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Sorry for any confusion! It is the jumped she pulled off of at :15 – when she is taking off for that one, start the blind so she sees the new side really early.
T
Hi!
OMG, thank you for the kind words!! It has been an absolute pleasure being able to share in Rusty’s adventures. You and Rusty are already a fabulous team, and you are only at the beginning of your journey together. SO FUN!!!! Remember this, with tiny Rusty?
>Is there a course that logically follows this one. If yes, what one? If not, what would be your recommendation for Team Rusty?>
Yes! The MaxPup program takes you all the way through competition and Masters level 🙂 The next one for Team Rusty is MaxPup 2, which starts later in July:
Looking at the video:
Rusty seems to love the countermotion game – even though there was not a lot of motion or running needed, he was flying! And even with him being completely excited about it, he was still turning beautifully – a lovely balance of going fast AND turning tight. SUPER!
He really seemed to have no questions about committing to the barrel/jump behind you. Since that was easy for him, you can add more challenge:
As you walk past the jump and past the exit barrel, you can release him while you are still moving (rather than stop to release then move again).That might really challenge his countermotion – he might be tempted to come with you. So to help him commit even though you are moving the whole time, you can move very slowly… slooowwwww walkingggggg 😆. And if that is easy for him? Back to fast walking and eventually to jogging and running (when you have more room outside).
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!!
Tracy
Hi!
>I was focussing a bit on beginning and end of run routines… she came in on lead and at the end I picked her up after giving her “pick up” cue/put the lead back on/rewarded then moved to food was on a table.
Fantastic! She did really well!
> She is still running off during training at the Club so that’s on hiatus – I don’t want to risk losing her in the dark or her approaching an unfriendly dog.>
True, we want to keep her safe. Do you know what triggers her to run off? We can add that to the Under Pressure games.
Looking at the sequence:
She did a great job with the layering! It looks like she as heading to the 2nd layered jump on the first rep but you turned away a little too soon at :15. You supported the line with more parallel path motion on all the other reps and she had no questions. SUPER!
>My blinds were a bit late here. >
You were making sure she was staying on the line then had to hurry to get back up the line. She didn’t see the new connection in time on the first couple but then you made it super clear at :47.
I wonder what she would do if you started it as she took off for the 2nd layer jump? A big dog would not have a problem, so it will be fun to see if she can continue past the tunnel – I bet she would 🙂 Tiny dogs are trickier because they can’t see us that well with the tunnel blocking their view, so it will be interesting to see how she reads the line 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>I am trying to absorb your feedback on the low jumps with wrap: it is very difficult for me to see what you mean on the video; in real time it is just not happening. I can move the helper jump closer – what do you think of that? I find it extremely hard to give proper feedback in the moment because the criterion is just not black and white enough for me. I’m good with went over the helper jump or didn’t.>
Think of it as learning to see criteria on the running dog walk behavior – that takes a bit of practice to train the eye, then it is easy to see 🙂
What you will want to do is what the area in front of the jump to see where he puts his feet – does he get closer to the jump and do a little chip stride? That is the beginning of the organized collection we want! He did that on the last wrap rep you did on the video. And was working it out on the 2nd to last wrap rep. He didn’t do it on the others: on one rep he went straight (no reward). On the other reps, he landed long but was disorganized and his right hind slipped out towards the helper jump – that is the fishtailing you are seeing.
When he organized some collection before takeoff, his landings ere very organized!
I grabbed some pictures:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1B3k65aBFa8Z0NmM0PCBoXAv9jAPss2dWgU_CObfIjIM/edit?usp=sharing>What a surprise to have a course with no handling advice; almost like real life.
> Ha! There is the option of hints in the other document, but I do like it when people choose their own handling at this stage!
Looking at the video:
>We got the backside 2 easily >
Yes! And it was smart to hang out there so you could send him away to 3 and 4 rather than get too far ahead and stuck on the other side of the weaves.
The 3-4-5 line was hard for him! Your line of motion to head to 6 was correct. He jumped a little long over 3 which changed the 4-5 line, and we don’t want you to have to get to close to 5… so you can take a 2-hand approach on that entire line while you are moving towards 6. Think of it as 2 hands on the wheel of the sports car:
Send to 3 with both hands, to get a little bit of collection. If he is curling towards you over 4, use your outside arm to keep him out on the line. You got your outside arm involved at :55 and it really helped! You also converged towards it but we don’t want you to have to converge at all 🙂 The outside arm can work without the motion support.
