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Hi!
I am liking his work here – it is MUCH more like the striding you will want on the a-frame. Only one suggestion: For the cone -box – cone, rather than throw the reward after the box, have him wrap the next cone then throw the reward. Or, you can use a tug toy from your hand after he wraps the cone – that will also get the behavior going in higher arousal. The goal is to get him to NOT look at you at all which will transfer nicely to the frame.
When he can do cone-box-cone, the next step would be cone-frame w/ box – cone but the a-frame will need to be low with nothing under it to really get what you want đGreat job!
Tracy!Hi! No worries about the all caps! I know you are not yelling LOL!!
>>HEâLL PLAY WITH TOYS OUTSIDE THE RING/BY HER CRATE- NO PROBLEM AT ALL.
Excellent!! So create a bit of a pattern: toy play – food – toy play – food. Letâs pump up the value of the toy play so we can bring it more places đ Try it at home first (easy to do while you are recovering). And then we will get the toy play further and further from the food, with the goal to eventually have great toy play in the ring! When we add the remote reinforcement games next week, remind me that we need to do this with the food & toy pattern with her.
>>TOYS ARE NOT THAT POWERFUL ONCE IN THE RING AND OFF LEASH.>>
Is food still powerful in the ring and off leash? Will she play with toys in the ring and ON leash? Just trying to plan for the subtle details đ
>>I KNOW I CHANGE ONCE WE CROSS THAT THRESHHOLD OF THE GATE AS IM AFRID SHES JUST GOING TO RUN AROUND- SO IM SO NERVOUS! AND SHES A BIT SENSITIVE>>
All totally normal! The obstacles and the âworkâ are incredibly arousing, and as an adolescent, her arousal self-regulation is not fully in place (partially because she is just beginning to learn it, and partially because the part of the brain that controls it is not really developed in adolescent dogs). We have plenty of time until she is back in the ring, nothing to be nervous about đ
>>I DROVE 2 HOURS TO A CLASS WEEKLY JUST TO GET INTO A CLASS ON TURF- BUT INSTRUCTOR TOLD US NOT TO COME DUE TO TAKING LOCAL PRIVATE LESSONS OUTSIDE.>>
Wait what? They told you not to come because you took privates somewhere else? Huh? Maybe I am confused đ Letâs find you a supportive group in your area, because we need to get her into that setting.
>>BEFORE SHE CAME IN SEASON
Was she very hormonal? Girl Bus can be very hormonal for a while after a season.
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>>WE USED A BOX/MAT LIKE A TARGET FOR HER TO GO TO- AND SHE DID REALLY REALLY WELL.>>Fantastic!! We build on similar concepts here soon.
>>ONLY RAN OFF ONCE WHEN I TRIED TO GET HER TO DO HER WEAVES IN THE RING (SHE CAN WEAVE)-ASSUMING THE ENVIRONMENT WAS TOO HARD FOR THAT.>>
Exactly! The environment was too hard and her brain went into flight mode. Donât ask for weaves in new places yet – but if you are able to train them at home, you can add some arousal and distraction that will help transfer them to new places!
>>SHE WAS âCAUGHTâ THEN BECAUSE I HAD THE MAT THERE WHERE I COULD SEND HER AND SHE WOULD STAY AND I COULD LEASH HER UP.>>
One important thing is to NOT let her associate any one thing in particular with meaning the work/play is finished. So donât make a habit of always getting her on the mat, leashing, exiting. You can make it more of a variable reinforcement schedule, using the work as the reinforcement: for now, about 75% of the time, you will call her to the mat, leash her⌠then take the leash off and go back to do more of the sequence or a few more obstacles. That will keep the mat and leashing up VERY motivating and she wonât avoid it. If leashing up means âyouâre doneâ she will start avoiding the leash and then that association will transfer to the mat, and she will avoid that (eventually we will replace the mat with the leash itself!) And donât put her back in a trial environment until all of that is squarely in place, to only rehearse what you want to rehearse in that environment.
