Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
It was so great meeting you today! Max is amazing and you are doing a fabulous job with him!!!
The tunnel game went great!! He definitely likes the manners minder LOL! And it looks like you were getting him to look forward before releasing him, which worked really well.
He also did super well with the tunnel threadle side – he had no trouble turning away into the tunnel. So now you can add your tunnel threadle word: starting closer to the entry with him on the threadle side, you can start saying it and then release him into the tunnel (then to the manners minder :))
>Max did well, when we switched from him offering the tunnel to me holding his harness, he ran off and zoomed around. >
It was good to meet him before reading this – he doesn’t really love his harness being held yet, but he was happy to let us do it when we were gentle and slick LOL!! What worked really well today was when I lined him up with a cookie lure, let him eat the cookie while I slowly and gently slid my hand onto his collar. He let me do that over and over, good boy! So that will help at home – getting him lined up first then gently taking his harness (then feeding him another treat :)) And the same goes for being picked up – slowly, gently, almost so carefully that he doesn’t realize it is happening…. And a zillion treats 🙂
Great job here!!Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the videos!!
After watching the videos, I think a couple of things were in play here. Definitely not horrific! Definitely not a meltdown!!
Here is what I see:
On the first video (posted last) – yes he got his weaves and was running , but you can still see the environment had some distraction. But a good run, yay! It was definitely a hard environment.
On the 2nd (posted first here), Empty Hands JWW – I think in this environment, empty hands was too hard – and you can see stress in the beginning of the run. You can bring the toy out a lot soon in any empty hands run when changing environments. He finished well but watch his ears and striding on the last part of the course – his head is high, ears are back – definitely processing the stress!
Those were both day one.
On the day 2 runs: day 1 was a big, hard day (travel, hard new environment, possibly a hotel, being lunged at by a dog, etc) so it is possible he didn’t have the brain energy to be focused in that challenging environment 2 days in a row. So some of this might come from being deleted (glucose and oxygen need to fuel the brain, and he might not have had time to recover the glucose and oxygen levels). Plus doing it without the support of the visible toy was hard (and it was still hard on the last run with the visible toy, which leads to thinking about outside factors).
2 outside factors that were possibly in play:
>We started with a pee “accident” in the warmup area. Yes, I had walked him and he had gone but apparently not enough. It wasn’t marking….he squatted like a girl gave me sad eyes and I scooped him up and brought him outside. He didn’t want to go back in the ring but I told him he was a good boy and brought him in. Lots of pogo-ing and distraction…. Then when we got outside the poor kid couldn’t make it to grass fast enough to 💩 (which he had also already done just an hour ago).>
This tells me that he probably had an upset GI system, which can contribute to lack of engagement and stress in the ring. I have learned that if the dog says “I don’t want to go into the ring” then I don’t bring them in the ring.
Also, I don’t think he was moving like he normally does. He was not jumping with the same power as usual, and watch :32 – :36 in the Dec 30 JWW video: his gait is off, he pacing not trotting or walking, and it looks like his right hind is short but it might not be that? I have him seen him move enough that his movement did look different in all of these videos. Yes, dogs often move differently when they are stressed or distracted, but it is entirely possible he is either sore/ouchy somewhere, or maybe he was holding himself tight because his GI was upset? Definitely see if you can get him into a massage person to see if he is ouchy somewhere.
>a lot of jumping on the mama>
That was mostly lack of connection 🙂 He jumps at your hands when you are not showing enough connection or you are pointing too much 🙂
So the next step would be to clear him of anything being painful and make sure his GI is feeling good too 🙂 Then you can plan to approach out of town trials differently – ease him into the environment by doing the first run as a toy-in-hand run, and do that as much as needed til he is not looking around or pinning his ears. Then you can fade the toy out and move closer to real runs. It won’t take long to do that and you will find it gets easier for him to generalize running courses in new environments!
I will keep you posted on what is coming next, I haven’t quite figured it out all the details 🙂 Happy New Year!!!!!! Give your dogs extra treats from me!!