If you can be moving through 6 and 7 more rather than moving to 5, you will see that bar stay up and no questions on 7 because you are continuing to move along the line.
Looking at the backsides:
>and 9 not as easily and gave up on 13 (2 out of 3 tries).>
Both 9 and 13 rely on understanding of staying on the parallel path to the backside… and we established with the handler challenges that he doesn’t really know that. He can get to the backside if you are ahead and driving to it… so rather than make you run to the backside more (which is absolutely not the answer here!), we can train more:
Train the backside distance in isolation, from the tunnel before it or the jump on the line before it. You can change the angle of the backside jump so the backside is more obvious (and front side is less obvious) to help him learn to stay on the line to it. I am perfectly happy with using an outside arm here too for that!
And if he really struggles, just use a wing: get him to tay out on the line to the backside of the wing. The bar is what has all the value, so taking the bar out temporarily can help him catch on faster. Then we add the bar back 🙂
The lovely independent weaves set up the 10-12 line really well!
Being able to get the backside at 13 more independently will make the 14-19 line very easy, setting up the ending to be easy too 🙂
>Also, didn’t have the oomph to get to a cross between 20 and 21. >
A RC at the end works great, you can do it on landing side of 21 to pick up the line to 22.
>My summary of our effort on this course: somewhat above our pay grade. >
Most of it was really straightforward for you and Casper! And your handling choices were strong! The 2 sticking points were the 3-4-5 line, and the backsides. So definitely try the 2 hands for the 3-4-5 line (brake arm at 3, opposite arm to show line to 5, brake arm to turn to 6 if needed). And he backsides we will train so you don’t have to out run him to get there.
Nice work!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! These games are all going really well, especially since they were outdoors.
Parallel path looks great! And you had plenty of lateral distance. Super! You can start further away (like back by the shed that was behind him) so he take more steps to find the jump. And you can add jogging! And if he doesn’t get distracted by the motion, add in running 🙂
Good job convincing him to sit outside – sitting on different surfaces is harder than it seems for tiny dogs!!! But he did great 🙂 And easily built to the stay. Yay!
If he is sensitive to sitting on different surfaces like wet grass or pokey grass or dirt, you can also work a stay in a stand position: I add a stay verbal to the sit position (you might already be doing this, it was hard to hear). Then when he is standing, use the stay verbal and move away, then reward pretty quickly. It is surprisingly easy to get a stand stay and it can take out any of the ‘ick’ about sitting on weird surfaces.Find my Face was super! He was like “WHY DID YOU TURN AWAY WITH MY COOKIES” and actually came to you faster than on the regular pattern game hahaha We definitely want him to think it is a fun thing to find out and this is off to a great start with that! It is a fun game to revisit. You can have a bigger party when he finds you: lots of praise then throw the next treat.
He was on fire for the rocking horses! When you were moving, he was flying. He slowed down a bit when you slowed down to do the spins, matching the decel as you stopped to reward him. The right turns were harder for him here but the left turns were fast and furious!
Yes, the spins were right (you asked if they were right on the video :)) Great job really emphasizing the connection.
One way to maintain the speed is to add more distance between the 2 barrels – that way he sees less decel and more running. And you can play with not using a hand to send him past you: sometimes that broke connection so he was not sure where to be. You can use a leg to send him but try to keep the big connection.
And you can do 2 or 3 reps then take a long break – even a “cold” June day in Florida will heat him up pretty quickly at this stage. Do you have a cool coat for him (and for the Bostons?) It is a good thing to add to his routine at this stage. I see it with the whippets this time of year too: they get hot very quickly and lose speed, even though they have a completely different nose structure than Lew 😂 So they get 2 or 3 reps, then back in the a/c as they build up heat tolerance.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
I am a big fan of the leash games, he did great! It looks like he is happy to work with the leash around – sticking his head in it looks like it is something he likes to do 🙂
Does he also tug on his leash on cue? That is something that might develop naturally and is certainly useful.The next steps are to sometimes shave the leash on as he moves to the jump or barrel games sometimes, just so it is a part of the picture and there are no surprises. And with dogs that love to work, I also add in putting the leash on as if it is the end… but then taking it off and going back to work. We don’t want the leash to indicate that work is over 🙂
He also did really well with the forward focus! He only had one small question: should he look at your hand as well as the toy? You can see him looking back and forth a bit. I think part of that was because the hand was right there… it will be a non-issue when you are further away.
