Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
No worries about the scent, if more than one dog was really interested. Must have been a good scent LOL!! If you see something he has trouble with, you can move a little further away and try a pattern game. I am really excited about how well he is engaging in the trial environment!!
Hi! You are doing awesome with your cues! It is totally normal to have to learn the different timing needs of new dogs as we start trialing, which is why it is important to just carry on if something goes wrong – that way the dogs still feel comfortable giving us the feedback on the handling and don’t slow down or get mad at us 🙂
Keep me posted on how she does at AKC this weekend! You can use food closer to the ring at AKC trials than at NADAC trials, so you can try the up and down game closer to the ring and see how she does!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Food is powerful EVERYWHERE!
I can relate! LOL! Food is life!
>>There’s still times she’ll disengage from the chicken hearts- my trainer calls it that her brain is too full- so she’s just done. She’s not one of those border collies that can keep doing the same thing over and over again.>>
Be sure to keep a timer on your sessions – 2 minutes or less! If she is working for too long and stops eating a high value reinforcement, that definitely means she needed a break sooner 🙂
>>yes- the indoor lesson instructor said it would be best if she stayed in one environment, so whatever..
I disagree, I think the pups should be in all sorts of different environments! So the more places you can get her into, the better 🙂 I think you and I are on the same page with that 🙂
>>My local club is being very supportive though! Especially when they remembered back when their dogs were young and doing the same thing! So often we forget when our dogs were babies when we’re up in Master level!.. we just dont have an indoor place to practice all the time.>>
That is great!!!! I love that they are supporting your adventures with her!! Maybe when you are back on your feet you can do a training tour of different backyards?
>> I was just talking about her being in season as a reason we had to stop going to the run thurs recently. indoor sessions only happen every once in a while so I was a bit upset that we have to miss them.>
Ah, that is a bummer! But I am glad she didn’t get overly hormonal.
>>Regarding the mat- yes sometimes we go to the mat- and run again and so on! just the mat helps her understanding, it seems- just can’t seem to get rid of that as I think I/we dont know how to end appropriately.>>
No worries! The mat will eventually move outside the ring (I hav a game for that) and the leash will replace the mat. Fun times ahead!
>>so we literally have to train in a regulation ring to make ANY progress.>>
Yes, that would be great, but also not required 🙂 The bigger ring brings more arousal – so we can simulate that at home by adding more arousal. That is where the pattern games and volume dial game comes in, because we use those to regulate arousal WAY up (like a trial) then back down. It is very cool and can really help!
>>I did have a question about the Volume dial game- so she can go from tug tug tug, we out the toy- then I down her and she listens and sit theres and waits for me to do it again. How do I know she’s NOT still over aroused? like she’s anticipating the game now so she’s downing because thats what I said, but her insides are still over aroused?>>
Excellent questions! And the answer is… we don’t know til we noodle around with it in different contexts. Her body has to learn to regulate up and down, and that takes time and practice. Neural pathways! Plus, she needs more maturity (you will see a HUGE difference when adolescence is finished) and experience.
And in the meantime, we practice the games and observe her responses during the game, as well as what happens after it. It is an observational, experimental process that helps us develop a plan for her, helps her manage herself, and helps us know what it looks like when she is under-aroused, over-aroused, and in that perfect state of arousal 🙂 Kind of like Goldilocks and the three bears – she was eating their porridge and it was too hot, too cold… just right! It will take us a little bit of time to sort out what her “just right” is, and her pre-frontal cortex needs to finish developing (that part of the brain controls the executive function and suppresses emotional responses, both of which are very helpful in agility LOL!)
>>I really appreciate answering all these questions! This is so helpful and I think once I get her back from the breeder (she goes Saturday :(( ) after my surgery, Im hoping to have a nice game plan! Im hoping to get her back once I can at least walk so maybe I’ll have her back before this class ends!>>
Keep asking the questions, I am enjoying the planning with her! And since you have some time off your feet, we can put together plans for when you are back in action! And I can also point you to other threads to watch, as we figure out which pups will be similar.