>>THOSE ARE GOING GREAT! ONLY TRIED THEM AT HOME- SO GOTTA GET HER OUTSIDE A BIT THIS WEEK, EVEN IF ITS THE FRONT YARD AS FRONT YARD IS VERY DISTRACTING. IF SHE CANT FOCUS IN THE FRONT YARD- SO WE GO TO LIKE THE FRONT PORCH OR DO I WAIT UTNIL SHES âREADYâ>>
Is she returning her engagement to you really quickly in the house? If so, take it to the front porch first (not the yard yet) and use higher value reinforcement. And if that goes well, do the next session back in the house to keep the game easy and neutral. The following session can be started on the porch and then moved to the yard. If she can’t do it in the yard, go back to the porch or in the house. And keep me posted!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Thanks for your patience! Finals went really well, even with having to run them at 9:40 pm!!
Looking at the pattern games clips –
The first one went really well. He did look at the environment a little but you were patient and he re-engaged quickly. And looking at the environment and processing it is exactly what we want him to do! Looks like the harder direction was towards the other campers.The up and down game was a little easier for him (it works differently on their bodies than the back and forth game) so that is good to know!!
2nd clip – not bad at all, considering the distractions were much harder! The latency was higher (meaning it took him longer to re-engage) but not that much longer. I am sure he could see and hear the other people but did really well!
>they spoke but an elderly couple had come up from behind me and wanted to say hi to my âMalteseâ >
At least they didnât go with something like Cocker Spaniel LOL!!!
In the 3rd video, had they people you were chatting with gone away? The latency was lower here (he was very quick to re-engage) which is great!
He was great with the up and down here too, because there were som very audible distractions! Yay!So what we can see in these videos:
– the back and forth is harder because it asks him to handle environmental distractions, so it takes him a little longer.
– The up and down game appears easier, perhaps because there are fewer distractions we are introducing, less moving back and forth, and the up and down head position sets his internal system jump really well.So these games can keep going on the road: try up and down in harder environments, and back and forth in easier ones, and see how he does! The more you rehearse these, the better he will get at it. And since you were working with distractions here, remember to balance these sessions with sessions with zero distractions (like inside the trailer :)) to keep the games neutralized đ
>>He behaved very well and didnât seem to be disturbed by the noise and the dogs. He was able to lay by my side and be calm. He got measured and didnât have any issues with the judge or the process. However, although I tried the simplest up and down game, he COULD NOT POSSIBLY eat any food in this environment. Also couldnât play with a toy. Thatâs unfortunate >>
Not unfortunate at all! It is fantastic information and feedback from him. He was overaroused, per the science (being unable to eat or play is a sign of overarousal). But no worries, we love the feedback from him and can help!
3 things:
– distance is your friend. So if he canât eat or play, you are too close to the distraction. Move back and away to see if he can eat or play somewhere else. You might be pretty far away!– What type of food were you using? He is not a total foodie, so not wanting to eat is not totally surprising. You might need to go to tiny bits of mind-blowing food, even just for a few seconds (so he doesnât get GI upset).
– you can try moving away from the ring or distractions, and tie a fun toy to a line and have him chase it, like a flirt pole. Fun!
You can also try a buddy system – does he have any dog friends that are super confident and happy near the ring? You can walk them around together. This is social learning and it is pretty powerful! For example, at the flyball nationals, the young dog of a friend was a little freaked out at first. So, we walked her dog and my Ramen together because Ramen would model being super happy about all the things. So, by keeping the other dog moving and seeing a happy dog, he relaxed a whole lot.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for your patience!
I am glad she is more comfy with the leash on and playing the games! This will make it easier to take things on the road đ
On the first video – since you are using food, the cookie delivery needs to be very toy like from the instant she gets the ring đ With toys, we are always moving it away to get the pups to chase it and get excited. Doing the same with the cookies will be very exciting and engaging!