When you are close, though, you can move the toy off to the side so he turns his head a little away – that way he won’t also ask if he should include looking at your hand, it will be toy-only 🙂 And same when you add a barrel or wing or jump (or tunnel :)) – it can be a bit off to the side so he definitely doesn’t include your hand in the looking.
Between the feet was harder for him but he was getting it! You’ll get even more duration if the praise is not followed by a cookie, which was causing him to look back at you. The praise can be a quiet praise and if he continues to look at the object, release to it. But you might also find that he doesn’t want to stare at it (many dogs prefer to acknowledge but don’t do a prolong stare) and that is fine too of course 🙂
Onwards to adding obstacles to this, even if it is a cone or barrel to begin with. Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
No worries about the side of 2, it still gave you a chance to work out the timing of the sends. Your rotation was a bit too early at :09 so she had questions when you faced 2 more at :43 and even better at 1:36 – those looked really good and set up the rest of the line nicely! You broken connection a little at 1:48 so she had a question.
>But i couldnt get the turn to 7>
She did really well finding the line 3-4-5 at a distance. The turn to 7 s challenging: if your motion was going straight up the line, she continued straight up the line.
You added over-rotating like a front cross at 1:57 and after, and it did get the turn but then ends up leaving you facing the wrong direction. Plus, she doesn’t really trust the rotation when you do tht – she looks at you but doesn’t really do a FC which is what the rotation is telling her: she stays on her line but turns her head. It worked here but will mess up your front crossesYou can see what I mean at 1:58 and 2:08, where she looked at you but didn’t actually come to you.
Something to try instead of the big rotation is calling her name and using 2 hands visibly to get to the turn to 6 – that way you don’t have to turn your feet at all.
And if she adds an extra jump or goes wide: Don’t stop – keep going. Get right back on track! That will help smooth things out and get more clear rounds because you are always adjusting in the moment.
After the tunnel: the middle section went well – really nice connection and motion! Your backside handling on 9 looked good
You wanted a rear cross on the last tunnel at 1:26 – she didn’t see it before entering the tunnel so she turned to her left. You can run toward the center of the tunnel entry so she sees the rear cross tunnel pressure before entering the tunnel.
And she definitely thinks “Tunnel!” is a go-forward cue: at 2:46 you didn’t turn but said the tunnel cue, and she took the jump looking for a tunnel. Good girl!
>In synch was all over the place lack of training and skills so need to work up to this.>
You can break it down and run 4 or 5 obstacle sections for now, as she builds up to the bigger courses.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>I’m glad you ask what I think and then don’t get offended when I tell you. >
It is a collaborative process, after all 🙂
>It is interesting that you didn’t get the negative vibes about “proofing” from obedience; really interesting. >
I really never trained or competed in obedience, so the proofing vibes were not from there. But I am sure that I never got interested in it because the use of shock collars and prong collars dominated the training in my area, and I was never interested in that at all.
>Perhaps I had a purer agility experience because I started, for reals, in about 2005. With my obedience experience, I wasn’t willing to take any local instruction and spent Terry’s first 3 or 4 years learning almost exclusively from on-line and seminars. >
That is a distinct possibility! I am sure many online presenters had a more successful and systematic program than the in-person stuff did.
>I had already known about. If you have a source of stretches you would like to point me to, I’d be happy to look. >
I will gather some good resources! The stuff your massage therapist said is good but also is the limit to what most people know about getting more flexibility.
>Since you advise it, I will go out and try it at 16 but I am having trouble imagining how that will help. >
It will help because it makes getting the mechanics easier – and we want the mechanics of collection on the takeoff side of the jump. If we don’t have it at 16”, we won’t have it at 20”. I personally get it at 8” with my large dogs then raise the bar. My puppy is 22” tall (or more, I stopped measuring) so it I critical I get mechanics before I ask for height.
>Won’t a lower bar reduce the all-important “bascule” of the jump? >
Controversial opinion: I am not concerned with the bascule 🙂 for many reasons. First – they are not horses 🙂 and the jumping efforts we are making for widely vary and agility dogs are all built wildly differently. So mechanics of preparing for takeoff are the most important thing, followed by mechanics of landing… and then the bascules fall into place easily.
>I know I am not keeping up with the neuroscience of the dog-training as you are but I would have thought this was simple physics (simple for physicists, not simple for me).>
Physics are always in play, of course, but each jumping effort (wrap, soft turn, slice, straight, etc) requires different mechanics to create the line. If we don’t have the mechanics, then the trajectory will not be what we want.