Tracy
Hi!
>In this short video I’m just showing the progression of moving the jump up to 10″, then back down to 8″ when it didn’t work out, then after a break, back up to 10″, then 12″ then finally back down to 8″ one last time. He’s really confident and looks good at 12″ just doing the set point, so we’ll need to work up to higher heights with a run into it as this proves that needs practice.>
He did have more trouble from the stay – if this was the first time seeing this, it might not have anything to do with the height at all. He looked a little “short” to me in his jumping style (he was carrying his back legs more than pushing off) – even running into the jump. My guess is that he was either fatigued (if he had been doing grids before this) or sore maybe from playing in the snow or something 🙂 Or both! So before we make any changes, you can give him a massage (our dogs are so pampered LOL!) and a bit of rest, then try it again as the first thing in the session and see how he does.
>OMG – I HAVE to stop leaning over him so much! It’s too much pressure but I’m having a hard time stopping myself! >
It is definitely easy to lean over the small dogs! You can take a hands-free approach to most of it, which will prevent the leaning over. You can do the ‘bite my arm’ game when you want to ramp him up and for jut a couple of seconds, then you can lean back and clap? That might help you stay more upright. And elan less.
>I’m glad Julie will certainly tell me when I’m doing it which is super helpful I love that!>
Yay! That is what training partners are for!
>
I’m kind of sad it’s last day of class – this has probably been my favorite class of all! SO HELPFUL! Thank you so much for everything and keep us posted on a support group.>I am so glad you enjoyed it!! IT has been so fun to watch you and Reacher train, and see his debut! I will keep you posted on the support group – so far no good ideas have percolated through my brain to make it work for everyone LOL!! I will try to get it done by tomorrow so we can start the new year on the right paw 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
The sequences are looking good!On video 1, run 1: Nice connection!!!
The opening went smoothly – you can trust his commitment more and deliver your cues sooner. You were tending to deliver them at takeoff, when ideally you would be cuing at the exit of the previous jump. And at :43, he came off the jump – you just needed more connection and shoulder open to him to get it (rather than turning parallel to the line there).
Run 2:
Getting the out to the jump at 1:17 was better!! You can be less pointy towards it because it turns your shoulders parallel to the line past it. Connecting back to him (like a serp on the flat) will get it smoothly. It was nice at 2:06!He found the line to the backside nicely at 1:23!
He missed the backside at 2:09 becaue you were pointing forward so yes to more connection 🙂 you said something line “I am not looking at you” and then you adjusted really well on the last rep!!>I was really struggling with the backside at 12 (I think it was 12?). So we spent some time trying to fix that, but I think I just need more work on backside serps in general – I see myself stepping in and then back, which I know is not right.
As you slide through the backside parallel to the bar, you can drop your arm back and look at the landing spot (and drop the toy on the landing spot) You don’t need to wait for him to take the jump, you can make looking for the bar as you move more automatic by dropping the toy down on the landing side as you move through, as he arrives at the entry wing.
You were using motion away from the bar to get him to come which did help! But shifting connection to the landing spot as you did the serp
2nd video:
Doing the threadle t 1;24 just needed you to be further ahead and not moving as fast – he was better at 2:06 when yo were ahead but stay closer to the jump to support commitment.Looking at the backside at the end:
Push at 1:32 and 2:12 got the front side- getting further ahead by leaving sooner on the tunnel send at 2:11 helped a lot along with the bigger connection – just maintain that til he arrives at the wing (don’t let off the gas pedal to early, which is what happened at 2:12 🙂 You maintained the cue for longer and he got it really well at the end!On the ring entry video:
>I felt like the entry was fine, he watched Lift but refocused on me,>
He did well! As he enters the gate, you can engage him with the leash or a trick rather than wait for him to look back at you. That way entering the ring can be immediately associated with playing with you (and not thinking about the other dog). It was hard to tell if you cued him to not, the whole clip was in fast forward 😂😁😂. He did well staying engaged and lining up as you got rid of the leash. As you build the lead out, I think delivering the treats by throwing them back will be helpful – rewarding from your hand is getting a lot value on your hand, so he is moving forward a bit. He is also moving when you reach in to give him t he treat, so throwing it back can really help him stay without moving.
