Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! This run looked great!!!
The opening line looked really strong!!
>>Need to do some more work on his holding his contacts, broke the teeter this time before release. I’m fairly sure that the activity in the next ring has a whole lot to do with it, but a broken contact is progress when compared to a complete disconnect – yes?>>
Yes, a broken contact is better than a complete disconnect for sure! But also, it is possible that he thought your movement forward was the release: you stopped, then started moving again at :42 That is almost always paired with the release, so he might have built motion into the release. So…try not to stop unless you are going back to reward him. You can be moving and releasing. Or, if you stop, you must release *then* move, not at the same time, so there is no confusion about what the release is, exactly.
Setting up 8-9-10 was great! it is not cheating at all! You did a great job showing the line to 10, and 11-12 looked great too.
Because the distance is tight on the blind 14-15, you can actually start the blind as he is lifting off for 14 otherwise it ends up being a bit late – which brings us to the bar at 16:
His confusion on the bar at 16 (1:43) was not a verbal issue, it was timing:
The BC to get to it was late so you were still accelerating, so he took off in extension based on the cues he had. You started to rotate as he was in the air so he tried to adjust and respond, and could not pull it off (dropped his feet on the bar). So, I don’t think it had anything to do with the verbal at all! It was just that if we can get the BC sooner, then as he lands from 15 he will be seeing decelerating and wrap cues before he makes a takeoff decision, which will help with the bar for sure!>>the discussion at the end was about cues. I used check check at the spin which is actually his cue for a wrap to front cross Karen thinks his confusion there is why the bar came down. Don’t have a cue for a spin -something else to add to the list.>>
I think of verbals differently: they name the dog’s behavior (in this case, wrap the wing to the left), not my behavior (such as FC or spin or send or whatever I do to cue the wrap). The goal of the verbals is to be super independent so the dog doesn’t need to really know what my physical cues are 🙂 In theory, on the check check wrap verbal, you should be able to tap dance or do a cartwheel, and he would still wrap to his left 🙂
>>Don’t have a cue for a spin -something else to add to the list.>>
You are welcome to have 2 different cues for wrap-FC or wrap-spin, but I don’t think you need to – a single wrap-left cue is all he needs (and one less thing to worry about for us humans!). The timing is the key here, not having more verbals.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> I wanted to see where we were with the game since it’s been a while. She did great when I was just slowly moving, but when I added a jump, she got a bit frustrated,>>
Yes, we want the game to be very fluent away from agility (low latency is key) before we add a jump to it. By away from agility, I think an area without obstacles would be more useful because you were actually cuing obstacles here by moving towards them, then rewarding from your hands. So to develop the framework, the tossed treats back and forth are really important, and stay away from obstacles for now 🙂 She got frustrated, perhaps, because she was not sure what was happening
Nice work on the course!
One thing to remember is to always be connected and watching her, so you can see if she is looking at the line or obstacle that you want her to take, before you move to the next line. Her looking at it is your permission to move to the next cue. If she is not looking at it, you need to keep cuing it. That will also give you more connection, which is important too!Looking at it in sections:
The little oopsies on the opening fall into the “look at her til she cues you to leave” category:
On the first run, she took the front of 5 – so when she exits the tunnel, keep cuing the backside and looking at her til she looks at the backside, then you can carry on. This went better on the 2nd run, but she had a spin at 6 – you did the RC before she looked at the jump (3:51) so she didn’t know what to do.Nice distance leaving her on the a-frame! Very useful to have that distance!!
The FC on 9 is hard to get on time when you run alongside the frame, even when you get way ahead because the forward motion cues extension and it is hard to start the FC on time (1:39 and 4:00 and 4:35)
In order to get up to 9 and be on time there, try sedning to 7 and layering the 5 jump and unnumbered jump as you run to 9 – that will give you plenty of time!No worries about going behind the tunnel on the lead out when you broke it down – it was really helpful to support the weaves! She has had a lot of failure on the weaves with them in this distance context, so be sure there are no more failures and frustration with big distance sending. Break it down, reward before the weaves, set her up on a doable entry, then carry on so she is successful. Otherwise, the weaves will be very frustrating for her which we of course don’t want.
12-13-14 section, after the weaves:
– 12-13 went well on the 1st run, very connected there!
She needs connection to the 14 tunnel so you will want to keep cuing the tunnel until you see her look at it and even take a step towards it. You had some disconnection moments there (2:14, 4:55) so she didn’t take it. But when you were connected – she took it perfectly!