>Part of my issue may be that I have taken literally tens of seminars and on-line classes, including over 25 from Agility U
. My understanding of jumping is a mish-mash of all of that. > That shows that dog agility jumping really has no single specific set of ways to do it 🙂 Gazillions of approaches: no one is wrong, no one is right. If there was a right way to teach jumping that worked for everyone, then we would all be doing it and there would not be 8000 online jumping programs 🙂 Kind of like 2o2o contacts – easy methods exist that work for the vast majority of dogs, so there are not going to be a zillion online classes 🙂
There are so many different jumping efforts and so many different dog structures… sorting out the needs of the individual is more important than systematizing a jumping method.What the neuroscience tells us is that when arousal states shift higher or into overarousal, the first thing that ‘goes away’ when the brain is being bombarded with stimuli is mechanics. So things like jumping form and weave entries and running contacts deteriorate because the brain cannot process the mechanics as well. But if we can isolate the mechanics and teach them/work them in a similar state? Then we tap into state-dependent memory and we don’t lose mechanics when arousal states shifts or when there are more stimuli in the environment.
> My memory of Linda Mecklenburg’s and Silvia Trkman’s jumping is that they quickly moved to full height in order to get the bascule and prevent “running” over the jumps. >
The ‘running over jumps’ concept falls into the same fallacy basket as ‘flyball dogs won’t be able to jump in agility because they jump flat’. Just not true 🙂
And a lot of the initial stuff from what I remember was getting over the bar from a standstill (and landing with all the weight on the shoulders, ouch) so that is not the mechanics we need at all! The mechanics begin 15 feet away from the jump with the deceleration if there is a turn, or the power set of the hind if it is extension.
>Length of dogs: – point of breastbone to point of rump: Enzo 24 Casper 22 – end of the ribs to the hip: Enzo 6.5 Casper 5.5>
For dogs that are approx the same height, that is an interesting difference! I don’t look at AKC breed standards at all because, well… not helpful for sports 🙂 It can also help explain why Casper doesn’t turn as well as Enzo. In general, dogs that are longer can turn better. Shorter or square dogs don’t turn as well naturally so need more emphasis on mechanics to set up the turn. It can all even out with work on mechanics but length of dog will tell us their natural ability. I have 3 young dogs similar in height but wildly different in length. The longest one turns like a dream, very little training needed, even though he is the youngest of the 3 and the least experience. The one in the middle who is tallest but also doesn’t have as much length than the longer dog can turn but had to learn a lot about the mechanics to do it (especially to his non-dominant side). And the shortest one (in length)? Really struggles to naturally turn so we do a ton of mechanics. And my 3 small dogs are a similar study of long, medium, & short, with same results in terms of turning ability and mechanics. My guess is that Casper is like my middle length dogs who can accelerate on the flat and be super fast, and had to focus a lot on mechanics to make the collections happen before takeoff. Also notable is with the medium length dogs… letting them rip and NOT asking for the collection on soft turns produces very very fast course times! The medium length smaller dog has clocked 8yps when I let her rip and just tell her where to go. Looks wide! But sooo fast and wins if I get her around clean. So there will be spots with Casper that we don’t need to worry about how tight the turn is 🙂
>I’m very glad you like discussing all this stuff, I have no one in my agility circle who wants to dive into the weeds. Most of my near-by friends (and students) are in it for the social aspects and just don’t want their dogs to make them feel foolish.>
I mean, I too like the social stuff and prefer when my dogs don’t make me feel foolish 😂 but getting into the weeds is super fun!!
On the video:
>He clearly processed the difference between throwing the frizz (very good) and a cookie (a little good) and made a change. Sad for him, it was a change in the wrong direction.>
I really liked this session – he started off with his usual approach and then after the feedback of the cookie (‘that was fine, not great’) I think it was fantastic that he kind of said “hmmmmm how to I get the frisbee??” Taking the 2nd jump was a nice experiment with good feedback: no reward at all. Noted! Then the next rep actually had some good collection before takeoff (“how ‘bout this?”) and the last rep in that session had GREAT collection on the takeoff side (note the little stride he added in: decel to set up collection!) It is not as fluent as it will be but it was definitely on the right track (and very hard, he really had to devote some brain juice to it :))
The teeter session looked great! The next step is to maintain this in classes/trials, where there might be a history of early releases. You can dial back some of the arousal in class or at a trial because the environment provides the arousal in those locations.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
> My impression was that he really thought I was trying to trick him and that wait for his food bowl meant no food until he was released (even from me). Who knows what part of his expectations I didn’t meet in the moment, he’s definitely his own little person.>
I love that he is his own person! Back in the day when I used to play Its Yer Choice game, we would see this response to the food – it was like it was almost an aversive and the dog’s would turn their heads away (and grimace!). I don’t play those games anymore 🙂 and we can note his response to the Dirty Rotten Trick of offering kibble as a reward in a moment when the rules are all about the food bowl 😂🤣
>I do think he has a lot of reward prediction thoughts and reactions to things not following the pattern he expected them to. That’s been a super consistent trait since he first came to me.>
Yes, it is fun to watch different individuals and breeds with regards to this! Plus add in a still-developing brain, it is like having a science lab in your house LOL
The stay session went great!!! You got him into a stay without any mat needed and he was quite lovely! The between-the-feet lineup also provides a lot of clarity for him, from what I see here. And you can always bring a mat or something small (post-it note hahaha) back out if he struggles in a new environment or with harder challenges, or the Cato when introducing other concepts and you don’t want him to have to use a lot of bandwidth for the stay.