The last video was also in fast forward for most of it, and I couldn’t really see you, but based n the cheers and his speed into the tunnel, he did really well LOL! Turns out that playing a fast forward video in slow-motion doesn’t help LOL! The teeter looked good and he did well with the distraction of the people in the ring 🙂
>Exiting, on the other hand, is a bit of a challenge. He doesn’t wanna be done, so he’s wandering to go visit. He loves to tug on his leash, so I will just need to build a stronger end of run routine that involves that, I think? In this video I re-released him to go take the tunnel and then we ended again, just to change it up. More work needed here, for sure.>
That is a behavior I have certainly seen (and my dog Contraband also didn’t want to leave the ring). So yes – use the leash as a toy but also make sure the leash being picked up or put on does not mean the end. You can go to the leash, pick it up, tug on it, then go right back to ‘work’. And you can sometimes put it on, tug, take it off, go right back to work. Mix it up! And you can do the UKI toy+leash thing that is legal even on the real runs: have a toy placed with his leash or tied to it, so he gets the real reward (toy toy!) at the end.
>We have his first FEO runs the weekend of Jan 10/11, so this will be a good test! And we’ll work on our exits in the meantime.>
Super!! Keep me posted!!!
Great job here! Happy New Year!!
Tracy
I like the plan to let her work in the ring with Casey, then let her trial in the ring with Casey! The seminar is in the same place, yes?
>And yes – no food in the cue hand for the behind the back starts. I’ll mix these into some drop in classes so she does them somewhere other than home.>
Perfect! I think she will really enjoy it. I also use those for quick fixes on course when I mess up LOL by sending the dog behind me to get moving again (without any angry talkback from the dog :))
T
Hi!
Here are some examples of the get out on sequences. Basically, when the dog has to push away from us on a line (but there is no side change and we don’t want to run all the way over there), we can use the get out. It helps us get to great position on course!
>I think she is understanding the Holiday Bonus: Threadle foundation. I”m wondering if I need to add a barrel or wing to have her wrap that.>
She did great here! Yay! You did the “u turns” here as you were moving forward then the full circles, she seemed to have no questions on either.
Question: When you cue your adult dogs to do a threadle wrap: do you use the dog-side hand, the opposite hand.. or both? I am asking because as we ramp this up, we will start using the hand(s) you want to use. I use both hands held low with the opposite arm visible. Some people use the outside arm held across the body, just below shoulder height. Some folks use only the dog side hand, super low. It is your choice, either way is good!
When you have decided which hand you want to use then yes – we can turn her away to something. You will see this get added in class soon: we start with the pups just past the prop, and use the hand cues (feet facing forward) to turn them away to the prop. Then we get the handler moving, doing what you did here but adding the prop: your cues bring her past the prop then turn her away. When she can do that? We get it onto a cone or barrel 🙂
Great job here! Happy New Year 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
The barn hunt trial sounds like it was so fun! And a 6 day dog show road trip? I am jealous!!!! Fun!!!!
On the out video – it went great! He had the general concept when you were not moving but he was like “why aren’t you moving?” LOL!! Then when you started moving, it all locked into place 🙂 Very nice! And the balance reps of going past it were nice too – I don’t think you needed to help him as much, I bet he would stay on his line to you with your hand being as low. You can add lateral distance to this – try being 4 or 5 feet from the prop and see if he can still do that out while you are moving.
On the running contact box:
>Not sure how to help him keep looking forward the whole time.>
You did a really good job getting him to look forward! It is hard with small fast dogs, but especially on your left, he was much better about looking forward!