When you were connected on 12-13, she took that perfectly like on the first run and at 4:51- 4:54. Nice! On the second run, you started decelerating and disconnecting at 4:16 so the bar came down at 12, then at 13 you rotated towards the tunnel and stopped (4:19). That break in the information, especially after the weave frustration, caused her to take off. Yes, there was a dragonfly – but that dragonfly was there the whole time after she exited the weaves and it was only after there was the break in information that she took for it. It is good info and feedback from her about the important of connection!Trying to handle 14-15 with her on your right is hard – I bet getting her on your left (FC exit of 13) will make the 14-15-16 line even easier.
The threadles on the ending line are going well, especially the last rep, where you also had great connection to the last jump after the dog walk. Yay!!
>> I don’t anticipate doing a 2nd round of this course since we have lost so much time due to bad weather and Nox being sick. (Trying to decide what to move on to next and what to cut!)>>
Because the weave challenges here make things harder, you can leave this course and move on to the other courses or challenges. That way you can get plenty in and work on the weaves separately.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Running the parallel line around the tree went really well!!!
The first pop out looked good here –
On the first rep, the 1-2-3 was really lovely!
He had a question coming out of the tunnel – I think your connection was too far forward and you were blocking the wing, so he was not sure where to be. He sent out nicely to the 6 jump!!!On the 2nd rep – 1-2 looked great! You stepped to your left on the way to 3 so he considered shifting to the backside there for a moment. The switch to the left on 5 looked great!!! And he had a strong line to 6 there too.
It was hard to time the difference, mainly because I could not see the tunnel exit clearly… I suspect that the inside wrap (to his right) will ultimately be faster because he wraps well in both directions, and the inside line is shorter yardage.
The 2nd one here went well too! I like the switch at the tunnel exit at the end too 🙂
1-2-3-4 looked great. On the first run, you got a little too far ahead a 5 and had to decelerate, but he carried on to 6 with the layering like a rockstar! The decel (and perhaps your shock and awe that he went to 6) caused you to scramble to 7.
1:03 you had a lot of decel so the verbal and body language conflicted, so he turned when you turned. You got it on the last rep when you stepped in a little past the tunnel. I think it will be even easier if you run it from 3 (or 1 LOL!) to get more momentum, and run in closer to 3 and 4, so you are really accelerating into 5 – that should get him driving to 6 easily and you will be able to get to 7 and 8 easily too, because you are already in motion.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracySounds like you are having crazy weather! We see some of it on the news: rain, flooding… sounds like a mess! Sorry to hear it. I am glad that things went well on Saturday – yes, new learning like seeing another dog in the ring in pairs – but also lots of success in Blackjack, Gamblers, and even snooker with the sends!! And based on your description of the weather – it is was probably best to cancel Sunday so no humans or dogs got hurt.
Hoping you all get some dry weather so you can get to train and trial!
TracyHi! Nice work here!
The first rep is my favorite:
VERY nice shoulders on the first threadle wrap: pull in, and turn away!I think on some of the tight turn cues on the front side, doing it on 2 jumps makes the collection cues late. For her, the cues should start at takeoff from previous jump which is nearly impossible from a stay in front of the first jump here. So he read the correct direction of turn on the RC on rep 2, and the wrap on jump 2 (after the backside reps) but the decel cues were late (started after landing). So to give yourself more time to show timely cues, either use 3 jumps (turns on 3rd jump) so you are both in motion as she is approaching the jump before the turn, or set her up much further back from jump 1 if using 2 jumps, so you can start the turn cues, especially decel, as she is lifting off.
Backside pushes: excellent sends to the backsides on these!!!
The first one had no countermotion, it was mainly a serp so she took the jump really nicely. The 2nd rep lots of countermotion (more like a German turn where you and the dog are on the takeoff side at the same time) – it is on these countermotion reps where looking at landing becomes so important (and at 1:05 as well). You isolated that at 1:12 when you leaned back/stepped back – it worked when you were stationary, but when you are continuing to move forward (which is what we want!) you will want to use the arm next to the jump and your connection shift to point to the landing spot.The threadle wraps on the other side (like at :38 and after) did not has as much shoulder turn away as on the first rep, so she did not read them. Yes, she will come to your hands when you are stationary or way ahead and facing her, but the reality is that you will be moving into these and the shoulder turn you did on rep 1 will be MUCH better and more consistently effective.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
It is great to work on a new place because yes… a whole new sequence LOL!!!