He was great about holding his stay when you added the barrel. We want to make the rhythm of the releases less predictable, though. Dogs are incredibly musical in terms of identifying rhythms and associating them with cues. You were leading out and releasing at the same rhythm each time, so he might begin associating the timing of the release with the release, rather than the actual release cues if you do them later than your usual rhythm. So this is one of the places where we actually want to be less predictable! Ways to do that are:
– Add in a moment of praise between stopping your motion in your lead out spot and the release cues (or reward marker). This can be different praise words, or even praising as you lead out. Or even counting the number of steps you take before you stop and release – when using the barrel, you were consistenly taking 2 footfalls to the side after the dismount, followed by 6 footfalls forward then the release. You had a 7 and a 5 in there, but 6 was the magic number for the most part and he might start to count: 1-2-3-4-5-6-release 🙂 So, mix it up and adding the praise in will totally help too!
>We need to revisit his focus forward cue and clarify it’s not a release to obstacle. We didn’t do a ton of that the first go ’round and haven’t revisited so he just needs to see that and then we’ll be able to add in a focus forward cue that isn’t a release to do the thing.>
Absolutely! Now is a good time for that. He was glancing at the barrel or toy a lot, which is good! If you want to make it a duration ‘stare’, you can work that concept separately from the stay so he doesn’t break the stay while learning it: hold his collar, throw the thing to look at out ahead, give the forward focus cue (hand point, verbal, or both). Then as he looks at the object, deliver long quiet praise, then cue him to get it. If he can stare at it while you are holding him, then it will be easier to get the behavior while he is also holding a stay.
You might need 6 hands to hold him and do this though – i have found that the dogs do really well (no confusion) if we hold them with the dog-side hand and throw the reward and point to it with the opposite hand. It is an easy transfer when they are in the stay and we want to use the dog-side hand to point.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Not sure why but he is eating at the grass more. I don’t think I dropped treats but maybe he thinks there is some.>
The grass eating can sometimes be a sign of GI upset, or a way of decompressing the arousal of training, or it can just be super tasty this time of year. Several of my dogs like to ‘graze’ during this time of year like a bunch of cows 🙂 He didn’t do it when he knew he was working (when you were walking away with connection) so it is probably no big deal at all.
>. I will try again and as you suggested put down a bowl or the toy to help him. Should I be using any verbal for this yet?>
You can use a wrap verbal if you like, because he would be wrapping the exit. The bowl or toy should help continue building up the commitment.
On the video: He did great! I agree, he has the decel concept really solid!
Great stay rewards mixed in! He is a really strong tugger so trading for treats will be good for your hands 🙂
Going straight dog on left went well, I think it was pretty equal to the dog-on-right reps here! I didn’t see any major differences between the two sides, even if the dog-on-left side is his harder side. You were more connected for sure! You can have your dog-side hand pointed back to him more to show even more connection, and you can also release and take off running (with your arms pumping like a sprinter and looking back at him) – that will be both a lot of run and a bit more challenging because there is a lot more motion and excitement 🙂
You can also add more excitement and speed by sending him around a wing or through a tunnel before the jump! Then you can either run forward for the straight line, or send him away at a bigger distance so he sees you standing still at the jump as he begins moving towards you. He seems ready for the higher level challenge.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Hello and welcome back to CAMP! Great to see you and the girls here!!
Looking at all of Lily’s videos:
On the first video:
Very nice distance and layering when she is on your left!
>You can see she sends better when she is on my left than on the right.>
Yes, I totally see what you mean here and even more so when you added distance on the 3rd Lily video.