So try it like this:
Trick – then you run 2 or 3 steps away from her, playfully, then let her get the cookie from your hand after she chases you. Or, after you run a couple of steps, you can have her put her front feet up on you like you did at the end of the video and then deliver the treat. Letâs see what she thinks of that!On the 2nd video:
Very nice!A little too much stepping in towards the 2nd jump got the backside, so be sure to just move along the line and let her find it, like a serpentine. The rest looked good and she REALLY liked the go go go followed by the plastic bag toy! It makes me laugh that we can spend zillions of dollars on toys⌠and a plastic deli bag is the winner hahahaha!!
It looked like you were maybe lining up to do it again at the end, but after a terrific run like that you can give her a break and end on a high note đGreat job here!
TracyHi! Thanks for your patience! It was a CRAZY couple of days but coming home with a shiny new national championship makes the the exhaustion worthwhile LOL!!!!
>>She got to practice this with a fellow max pup participant Paula and Pizazz!!! Great mini class environment.>>
That is SO WONDERFUL!! The more you can expose her to those environments with action and rewards and distractions, the better she will be in the trial environment in the long run.
I think of these things as a scale: if the âregularâ environment is a balanced scale, we need to keep it balanced. So when the environment is harder, we need to make the skills easier to keep the success level high. And if the environment is easy, you can make the skills harder. But you donât want to do both (hard environment, hard skills) at this early stage of training.
You can see this in the line up, when she lined up backwards at the start of the video – which was adorable!
>>One issue they are facing is when a mistake is made, it though it is rewarded I think she has some fallback from it.>>
I totally agree and I see what you mean! Dogs (even baby dogs) are brilliant and even when they get a toy or cookie, they know when something has gone right or wrong because we stop or we make weird noises LOL!! They also know that when we do the same thing over and over⌠that something has gone wrong somewhere. So, I like limiting the # of reps to 2 or 3, total, no matter if it ends up right or wrong (as an old person, I am HAPPY to only run something twice hahahahaha)
So when something goes wrong on a sequence, the trick isâŚ. Always act like it was utterly perfect, the best ever, keep running like you nailed it đ It does require some acting skills because we humans always seem to make the oops or ugh or strange noises and stop – I donât think we are even really mad at the dog or trying to tell them they are wrong, but the dogs still read it as âoh no, I was wrong, uh ohâ and they deflate.
So on the first sequence, you had TONS of great speed and connection on the first 2 runs⌠they were not exactly perfect but that is perfectly fine because NO runs are perfect with baby dogs LOL!!! So, if it is âpretty goodâ you can move to the next sequence. No need for do-overs!
And if something goes wrong – just keep running, make up a sequence, finish like it was a big win, then reward⌠and then watch the video to see what happened. That will give you both a moment to get back in sync. And if you saw what happened, you donât have to even repeat that sequence – you can
>> I believe when Annalise was disconnecting on the second jump to get into her position for 3 was a great example. She will still do the sequencing, but starts off slow and disengaged in those instances. >>
Yes – even though Prytania ended up with the toy or cookie, she totally knew the difference between âTHAT WAS AMAZINGâ and âthat was not rightâ. It doesnât matter that it was human error (disconnection), she still felt it and got a little concerned and careful. Some dogs get careful and concerned, like Prytty, some dogs get BIG MAD and barky (Promise, I am looking at you hahahaha)
So, just make it ALL amazing (because it is đ )
And yes, it was a disconnection, no worries – we all disconnect sometimes. So if it happens and she ends up on the wrong side of you or skips a jump, you have full permission to just make something up and run and reward like you won the blue ribbon.
Or on the 2nd turn, when she was not sure about the 1st jump, you can just keep going like she took it and was perfect. No more stopping, even if you give her a cookie or toy. Run run run! Doesnât matter if she takes all the jumps or not, because that is more about what you are showing her (or not :)) Running baby dogs is VERY hard because we have to be pretty perfect!
By the 3rd turn, she was done with that sequence đ but you kept running and it was a thing of beauty! Look how it got her back! I would have ended on that and not tried the 4th turn. You were probably trying to get turn to the tunnel without the extra jump, but no worries about making it perfect – the main goal is fast and fun for both of you đ Accuracy doesnât really matter right now đ
I do have a game coming later in the class that teaches the dogs that disconnection is AWESOME including a demo of me accidentally disconnecting from Contraband in a trial, early in his career (3 times in one run, poor dog hahahaha)
>>It sometimes here, promise ass promise Reese Carries into their next turn. >>
Looks like autocorrect took over here but I think you were saying it carries into the next turn – yes, especially if you start on the same jump or do the same sequence. So keeping it fast and fun and switching sequences a lot will really help that.