> Hoping I can bring the treat and train into prime time soon, but to be honest I haven’t worked on introducing it again – so much to do all the time!!>
Yes, the TnT will be so helpful! The other thing we do is add a wing past the box eventually but that is a little further down the road. Maybe the TnT can come on the road trip so he can fall in love with it? It will indeed make your life easier – right now I think he is doing well getting into the box then he can track you throwing the treat. The TnT will take care of all of that 🙂
Great job here! Have fun on the road trip if you don’t get a chance to post before you leave! Happy New Year 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
> I do need to broaden Skizzle’s horizons on treats. He won’t work for kibble. And I’ve mostly been using 3 other treats (Ziwi peak lamb, string cheese, and hotdogs) – he likes them all. the ZP is probably lowest value at the moment. He trades for these treats, and then is able to go back to the toy (maybe with some reluctance, though?).>
You can do a bit of a trail mix with a tiny bit of chicken mixed in (rotisserie chicken, for example) or a bit of salmon treats – just enough to add more smell and flavor, but not so much that it messes with his belly. We definitely don’t want an upset stomach!
The threadle wrap foundation is going well! He turned well in both direction, which is fantastic! You did the “U turns” on these which went great. So now you can do the full 360 as you continue to move forward (rewarding in the same direction you are moving towards). We will be able to move into the next steps soon, stay tuned 🙂
He did really well working outside – yes there were noises and distraction but that is so good to experience (especially the barking neighbor dog 🙂 )
He is making definitely progress with the turn and burn game. Super!!! And once he ‘warms up’ he is fantastic (like the last couple of reps). I think we can add one more thing to jump start each session which will lead us into moving the line so you can do the FC sooner too: I think the hardest part of the game is taking his eyes off of you. So we can give him a focal point as you cue him to go around the barrel: either a bowl, or part of a toy. If you choose to use the bowl, approach it like it is the ‘fold it in’ game and place it maybe only1/3rd of the way around the barrel and send him to it. You can drop the treat to it once or twice, then move it halfway around, then 2/3rds of the way around… when he is driving to it with the bowl 2/3rds of the way around, we can fade out the cookie in the bowl. You can do the FC and have him chase you for the cookie from your hand (or the toy). That can all happen quickly, probably a few reps!
Or you can use a really long toy – and hold his collar, placing the toy on the other side of the barrel – if he is on your left side, the toy is in your right hand. Then cue him to go around the barrel and you a slide the toy through the FC so he chases that 🙂 Let me know if that makes sense LOL!>And now I probably need to wait a couple days before trying again.>
You can probably do it tomorrow if you want, I think he had a grand time in this session and was not mentally overloaded.
Looking at the parallel path game:
>Again – didn’t think we were ready to swap to a jump bar>
I think you totally are! He had a ton of really good reps – the best reps were all moving away from the camera, because you did the cookie toss starts. On the reps coming towards the camera, you started with him next to you so he didn’t see the motion to set the line (which caused the questions). So definitely remember the cookie toss start.
He was also better on your left side than on your right sided, so move a little more slowly on your right and that will help him lock onto the line.I would add the jump set up now, he is showing enough understanding on the prop that you can move forward to it. As you add the jump setup, you want to deliver the treats sooner: as soon as he looks at & starts moving to the jump, you can use a ‘get it’ marker and throw the treat so it lands out ahead of him as he is going through the uprights.
>And left in our push-tugging at the end – it’s fun how pushy he is, and how he enjoys being pushed!>
He is so funny! That cracks me up!
On the last video, you added the toy placed on the line! Yay! The only suggestion is to let him see you place it (he totally missed it on the first rep LOL!) And you can let it stay visible a bit more to really solidify the concept of driving around the prop. I think this focal point will really help!
>Took me a minute to start with a cookie not a collar grab (he’s not interested in the collar grab again >
You might need 3 hands for this LOL! But you can line him up in position near the barrel, give him a cookie, then hold his collar – then place the toy, then let him go to it. A cookie lure can help line him up, and then we can fade the cookie out to the lineup cue.