You tried a couple of different things to help her on that side (more acceleration, opposite arm, out verbals) all of which are great! But I think the main thing is that shifting away on that side is hard! So we can change the reward placement to build up the value and get her looking at the line in that direction.
Based on how she did on both sides here: when she is on the line in the layering, she generally stays on it and the rest of the handling is beautiful! So you can do lots of handling when she is on your left. And when she is on your right, do more value building for the line by throwing the reward out past the first layering jump when she is on her way to it. Ideally, a lotus ball or something yummy lands halfway between the 2 jumps on the other side of the tunnel. And sometimes you can throw the reward to the landing of the 2nd layering jump. But mainly, the rewards on that side should all be out past the jumps and not near you 🙂
When she did get out on the lines, the handling went great! Super nice job getting the backside at :54 and 1:05! And excellent blinds at 1:36 & 2:03 – when you trust the commitment on that side more, you can be even further ahead and start the blind when she lands from 4.
Her commitment is stronger when she is in your left, so you can be even more laterally away from the tunnel (closer to the blind cross line) and start the blind as she lands from the previous jump.
And another super nice blind to backside at 2:26!! She is getting really good at backsides – your connection is very clear on those! You pulled away a shade early ay 2:42 but then nailed it at 2:59.
On Lily’s 2nd video:
Adding the first jump in adding more momentum into the layering which worked in your favor! She had even more speed, which got the layering even more strongly and allowed you to get up the line to the blind. Really lovely!Lily 3rd video – this is where the extra distance made it a little harder, especially dog-on-right. When she was on your left, the first rep didn’t quite have enough momentum but the rest of the reps did. The reps on your right were very hard with the added distance.
Since we know the handling is looking great for the lines after the layering, adding lots more reps with the thrown reward will help her commit even with the added distance. When you do the whole sequence, all of the rewards are near you (at the end of the sequence) so we can shift the value back out to the line by repeatedly throwing the reward there. Start with the slightly smaller distances to get the commitment going, then move that jump back a foot or two very few reps.
When she is on your left, you can sometimes throw the reward on the line for the bigger distance – but mainly on this side you can do the handling for real because it is a stronger side for her in terms of commitment to the lines.
Small handling detail on this video: on the blind at :39 (to the backside), you placed your handling line in the same spot as the blind to the front side at :14 so she thought it was the front and you had to push her back out. You can do the blind to the backside closer to the inside wing of the jump there, so she lands on the line directly to the backside. But I am loving how well she is finding the backsides!!
Looking at Rosie’s videos: this went well too!!
I see what you mean about Rosie also sending better on your left than from your right. It probably indicates that you are more comfy with them on your left too, because all 3 of you do better on that side 🙂
When Rosie gets tired, she needs the extra acceleration to get onto the line (early deceleration pulls her off the line).
>She also has this habit of making a tight circle before sending to an obstacle. When she does this she will usually go out to the obstacle.>
That little circle is so interesting, it is like she is buying time to figure it out! Like with Lily, you can throw a lot of rewards out to the line especially on the harder side. So any type of send will mean “go find the jump” and she will have value for leaving you to find the line. That will also add more speed – right now, leaving you means also leaving the reward and that is not necessarily something she wants to do. But if we shift it to leaving you meaning getting the reward, I think we will see her kick into a higher gear of speed 🙂
The handling went really well on the first video, especially the blinds!
At :44 & 1:20 & 2:09 and 1:03 on the other side, she almost veered away back to the first jump after the blind. That was because your position after the blind was blocking her line to the backside. At 1:35 you were not blocking the line and se went directly to the backside. So you can be a little further across the bar for her with the blinds and that way when she lands from the blind cross she will see the wing for the backside of the next jump.On the 2nd Rosie video:
>Rosie seemed to handle the extra distance better.>
Totally yes! She had no questions about the extra distance and honestly, I think she liked it: there was more distance from you and with you further ahead, she hit higher speeds on especially coming into the blinds. Very fun!!! You can still throw rewards out past the jumps while she is layering, especially when she is on your right, because that will really solidify the drive to the jumps.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning! Welcome to CAMP 🙂
Great job on these courses – who was the designer? They look like fun 🙂
Small dog distance skills are harder than big dog distance skills, because the smalls have to take sooooo many more strides! So when you are working Watson: make thrown rewards your priority. He gets near jumps on the big lines but doesn’t always take them – so throwing a reward (rather than delivering from your hand or near you) will make a massive difference. I use tennis balls a lot for that: easy to carry, easy to throw, TONS of fun for the dog 🙂
Also, run with big connection from your eyeballs to his eyeballs 🙂 Deliver all verbals to his cute face, as you are running. And… don’t use your arms much at all to show the line.