When is your surgery? I will be thinking of you!
Tracy
Awesome! We will be able to put some of the bigger pieces together and see how she does! At this early stage, think of trialing as ‘fact-finding missions’ where we try to figure out what she needs in the environment (in and out of the ring) and when she needs to see it. No rush for Qs or anything, just getting the teamwork where we want it!
Tracy
Good morning!
Very nice session here, you did a great job breaking it down and working all of the elements. Super!!!
2 small suggestions:
You can line him up on more of a slice at jump 1, so he is doing a hard slice over it and lands facing the line to 2 (rather than facing straight over 1 then turning after landing).
On the RC before the tunnel, you can get tighter to the center of the bar like you did at 1:54 when you worked it on 2 jumps. To do this, when doing the full sequence, you can start moving to the center of the bar of the RC jump before he takes off for the previous jump. This is a tricky line – you can move forward the center of the bar sooner, but you need to let him get past you before you finish the RC because you will be a little ahead of him as you move up the line (but he will easily pass you :))
He drove ahead of you brilliantly at the end of the sequence too!
At the end, it looked like you added some spicy arousal with some tricks before running it again, and he was perfect! He was a little faster because he was more pumped up, but your handling was lovely and he did a great job!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Thanks for your patience everyone! It all turned out well, just really long days – we started racing at 7:30 am and ran Finals after 9:30PM. Eek!
Good morning!
Do you happen to know what iOs your phone is on? I want to take a look at iMovie today and figure out why it is giving you problems. I have different versions of iOS installed on different devices so might be able to figure it out.
Video is loading right now (YouTube is being weird with it!) so I will let it fully load up then be back with thoughts for you 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
The up and down game looked good! Plenty of distractions and she did really well, even when someone walked right behind you!
>>After this, we did a back and forth game away from the ring but with her back to the steps where people and dogs were going up and down. That was actually too much for her. I didn’t think this attempt (on video) was too bad!>>
It is possible that it was too hard for her to assess the environment when her back was too it. So if she struggles, you can turn her around to look at the distractions while she is playing the game. And, separately, practice this game at home with a novel (but easy) distraction behind her so she understands how to handle that challenge.
Looking at the trial runs – she does indeed seem pretty comfy in the ring when you start running! And we want to keep it that way, so don’t fix any errors in the runs 🙂 All of the errors were handling errors, even the weave errors (other than the altercation moment, but that was fine that she looked at it – it was loud and scary!!)
Stopping to fix errors in handling can be deflating or frustrating to the dog, and also dilute response to cues – as well as change arousal state which opens up the environment as a distraction. She was reading you correctly, so stopping her to try again can be confusing.
For example in TnG, after the tunnel under the frame, you were still moving forward so she did check in with you, saw your motion forward even though you were calling her, and went to the hoop straight ahead. We don’t want her to think that it is wrong (to correctly follow your handling) so if she goes off course or past something? Assume it was handler error and carry on.
Or in Jumpers, you were a little late with the turn 4-5 so she went around it. You gave a MUCH better cue in the second run so she got the jump (but pulled the bar, which means it was still a little late 🙂 plus the distance was short and you had a big “yes” over the bar, so she hit the wing)
With the weave errors – she is a baby dog and that angle of entry was not on a natural line, so she needed a bit more of a turn cue on the jump before it to help line her up. Without it, she had trouble getting organized for the weave entry. Eventually it won’t be a problem, but as a baby dog we want to help her out 🙂
>>she definitely is nervous in the building and around the other dogs when not in the ring. We did eat treats throughout the day, but I didn’t even attempt any tugging.
You can try some tugging and see how she feels! She will either enjoy it, or she will say “no thanks”. Either way is fine 🙂 And the food is pretty powerful, so you can increase the value of the food as you get closer to the ring and to the distractions.