You did a great job with your motion running towards the tunnel, so you could support the layering with motion as well as the verbals!
And excellent bowl use! that really helped her find the line (thanks, Kim!!) And as the bowl moves to harder positions: if she stays straight on her line, even if she doesn’t jump the jump – that behavior is still rewardable in the learning stages (because she was putting in a huge effort to stay on the line) so don’t try to call her off of it 🙂
I think on the rep where she missed the jump, it was because the bowl was a little bit too far off the line – she understood to stay out on the line but was not sure if she should go to the jump or the bowl.
The last couple of reps were really great because she definitely found it hard to ignore the cookie bowl… but she did! And she found the line brilliantly! Super!!!
So keep moving the bowl further and further away, and you can also add in throwing rewards out on the line. She is getting the idea of the layering and did a great job in a new place!!!
Nice work 🙂
TracyOh no!!!! Poor Timber, poor you! Keep me posted on how he is doing, and we can make a plan to see what he can do.
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, finding the jump behind the tunnel is really hard! 2 ideas for you to make it easier for him:For the get out jump, you can throw the reward sooner: throw it the instant he looks at it, rather than waiting for him to jump the jump. There were a lot of successful reps were he went *almost* to the jump – those are rewardable because we are shaping the skill. And always throw (or use a placed reward), resist the temptation to reward from your hand.
For the physical cue – he needs to see shoulders and feet supporting the line to the jump. With that in mind, try using the outside arm. What was happening with the dog side arm was that as you were trying to do a big send while moving, the arm was pointing to the jump but by doing that, the arm cue was rotating your shoulders directly to the tunnel (which is why he kept going to the tunnel). The outside arm there would point to the jump (as you look at his eyes) and that will also point your shoulders to the jump, helping to take the tunnel out of the picture entirely.
And once he has the jump, getting to the tunnel entry is really easy 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know how he does with the outside arm!
Tracy
Hi there!
Looking at the layering on the 1-2-3-4 line:
Layering involves a lot of parallel motion, so when you had the motion, he did really well! When you were not moving as much? He had questions. On the first couple of reps (especially the first one) you were not moving so he came in towards you or had a big head check – the verbal conflicted with the lack of motion, so he had to check in.At 1:11, you had some good motion parallel to his line, so he was faster and didn’t look at you as much. Yay!
Compare to 1:28 and 2:13 when you were more stationary and he had a big head check coming out of the tunnel.
So when setting up layering, you can run closer to the tunnel entry and then move away up the line, so you can show the parallel line motion so it matches the verbals.
Speaking of verbals:
Be careful of using the GO word until he is looking at the line you want…. at :24 he was looking straight and you said GO a couple of times…so he continued straight to the tunnel he saw on the line. Good boy! Also, be VERY careful about telling he was wrong (you marked that moment with a “hey!!!!”) because 99% of the time the dog is correct and we don’t want to shake their confidence or trust in the cues, When you added a turn cue and then said GO when he was facing the correct line? No problem 🙂 So if the dog goes off course, just go with it, mark it as correct, and fix it on the next rep if you know what happened, or watch the video to see what happened.Adding the turns: these went well, you were great about using the distance to get where you needed to be!
He had a little question at :44 on the wrap at 5 – you were not really connected or moving, so he was not sure what to do and looked up at you. MUCH better connection and motion at :47!
Turning towards and away on the 4 jump looked great!
And he found the 5-6 layered line after that perfectly each time… because there was so much motion parallel to his line.>> I may be part border collie – obsessed!>>
Ha! Yes, he was slowing down by the end – it is easy to work too long on these because we humans don’t have to run much, but the dogs are running BIG yardage! So definitely limit the reps and it is fine to work on low bars too, to save him a bit.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! I am glad your foot is feeling better!!!!
Good work on the videos here!
Looking at Rosie’s video:
The 1-2-3 opening looked good each time! At :19 you had a really good send to the 3 tunnel that gave you great position on the 4-5 line (and on the reps after that too).
For the 4-5 section, where she needed to come in to the threadle side of the jump. It boils down to using a clearer threadle verbal and physical cue. When she was going to the other side of 5 after the cross, your motion was supporting it because you had pulled away then pushed back to the jump (except for at 2:10 where you pulled really far away then pushed back, but she almost took the 6 jump on that rep).
So, using a clearer threadle cue where you either swing your dog-side arm back or use the opposite arm across your body, plus a threadle verbal (I don’t think you had one here, but it was hard to hear) – that will help her understand.