The reason I suggest taking your arms out of it is because pointing forward to the line changes the line of your shoulders and feet, so he is turning off the line.
You can see this at :46 – :59, where you wanted him carry on and take the jump. But pointing forward actually turns your shoulder and feet to the other jump, which is why he kept going to it.But when you had more connection and used the outside arm at 1:00 – 1:03, he found the line brilliantly.
The outside arm at :45 also worked like a charm!The outside arm is super effective because it turns your shoulders to the line and also keeps your feet on the line, plus the dogs read it naturally without needing training.
And the closing of the course was almost all connection (you did raise your arm but he was already on the line) and he found the lines brilliantly!
The reason I mention it is so when you tackle the distance challenges, you do it all with connection and thrown rewards.
I think you brought out of high value thrown reward for Levy about halfway through and he really kicked things up to a new gear of speed! FUN!!! He is also doing really well on the lines!! After the first tunnel, the RC on the next jump makes it hard to get the jump after it (:18) so it is a good spot for an opposite arm for Levy – that opposite arm will point your shoulders directly to the jump and he will go take it.
Great job here! I am looking forward to seeing the handling challenges!
Tracy
Good morning!
>2. Expect them to figure it out (I know some very fast dogs who have figured out how to run on almost any surface but I think it was inherent, not taught). This strategy is a fail with both dogs.>
I think all dogs figure out how to manage their mechanics on different surfaces… and most of the dogs on synthetic surfaces are running with variations of an unnatural gait, depending on the lines and distances between obstacles (I spend a lot of time obsessing on videos :))
So they all figure something out, but most often it is not necessarily something we want so helping them out with something on their feet can be effective. And if they trust their feet (specifically, their brakes!) then they will have an easier time adjusting and turning.
>You must have had some sad experiences with proofing to put in a sentence like: “It is really important to understand that this is NOT proofing, and we are NOT trying to set the dog up for failure or punish the dog.”>
This comes from agility experiences, not obedience (I have zero background in obedience). But yes – agility people do approach it like that but with nicer wording 😂 The agility world is happy to use punishment without calling it punishment, or set up training ‘gotcha’ moments rather than find ways to very gradually add in challenges. Thankfully, though, the agility world is embracing the science behind learning so hopefully the older approaches continue to fade away. 🤞
>everything needs to be taught twice. Once with cookies in a calm environment (for example, teaching puppy to sit) and again when the dog is high as a kite (which we achieved with wild tug play).>
Based on what we know about the neurobiology… this is not entirely true. It is fascinating stuff! And Denise has probably revised this as well because she does seem to stay really up-to-date on what the science tells us. And the newer studies are changing what we thought we understood even a year ago.
>I’m not sure why I am feeling so protective of obedience but it does sound like you weren’t exposed to the best of obedience training.>
My perspective comes entirely from agility, not obedience. But I do think the word ‘proofing’ has been poisoned in dog training in general and leans into punishment.
The Under Pressure games went well!
>Looking at the video, I see that Casper is not a fan of circling the tunnel. >
Most of the dogs think it is a bit odd and that is part of how we change the arousal state! He did well with it and good handling is not required for the multiple tunnels 🙂
>The helper jump is about 8 feet away and he never got near it. On the second one (check = left), I added some wild tug play to try and jack him up. It worked a bit, as the second wrap was looser than the first.>
He was really good about not taking the helper jump! He did look at it on the first higher arousal rep but continued to turn rather than go straight. Yay! It shows an understanding of the wrap cues as being come back around the jump.
What I would like to see more of is collection on the takeoff side of the jump. He is landing then turning for the most part, with his hind end fishtailing out a bit.
You’ll get more successful collection mechanics teaching him this on a lower bar – 16” or even 12”. Right now, he is processing the cues to turn but not the mechanics of collecting before takeoff. So first step is to baseline it on the send from the tunnel exit – he collected better when you rotated earlier at :20 and :42 but I would like to teach him to turn without as much handling from you: the send and the verbal should be the cues, we don’t want to have to use as much rotation or getting in his face when you are ahead of him.
This will also help your soft turns too! So revisit this game on a lower bar and you can also have a reward hierarchy: if you see the crunch of collection before takeoff, the big reward can come out: frisbee, perhaps? If it is a good turn without as much collection before takeoff (like he did here), a lower value reward can come out. If he takes the 2nd jump? No reward.