She did better on the start line (in terms of not sniffing or looking around) in the runs where you were being a little more active, moving a little, etc.
So one thing to experiment with is going to the line, keeping her moving a bit (adding a trick or two) – then when they are ready for you, ask for the sit, take the leash off, and lead out. When she was not moving or in the sit for too long with you facing her and not moving, she started to look around a bit. We will work on ways to keep the engagement level high and the arousal level high (which is a good thing!) so the environment doesn’t become distracting. When is her next trial?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! These are going well with Maisy! And I am glad that Sassy had no problem 🙂
>#1 proved harder than I thought because I was trying to do my FX rotation early. Too early is evidently a thing as is too late.>>
Yes, too early is a thing sometimes , especially coming out of a tunnel. We have to let them exit, let the see the jump, and then rotate. It is just one stride later than what you did when she came off the jump, and the same timing as the other reps.
Two other details on this sequence opening:
We want to cue her as far in advance about the turn to 4, and that includes your path of motion. You were moving to between the uprights/center of the bar of 3, which presents a straight line over 3. That is why she was going wide on 3, and then not turning til after landing. Ideally, you would be moving up the line towards 4 so she takes 3 laterally and sees you near 4 and starts turning that way.
The rest of the lines looked really good!
Also, try to do this with more running 🙂 I realize that the space is small, but you can lead out less or run closer to the lines on the simpler parts, so it is more like what you would do at trials. If she sees you walking in practice but running in trials, the timing will change as will her jumping.

>>#2 – she kept taking the less obvious wing at no.3. Why?>That was interesting! I think it was because the handling cue looked like a threadle wrap/rear cross cue. It was very subtle! Your lead out position was good but then you didn’t move forward to 3 – you cued the jump with your left hand kind of like cuing a threadle wrap, and your position (still nearer to 2) was on the RC line. So…. She did the rear cross.
So as she is approaching 2, you should be connected with your arm back like you were here, and also moving to jump 3 on the right turn wing, cuing the right turn wrap. You can then send and leave for the next line, or do a spin.
The rest looked good! Yay!

>>#3 – we love rears. Nothing gets between her and a tunnel on her line.>>
The rear cross looked great!! Yay! Her only question on this one was the fist jump – that slice was hard for her! You can try setting her up one more full stride further from the jump, so she has time to organize her takeoff better. You can also re-visit the zigzag grids (I believe she did them?) to help remind her of that hard jumping skill.
>>Would you indulge me and look at a trial video with one of those lead out pivot type openings and tell me what I did wrong?
Absolutely! I would love to look at it!
>>As an aside, I get quite scared when judges put maximum distance between jumps and then a tight turn. I’m always afraid she will jump long and take me out.>>
Most turns, you should not be in between the uprights so you should be safe :)) Like on sequence 1, always be heading towards the next jump and not between the uprights of the turn jump. And on the lead out push where you *do* have to be between the uprights, you will start moving away no later than landing of the previous jump (so she won’t run into you :))
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>I always try and keep sessions short with her as I feel that when she starts to get tired the bars start to come down>>
I agree! There is no need to fatigue the dog or create questions by doing sessions that are too long.
>>These distances are a lot closer than what we usually get at trials- it differs very much from judge to judge but we’re starting to get more European style courses in the state where I live I love these, >>
The Euro courses were HUGE distances for a while but now they are coming back into the 7m range.
>>but there’s a bit of a teething stage where a lot of novice courses now have 9 and 10 metres in a straight line and a lot of straight tunnels which require tight turns after. >>
Yes, we see that happening here too in UKI, so feel free to adjust the distances to show her those 10m lines. They do make things spicy with all that speed!!!