>>Day 2 I changed the rules on Annalise based off of yesterday. Only 3 attempts allowed on a turn!! And if you run it clean, big celebration and jackpot!!! I>>
Yes! 3 attempts is plenty and remember, it doesnât need to be perfect đ We are going for Practice and Progress, not Perfection đ
And you can celebrate and jackpot every run because, the pup is responding correctly to all the cues đ
On the 2nd video, the layer is really hard so it was great to just keep going fast and happy! On the 2nd run, donât react to her missing the jump – even though she got the toy, you stopped and made a noise. – you can adjust the handling like you did on the 3rd run.
She got to the correct side of the push at :15 but ended up in the tunnel, so that is a good place for acting: yay! Keep running, find a line (any line LOL!) and reward :). The big praise and reward was great!
The turn from :38 to :55 was great: fast, high energy, and smooth!!!! When you get that⌠donât try again. Both of you were lower energy on the next run, so it went sideways. You can end on a big glorious run even if it was not perfect. You did get her back on the last run, but try to finish even sooner: you get one good fast run with a baby dog, be finished.
Now, to work on handling without the baby dog⌠try the sequence with one of the adult dogs first! Get it smooth and then watch the video⌠then try it with the pup đ I often run sequences with my older dogs first so I can be as clear as possible for the pup đ
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello! Thanks for your patience!!!
This sequence looked lovely! One subtle detail: You can pressure his line a tiny bit more on the rear cross, so he turns to his right before he takes off. You can be moving to the center of the bar til he takes off and. that should be all he needs. You pulled your shoulder to the left turn side of the wing a bit so he took off looking to his left, then he saw the RC when he was in the air and turned to his right. So it is just a matter of being literally one step sooner moving to the center of the bar to get it perfect.
The rest looked fabulous – great stay, lovely connection!!!! Yay!!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Donât know whether itâs better to use food or toy with this. Food takes less time, but she likes toy better.>>
Food then a toy! Use both!
The lap turns on one wing looked good in both directions!
When you send to the first wing – the most important part of of the send cue is eye contact – if you sent with a high arm and didnât really connect, she barked or didnât go to the wing.
For the lap turn element, she needs to see your magic cookie hand down at her nose level as much as possible, so try to extend your hand down low and towards her, as if offering a treat! When you did that, she was perfect like at 1:24 on the first video.
You had your hand lower and presented it a little more obviously on the 2nd video, so she did well! You can make it even more obvious by extending it towards her more, locking your elbow – aim to have your hand down by your knee, not up by your hip, and I bet she reads it every time.
>>We also did this again tonight, and added Tandem turns. I thought it went well, although she doesnât always turn around the wing tightly. >>
Yay! I am glad she did well! No need to worry about how tight they are right now, we can add more tightness later on đ
Great job!
TracyHi! She is sorting it out, nothing to be embarrassed about or frsutratined with at all!
1st video:
The âgo straightâ lines at the beginning looked great!For the first couple of outs of the first video – I think your hand is too high – she is tiny and it was at your shoulder height, so she didnât quite read it. She had a light bulb moment when you stepped to the jump.
Compare to the first out of the 2nd video, where the arm was lower and she turned away. That is rewardable even though she didnât quite get to the jump bar in time.That is just a cue processing thing. The toy was not the problem – I think the low hand helped and the next step to help her is to slow down your motion. Running straight and upper body cuing the out is hard, but walking would make it easier – and so would moving the wing a little further so she has more time to process the cues.
It looks like the wing was right in line with the jump, so you can change itâs position – looking at the 3rd video, move the wing closer to the camera so she doesnât have to sort it all out as quickly for now. That way she has time to get it while you ware walking forward.