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
>I initially had the barrels farther apart, but he struggled at the start because of the toy in my hand and he would not send from the hand with the toy in it.>
Was that on the video? Sounds like you took it out, feel free to post it all! I only saw one rep of question on the video (at :06) and that was more because you stepped to the side (watch your left leg) which pulled him off the barrel as he passed you. On the other reps, you were very clear as you stepped forward and he was really good. Going past the dangling toy was definitely harder but he did it! Yay!
The get out looked great! Nice job trying in motion and keeping your feet straight the whole time. The only thing missing was balance 🙂 Be sure to mix in reps where you release and move forward without cuing the get out – and he should stay on his line towards you.
The threadle wrap foundations look great too! You can definitely add movement now – walking forward and working on the timing and mechanics of turning him away, working up to the loop where the thrown reward is also the start cookie for the next rep. When you do threadle wraps with the other dogs, do you use dog-side arm or both arms or opposite arm only? We can start showing the arm cue you want to use as well, while still using the inside arm to turn him away. This concept will quickly move to getting him to turn away on his own.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>Or just plan on her debut being the mid-February Fusion UKI with Casey Keller.>
I think coming off the spay with very little time to run sequences, the February option is the best option. And she should be comfy with Casey in the ring, because she would have met Casey in the seminar! Seems like a good situation!
Her behind the back starts are looking great in both directions! She seemed to have no questions about going around yo then to the wing. Definitely something to keep playing with as she gets back to jumping! And it looks like the cue hand was empty? Hard to tell from the video but that is what it seemed like. If so – super! We want the hand empty so the cookie does not become the cue 🙂 If not – try it with an empty cue hand 🙂 You can also have the treats in your pocket and then sometimes you can do this as remote reinforcement too.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
This is why we start with a prop, to hash out all of the behaviors before going to the actual obstacles 🙂
>Moved onto sends and the biting is back. I know this is a tight space with dogs in this video but we did it earlier in the day at FF with lots of room and zero distractions and the result was the same.>
A couple of thoughts here –
>Also she’s gone into BC work all the time get real excited , throw balls , stalk things, nip the mamma when I said ready… so also combatting her brain now too lol!>
Yes, when she is aroused and maybe frustrated, she uses her mouth 🙂 She also got jumpy/sticky when you changed what you were doing rather than just continuing to train. So if something is not quite right ,reward her and either keep going like normal, making adjustments – or break it off entirely and change what you are doing.
She didn’t look frustrated here (til after you indicated that it was not correct) – I think this prop is probably too close to a toy. It is very grab-able LOL!
You can switch to a prop that is most definitely not a toy to grab – like an amazon box or frying pan or something. Hopefully she won’t be interested in grabbing a frying pan LOL! And that way you can isolate the foot smack. And you can mark and reward earlier, before she gets to it, so you can mark before she bites it.
As you work on this, I do think the other dogs can be in a different room. It is a lot of pressure and it is already a challenging behavior. I know it was similar at FF but no need to add pressure to it with the other dogs right there watching.
Nice work here! We will get it hashed out!
TracyHi! Seems warm for winter!!! Yay!
>I think I was getting my marker out at the right time. >
I think you got into the groove of getting it started when she was about a stride from the jump setup, which ended up having the reward moving when she was arriving at the uprights. You can now start it even sooner – when she turns and takes the first step towards the jump 🙂 That way you are marking intent to commit and forward focus, not just arrival at the jump.
>Interesting that the few failures she had were right after restarting after reloading? Not certain why>>
I watched to see if there was a pattern to those, and I think there was: all 3 of those moments (:39, 1:50, 2:24) were when she was on your right side and you were a bit lateral from the jump, with your shoulder closed forward (bent elbow at your side)… with the tunnel entry pretty visible behind you. She was looking at you on each of those, which is usually a request for more info. So it was probably position plus cloud shoulder (not enough connection) and the visibility of the tunnel. The tunnel might not have a lot of value yet, but it is a pretty big visual to process nonetheless.