Looking at the videos: she is FUN!!! YAY!!! A couple of suggestions for you:
>>I’ve been working on a look cue at the first jump so that I can lead out laterally and was really happy with how she did this here.>>
She nailed it!!! Yay! Try not to get into a rhythm of the look cue being immediately followed by the release – on the 2nd run, she was starting to move before the release. We don’t want to accidentally turn the look cue into the release 🙂
On both sequences, you have all sorts of great timing and connection! Super!!! My only suggestions are that we can fine tune your position on crosses, and figure out how to get more collection on wraps. Here are specifics:
Seq 1:
Excellent job with your focus forward on the jump, Sonnet!!!!!You might have noticed she went wide on the FC 3-4. You had good timing on the FC at :19 and :48 in terms of getting it finished before she took off for 3, but I think your positional cue of driving forward past 3 was what sent her wide, despite the rotation being well-timed. She was already in the air when she saw you heading to 4, so she adjusted after landing. So keep the same timing, but use more lateral distance so she sees you already near 4 as she exits the tunnel and you are cuing 3. That position on the line and your good timing should get the turn before takeoff.
Does she have a soft turn verbal, like “left”, to help for that turn? That can help get the turn a little tighter too! It sounds like you were calling her name, so a soft turn verbal should work nicely there.
For the wraps:
Good timing of starting the decel and easy verbal at :50 for jump 5. Is that her wrap verbal? The brake arm and forward facing cue didn’t get quite as much collection as she can do, I bet. So you can either do the cue and leave sooner (when she lands from 4, cue and leave so you are facing 6 before she takes off for 5). Or, add a spin there. I haven’t seen her work yet so I am not sure which is better for you both 🙂
I don’t love to do a to of those reverse spins, but this is a good spot for one for 2 reasons:
-It puts you up the next line sooner 🙂 That is a good thing with all of her speed!-And it teaches her to predict that your decel means you are going to turn and run the other way, so she will put in the collection stride to chase you down the next line 🙂
Sequence 2: This is also a good one for thinking about positioning yourself to get a clearer line on the turns, and therefore better turns.
Lead out push:
She is wide over 2 at 1:20 – partially because your position was off the line 2-3, and partially because you can leave sooner to draw the line to 3.
Positionally, you were far from both the 2 and 3 jumps, so she was jumping straight towards you. You can position yourself closer to jump 2, literally standing right where you would ideally want her to land & turn. That can really draw the line for the turn! And it won’t out you in her way, because as soon as she lands from 1, you can start moving towards 3 while maintaining the great connection and physical cue you had here. That way you will be long gone when she needs the landing spot, and in a good position to cue the tight wrap on 3.
Blind cross: This is a spot where you can basically be running towards 3 the whole time (connected to her and with the same timing you had here or maybe a shade earlier :)) You ran forward past 2, so even with good timing on the BC, the running line presented a straight line so she was surprised and turned after landing of 2 at 1:39.
The wrap at 3 can be tighter without bleeding off her speed –
On the lead out push rep, you had a little too much motion to 3 (sounds like a nice quiet wrap verbal with it there!) so she was wide. You had nice decel into 3 at 1:41 but still wide… she is turning after landing. So you can try a spin here too, because like with the previous sequence, it gets you down the next line sooner and also will get her adding a collection before takeoff to chase your line 🙂We can also do some deceleration games to get her to respond to decel so you don’t need to do rotations in spots where a send-and-go is easier.
>>I included a quick video of her startline at the end as I wanted you to see what she does with repositioning her front paws and for your input. Recently I’ve done seminars with a couple of different presenters and one had no problem with it but one did. My general feeling is that I’m fine with it – if she breaks we go back and reset. I tried to experiment with a down for a bit but found that while she then kept her front feet still, she broke the stay more often. I don’t want to be fighting her on the startline over something that doesn’t really bother me but if it’s likely to become an issue I’ll see if I can fix it.>>
I agree – no fighting over startles!!And also, it is possible that she doesn’t even realize she is moving her front feet so feedback to NOT move her front feet might be confusing and frustrating for her.