In the beginning stages, yes, you will need to do it slowly because the cue needs to override motion. And a wing on the jump will really help here find it nicely too, because it is a bigger visual.The RC there worked well at about :50! The wrap to the inside works too to get her to 5, but it sets up a harder/slower line for her like you mentioned. She had a question about the wrap at 1:41, but it was because you had looked forward to point to the jump (which broken connection) then stepped back away from it, so she was confused.
The big distance on the layering line at the end definitely would benefit from the MM being out there, so you can get the reward going as soon as she exits the tunnel and looks at the jump. And yes, as Rachel probably discussed, the dogs can learn to ignore it pretty easily, so you can use it on line like this.
Throwing the reward early works well too, but a placed reward will work more easily on this line.On Lily’s video:
Yes, building a lot more value for the tunnel will make this much easier, so I am glad you spent a lot of time on that! When she went to the tunnel, the 4-5-6-7-8 lines were really easy for her! She naturally comes in on the threadle line there, but you will still want to add in a threadle arm and verbal cue.About the tunnel value:
You can start closer to the tunnel to help her understand to do the obstacle then the MM, then add in more angles and motion. And you can add a marker (like “get it”) so she knows that she was correct the MM is now in play and she can go to it.I think the MM was a big enough distraction that it was hard for her to think about the other jumps and parts of the sequence for now. So one other thought to keep in mind: when the MM is out there, it is not the only reinforcement you can use. You can use your lotus ball for other parts of the sequence, then you can use the “get it” marker and MM on the layering lines, for example
As you added more distance and handling, a low arm big connection like 1:24 worked best. And watch her face as you send: keep moving towards the tunnel until you see her look at it and take a step towards it. That is her cue that she has the line and you can move away to the next line. If your arm is too high or you move away to soon, she came off the line to the tunnel. The more you build up the value, the easier this will be 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is looking really good! Yes, there is a lot of brain work for us humans because it all happens so fast LOL!!!
The FCs, the spins, the turn and burns and the race tracks are all looking good!
You can make a little more connection on the exit of the FCs – she drifts out a little on the exit of those because you are looking a little ahead so she widens her turn to see the connection. Note how you are more connected back to her eyes on the spins and she is super tight!>>Not sure if I got the last sequence (post turns) correct – I might have skipped a FC.
These were good! You can do full circles (basically the whole loop so she goes around 4 barrels total) to get her in the mode of running and not just crossing : )
She only had one spot of questions, at 1:20 – it was at the start of a rep and she was not sure if she should go to the barrel or not because your lower body was rotated away and not moving, and your dog side arm was trying to send. So she had was not sure if she should stay by your feet or go with the arm. Even with the rotation, you can get more commitment with one step to the barrel so there is motion to support the cue.
Now that she is committing so well, you can start to rotate sooner 🙂 This will rely on not as much dog-side arm sending across your body, as that causes a lot of upper body rotation that takes some time to unravel as you do the cross. So you can start rotating sooner, just before she passes you, and follow her with your eyes as you rotate away. That will emphasize connection to the “landing spot” of the barrel (the other side of it) and you can support that by transferring the connection and cue from your dog side hand, to the other hand as you rotate – it will end up looking like one of those backwards sends, but now there is motion in and out of it.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! They are challenging but do-able. The trick is to keep your arms in really tight to your ribs, so you don’t have to use up a millisecond to move your arms around – you can just turn your head to make connection.
And timing is super early with fast dogs like Mitre:
do the first blind as early as you can get commitment to the wing, such as starting it when she is halfway between the tunnel and the wing. Then as she is finishing the wrap and her nose it exiting the wing and heading to your new side, you do the second blind and make connection. It will feel early but should work like a charm!
Have fun!
TracyYay! This is great news! She figured out the joys of running up the board 🙂
Even if this happened before the wobble board and tip assist got much use, they will still come in REALLY handy in training!
T
Hi! Thanks for coming to the webinar!!!!
>>I was wondering if you could answer my question for retraining? For River, I’m going to try the two bowls technique to encourage her to focus on the weaves and be happier about it. Her course is going really well and she’s doing fabulously, but still stops dead and barks in a trial, or she stops and then walks past the first few poles. I’m doing a lot of FEO from now on, but it’s so strange that she’s so confident now, but she still can’t do them in the ring. The question is this: should I change the cue as we hopefully change the CER and her confidence with the two bowls game?>>
The thing with issues that were probably brought on by pain, is that the brain literally re-wires so even when there is no pain, the brain will act like there is still pain (there is a webinar on Behavior Vets by Dr. Kathy Murphy about it – called something line “Pain Rewires The Brain” and it was very enlightening).
