to the jump – definitely something to train separately from layering, then add the layering back in.
>>Sometimes I wish we could do things right the first time.
The key to getting it right the first time is the walk through 🙂 not the run! So… are you doing the full steps of the walk through before you run it? If so, put it on video and post it so we can see what is happening. On the run, the errors that cause faults are just because you are late in the handling – on the first time in each section, you cues were good choices, but they came as she was lifting for the turn jump when ideally they would be starting no later than landing of the previous jump (and in tight spaces like this, probably liftoff from the previous jump).
This was set pretty tight – since she is a big dog with a big stride, jump her at 12” when the spacing is less that 20 feet. I know 15 or 18 foot distances are “legal” in AKC but they are really really bad for big dogs and I would never want the dog to slam their bodies making the turns. Jump 12” keep things challenging for you and will give her time to get the striding without smacking the bar, poor girlie!Looking at the runs – on the first run, at :03 the turns cues started at liftoff to the turn jump when should have happened at landing of previous jump so she ended up off course.
Definitely better timing on the second rep, starting as she was in the air over the previous jump but those distances are really tiny for her to be jumping even 20” so she slammed the bar, ouch! So while smaller dogs might have no problem with the distances, you can advocate for your big dog and run her at 12” on those sections.
Good job staying in motion and keeping her going after the oopsie on the first run!
>>And she couldn’t get her weavers.
I don’t know why she couldn’t weave or why she was crunchy/slow when she did weave, but don’t demand them if she can’t do them that day. You told her she has to do them… but actually she does not have to do them LOL!!! It might be a pain issue, so if she is normally fine and couldn’t do them that day, then don’t ask for the weaves if she can’t. Give her a rest and try again in a couple of days to see what is going on.
On the section heading to the ending line – your cues were good but, late 🙂
Switch to the tunnel at :48 can happen as she is approaching the bar, and then you can layer that jump to get to the next spot sooner. And the FC cues at :54 should be starting as she exits the tunnel – you were moving forward til she took off, then did the cross.You were saying the ‘here’ cue at 1:29 but the motion of you driving forward put her into the tunnel because the physical turn cues overrode the verbals.
So in those sections, in the walk through – plan the physical cues and then plan the timing of where they should be coming to her, generally one jump earlier. And then in the walk through, run if faster to practice that timing 🙂
My guess is either you are practicing a bit of late timing in the walk through, or you are not doing the full walk through past learning the course. So definitely get the full walk through going and you will see a pretty massive difference in your runs!
>>I did get a new agility shirt I thought you’d appreciate. >>
I love it!!!! Yay!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work on the tunnel exits, Annalise!! They are definitely harder than they look on paper! The timing is pretty early!The key is getting the verbal AND physical cue to her, before she goes into the tunnel.
It might help to put out a visual marker on the ground, so you can see her arriving at the spot where you need to start the verbal and physical cues. That spot is about 6 feet before she enters the tunnel. In the past, I have put a leash on the ground as a line for the dog to cross – right as she is arriving at the line, I give the physical and verbal cues.
Prytania’s commitment looks really good, so I think doing both the physical and verbal cue that early will be perfectly fine.
One thing to note is that at this point, as she is learning the verbals, that if the physical cue doesn’t match the verbal, she is likely to go with the physical cue. This is normal, so definitely remember to match the physical cue to the verbal cue. When you did that, she was perfect!!! And keep rewarding all the reps, because her responses are reflections of what she sees/hears and when she sees/hears them.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
At 1:05, the left verbal seemed timely but the physical cue looked like the go (acceleration straight) So she went straight. Good girl!
1:17 was better – she got both cues, and had a much better turn!At 1:26 the physical cue was acceleration straight and the left verbal was after she entered the tunnel, so she went straight.
1:38 was really good!! Both cues came before she got into the tunnel. Nice!!!
When you were on different angles, like at 1:50 – the go and acceleration happened after she was in the tunnel so she turned.
Compare to 2:01 where both happened before the tunnel and she was great driving straight. Yay! She is very honest about responding to what she sees and hears before entering the tunnel.You can also see the comparison between 2:13 (where both cues happened after she entered the tunnel) and 2:39 and 2:50 were so much earlier, so she was able to respond beautifully.
The section with the Rear crosses looked terrific!!! They are hard but you did a great job showing them to her!! Her turn was very nice at 3:04 and even better at 3:24 🙂
Nice balance to the GO, followed by a super wow rep on the left at 3:43!!She came out of the tunnel on the 2nd to last rep – you might have been too early on the RC? But more likely, she was a little tired. No worries! She finished strong on the last rep.
Prytania was very confident slamming that board around! Nice!
Excellent adjustment at :37 to move the bowl further away – you noticed that the bowl was too close and scrunching her up so moving it further away REALLY helped. Super! I think the sweet spot for the bowl target is probably 6 inches from the board? Far enough for her two front feet to easily come off it, but not so far that she stretches to get to it.Since this went so well, you can go to the next step of adding the cue:
– Line her up next to the board, at the very end of it (your toes are near the end of the board) with both of you facing the target and end of the board.
– Hold her collar, say her target cue
– Let go of her collar and let her jump into position
– Then reward, and give that clear release.
The goal is that she doesn’t run up and turn around 🙂 but rather, moves directly into the target position.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
The serps are looking strong! You are releasing with very clear serp shoulders – perfect!Since the serp cues cues the in and the out to the next jump, we can get even more independence on the 2nd jump. You can hold your shoulders in that serp position as you move forward, meaning your shoulders are still open to him, until he lands and look at the 2nd jump. That is when you can turn the shoulders forward. If you turn forward too soon, he might end up relying on you to cue the next jump, or he might run past the next jump. So, the ser shoulders will cue him to both come in over the serp jump AND go back out for the next jump, no extra help needed from you as long as you are connected 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