She was definitely sorting it out in the 3rd video, so now let the behavior ârestâ so she can cement the learning. That way she can come back to it in a few days! It sounds like she is already doing better with it. The most important element of this game is to NOT go to the jump if you donât cue it, and she nailed it!
And good catch, thinking the bar on the ground was distracting her and swapping it out for a weave pole. Smart!!!Great job đ
TracyKeep me posted! I can totally relate – it sounds DERANGED to ask an aroused dog to get more excited LOL! But, the science supports it and so do the results. We just need to experiment a little to tweak it for his needs. Hopefully I’ll see you both at a trial soon so I can see him in person!
TracyHi! I’m excited to plan for her return to the ring!
>>The recent ones- she did not care that I had a toy. Im not exactly sure what im asking here⌠but maybe should I still carry a toy even if she does not care about it at all. To stop in the middle of a âfocusedâ run for a toy I think will cause her to run around. No idea if that makes sense. We havenât had that many successful FEO runs>>
I think what your describing is Border Collie adolescent Overarousal đ but I have more questions to be sure:
– at home and in class, will she play with a toy and/or eat treats away from the ring and not near equipment?
-at class, do you use food rewards or toys in your turns on course?
About the not coming back at the end… do you see this anywhere else with her? I can relate – when my Contraband was about 18 months old, he showed distinct signs of NOT coming back at the end LOL! He would take his frisbee and go live feral under a tree at my house LOL!
So I worked him through it is a top priority before putting him in the ring, with 3 parts to it:– teach arousal regulation
– get useful reinforcement and motivators to use in the ring
– work specifically on the end of run behaviorAnd also letting the adolescent brain mature a bit đ
All of these are on our agenda coming soon. Definitely let me know how the pattern games and volume dial are going!
Let me know what you think!
TracyYou bet I’ll keep sending ideas! And hopefully in the spring we can trial together!
For now, don’t be afraid to run. Worst thing that will happen is you are late LOL! Handling the way we want to gives us great insight and feedback from her.
Exciting times ahead!!!Tracy
Hi!
I wasn’t dictating but maybe I should have been LOL!
>>ââŚYo can also teach the skill with your hat far away âŚâ>>
I believe I was saying you can teach the skill with your position far away like you started, with a toy placed to help direct his focus.
I’ll blame my pups for distracting me LOL!!!
I don’t see any tagged videos on Facebook đ hmmmmm. I will look on my Mac and iPad and see what’s going on. Did you install am update recently? Maybe Google and Apple had a falling out? Lol!
Tracy
Hi! He was such a good boy here! And the volume dial game also plays an important role in âteachingâ his physiology to self-regulate by bringing him up to the higher state (and eventually past it) then back to a more centered state. It is really cool stuff!
The paw tricks here are a good start to the value dial game, but we need to change the food delivery to change the arousal state. Instead of hand it to him in a stationary position, get the trick then run a few steps with him chasing you, then hand it to him after he moves a bit. Make the cookies into a toy đ
For the backing up and side-stepping for the toy – choose tricks that donât require as much criteria. Those warm up movements are taught in a different arousal state, so when he was in a higher arousal state, there was some drift in the behavior (state dependent memory explains it, and it is fine for those behaviors).
Spins, high fives, etc, stuff you donât really care that much about – those are perfect for this game. He will get frustrated (over-aroused) if he is being told he is wrong on these behaviors, and we definitely donât want to over-arouse him. Also, tug on a 1:1 ratio – 1 behavior, 1 tuggie moment.
The spins are great, definitely do those! Add a leash so you can start to make the leash a normal part of it đ
On the sequencing:
He is reading this really well, and giving great feedback on the cues he sees. Good boy!! I would like to see some more energy and play at the start line, and less control and calmness. Embrace the arousal because that is the state he will be in at trials đ
He read the opening really well! You were pretty late on the turn cues for 3 (they started after he landed from 3) so he responded as nest he could. Donât tell him no or stop⌠keep going! Just roll with it. Our young dogs donât have crystal balls LOL! So if the go wide or off course, it was a handler error and we just need to roll with it and reward the dog. The cue to turn at 3 would start, at the latest, at landing of 2.