So it is more than CER, it is also new neural pathways. I wish we could change the weave behavior into a different behavior on the poles, but alas… LOL!! And that is why she cannot yet weave in the ring again.
So I would approach it a couple of ways, similarly to how I approached HSM’s start line concerns (rooted in pain too, pushing off a knee that was causing pain and we didn’t know it).
In training, yes: do the pattern with the Super Bowls like I did on the start line and also with CB on the 6 poles, and with EASY poles (like open channels, just 6 of them). Do lots and lots of little short fun sessions with the reinforcement on you like I did with Elektra and CB (not remote reinforcement). Do this in different places too.
You can also introduce the concept of using toy play at the bowls for when you cannot use food (but food is faster and more efficient for sure).
Then you can take it into the ring: UKI will allow you to out your 2 bowls out there (probably best to not use actual bowls so no one gets twitchy, maybe just bowl-like targets that she has already see in training).
When she is doing well with the home games, you can go to the pattern that uses the remote reinforcement with the food/toys waiting near the bowls on each side.
When she is doing well with that at home AND with the pattern with toys in the ring (in training, with distractions, new places, new people, etc not just at home – be sure to do this to prepare for trials). Then you can take the remote reinforcement pattern into the trial ring – either toy play, toy stays in the bowl, run in, weave, run out, toy play at 2nd bowl. This is trickier but UKI certainly allows it within the rules.
And since the distractions are hard at trials, don’t make trials all about weaves, that is too much pressure. Continue helping her relax and have a grand time in trials, doing as many runs *without* weaves as possible to create a great internal feeling about trial environments 🙂
>>For Muso on the teeter, due to her size (approx 19 lbs), should we do 2o2o? I feel like that might be clearer for her, like Hot Sauce, and also easier props-wise, since sticking things to the teeter isn’t the most transferable prop. She seemed to want to offer 2o2o at the start. >>
There is a trend to do a 4on nowadays with all of these medium and large dogs, people say it is faster but they cannot quantify it as being faster (nor is it faster when we time it). It is faster when to early release 🙂 but then what happens is that the criteria gets grey and the entire performance slows down (because the dog begins to stop sooner). And teeter calls in North America do not allow as much of a fly off as European judges allow LOL!!
So when we compare the speed and longevity of criteria on 4on versus 2o2o? The 2o2o is faster (because the dog is always driving to the end of the board to put front feet on the ground) and easier to maintain (because it is really obvious to handler and dog if the 2o2o is correct, and 4on is not nearly as obvious!.) And when you are trying to win an event (not Novice, obviously hahaha) you can release early (and then there is always criteria to go back to if needed).
A criticism people use about 2o2o is that the dog will get bounced off because they don’t have all their weight on the board – trained correctly, the dogs are weight shifting and have learned to control the bounce of the board, so I have never ever had that issue.
Muso is exactly closer to what Export’s size and weight were, and he had a gorgeous 2o2o teeter for a 10 year career, including plenty of high level success 🙂 HSM is taller/longer/heavier/less confident than Muso, so a better comparison is to Export.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Congrats on the beautiful litter! They are adorable! And I am sure they are keeping you busy!
The wrap games here are looking really good!
Cookie coughing on rep 1? Rep 2 was really tight and good early rotation
Spin to get to tunnel looked great (in the middle and on the last rep too – super!!!)
Good timing of starting the blind at :36
You switched the toy from hand to hand on the first rep, but you had it in the correct hand on the other reps and that made for better timing of the reconnection (the toy switch does take an extra heartbeat and delays connection). The earlier you got the connection, the tighter those blinds were 🙂 You can also send to the tunnel from maybe 2 steps further away on these, so you are closer to the wing on the blind and can decel into it – which then positions you to be moving directly towards the next wing.One other idea, since we are looking at ways to get her to open up and extend ore on course: When you reward, she likes chasing the toy a whole lot! So we can transfer that value to chasing you, which then transfers nicely to course work: Instead of stopping and throwing the reward past you, try to have her chase you as you are waving the toy then when she catches up, she can grab it and you let go as she grabs it, and she runs through the toy to keep running (so she is not taking it from your hand or wrenching your shoulder or her neck). That will get even more speed because she will begin to associate your running with the arousal of the toy chase! Fun!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