You can staying a little closer to the jump after a reset, and open your shoulder back to her by having your dog-side hand pointing back to her nose more (this is what you were doing on your left side, where she had no trouble.
She had no trouble finding the jump while she was in the groove of doing it, and she got really fast at the end LOL!!! Nice!!!!
On the tunnel video – the tunnel part was the easy part, she did really well with that!
The first rep was great with tugging to the entry, taking her collar in position, then throwing the toyCompare to the 2nd and 3rd rep where you took her collar near the exit, tossed the toy, then walked her ack by the collar. She started to avoid after that – brought the toy back slowly. Add in the processing challenge of the other dog and she was not into it as much after that.
In the video you mentioned potentially putting more money into the grab… I don’t think it is that, I think it is more that she does not like being moved by the collar. So if you move her by the collar, you will want to pay pay pay cookie cookie cookie the whole time. Ideally, though, you do what you did on the first rep – tug her back to the position you want to start in, take the toy, hold her collar & give a treat (but don’t move her around by the collar), toss the toy, then start the rep. The other option is to toss the toy near the exit where you were, and have her walk back to the start spot with you while you reward with cookies. I think she will like that better than being moved by the collar 🙂
Nice work here! Fingers crossed for more good weather!!
Tracy
Hi!
>it was all cookies mostly delivered by hand. Today he is struggling not looking at my hand.>
No worries, we can balance things back again 🙂 Throwing the treats here with this game is already helping!
For the prop game – you can start the RC element by getting him charging back and forth with the parallel path game. And as you do that, be sure to connect by looking at him. When you are looking ahead, he looks at you (for more info) but when you looked at him, he looks ahead to the prop.
Looking at the rear crosses – he was turning towards you because you were still visible on the original side, which cued him to turn towards you. In both of these reps, you can see him turning to you on the original side:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hcISWt7TEnI1m-bywoA–eaGOFnLQ510f_XHFkA90ig/edit?usp=sharingSo to get the RCs, ideally you would be fully visible on the new side before he arrives at the prop – which means starting to get to the other side sooner and faster 🙂 You can also teach the RC concept with the alternate game here, which makes it easier to get to the other side to help him turn:
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi! This went great!
Nice connection and he found the new side after the blind cross very easily (and yes, he liked all the cookie tosses :))
My only suggestion here is that you can decelerate sooner. You were doing the deceleration as he caught up to you, so he was surprised and went a little wide. Ideally, you would decelerate right after you finish the blind so he has time to see it and collect. You can see how tight he was able to turn on the last rep – there was a little miscommunication so he didn’t recall immediately and that allowed you to decelerate sooner… and he was super tight on the turn! Yay!
You can move to the handling combos now, which involves the barrel wraps too!
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
He has a lot of good tugging and is happy to bring it back! It looked like it was a little hard to get the tugging going in the beginning, and then when he was really getting into it and pulling back: hard to hold on (he looks strong!) And it looks like he as being careful around your hands, which is MUCH appreciated!I think a longer tug will really help! At the beginning, the toy was relatively small and moving fast and low – which required you to bend over him. That makes it hard to play! A longer toy (or two toys tied together) can give him easier access to the tugging part of the toy while also making it easier for you to hold on.
The only think I think he didn’t like was when you would let go of the tug while he was pulling back – that threw him off balance and seemed surprising so he kind of rocked back funny onto his butt (like at :32, 1:10, 1:22). And he didn’t really bring it back right away when that happened. So you can change that transition from tugging to letting go by tugging, relaxing the tug (but not letting go), then gently pulling forward as you let go so he moves forward and doesn’t end up on his butt 🙂
You can also add in throwing the toy further and then having him chase you a bit as he brings it back! I have my dogs chase me through the house LOL!
Great job here :)
Tracy