Based on the lead out here, I think you are adding too much pressure and tension on the lead out by leading out slooowwwwwlllllly and maintaining massive connection. The longer that goes on, the more she fidgets with her feet and she looks away at one point. It is like leaving a tea kettle on to boil for too long! So something to try is, as soon as she is in her sit, you jog to your lead out position. Get there fast so she doesn’t boil over or wonder why you are staring at her LOL!! Yes, be connected, but it can be softer and you can get the game going more quickly. That might get her to keep her feet still! I generally don’t mind the little fidget step here and there, but I do think she will appreciate it if you move to position as fast as possible.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracySuper!!! When is her next trial or seminar? It would be fun to bring some of these to that environment and see how she does!!
Tracy
I believe we ran against them (and won, sorry not sorry haha) but I would have to check. I think we also saw a little blue merle pointy dog that is related, and that we were trying to steal LOL!!! SUCH AMAZING DOGS!!!
FANTASTIC job on these! I think you have proven that you CAN run hard and get the handling done really well 🙂
Video 1: Very nice! You can TOTALLY get where you need to be! And when she is more experienced, the lead out will be even easier. Nice FC timing at :08! The only thing I would add is the connection across your body (showing the toy in the opposite arm, across your belly) instead of trying to connect with the dog-side arm (:09) which created less connection and a wider turn (you can see her adjust after landing). The rest looked fast and connected, and she found a new gear of speed 🙂
Video 2 – when you decelerated for 3, I thought you were setting up the rear cross but then you did the FC. So if you want to tighten the turnn (which is fine) do the decel as she is over 2 so you can send to 3 when she lands then get outta there to do the cross (I vote for a BC there because it will be sooooo much easier than a FC and get you to the next line sooner. Doing the decel and a post turn after she landed from 2 made it harder (more hustle needed) to get the cross 4-5.
LOVED the decel/small brake arm at 5 at :07!
Seq 2: Nailed it and you even had time to decel into the FC!! On the cross exits, revisit the reward-across-the-body exit line connection and you’ll get the most speed AND the tightest turns 🙂 The rest looked great too!
3rd video: I scared my dogs when I yelled RUN! Because you were standing still for too long 1-2 LOL!! As soon as you see her feet up at jump 1, start to move through the serp – stay connected like you did, but giddy up outta there. You stayed there til she had feet up at 2, and I don’t think she needs you there as long, provided you give the clear upper body and connection you had here.
Being a little too close to 2 for too long made it harder to get around the jump in the middle (you had to jockey around it). Nice attention to the timing on the FC before the tunnel but it was a little late (right after her head went into the tunnel). Not having to jockey around the jump will give you time to decel there, show the turn before she enters, and then it will be perfect. The rest looked great!
So overall – great job driving hard through these!!!!
Tracy
Hi!
She was a super good girl in the FEO run here! Especially in the icky rain!!One big rule of FEO is… don’t fix handler errors 🙂 She needed a turn cue at :05, did not get one (because you are human LOL!) so she stayed on her line: GOOD GIRLIE! Just go with it even if you are not sure what happened (the video will reveal all after the run) Stopping her and fixing it indicates error… which will send youngsters into over-arousal/frustration which we do not want. She stuck with you here but it is like a bank account – don’t overdraw her young dog resilience by stopping and starting a lot, because that is when you will see behavior shift. So if she runs by a jump or goes wide or something? No worries! Carry on and fix it later 🙂
When is her next FEO opportunity?
T
Hi!
I think the MM helps marginally but I liked your cone-box-cone session a whole lot more!
On this video, he is looking at you a lot as he comes past the apex and through the down ramp, which sometimes causes you to click misses. So he is not really targeting the box – he is shuffling down til he hears a click. So as you work the a-frame, put yourself ahead enough that you can be watching the yellow (don’t look at him at all, just stare at the yellow) and only click when you see his feet in the box 🙂 I definitely think this skill needs to spend some time on a lowered frame so you can get the striding and timing. You can also elevate the box a little bit so it is more obvious to him.Tracy