You were much earlier on the next run and he turned better! Try not to back up in your handling, that is what caused the refusal on the next run. Send and turn to the next line rather than run backwards. Then keep driving all the way through the last jump, so he can stay in extension and not ask questions (which caused the last bar to drop).
After taking the toy away – ask for a down stay as you reset. If you donât and turn your attention to something else, he starts to circle then gets told he is wrong, but he needs more telling of when he is right đ
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Great questions here! And this is where the training gets uncomfortable for the humans đ because it seems counterintuitive but it works like a charm.>>Vinny is always ready to do agility.
Yes – but that does not mean he is in the optimal arousal state or attentional state to do it successfully đ
>>I donât ever feel the need to get him even more aroused.
This is where the agility folks start to twitch LOL!! The science says that actually you DO have to get him more aroused. Part of it is to get him into the optimized state of arousal (he sounds like he can be over-aroused, which is actually *lower* arousal per the science) and also it can get him into the sustained attentional state which is a good thing (more on that later in this class).
>>I started doing a hand tap for food with him to try and get him to focus on me. Canât say he loves that game. Doubt he would do it outside the ring at an agility trial at this point. I>>
Then donât do it, take it out of the toolbox đ It sounds like the behavior and the food are not motivating and probably shift his arousal state into overarousal, which is where frustration lives.
>>Iâm not sure what I should be trying to do. He has his warm up exercises which are back-up, side step, spins, stand to down or sit. >>
Use these and any other goofy moving thing⌠and use an action reward. It can be a few seconds of tugging, or chasing a cookie in your hand. But ACTION is the name of the game for the volume dial. And I know it sounds WEIRD but it will help to optimize arousal state AND give us tremendous feedback on what he needs. The volume dial game done correctly will NOT get him into over-arousal đ Crazy sounding but totally true!
>>Thatâs outside where we have space to move so itâs removed from the stimulation that over aroused him. But what can I do inside that would engage him? >>
The volume dila game with the tricks you describe above, but with a tug toy closer to your hand. No running back and forth. You donât need much room at all (rehearse it first at home so you get the feel for it)
>>Right now he wonât tug or take food outside the ring. This is where I feel Iâm stuck.>>
Then he is not quite ready to be that close to the ring (or in the ring) til we teach him more of the arousal regulation games. No worries, this is normal. Have him as far from the ring as needed to start this (after it is rehearsed at home). And start it at trials during course builds, so there are obstacles but not dogs running. Eventually we will build to dogs running and he will be able to do it.
The key is to rehearse it systematically at all levels, starting from home then cranking it up. Adding the arousal at every step is super important, as we are building the neural pathways we want. Practice makes pathways!
Tracy
Hi!
>>The ultimate goal is down outside the ring while the last dog runs, LLW through the gate, eye contact, line up and go. So, todays session is down followed by LLW predicts work.>>
That is a good ultimate goal! But also – be flexible because your end result may not turn out that way. It is mainly a dog-directed framework, and she will tell us what she needs and how she needs it. So it is possible that it will work out just like this! Or, it is possible that you tweak elements both in the overall framework and also pull things from the toolbox we develop for in-the-moment tweaks.
A down outside the ring while the last dog runs – well, she might think that is perfectly comfortable! Or she might find it really uncomfortable and need to move a bit. So we will experiment and let her give us feedback (because the dogs ALWAYS give us feedback :)) So, stay flexible as she brings this into the agility environment.
On the video:
I agree, this is looking really good! A nice busy environment! Adding the volume dial game into it brings in the arousal state change element which will be incredibly useful. She did really well here with all elements of it and it is a great framework for getting started in front of agility equipment. That will be more challenging! When is your next class? The agility environment will change her state more than the park environment will, so get everything on video. This is actually the MOST fascinating element of it all, is getting the feedback from the dog and implementing it. I have some really cool success stories to share with the class in the next Zoom talk!Great job here!!
Tracy