For the teeter:
>I wasn’t expecting him to be successful, since he makes the error in training and class, especially as I run by. >
In class, is there a toy placed out on the line? He might think the toy on the line is a context cue to stop til released. But no toy on the line means the stop is a bit optional.
The added arousal did show up here as he had to really balance and rock his weight back – he slid into position! But he held it til released. Good boy!
One thing to be watchful of is when you relate as you run by. Dogs are wizards about predicting our behavior – if you release on your 3rd footfall past the stop on the bottom of the teeter like you did here on both reps, he will count to 3 and release. We humans love to do patterns in rhythms of 3! Or we inadvertently release simultaneously with being at a certain distance from the next jump, or when we raise our arm… Dang smart dogs LOL!!
>I could reverse the order and maybe do tunnel circle, jump circle to teeter with the teeter facing the tunnel.>
Yes, that is a fun variation! And count your footfalls – go for 5 steps and see what happens. He might release on step 3… be prepared for it! Just have a laugh because it might be what he thinks the release is and try again (no reward). If he fails the 2nd time – move to walking past the end for 4or 5 steps.
>Casper has those long legs and no hair which make him look tall. >
It must be the legs! It produces a higher center of gravity which creates different movement and turning. Also, who is longer? Length from the end of the ribs to the hips also creates very different movement.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>We really haven’t done much start line stuff – I was kind of worried about ruining his stays forever – but I’m feeling like he’s more ready now. >
Totally! And I have full faith in your training skills. You are not going to ruin his stays! And of course the platform can come out in crazy hard environments if needed. It is all about good feelings and getting happy success.
>I’ll also get to leash and between legs set up like I’ll be doing in actual training/trialing now that I think he’s having some good success.>
Adding that plus adding obstacles tips the scales into the stays being harder, so the stay itself can be easier (shorter duration) to be sure he has a high level of success.
>This morning I asked him to sit and wait as I started to put the bowl down and tried to hand him a few kibbles to reinforce as that was happening. He kind of partially closed his eyes and turned his head away, refusing to take the kibble, like it was some kind of a dastardly trick. >
“MOTHER WHY DO YOU PUNISH ME BY MAKING ME EAT FOOD WHILE I AM WORKING?!?!?” Hahahahaha So funny! I love stories like this.
That is definitely really interesting behavior! Was the kibble you tried to punish him with oops I mean hand to him the same stuff that was in the bowl? It might give us an insight into reinforcement and expectations (reward prediction errors). The most recent studies talk about the brain constantly updating expectations, similar to how AI is constantly updating how it works. Fascinating stuff! I wish my brain would update as fast as puppy brains do, though haha
There is a lot of bandwidth devoted to stays while breakfast is being doled out – and the expectation might be that the breakfast bowl is the reward. It is both the work and the reward, maybe similar to how these dogs view stock.
And being asked to eat kibble from your hand was an unexpected thing (in a non-happy-making-way) so it was almost aversive in that moment when all expectations were set on the breakfast bowl.
His response doesn’t surprise me, based on the nice combination of Border Collie (and BC ancestors) plus feral dogs in Australia (seriously, Dingo!) used to create Koolies. BCs are not big eaters during work, and less ‘domesticated’ (hello, dingo!) breeds are also not big eaters.
This is probably because of how their nervous system works when they are in work mode (which might be similar to survival mode for the more feral breeds). I saw it with my first BC-Croatian mix who, as a young dog, would also look like I beat him with a stick when I offered a food reward from my hand (or when he was in a stay in front of a jump and I tried to pet him LOL!). Or he would move his head away to look around the offered treat and keep looking at the work, as if the offered treat was a form of distraction for the focus forward skill 😂 And these were GOOD treats like cheese or meat!
I have a video somewhere of a shaping session that I thought was FANTASTIC – he offered a behavior, he got a treat, then I would break it off and play tug. As I was patting myself on the back for a job well done, I turned off the camera then turned around to see he had spit out every.single.cookie and I didn’t even notice hahahahaha Oops!
But, by making eating a part of the ‘work’, they learn that eating is good AND reinforcing even in those work moments, as you can already see with Vibe everywhere else in his life (he is a good eater!) And there is tremendous benefit for the nervous system, arousal regulation, gut biome, and all of it because everything is related.
>I am in so much trouble with this kid.>
Ha! Not at all! He is super cool (Kool!) and will present some fun training questions and challenges, but fun times are ahead for sure!
Tracy
